Regarding your first point, I find that if I am writing I need to change my work location every few weeks (or sometimes even more often). I become acclimated to the location and I become more prone to slacking off/day dreaming. Something the fresh location helps me a lot.
It is good to be in an environment where others are hard at work because you'll be less likely to screw around.
There is tons of psych research on the effect of isolation on humans. Basically, it drives you insane. It is literally a form of torture. We are social creatures, designed to live in packs and tribes. Even an antisocial human is a relatively social creature.
It isn't easy to believe this until you've tried it. But I spent a year working out of my home office, and now I have a cubicle in an office again, and it is astonishing how much happier and more productive I am when I'm surrounded by other people, even if -- indeed, especially if -- they don't interact with me very much.
Of course, there is plenty of other research (not to mention lots of anecdotes from folks like PG) on the benefits of not being interrupted when you're trying to program. So what you really want is the library, where there are fellow humans around, but nobody will approach you or even speak in a loud voice. (Or perhaps you want a fishbowl office like the one Joel Spolsky built, where you can see lots of other people but you can't hear them.)
I have found that weird. I'm a huge loner and don't particularly need to talk to someone on a regular basis, but I get messed up if I'm not at least around people a lot. That's the exact reason Starbucks is my second home right now.
About the no interruptions - I can't remember the last time someone's interrupted my at Starbucks. But that could be that I always have my headphones on and have my eyes fixated on my laptop screen or book.
I think the issue with $coffee-shop is not that someone will interrupt you directly (e.g. talk to you), but that a commotion in the background will interrupt you
Having a small commute is great, but having no separation between your work and living spaces kind of sucks. I find that working out allows me to be more relaxed when I get back home. If I work from home, I tend not feel like I completed the work day.
I agree. Working at home also gives you the opportunity to use a full size keyboard, use multiple (or large) monitors, and more. And you save tons on the price of coffee (and can often have even better coffee once you learn how).
This works best if you can have a separate room as your office, however.
I "work from home" at least two days a week. I often head to one of the two nearby libraries to work for a couple hours, mostly just to change my environment. Despite all the books and a few roaming kids, it's less distracting than being at home. Plus, I hate the smell of burning coffee at most cafes.
For some reason our local libraries block instant messengers, some webmail (but not https Gmail), and VPN connections. If it weren't for our http/https VPN setup, I wouldn't be able to do any online work there.
They also have few laptop-friendly seats. The big library near me has just two grown-up sized tables and you usually have to squeeze onto a table with a couple others. The smaller library has 8 study cubicles, most without power outlets, but it also has a park next to it where you can catch the wifi from some picnic tables.
- Pets
- TV
- Fridge/Pantry
- Kids/Wife/Husband/Roommates
Beyond that, there are many opportunities for your non-work life to interrupt your work life. It's a culture thing, being that there is absolutely no work culture at your home where there is one at a place with others.
I'm actually in the process of setting up a coworking facility down here in Atlanta. We're going to have two rooms to satisfy both camps: The Loud Room and The Quiet Room. Each caters to a specific goal and lets people use the space they want to without inconveniencing others. It's sort of a coffee shop next to a library. Best of both worlds :)
I love working at the Georgia Tech library. Open 24/7 during the business week and it's nice and quite. It's one of the greatest perks of going to Georgia Tech for me.
Edit: Well, I totally misinterpreted what the author meant by "work at". This'll teach me to RTFA I guess.
FWIW, GT's library does rock. They have quiet area as well as group areas and a great set of workstations as well. The only thing missing is a decent coffee machine.
Just worked at the Library yesterday. Hearing a few kids laughing and looking at books is WAY better than hearing the espresso machine chatter from people in line.
For me it's the blenders that drive me insane. I don't mind some background chatter and often listen to music anyway, but those damn blenders cut through earpieces and drive me a bit mad.
Still, I do enjoy it from time to time as a change of pace. Mostly I've started working at our local co-working place in Rochester - unlimited coffee, no worries about leaving your laptop if you need to run an errand, etc.
Places like Starbucks and Borders charge for Wi-Fi access
Not entirely true. Borders is probably the only place I know that still charges for wifi. Everywhere else it is either free or you get two hours free by entering some kind of code.
Starbucks has a pretty annoying card registration thing, but once you do that, the internet is usually hassle-free. Also, even though everyone seems to cite this two hour limit (I have too), in practice I've never seen my internet connection actually expire--and I spend a good amount of time in Starbucks. Headed to one right now, in fact...
Last night I reached 1337 karma points (got a screenshot at 1338) and started asking friends of mine to downvote me. I could not find anyone with a 100+ karma to do it. Then I resorted then to a bland trolling campaign (as trollish as possible without ruining HN), that mostly backfired because now I need 50+ downvotes. This phase is more or less neutral - many downvotes and many upvotes (go figure!) and about 0 change.
I think the last phase is to ask pg to downvote me himself, but that's kinda cheating.
I've found that the quietest library on my campus is the Law library. Very few undergrad groups studying there (which is usually what causes noise I've found).
It's strange that he listed "Phone calls" as one of the reasons he loves working at the library. If you read the explanation, it's a wash in terms of coffee house v. library in this category.
One downside of the library is that it's often not convenient to grab a cup of coffee or snack. The main branch in SF has a cafe, but it's way in the basement. The Chinatown branch doesn't have any food or drinks.
San Jose's MLK library lets you bring drinks and food, with some restrictions. There is also a decent coffee shop on the ground floor. The down side is the large number of homeless hitting you up for money, the fragrant bathrooms, and some SJSU students who can be a little inconsiderate about noise / cell phones. Still, if you need a quiet place with internet to work, I'd recommend it.
Within walking distance of me, there are 3 libraries that have a place that serves coffee.
(Carnegie Library Oakland, Carnegie Mellon Hunt, and Pitt Hillman, if you must know.)
In addition, all of them are surrounded by coffee places, so you can stretch your legs, get a coffee, maybe work at the coffee shop for a change of pace, then return to the library for better concentration. I have studied for exams and worked on long projects this way.
A former office mate and I would often run through all the options we had for coffee. The coffee maker in our office and the beans my office mate ordered from Hawaii. The sludge in the lounge coffee maker. Walk down the hall to the department's espresso vending machine (which makes surprisingly good latte's). The stand selling coffee and espresso one building over. Or walk about a block to the two coffee shops across the street from each other (Starbuck's and a local place).
Is coffee culture taken to such extreme in other places, or is this a Pittsburgh thing?
With regards to the noise and chatter in coffee shops (or the lack of thereof in libraries) - try using noise-canceling headphones and a bit of music of your choice. I was really surprised how well these headphones muffle all external sound. Though you do need some music, because otherwise the silence becomes distracting :)
during grad school I always found myself getting a real sensory deprivation rush when I went to the library at night to study. Great idea to explore the library as a working environment again now that i'm in the working world. Now i just need to find libraries that are open late.
If you're trying to get some work done in Manhattan, give up trying to find a cafe with a seat, and hit the Rose Reading Room at the NYPL. Free wifi, lots of outlets, and it's freakin dramatically gorgeous.
And if you're in Boston the BPL in Copley Square has a similarly beautiful and useful room. And despite now living thousands of miles away I still see fit to always carry my BPL card. It's been on me for over twenty years at this point and features my childhood-era signature. Can't let go. :)
Thanks for that. I go to the BPL all the time and had no idea that room existed! :0
My two complaints about Copley BPL is that they don't have nearly enough outlets for laptops, and their WiFi can be spotty in places. Of course, maybe Bates Hall will solve all those problems... ;)
They're good with the homeless too. Security guards walk all over that place constantly and wake anyone up who's sleeping. The bathrooms though, arg, across the street to Starbucks please. :)
Ooh, that looks awesome. Anybody have any similar suggestions for D.C./Arlington? I'm moving there soon, and while I'm still unemployed, I may as well find a gorgeous place to hang out and work on job apps and programming projects.
Hmm. Thanks for the tips. I had no idea there were scammers who preyed upon coffee shop patrons. Maybe they're taking advantage of the relative southern friendliness of D.C.? I don't think that sort of thing exists in Portland (my last digs), a friendly, but still very northern, city.
Thanks for the tip. I'm moving to Long Island City next month so this should be a great place to go to. I assume they don't allow food, but do you know if they allow beverages at the tables? My local library allows that which has been great for me. I usually need something to drink or munch on while working or I get antsy.
EDIT: Ah man. It closes at 6pm alot of the nights. I usually like working later than that.
I bet we can find a similar place to get some work done later then 6-8pm. I'm in the same boat as you, and I'll start searching for a viable late-night quiet spot.
I have done this. Tried starbucks but the music was what was killing the concentration. So went to the library. But it is too small, so more than one day in a row and you feel like you are sticking out. Next time will likely go http://www.library.northwestern.edu/ where I have a card.
Worth noting that not every B&N has an “upstairs”. Indeed, most of the B&Ns I’ve been to have been 1 story, though the ones in large, wealthy, shopping areas have been 2.
We ran our Chicago office from the Oak Park Public Library for something like 5-6 months. There was a credible coffee shop on the first floor, and the library allowed drinks. Free wi-fi. Desks. For meetings, we could book private study rooms for 1-2 hours on almost no notice.
The only real downside to the library was that you couldn't get on the phone during the day without going outside.
The nicest thing about the library is that it works well exactly up to the point where you need and can afford an office.
Unlike the coffee shops, which mostly lose out by being packed full of people who buy one cup of coffee per hour, the library basically exists for the purpose of providing a quiet space for knowledge work. You fund it with your taxes. Library architecture in most metro areas is excellent. You should work out of the library.
Innovative advice; do you know how the library staff felt about it? Did they know?
Also, I read your last sentence as "You should work out in the library," and imagined laying down under a cart full of large hardcover volumes, trying to grunt very quietly while pressing it. Just sayin'.
The library staff definitely knew about it. I felt bad originally for booking private study rooms for work, and not "private study"; I was vigorously assured that I shouldn't feel guilty for doing so.
Two things to realize:
(1) The library staff is a lot more nervous about the library being empty than they are about it being full. Something about busy libraries being the reason they get paid.
(2) If libraries have headache clientele, it's the homeless. I had no idea what a mess that situation was until I started going to the library every day.
The library staff is a lot more nervous about the library being empty than they are about it being full.
This I can attest to.
At our local public library there's a lady who is constantly picking up and re-shelving kids books only to have some kids take a bunch out and toss most of them on the table or the floor.
When I asked her if she wasn't frustrated, she said counter-intuitively that she's actually happy to come in to the section and find a ton of books to re-shelve.
While I'm not claiming to speak for all library employees, I worked for a public library for about six years* , including some time when wireless internet access was relatively novel. Someone camping out with a laptop wasn't a problem, even all day, provided they weren't being noisy (cell phones!), downloading porn, or otherwise being a nuisance. Actually, people who bring their own computers are probably a lot less trouble for staff, who may be busy keeping of track of whose turn it is next on the public computers, helping adults figure out how to file taxes online, etc.
The staff (and/or branch policy) ultimately decide what to do if a group of people is obviously using the library as a kind of temporary office, and they may request you make more formal arrangements. (The branches I worked at always had back rooms that could be rented out to tutors.) With several people, noise may be an issue. Still, one person typing, or two or three people working with occasional quiet collaboration is probably on par with a couple teenagers studying together. Just be considerate.
Libraries are paid for with tax dollars, and (as tptacek noted) staff are generally more nervous about empty libraries. Branch funding is often closely tied to usage stats - people coming through the door each day, circulation, internet station sessions, etc.
Also, depending on the neighborhood, the staff are probably more worried about drunk and/or mentally ill street people, misbehaving teenagers, etc. (Oh, the stories...)
The big problem with working in a library is theft. You always have to carry your valuables around. If you want to take a wiz you have to pack your laptop, coat (in winter), cell phone, etc. each time.
But if you're in a group or rent a lockable study room, it's less complicated.
Library is usually much bigger, the trip to take a leak longer and more time-consuming, and the presence of other people much less physically dense. With a coffee shop there's a very, very narrow window of time in which someone can take your stuff, and it would be in full view of a much higher number of people per square meter than would be the case in a library. In many coffee shops, much of the customer floor space is within the field of vision of staff.
Oh, yeah, and fewer exits. The coffee shops I go to all have one exit, so if I want to go outside and grab a phone call, I just keep an eye on the exit. There's no other way anybody's leaving with my stuff.
So, while probability of theft may be higher in a coffee shop, it's rather harder to pull off, logistically.
I can't help imagining someone watching when you're off to take a leak, then walks to your stuff, packs it up and walks out. half a minute is probably enough to grab the most valuable item in sight.
Are you still in Chicago, Thomas? I have a house in Oak Park (and go to OPPL about once a week when I'm in the city.)
Didn't the fluorescent lighting (weird, flowery lighting fixtures) and homeless guys bother you? Or the kids that fight/argue and get kicked out by the security guards?
I definitely work better in the library than in coffee shops, but I'm too spoiled to do it full-time now. My concentration isn't what it used to be.
Another huge plus for libraries: many of them have conference and meeting rooms that you can book for free.
If you're in the Bay Area, mid-Peninsula, the San Carlos library has rooms with whiteboards. Plus, it's only a ten minute drive to the likes of EA, Oracle, etc.
Food and drink at coffee shops is ridiculously overpriced. And some libraries allow outside food or drink, so you can just pack a sandwich and thermos with you.
Seriously, you're eating $3 slices of pound cake and drinking $4 coffees when for that amount of money you can have ham sandwiches for a week?
My problem with working in a coffee shop/library/anywhere is that I can only use my laptop, and not my nice 22" dual monitor setup on my desktop. How do you manage to get as much done without a real mouse, a real keyboard, and big monitors?
I really like going to the library when I'm working with pen and lots of paper. Except for after school, you can usually get a 30" by 6 foot table to yourself and really spread out - great for trying to coordinate info from multiple papers/schedules/plans.
That only goes so far. Big screen gives you the ability to see many things "simultaneously" -- well, requiring only to cast your eyes, not make distracting and tedious mouse or keyboard movements and process mental context switches from the contents of a totally different desktop.
However, one thing to be aware of is that a lot of parents use libraries as excursions/free daycare and librarians are reluctant to yell at kids. Not that I blame either of them (good job, parents. Let's get those kids reading early!), but have some headphones for when the usual decorum breaks down.
Still, it beats the over-commercialized folk music and hissing espresso machines of the coffee shop.
Personally, I recommend a quiet corner of a 5 star hotel lobby/bar that has free wifi and accommodating doormen. Our first 2 or 3 weeks we camped out on the mezzanine overlooking the lobby of a not-to-be-named fancy hotel in DC (interspersed with on-sites at a nearby client's).
The best part was when the piano player started at 5:00 we knew it was about time to wrap up (and sometimes grab a scotch). That was a good way to end a day.
Libraries, however, are a great choice for telecommuting (especially when home is full of temptations for distraction).
> "there’s a much better - and cheaper - option just down the road. My library."
I disagree, I think coworking spaces are a far better option than the library! Far cheaper than office space, environment for working and actually talking to a co-worker or two, no social isolation, it just makes so much more sense.
I should also add that you won't feel obligated to pay for a piece of cake or a coffee every so often, just bring what you need. Williamsburg Coworking in Brooklyn is a great space, so is Indy Hall down in Philadelphia.
$250/mo is pretty steep for your first quarter in business. Using the library until your company gets its sea legs, and then migrating to coworking spaces, sounds like a good plan to me.
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[ 6.4 ms ] story [ 736 ms ] threadWhen I worked at coffee shops a few days a week (or a month), I went specifically to get some new background noise and new background scenery.
Although, I suppose a library offers even fewer distractions than home does, and you do have to wear pants.
1) It is good to be in an environment where others are hard at work because you'll be less likely to screw around.
2) It feels like you are doing something fun (you are "out") and at the same time working hard.
3) Home can be quite distracting unless you are fortunate enough to have a large house with a nice office.
There is tons of psych research on the effect of isolation on humans. Basically, it drives you insane. It is literally a form of torture. We are social creatures, designed to live in packs and tribes. Even an antisocial human is a relatively social creature.
It isn't easy to believe this until you've tried it. But I spent a year working out of my home office, and now I have a cubicle in an office again, and it is astonishing how much happier and more productive I am when I'm surrounded by other people, even if -- indeed, especially if -- they don't interact with me very much.
Of course, there is plenty of other research (not to mention lots of anecdotes from folks like PG) on the benefits of not being interrupted when you're trying to program. So what you really want is the library, where there are fellow humans around, but nobody will approach you or even speak in a loud voice. (Or perhaps you want a fishbowl office like the one Joel Spolsky built, where you can see lots of other people but you can't hear them.)
About the no interruptions - I can't remember the last time someone's interrupted my at Starbucks. But that could be that I always have my headphones on and have my eyes fixated on my laptop screen or book.
This works best if you can have a separate room as your office, however.
For some reason our local libraries block instant messengers, some webmail (but not https Gmail), and VPN connections. If it weren't for our http/https VPN setup, I wouldn't be able to do any online work there.
They also have few laptop-friendly seats. The big library near me has just two grown-up sized tables and you usually have to squeeze onto a table with a couple others. The smaller library has 8 study cubicles, most without power outlets, but it also has a park next to it where you can catch the wifi from some picnic tables.
- Pets - TV - Fridge/Pantry - Kids/Wife/Husband/Roommates
Beyond that, there are many opportunities for your non-work life to interrupt your work life. It's a culture thing, being that there is absolutely no work culture at your home where there is one at a place with others.
I'm actually in the process of setting up a coworking facility down here in Atlanta. We're going to have two rooms to satisfy both camps: The Loud Room and The Quiet Room. Each caters to a specific goal and lets people use the space they want to without inconveniencing others. It's sort of a coffee shop next to a library. Best of both worlds :)
I live where Midtown borders downtown and am a self-employed telecom consultant - basically a glorified one-man show.
Looks like you're right next door, if this is the Borders next to City Hall East :)
FWIW, GT's library does rock. They have quiet area as well as group areas and a great set of workstations as well. The only thing missing is a decent coffee machine.
Still, I do enjoy it from time to time as a change of pace. Mostly I've started working at our local co-working place in Rochester - unlimited coffee, no worries about leaving your laptop if you need to run an errand, etc.
Not entirely true. Borders is probably the only place I know that still charges for wifi. Everywhere else it is either free or you get two hours free by entering some kind of code.
The big problem is I like HN and I would never troll at Slashdot or Techcrunch aggression levels.
I think the last phase is to ask pg to downvote me himself, but that's kinda cheating.
One downside of the library is that it's often not convenient to grab a cup of coffee or snack. The main branch in SF has a cafe, but it's way in the basement. The Chinatown branch doesn't have any food or drinks.
(Carnegie Library Oakland, Carnegie Mellon Hunt, and Pitt Hillman, if you must know.)
In addition, all of them are surrounded by coffee places, so you can stretch your legs, get a coffee, maybe work at the coffee shop for a change of pace, then return to the library for better concentration. I have studied for exams and worked on long projects this way.
A former office mate and I would often run through all the options we had for coffee. The coffee maker in our office and the beans my office mate ordered from Hawaii. The sludge in the lounge coffee maker. Walk down the hall to the department's espresso vending machine (which makes surprisingly good latte's). The stand selling coffee and espresso one building over. Or walk about a block to the two coffee shops across the street from each other (Starbuck's and a local place).
Is coffee culture taken to such extreme in other places, or is this a Pittsburgh thing?
http://www.nypl.org/research/chss/grd/rosemain.html
Makes me think of the beginning of Ghostbusters (although IIRC that was Columbia's library).
http://www.flickr.com/photos/inzenity/2594029543/
My two complaints about Copley BPL is that they don't have nearly enough outlets for laptops, and their WiFi can be spotty in places. Of course, maybe Bates Hall will solve all those problems... ;)
They're good with the homeless too. Security guards walk all over that place constantly and wake anyone up who's sleeping. The bathrooms though, arg, across the street to Starbucks please. :)
You can usually identify them by very generic terminology about internet business and (seriously, every one of them) a paper planner.
EDIT: Ah man. It closes at 6pm alot of the nights. I usually like working later than that.
The only real downside to the library was that you couldn't get on the phone during the day without going outside.
The nicest thing about the library is that it works well exactly up to the point where you need and can afford an office.
Unlike the coffee shops, which mostly lose out by being packed full of people who buy one cup of coffee per hour, the library basically exists for the purpose of providing a quiet space for knowledge work. You fund it with your taxes. Library architecture in most metro areas is excellent. You should work out of the library.
Also, I read your last sentence as "You should work out in the library," and imagined laying down under a cart full of large hardcover volumes, trying to grunt very quietly while pressing it. Just sayin'.
Two things to realize:
(1) The library staff is a lot more nervous about the library being empty than they are about it being full. Something about busy libraries being the reason they get paid.
(2) If libraries have headache clientele, it's the homeless. I had no idea what a mess that situation was until I started going to the library every day.
This I can attest to.
At our local public library there's a lady who is constantly picking up and re-shelving kids books only to have some kids take a bunch out and toss most of them on the table or the floor.
When I asked her if she wasn't frustrated, she said counter-intuitively that she's actually happy to come in to the section and find a ton of books to re-shelve.
The staff (and/or branch policy) ultimately decide what to do if a group of people is obviously using the library as a kind of temporary office, and they may request you make more formal arrangements. (The branches I worked at always had back rooms that could be rented out to tutors.) With several people, noise may be an issue. Still, one person typing, or two or three people working with occasional quiet collaboration is probably on par with a couple teenagers studying together. Just be considerate.
Libraries are paid for with tax dollars, and (as tptacek noted) staff are generally more nervous about empty libraries. Branch funding is often closely tied to usage stats - people coming through the door each day, circulation, internet station sessions, etc.
Also, depending on the neighborhood, the staff are probably more worried about drunk and/or mentally ill street people, misbehaving teenagers, etc. (Oh, the stories...)
* Great job to have through college, BTW.
But if you're in a group or rent a lockable study room, it's less complicated.
Oh, yeah, and fewer exits. The coffee shops I go to all have one exit, so if I want to go outside and grab a phone call, I just keep an eye on the exit. There's no other way anybody's leaving with my stuff.
So, while probability of theft may be higher in a coffee shop, it's rather harder to pull off, logistically.
Didn't the fluorescent lighting (weird, flowery lighting fixtures) and homeless guys bother you? Or the kids that fight/argue and get kicked out by the security guards?
I definitely work better in the library than in coffee shops, but I'm too spoiled to do it full-time now. My concentration isn't what it used to be.
If you're in the Bay Area, mid-Peninsula, the San Carlos library has rooms with whiteboards. Plus, it's only a ten minute drive to the likes of EA, Oracle, etc.
Seriously, you're eating $3 slices of pound cake and drinking $4 coffees when for that amount of money you can have ham sandwiches for a week?
However, one thing to be aware of is that a lot of parents use libraries as excursions/free daycare and librarians are reluctant to yell at kids. Not that I blame either of them (good job, parents. Let's get those kids reading early!), but have some headphones for when the usual decorum breaks down.
Still, it beats the over-commercialized folk music and hissing espresso machines of the coffee shop.
The best part was when the piano player started at 5:00 we knew it was about time to wrap up (and sometimes grab a scotch). That was a good way to end a day.
Libraries, however, are a great choice for telecommuting (especially when home is full of temptations for distraction).
> "there’s a much better - and cheaper - option just down the road. My library."
I disagree, I think coworking spaces are a far better option than the library! Far cheaper than office space, environment for working and actually talking to a co-worker or two, no social isolation, it just makes so much more sense.