One part is kinda poorly worded in my opinion.
While reading it, I asked myself "will takeover happen September 2027?" due to wording 'this September'. Somehow I missed that announcement and needed some short research to get to know that it was initiated 2 months ago (September 26) and will probably be finished until mid of 27.
I gave a safety talk at an ML conference that also had a skeptical representative from HuggingFace. Like Delangue, he didn't seem to have seriously considered the threat model--myopically focused on the capabilities of current agents (a myopia which, while less excusable then than in 2015 or 2021; was at least more excusable than Delangue's in this article since HF hadn't yet been pantsed by an agent swarm).
It's not that long ago that sites were pantsed by bored college students, rather than agents. It didn't stop because sites got more secure really, it stopped because those students started getting real life consequences.
Gives you a real easy solution to stop the agents too.
That's such an odd thing for him to say while also not pursuing a legal case against OpenAI. If he believes agentic cyber attacks should be illegal he's in a perfect spot to have courts rule on that.
I watched a video from him recently where he said open source models would win people's trust when it comes to AI. But I struggle to reconcile this with the above picture; if open source models become the norm, I feel P(Doom) probably will go up rather than down. At least the frontier AI firms have some guardrails in place (although after the Hugging Face hack they clearly aren't great). a wild west of everyone running their own model is surely worse in that regard.
P(Doom) is an invented concept, relative to ones own version of "doom", can we maybe actually act like adults and not man children who are engaged in performative speculative fiction. There are real problems like inequality that P(Doom) loves to conveniently forget.
> P(Doom) is an invented concept, relative to ones own version of "doom", can we maybe actually act like adults and not man children who are engaged in performative speculative fiction.
I agree with that, especially with some of the more fanciful "extinction" scenarios.
> There are real problems like inequality that P(Doom) loves to conveniently forget.
Extreme inequality is my "Doom", and I think the P(Doom) of that is pretty high. With AI, I'm way more concerned with human marginalization, capitalism run amok, pervasive surveillance and control, etc. than killer robots and bioweapons.
A bunch of sites getting hacked isn't an existential threat. An existential threat would be something that could viably imperil the survival of civilization. The problem with existential threat concepts is that it generally requires fields where the limiting factor isn't knowledge. If somebody has the intelligence, resources, and desire to e.g. try to build a deadly biological virus, it's certainly not the lack of knowledge that's stopping them.
In general if we go back 50 years ago, when a single common phone today would have been seen as a super-computing device of unimaginable power, governments would likely have viewed it as a potential world-ending technology. It obviously wasn't and isn't. The conservatism would come solely from the fact of it being a revolutionary leap. That's all we're seeing happen with LLMs as well. In 30 years everybody will have vastly more competent AI systems running locally on whatever sort of digital devices we're using then, and they'll look back at with bemusement about us freaking out about people being able to query computers in natural language.
- countries start deploying GPT6+ - level ai in many local datacenters (let's say to process administrative stuff in one hopital / adminstration or even full city).
- some guys publish an open source way to remove the guardrails (either by post training or just nn level hack)
- you get possibly many local datacenters with a 'hugging face hacking' ability
- some dude ask "hey plz hack the military"
that probably still dont mean we should ban open source ai, but a open source model able to hack half the planet computers would be a 'concern' somehow
> but a open source model able to hack half the planet computers would be a 'concern' somehow
Well, a closed source model able to hack half the planet will be a far bigger concern if there aren't enough cheap open source models to harden the software and write software for defense in depth.
> some dude ask "hey plz hack the military"
Military gear, capable of moderate levels of destruction and above, should be air-gaped and also hardened using good open source AI - as a precaution. If that's not the case, state sponsored human adversaries would be able to cause maximum damage even without AI.
Why do you think AI is mandatory here? And why do you think adversarial state actors will be deterred by your banning of your own open AI? They can even promise not to use it, may sign treaties about not using it but enforcing that would still be impossible.
As your parent said, control the tangible agents of destruction, controlling knowledge is the wet dream of many but it's a lost cause.
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[ 0.11 ms ] story [ 22.6 ms ] threadIt's not that long ago that sites were pantsed by bored college students, rather than agents. It didn't stop because sites got more secure really, it stopped because those students started getting real life consequences.
Gives you a real easy solution to stop the agents too.
> Cyber-attacks are illegal, and I think it’s really important we make sure that agentic cyberattacks [are] illegal
Adama: "It's an integrated computer network, and I will not have it aboard this ship."
[0] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8vgxyvz6y9ro
I agree with that, especially with some of the more fanciful "extinction" scenarios.
> There are real problems like inequality that P(Doom) loves to conveniently forget.
Extreme inequality is my "Doom", and I think the P(Doom) of that is pretty high. With AI, I'm way more concerned with human marginalization, capitalism run amok, pervasive surveillance and control, etc. than killer robots and bioweapons.
In general if we go back 50 years ago, when a single common phone today would have been seen as a super-computing device of unimaginable power, governments would likely have viewed it as a potential world-ending technology. It obviously wasn't and isn't. The conservatism would come solely from the fact of it being a revolutionary leap. That's all we're seeing happen with LLMs as well. In 30 years everybody will have vastly more competent AI systems running locally on whatever sort of digital devices we're using then, and they'll look back at with bemusement about us freaking out about people being able to query computers in natural language.
- countries start deploying GPT6+ - level ai in many local datacenters (let's say to process administrative stuff in one hopital / adminstration or even full city).
- some guys publish an open source way to remove the guardrails (either by post training or just nn level hack)
- you get possibly many local datacenters with a 'hugging face hacking' ability
- some dude ask "hey plz hack the military"
that probably still dont mean we should ban open source ai, but a open source model able to hack half the planet computers would be a 'concern' somehow
Well, a closed source model able to hack half the planet will be a far bigger concern if there aren't enough cheap open source models to harden the software and write software for defense in depth.
> some dude ask "hey plz hack the military"
Military gear, capable of moderate levels of destruction and above, should be air-gaped and also hardened using good open source AI - as a precaution. If that's not the case, state sponsored human adversaries would be able to cause maximum damage even without AI.
Why do you think AI is mandatory here? And why do you think adversarial state actors will be deterred by your banning of your own open AI? They can even promise not to use it, may sign treaties about not using it but enforcing that would still be impossible.
As your parent said, control the tangible agents of destruction, controlling knowledge is the wet dream of many but it's a lost cause.