25Y Male making over $250K+ annually. Still stuck. Help?
My friend is a 25Y old male with a wife and a newborn. He has a high paying salary (Over $160K+ annually), and his wife makes over $90K. His schedule is pretty flexible, and he enjoys his job although he hates his commute. They aren't a showy family. They both drive used cars, cook at home, max out their 401K, etc. However, my friend still feels "stuck". Like he hasn't accomplished what he was called to do in life. He's always working on some startup trying to become the next millionaire but continues to fail. What kind of advice can I give him?
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[ 3.4 ms ] story [ 167 ms ] threadAt a certain level how much money you make doesn't really increase our happiness (http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2010/09/07/the-perfect-salary-fo...). It's tough, without knowing him, to know what his real goals and desires are, but it seems to me like "make more money" isn't the answer.
tldr. 250K isn't that much these days when you factor taxes, child care, housing costs and student loan replayments.
His expectations are either unrealistic, or he's surrounded by people who are always doing better, despite him doing well, which makes him seem like a failure. He has the luxury of those feelings.
Silicon Valley can be a totally distorted place where there is always someone doing better. It's important to look inwards for satisfaction, and not externally, or some arbitrary barometer of success.
Plus, the people around him who appear to be winners, are often chock full of their own problems.
Your brain, like your teeth or your car, needs regular servicing by a professional if you want optimal performance and want to avoid costly repairs.
I don't know that I agree. I was fortunate to be raised by incredible parents. I emerged extremely well-adjusted and prepared for adulthood. I am not saying I never benefit from a counselor or therapist. There have been times I have visited each for help and advice, or even just to get an outside evaluation about something. But I do not need to go regularly like I would to the dentist. That's not being arrogant, that's just knowing myself.
Your brain needs regular exercise, sure. But I think it is more analogous to physical exercise than something like the dentist. I agree that most people could benefit from having a regular appointment with a physical trainer, but many people are well-equipped to be their own trainer, at least for the purpose of staying healthy and happy. I think the same is true of mental health.
I'm reminded of a relative's teeth: they might have been born with exceptional enamel, preventing all manner of early cavities, but now they lack the oral hygiene habits they need going forward.
Along those same lines: to what degree are you uncommonly well-adjusted, versus born to circumstances in which many of your foibles don't cause problems to _you_ because of the consequence buffer provided by fortuitous race, sex, orientation, class, etc.? I know I can get away with under-developed stress processing because I'm white and male and date women, for example.
I'm not saying I'm perfect, far from it. But I am well aware of my faults and fairly well aware of what I would need to do to shore them up. That doesn't mean it is easy. Like I said, I don't have any problem going to a therapist for help with something I am struggling with. But I can't imagine any situation in life where I would need to regularly visit a therapist.
Like your relative, I was gifted with great genes as far as my dental health goes. I've never had a cavity or any oral problems for that matter. Somewhere along the way I learned to take care of my teeth properly. However, I still need and benefit from regularly visiting a dentist, despite my good genes or how well equipped I am to handle my teeth on my own. I just don't feel the same about therapists, as wonderful as they can be.
"Money alone cannot buy pleasure, though it can help. For enjoyment is an art and a skill for which we have little talent or energy."
Focusing on mindfulness, and also healthy habits like regular exercise also might help. To aid with getting into a meditation practice, I ended up going to a workshop at a local Zen center, but Yoga works also. There are also an increasing number of meditation groups that are based on mindfulness meditation that's not based on any traditional practice, but rather based on the recent understanding we've arrived at with how meditation actually effects the body- look for "mindfulness based stress reduction".
I don't have nearly that sort of income but have been fighting a similar battle for a long time. It can take a little while to get through. At least the subject hasn't been completely paralyzed by lack of fulfillment, and made things work in the mean time.
I have personally used blahtherapy.com and spoken to a wonderful therapist who just after one session helped me. Sometimes we need people to frame things in a different way. We also need people who we can be fully honest with to really get the input we need. That alone is worth the investment in therapy.
frankphillips, I hope these quotes help you just a little bit, because they are very true.
“The reason we struggle with insecurity is because we compare our behind-the-scenes with everyone else's highlight reel.” —Steve Furtick.
"You'll be fine. You're 25. Feeling unsure and lost is part of your path. Don't avoid it. See what those feelings are showing you and use it. Take a breath. You'll be okay. Even if you don't feel okay all the time." - Louie CK
Not everybody feels compelled to a higher calling. In fact, I'd say most people don't. That doesn't mean life isn't worth living, it just means he hasn't found something that he can pour all of his extra energy in to.
Edited to add: Trevor Blackwell used to have something on his web site about founder's stories. I can't find it now. Basically, he was saying that people want to hear inspiring stories from founders about their "a ha" moments and how they were driven to a single goal. This is not how it works for most people. Most innovators, through hard work or happenstance, stumble upon something they have a knack for, and pursue it until they slowly, gradually push the boundaries of the possible. But that doesn't make for a good story.
No way is this SV.
I wish I had followed that advice at 25.
Your friend's young. He has plenty of time to accomplish everything he wants to (and what he wants to accomplish will change over time). Freedom comes from within. It's important that he realises that he's already enjoying his freedom to have a stable and settled life, start a family and invest in its future by buying a house and growing his 401k.
Maybe he needs to start putting a little money by every month towards a sabbatical fund so that, a few years down the line, he can afford to take 6 or 12 months off work and do the stuff he doesn't feel free to do now.
Experience is worth a tremendous amount in this industry, but you'd never realize this if you're too loyal to a single employer. Shop around, hop when it benefits you.
Most starting new-grad packages are around $100K these days in the Bay Area, and said companies would be content giving you 1% to 3% raises a year from there. To maximize your value you must change jobs.
Outside of mobile/web dev?
1) True, if it had been his own firm, he would have been a millionaire. But would he have known enough about his business at age 23 to create that same firm? I'm betting he has learned a huge amount in the last two years -- that he's much wiser and more savvy now than he was before he started this process. That wisdom will make him much better positioned to someday build his own empire than he would have been had he jumped the gun and started building without it. That's an advantage that very few 25-year-olds have.
2) OK, so his boss is a millionaire and he isn't. But what he will find as he earns more money is that there is no amount of money that is "enough." Say he goes out on his own and makes as much as his current boss does. Now he's a millionaire, but now he finds himself envious of multi-millionaires. And what he doesn't realize is that those multi-millionaires are envious of people who have hundreds of millions, and the people with hundreds of millions are envious of the people with billions... and on and on. It never ends. There is never enough.
Or as one of my favorite reads, Stephen Mitchell's translation of the Tao Te Ching (http://acc6.its.brooklyn.cuny.edu/~phalsall/texts/taote-v3.h...), puts it:
Perhaps your friend would feel some accomplishment by:
* Mentoring new startups
* Mentoring disadvantaged youth
* Religion
* Community service/projects
* Becoming involved in local government service
* Horticulture
* Woodwork/old car restoration/old computer restoration
* Adopt an elderly neighbor as a "grandparent", that he goes and speaks with on a regular (at least weekly) basis
* Read the works of the greats, genre open
* Pick up painting or other artistic ventures
* Set a goal that's a lot of fun. For example, I know of a friend who has a life goal to hike each US state's highest peak or point. He's made it about 15 in, and has a lot left to go.
* Get involved with the local Boy Scouts/Girl Scouts program (related to mentoring), if Boy Scouts go through Woodbadge (extensive leadership training)
* Join a nonprofit board
Each of these points are kind of getting at a main point: live for something. Work and career are certainly intended to be a vocation, but they aren't always going to be an avocation. When avocation and vocation conflict, I believe a lot of people get dissatisfied.
Of course, I could also be completely wrong and a therapist is advisable. But it's something to consider.
I'm not sure I would recommend religion to this person. But I wouldn't be surprised if his unhappiness comes from what he chooses to believe in some context.
In short, it's an option that's there.
About seven or eight years ago I lost my faith, and I have not found anything that quite replaces that. It's quite worthwhile, but obviously very difficult if 1) you don't actually believe what said group does, and 2) you actively dislike some of their beliefs (homophobia, etc.).
But even with all the bad stuff, I might one day join a church again.
Anyway, although it's hard to sympathize for someone that seems financially stable with a wife AND a newborn to not have a purpose in life, try surrounding him with friends and activities. What are his hobbies (besides startup life)? Tell him to watch some TED talks discussing this same thing. Hell, volunteer! The culture shock of helping those in need should make one self aware of their luck and privileges vs. immersing yourself around people who strive for the next big thing.
Firstly, you tend to live within your salary terms: you get a nice home, you spend a little more on the luxuries of life and you find each month that you don't have quite as much left over as you would expect.
You don't need to be showy for this to happen. I know people on equivalent salaries who don't own cars and live in small flats who don't have a lot of spare cash.
And then you have the freedom aspect of things that ties in with this: because you are never really sitting on a big pile of cash, and because the bills are coming in regularly you feel trapped. You need to keep on making a decent amount of money, and therefore you end up working for somebody else on something you're not too happy with in order to just stay where you are. Meanwhile, the industry moves on and you feel as though you're stuck in the same place and eventually you'll get eclipsed, so you throw yourself into staying ahead and all you're doing is running on a conveyor belt.
There's no easy fix. What I suggest for your friend is to focus on that concept of freedom.
There is a metaphorical story for your friend about a tramp and a greedy millionaire. The tramp proclaimed that he was the richer man because he had all the money he wanted, yet the millionaire was compelled to keep working because he wanted more. Who was the freer?
Live on less. Stockpile the cash. Realise you can buy a home outright with a few year's savings and be free of rent or mortgage. Move and keep stockpiling the cash. Grow food. Do more with less. Realise over time that you're spending virtually nothing and you can live on that stockpile for 5 years. Then 10 years. Then 20 years. Then realise you're free. Stop working for somebody else. Throw yourself into something you love.
I've been in a similar position to your friend - the only way out realistically is to live on less. Chasing more is a fool's errand as a first step. Make do with nothing, spend your time on something you love, and then the opportunity will arise to have the freedom to do something more.
This idea that you can become a millionaire by writing some apps or mining some Bitcoin is one of the most toxic and acidic things in our (development) culture right now.
I think this is where he fits in. When him and his wife were making only 40K combined, they carpooled to work, lived in a 700sqft apartment, barely went out, etc. Now that they got some money, they bought a decent house ($250K), 2 cars, and they started paying off loans etc. He said even though they make $250K, his monthly expenses are over $7-8K. His whole thing is that he wants to be "financially free". I think his business ideas all are focused on MAKING MONEY, hence why he keeps failing.
If he's making millions, he'll probably be buying exotic cars, and feel like a failure because he can't buy a yacht. Then he makes tens of millions, has his new toy yacht, but feels like a failure because he doesn't own a private jet.
With his current income, he should be able to live quite well. You said, he wants to be financially free. If that's his goal, why is he racking up $8k in monthly expenses? It seems like he wants to live a lavish lifestyle, that's always above his means.
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10/02/what-is-stoicism-a...
In the Bay Area, things are very expensive and its hard to put money away, and its also hard to feel like "you've won" because other folks are so dramatically more successful than you. However, after visiting home for Christmas I realized that I'm actually quite successful. So the problem is that I'm a small or medium fish in a very large pond. So I don't ever feel like I'm free because I'm not a big fish. Whats unfair is that a lot of the big fish in SF owe their size to luck. Its not that they are necessarily objectively better than the smaller fish, they just got lucky. (Granted, sometimes they are better: Elon Musk).
So, my advice to your friend would be to seek a high paying job which allows telecommuting, for both him and his wife. Then, move to somewhere livable but dirt cheap. Then, sock money away like a madman. Then, once you've got a pile of cash...stop working. Stop working for 3 years or so, enjoy that 3 years of freedom. Build something, maybe it will take off.
Thats where my thoughts are right now, it'd be great to hear an update on what he thinks about it.
EDIT: I wanted to add this follow up. One of the interesting things about this conundrum is, for me, not being as successful/free as I want creates a significant amount of stress. I worry about it far more than I should. I worry about it to the point where it has a negative impact on my ability to think clearly because my mood is so depressed...and its like being stuck in a trap because I worry I'm not successful enough, but the worry depresses me enough that I can't pursue means of being successful. Its now a question of: Can I overcome that stress in my current situation, or, are things going to have to change?
The more cash and runway you have to build something, the more cash and runway you'll use. This is not necessarily a good thing. It could lead to over-engineering, a feeling of security which keeps you from talking to users early enough, and just a lot of potential for wasting time and money in quantities you would otherwise not be comfortable with.
If you spend 3 years time and all of your savings and don't succeed, you may become further depressed and your project derailed.
FWIW, I'd suggest starting a project on the side and continuing to make incremental progress. It's hard, and doesn't always feel good, but the pressure and lack of time will push you to make things happen faster and get creative.
"I was more independent than any farmer in Concord, for I was not anchored to a house or farm, but could follow the bent of my genius, which is a very crooked one, every moment."
"This spending of the best part of one's life earning money in order to enjoy a questionable liberty during the least valuable part of it reminds me of the Englishman who went to India to make a fortune first, in order that he might return to England and live the life of a poet. He should have gone up garret at once."
"Most men, even in this comparatively free country, through mere ignorance and mistake, are so occupied with the factitious cares and superfluously coarse labors of life that its finer fruits cannot be plucked by them."
"I sometimes wonder that we can be so frivolous, I may almost say, as to attend to the gross but somewhat foreign form of servitude called Negro Slavery, there are so many keen and subtle masters that enslave both North and South."