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Ask HN: Can I decline a job offer already accepted?

17 points by gmen ↗ HN
I accepted a job offer from a US company X, and while waiting for them to send me the contract, I received a better offer from US company Y.

Now I would like to go with company Y, but I already accepted the offer from Company X (I did not sign anything, I accepted it via email).

Is it legal to decline the offer from company X after accepting it? Do I risk anything?

26 comments

[ 2.8 ms ] story [ 43.9 ms ] thread
patio11
Totally legal. Your main risk is social opprobrium. There exists a social norm that you not do this, and it may be considered unprofessional behavior by the people attempting to hire you. People do talk, so I'd weigh the possibility of burning those bridges over the relative certainty in the differences between offer Y and offer X.

In my younger days, I would have flatly advised against it for mostly karmic reasons, but having seen the general tenor of business relationships and how many companies treat not-yet-signed employees, I am unable to muster any moral outrage against an employee who terminates a negotiation despite that negotiation appearing to be in late stages.

davismwfl
My younger self would have said the same thing, that you have a moral obligation once you make a commitment. But having been around quite a while now, I have seen companies retract offers between when it was accepted and when the person was supposed to start, because they "changed their mind", or had a change in circumstances. So I take the opinion now that as long as you are up front and honest it is just a business transaction and the karma balances out by being up front.
greenyoda
"I have seen companies retract offers between when it was accepted and when the person was supposed to start..."

I've also seen companies hire people and then turn around and fire them after a couple of weeks because they "weren't working out" or because "the funding for the job disappeared" or because they had layoffs due to financial difficulties (which they probably could have seen coming at the time they hired the person).

"At-will" employment goes both ways. If the company has the right to fire an employee because it's convenient for them (or just because they feel like it), an employee shouldn't feel bad about firing a company for the same reason.

rmc
Even in countries without "at will" employment (e.g. Europe), companies can still dump employees. It goes both ways, everywhere.
MarkMc
I have to disagree: It may be legal and in your self interest, but I don't think you should reneg on your offer. You should treat others the way you want to be treated, which means honouring the email agreement.

And if you do withdraw your offer to company x, don't complain if company y withdraws its offer to you.

If you stick with company x then show them the job offer from company y at your next salary review. It is great leverage in negotiating a higher salary.

barry-cotter
He's not dealing with pre Lou Gerstne IBM, or a Japanese keiretsu. He's dealing with a company that has no loyalty. I appreciate that you may remember a time when company loyalty wasn't the punchline of a joke but noon under 30, probably noone under 40 did.
davelnewton
You don't know anything about the company and its "loyalty", you're guessing. (Unless you're not, in which case, you should disclose that you have inside information.)
chc
It is not usually the employee who sets the deadline on the offer, so I don't believe this moral equivalence is real. If a company does not want this situation to come up, it is at liberty to give a deadline that's long enough for the employee to consider other offers and make an informed decision. A company that attempts to rush an employee to accept an offer before others come in is attempting to exploit the employee's feelings of responsibility to the company's advantage. I do not think people are obligated to allow themselves to be exploited in this way.
notahacker
In the absence of any insinuation by the OP that the first company put any pressure on them to accept the offer within any time frame at all it's pretty wild speculation on your part to accuse them of "exploiting" them.

(it's just as easy to assume the latter... that the first offer was accepted because it was perfectly reasonable and the second company was slow to make an offer and poor at communicating. If the second company did take a surprisingly long time to make an offer that's actually another variable to take into account; possibly representing organisational problems or a preference for other candidates at their end)

davismwfl
I am not a lawyer, but from what I know it is not illegal to accept an offer and then decline it later before you have signed an agreement. For that matter, from my knowledge nothing generally would stop you from "quitting" the job on day 1, except you may create an upset employer.

You could simply go back and say something like:

"Hi Company X, as I am sure you realize I applied to multiple openings when looking to take my next position. And while I have been waiting to receive the contract from you I was contacted by another firm that showed interest and already received the contract from them. I greatly respect your time and efforts, but I feel this other offer is a better fit at this time for me. This has no reflection on your firm or offer, but I feel I might be a better fit with them, and I hope you understand. I hope we can work together in the future, thank you for all your hospitality"

I do think you have to be 100% up front about what you are doing, but companies get it, and this is a competitive market. You may burn a bridge here though at least with this company, so just be aware of that. In the end though, if you make it more about yourself and are up front, you likely won't create any major issues.

Just my 2 cents.

chatmasta
This is the best advice in the thread. Straight-forward honesty is often the best move in situations where you (think you) might be hurting (inconveniencing) someone. If you're worried about saying this, consider the fact that it means way less to your hiring manager that you spend the next two years at his/her company, than it does to you.
stevewilhelm
If it truly is a better job and you are clear and honest with company X they will be disappointed but shouldn't begrudge you for taking the other offer.

But I wouldn't make a habit of declining offers after accepting. The US tech community is smaller than you think and you wouldn't want get a reputation of not being true to your word.

If it is just a better offer in terms of money or shares, you can tell company X the details of company Y's deal. Company X might not be aware of current going rate and may be willing to match company Y's offer.

codezero
Totally agree. As long as it's not just a "higher" offer, going with the company you really think is better for you (both financially and technically), is always the right move. Even if you accepted the offer, it's OK to rescind, like Steve said above, just be honest and direct, yes it's awkward, but it's definitely more awkward for you than the company that made you the offer. If Company A was a really small company, be extra communicative as recruiting is hard for small teams :)
adventured
It's completely legal to decline offer X, and instead take offer Y.

If you're certain it's the best opportunity, do not hesitate to take offer Y.

However, also, be honest with company X about what happened. You don't owe them a huge explanation, these things happen all the time. Simply let them know that while waiting for the contract, you received a better offer and have decided to take it. Company X may even upgrade their offer to you as a counter.

arisAlexis
sure it's bad karma but just be flat out frank with them, apologize, forget about it, have a nice new life with Y.

US and especially silicon valley is very clear about the rules of the game, and the rules is that there are no bad moves only illegal ones.

zhte415
Appreciate the connection and chance X is giving. By phrasing the question in a very position based nature (legality, contract, risk) I'm worried you may be framing out and sacrifice the relationships or interests with X. Seek agreement this is a good opportunity, but you appreciate the opportunity with X. Don't make it sound superficial. The short term cards are in your hands, longer term you may well meet again people from Y.
jenkstom
Most companies have a "probation" period for the first 30-90 days. The idea is that if it isn't working for the company or the worker, they can end the relationship without drama. You're just doing it even earlier than that. It will cost them less for you to drop out at this point than after you have actually gone through the process of being hired.
JoeAltmaier
You have no problem. Many states are at-will employment, which means you can leave for any reason or no reason. If they have not paid you anything, then you own them nothing - employment is about the money, and until money changes hands, there's no obligation.

This is an extremely common occurrence. Folks take jobs all the time and never show up. My old boss at Intermec complained that 1/3 or more of the people he 'hired' never showed.

mattwritescode
You are allowed to change your mind just make sure you are doing it for yourself and not looking through recruiters tinted glasses.
gjvc
"If you tell the truth, you never have to remember anything." -- Mark Twain

Don't sweat it.

hiring_sucks
I've done it.

Under the terms that were given to me by company Y, I simply could not accept it. So I accepted the offer from Company X over the phone and they were to send me the paper work.

When I called Company Y to let the know, they changed the offer to be more favorable towards me after initially accepting the rejection. The terms were significantly better than Company X.

I told Company X about the new situation, and gave them a day to decide what they would want to do. They decided not to match the offer from Company Y.

I think company's understand that the talent pool in tech. is highly sought after and sometimes they win and sometimes they lose.

After all, this is business, right?

MeHighLow
It is certainly not an illegal move and you shouldn't really be burning any bridges. Surely they will also have backup candidates they can call in case an offer to you falls through.

However, if you had signed the contract with company X, then got a better offer from company Y and you decide to leave, then you might have burnt some bridges.

Best policy is to be be honest and tell them what's up. They should understand you're trying to maximize your opportunities

ssharp
If you haven't signed any binding contract, you aren't under any legal obligation.

Early on in my career, around a decade ago, I gave a wishy-washy acceptance that I backed out of a couple of days later. I felt bad doing it, but the more I looked at the company, the less I wanted to work there. I still regret the way I handled the situation but don't regret the ultimate decision.

chatmasta
It's legal. Ignore the people here saying it's "bad karma." What does that even mean? Presumably you'll be working for this company for a few years. You should pick the one you like the most. It's your next couple years, not the company's. They can always extend an offer to the next person in line.

That said, be careful, because there are extenuating circumstances. People do talk, especially in the same industry and city. Still, I highly doubt hiring manager at Y would reneg your offer if he heard from X that you chose Y over X. If anything he'd be happy!

Also note that if you got this job through your school's career network (alumni or otherwise), they may have policies in place that prohibit reneging on offers, and blacklist you if you do. Even then, though, you didn't sign anything.

I'm of the opinion that you should do what's best for yourself. This is your life, and the job will affect its foreseeable future. Make whatever decision you will regret the least in two years.

"If you can project yourself out to age 80 and sort of think, “What will I think at that time?” it gets you away from some of the daily pieces of confusion."

- Jeff Bezos on deciding to leave Wall St to start Amazon [1]

http://bijansabet.com/post/147533511/jeff-bezos-regret-minim...