Every time I see a person leading a model to specialize in a uniquely human endeavour, I think of the last lines of this stanza from Bob Dylan's It's Alright, Ma (I'm Only Bleeding):
Disillusioned words like bullets bark
As human gods aim for their mark
Make everything from toy guns that spark
To flesh-colored Christs that glow in the dark
It’s easy to see without looking too far
That not much is really sacred
The post seems to refer to a very specific subset of demoscene:
> I came across Dwitter.net, which is like Twitter but for 140 character JavaScript demos. They already supported “remix”-ing any dweet so that we can build on top of them.
The existence of LLMs is not the problem. The insane way they've been integrated into society is the problem. Back in 2020, GPT-2 was something novel you'd do random experiments with and something like this would've been cool. As long as it remains a silly experiment, it still is cool.
This person is actually correct. Demos are much more on the art side of coding than most forms of programming, so while LLMs may be up to the mechanical task, they won't produce code with the finesse that a human coder can. That goes double for the art and music. What's more, a demo with AI-gen elements wouldn't be accepted by the community. AI-gen webshit may be embraced by the industry, but the demoscene has different standards: human craftsmanship is the entire point.
Relatedly, I was a bit surprised and delighted to find out that the Sonic (the Hedgehog) community is vehemently rejecting AI recompiles, ports, and fangame projects. Clankers are ok with them when it comes to Dr. Robotnik's evil creations, but not in the real world!
I think you misunderstand the point of the demoscene. It’s about mathematical prowess and the joy of puzzle-solving moreso than pretty pictures. Nobody in the scene wants this.
It might be difficult to say "No, I do not want this magic box." when under the pressure of economic forces that require you to use the magic box, but that doesn't mean you need to use the magic box in all other areas of your life.
Would be fun to see models trained on ancient figures that you could interact and chat with.
Less fun to see models imitating human art, they’re not ready for that yet IMP because they’re too derivative and not creative in interesting ways in the way that humans are.
The human side of the demo scene is what I think makes it appealing. Sharing and consuming. A fellow human did that! Coder-as-problem-solver-and-artist.
For sure it’s intellectually interesting if AI can generate something novel within demoscene constraints (140 chars or extreme low res or a POKEY chip at 1MHz or whatever) … something humans maybe thought impossible … like a winning move that makes a go or chess grandmaster say WTF. It changes what’s possible. But then most of us (?) still hope the sport/scene/art goes back to human endeavour.
I’ve been to parties where demos are running on a large screen, even ones we’ve seen before, and the audience will ooo and aah because a human figured out how to do that stuff under constraint. The magic is lost if it’s generated IMO.
> ... and the audience will ooo and aah because a human figured out how to do that stuff under constraint.
Or because the audience appreciates the artists' emotion and creative effort embodied in what they're watching. The Razor1911 demo, released at Revision 2026, is a great example there - there's some neat effects but nothing groundbreaking, but that isn't the point. It's a retrospective on the group that produced it, and the surrounding scene, and that's what won it the competition.
congratulations on rediscovering genetic algorithms in procedurally generated art. why learn the math and size coding optimizations that make the effects possible when you can just throw tokens at it and spend time filtering the garbage for the machine? what a time to be alive!
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[ 5.0 ms ] story [ 34.0 ms ] thread> I came across Dwitter.net, which is like Twitter but for 140 character JavaScript demos. They already supported “remix”-ing any dweet so that we can build on top of them.
Relatedly, I was a bit surprised and delighted to find out that the Sonic (the Hedgehog) community is vehemently rejecting AI recompiles, ports, and fangame projects. Clankers are ok with them when it comes to Dr. Robotnik's evil creations, but not in the real world!
To me, demoscene was about embracing new technology and using it to express yourself.
It's enshrined now and so I find it to have served it's purpose. Look forward, not back.
A better example:
You prefer to shit in your own toilet but someone else prefers to shit on their own carpet.
It devalues art.
If something is overvalued then a process that devalues it should be welcomed.
Largely true for all people who do creatively skilled tasks, and yet AI is still coming for all of us.
slop. Dwitter is nowhere near approaching a count of d/367547
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demosthenes
Would be fun to see models trained on ancient figures that you could interact and chat with.
Less fun to see models imitating human art, they’re not ready for that yet IMP because they’re too derivative and not creative in interesting ways in the way that humans are.
For sure it’s intellectually interesting if AI can generate something novel within demoscene constraints (140 chars or extreme low res or a POKEY chip at 1MHz or whatever) … something humans maybe thought impossible … like a winning move that makes a go or chess grandmaster say WTF. It changes what’s possible. But then most of us (?) still hope the sport/scene/art goes back to human endeavour.
I’ve been to parties where demos are running on a large screen, even ones we’ve seen before, and the audience will ooo and aah because a human figured out how to do that stuff under constraint. The magic is lost if it’s generated IMO.
Or because the audience appreciates the artists' emotion and creative effort embodied in what they're watching. The Razor1911 demo, released at Revision 2026, is a great example there - there's some neat effects but nothing groundbreaking, but that isn't the point. It's a retrospective on the group that produced it, and the surrounding scene, and that's what won it the competition.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWs3N8eaPMY
https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=105954
This is oil and water.
Demoscenes are for human creations.
Leave AI out of it. Don't ruin yet another hobby.
The community will never accept what you made.
The scene is about making art and cool stuff with tech. AI is just the latest tech, it’s entirely what the scene is about.
To deny that is just to be a silly snob and just to show them for who they really are.