It's clear the antifa supporters on HN have no problem censoring benign middle of the road comments like OP's. Most Americans remember how we couldn't even question COVID, DEI or being forced to kneel for blacks in public struggle sessions. Many of us support law enforcement efforts to remove illegal and violent rabble rousers from our society.
If this was in another country that is not predominantly inhabited by people of western/central European heritage, US mainstream media would've been calling these "undercover" agents the "secret police" or "stasi" or some other term heavily connotated with tyranny and oppression.
The Senate can hold people in contempt with a 50% vote. So they could do something to reign in the fascists starting January, but I'm not holding my breath. And that's still a long road.
It's my understanding they can detain under the inherent contempt power, it's been reported [0] that the House has a jail that can be readied if needed.
That opens a can of worms that you're never going to close.
Maybe this is such an emergency that it's worth the risk. But the risk is extremely high; if you do it to them, even with the best of reasons, they are going to do it back to you for any reason they can think of.
Hey remember when we had a 2 (plus?) Year trial over whether or not the president had sex with someone other than his wife? Something about family values or morality or whatever they said at the time?
Many will say that they wouldn’t need to protect their safety and privacy if they werent doing something wrong.
But in terms of if its ever appropriate for law enforcement to wear masks, isnt the question if its ever possible to threaten a law enforcement officers safety who isnt doing something wrong?
The FEDs wear masks in cartel operations all the time and that seems fine.
I'm not really sure what your getting at. The entire reason that masked LEs are opposed is because (1) it makes it impossible to hold them to account and (2) it makes it trivial to impersonate any LE (ICE hasn't exactly tried all that hard to make special gear for themselves, just buying what's on EBay and similar, so literally anyone could just buy the same gear they're using and impersonate an ICE officer, and since ICE doesn't like identifying themselves, you would have no immediate way of distinguishing between a random citizen who wants to ruff you up or murder you versus a LEO)
Yup. This is not okay. It should be illegal. Maybe it is, IANAL. This person didn't know whether she was getting arrested or kidnapped or why. On top of which this is unnecessary brutality on the face of it. This needs to stop.
> As she hits the sidewalk, Tan hears what she describes as “a godawful crack” come from her foot, and then realizes she’s being cuffed behind her back. “I’m being kidnapped and I have no idea who these men are,” Tan writes. She’s dragged to an unmarked SUV, thrown in the back, and claims to have heard one of the men say, “This could all have been avoided if you’d just come quietly.”
They don’t have a right to privacy when they’re at work. The Supreme Court has said it is legal to film officers, including their faces, while carrying out their duties.
There's going to be massive trials over the next few years. So many people are going to have accountability catch back up to them. Maybe not the ultra rich but all these ICE goons shooting people on the street will be held accountable.
Just upvoting to emphasize that Okta, SSO and MDM services in general are an extremely major single point of failure. From the point of view of a non-expert in security, it would seem like segmenting the authentication services of companies should be a security requirement.
Trusting an SSO system, or anything with security sensitive data on the public internet presents an attack surface with untenable risk when your adversary is thousands of people with LLM tools.
It’s going to take a lot of this before people realise using someone else’s computer is a pretty fucking stupid idea.
I mean Entra and Okta got popped. That should have been the point companies looked at this risk and went nope.
Right? Let's just keep this list as a list of people who should never hold office, or work in law enforcement ever again once Trump goes.
"Leaks" like this should just be a FoIA request. Anyone enforcing the law should have their face, and badge number, prominently shown at all times.
That's how we show that we aren't ashamed of our laws. Any time it takes a mask to do your job... you know you're doing something you ought not be doing.
At first I hoped that fears about ICE abuses were overblown, but then I saw video after video of masked, badge-free agents manhandling and throwing grandmas and elderly/weak people to the ground and generally acting like thugs, stalking immigration courts for people trying to comply, doing nazi salutes, etc. It quickly became clear that ICE is largely made up of KKK or proud boy thugs who see it as a chance to brutalize a vulnerable population that they despise.
Now that this data has been leaked, identities can be correlated with facial recognition, gait analysis, and other biometrics to conclusively identify the agents who committed crimes. Much of the video footage shows agents flagrantly breaking the law, abusing power, violating the rights of citizens and noncitizens alike.
Now that his leak has occurred, criminal ICE agents will be brought to justice for many of the crimes committed already, and the data will also inform the prosecution of crimes they will likely commit during the rest of Trump's term in office. Many of the crimes are violations of state law, so there is nothing the executive branch can do to stop the prosecutions.
Whatever your feelings about ICE and this administration, there are probably some undercover folks in real danger at the moment. Probably doing some real work to stop some real abuses that you’d want them to stop. (Not saying all - but likely some / many to be in that program)
So - while I might agree that secretive domestic organizations like MI5 should not exist and sunlight is good for government, I feel for the families of the folks that might catch a bullet because of this.
Hell nah. They signed up for this. They knew exactly what their mission was. Stop defending people who were recruited to deport, and in many cases assault, innocent people.
Making lame excuses for "the good guys" reinforces that these people are doing good. They arent.
Your excuse will be used against you as soon as it's convenient to them.
I don’t personally believe that everyone at ICE is specifically focused on this administration’s efforts (most are of course and many have quit in protest), the agency has done work that you’d probably want done around human smuggling and trafficking, anti-terrorism (actual terrorism) etc, and I wouldn’t paint all agents with such a broad brush. People stick around in the hopes they can do a good job again when the next guy lands. Sometimes!
Anyway - I just wanted to point out that these things can have consequences in the real world for people that aren’t necessarily the evil people you paint a picture of in your head.
That’s all. Nothing more. Not a value judgment. Just 53+ certified undercover legal names out in the open.
> Whatever your feelings about ICE and this administration, there are probably some undercover folks in real danger at the moment.
I'll say the same thing that no one with access to a microphone said during the 2013 NSA data leaks:
What makes you think that the Bad Guys didn't already have access to this information? The folks that should have detected this clearly didn't. [0] Given that the Good Guys didn't learn about this until it was made public, neither they nor we have any idea of knowing how many Bad Guys have been siphoning off this data and for how long.
[0] In this specific incident, Okta appears to be claiming that there has been no breach despite claims that it is the source of the information. Back in 2013 -given that the NSA would often claim something that would be quickly countered by the publication of yet another leaked document- it was pretty clear that the NSA had little idea of what data had been released to the press.
I’m not saying that at all. I’m merely suggesting that there’s potential that non-state actors like a local human smuggling ring, drug ring, or human trafficking operation may now be able to easily type in some name and figure out they have been infiltrated.
Of course it’s possible some bad guys had this. But probably not all of them.
> I’m merely suggesting that there’s potential that non-state actors like a local human smuggling ring, drug ring, or human trafficking operation may now be able to easily type in some name and figure out they have been infiltrated.
...what exactly do you imagine the Bad Guys would do with the information that they've likely been siphoning off of the systems of ICE and -in the past- the NSA? Do you imagine that they'd be exclusively distributing it via Sneakernet? Just like the Good Guys, the Bad Guys also have access to IT guys who know how to set up a login portal... and the well-resourced ones are totally capable of setting up things akin to SIPRNet.
Literally had to scroll to the bottom of the thread to find any sort of sensible comment. HN is in such sad state these days. Sorry you were downvoted by the radicals.
At little too convenient happening days before the midterm elections. Is this the precursor to a declaration of emergency? Perhaps after an act violence that was enabled by the leak?
All they have to say is “the voting machines were secured by PHP and eMuhdra certs, and weren’t patched” and SCOTUS will decide the outcome of the elections, like they did with “hanging chads” in 2000.
It'd be a shame if people started checking potential hires, tenants, dates, and business transactions against this info, cutting off ICE from large segments of the economy and society. I bet they'd feel really dehumanized.
74 comments
[ 0.36 ms ] story [ 31.7 ms ] threadWas this a person leaking, or a software system leaking or a hacker?
The leak was via a compromised Okta SSO login (why anyone still uses them is a complete mystery to me).
The Techdirt article also links to the searchable front end to the dump.
https://icepi.cx/
There should never ever be a masked police force in this country, it's disgusting
Think about all the things we've written off in the past two years and faded from the news
Like military helicopters landing on a city building and them blowing the doors off all the apartments dragging everyone from their apartments
And all bets are off for the next two years, looks like Dems will get the Senate but even then they can't stop the scorched-earth that is coming
As long as the sides keep reducing common ground, the farther away from government for the people, by the people we go.
That goes to the DOJ, which of course means nothing happens, at least for next 800 days
[0] https://rollcall.com/2019/05/08/just-where-is-this-secret-ho...
Maybe this is such an emergency that it's worth the risk. But the risk is extremely high; if you do it to them, even with the best of reasons, they are going to do it back to you for any reason they can think of.
Plus they will do it anyway. There is no shame or honor regulating their behavior.
Accountability is what was missed last time and is the only way forward.
What you're saying is that "we" shouldn't enforce the law because "they" will break the law in response.
Aside from being inherently morally bankrupt, they'rw already breaking the law.
But in terms of if its ever appropriate for law enforcement to wear masks, isnt the question if its ever possible to threaten a law enforcement officers safety who isnt doing something wrong?
The FEDs wear masks in cartel operations all the time and that seems fine.
https://kotaku.com/umamusume-pretty-derby-cosplay-clara-tan-...
> As she hits the sidewalk, Tan hears what she describes as “a godawful crack” come from her foot, and then realizes she’s being cuffed behind her back. “I’m being kidnapped and I have no idea who these men are,” Tan writes. She’s dragged to an unmarked SUV, thrown in the back, and claims to have heard one of the men say, “This could all have been avoided if you’d just come quietly.”
I mean, they’re not wrong…
Would be wonderful to include links/searches to Open Oversight, cpdp.co and ILETSB lookups.
Trusting an SSO system, or anything with security sensitive data on the public internet presents an attack surface with untenable risk when your adversary is thousands of people with LLM tools.
It’s going to take a lot of this before people realise using someone else’s computer is a pretty fucking stupid idea.
I mean Entra and Okta got popped. That should have been the point companies looked at this risk and went nope.
"Leaks" like this should just be a FoIA request. Anyone enforcing the law should have their face, and badge number, prominently shown at all times.
That's how we show that we aren't ashamed of our laws. Any time it takes a mask to do your job... you know you're doing something you ought not be doing.
Now that this data has been leaked, identities can be correlated with facial recognition, gait analysis, and other biometrics to conclusively identify the agents who committed crimes. Much of the video footage shows agents flagrantly breaking the law, abusing power, violating the rights of citizens and noncitizens alike.
Now that his leak has occurred, criminal ICE agents will be brought to justice for many of the crimes committed already, and the data will also inform the prosecution of crimes they will likely commit during the rest of Trump's term in office. Many of the crimes are violations of state law, so there is nothing the executive branch can do to stop the prosecutions.
So - while I might agree that secretive domestic organizations like MI5 should not exist and sunlight is good for government, I feel for the families of the folks that might catch a bullet because of this.
Making lame excuses for "the good guys" reinforces that these people are doing good. They arent.
Your excuse will be used against you as soon as it's convenient to them.
Anyway - I just wanted to point out that these things can have consequences in the real world for people that aren’t necessarily the evil people you paint a picture of in your head.
That’s all. Nothing more. Not a value judgment. Just 53+ certified undercover legal names out in the open.
I'll say the same thing that no one with access to a microphone said during the 2013 NSA data leaks:
What makes you think that the Bad Guys didn't already have access to this information? The folks that should have detected this clearly didn't. [0] Given that the Good Guys didn't learn about this until it was made public, neither they nor we have any idea of knowing how many Bad Guys have been siphoning off this data and for how long.
[0] In this specific incident, Okta appears to be claiming that there has been no breach despite claims that it is the source of the information. Back in 2013 -given that the NSA would often claim something that would be quickly countered by the publication of yet another leaked document- it was pretty clear that the NSA had little idea of what data had been released to the press.
Of course it’s possible some bad guys had this. But probably not all of them.
...what exactly do you imagine the Bad Guys would do with the information that they've likely been siphoning off of the systems of ICE and -in the past- the NSA? Do you imagine that they'd be exclusively distributing it via Sneakernet? Just like the Good Guys, the Bad Guys also have access to IT guys who know how to set up a login portal... and the well-resourced ones are totally capable of setting up things akin to SIPRNet.
Opus should make quick work of it.
Snoop on to them... as they snoop on to us, mf's