I mean, if they need training data for ragdoll simulation, there's already Carmageddon series. They can connect FSD to a PC and get enough training data in no time.
Not less gruesome*, but way less dangerous for schoolchildren.
*: They should download the patch to undo the zombie conversion, but Grok can do it in a pinch.
Tesla/Musk has stated many times that FSD will follow common practice rather than follow the letter of the law. Over 90% of Americans speed in school zones, so FSD is presumably programmed to also do so.
As a normal human citizen, speeding in a school zone carries a risk of a significant ticket, with repeat offenses adding points until my license is suspended.
What consequences does Elon Musk face when his autonomous cars do the same?
Same in Oxnard, they put a school zone on a divided ave. No one slows down. And there's a bus stop on either side so if everyone obeyed the "when children present" it would be a huge bottleneck. Even cops fly through it.
There was a commenter on a similar article a few months ago arguing that speed limits being excessively low is just for trapping drivers and there's no reason for there to ever be speed limits below 30mph.
That's the kind of person I expect who speeds in a school zone.
The city can either put up a sign, and then have an extremely expensive officer watch over that sign 24/7, or they can put in a little bit more work up-front that sets up proper traffic calming procedures, and then never need the officer.
Signs are low cap-ex but high op-ex technique that harms overall safety and causes thousands of deaths per year.
It will be approved it seems, but there will be a condition that you cannot speed more than 10% of above the limit. Which still for me is hard to understand why you then don’t just raise the limit if you think that going 10% above the law is fine?
False. FSD Supervised is available in Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark, Czech Republic, Croatia, Slovenia, Lithuania, and Estonia.
Tesla is also in the process of a deal with German regulators to get it approved by changing the name to TAD (Tesla Assisted Driving). And when Germany approves, the rest of Europe will likely quickly follow.
Tens of thousands dead in traffic due to the “common practice” of driving unsafely. We have the opportunity here to make the roads safe but apparently mr musk doesn’t see the need.
I hope the Nordics prevail and the Europeans don’t follow his bullshit.
Not that the speeding is justified, but I would still bet on the computer continuously processing multiple video feeds reacting and stopping quicker than a human in almost all incidents.
True, but gently slowing down on a residential street near a school feels unlikely to lead to other drivers attempting high speed tailgating, undertaking or other aggressive manoeuvres that might result from, say, hogging the overtaking lane without actually overtaking because you're sticking to the speed limit, even before the obvious downsides of speeding near schools are considered...
(Also, the second case is something a car manufacturer should probably be resolving more by not hogging the overtaking lane than defaulting to going 20mph over the limit for extended periods because everybody else does)
Think about all the drunk drivers. All the exhausted drivers. Those on their phone. Those in an emotional state that is overwhelming. All the hundreds and hundreds of reasons people do a bad job of driving.
Being better than off of those is not hard, and the data shows Waymo are already there.
My FSD 14.3 car definitely does NOT respect school zones. Maybe I’m weird, but whether or not I have the car in “Hurry” mode, I expect a hard cutoff at speed limit for a school zone of myself or anything acting on my behalf. I could understand the semantics around “Mad Max” not respecting the signage, but still. Bro. Slow down in a school zone.
Meanwhile I have a five year old Audi that not just recognizes school zones but can also tell (depending on the alert mechanism) when they're in use - flashing lights on the School Zone sign will cause the yellow "SCHOOL" bar that appears above the speed limit to also flash.
Ugh, there are few things worse than vehicle UIs that flash to draw your attention to the alert when the alert is about something you need to be paying attention to on the road. Such UIs should be illegal.
I mean my car has a HUD, so... (but yes, it also appears in the main cluster, which in my case is all digital). That being said, I do agree. But even in automotive UI/UX, I think there's probably significantly more low-hanging fruit.
Where I live, there are no school zones, but instead playground zones that are in effect from 7:30am to 9:00pm. Now, I might go 60 km/h in a 50 zone depending on the road, but I will always go exactly the limit in playground zones (30 km/h). The fine for speeding in those is so much worse.
It would not exceed the speed limit. And that did not go well. There are some single-lane roads I drive on that are deserted, but have a few 25/30 zones. People ride your ss if you go 25 or 30. late at night, that turns into road rage, people want to get home.
I found there was a setting for +<n> over speed limit and I turned it up and things got better. I believe later I was in another loaner and they had added a "go with the flow of traffic" setting (I don't recall the name). That actually went the speed of prevailing traffic and I was more comfortable being driven around.
There are actually lots of studies that show that using "the 85th percentile rule" to set the speed limits gets maximum compliance and much* safer roads.
The further you set the speed limit from these speeds, the more speed variance you get and the variance is what causes accidents.
also, there is a psychological component too - I think driving ~5 mph over the speed limit is safer than driving the speed limit or 10 mph over.
people don't like those answers, but they work. Even murderers drive on the right/correct side of the road and drive with the flow of traffic.
I mean, they still have not figured out school bus stop signs after, what, 6 years of furious development? They consider that fit for commercial deployment even after it hit that kid coming out from a school bus with the stop sign extended (SGO incident number 13781-5100) after being made aware of the safety defect.
Why would they feel the need to handle garden variety illegal behavior like school speed limits?
I wish it switch to (or at least behave like) "Sloth" in any <30mph zone. Sometimes I forget to switch as I'm driven through a neighborhood and it's not friendly to anyone walking their dog.
I have heard of small towns that generated income by running speed traps. There was a notorious one near where I am from where the speed limit changed like a dozen times seemingly randomly over the course of a couple miles. Maybe someday we will see some enterprising sheriff set up some trap for Tesla robotaxis and fund their local government by fining Elon. They can beta test it by sticking a cop at the nearest school right now!
Speed trap towns (and all manner of other local government predation upon the populace) work because the harm is spread thinly among the public. You pull that shit on a megacorp and their legal team will show up in court and mop the floor with you.
I've been extremely pleased with Waymo's adherence to the smallest footnotes of law. Several weeks ago, I was just leaving church, and the road outside is a 7-lane stroad. There was light traffic, and Waymo (Jaguar I-PACE) was accelerating to the 45mph limit, when suddenly it slowed, pulled over, and stopped on the shoulder. Mystified, I looked around to see what had caused this, and I noticed that a school bus, stopped with lights flashing, and disembarking young children, was directly opposite us (no concrete island) and the Waymo Driver was the only vehicle that obeyed the law.
It was not much later when a fire engine or two, at exactly the same point on exactly the same stroad, came screaming towards us with lights and sirens. Again, nobody else in traffic cared. The Waymo Driver immediately, safely, pulled over to the side, and stayed there until the first responders had passed.
There've been a lot of incidents where the Waymo Driver simply does the right thing. I'm so grateful for this. Not even I know the traffic laws well enough to drive like this. It's a modern miracle, and a dream come true. No taxi driver, no immigrant rideshare, comes close!
It's the dude from Haiti who can't put two words together for a coherent English sentence. It's the dude from Somalia who doesn't have the common sense to keep his foot on the brake while the doors are open. It's the Mexican dude, claiming to speaka no English: when you request that he shut off the radio because of the offensive lyrics, he reports you, the rider, to the platform for rude/abusive language.
You know how the administration has been going after trucker schools and CDL truckers who also can't understand any English? The licensed truckers who couldn't graduate from a Quality Learing Center in Minnesota? All those fired and underqualified "truckers" are going to fall back on rideshare platforms, such as Lyft and Uber, because--get this--they don't even require drivers to speak English at all.
I've had taxi drivers try to manipulate the rider's touchscreen (mounted to the headrest of the passenger side front seat) while they were driving the car in motion. I've had drivers who tried to pump out personal information from me. I had an NEMT driver who knocked on my door, and halfway through the trip to the correct clinic, she claimed that she had picked up the wrong person. I've had taxi drivers who sabotaged the card-acceptor and insisted on cash payments. Certainly, we've all had taxi drivers who "got lost" or drove the wrong way "accidentally" to run up the meter.
The Waymo Driver doesn't pull any of that shit, and it 100% obeys laws. Now which are you going to choose?
52 comments
[ 0.16 ms ] story [ 34.3 ms ] threadI mean, if they need training data for ragdoll simulation, there's already Carmageddon series. They can connect FSD to a PC and get enough training data in no time.
Not less gruesome*, but way less dangerous for schoolchildren.
*: They should download the patch to undo the zombie conversion, but Grok can do it in a pinch.
https://rosap.ntl.bts.gov/view/dot/27029
What consequences does Elon Musk face when his autonomous cars do the same?
How much is that likely to bias the dataset?
That's the kind of person I expect who speeds in a school zone.
Signs are low cap-ex but high op-ex technique that harms overall safety and causes thousands of deaths per year.
Marques Brownlee
Tesla is also in the process of a deal with German regulators to get it approved by changing the name to TAD (Tesla Assisted Driving). And when Germany approves, the rest of Europe will likely quickly follow.
I hope the Nordics prevail and the Europeans don’t follow his bullshit.
(Also, the second case is something a car manufacturer should probably be resolving more by not hogging the overtaking lane than defaulting to going 20mph over the limit for extended periods because everybody else does)
Being better than off of those is not hard, and the data shows Waymo are already there.
Stop using dangerous hw features.
I enabled FSD in a loaner years ago (12.x)
It would not exceed the speed limit. And that did not go well. There are some single-lane roads I drive on that are deserted, but have a few 25/30 zones. People ride your ss if you go 25 or 30. late at night, that turns into road rage, people want to get home.
I found there was a setting for +<n> over speed limit and I turned it up and things got better. I believe later I was in another loaner and they had added a "go with the flow of traffic" setting (I don't recall the name). That actually went the speed of prevailing traffic and I was more comfortable being driven around.
There are actually lots of studies that show that using "the 85th percentile rule" to set the speed limits gets maximum compliance and much* safer roads.
The further you set the speed limit from these speeds, the more speed variance you get and the variance is what causes accidents.
also, there is a psychological component too - I think driving ~5 mph over the speed limit is safer than driving the speed limit or 10 mph over.
people don't like those answers, but they work. Even murderers drive on the right/correct side of the road and drive with the flow of traffic.
Why would they feel the need to handle garden variety illegal behavior like school speed limits?
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/inv/2026/INOA-DP26010-19159.pdf
Did the author even read the petition?
It was not much later when a fire engine or two, at exactly the same point on exactly the same stroad, came screaming towards us with lights and sirens. Again, nobody else in traffic cared. The Waymo Driver immediately, safely, pulled over to the side, and stayed there until the first responders had passed.
There've been a lot of incidents where the Waymo Driver simply does the right thing. I'm so grateful for this. Not even I know the traffic laws well enough to drive like this. It's a modern miracle, and a dream come true. No taxi driver, no immigrant rideshare, comes close!
You know how the administration has been going after trucker schools and CDL truckers who also can't understand any English? The licensed truckers who couldn't graduate from a Quality Learing Center in Minnesota? All those fired and underqualified "truckers" are going to fall back on rideshare platforms, such as Lyft and Uber, because--get this--they don't even require drivers to speak English at all.
I've had taxi drivers try to manipulate the rider's touchscreen (mounted to the headrest of the passenger side front seat) while they were driving the car in motion. I've had drivers who tried to pump out personal information from me. I had an NEMT driver who knocked on my door, and halfway through the trip to the correct clinic, she claimed that she had picked up the wrong person. I've had taxi drivers who sabotaged the card-acceptor and insisted on cash payments. Certainly, we've all had taxi drivers who "got lost" or drove the wrong way "accidentally" to run up the meter.
The Waymo Driver doesn't pull any of that shit, and it 100% obeys laws. Now which are you going to choose?
fuck off