and when the world's richest country, that built the very liberal democratic order of The West, turns around and tells all of its friends, "you've been ripping us off!"
Funny that the truth is the opposite. We have a comically massive trade deficit. But we're not actually friends; you just want some of that money. The "friendship" is that we rip off your countries, your elites sell your countries away piece by piece, and then they send their spoiled children to the US to get on the other side of the trade, too.
The US doesn't owe immigrants any more than they owe the people who don't have the means or desire to bail on their own countries. In fact, the emigrants have usually already gotten their share. It's the people left at home who need the help (or need the US to stop "helping.")
> The U.S. remains the most desired destination for people who would like to leave their own countries permanently, but Gallup's latest data show it is less attractive than it once was
If you look at the charts, it seems that if the US is a shithole, then Canada is twice the shit hole, and France and Germany are twice that.
In fact, it doesn’t appear that there are any non-shitholes using this metric.
I think the US should facilitate immigration by probably expanding the H1B 10x and reducing the period for a green card and also overturn Euclid v Amber and NEPA (with state level CEQA style to follow) but the reality is that even an immigration-resistant US administration is far more popular than any other country as a destination; and that’s probably simply due to the fact that it’s the one Western economy that is still dynamic despite everything.
I don't think the OP is saying that the US is a shit-hole today. The US still has a lot of people who want to move there. By their definition, it's not a shit-hole yet. They're saying that US is going in the direction of becoming a shit-hole.
You could sell that as a red hat to orange guy fans. You can have it made in China with a Sold in USA sticker and charge 2x. They’ll never notice the irony.
You don't even really need to have the military policing the capital and national police force shooting people in the streets. A significant economic downturn is enough to reduce immigration legal and otherwise.
From the graphs, it seems that knowledge of our non-dairy pavement is filtering through to other countries. But a longer term graph would be nice; I'd like to see how the indicator reacted over more economic cycles, but I know some visa categories that had been oversubscribed on opening day for years started staying open for most of the year when the mortgage crisis hit, and I'd love to see data from previous downturns, too.
Shows a lot what Europe thinks of the US. I'm surprised though that people from South Asia who would like to move permanently to another country also have a low vote for the US.
I'm a "they", and no we don't all want to be in the USA.
In fact, many of us are exactly as hubristic about our nations' popularity as you seem to be about the popularity of the US.
Before I left the UK (for Germany), I encountered people who seemed absolutely convinced that all 8 billion humans would move to the small, moist, sheep-filled rock if not for even stronger enforcement of immigration policies.
The US may be physically larger than the UK, but no, the world doesn't want to move to you. We don't want to regularly share the road with what are, by our standards, monster trucks; nor do we want the 2nd; nor strip malls; nor the nuclear arsenal. Many of us have our own alternatives to Mount Rushmore, to the Statue of Liberty, etc., and don't really care about yours.
Quite a lot don't care for the language as spoken and written in the USA, and for a long time that has even included British people, "two nations divided by a common language".
Anglophone and still capable economy with pretty strong mobility for knowledge workers. It’s a no-brainer. No other place offers this. China is more dynamic an economy but you’ll be pretty second-class there as a S. Asian based on the experiences of my friends who work there.
The European Union desire to migrate to the US went from 7% to 6%. The article mentions two countries were ranked higher:
> Within the European Union, Spain, at 11%, and Switzerland, at 8%, rank ahead of the U.S., at 6%.
So I think this really shows that EU members don’t have a lot of desire to migrate anywhere. The drop from 7% to 6% is inline with the global decrease in migration desire. I don’t think there’s as much to read into this about sentiment change toward the US.
And in other regions the desire to migrate to the US went down a lot more than in Europe. So this is not about what Europeans think about the US at all.
Although recent US international politics did stain the US image in Europe substantually. Just the most recent betrayal against Ukraine is a good example of why.
Gallup does this survey regularly, and I think perhaps the most interesting thing on the chart is how few people in south and east asia (around 10%) want to leave even if they had the opportunity to do so. I think that says something about the psychology of people who do leave their countries.
It’s also possible that life in those countries used to be worse a decade or two back, so people left to seek opportunities elsewhere. And it’s possible that now life in some of those countries is good enough and provides good opportunities that there are not as many reasons to leave.
Plus, it’s objectively harder to get a work visa to the US now.
I'm surprised that "Northern America" was only 4% in 2024. It feels like a huge percentage of Canadians used to move to America. Maybe everybody who wanted to move already has?
All of the Canadians that I know that moved to the US have moved back. I'm sure there are still plenty that live there but in my circle that's pretty much over.
The irony is that restrictive immigration policies designed to keep out "low quality" immigrants are only going to stop the flow of skilled ones who have better options at home or elsewhere. People who are desperate will continue to immigrate no matter what.
Skilled immigrants are so often loyal to immigrants as a class, or to other people from their specific foreign religious or ethnic group, that keeping them out of the country even though they have high value on paper is still worthwhile so that they don't have the opportunity to advocate for immigration policies that are more friendly to further low-quality immigrants.
> Part of the decline is attributable to a global drop in desire to migrate at all.
That's not what the article suggests at all.
The drop is calculated only from those who want to move.
Yes, it's still #1, but the drop that isn't a result of people not wanting to move. Instead, people that want to move are picking the US as the destination a lot less.
That subheadline is more misleading than the actual headline.
The average worldwide is down but that downward trend is largely due to the US. Canada and Japan are up and most other countries are about the same. UK is the only other own with a notable downward trend
The decline seems to be much sharper for the US than other countries. Given the way that the current government has been arbitrarily revoking student visas, making it more difficult to get work visas, blocking green card application, etc., it seems reasonable that fewer people would want to immigrate to the US.
The current admin definitely wants to look tough on immigration.
Opinions among actual Americans vary. Some blue states even issue driver licenses to unauthorized immigrants on the basis that it's better for them to pass the driving test than to drive without taking the test.
The ICE stuff is extremely unpopular. Most of the people who voted for it did not understand they were doing so. If "the US" is the people, then no, they mostly do not want this. If "the US" is Trump, then yes, it is.
This is also the most important political question in the US right now. Are the people still sovereign?
"The ICE stuff" means what ICE is actually doing, not some abstract, lawful, policy that you could imagine instead. This is precisely the point. Many people who voted for Trump did not understand what they were going to get.
Actual support for Trump's immigration policy and ICE is much lower than you suggest.
Why would anyone be surprised Republicans approve? They voted for it, it was like the main thing they wanted... But despite voting for it still 21% disapprove.
It's what a huge proportion of the US population wants, yes. And many of the people who are in the US and who are counted in the number of people in the US are themselves immigrants or closely socially connected to recent immigrants - one of the justifications for blanket immigration restrictionism is precisely that once an immigrant is physically in the country, they start affecting the democratic political process that decides what policies will be, including further immigration policy.
Thinks they want (where "think" is doing some massive heavy lifting because it's simply factual that wide swaths of voters have demonstrably exercised very little "thinking".)
I mean, there is a big grey area between immigrants here who are:
undocumented and here temporarily (most people oppose this),
undocumented and here permanently (the left is split on this, the right is mostly against it),
documented and here temporarily (most people are fine with this, especially tourists),
documented and here temporarily with an option to become permanently (many oppose this because it's impacting employment, especially with H-1B abuse),
documented and here permanently with no intention of becoming citizens (many people on the right don't like this for assimilation reasons),
documented and here permanently an a path to citizenship (most people support this except the extreme right),
former immigrants who are now citizens (nearly everyone supports these people).
The problem is that all of this is put under a single umbrella called "immigration," but it includes so many sub-issue like rule of law and assimilation preferences that you can't have a serious debate on it.
The other thing making it difficult to have a serious debate about is that one portion of the population keeps getting asked to moderate their positions on immigration (in all its facets) while there is little to no similar pressure on the opposing group. To put it another way: why should I move towards the center (from my "left" position) when I see the right continue to push immigration policy to the extremes?
I wouldn't recommend visiting the U.S. right now. There isn't the concept of fairness or due process. You don't have rights here. It is now extremely important to be a U.S. citizen. Everyone else is at the mercy of the Trump administration.
> Especially the toxic manosphere culture at the moment.
The experience of living/traveling in the US is very different from what can be seen on social medias and forums. At least in big cities in blue states.
> U.S. still top destination as desire to migrate falls worldwide
> But despite these changes, many people worldwide — an estimated 900 million — would like to move, including about 134 million who would prefer to move to the U.S.
I haven't been rejected to any. I'm just monitoring changing requirements and sentiment in other countries, primarily Asia and parts of Europe. If you have suggestions for countries I'm open to them.
How can people today even think they can "move to the U.S. permanently"? U.S. is even considering stripping citizenship from its own citizens. It's very impermanent.
"1 billion Americans" is different than "filling America with 1 billion people." Decades from now, people like Yglesias will be living in the wreckage of their idealistic beliefs about nationhood and they'll be like "but true mass immigration has never been tried."
It’s always good when we all don’t want the same things. I expect to see a lot more doom and gloom headlines of the midterm elections go as predicted, but anticipate quality of life increasing for us non billionaires as well.
1/4 of my building complex in Miami is Brazilian, the rest is from other LatAm countries and Russians and Ukrainians. Barely any natives. Tower(s) of Babel. I guess our favelas are a bit safer... yet.
Having dealt with the us immigration system, and even in an easy case, it’s not an easy thing to do.
Hopefully people get more informed on how hard it is to apply and don’t waste their lives on it, as a lot of them won’t get legal residency, or it might take several long years.
And this applies in general to most countries, specialized educated professionals are wanted, not poor people.
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[ 0.21 ms ] story [ 39.4 ms ] threadYou fire ahead and take my spot.
That used to be a joke about the Soviet Union. Perhaps before your time.
and when the world's richest country, that built the very liberal democratic order of The West, turns around and tells all of its friends, "you've been ripping us off!"
Funny that the truth is the opposite. We have a comically massive trade deficit. But we're not actually friends; you just want some of that money. The "friendship" is that we rip off your countries, your elites sell your countries away piece by piece, and then they send their spoiled children to the US to get on the other side of the trade, too.
The US doesn't owe immigrants any more than they owe the people who don't have the means or desire to bail on their own countries. In fact, the emigrants have usually already gotten their share. It's the people left at home who need the help (or need the US to stop "helping.")
If you look at the charts, it seems that if the US is a shithole, then Canada is twice the shit hole, and France and Germany are twice that.
In fact, it doesn’t appear that there are any non-shitholes using this metric.
I think the US should facilitate immigration by probably expanding the H1B 10x and reducing the period for a green card and also overturn Euclid v Amber and NEPA (with state level CEQA style to follow) but the reality is that even an immigration-resistant US administration is far more popular than any other country as a destination; and that’s probably simply due to the fact that it’s the one Western economy that is still dynamic despite everything.
From the graphs, it seems that knowledge of our non-dairy pavement is filtering through to other countries. But a longer term graph would be nice; I'd like to see how the indicator reacted over more economic cycles, but I know some visa categories that had been oversubscribed on opening day for years started staying open for most of the year when the mortgage crisis hit, and I'd love to see data from previous downturns, too.
In fact, many of us are exactly as hubristic about our nations' popularity as you seem to be about the popularity of the US.
Before I left the UK (for Germany), I encountered people who seemed absolutely convinced that all 8 billion humans would move to the small, moist, sheep-filled rock if not for even stronger enforcement of immigration policies.
The US may be physically larger than the UK, but no, the world doesn't want to move to you. We don't want to regularly share the road with what are, by our standards, monster trucks; nor do we want the 2nd; nor strip malls; nor the nuclear arsenal. Many of us have our own alternatives to Mount Rushmore, to the Statue of Liberty, etc., and don't really care about yours.
Quite a lot don't care for the language as spoken and written in the USA, and for a long time that has even included British people, "two nations divided by a common language".
> In 2025, 15% of adults worldwide who say they would like to move permanently to another country name the U.S. as their preferred destination
and eyeballing the graphs, only about 10% of residents of Asian countries have any desire to move at all.
> Within the European Union, Spain, at 11%, and Switzerland, at 8%, rank ahead of the U.S., at 6%.
So I think this really shows that EU members don’t have a lot of desire to migrate anywhere. The drop from 7% to 6% is inline with the global decrease in migration desire. I don’t think there’s as much to read into this about sentiment change toward the US.
Although recent US international politics did stain the US image in Europe substantually. Just the most recent betrayal against Ukraine is a good example of why.
Plus, it’s objectively harder to get a work visa to the US now.
> U.S. still top destination as desire to migrate falls worldwide
So the US is still the top destination by a wide margin. Part of the decline is attributable to a global drop in desire to migrate at all.
Recent politics is undoubtedly part of it, but if you assumed the US had fallen behind other countries you should probably read the article.
That's not what the article suggests at all.
The drop is calculated only from those who want to move.
Yes, it's still #1, but the drop that isn't a result of people not wanting to move. Instead, people that want to move are picking the US as the destination a lot less.
A drop in the desire to emigrate might have had a higher impact on groups who would have preferred the US, for example.
Second, if you're right, that's worse.
The average worldwide is down but that downward trend is largely due to the US. Canada and Japan are up and most other countries are about the same. UK is the only other own with a notable downward trend
Opinions among actual Americans vary. Some blue states even issue driver licenses to unauthorized immigrants on the basis that it's better for them to pass the driving test than to drive without taking the test.
This is also the most important political question in the US right now. Are the people still sovereign?
"Deporting all immigrants who are here illegally" was polling at 55% approve/45% disapprove as recently as July.
Actual support for Trump's immigration policy and ICE is much lower than you suggest.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-poll-majority-says...
You'd be surprised to learn that ICE is quite popular. For example 73% of Republicans approve of the job ICE is doing --- see page 14 of this NPR/PBS/Marist poll: https://maristpoll.marist.edu/wp-content/uploads/2026/02/NPR...
Thinks they want (where "think" is doing some massive heavy lifting because it's simply factual that wide swaths of voters have demonstrably exercised very little "thinking".)
https://www.project2025.observer/
They want a Autocratic Theocracy AKA God's Chosen One-ocracy (and take a wild guess at which demographic gets to decide who the chosen one is...)
undocumented and here temporarily (most people oppose this),
undocumented and here permanently (the left is split on this, the right is mostly against it),
documented and here temporarily (most people are fine with this, especially tourists),
documented and here temporarily with an option to become permanently (many oppose this because it's impacting employment, especially with H-1B abuse),
documented and here permanently with no intention of becoming citizens (many people on the right don't like this for assimilation reasons),
documented and here permanently an a path to citizenship (most people support this except the extreme right),
former immigrants who are now citizens (nearly everyone supports these people).
The problem is that all of this is put under a single umbrella called "immigration," but it includes so many sub-issue like rule of law and assimilation preferences that you can't have a serious debate on it.
While this administration is in place I don't even want to visit, even for work purposes I refuse.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/03/ice-german-t...
The Trump administration is perfectly happy to violate the rights of American citizens too. Nobody is safe right now.
The experience of living/traveling in the US is very different from what can be seen on social medias and forums. At least in big cities in blue states.
> But despite these changes, many people worldwide — an estimated 900 million — would like to move, including about 134 million who would prefer to move to the U.S.
Important caveats.
I remember when I went to Australia, I could stay a year but American backpackers only 6 months because that's what Australians got in the US.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/article/canada-adding-new-ex...
imaging what's going down just before/during the Olympics which I am 99% certain will be boycotted by then
they got their wish.
Hopefully people get more informed on how hard it is to apply and don’t waste their lives on it, as a lot of them won’t get legal residency, or it might take several long years.
And this applies in general to most countries, specialized educated professionals are wanted, not poor people.