Using your stored CC info to auto-bill you for an unrelated product that you never consented to be billed for is quite likely in violation of their merchant agreement with the CC processor.
I hope they lose more than their merchant account for this, (better: their status as a registrar, with their executives winding up in a US court)
Who approved this and were they insane?
The most ludicrous thing about it is that being Network Solutions is basically a license to print money (with industry-leading margins) because of a large legacy customer base who aren't aware or simply don't care that they've been the most expensive, rather than the only game in town for years. So you provoke them into caring?
It's like being a casino that steals from your customers. At gunpoint.
In the event a customer is actually charged for said service, it absolutely is. I have a feeling the attention they're about to garner will correct that prior to ever occurring.
Giving the amount of money charged, they move in to grand larceny territory. The fact that they had to force an enrollment means this "product" they are selling may either be non existent or not match up anywhere near what they claim it is doing.
http://www.federalreserve.gov/bankinforeg/regecg.htm They would be in violation of this above Regulation for banking. Chargeback through your bank would be the quickest way to both get your funds back and penalize them. If you want to make it a federal case that is also an option.
In theory their ToS may cover something like this, but charging a customer for a recurring payment they did not agree too should be pretty clear cut. Additionally they did send a notification prior to the charge, but there is no prior authorization from the customer so that's shaky ground. IANAL etc, legal counsel could tell you if there is a case worth pressing. I only deal with this fun at work as a developer :)
Edit: This is pretty clearly not an "error" in the system, so their legal team (if there is one) must consider the billing valid in some way.
I doubt they could do that. People are often afraid of such fine print gotcha's but would almost always would not stand up in court.
Contracts are assumed to be "In good faith, and neither for nor against any particular side". Meaning having a clause like 'oh yeah, in addition to your yearly fee of $10, we can also charge you any unlimited amount and you agree to pay'
This would be easily deemed as not in good faith and completely in favor of them (as no sane person would agree to that). Hence judge would throw it out - which may or may not invalidate the entire contract depending on how shady the judge thought they were being.
Their service agreement reads that they have the right to "change part of the Services provided under this Agreement at any time" in section 12. No doubt they're hoping that they'll be able to defend the charge based largely on this.
But there's nothing to support the idea that the "Weblock Program" is a modification of the contracted services (domain registration) instead of a separate program. A couple glaringly obvious problems:
First, the original email stated that the customer "will be protected via our WebLock Program," implying a distinction from the original services. Then there's the subject line, "Your domain is being enrolled in the WebLock Security Program," which is a fairly explicit assertion of the same.
Second, you have the addition of Schedule II to the Service Agreement clearly stating that it's a separate service and not simply a change to the existing ones offered.
In short, they don't really have any magical fine print to even point to (and that's before you start interpreting and responding to them) that can justify this new charge.
But even if they somehow prevailed on the merits of any potential contractual claims, they're still going to get chewed up by their card processor as there isn't a merchant agreement in the world that can justify this behavior.
I actually think what he did (making a big mess out of it so it ends in HN) is likely the right thing to do, it'll likely solve the issue faster and punish them more severely.
Network Solutions has always had appalling business practices that verged on the criminal. Some years ago, they poached a domain my wife had registered with another vendor, by sending her a misleading renewal letter. That particular event ultimately wound up with them at the receiving end of a class action suit.
I absolutely refuse to ever register another domain with them. Their business practices are about as evil as I've ever seen from such a mainstream company.
I prefer their other method of registering domains that you checked for whether or not they were available. They would then charge a premium to get that domain.
I don't think it happens any more. ICANN added a nonrefundable registration fee and "domain tasting" stopped being such a pervasive problem. This either solved what Net Sol was trying to protect users from, or removed the justification they were using (depending on how cynical you are).
Not sure I would ever recommend testing domain names on NetSol's WHOIS server though.
Anyone else remember "Network Solutions Sucks Balls"? (http://networksolutionssucksballs.com ended up being registered by Network Solutions under this method.)
Maybe this is the sort of fee that would have prevented that transfer. Kind of - "gee that's a nice store you have here, pity if something happened to it".
Every year without fail I keep getting a letter to my business address asking to renew my domains. Lucky I'm the one that deals with such matters so the letter can go to the correct place for such things (the shredder). But I can see how the non-technical person at a business could be fooled for transferring away their domains to a very expensive provider.
Is Network Solutions trying to lose customers? How could auto-opt-in to a program costing that much be a good idea? Does anyone have a reasonable explanation from Network Solutions about this?
$1850/year for the privilege of having extra hoops to jump through and extra lag introduced into the process of updating DNS? Where do I sign up?
Seriously, there is potential value in having extra security steps surrounding DNS changes, since that is a known attack vector. It's not clear that this is a particularly good way to provide said service, and the cost is prohibitively high for most customers.
I find it fascinating that the first year is more expensive. You'd think they'd want to do the whole "first year is cheap!" trick to catch people on the renewal.
I have an account with Network Solutions that they will not let me cancel without calling their sales team. I do not have an active credit card on file with them nor do I have any domains or hosting services. They send me e-mails every month trying to bill me for something that I haven't signed up for with language indicating that I'm about to "lose" my services (that don't exist) if I don't pay.
They're terrible.
It fascinates me because I wonder who the leadership team is and what the company culture is like. Do they decide to be terrible by sitting around in meetings brainstorming ways to screw their customers?
After quickly glancing over their credentials, it seems like the underlying problem is that the key leadership is entirely business people while the people with actual training in CS or engineering handle smaller responsibilities like "Online Marketing". In today's world of developer-friendly SaaS, they're doomed.
You don't need CS degree to understand that charging somebody automatically $1850 for something they didn't even ask is not the best idea. I won't be surprised if eventually NetSol will find itself on a receiving end of a very expensive class action suit. OTOH, by that time those C-types would have probably moved on to the next opportunity.
If you send them an email demanding your account be canceled, CC companies will usually let you use that to dispute further charges until your account is actually canceled.
They enabled auto-renewal on a domain name I have there that didn't used to have it, and want me to call a US number (i'm not in the US, i'm not paying international charges) to cancel auto renewal.
I also requested they close and delete my entire account with them.
Could you use a bitcoin notary service (like http://www.proofofexistence.com/about) and use this evidence to dispute a charge? It seems like this would be more efficient then sending a letter. Seems like this could be more reliable than an easily forged email.
I guess the point I was trying to make is that sending an email, or showing that you've sent an email also doesn't prove that they have received or read it. I think in edge cases, it's probably possible to forge that you've sent an email in the past when in reality, you've sent that email this morning.
By using something like the aforementioned service, at least you can prove without a doubt that the message was sent at a specific time, putting the impetus on the receiving party.
I once had a different service refuse to cancel my account unless I called them. Supposedly it was "for security", but I hadn't even signed up via phone, so that made no sense. I emailed their head of media relations, and said that I was going to publicize that they steal money from people. They apologized and cancelled my account in less than an hour.
I've been trying to transfer a domain name (.io) purchased from them to _another_ Network Solutions customer for business reasons. I can't even pay them to make this happen. "It isn't possible" they tell me.
Might be easier to send it to another registrar, and then let the other customer transfer it from there. Might cost a bit more but it could be the easiest way.
I always like thinking about this "company culture" question when you see the external communications from a company.
GoDaddy is very similar in that most all the emails they send are titled "ACTION REQUIRED" or another equally misleading alert. Very frustrating, builds nothing but distrust from me... like having a friend crying wolf every 10 mins.
My father is out $500 for 3 lousy domains (typical name extension coms swindles) and the typical GoDaddy "premium" services, because GoDaddy managed to find his new credit card info without him entering it.
That is GoDaddy found out the new expiration dates for his card. Seriously, they can do that. There is VISA/MC program which merchants can use to obtain new credit card information from previous customers.
Of course, it is his fault for not explicitly cancelling the domains, but GoDaddy can be an expensive lesson.
It's surprising, but some banks do enable rebills on cards regardless of the expiration date. I learned this because I have subscribers whose cards are 'expired', but the charges still go through. I needle them constantly to update their billing info, but I still have one guy with a card that expired in 2012.
More importantly, your dad shouldn't be out $500. I had some SSL certificates rebill through Godaddy at an astronomically higher rate, so I called, and was able to easily obtain a refund. If Godaddy isn't willing to offer a refund, just call your credit card company and issue a chargeback. The chargeback process greatly favors the consumer, and you're almost certain to win.
A while ago I've read on a paypal presentation on ecommerce that the expiration date isnt use for verification and can be completely false. I'm curious if this information was true and is still valid.
It's the "company culture" of a tech company on the downslide. Remember 20 years ago when NSI had a monopoly on all domain registrations and a basic .com was going to cost you $100/yr? If you can't sell something people want, sell them something they never asked for.
Some companies can make more profit by repeatedly ripping their customers off by small amounts. AT&T has done this to me repeatedly and your recourse is to call customer service and waste hours to recoup a few dollars. (And yes, I need to find another solution)
AT&T has recently tried to charge me a leasing fee for my U-verse router. I called in and explained to the person on the phone that I own the router, and referred him to my first months statement were it specifically states that I paid $160+ for the router. The man on the phone told me that their policy has changed, and they now charge leasing fees to everyone who does NOT own their own equipment. I explained to the man that I do. His answer: "As a favor to you, because you are such a long customer, I am going to waive the fee for now." It took me another 20 minutes on the phone to explain to this imbecile that I can not possibly be required to lease my own equipment from my self. His final statement to me still was: "Yes, I can see here that you own the router. Because you feel so strong about this, we are not going to require you to pay any additional equipment fees." I was fucking speechless.
What is it with telecoms? I have had issues like this too but in New Zealand. I actually beg them not to transfer me to their fault team in Manilla every time they decide its a fault I have. If I have to speak to Peachy, Pricilla or Daisy again I'll scream. I eventually found that all Telecoms here have their accounts departments within the country. So any issues I have I choose accounts to talk to. The locals have always been rational so far.
Telecoms usually a natural monopoly and relatively fixed demand: you probably don't want to dramatically increase your services so the easiest way to increase their per-customer profit is to play games with fees or bundling and cut their costs to the bone, relying on the inconvenience of switching to keep you from leaving. This ensures that you have a reason to call and that the person you reach will be the end result of multiple rounds of lowest-bidder call center deals.
You are very right. There is also this howler from Gattung, the former CEO of Telecom in New Zealand, where she discusses the use of confusion as a marketing tool.
They aren't a natural monopoly-- in the U.S. telecom and video cable (cable internet) are heavily regulated government-granted monopolies. Most U.S. local governments, for example, provide for only one or two cable providers.
“Natural monopoly” doesn't mean what you think it means: it's simply a case where the most efficient setup is a single provider. Telecoms fit this category locally because of the need for cabling to each customer – sure, you can run multiple wires but that's extremely expensive and has externalities (i.e. aesthetic costs).
Regulation is a common response to a natural monopoly: cap profits at a certain level to prevent gouging and establish some sort of minimum service requirement to avoid abuse.
What I would prefer is a hybrid model where the city runs the monopoly portion and leases access to various companies. The political process at least offers more accountability than, say, the typical Comcast monopoly victim enjoys.
I had this issue with Comcast. I didn't even buy the modem from them; I bought it from Staples, and yet, a year after I'd been with them, they decided to start trying to tack on a modem rental fee.
When I talked to their 'executive' customer service (whatever it is, the people who actually can do anything), they told me to -send them a receipt-. Are you kidding me? Why don't -you- prove that -you- own it? Where's -your- receipt? You didn't bill me for it for a year; pretty sure if we go to small claims court that will be taken as evidence in my favor.
Regardless, since I bought it from Staples, I went back to the store, told them the card I used, the day I bought it (because yay online CC histories), and they printed me off a copy of the receipt. Sent that in...got confirmation they'd remove the charge...and of course I had to call again the next month because the charge was still there.
Class action lawsuits are the only way to deal with this! I have no experience in this area, but I know this is a good, reproducible lawsuit. I am willing to be a class rap, just contact me if interested. I think lostcolony, above, has a great class action case as well. It's all small stuff, but you can hit them hard with a class action.
Just google for "supreme court" "class action" and you will find how your rights are now really limited in this regard. E.g. in 2011 the U.S. Supreme Court ruled: "an arbitration agreement prevented consumers from pursuing a class action under state law".
There have been several anti-class-action rulings by the Supreme Court.
I can think of two ways to handle this that minimize your wasted time:
1. Call in and record the idiocy. I use Skype and a headset, so I can get work done while on hold. When the rep answers and asks "Who am I speaking to?", say "This is so and so on a recorded line.", just like your stockbroker, etc. does. If their standard blurb says they "may" be recording the call for "training and quality control", then you don't have to announce anything, as the call is now recordable by either party. Collect and post these idiotic exchanges, audio and transcripts. Shame and name.
2. Bypass the call center. Look up the registered agent of the corporation in your state. Send them a very threatening letter, return receipt requested, stating the facts and your demand for whatever they are doing to stop. Give them a time limit to stop, and then threaten to sue them in small claims court. There are these standard letters all over the net. Note: whether you actually sue them eventually is beside the point, and entirely optional. Trust me, an actual lawyer will have to respond to your letter, and it will be very expensive for them. You are also on record for any future court actions, and they know that. The letter templates are easily found with google, your state secretary of state may charge a dollar or two for the address of the registered agent, and certified return receipt costs about $6. Cost on their end, probably $200 to start in attorney's time. Much easier than hanging on the phone and being served by idiots.
Australia has an easy solution: the Telecommunications Ombudsman. As soon as you raise a complaint with them the telecommunications company gets two weeks to fix things before they start getting financial penalties and having to spend time/resources fighting the complaint, so typically as soon as you have the complaint number you get escalated to the secret team with good people-skills and the power to do everything the lower support staff told you was impossible.
If your complaint has any merit they'll fix it for you because fixing it is vastly cheaper than fighting it.
> It fascinates me because I wonder who the leadership team is and what the company culture is like. Do they decide to be terrible by sitting around in meetings brainstorming ways to screw their customers?
Yes. i mean, no, because they get bonuses for every revenue they drive like that, so they won't discuss it in a meeting. They will instead gather a small band of loyals, and implement that in the dark, reporting only way up.
I know because I worked with a company that was like monster.com but charged from the poor people looking for the jobs. Companies could list the positions for free, and the people submiting to the positions had to pay. It was free the first month, but you had to give a credit card. Which WILL be charged every month unless you fight on the phone. Simply canceling on the site does absolutely nothing.
how did they handle the chargebacks? These typically can cost between say 15 and 25 per chargeback immediately to the merchant regardless of resolution?
people cancel, gets charged, did not get the job (most positions were fakes anyway), get the credit card bill, says wtf I'm still looking for a job, might as well use it now.
you'd be impressed by what unemployed people looking for a job puts themselves thru
I wouldn't work with such a company on ethics grounds.
It does seem like there's an opportunity for a company that lets companies list for free, but charges the listing company when they successfully hire a candidate. That would align the priorities of everyone involved. There would be issues with validating hires when they happen but I think that could be worked around.
You shouldn't be surprised when people choose not to have LinkedIn profiles. I quit LinkedIn because they were spamming me. They were also selling spamming privileges (or InMail) to anyone willing to pay. The user experience is below average, the groups are pathetic, and recommendations have become essentially worthless.
So really, having a LinkedIn profile isn't obligatory.
I commented a while back on LinkedIn spam, and got the distinct feeling I was an odd one out here (and that it was up to me to filter their crap out). Their service provided me with the contact details of someone who damaged my car - and calling his employer got things rolling fast after weeks on inaction. However the LinkedIn spam still tracks me down occasionally months after fleeing the service.
I have hidden my LinkedIn account and removed all subscriptions. They still spam me. I am considering cancelling it altogether. Haven't quite brought myself to that action yet, but not sure why. I haven't used it regularly ever and haven't logged in in two or three years.
Exactly this. I checked all of the do not email me and do not make my profile visible options, and it hardly made a difference. I intend to remove my account too when I get around to it,
Don't worry, they'll still spam you after you quit. The only way I've ever found to stop them emailing an address is to add it as a secondary contact to another account.
If you're the CEO of such a well-known company, I'm not sure what additional value Linkedin really would provide. He probably has tons of connections already.
You cannot even cancel an auto-renew for a single domain without having to call into a call center, sit on hold, and then go through the various levels of scripts that drones read to you.
>It fascinates me because I wonder who the leadership team is and what the company culture is like. Do they decide to be terrible by sitting around in meetings brainstorming ways to screw their customers?
This fascinates me as well! But I don't think it's anything that dramatic. I think that a company like Network Solutions is a cash cow in the technical sense, so their people are probably under impossible pressure to "grow" what is a mature business. Then they do things like this and hope the customers don't notice - because 99% of the time, they don't.
NetSol needs ot learn from banks and insurance companies, who've turned frog boiling into a fine art. They know precisely how much to take away from you before you hit the road. (which is weird especially with banks since they are dead simple to switch - and longevity with a bank means nothing to your credit score even if you try to take a loan from that bank.)
I do not have an active credit card on file with them
Be careful. If they charge an inactive card, it is possible that after some investigative work the charge will be moved to an active card along with additional fees.
After being fed up with them by trying to close my account that had a single unused '.it' domain, I finally figured out how to cut the ties. Without playing their games. I changed my name[1], phone, home address, email[2], and used a testing CC number[3].
Call it a hack, but I haven't heard from them since. For once, I was actually glad their sales team was much stronger than their tech.
[1]: To "Why won't you let my cancel my account here??"
Network Solutions has been doing other unethical things for years. I used to search for available domains using Network Solutions to only find that the domain instantly had become inaccessible to purchase. I later found out they were buying the domain people were searching for , for a period of 5 days so that you wont be able to purchase it from anyone else. very shady
Is that still true? I though ICANN now charge some nominal fee (12c? 20c?) for domains even if you don't keep the registration past the 4 or 5 day "grace period"? (Not that it'd stop a truly evil registrar - if you can occasionally sell ~$10 worth of front-run domains for $39 or $69, you'd still be making money on 2% "conversion rates"…)
How many domains are we talking about? It's one thing if it's $1,850 for one, another if it's 100 domains at $18.50 each. Not that I'm defending Network Solutions' horrible business practices here.
My hand's up. In 1996 there was of course no choice, and after that I just never had real cause to switch. Eventually I probably will. All new domains, of course, go through Joker. I like their hapless Deuglish.
Yeah, but they're not very good at it, so they want to charge $1,350/year plus an extra $500 per year for the first year for the privilege of getting them to do their job.
Has to be other HN readers who have gotten similar emails if this is true (I know their twitter support person confirmed it is real, but the price seems completely outrageous to be true). Looking forward to the first person with 200 domains registered there to write here that they got auto-enrolled for a cool 100k a year?
I'm glad to see he's transferring to hover.com. I moved my domains there a little over a year ago and couldn't be happier. I didn't have issues with NS but had a lot of issues with Register.com doing shady things like this.
Hover.com is about first domain registrar I've used that didn't feel shady as far as milking every last dollar they could out of me. Trying to up sell, etc.
I liked Namecheap, but have had major issues with their DNS service. you can't switch off of them without downtime. So don't use their dns, otherwise you are locked in. which is kinda shitty.
> I liked Namecheap, but have had major issues with their DNS service. you can't switch off of them without downtime.
That doesn't make any sense. As long as you set up the proper records in your new DNS provider prior to switching nameservers, there'll be no interruption.
It sounds like you switched nameservers first, assuming the records would just transfer over?
Namecheap controls both the domain name settings and the dns (if you use theirs). The moment you switch the nameservers for the domain, they immediately purge the records from their DNS.
So, when you point to new nameservers, anyone pointing to namecheap's dns during propagation will get SERVFAIL.
It sounds absurd... but I've gone back and forth with support about it, with no solution.
Interesting tip. I'm taking away the fact that I should transfer the nameservers away immediately after buying/transferring a domain (for Cloudfront, I presume?). Other than that, and ColdFusion hacks aside, my experience with them has also been fantastic.
Seconded. They are a bit more expensive, but to me it's worth it. On the negative side their control panel is subpar, but there are tutorials to side-step that.
I'll jump on the Gandi bandwagon. Great customer service, communications when things go down, support for IPv6 and DNSSEC, an easy-to-understand API, reasonable prices. I am really happy with them. Just transferred the last of my domains from GoDaddy last month, and I'll be off Dotster before the end of this month. (I left Network Solutions a long time ago, and good riddance.)
I agree. The few domains I have there, I'm really happy about. I love how it really focuses on domains first.
However, with the email service, google apps, and web forwarding, I'm a little concerned they'll start up-selling ssl, hosting, seo, website builders, etc, etc, etc, etc.
I think it would be hard NOT to do this as a domain registrar given how it probably feels like you're just leaving money on the table by not selling all these other related services.
I'm so glad I cancelled my Network Solutions account 2 months ago. I discovered they were still charging me for a domain I no longer was interested in. Unlike most other domain name registrars, they actually auto opt-in for automatic renewal.
Pissed me off to no end. To cancel, I had to :
1) Find out that you cannot delete your domains or let them lapse. Gotta call them.
2) Call them. They will tell you to send an email instead
3) Email them at deletions@networksolutions.com.
4) Get a confirmation email, which you have to call in to verify.
I ended up cancelling my account after 4 phone calls.
is't it the registrar we are talking about, who would register a domain name himself, if you search it using their website. Only to find, you would have no choice for 5 days except to register it with them or wait for 5 days to register with someone else. 'douchebag' is seemingly an innocent word for this kind of business.
>Back in December, the domain registration and hosting company tested a new system that would automatically register any domains searched for by users of its site. That system went live last weekend, meaning users doing a search found the domain they wanted became unavailable and held by Network Solutions shortly afterwards.
I've begun taking over volunteer webmaster duties for a non-profit beekeeping association (made up of non-technical >= middle-aged folks) with domain reg and hosting through network solutions. I spent an hour on the phone with NS getting to the bottom of some things and got pretty appalled fairly quick. If the org hadn't renewed their setup with NS a month prior to my stepping in, I would have canceled everything on the spot. In addition to a couple other points, they charge double what godaddy charges for a .us domain. (~$40 vs. ~$20).
OP says he will be transferring his domains elsewhere. Seems like he is in for more suffering before that happens [1]:
A Phone Call is REQUIRED for Domain Transfers from Network Solution to Other Registrars
.. Transferring a Domain from Network Solutions to another provider requires the Primary Account Contact to make a phone call to Network Solutions technical support (average time 10 to 30 minutes).
.. Use of the Network Solutions website procedure to obtain a Transfer Code, by the Account Primary Contact, requires a minimum 3 days wait.
A client of mine transferred away several dozen domains last year - it did not require a phone call.
OTOH, I had a single domain a few years ago there and I had to call in to transfer. I still have 2 domains there and I suspect I'll need to call to transfer.
I finally got rid of my last domain on network solutions. There's a form for requesting the authorization code, but despite submitting it out multiple times on various occasions I never received anything. The support docs indicated buttons that didn't exist. I finally called support and they gave me the code right away - at which point the transfer button mentioned in the support docs magically appeared for my domain.
I found it annoying but the guy I spoke with was pretty cool on the phone and didn't hassle me at all about the domain or selling me other products.
I just moved away from Network Solutions. Their scumbag business practices just keep getting worse. "Auto renewing" your domains and forcing you to call in to turn off auto-renew was bad enough.
How many years - the domain appears to have only been developed in 2012?
FWIW they also appear to be breaking European law by not displaying their trading/registered offices address on their website.
Crazydomains.co.uk seems to be a non-registered trading name (ie it's not lodged with Companies House) for DreamScape Networks FZ-LLC. That company is apparently based in UAE?
>"auDA has found that accredited registrar Crazy Domains Pty Ltd has breached its obligations under the Registrar Agreement to comply with the .au Domain Name Suppliers’ Code of Practice and all applicable laws."
joker.com has pretty good reseller prices. end user prices are mostly a bit higher than other registrars tho, but if you have a bunch of domain names, it may be worth a look.
I was thinking this exact thing. I didnt even realize they were still in business. Although they sound more like a Jesse Willms scam now than a real business.
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[ 3.3 ms ] story [ 330 ms ] threadWho approved this and were they insane?
The most ludicrous thing about it is that being Network Solutions is basically a license to print money (with industry-leading margins) because of a large legacy customer base who aren't aware or simply don't care that they've been the most expensive, rather than the only game in town for years. So you provoke them into caring? It's like being a casino that steals from your customers. At gunpoint.
Edit: This is pretty clearly not an "error" in the system, so their legal team (if there is one) must consider the billing valid in some way.
Full legal text http://www.fdic.gov/regulations/laws/rules/6500-1350.html
Edit 2: A compliant either though your local attorney general or the FTC may be appropriate. http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0341-file-complaint-ftc
I doubt they could do that. People are often afraid of such fine print gotcha's but would almost always would not stand up in court.
Contracts are assumed to be "In good faith, and neither for nor against any particular side". Meaning having a clause like 'oh yeah, in addition to your yearly fee of $10, we can also charge you any unlimited amount and you agree to pay'
This would be easily deemed as not in good faith and completely in favor of them (as no sane person would agree to that). Hence judge would throw it out - which may or may not invalidate the entire contract depending on how shady the judge thought they were being.
Their service agreement reads that they have the right to "change part of the Services provided under this Agreement at any time" in section 12. No doubt they're hoping that they'll be able to defend the charge based largely on this.
But there's nothing to support the idea that the "Weblock Program" is a modification of the contracted services (domain registration) instead of a separate program. A couple glaringly obvious problems:
First, the original email stated that the customer "will be protected via our WebLock Program," implying a distinction from the original services. Then there's the subject line, "Your domain is being enrolled in the WebLock Security Program," which is a fairly explicit assertion of the same.
Second, you have the addition of Schedule II to the Service Agreement clearly stating that it's a separate service and not simply a change to the existing ones offered.
In short, they don't really have any magical fine print to even point to (and that's before you start interpreting and responding to them) that can justify this new charge.
But even if they somehow prevailed on the merits of any potential contractual claims, they're still going to get chewed up by their card processor as there isn't a merchant agreement in the world that can justify this behavior.
Impossible for me to believe they are actually doing this. And auto charging the credit card.
Something doesn't add up with this.
I absolutely refuse to ever register another domain with them. Their business practices are about as evil as I've ever seen from such a mainstream company.
Not sure I would ever recommend testing domain names on NetSol's WHOIS server though.
Sadly, no longer the case.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=96408
Seriously, there is potential value in having extra security steps surrounding DNS changes, since that is a known attack vector. It's not clear that this is a particularly good way to provide said service, and the cost is prohibitively high for most customers.
We've already signed you up! Please find the attached invoice.
They're terrible.
It fascinates me because I wonder who the leadership team is and what the company culture is like. Do they decide to be terrible by sitting around in meetings brainstorming ways to screw their customers?
They have a Chief People Officer.
They enabled auto-renewal on a domain name I have there that didn't used to have it, and want me to call a US number (i'm not in the US, i'm not paying international charges) to cancel auto renewal.
I also requested they close and delete my entire account with them.
(Not suggesting they do this... but if they think you owe them money, they certainly could)
By using something like the aforementioned service, at least you can prove without a doubt that the message was sent at a specific time, putting the impetus on the receiving party.
GoDaddy is very similar in that most all the emails they send are titled "ACTION REQUIRED" or another equally misleading alert. Very frustrating, builds nothing but distrust from me... like having a friend crying wolf every 10 mins.
I checked "don't automatically renew" when I first signed up.
I removed my credit card a month ago, when I realized it had been saved.
My father is out $500 for 3 lousy domains (typical name extension coms swindles) and the typical GoDaddy "premium" services, because GoDaddy managed to find his new credit card info without him entering it.
That is GoDaddy found out the new expiration dates for his card. Seriously, they can do that. There is VISA/MC program which merchants can use to obtain new credit card information from previous customers.
Of course, it is his fault for not explicitly cancelling the domains, but GoDaddy can be an expensive lesson.
More importantly, your dad shouldn't be out $500. I had some SSL certificates rebill through Godaddy at an astronomically higher rate, so I called, and was able to easily obtain a refund. If Godaddy isn't willing to offer a refund, just call your credit card company and issue a chargeback. The chargeback process greatly favors the consumer, and you're almost certain to win.
http://publicaddress.net/3147
Edit: Forgot the link. Duh...
Regulation is a common response to a natural monopoly: cap profits at a certain level to prevent gouging and establish some sort of minimum service requirement to avoid abuse.
What I would prefer is a hybrid model where the city runs the monopoly portion and leases access to various companies. The political process at least offers more accountability than, say, the typical Comcast monopoly victim enjoys.
When I talked to their 'executive' customer service (whatever it is, the people who actually can do anything), they told me to -send them a receipt-. Are you kidding me? Why don't -you- prove that -you- own it? Where's -your- receipt? You didn't bill me for it for a year; pretty sure if we go to small claims court that will be taken as evidence in my favor.
Regardless, since I bought it from Staples, I went back to the store, told them the card I used, the day I bought it (because yay online CC histories), and they printed me off a copy of the receipt. Sent that in...got confirmation they'd remove the charge...and of course I had to call again the next month because the charge was still there.
I'm really tired of these freaking monopolies.
Just google for "supreme court" "class action" and you will find how your rights are now really limited in this regard. E.g. in 2011 the U.S. Supreme Court ruled: "an arbitration agreement prevented consumers from pursuing a class action under state law".
There have been several anti-class-action rulings by the Supreme Court.
1. Call in and record the idiocy. I use Skype and a headset, so I can get work done while on hold. When the rep answers and asks "Who am I speaking to?", say "This is so and so on a recorded line.", just like your stockbroker, etc. does. If their standard blurb says they "may" be recording the call for "training and quality control", then you don't have to announce anything, as the call is now recordable by either party. Collect and post these idiotic exchanges, audio and transcripts. Shame and name.
2. Bypass the call center. Look up the registered agent of the corporation in your state. Send them a very threatening letter, return receipt requested, stating the facts and your demand for whatever they are doing to stop. Give them a time limit to stop, and then threaten to sue them in small claims court. There are these standard letters all over the net. Note: whether you actually sue them eventually is beside the point, and entirely optional. Trust me, an actual lawyer will have to respond to your letter, and it will be very expensive for them. You are also on record for any future court actions, and they know that. The letter templates are easily found with google, your state secretary of state may charge a dollar or two for the address of the registered agent, and certified return receipt costs about $6. Cost on their end, probably $200 to start in attorney's time. Much easier than hanging on the phone and being served by idiots.
If your complaint has any merit they'll fix it for you because fixing it is vastly cheaper than fighting it.
Yes. i mean, no, because they get bonuses for every revenue they drive like that, so they won't discuss it in a meeting. They will instead gather a small band of loyals, and implement that in the dark, reporting only way up.
I know because I worked with a company that was like monster.com but charged from the poor people looking for the jobs. Companies could list the positions for free, and the people submiting to the positions had to pay. It was free the first month, but you had to give a credit card. Which WILL be charged every month unless you fight on the phone. Simply canceling on the site does absolutely nothing.
you'd be impressed by what unemployed people looking for a job puts themselves thru
It does seem like there's an opportunity for a company that lets companies list for free, but charges the listing company when they successfully hire a candidate. That would align the priorities of everyone involved. There would be issues with validating hires when they happen but I think that could be worked around.
CEO appears not to have a linkedin page (really?) CFO: www.linkedin.com/pub/kevin-carney/a/494/713 CPO: www.linkedin.com/pub/roseann-duran/0/66a/971
... it goes on https://www.web.com/aboutus/leadership.aspx
they're publicly traded: http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=WWWW Would be interesting if Yahoo ran this on their finance news site.
You shouldn't be surprised when people choose not to have LinkedIn profiles. I quit LinkedIn because they were spamming me. They were also selling spamming privileges (or InMail) to anyone willing to pay. The user experience is below average, the groups are pathetic, and recommendations have become essentially worthless.
So really, having a LinkedIn profile isn't obligatory.
I've just stopped caring what people think anymore. It's become a 'the blind leading the blind' sort of thing.
I consider LinkedIn less than worthless.
It is clearly designed to bill you to death.
This fascinates me as well! But I don't think it's anything that dramatic. I think that a company like Network Solutions is a cash cow in the technical sense, so their people are probably under impossible pressure to "grow" what is a mature business. Then they do things like this and hope the customers don't notice - because 99% of the time, they don't.
NetSol needs ot learn from banks and insurance companies, who've turned frog boiling into a fine art. They know precisely how much to take away from you before you hit the road. (which is weird especially with banks since they are dead simple to switch - and longevity with a bank means nothing to your credit score even if you try to take a loan from that bank.)
Be careful. If they charge an inactive card, it is possible that after some investigative work the charge will be moved to an active card along with additional fees.
http://domainnamewire.com/2014/01/21/network-solutions-auto-...
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7104424
Call it a hack, but I haven't heard from them since. For once, I was actually glad their sales team was much stronger than their tech.
[1]: To "Why won't you let my cancel my account here??"
[2]: mailinator.com
[3]: getcreditcardnumbers.com
I'll be transferring all my domains (only a couple, most are with Namecheap these days) + any domains my family/friends have with NS out today.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Solutions#Controversy_o...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain_tasting
got so bad in the mid-2000's that it was best just to buy the domain if you even thought you wanted it.
What, exactly, is that $1350 / year supposed to pay for ?
I got an email from Network Solutions — where I still have two domains, originally registered in the ’90s
(see this for an example of them not being good at their job: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2053380/network-solutions-inv... )
I wouldn't consider registering a domain with NetSol and wouldn't hesitate to remove any domains they house from them.
Hover.com is about first domain registrar I've used that didn't feel shady as far as milking every last dollar they could out of me. Trying to up sell, etc.
That doesn't make any sense. As long as you set up the proper records in your new DNS provider prior to switching nameservers, there'll be no interruption.
It sounds like you switched nameservers first, assuming the records would just transfer over?
So, when you point to new nameservers, anyone pointing to namecheap's dns during propagation will get SERVFAIL.
It sounds absurd... but I've gone back and forth with support about it, with no solution.
However, with the email service, google apps, and web forwarding, I'm a little concerned they'll start up-selling ssl, hosting, seo, website builders, etc, etc, etc, etc.
I think it would be hard NOT to do this as a domain registrar given how it probably feels like you're just leaving money on the table by not selling all these other related services.
Pissed me off to no end. To cancel, I had to :
1) Find out that you cannot delete your domains or let them lapse. Gotta call them.
2) Call them. They will tell you to send an email instead
3) Email them at deletions@networksolutions.com.
4) Get a confirmation email, which you have to call in to verify.
I ended up cancelling my account after 4 phone calls.
>Back in December, the domain registration and hosting company tested a new system that would automatically register any domains searched for by users of its site. That system went live last weekend, meaning users doing a search found the domain they wanted became unavailable and held by Network Solutions shortly afterwards.
link: http://www.geek.com/news/controversy-surrounds-network-solut...
scaring old people with threats into paying recurring premiums for absolutely nothing besides their own corporate incompetence.
Also, kids, this is why you change your credit card info every year, at least.
A Phone Call is REQUIRED for Domain Transfers from Network Solution to Other Registrars
.. Transferring a Domain from Network Solutions to another provider requires the Primary Account Contact to make a phone call to Network Solutions technical support (average time 10 to 30 minutes).
.. Use of the Network Solutions website procedure to obtain a Transfer Code, by the Account Primary Contact, requires a minimum 3 days wait.
(EDIT: Formatting)
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Solutions#Network_Solut...
These instructions worked for me: https://help.hover.com/entries/21240798-How-to-Transfer-a-do...
This requires patience; it took 2 days to receive my transfer code from Network Solutions but I did not need to make any phone calls.
OTOH, I had a single domain a few years ago there and I had to call in to transfer. I still have 2 domains there and I suspect I'll need to call to transfer.
I found it annoying but the guy I spoke with was pretty cool on the phone and didn't hassle me at all about the domain or selling me other products.
FWIW they also appear to be breaking European law by not displaying their trading/registered offices address on their website.
Crazydomains.co.uk seems to be a non-registered trading name (ie it's not lodged with Companies House) for DreamScape Networks FZ-LLC. That company is apparently based in UAE?
http://www.auda.org.au/news/breach-of-registrar-agreement-by... :
>"auDA has found that accredited registrar Crazy Domains Pty Ltd has breached its obligations under the Registrar Agreement to comply with the .au Domain Name Suppliers’ Code of Practice and all applicable laws."
UK branch may be no better ...
http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Crazy-Domains/internet/Crazy-D...
Caveat emptor.
Talk about blast from the past. I remember having conversations about how awful NetSol was on /. in 1998-99.