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Ask HN: Can I work for free for your startup?

9 points by KG1 ↗ HN
Hey guys, my name is George and I really want to get involved with a cool startup or idea. I am not looking for monetary compensation, just the ability to build something cool with awesome people. I am currently in New York (Upstate) and looking to move to the Valley by October/November. I am business & marketing grad from SUNY New Paltz and I am self taught in graphic design & currently learning UI UX Design. I am not a programmer, however I will learn in order to get the job done. I never back down from a problem and I will do whatever it takes to help us achieve our goals. If anyone is interested please shoot me an email at georgealvaran0305@gmail.com for resumes or any questions. Hope to hear from you.

17 comments

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dangrossman
You can't work for free for a startup. Federal law requires you be put on payroll and paid at least minimum wage. No employment contract can supersede that law. Silicon Valley has to be one of the more challenging places to live without a high-paying job: the average rent for a 1-bedroom apartment around San Francisco is over $3000/month. Why don't you want to be compensated for this labor you're looking to provide to a startup?
KG1
I appreciate the response. I plan on living in my van for the first several months until i get established. The reason i asked to work for free is that its been so hard to get a job and my background is not in the tech space i felt this would be the best way to get my foot in the door. I am hungry and willing to prove myself to a great team.
nostrademons
If you really want to get into the tech sector, work for free for yourself and then get a paid job. Teach yourself iOS or Android development, build an app, and then promote it yourself. The app probably won't go anywhere, but seeing an actual polished app that's actually being promoted and maybe even used by a few people looks really good to any potential employer. Then get a job at market-rate wages instead of selling yourself short.

If you value yourself at nothing, chances are your employer will value you at nothing too. They'll extract whatever free work they can out of you and say goodbye as soon as you start asking to be paid.

KG1
That's a great idea. I will def do that. Its not that I don't value myself at nothing I was just trying to get in any way I can. I worked in the music industry for 5 years (large record labels) and that's how I got my foot in the door so I was just trying to do the same. Thanks for the great advice
giaour
I also came to the tech sector having previously worked in a field where the only way to get established was by working for free (publishing in my case) and was surprised to find I couldn't do the same to get a programming job.

Tech is different, and the fastest way to get an employer to stop taking you seriously is to ask for less than you appear to be worth.

mslev
Unpaid internships exist, although I believe they often substitute class credit for actual wages.
KG1
I already graduated college, but i have thought of that aswell.
dangrossman
Unpaid internships can't involve the intern doing work for the benefit of the employer, which is what he's offering. Here's the six criteria test for unpaid internships from the Department of Labor:

http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.pdf

Virtually all internships in tech are paid internships. Colleges that run coop programs give credits for internships in addition to the students getting paid: it's sold to them as a way to help pay their college costs while getting work experience before graduating. An employer can't pay you in college credits.

KG1
Dan thanks again for all the feedback. I truly appreciate it.
AustinDizzy
Couldn't he get around this by doing contracted work and wanting only $1 for payment?
mrits
Or just don't bill. That's not illegal.
theaccordance
Hi George, welcome to Hacker News. If you're looking to join a startup, here's a couple suggestions on how to improve your odds when posting on HN:

- Make things easier for the companies you're trying to attract. Provide links to your Resume, LinkedIn, and/or Portfolio in your Ask HN post.

- A Jack of All Trades is a Master of None. You mention having background in Business, Marketing, Graphic Design, and UI/UX. Pitch 1 competency, preferably your strongest.

- Find ways to build experience and reputation in your current situation. I'm not seeing either based on what you've written.

KG1
Thanks for the great post I will do that. My major at school was Business & Marketing, after graduating I worked in the music business for about 5 years doing mostly admin work & product management. That's my background however I want to make a career change and get into the tech space that's why I made this post. I am currently learning UI/UX design and am no pro by any means yet, I just wanted to show potential companies that I am team player willing to learn and create value.
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markonthewall
I find your desire to improve very impressive, but I think you will be better off finding a paid opportunity, as counter intuitive as it sounds.

Most of the time, the only technical skill you will develop by doing an unpaid internship is how to simultaneously make coffee and photocopies. This is not what you want.

When a company commits financially, the stakes are much higher and not training you properly will actually result in a waste of money. It will be hard with no prior programming experience but we fortunately, are a field where what you can do overweight where you come from.

This is only true to a certain extent of course, and you need first and foremost to be able to do things. It will take years and thousand of hours before you become a decent programmer.

For companies to invest in you, you need to demonstrate that you are sweating to get better and that you will actually get better.

It means reading, writing and studying code, programming methodologies and paradigms. Overwhelm yourself, learn passionately and ruthlessly. It may sound like a platitude but there is actually very little else you can do.

Start doing that now, yes now. Focus on that, take a job as a waiter and learn, learn, learn on your free time. When you start feeling a little less inept, it will be the right time to send a couple emails, calls and posts on HN.

This will also act as a test, you might be a little delusional and drank a little too much koolaid. Working all day and studying at night will let you truly assess whether it is the case or not, whether you are chasing a mirage or a vocation.

Technical internships, jobs should be viewed as opportunities to get better, professional and familiar with new problems and technologies. if you want people to invest you, start investing in yourself.

KG1
Mark, I truly appreciate your detailed response. I fully understand I must invest in myself prior to any company investing in me. My goal like most people is to build a great network of like minded individuals so that when I am ready I can build something on my own with a real team. Thanks again Mark.
jklein11
According to other comments you have been employed for the past 5 years. You might want to leverage the contacts and relationships you have built first. These are the people who already know your work ethic and could provide a warm lead to a job/mentor. You'd be surprised how small the world is.