Ask HN: How does having a baby change your life?
Inspired by this comment:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/448613/whats-happening-with-arc/586632#586632
So does having a baby give you inspiration and ability to do more?
Or maybe you change your life's priorities?
Or you are so exhausted that everything else seems uninteresting?
How does having a baby change your life?
215 comments
[ 0.24 ms ] story [ 207 ms ] threadTo answer some of your questions:
- Your ability to produce will go down drastically - Your priorities will change. - You will be more tired, and your time will be at a premium.
I think the time issue is the main one. Especially for those reading this. I feel like a lot of hackers like sitting down for hours during your free time to do stuff - personal projects, items of interest, startups. Your free time really disappears with children (at least at early ages).
Not to say it's not rewarding in itself. It's just that it's like being in a cult. You can't understand until you're in it, and you can't imagine things any other way.
This. I've got four daughters, ranging in age from 3 to 13, and even though the "baby years" are behind me (until the grandchildren come, presumably) things are still not "the other way"-- if I can even remember what that was like.
You're absolutely right though.
My daughter is 16 months old. On a day when I'm looking after her on my own I might get one 45 - 90 minute chunk during the day where I could do something approximating to work (when she sleeps - though you've probably got clearing up, catching your breath and other things in there depending on the mood they've been in).
Other than that you might be able to read and reply to the odd e-mail, check the odd thing or make a quick call or two (so long as you're happy with the possibility of a child shouting in the background) but nothing that could be classified as productive - certainly don't even think about coding being something that might happen.
That all runs from 7am to 7pm. Once they've gone to bed you have to eat, clear up and get ready for the next day before you start thinking about what you want to do. On a good day where they're behaving you can clear up as you go and you're set by 7.30pm, have eaten by 8pm and you're good to go.
On a bad day you've eaten by 9pm and you're dead on your feet. Looking after young kids is full time and I will never question what stay at home mothers do with their day again.
Still wouldn't change it though - I miss having time to do the things I used to do but I'd miss her far more.
Was highly voted up in HN http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1539833
Cooking/eating
Going to the store
Sleeping
I'm not giving up on my side projects though. My strategy has been to think about my project while actively caring for the baby and to sneak in some coding sessions while she's napping.
I'm a father to a 6 month old boy and I got to a point where I was so tired I felt I could see through time.
Running a start-up is tough (mentally, physically and emotionally). In my experience the emotional one is the toughest. Having a baby (and hence children) helps to put all the "junk" things into perspective.
Sure they impact on sleep / time - but so does my start-up (in this case they fit right in)
- every day is much more structured around the baby. Get home from work, feed her, put her to bed at 8:30pm, she wakes up at 6am, feed her, go to work, etc.
-Its like being on-call 24-7 so expect very few opportunities to get in the "flow state" when working on your app/startup.
- I have a full-time job (not related to software) and in the past I planned to quit to work on a startup full-time but my risk tolerance just went to zero as I now worry about having money for the baby. My startup will need to be throwing off at least 2x my current salary before I consider quitting my job.
- Its hard to have your own time to do anything, let alone work on a side-project.
A positive though, that may not apply to everyone, but certainly applied to me: They make you grow up
Suddenly there are other people that really depend upon you. Whilst finding the time to get a startup running is harder, I think the motivation to succeed is stronger than it was when it was just me with few cares in the world.
Once I began to understand how I could fully commit myself to my children and what it means to have kids that fully depend on you, many other things became easier to prioritize and commit to, or reject. It was easier for me to focus at work and realize that I need to make that time valuable, it was easier to exercise and eat right, it was easier to say to no to people and drop activities that were not core to what I was doing. Maybe clarity around priorities is what changed the most for me.
(I do think I try harder not to be unwise, though ...)
After they were born, I spent so much time nursing them for the first 2 months, that I had plenty of hack-y time (alternating with episodes of Buffy). You need a good nursing pillow and a comfortable seat, but you need those even if you're just watching Buffy. My beloved cooked all the meals, did most of the errands, and was generally as awesome and supportive as a man can be. It helps that he was working from home at the time.
It's definitely a trip, but I love it. Starting a business around it is hard. I applied to YC, but I'm fairly confident I won't get in because I can't live in California for 3 months.
Contrary to what some other people on here have said, I've actually found more time to work on side projects and my startup. If my son wakes up at 330 and wants food, I'll just stay up then and I have a good 3 hours of uninterrupted work time (he'll usually go back to sleep after the bottle).
Having a little boy motivates me much more than not having one. I want to build a successful company that makes me independently wealthy so at some point, I can spend my time with him and the rest of my family.
I also enjoy being young and having a son (I'm 26). I'll be 43 when he goes to college, which means I'll be young enough I could do another startup then.
That's an admirable goal but don't sacrifice too much of your time with the family now chasing after the dream of time with your family later.
Sorry for being cynical but this really sounds like a cheap excuse to justify why you cannot spend time with your baby now. I have a 9 monhts old myself and it's pretty obvious that he prefers having a present dad around right now, rather than a possibly wealthy dad in 20 years.
In the version I read, before finding this one, it talked about playing with the kids, sleeping with the wife and drinking and playing guitar with friends instead of laying in the sun.
http://www.uni-flensburg.de/asta/pol_kultur_anekdote.htm [DE]
They need you now dude. I know you probably didn't mean it the way it came out, but that's not the right approach.
Having two or more children is like living in a circus where all the performers are deaf.
when you have 2, you live in their world.
this is going to be fun. :)
I don't think chasing a pot of gold is worth giving up time for your family (that you'll never get back), but that may just be me.
I find I have less time in front of the computer, but more motivation and inspiration while I'm there. I still have plenty of energy and time to create interesting projects (http://yieldthought.com/post/1345897970/10-flaws-that-made-m...). I had more time beforehand, but I can't point to anything worthwhile that I achieved with it.
You mean when _your_ baby sleeps through the night - mine didn't until 12-14 months or so :)
My wife and I waited 'til we were both 30 to have kids (we had been married since we were 24). Because we waited, we decided that we'd go all in when we did have kids--one of us would be at home with the kids, and likely homeschool (which we are doing). We made the commitment to change our lives in order to be parents. We weren't going to shoehorn kids into our lifestyle.
Additionally, be ready to sacrifice your time for your partner/spouse's sake, especially during infancy. Both parents need some time away, particularly if one is at home with the child. Early on, I considered my time at work my "free time," and was willing to give up trips to the climbing gym in the evenings so that my wife could get out of the house. As I said, this is only temporary, and as your kids get older, it's easier to share what you love with them (that's why we've never stopped climbing since we had kids--we can easily do it together, and the many road trips have provided lots of bonding experiences).
Another thing I've come to realize is that raising your children really is a way to make a positive contribution to the world. The work you do as a parent is profoundly important, more so than any hacking project or start-up. You will have time for your own big ideas again, so don't waste the opportunity you have with your kids.
And I'm also a CTO at a new venture, with all the pain and hard work that involves. And it is hard with kids, keeping the balance, etc. However, it is that balance that keeps me sane, the kids bring joy when the job sucks, and vice versa.
I bloody love being a parent.
this means:
1) learning how to communicate values (as opposed to rules) 2) learning how to steer them away from paths that are not opportunities for growth and into those that are.
these are both things that any development team could use
Note: activities like preparing a meal and straightening up the place tend to take priority over developing a startup.
A few suggestions to help make things easier for you:
* "Attachment parenting" early on pays off hugely in more independent, more emotionally secure children later. Invest in a Trekker [1], Snugli [2] or other baby harness that lets you carry the baby facing inwards or outwards and frees up your arms to do other stuff.
* Seriously consider having the baby sleep in your bed with you, especially if you/your spouse are breastfeeding.
* Seriously consider breastfeeding. Once established (usually takes a few weeks to get really comfortable with it), it's so much healthier, easier and more convenient than bottle feeding that I can't understand why anyone who has the option wouldn't take it. (Disclosure: I'm male, but my spouse agrees 100%.)
* Accept and embrace the fact that from now on, all your plans are contingent. Learn to build big buffers around all your scheduled activities. Get in the habit of keeping a utility bag with you at all times.
* Don't waste your money on a change table. You will change that baby's diaper wherever you need to do it. (We've changed our baby's diaper in the trunk of our car.)
* Don't forget that you and your spouse had reasons to be together before the baby was born. As soon as the baby is old enough, get back into the habit of going on dates and otherwise spending time together. Don't miss opportunities to let your spouse know how much you cherish them. A little act of kindness at a crucial moment can radically transform your family dynamics for the better.
I'm sure I'll think of more, but that seems to be a good place to start. As always in anything to do with children, YMMV.
[1] http://www.babytrekker.com/
[2] http://www.evenflo.com/category.aspx?id=23
In my experience this leads to drastically less sleep. You disturb your baby and your baby disturbs you. We put the baby in another room and invested in a baby alarm.
* Seriously consider breastfeeding.
Yes, but don't pressure yourself too much...the most important thing is that the baby eats properly. Bottle feeding gives you the critical advantage of being able to measure how much the baby eats.
* Don't waste your money on a change table.
I would say invest! After a week or so of leaning over to change our baby it really affected me sitting at the computer to code. Bad back means bad news for your startup.
Also agree on sleeping separate - we put ours in the nursery after three nights. He sleeps 7pm - 8am now (at 8 months) and is very happy. Bizarely, tired babies don't sleep well (ie don't keep them up in the hope they'll sleep longer). Put them to bed before they get overtired. If you share a room you will wake each other and you'll all be tired and cranky.
#2 is sleeping in her room in crib and we have a twin bed in that room and we take turns sleeping in that room with her. She starting to stay asleep at night for longer periods and is almost 6 mos old. She also has terrible reflux since she was born and would vomit up even breastmilk so she is on a special formula.
Don't be afraid to sleep with the baby if you feel like it, and don't be afraid to put them in their own bed if you feel like it. It's ok. Also, putting them in their own bed in the same room for a little while gives you a lot of advantages (easy to check on them without getting out of bed etc.)
Basically, just do what you feel like and if it isn't working try something else.
We actually have two changing tables in the house. One upstairs and one downstairs. Last thing you want is trying to change a kid on the floor who's starting to twist and turn and has a really poopy diaper.
...or if there was a catastrophic containment failure.
Politics, nutrition and parenting are all conversations I attempt to avoid, and this combines 2 of 3 topics. :/
That said, it was pretty obvious that she was getting enough, it was just mildly uncomfortable not knowing how much.
For a minority of parents, the child will be "failure to thrive" and for that you will need to measure intake, but the child will also be on special high calorie formula anyway. So at this point the advantage is irrelevant.
"Measuring" is a really stupid reason to deny your kid the other benefits of breast feeding. However, there are many viable reasons not to breastfeed, such as it's just not working, or the mother needs to work/have a life, or it's painful, etc.
We've got our little one in a cradle next to the bed and my wife is breastfeeding. This is just as convenient, if not moreso than having him in the bed. I sleep like a rock and I'm concerned about squishing the poor guy.
> Don't waste your money on a change table. You will change that baby's diaper wherever you need to do it. (We've changed our baby's diaper in the trunk of our car.)
Our changing table has a ton of room for storage and can become a dresser for the kid later in life. Our house isn't that big (1750sq ft), so we take him to his room to be changed. It saves a lot of bending over and I think my back is better for it. Additionally, it keeps all the necessary supplies at hand. We have changed him in the trunk, as well. I think it's a rite of passage...
> Get in the habit of keeping a utility bag with you at all times.
This. Always have baby supplies (and parent supplies) with you.
As for the attachment parenting, we have a mobi-wrap and a baby bjorn. I use the hell out of the bjorn, but the mobi-wrap is a bit of a hassle (it's a giant strip of black fabric). My wife, however, loves the mobi. Find some sort of baby carrier that works for you, they're indispensable.
EDIT: Also, look for a crib that can be adjusted over time. We picked one up that goes from crib, to deeper crib, to twin sized bed, so our son can potentially use it for years to come.
Also: everyone will have advice: you will learn to ignore most of it. Particularly advice by your parents. They had babies in a time when there were different priorities. So you'll have to learn to find your own way, trust your instincts, talk to other parents you like/admire.
You can safely ignore most advice by most people :)
(ps: my tip: you can't spoil a baby, not until they're, say, 1 year old (then discipline becomes part of the game. You can never kiss/hold/love them enough or give them too much attention at that age.)
In my opinion, the reward to the parents and the baby from co-sleeping outweighs the risks. You should of course take precautions to mitigate the risk.
Definitely avoid those sleeping positioners.
everything carries a risk. Do what seems natural and right for you.
There are many studies on what reduces the occurrence. For example, the "back to sleep" campaign saw SIDS incidence go down by 50% in just a few years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back_to_Sleep
SIDS is 6x higher in families where one or both parents smoke. The lower incidence in the last years might just be because of less people smoking.
Anecdote: our midwife told us that we should put our son to sleep on his back. She also told us that in her working life, she'd first had to tell parents to put their kids to sleep on their belly, years later they were supposed to be safest on their side - there were even little foam triangles sold so the babies would stay put. Now it's on their back.
I'd still say go with what feels right and worry about things that are more important.
Men are a less safe bet, apparently. My sister (a phyisician) said that it can be dangerous if the men are drugged (alcohol, for example).
There is also the sudden infant death syndrome. They still don't know what's going on, but statistics seem to dictate to have the baby sleep in the same room, but separate bed. That doesn't apply for the first four weeks, though - in the first four weeks it is apparently fine to have the baby sleep in the same bed.
Also consider that the sudden infant death thing stems from the cold world of modern medicine. I think in individual cases it is probably OK to not stick to every rule. Some might be more important than others, too. For example smoking in the household seems to be extremely bad.
Wish I had access to the raw statistics.
You can put that big pregnancy pillow around them for extra comfort.
"There has been a fourfold increase in the rate of infant strangulation and suffocation in the U.S. in the past 20 years, according to a report released today, and the apparent cause (though hardly the definitive one) is the rise in numbers of babies who share beds with their parents." source: http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/26/the-risks-of-s...
"The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) and the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) warn that infants should not co-sleep with their parents." source: http://www.marchofdimes.com/pnhec/298_29656.asp
"Adults sleeping with babies increases risk of sudden and unexplained infant death, inquest finds" source http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/health-science/adults-s...
Using this same logic, we should have abandoned the adoption of the automobile because as it became more and more commonplace, automobile-related deaths rose as well.
In the case of sleeping with a baby you are taking a risk but for what reward? "cultural thing"? not having to sit up in bed and reach to the crib? this risk/reward ratio is horrible and cannot be compared with the one for cars.
* You can easily say that putting your baby in another room runs the risk of something happening to your baby in the other room that you either can't hear, or can't get there fast enough to do anything about.
* Your baby can just as easily die from SIDS in a crib as they can in your bed, and SIDS is probably a larger risk than you rolling over on your baby (as long as your don't go to bed after drugs and/or alcohol).
Please tell me what the risk/reward ratio is. Most people don't do risk/reward ratios. What is the risk/reward ratio of the majority of the populous zooming around in personal automobiles as opposed to pooling resources for effective (and well-maintained) public transit? In many of the places where public transit languished while automobile usage took off it had far more to do with the prestige of owning a car. Using public transit meant you were poor, but having a car (or multiple cars!) was a status symbol. Why do you think that you can find extremely 'pimped out' cars in the drive-ways of houses that are falling apart in places like Detroit? Why do I get teenagers/20-somethings (infrequently) yelling things like, "I got wheels baby! WHoooo!" (or similar) when I'm walking along a busy street? The car is a status symbol a hell of a lot more than it is a utility device (do you really need to drive 5 blocks to the store to pick up beer and drive back home?)I sure hope the "let them sleep in their own beds" directive has a more solid foundation than that.
The only true research that I know of is the one that says to have them sleep on their backs, not on their bellies.
The term does. The phenomenon is hardly new. Infants probably have died suddenly and without quick explanation ever since there were infants.
It's just, if you let medicine run it's course unchecked, it can get ugly. We stayed in the hospital for three days after the birth. On day two we were close to fleeing home, because the nurses would always think of yet another possible problem and yet another check they should run (everything was fine). Hard to explain if you never had the experience of too much medical interference.
Some of those are becoming better understood (babies can't always tell if they're breathing CO2 rather than oxygen so it turns out they shouldn't sleep on their tummies) but mostly it's a fancy medical term for "we don't know". It's not even a mysterious disease and "no one knows what it's caused by"--we don't even know that a disease exists.
We let both our girls (now 1 & 3) "cry it out." It was quite hard for a couple of weeks, but they both now have very good sleeping schedules. And, as far as I can tell, no psychological damage!
Sleep with your baby if you find it emotionally gratifying, but I'm skeptical that there's any significant benefit. It didn't work for us - my wife still wakes up occasionally from disturbing "baby in the bed" dreams.
Hooray anecdotes!
Here's a pretty good assessment of it:
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/774928.html
One thing I don't think is in dispute: "Cry it out" works quickly and involves less exhaustion for parents and children.
It really seems to boil down to a big ol' "I dunno" from science, which is at least a bound on the virtues/dangers of the approach if nothing else.
As someone who is actually relatively interested in science, I have noticed that it isn't very helpful when it comes to parenting, except in a few cases which tend not to be very surprising ("hey, don't smoke around your baby"). The studies are so small and there are so many confounding factors I almost wonder why they try.
I'm satisfied with our outcome, nobody got exhausted and we're in a pretty good position now, but who really knows why?
Most parents don't want to hear this - but I think it's great! I don't have to participate in science-approved stimulation activities, I can just play with my kids.
No. Everybody gets less sleep and for small babies there's a serious risk of death.
Also if you sleep fine, good for you. I wouldn't and couldn't sleep well knowing there's a risk (although small) of hurting a baby.
I've heard this but I don't buy it. People have been sleeping this way for millions of years. Normally I believe parents are plenty in tune with their baby's presence not to roll over on them. If you're a heavy drinker then yeah you should probably go sleep on the couch. But as a parent you often have to make choices with conflicting information. If you want the best of both worlds get a co-sleeper.
First off mattresses and the way we sleep now are only a few hundred years old. Second we don't have detailed statistics for infant deaths until very recently so we don't know how many babies were dying a long time ago and for what causes.
For evidence of the risk please see my reply below http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1839044
When she started climbing out of her crib we put a foam mattress on the floor and let her sleep on that (which we moved to her bedroom). This also helped with comforting her at night when she woke up, as we would lie down next to her. Gradually she stopped waking up at night, and if she did, she would go back to sleep by herself.
IMO, getting your baby to sleep through the night and going to bed without too much fuss pays off. I'm no child psychologist, but I think by assuring them that you're there whenever they need you, they become more secure when you're not around. Being able to have a full night's rest is imperative to functioning well the next day.
Once you have children, you tend to start strategizing your sleep schedule.
The risk of SIDS is lower with co-sleeping, and the risk of suffocation or those other horror stories is minuscule. And on top of that they typically only happen with parents who are morbidly obese or on medication (not just illegal drugs, but things like cold medication).
So the prudent thing is not to cosleep it if you took anything, but otherwise it's better.
It might be worth pointing out that your 'baby' will in all likelihood still be sleeping with you in 6 years.
Having a daughter is an amazing experience. Its hard work, but your heart melts at the smallest things. Its true when people say that it changes the way you are for ever.
On the flip side, I found work difficult after the birth. I could operate on a small amount of sleep before, but after my daughter was born the lack of sleep was relentless - kinda like going out on the town every night for two weeks and then having to work a full day.
Our clients have been amazing - heartfelt congratulations and baby clothes in the post, but (rightly so) they still expect project delivery.
I feel that I'm out the other side now - I've trimmed my social commitments and delegated in the right places to my employees, who have stepped up to the task. I've got a good understanding in place with my partner about my time also.
If you are going to have kids and run your own business make sure you plan for reduced sleep and vastly reduced effectiveness after the birth. Things will get back on an even keel quickly enough if you do!
- The first three months just have to be got through. Think of it as a survival test. Lack of sleep, complete change of family dynamics, no sex, no relaxation.
- You might well find yourself resenting the baby. No-one admits to it though. Everyone says "it's magical" and "you love them unconditionally". There are nights when that won't be the case. You and your partner just have to help each other, and don't be afraid to say to them "I just need a couple of hours away from the baby". Obviously you have to do the same for them.
- After three months generally any collicky issues settle down, and they start smiling and really recognizing you. Now it gets good!
- Routine (in my opinion) is everything. We used a modified Gina Ford routine and he was sleeping 7pm - 8am every night by 5/6 months. I'm tired in the evenings but only in the usual way - no more exhaustion.
- It's unbelievable how much you care for them. When you hear their pain cry (the staccato one; not just the usual crying) you drop everything and run to them.
- The biggest change/loss at this stage is the loss of intimacy (and I don't necessarily mean in bed) with my wife. Little things like "shall we go out for dinner on a whim" or "here's breakfast in bed" are very difficult to achieve.
- Spare time is almost non-existant for me, apart for a few evenings when wife and baby visit grandparents. My admiration for people with both startups and babies (and especially side-projects and babies) is enormous.
Can't tell you about the later years (not there yet), but I'm looking forward to just being part of a family with a little mini-me to re-experience the world with.
Also AMEN to the routine thing. Create a routine. It works. For babies, this worked for us: 1. Sleep. 2. Wake up (they are now rested) and immediately feed. Now they are rested and fed, and will play happily. 3. Play. 4. back to sleep at the FIRST sign of tiredness (do NOT let them become overtired).
In spite of all of that, I wouldn't change a thing. All I have to do is look at her smile in the morning and it reminds me what life is really all about.
I'm not terribly exhausted, but I am tired. I'm still interested in all the things I was previously interested in, but I have to focus on the kid now and put those things aside until he's old enough to communicate better and isn't near as helpless.
Lastly, I don't know that he gives me inspiration so much as motivation. Previously I worked to pay the bills so my wife would be comfortable, now it's for my son and wife. If I was single, my living requirements would be far less. I'd likely have a small shack in the middle of nowhere and far fewer possessions. That being said, I love my family and my life as it stands. I wouldn't have it any other way.
The worst, in terms of tiredness and exhaustion comes around 6 - 8 weeks. Right now you've probably still got enough adrenalin in your system from the excitement to help you through but that will wear off over the next few weeks. My wife (who had previously worked 100 hours a week plus as a junior doctor) commented around week 6 that she was so tired she thought she might die.
But it does bounce and start to get better after this. Not sure whether babies just start to improve around then, whether parents start to get the hang of it around then or whether the tiredness leads people to take control of things more than they had before.
My recommendation would be rest all you can now, don't try and cram other things in for now - there will be (a small amount of) time later. I think it was somewhere around 4 or 5 months when things started to feel a little bit back to normal and you can start looking at personal projects and hobbies.
1. Increased desire to move out of ramen profitability as that is not what enough for baby. 2. Baby provides clarity of vision - You're not just doing this for yourself or you and sig other
The hardest part is getting used to the loss of control. That said, it's fantastic (as well as fantastically tiring)
All in all, I think, it's a great experience! very rewarding even the downsides (you know, lack of sleep, diapers, etc) are not as bad as they sound, you kinda get used to it and trust me, raising a happy kid is priceless, so changing diapers for a few years and missing some sleep hours is a very small price to pay imo.
Time. I'd worked in banking fresh out of school - have a problem? Throw hours at it. +100 hour weeks were no problem. Not so now - much more than 60 and the big one will ask me where I've been.
Responsibility. Kids connect you to the world; things that were once meaningless, now matter. I care what the two of them do all day, are they getting a good education, eating healthy, exercising, etc. Your role as Dad requires much more oversight than your role as spouse.
The big news in my house today was that our 1.5-year old daughter said the word "yellow" for the first time. That may sound cliched if you don't have kids, but consider that not too long ago my daughter was an inanimate object--and not too long before that she didn't exist at all--and now she's pointing at yellow objects and saying "yellow". That's magical stuff.
Having a baby means you get to experience these small magical moments every day. Pre-baby, I was often getting caught up in minutiae which now seems so unimportant. I think the paths we all tend to naturally take--go to school, start a career (or a startup), climb the ladder, etc--conspire to make us slowly lose perspective. It sort of bleeds away over time. But having a baby smashes that all, and presses the reset button.
It's sort of like the syringe-full-of-adrenaline scene in Pulp Fiction, but in a good way.