I (and probably several other) members of the board will be on this thread to answer any questions.
Van Lindberg
Chairman, Python Software Foundation
Edit: I have been asked what sort of statements would be helpful. I can't tell you exactly what to say - it needs to be your statement, but we need to make it clear that when someone says "Python" in relation to software, or a "Python server," or with "Python experience," they are referring to Python-the-language.
We also want people to testify to their understanding that Python is distributed by the Python Software Foundation.
These are not exactly the same, but this gives a flavor of some of the things that can be helpful:
In case anyone wants to know, it is CTM Application No. 10848208 PYTHON & Device in the name of POBox Hosting
Edit 2: I have already received a book written in Spain, job postings about Python, and a number of statements of support. Thank you! Please, keep sending them. We need to make sure that it is clear that "Python" is Python across the entire EU.
What would the ramifications be if the PSF loses the rights to the name "Python" in Europe? Would it force the language itself to be rebranded for all European usage?
I can imagine that at that point the company owning the Python trademark would be able to go after other companies offering Python services for trademark infringement, and various other legal threats related to it...
Well, the question itself is stupid not because something is obvious in the outcome, but because obviously nobody can predict the future. And using simple words is not hostile, at least using the term "stupid" in my previous comment had no hostility intended.
I excuse for any irritation it might have caused and hopefully I could remove now any of these.
Surely at least some part of their stack is built using Python, so couldn't you tell them that they may not use the software if they are going to proceed with this?
That's not how the open-source movement works. You can't start excluding people based on usage you don't like. If you do that, you're explicitly not following open-source ideals.
It's not at all - that means you're ceding many rights to the authors of the software. Suppose I want to use open source X from Company Y, and they had that provision. Then I find that Company Y is pirating my software, slandering, hacking our servers - if I sue them, I now lose my license?
Why would I build on something that lets the owner act against me with relative impunity (assuming the software is something critical)?
I considered that and I'll admit that I was being a bit lazy with my comment but I think it could be written in a reasonable way. Perhaps a license fee attached to any failed legal action. Or even limit to certain types of legal action.
We can't even be sure that Python-the-company is using Python-the software, so ...
Furthermore, I think the problem is not here, the PSF clearly made a mistake by not registering the name (it's not a matter of 'bad law'). If we apply your solution, then it would mean that a company which does not use Python can still ask to register a global trademark named on the term.
Apache license, mozilla license and GPL has provisions that terminates the licence upon the initiation of particular lawsuits. The most common ones are Patent retaliation clauses. This is nothing strange, and has existed for a rather long time. It would not be a stretch to expand this to trademark lawsuits.
The company I work for might be applicable to write a letter in support. What email address should I use for getting help in drafting such a letter, and convincing management to get on board?
The website mentions psf-trademarks@python.org in reference to completed letters, should I contact that email address for help in drafting a letter?
FWIW, I am regularly contacted to be hired as a Python developer (notably by Luxembourg folks). Throughout job offers in computers, there is no ambiguity as to what Python means.
At least Aalto University in Finland uses Python as the entry level teaching language nowadays [1]. I don't know anyone from the CS department but I'll do my best to reach out to them about the matter.
Some universities and engineering schools in France are teaching Python or using Python in some classes. The one I attended (Télécom Bretagne) does. Here is, for instance, a course about Sage and Python: http://formations.telecom-bretagne.eu/fad/course/view.php?id...
waiting for LibreOffice to download so I can wack things together for you. I am a UK developer/student.
I'll be including:
- screencap of my github profile (4 or 5 projects written in python)
- 2 approaches from companies wanting to hire me (through LinkedIn) because I had
"Python" listed on my profile
- Academic references which use "Python" the programming language in a title or
abstract.
- evidence of my experience with Linux (i.e. that python is preinstalled in many
many distributions),
- evidence that I am writing the majority of my PhD code (I'll get you line
counts) in Python.
This makes me very very angry. If you have the address of the company or anything, I'd also like to write to them to tell them they're insane to try this - they're an embarrassment to the UK.
Would not Google search, Wikipedia and Stackoverflow statistic be of some worth to show what the dominant usage of the word python is in the realm of software?
Canonical is based in London UK. Ubuntu makes extensive use of python scripting (I believe Shuttleworth used Python for his original Thawte software). Perhaps they would be prepared to provide evidence statements if approached?
I help run barrapunto.com, a Slasdhot clone in Spanish backed by a Spanish company. We have a Python topic that refers to the Python language. We lost some of our early content, but currently our first story on that topic is from October 2001:
I suspect the only reason PoBox/Veber are now filing a trademark is to pre-empt a challenge on the domain. They are just domain squatters who got hold of python.co.uk and now see it as investment -- possibly one of their last chances at surviving, seeing how they're rumoured to be £ 300k in debt.
We're a UK based company whose stack is almost completely built in Python - one official letter of support is winging its way to your lawyers as we speak.
Do the owners of python.co.uk not have to prove the legitimacy of their right to the name as well? I'm fairly sure that trademark law works on the principle that you have to be seen to defend your trademark in order for it to be considered your intellectual property (it's why you often see silly stories in the news about big companies chasing after trivial businesses then settling quietly out of court). As the other company has let "their" trademark fester for 13 years, I can't see how they have any legitimate legal claim.
The argument works both ways: if the PSF cannot assert a trademark on the name "Python," the owners of the python.co.uk domain shouldn't be able to take ownership of the name either. Why are they trying to do it right now?
The owners of python.co.uk have waited 13 years to make a complaint about others using their trademark. And due to this, are arguably in a weak position to claim ownership of the trademark.
So my question is this; are the owners of python.co.uk also being challenged to prove they've used their trademark? Are the owners of python.co.uk being challenged to prove that they've tried to enforce control over the trademark over the 13 years leading up to this case?
> "All other WordPress-related businesses or projects can use the WordPress name and logo to refer to and explain their services, but they cannot use them as part of a product, project, service, domain, or company name and they cannot use them in any way that suggests an affiliation with or endorsement by the WordPress Foundation or the WordPress open source project. For example, a consulting company can describe its business as “123 Web Services, offering WordPress consulting for small businesses,” but cannot call its business “The WordPress Consulting Company.” Similarly, a business related to WordPress themes can describe itself as “XYZ Themes, the world’s best WordPress themes,” but cannot call itself “The WordPress Theme Portal.”
> Similarly, it’s OK to use the WordPress or WordCamp logo as part of a page that describes your products or services, but it is not OK to use it as part of your company or product logo or branding itself. Under no circumstances is it permitted to use WordPress or WordCamp as part of a top-level domain name."
The reason for this is quite simple, they've been seen to enforce their trademark so if there's ever any disputes, Wordpress are on strong legal ground. However python.co.uk owners have allowed the name -"their" trademark- to be borrowed and used globally. So it's now a grey issue as to whether the aforementioned still have a legal right to that trademark.
So if I understand trademark law, then the PSF should also be challenging python.co.uk to prove that they've made any effort to enforce their trademark before now. I hope for PSF's sake that I am right here because that would put them in a much stronger position to win this dispute than just proving the widespread use of the term under their context alone.
As long as you registered the trademark this first of all is your legitimacy - that's why you register it.
This registration has been opposed so I assume now PSF via their UK counsellor will add some evidence to the opposition. If the opposition is successful it can turn out that owners of pythong.co.uk will not be able to get the trademark registration into a successful status.
So right now, they don't need to defend anything, it's more or less that they are opposed. Which is why the PSF needs your help to find evidence and show how the name actually is and was used to finally show probably either that:
- the EU trademark belongs to PSF (or elseone PYTHON related)
- the name can not be trademarked at all in that class because it has its distinct, public meaning in internet/computing.
I'm going to ask my manager if I can write a letter on behalf of us, we're in the TeliaSonera family of companies.
But I also think you should hawk some merchandise. T-shirts with the snake, or the Python logo. This would even help your case if people around the world were wearing them or sending in photos wearing them.
It's sort of ironic and myopic for this little service to want to infringe or start an issue with the Python, or even the programming community at large. They do cloud hosting? So then I imagine a good portion of their business deals with developers? That's a pretty good tact, I wonder how that will work out for them. I wonder if they think they will get good publicity out of this.
The best part about it is their servers probably come with Python preinstalled, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the devs/sysadmins script in python on the servers.
I just emailed them directly along the same lines. Not a flame, just a reasonable message with a link to this thread and a comment about possible negative public relations fallout.
I've also suggested this as a story for The Register. Should generate more evidence and a good head of righteous indignation.
Contact Google. I'd venture that the chances of support are not low. Not only do they have the mentality, they also had Guido van Rossum, python's inventor and head developer, employed for years. And they are certainly well-known 8)
To say that Python is one of google's main languages might be a bit of an overstatement. I think that they are mainly a C++/Go/Java shop and use Python for glue code, or so I have been told by employees. This could be wrong, though.
"Glue code" might be a little unfair, but it does tend to be much more used for internal tools than customer-facing code. I don't know official numbers, but I would think it'd still be still the #3 language after C++ and Java.
HN is not reddit. If it helps though, intellectual property disputes are resolved on the facts of specific cases, rather than headlines. Even a loss for the PSF May not be that bad, as there is likely to be a ruling that both marks could coexist, given Python's long heritage and no evidence on consumer confusion.
It should be stressed that usage of the mark must be shown to be of more than local significance to defeat the application from the UK company. Consequently it is vital that folks from as many EU countries as possible respond to the request in the post.
I am surprised in some ways that you couldn't have attracted some pro bono assistance for this cause. This is a case that I would have loved to have drafted the opposition pleadings in relation to.
Although I would hope that the media attention that should arise as a result of this application would be sufficient to cause the applicant to withdraw their application, or at the very least narrow down the specification to hosting services.
Even if the specification was narrowed down, the likelihood of confusion is still high in my view.
This is a good read on the criteria that will have to be satisfied:
Thanks for your words - and we would love to get your assistance and advice. Unfortunately, our network of Python-using lawyers is much thinner in Europe than in the US. Feel free to contact me!
Sure thing - will send an email. Looks like K&S have got things fully under control at present (had a look at the OHIM filings) but happy to be a sounding board or provide whatever input I can.
It's unclear from this whether or not Python would have to change the name of the programming language if they didn't get the trademark, or whether this UK company would just have the right to call their products "Python" too.
Early in the article it says: "There is a company in the UK that is trying to trademark the use of the term "Python" for all software, services, servers... pretty much anything having to do with a computer.".
And later it says, where the Python foundation is soliciting comments: "your view that another company using term Python to refer to services, software, and servers would be confusing".
I for one hope the Python foundation doesn't get an exclusive trademark for all "software, services, servers" in the E.U. Outside of software "Python" is a well-known generic name for an animal, I don't think the EU should be protecting such generic names.
But on the other hand it would also suck if this U.K. company gained exclusive use over the trademark.
Good point! I guess it would be fine as long as the UK company does not gain exclusive rights to Python, I don't think that would be possible with EU law though, I'm pretty sure you can't get a trademark for the name of an animal.
Our main point of contention is that they are claiming that the right to be the sole source of "Python" software, servers, and services. We have reached out to them to try to reach some accommodation (they can be "Python backup services," for example) but they are not willing to take us seriously.
It still isn't clear to me whether your purpose here is inclusive (you don't want to lose the right to use "Python" as a trademark) or exclusive (you don't want this company to be able to use "Python" for its server products). At first I thought the former, but a close reading of your post suggests it may be the latter. Please clarify.
If your purpose is exclusive, then I can't support you. There is an open source Common Lisp implementation, originally developed at CMU in the mid-1980s, whose compiler is called Python. It is still in use. I think a compiler and a language are close enough that you have no exclusive right to the name.
That's not the way trademarks work. Trademarks cover one or more industries, so your snake is completely safe. In fact, if you wanted to make a car called the Python or a chair called the Python or just about anything else called the Python, you would be welcome to it (assuming somebody else hadn't trademarked that). Even in software, you could incorporate the word Python as long as it didn't cause confusion (for instance, making the game "Snake: a Young Python's Journey" would most likely be fine [note: IANAL]).
However, due to the "fight for it or lose it" nature, if this company was given the trademark, they would have no choice but to threaten legal action against the PSF and everybody who produces something with Python in the name: a very large group of people, products and companies.
>if this company was given the trademark, they would have no choice but to threaten legal action against the PSF //
I'm afraid that, at least in UK and USA, you're wrong in your assumption of "fight for it or lose it".
You have to pay your registration fees and use the trademark for trade. You can allow unpaid use, you can even ignore de minimis use without any notification.
Even if it were "fight it or lose it" then it would only be for use of their mark to indicate the origin of goods or services that they could object to. If it's clear the goods don't originate with the owners of Python RTM then there is no trademark infringement (this doesn't quite apply to "famous" marks however that get extra protection).
"Fight it or lose it" sort of applies to genericisation but there's absolutely no chance that python is going to become a generic term in the software field for something other than python-the-language for the foreseeable future.
On a general issue I don't think it's right for PSF to attempt to gain a registered mark for python in the context of computing. Nor indeed should any sane TM office grant them a word mark as python is not distinct enough to indicate that goods or services originate with PSF. Indeed in terms of CTM it appears a registration is held by an individual that covers the software class already.
Oo, some companies are definitive assholes. I am in the US but I run a company in france that does software development, will try to mail you a letter.
It's probably of interest that this and many other Python packages have the word "Python" in the name of the package. I would hate to have to wonder whether PythonCoolPackage was for the Python language, or for interaction with some random company who chose Python as their trademark. I know that if something says Python today it's most likely to do with the language.
The EuroPython Conference is certainly about the language. There are probably other European conferences where you can assume that Python means Python.
Yes, in Europe as well, I can confirm. In IT, Python is the programming language. On Google, even typed as a single word, it appears also on top of the search results beneath the animal.
There are thousands of European companies using Python. Some very notable companies too like http://www.distilled.net/ as well as dozens of huge financial organisations such as http://www.cqs.ch/.
This is mostly OT, but when browsing python.org for listed corporate sponsors, I noticed that some characters like ä or é are rendered as diamonds. This is because the page charset is utf-8, but the mentioned characters are encoded in iso-8859-1.
Yeah, minor as can be, but IMO when someone donates they should've have spelled their name right. I'm reporting this here because someone who can fix this is most likely reading.
PS. IMO there is not much reason to worry. Python has so many friends. Google should buy the company and close it.
What stings a little more is that the webserver at python.co.uk is running Debian[1], which contains some version of Python by default (even in the minimal install).
I hope our trademark office has the sense to reject this.
I am from the UK and been programming in Python since before that domain was registered and happy to help.
Am I missing something, if you go to Amazon.co.uk and search for "python" (not just in books, but a top level saerch) - (e.g. http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%...) the top results are all books about the Python programming language published in the UK.
Similarly search for "Python" on any Uk based jobs site
As a Saas provider within the recruitment business we have plenty of examples of where Python is used to categorize candidates proficient in Python. There is not a bit of ambiguity there.
Since anyfoo suggested contacting Google, it may be worthwhile contacting GCHQ [1] (they are the UK intelligence / code breaking agency). It is a very possible that they use Python internally. Since they are public sector rather than private sector it may not be of much help, but it is just an idea. Hope it helps!
> Facing some of the most complex challenges in the industry, our work ranges from small teams with each individual working the whole engineering lifecycle, through to £multi-million programmes staffed by specialist professionals cutting across industry, government and national boundaries. From Software Developers (primarily Java, JEE, C and C++), Database Developers (Oracle), Software Designers and Architects (with OO, UML) to Configuration Managers, Build and Integration Managers and more, the roles here are many and varied.
This is a prime example of why you have to vigorously police and defend a trade mark in order to reap the benefits from it. People complain when a large company does it to a small one, but if they don't they can easily find themselves in a situation like this.
It is the sad truth of the current trademark/patent system.
I am currently creating my own product, and the very first thing I made was to create a new name, and claim the mark. It cost me some money, but not that much compared to the risk of being in trouble with trolls.
The sad things is that by doing this, I am probably feeding the complexity of the system myself.
I did an RHCE exam in 2003, in their place in Surrey (Guildford IIRC). I am pretty sure that Red Hat is a long time user and has been using Python to mean the language in their software and documentation in the UK a long time ago. Can you contact Red Hat or users of their software of exams for the last twenty years to confirm that? I imagine they would be happy to help.
Why would an obscure IT company want the name Python ? Aren't they guaranteeing nobody will ever be able to locate them with a google search for example ?
Excellent point. I was searching just today for a good handout or resource for statistics students on how to organise numerical information into tables (the kind you make in word processors). I kept getting references to database design/programming. The old meaning of 'table' is shadowed in Google by the computer science meaning.
First there's Google. They are heavy on Python and has several offices in the EU. I think the original version of their crawler was written in Python.
Academia: Cambridge has a Python course. I think Python as a teaching language has potential to go quite far back. Historical documents could be course catalogues, slides, handouts or even exams.
Commercial training: Quick Googling brings up qa.com and learningtree.co.uk, both are in the UK and have Python training and (obviously) a commercial interest in the word retaining it's meaning. They might very well have old marketing material or invoices for Python training lying around.
Concentrating on the other company: A Google search for [python hosting] doesn't even return them on the first page of hits; it returns a bunch of other companies offering hosting for python (the language) stuff or questions about hosting python (the language) based stuff.
You offered them the limited "python cloud hosting" and they refused? Baffling. Good Luck.
167 comments
[ 1.9 ms ] story [ 216 ms ] threadVan Lindberg Chairman, Python Software Foundation
Edit: I have been asked what sort of statements would be helpful. I can't tell you exactly what to say - it needs to be your statement, but we need to make it clear that when someone says "Python" in relation to software, or a "Python server," or with "Python experience," they are referring to Python-the-language.
We also want people to testify to their understanding that Python is distributed by the Python Software Foundation.
These are not exactly the same, but this gives a flavor of some of the things that can be helpful:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zxn212k5r8mg1k7/WitnessStatement.p...
In case anyone wants to know, it is CTM Application No. 10848208 PYTHON & Device in the name of POBox Hosting
Edit 2: I have already received a book written in Spain, job postings about Python, and a number of statements of support. Thank you! Please, keep sending them. We need to make sure that it is clear that "Python" is Python across the entire EU.
After all, we all learn by asking questions.
I excuse for any irritation it might have caused and hopefully I could remove now any of these.
Edit: if you're going to down-vote, at least read my clarification below.
Why would I build on something that lets the owner act against me with relative impunity (assuming the software is something critical)?
Furthermore, I think the problem is not here, the PSF clearly made a mistake by not registering the name (it's not a matter of 'bad law'). If we apply your solution, then it would mean that a company which does not use Python can still ask to register a global trademark named on the term.
You acquire some pretty reasonable rights in a trademark by virtue of use alone.
The website mentions psf-trademarks@python.org in reference to completed letters, should I contact that email address for help in drafting a letter?
http://python.org/news/
I'm going to forward this to some people working with Python in Europe, and I guess a link to the homepage might look more credible that to a blog.
[1]: https://noppa.aalto.fi/noppa/kurssi/t-106.1208/
I've reached out to a professor from University of Copenhagen who teaches a course on Molecular Dynamics using Python.
Another course from Copenhagen teaching Python is listed here http://sis.ku.dk/kurser/viskursus.aspx?knr=130419
Here is a job offer by a research laboratory: http://fr.lolix.org/search/offre/offre.php?id=15660
The French Python association has a Web page with lots of job offers too: http://www.afpy.org/jobs
Description of the course and its objectives, both in Estonian and English: https://www.is.ut.ee/reports/rwservlet?oa_aine_info.rdf+1010...
Learning material, in Estonian but there is Python code everywhere: http://courses.cs.ut.ee/2011/programmeerimine/uploads/Arvuti...
I'll be including:
This makes me very very angry. If you have the address of the company or anything, I'd also like to write to them to tell them they're insane to try this - they're an embarrassment to the UK.The exception is Google's USENET cache.
http://softlibre.barrapunto.com/article.pl?sid=01/10/20/0982...
Using Archive.org, I can find a story about the release of Python 2.0 from October 2000:
http://web.archive.org/web/20001214042200/http://barrapunto....
This last one is shown on this front page with a different design:
http://web.archive.org/web/20001018174909/http://barrapunto....
http://www.nominet.org.uk/disputes/when-use-drs/policy-and-p...
You might have a case under 3c(ii).
Edit: By the way, Nominet themselves use (or used) mailman, which uses Python:
https://lists.nominet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/nom-steer
So you might have some sympathy there.
I asked a legitimate question.
The owners of python.co.uk have waited 13 years to make a complaint about others using their trademark. And due to this, are arguably in a weak position to claim ownership of the trademark.
So my question is this; are the owners of python.co.uk also being challenged to prove they've used their trademark? Are the owners of python.co.uk being challenged to prove that they've tried to enforce control over the trademark over the 13 years leading up to this case?
If you want an example of what I mean, then check domain name trademark policy: http://wordpressfoundation.org/trademark-policy/
> "All other WordPress-related businesses or projects can use the WordPress name and logo to refer to and explain their services, but they cannot use them as part of a product, project, service, domain, or company name and they cannot use them in any way that suggests an affiliation with or endorsement by the WordPress Foundation or the WordPress open source project. For example, a consulting company can describe its business as “123 Web Services, offering WordPress consulting for small businesses,” but cannot call its business “The WordPress Consulting Company.” Similarly, a business related to WordPress themes can describe itself as “XYZ Themes, the world’s best WordPress themes,” but cannot call itself “The WordPress Theme Portal.”
> Similarly, it’s OK to use the WordPress or WordCamp logo as part of a page that describes your products or services, but it is not OK to use it as part of your company or product logo or branding itself. Under no circumstances is it permitted to use WordPress or WordCamp as part of a top-level domain name."
The reason for this is quite simple, they've been seen to enforce their trademark so if there's ever any disputes, Wordpress are on strong legal ground. However python.co.uk owners have allowed the name -"their" trademark- to be borrowed and used globally. So it's now a grey issue as to whether the aforementioned still have a legal right to that trademark.
So if I understand trademark law, then the PSF should also be challenging python.co.uk to prove that they've made any effort to enforce their trademark before now. I hope for PSF's sake that I am right here because that would put them in a much stronger position to win this dispute than just proving the widespread use of the term under their context alone.
This registration has been opposed so I assume now PSF via their UK counsellor will add some evidence to the opposition. If the opposition is successful it can turn out that owners of pythong.co.uk will not be able to get the trademark registration into a successful status.
So right now, they don't need to defend anything, it's more or less that they are opposed. Which is why the PSF needs your help to find evidence and show how the name actually is and was used to finally show probably either that:
- the EU trademark belongs to PSF (or elseone PYTHON related) - the name can not be trademarked at all in that class because it has its distinct, public meaning in internet/computing.
But I also think you should hawk some merchandise. T-shirts with the snake, or the Python logo. This would even help your case if people around the world were wearing them or sending in photos wearing them.
I've also suggested this as a story for The Register. Should generate more evidence and a good head of righteous indignation.
http://techcrunch.com/2012/12/03/dropbox-follows-the-tech-cr...
why would
I don't
WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD TRY TO TAKE 'PYTHON' FROM PYTHON?
I want to destroy them with internet rage.
I am surprised in some ways that you couldn't have attracted some pro bono assistance for this cause. This is a case that I would have loved to have drafted the opposition pleadings in relation to.
Although I would hope that the media attention that should arise as a result of this application would be sufficient to cause the applicant to withdraw their application, or at the very least narrow down the specification to hosting services.
Even if the specification was narrowed down, the likelihood of confusion is still high in my view.
This is a good read on the criteria that will have to be satisfied:
http://assets.itma.org.uk/OHIM_Oppositions_based_on_Unregist...
Finally, good luck!
PS: We could send 1000 of email to that company just asking to stop the cause...
We could make a PYTHON script to send this email ten times a day...
Early in the article it says: "There is a company in the UK that is trying to trademark the use of the term "Python" for all software, services, servers... pretty much anything having to do with a computer.".
And later it says, where the Python foundation is soliciting comments: "your view that another company using term Python to refer to services, software, and servers would be confusing".
I for one hope the Python foundation doesn't get an exclusive trademark for all "software, services, servers" in the E.U. Outside of software "Python" is a well-known generic name for an animal, I don't think the EU should be protecting such generic names.
But on the other hand it would also suck if this U.K. company gained exclusive use over the trademark.
I could get the trade mark for python for software, but would be unlikely to get the mark for snake-keeping services, to give a rough example.
If your purpose is exclusive, then I can't support you. There is an open source Common Lisp implementation, originally developed at CMU in the mid-1980s, whose compiler is called Python. It is still in use. I think a compiler and a language are close enough that you have no exclusive right to the name.
However, due to the "fight for it or lose it" nature, if this company was given the trademark, they would have no choice but to threaten legal action against the PSF and everybody who produces something with Python in the name: a very large group of people, products and companies.
http://www.amazon.com/Master-Lock-Adjustable-Camouflage-8418...
Probably those companies with products with Python in its name will be interested in this. You could contact them
I'm afraid that, at least in UK and USA, you're wrong in your assumption of "fight for it or lose it".
You have to pay your registration fees and use the trademark for trade. You can allow unpaid use, you can even ignore de minimis use without any notification.
Even if it were "fight it or lose it" then it would only be for use of their mark to indicate the origin of goods or services that they could object to. If it's clear the goods don't originate with the owners of Python RTM then there is no trademark infringement (this doesn't quite apply to "famous" marks however that get extra protection).
"Fight it or lose it" sort of applies to genericisation but there's absolutely no chance that python is going to become a generic term in the software field for something other than python-the-language for the foreseeable future.
On a general issue I don't think it's right for PSF to attempt to gain a registered mark for python in the context of computing. Nor indeed should any sane TM office grant them a word mark as python is not distinct enough to indicate that goods or services originate with PSF. Indeed in terms of CTM it appears a registration is held by an individual that covers the software class already.
CERN uses Python.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=cern+python
They developed the PythonRoot package: http://alcaraz.home.cern.ch/alcaraz/PythonRoot/
It's probably of interest that this and many other Python packages have the word "Python" in the name of the package. I would hate to have to wonder whether PythonCoolPackage was for the Python language, or for interaction with some random company who chose Python as their trademark. I know that if something says Python today it's most likely to do with the language.
The EuroPython Conference is certainly about the language. There are probably other European conferences where you can assume that Python means Python.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=epc2006+python
(pdf) https://downloads.egenix.com/python/EPC2006-Developing-Unico...
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=python+conference+europe
Airbus is hiring. They want people with Python on their resume:
http://www.airbus.com/work/experienced-candidates/opportunit...
I think Python means Python in Europe.
Google results are trailered to the user based on location, search habits and so on.
http://python.org/psf/donations/
Yeah, minor as can be, but IMO when someone donates they should've have spelled their name right. I'm reporting this here because someone who can fix this is most likely reading.
PS. IMO there is not much reason to worry. Python has so many friends. Google should buy the company and close it.
I think they should go to court. I somehow miss the SCO guy and his suitcase.
And therefore make their attempted coup work, by giving them loads of money?
Makes no sense. Better fight this, make them pay legal costs, and drive them back into insignificance.
I hope our trademark office has the sense to reject this.
[1]: http://builtwith.com/python.co.uk
Am I missing something, if you go to Amazon.co.uk and search for "python" (not just in books, but a top level saerch) - (e.g. http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%...) the top results are all books about the Python programming language published in the UK.
Similarly search for "Python" on any Uk based jobs site
http://jobsearch.monster.co.uk/jobs/?q=Python&cy=uk http://www.technojobs.co.uk/search.phtml/Python/searchfield/...
(can provide many more such links if you need)
There is no doubt about what Python means.
Are there similar books in German, Italian, French, and Spanish?
French:
Apprendre à programmer avec Python 3 (Learn to program with python 3) http://www.amazon.fr/Apprendre-%C3%A0-programmer-avec-Python...
Python - Les Fondamentaux du langage (Python: foundations of the language) http://www.amazon.fr/Python-fondamentaux-langage-Nouvelle-%C...
German:
Python 3: Das umfassende Handbuch (Python 3: The Comprehensive Handbook) http://www.amazon.de/Python-umfassende-Handbuch-Galileo-Comp...
Python von Kopf bis Fuß (Python from Head to Toe) http://www.amazon.de/Python-von-Kopf-bis-Fu%C3%9F/dp/3897213...
Einstieg in Python (Starting python) http://www.amazon.de/Einstieg-Python-Programmieranf%C3%A4nge...
Spanish:
Python para administración de sistemas Unix y Linux (Python for Unix and Linux System Administration) http://www.amazon.es/Python-administraci%C3%B3n-sistemas-Ore...
Python 3 - al descubierto (Python 3 Discovered) http://www.amazon.es/Python-descubierto-Arturo-Fernandez-Mon...
Python. Guía de referencia (Python Reference Guide) http://www.amazon.es/Python-referencia-Oreilly-anaya-Multime...
Italian:
Programmazione in Python (Programming in Python) http://www.amazon.it/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1/276-0254377-1517700?...
Imparare Python (Learn Python) http://www.amazon.it/Imparare-Python-Mark-Lutz/dp/8848125956...
First ten results are about Python the language. Search not restricted to computer programming books. One of the book published in 2007.
Python in course name https://www.kth.se/student/kurser/kurs/BB3110
Python in job ad http://www.arbetsformedlingen.se/4.38a41afd11d99fbdb65800016...
I remember some other french magazine having a python introduction from a bit before.
I also have some really old SuSE CDs from that point in time with python on it.
Fortunately it was resolved. Don't know if contacting someone at TPF or Japan Perl Association might be helpful here?
TPF - http://www.perlfoundation.org
JPA - http://japan.perlassociation.org
Lestrrat (Daisuke Maki, author of the trademark blog post) contact details can be found on his MetaCPAN page - https://metacpan.org/author/DMAKI
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=python
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=python+software
[1]: http://www.gchq.gov.uk/
Maybe one of the recruitment leaflets talks about Python, but the one I saw didn't mention it.
(http://www.gchq-careers.co.uk/media/21423/gchq_technical.pdf)
> Facing some of the most complex challenges in the industry, our work ranges from small teams with each individual working the whole engineering lifecycle, through to £multi-million programmes staffed by specialist professionals cutting across industry, government and national boundaries. From Software Developers (primarily Java, JEE, C and C++), Database Developers (Oracle), Software Designers and Architects (with OO, UML) to Configuration Managers, Build and Integration Managers and more, the roles here are many and varied.
I am currently creating my own product, and the very first thing I made was to create a new name, and claim the mark. It cost me some money, but not that much compared to the risk of being in trouble with trolls.
The sad things is that by doing this, I am probably feeding the complexity of the system myself.
How did trademarks work before the Internet was there then?
Academia: Cambridge has a Python course. I think Python as a teaching language has potential to go quite far back. Historical documents could be course catalogues, slides, handouts or even exams.
Commercial training: Quick Googling brings up qa.com and learningtree.co.uk, both are in the UK and have Python training and (obviously) a commercial interest in the word retaining it's meaning. They might very well have old marketing material or invoices for Python training lying around.
http://www.ucs.cam.ac.uk/docs/course-notes/unix-courses/Pyth...
http://www.ucs.cam.ac.uk/docs/course-notes/unix-courses/Pyth...
http://www.ucs.cam.ac.uk/docs/course-notes/unix-courses/Pyth...
http://www.ucs.cam.ac.uk/docs/course-notes/unix-courses/Nume...
http://www.ucs.cam.ac.uk/docs/course-notes/unix-courses/pyth...
Since UCS at Cambridge have been teaching Python for a long time, you could request a statement of support from them: escience-support@ucs.cam.ac.uk
You offered them the limited "python cloud hosting" and they refused? Baffling. Good Luck.