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"i don't know what I'll replace it with" sums it up.
I got to try out MySync/Android Auto in a Ford Everest. I like it, and it worked great most of the time, except every once in a while randomly it would crash and bring you to the entertainment system's home screen, and the only way to get it to relaunch was by unplugging USB and plugging it back in. Also one time, the audio would not switch over to Android Auto, so even though it was connected and the UI worked, the radio was coming through. This persisted until the next time I used the vehicle (there was no way to just "reboot" the entertainment system)

I have not yet driven a vehicle where Bluetooth or USB to a phone works flawlessly.

at least we didn't ditch our audio jacks until the technology matured. oh wait
Replacing it is about 8 months away, so I haven’t done much research yet. There’s no shortage of options, though.
Have you considered not trying to find a car with good infotainment systems, but just replacing it? I have an earlier BMW (E61) and there's a custom-made Android integration for it that costs around $500, trivial when compared to the cost of a new vehicle.

I haven't bought one because as seen in another comment here I expect less of the car software than you apparently do, but when I looked into it it seemed to work well for people that tried it.

I was just thinking about this in relation to CarPlay last night. I’m so happy to have an interface that 1) isn’t garbage and 2) actually improves throughout the life of my car.

I also know that whatever car I go to, no matter how crappy the entertainment system is I get to use CarPlay and don’t have to worry about the OEM garbage. Slow? Ugly? Confusing? Who cares!

I’ve outsourced the entertainment system to a software company with a clue, and I couldn’t be happier.

My maps are real-time updated by Apple. I can listen to whatever new streaming app comes out next year and takes over the market. I have Siri for voice commands, not the awful thing built into my car.

Sorry car makers, you screwed up for too long. Now everyone just wants to bypass you with CarPlay (or Android Auto).

Unless they start doing the same thing the article describes, charging a subscription for CarPlay.

They literally added extra systems to disable it so they could charge rents.

And the system sucks and is unreliable, so people who pay the rent are regularly told they aren't entitled to use CarPlay.
Well that’s easy, I simply won’t buy a car where CarPlay is a subscription.

The market will decide.

Man, buy a normal multimedia player for the 2DIN slot.
Or a portable bluetooth speaker, which is useful outside the car too :)
There is no 2DIN slot on the F30 3 Series.
> There is no 2DIN slot on the F30 3 Series.

It is such an expensive car, but comes without the most basic luxuries. What a disappointment.

BMW 320d is not a fancy car by any means. You'd be better off getting a fully loaded Toyota/Honda/Acura rather than overpaying for BMW.
This issue of how fancy a bmw 320d might be is dealt with in the second sentence.
I read it. My point is that he overpays for the brand. The margin could have been spent on a more loaded, but less "fancy" brand.
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I think BMW has something going for it with fit and finish, but I’d agree you’d get more bang for the buck with an Asian car.
Holy cow you downvoters. Fancy BMW is 7 series. High taxes do not make cars fancier.
I drive one of those, have weird carplay trouble once a week or so. Pretty quick to solve with a reboot though.

Luxury car software tends to be pretty terrible.

It's a massive bummer that a luxury 7-series does not have good software, but it doesn't make the car less fancy. It has gorgeous interior, amazing fabrics, etc. The OP could simply acknowledge that BMW's software sucks. I'm pretty sure most brands have the same software installed on all of its models.
Oh yeah, it is weird to call a 320d a “luxury car”. Even in Nordic countries with super high taxes it’d be weird to describe anything below a 5-series as “luxury”.
If you live outside the big cities, a BMW is a pretty rare sight in Denmark, even if its just a 3-series.
A rare sight, sure. A ridiculously expensive car? Definitely. A luxury car? no.

There are a plenty of actual luxury cars in Denmark.

I guess it’s rather pointless to argue about where to put the bar for "luxury". For some, it might be Audi or BMW, for other it might be Ducati or Bentley, it’s not exactly a scientifically defined term.
Oh, this is certainly pretty pointless.

However these vehicle classifications tend to be fairly well standardized and “luxury” has a specific meaning.

Even in Denmark a 3-series will fall in the D-segment as a ”store mellemklassebil” and isn’t a “luksusbil” in the F-segment.

If everyone is driving Toyota Aygo or Citroën C1s, a BMW 3 is pretty damn fancy.
The thing has a diesel engine, it's in a different class than those cars. You'd have to get pretty wild with turbos to make any of them perform with similar torque && economy. Or step up to all electric drive which would be even more expensive.
Once again. BMW 3-series is not a fancy car. 5-series? Maybe. 7-series? Totally. If you care about things like CarPlay, It makes zero sense to get BMW 3, because you can get a fully loaded Acura for the same price.
Depends a lot on where you come from. BMW is very fancy in Denmark. In Switzerland, it’s one of the most common cars.
There's a flagged & dead comment in this thread that argues (in four snarky words) that a Tesla would be a better choice for a software-oriented car.

Snark aside, it's a fair point. If software quality is important, of all current manufacturers, Tesla seems the best fit since their product is as much software as it is car.

I don’t know. While they’re better than many OEMs I keep hearing that they e had Bluetooth bugs (like album art not showing) for something like 5 years that they just don’t seem to care to fix.
Does Tesla support CarPlay or Android Auto?
No, they have decided not to for some reason.
Well, it is really scary for them.

Cars buying decisions are becoming more and more about UX and entertainment experience rather than HP and engine specs and even driving experience. It is scary for them to cede control of UI and UX to Apple and Google.

Auto OEMs have can't beat Apple and Google as far as the head-unit is concerned. They should accept this and find better ways of differentiating their overall experience.

No.

This article is absolutely how I've come to feel about cars in the past 12-24 months. If a car doesn't have both CarPlay and Android Auto, I just won't get it[1]. It's like the top feature I care about after number of doors and the engine.

[1] - And there's no way I am paying extra to use it, sorry BMW.

$300 (for 20 years of use) is hardly anything when considering the total cost of a BMW.
BMW (uniquely) has moved to a new model that requires you to pay annually to use CarPlay. They do not support Android Auto.
There are two options. You pay $80/yr or $300 for 20 years. If you're leasing for 3 years then $80/yr is what you go with.
You're totally right, and it's <1% of the car, but perception is everything. BMW doing it the DIVX way[1] for a feature that's included on a Ford Focus rubs me the wrong way badly.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIVX

That's exactly the conclusion I've come to as well. My current car has CarPlay and there's no way I'll go back. And trying to charge me a monthly fee to use it is just insulting.
Same. My previous car had CarPlay and was totaled after about 10 months when someone hit me on the freeway. When I shopped around to replace it, I didn't even consider any car without CarPlay.
For people interested in Tesla's software quality standards, I found this link interesting.

https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughMuskSpam/comments/99sbwa/form...

Take it with a grain of salt, as I think it is sourced from the SomethingAwful forums.

"ssh to as many cars as possible in 15 minutes" oh lawd.
FWIW the bit about the Canadian kid hacking the slack is definitely true and doesn’t seem to exactly be public knowledge.

I’d assume the other stuff is true as well.

My biggest gripe with Tesla is their lack of carplay and android auto.

They offer their own navigation software to automatically plan charging stops on long trips, but for most trips I just want Waze and their excellent traffic aware routing and speed trap notices.

FWIW, the Tesla nav is traffic-aware. I believe it's based on Google Maps.
I've used both and I'm sorry but CarPlay is far inferior to Tesla's UI.

In addition, Tesla's screen is the only interface to the car's critical functions. They're not gonna hand it over to CarPlay unless they were to provide a separate screen for the purpose.

They could put CarPlay on just part of the screen (this is what Volvo does)
Tesla's touch UI design is great, the screen is huge and responsive, and the maps are imperfect but tolerable. But phone integration is lacking (messages, music control) and voice controls are primitive. What I want is to replace the Tesla map window with a CarPlay/Android Auto window, and Tesla voice control with Siri/Google Assistant. The rest of the UI can stay.
What's stopping you from using Waze in a Tesla? It has worked great for me in the past, and I assume would now as well.

This is like people who think that by using one browser you must "switch" and get rid of the others... no.

But the latest updates of the Tesla stuff are great so I can't remember the last time I used Waze.

CarPlay, I can't speak to, but I find the built-in music features just fine.

Yeah, it’s a shame that Tesla does’t have CarPlay. However nice Tesla’s interface is, most of what I want is access to stuff that I already have on my phone.
My dad recently ditched his Audi Q7. Not for exactly the same reasons but because of endless electronic glitches and downright bizarre behavior. Now he’s got an EcoBoost F150 and loves it.

Consumer-grade hardware & software is a wonderful demonstration of why aerospace and medical systems cost what they do.

> Consumer-grade hardware & software is a wonderful demonstration of why aerospace and medical systems cost what they do.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by this?

Sure. I’m talking about the general category of “software which must work, else people will die”. The difference between working 99.9% of the time, vs working 100% of the time appears to be very expensive.

Automakers and their suppliers could develop to the same standards but the software and associated hardware might well cost more than the rest of the vehicle. There’s no market for that.

They're not allowed to unpredictably and inexplicably fail like consumer stuff, but they're also orders of magnitude more expensive.
Even with that cost, you usually have to get device-specific training and sometimes certification to operate them. They also often have rigid operating procedures you are required to follow, with deviations possibly leading to fail-safe modes, audit, and/or recertification...
How so? It seems consumer hardware & software (phones, bluetooth speakers) work much better than expensive, name brand cars. I think this extends to aerospace and medical equipment, the manufactures of these devices know their industry and their engineering but are 5-10 years behind in the implementation and polish of basic things like bluetooth. Medical devices especially are notorious for poor security; unsecured endpoints, outdated/unsupported OS versions (think MRI machine with 20 year lifespan running Windows XP Embededed).
I was just talking to a friend about this. My main reason for not jumping on a Tesla is the lack of CarPlay. I would love it if automakers stuck to providing a great automobile platform and just implemented a standard computer interface for all devices to hook up. I don’t know when I will get a new car, but ditching CarPlay is not an option.
Are you aware that you can retrofit cars to support carplay and android auto?
True, but system integration is a mixed bag when you do. When it is built in originally, you are assured it will work w/ steering wheel controls, etc.

On the flipside, some manufacturers impose limitations on what you can do when driving, which is annoying, so after market might get around some of that?

On vehicles in which you can change the infotainment yeah. But this doesnt really go well for the tesla.

In addition, to my knowledge older Volkswagen AG vehicles are ripe for replacing the infotainment with a newer, carplay enabled system, but on newer models it seems that it is rather locked down and not as easy a solution as you suggest.

Some cars you can. If they have a standard 1- or 2-DIN radio, or an adapter for same, then yeah you can retrofit a CarPlay-capable radio.

But many newer cars have totally custom, integrated audio systems and retrofitting is either extremely expensive or impossible.

Yes, I have a Miata, which I modified for this purpose. I really like my CarPlay setup.
You can, however there's three problems.

Firstly from an aesthetic point of view they're hideous, you'll end up having to buy a plastic piece of crap to hold it in and aftermarket stereos are just not great, it won't be flush to the rest of the dash.

Secondly depending on your car a bunch of stuff that used to work with your car (forward/reverse sensors) might not show up any more.

Thirdly stalk adaptors costs a fortune.

You really want a car that has got that experience sorted and after driving a modern VW, I'd say a VW or Audi is probably the way to go. They'll have Carplay/Auto/Mirror and that's what you want. The experience of an aftermarket stereo is just not great.

Normal cars, yes. A Tesla… I don't think so. The infotainment center in the Tesla isn't in the DIN form factor, and it's tightly integrated with other vehicle functionality like HVAC controls, cruise control / Autopilot, battery status, etc. There's no way of replicating those features with an aftermarket stereo.
I haven't seen a car with a standard DIN1/2 amplifier in a very long time.

My last car, the "stereo" was just a control board with a screen and some buttons. The head-unit was actually under the seat. The space directly behind the stereo controller was air ducts and a center speaker.

If you actually owned a Tesla, I promise you wouldn't miss CarPlay. This is a complaint that seems to mainly be propagated by non-Tesla owners.
...if someone wants CarPlay enough to where they won't buy a Tesla, yeah, ofcourse the complaints are going to be from non-Tesla owners...
I own two Teslas and wish for CarPlay. Maps and voice recognition are much worse with Tesla’s software.
Nah, I have a 3, and here is what it lacks compared to Android Auto:

* Reading of messages

* Replying to messages

* Correct album covers for things like podcasts, audiobooks

* Playlist support

* Waze or Google Maps (yeah Tesla's maps are good, but they don't have road closure information which makes them pretty useless here in Michigan during the construction season. I often forgo Tesla's navigation and use Google Maps instead)

Sure, Tesla's software is better than pretty much any other automaker, but it's still lacking some critical features, at least in my opinion.

That's strange, because telsa maps ARE google maps, including traffic.

Most people just pull up tesla websites that support the tesla browser.

google "tesla friendly web sites"

The Tesla map tiles are from Google but the implementation of the app sucks. It doesn't preload tiles along your route so if you go out of mobile coverage it just draws blank rectangles which is hideous. There are many other defects.
It gets improved over time with frequent updates though, including new map data. And I don't know how stale your knowledge is on this, so I wouldn't be so sure this is a problem. People tend to repeat very old information a lot about Tesla, when reality has already moved on. I haven't had a problem with blank tiles in the last year or so and I've been plenty of places with low/no coverage.
How did humanity survive when none of this was even possible 20 years ago?
I am interested in the success of Tesla, I have invested in it. However, my current setup with CarPlay is just too comfortable for me to change it. Does Tesla offer a Zoom app already? That’s one of the latest feature of CarPlay that has greatly improved my day to day, handling meetings from my car.
I have a Tesla, mostly love the software, but I would far far prefer CarPlay.

Having to use my phone to select podcasts or songs or deal with texts is pretty damn backwards.

The integrated music service for Tesla is third rate and a bit embarrassing. I don't know why I have to be stuck with their terrible deal that they made many moons ago.

Just give me CarPlay or Android, Tesla.

I was worried about that too - because I loved the (apparent) simplicity of using Apple maps from my phone... until I actually got the Tesla and found voice navigation is way easier and flawless. (And in the very occasional situation I have an address on my phone now I can just share it to the Tesla). I don’t miss CarPlay (at least for the features I used).
Many/Most are fine without CarPlay in a Tesla. Tesla's software is very good, getting better and plays well with the rest of the car.
>CarPlay will be non-negotiable. I don’t want to have a separate computer system to manage in my car. I want to use the insanely powerful pocket computer I always have with me with my car’s audio system and display.

I agree, but even CarPlay is not flawless. And when something weird happens, it's hard to decide if the flaw is on the phone side or on the car side, since it's not clear how much is the responsibility of the car display.

But there are enough weird glitches when the phone is not plugged in at all.

CarPlay is almost entirely run by your phone.
Yes, but you still see little things like graphical glitches or an occasional audio pop that sounds like some buffer didn’t get refilled in time.

They’re rare but they happen.

At least on the phone side there's some likelihood it'll get patched. You're also more likely to get a new phone before you get a new car, even if you drive a luxury car and lease it.

My 2016 car has a bluetooth bug where it freezes the whole radio. I specifically avoided the higher end touchscreen model. The only way to reset the unit is to turn off the car (which can be problematic on the highway). I took it to the dealer and asked if there was a software update for the infotainment system and described my issue. They looked a bit confused at the idea of a software update.

Carplay has been a pretty buggy experience for me as well (in a Citroen). I'm not sure how much it's the fault of the car or the phone.

- sometimes nothing happens when I plug in the phone

- navigation instructions are sometimes barely audible even though the music is loud

- Siri sometimes gets stuck

It's nice when it works, but it still feels a lot like a beta.

Siri voice recognition is really bad. The car's built in voice navigation is much better (eg. the car will offer the top 3 choices when it's not sure, and I can just say "2" when number two is correct. Siri on the other hand will almost always try to send me to places hundreds of kilometers away....

Those are most likely all integration issues.

- the car can choose to always open carplay when the phone is plugged in, or it could use other signals to "intelligently" decide if it should open carplay. You can try seeing if it pops up depending on what state the UI is in (are you in a menu?), the time since you last interacted with the display, or whether or not the car is moving.

- likely an issue with attenuation on the car's side (if you're listening to music via the car; if music and navigation is through carplay that's an issue)

- car might be doing something to activate or pass through the microphone to the phone

Yeah, I’m not hoping for perfection. My iPhone is not perfect either, but Apple’s software is still in a very different league, quality wise, than BMW’s.
From my own understanding, it is much more difficult to work with the Apple bluetooth stack than the Android bluetooth stack, at least from a non-Apple point of view.

Apple makes damn sure their products inter-operate, but they are not good about following Postel's law - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robustness_principle

> the double-clutch transmission is smooth

that car does not have a DCT

> I used to love that car. It’s the first nice car I’ve owned (in Denmark, there was a 225% tax (VAT included) on cars last I bought one, so most people get the smallest, crappiest car that can work for their needs).

Is this right? Apparently the base price for this car is around $60,000, so this person paid $195,000 ($60,000 + 2.25 * $60,000) for this car?

I feel that having no desire to spend money on such obviously material objects is a big "easy mode" in my life. It sucks to see so many people fall for all the luxury marketing and then go into debt to finance it.
This tbh. I see a car as an appliance to get from point A to point B.

Sure some cars are sexy and go fast, but you can't push them to the limit on the street, you're not on a track.

You may have missed the part where the author of the article lives a short drive from German autobahns, or perhaps you don't count driving in excess of 220 km/h as pushing the car to its limits.
Sucks? Absolutely not! Everyone who buys an expensive car has that much less disposable income, and won't be able to bid up the housing market to even more extreme heights than the combination of cheap credit and restricted zoning already causes. I hope they buy two.
It's a lease, I think. He mentions it in the article.
The vat is based on the import/manufacture price, and not the retail price, that you pay in other countries.
The eu vat directive requires it to be based on the retail price
i can speak to Israel. Base price on cars is more expensive, then you basically pay 100% tax on the base price of the car.

It makes cars a small fortune compared to the US. When I tell Israeli coworkers that I paid about $6K for a 3 year lease of my chevy volt (after state / utility company rebates), their mouths drop. That's basically free to them.

Also in Israel it used to be common that a benefit you got from your company was a car (because it wasn't taxed as income). It could be similar in other european countries? which hides the cost of the car from many of the consumers. Now, Israel taxes cars basically like income so its not as common a benefit you see anymore (employees would rather have cash than a car). The only reason to get a car as a benefit if for some reason the company can get the car cheaper than you could have gotten it yourself.

The "get a car from the job" used to be a common trick in Denmark years ago, but they changed the rules to you get taxed heavily for it, so it there’s not much to gain that way.
I think this was a thing in the US too back when taxes were higher, but of course we went the opposite direction ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
No, he said it's the first nice car he's owned. Then he listed why - the tax in Denmark. The obvious inference is that he no longer lives in Denmark.
According to the author blurb, he's in switzerland now. The 225% VAT in Denmark is why he'd never gotten a luxury car before and instead just got the cheapest thing that could fulfill his needs.
I can't believe the electorate tolerates this kind of thing over there.
Denmark scores 1st as best country to live in so they must do something right.
If you're referring to the United Nations World Happiness Report, know that the metrics they use to measure those scores are literally just a measure of how socialistic a country is.
And we can't believe you guys over there tolerate that homeless people in the streets or no free health care is a thing.
That must be wrong, I have the petrol equiavalent, a 320i and it cost me £32K brand new in the UK.
The 320i starts at £57K in Denmark
In Denmark, I would have, but I bought it after I moved to Switzerland, so I only paid a modest 8% VAT on the car.

Also, it was a demo-car, the price was around $42'000.

He said he's leasing it. Whatever that means in terms of the tax application.
Why don’t people buy cars in Germany or Sweden with such tax?
Because the government of Denmark has presumably thought of this obvious loophole and found a way to close it. I assume if someone buys a car in Germany or Sweden and wants to register it at their address in Denmark, the Danish bureaucracy says "sure, we'll give you the registration papers as soon as you pay the 225% tax on the purchase price of your new car".

It's similar when you buy a car in Oregon (no sales tax) and want to register it in Washington (10% sales tax). If that was a way around paying the tax, every single person in the state would be doing it. The government has thought of this as well. And if you say "oh, I'm even smarter than that, I simply won't register the car in Washington", that gets you a felony conviction when you're caught.

It's almost as if governments can anticipate some obvious loopholes and close them.

There's a legal way to avoid this sort of thing, which is to buy a cheap but upgradable vehicle and retrofit "parts", which usually aren't taxed at the same rate. The most famous example of this sort of thing is the "Chicken Tax":

https://www.econlib.org/archives/2018/03/why_the_chicken.htm...

So as a private consumer instead of buying a $100k BMW and that ends up costing $225k you'd buy the $100k one, and an entry level $50k base model, and have $75k left to spend on moving parts over before you'd break even.

When that's considered tax fraud and when it's considered perfectly legal will differ by country. I assume it isn't illegal for danes to buy a new engine, seats etc. for their existing cars without needing to change the VIN.

Exactly what happens in the Netherlands. Ford Mustang Ecoboost is €70k, a GT is €111k. For the difference of €41k you can easily put in a V8 with over 500 horsepower, change the wiring harness, change the ECU, brakes, suspension. For less than a GT you can pimp out your EcoBoost and create a better car.
> has presumably thought of this obvious loophole

So you don’t know

They have indeed. If you reside in Denmark, you are required to have Danish license plates (and thus to pay the aforementioned tax). Even if you have your official residence in Sweden, but you stay the night in Denmark a little too often, the tax authorities will deem that as residing in Denmark.

The chances of getting caught are high. If someone who dislikes you notices a car with Swedish plates staying the night too often, they might report you, and the fines for violation are terrifying, the tax itself with 50% on top if memory serves.

Yes, in Denmark you buy a car and pay the same amount in taxes, and then you pay half of that in taxes on top ;)

There is an exception for cars under 10.000, I think there the taxes are around 95%.

For that reason, Denmark is full of super small cars and well serviced bigger and older cars.

Yet, I guess the author now moved to Switzerland, at least the number plate does not look danish at all.

I read this in Jeremy Clarkson's voice and was much happier.
This is why I'm tempted to buy an older land cruiser and redo the interior instead of buying something new with a million buttons that will fail after 5 years.
The thing is that a 30 year old LC will cost you about as much as many decent new cars.
I was always pretty skeptical of CarPlay, honestly. Bluetooth audio + maps on a phone holder seemed like it was perfectly fine, and putting myself even further into the Apple ecosystem felt unnecessary. In short, I had always considered an auto's entertainment system/software to be something to ignore.

Renting a car with CarPlay for a week (and a reasonably long "commute" during that time) completely changed my mind. Typically the only reason I ever used a built in car display up to this point was...to set up my phone in Bluetooth. Suddenly I had familiar applications that made that screen useful: Maps, Overcast (podcasts), Messages (read aloud, not displayed, of course), etc. A phone in a holder is, of course, totally acceptable and fine, but as I'm just starting to consider buying my first car in almost a decade I'm suddenly looking at CarPlay as a requirement.

Other notes on this for those that are interested: A lot of cars with CarPlay also support Android Auto, and they always have a base system if you'd prefer not to use either. OP is talking about this from a luxury car perspective, but it's available in a really wide price range from entry to super-luxury.

You don't need car play it is a crap comparing to, for example, Teala's infotament.
I actually couldn't disagree more, I deeply dislike Tesla's infotainment center. It's a much larger version of "traditional" manufacturer's displays with more functionality that I want shoved into it.

I'd much prefer that display be an extension of my personal device. I don't want a new infotainment ecosystem with the manufacturer's choices baked in, I want the an extension of the one I'm going to keep using when I get out of the car, replete with my personal preferences for things like map applications, music, etc.

yeah, I've used Tesla's software, it's garbage compared to android auto.
i prefer my wife's Android Auto ('18 Nissan Rogue) to my '18 Model S :(
Huh, someone else with an '18 rogue.

Does your wife's have an issue where once in a while it refuses to go into AA, and you have to hard-reboot the infotainment system? Mine does this thing where AA icon shows up, touching it does does the click animation, but doesn't actually launch AA.

That's my only real complaint with the system, actually. Once in a while it just really doesn't want to launch AA. Once I'm in though... works great. (Okay, maybe the steering wheel could use a play/pause button, but that's minor)

Definitely has a similar issue now and then.
AA is a different beast than CarPlay.
This is interesting because I rather like Tesla's nav system and music. The browser is kinda lame but I have a phone for that.

Perhaps it was my coming from the crime against humanity that is CarWings in my old Nissan Leaf. I liked my Leaf, but there was nothing on the center console that wasn't better on my iPhone.

New Nissan Leafs support both CarPlay and Android Auto, thankfully.
From what I’ve seen most cars that support one support the other. It seems to be rare for a car to only support one of the two. Must be easy to implement both of you do one of them.
Most of the systems in-car are android based, so android-auto support is pretty much free; and iThings are so common that not supporting them would likely cost sales.
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good luck figuring out how to turn on your a/c without looking. I loved my old Ford Fusion because it was a touch interface but with raised and lowered plastic so you knew what you were pressing.

https://st.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/10/2015/11/2015-ford...

the newer fusions replaced controls with actual buttons which looks cheaper and doesn't make it any easier to figure out without looking. probably due to increased failures or simply cost savings

It comes on automatically when needed but thanks.
Cool, so it has an IR camera to sense my body temperature?
You can use the menu button and scroll wheel on the steering wheel and see the response in the dashboard.
I've been waffling on this, but my biggest concern about the center stack display is that it's far away from looking at the road. I've been using a suction cup RAM mount on the windshield for years with Waze up constantly on my phone, podcasts playing to the bluetooth or wired connection, and most importantly, I have to look slightly to the right to see the directions, not down and far away. Even then, it's refocusing on something close instead of staying with my eye focus on the middle distance. Someday I hope to switch to a HUD, but my 2010 Mazda Miata does not leave a lot of dash room to mount such a thing aftermarket.
I agree, I have Android Auto in my 2019 VW Tiguan. Its awesome but its very easy to spend more time than you think picking a playlist from spotify etc.

With your phone you know not to touch it when driving but the center console feels acceptable.

I had one close call where the car's auto breaking saved me from hitting a car that decided to turn without indicating. now I treat my centre console almost like my phone, I will use the console stopped at lights but not my phone.

glad to hear you've modified your driving habits!

i use voice control and steering wheel buttons only whilst driving, works well enough!

Does your VW have a microphone button? My 2017 golf does, and it works reasonably well with Google assistant.
To me, the size of display outweighs location by far. Also the fact that I don't have to worry about a suction cup or magnet or whatever letting go while I'm driving; also I don't have to glue anything to my dash.

To be clear, I hardly touch the infotainment screen while in motion. I can do almost everything I need to by voice, the only touch command is to choose an option from a list.

It would be nice to have a HUD projected on the windshield, but I don't find it distracting to look at the Infotainment screen.

that suction cup will not hold in the event of an accident and now your phone is a projectile. always put your phone away in a compartment and use handsfree.

no one will follow this advice, but no one will think they will be in an accident until they have a huge welt on their head and can't figure out why.

>that suction cup will not hold in the event of an accident and now your phone is a projectile.

I guess?

What do I do about the legally mandated 2-4lbs steel backed rear-view mirror that's required to be hand-removable without the use of tools in most places?

To be clear, i'm not saying you're wrong -- i'm saying that making a car a safe crash space will drive a person mad. It's practically impossible.

This. People underestimate the amount of force and damage small items can have in your car.
A projectile going forward, sure.

It might bounce but at that point there's way less energy involved and the accident's intense enough that a welt on my head is the least of my problems.

This guy or gal, folks. They know what will happen in an accident!

Never mind that people have been flung from cars in accidents, that cell phone? Can’t do any damage.

Physics.

When someone is flung from a car, I'm not really worried about the damage they will do.

And if you're in flinging territory, the cell phone is a rounding error compared to the windshield, and a lot more blunt too.

Physics!

Someone flung from a car won't damage you, but have a look at videos with crash test dummies, where a passenger in the back isn't wearing a seat belt. Them being flung in to the back of the driver's seat creates a huge impact.

The windshield won't be flung anywhere, but an electronic device will. Getting smashed in the face with an iPhone going 50Km/h is going to do some damage, rounded corners or not.

100 times this. As nice as the stuff in the center display is, it's too far away from the forward field of view to use. I've been using a suction cup to hold my phone as well but it's very frustrating - it falls off every few months especially during temperature changes.

I came to a compromise of using ~1/4" aluminum rods anchored in the forward vent and around inside the CD player to create a phone holder cradled above and slightly off to the right of the main dashboard. This creates a mechanically sturdy enclosure that I really wish cars would come with built in.

A HUD would be even better but I don't think I could ever trust a display driven by car manufacturers' software stacks.

Really can depend on the car too. I mostly love CarPlay in my Mazda[1]. My wife hates it in her Chevy Volt[2].

[1] Apple gives the car manufacturer the ability to truncate the length of scrollable lists while the car is in motion, which Mazda does. Nothing like only being able to see the first 15 items in a list of podcasts, or artists, or songs. I hate this. But otherwise the implementation is great, especially the integration between the car's physical controls and CarPlay. There's a steering wheel button to bring up Siri. There's direct physical button access to Maps, Now Playing, and the home screen. It would be nice if Apple allowed me to set Google Maps as the default mapping app, but Apple maps has become good enough most of the time. Aside, my 2016 CX-9 came w/o CarPlay. Mazda made it available as a DIY'able retrofit last year. The parts were a couple hundred dollars and it took a couple hours to retrofit.

[2] Once the entire entertainment system froze up and it didn't fix itself till like the next day. I've been meaning to check if there's an update from Chevy.

I'm an Android user, but have been considering switching to Apple, and it turns out that you can make GMaps or Waze the default mapping app for CarPlay. I was just reading about it as part of this thread.

https://9to5mac.com/2018/09/24/how-to-use-waze-on-carplay/

That's just putting a shortcut on the screen. It doesn't change any other defaults. Siri will still only open Apple Maps. Same with Calendar, iMessage, Contacts, etc.
“Give me directions to foo” - gives directions to foo in apple maps

“Give me directions to foo using Waze” - gives directions to do using Waze

This might be new, but it definitely works on the iOS 13 beta, although I’m pretty sure it worked on iOS 12. It would still be nicer if we could just set default apps

Yes Waze is great on Apple carplay. Perfect Speed camera warnings are a lifesaver here in Europe.
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Dont French cops take away every device showing speed cametad while driving?
You can do this with Android Auto - no need to swap to Apple!
That does not make Waze the default mapping app. 9to5mac is wrong. Changing the order of the apps is only cosmetic.
I had no idea the limiting of lists was at the option of the car maker. Interesting! I hate that aspect of it in my Honda.
Yup. At first I blamed Spotify. Then Apple. Then I learned it was Mazda to blame:

1. "Intelligently filter content when the vehicle is moving. Certain cars may cause CarPlay to truncate lists of content when the vehicle is in motion or has exceeded a certain speed."

2. contentLimitsEnforced: A Boolean value indicating whether contents limits are enforced by the content server.

3. enforcedContentItemsCount: Returns the number of content items that are displayed when content limiting is enforced.

[1] https://developer.apple.com/design/human-interface-guideline...

[2] https://developer.apple.com/documentation/mediaplayer/mpplay...

[3] https://developer.apple.com/documentation/mediaplayer/mpplay...

CarPlay worked fine on my Chevy Volt(s). I owned the later generations. It’s even better on my Bolt since it seems they figured out that everyone will either use CarPlay or Android Auto. The problem with the Volt(s) is that there didn’t seem to be a way to remotely update the HUD. This has changed with newer Bolts
I think most cars with CarPlay support Android Auto because most systems are essentially Android tablets.

And that's one thing I have noticed, Android pretty much owns the industrial market. Every touchscreen device you see in the wild is basically an Android device. Those payment kiosk things in restaurants, CarPlay, etc.

Well there’s a good reason for this: In this day and age it’s pretty much the ideal option. In fact I think android makes a horrible phone OS (not because it has no good features) but I’ve never had an android phone that didn’t become a battery sucking and unmanageable nightmare. And are high quality audio APIs available (I gave up caring a few years ago)

AFAIC, Android is best suited as an industrial OS. Before android it was Windows CE, which was even bigger garbage than Android, and of course now it is dead.

Alternatives are things like custom rolled Linux (and really why?) and RTOS/GUI platforms like vxworks, qnx.. they have their place. 90% of shit can just use stock android and whatever mods you need.

Linux serves as the hardware abstraction layer for Android. You’re going to need a “custom rolled” kernel for whatever platform you decide to launch in the car.
Yeah, I was just making the observation.

It does make sense, it's pretty customizable and a lot of the legwork is done for you.

I love Android as a mobile OS on my Pixel 2; especially with apps like MiXplorer (fully featured file manager). I can't count the number of times being able to plug in a flash drive and copy files to it has saved me.

Subjectively, running Android 10 on a Pixel 2, battery life has never been better, and apps running in the background sucking up my battery hasn't been a problem.

I've used the ubiquitous cheap Huawei and Xiaomi phones, and while they get the job done, the experience isn't nearly as good, as you have to deal with their UI and clutter. Unfortunate.

Last I knew, most of these stereos supporting CarPlay and Android Auto were running QNX, not Android.
Which manufacturer?

I have a Honda Civic and it's definitely an Android tablet shoved into the dash.

Yep. Honda has been shipping Android based systems since at least ‘16.
Yes, but that has no bearing on the ability of your car to run Android Auto. You cannot run it on the hardware that's built into the car. If you want Android Auto you must project it from a phone or tablet onto the display.
Yes, but the core system is an Android tablet in my car. That is my point. I would imagine that it's the same across Honda's entire fleet.

I was wondering which manufacturer was going QNX instead.

Most of the airplane seat-back media centers I’ve used seem to be running Android. Although I was just on an Air China flight that appeared to be using either Windows CE or QNX or something non-standard.
Last time I was on a flight and the infotainment screens all rebooted I saw the familiar Linux boot screen, Tux and all.
Yeah every time I've seen a IFE screen reboot it's been Linux. Some, like on a Singapore Air A380 even had Star Office available for use
I had trouble updating the console in our 2017 Suzuki[0] and extracted the update file - it was QNX

[0] the update instructions say to put the update file on a FAT32-formatted USB drive and plug in. The update file is 6GB and FAT32 has a 4 GB file size limit. Tried exFAT, UFS, and a few other file systems QNX has support for, no go with those.

Did the car you rented have a Play/Pause button on the steering wheel? That’s what I am missing the most: being able to quickly pause (and later resume) whatever I’m listening to through CarPlay because I need to pay attention to something that’s happening inside or outside the car. Reading the CarPlay documentation, it seems that it supports such a button, but it’s hard to find a list of cars that have one.
I believe the steering wheel had some basic media controls, but honestly I didn't end up using them very much. I found myself using Siri more than usual so I wouldn't need to spend too much time looking at buttons to figure out what they did, but I think I could get used to more buttons if it was my own vehicle and not a short term rental.
So on my Mom’s recent Honda we’ve (accidentally) discovered that pressing the volume knob like you would to turn off an old radio plays/pauses what you’re listening to.

Give that a try on any car you look at, you may find it works.

Thanks; I’ll double-check but I think pushing the volume button turns the whole infotainment system off. Which does pause whatever’s playing, but also turns off navigation or whatever else I had on the CarPlay screen.
Yes, this is one of my pet peeves too. The steering wheel has volume controls with press-to-mute, then right next to them are forward and back controls... a press on that control would be perfect for play/pause, but alas— no.
My volvo's big central volume control has a large play/pause button in the middle and it works to pause anything that Carplay is playing. There's also a play/pause control on the steering wheel. Overall, my 2016 Volvo does a pretty good job with Carplay integration, though it also has a bunch of native software that mostly sucks in comparison, such as a voice control that I've never been able to use.
So it turns out that if you turn the volume all the way down to zero, it pauses playback. And if you turn it up again, it starts playing. I didn’t test whether navigation messages from Maps can still be heard. Not perfect as it takes a few seconds to do when you might need an immediate pause to avoid distraction, but it’s probably good enough for me.
Also being able to control everything via Siri with actually competent speech recognition is a godsend compared to the several minutes of shouting in various accents that most in-built voice control systems require.

The need for internet access is slightly irritating however.

You mean Siri is actually usable while driving? Is there a “trick” to this?

I’ve yet to have it work a single time, and have just given up, after (in your own words) shouting at the car.

In my experience Siri over CarPlay is significantly more reliable (in that it understands me better over road noise) than Siri over Bluetooth audio (in both cases using the mic/speakers built into the car). FWIW phone calls also sound clearer when plugged in via USB. I’m guessing it’s because of poor audio quality for voice over Bluetooth in at least the cars I tried.
Hold the home button briefly (lower-left corner) for Siri on CarPlay. It’s actually fantastic.
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Really the only issue I have with carplay is

1. That I can't tell siri to play things on spotify, etc, although apparently siri support for spotify is coming. I'm on the iOS 13.1 beta but it's still not there

2. Carplay limits the listing of bands/albums/songs in the menu. I get that they don't want me visually scrolling through hundreds of albums while I'm driving, but since there's no carplay search, and I can't (yet) control spotify with siri, this means to play the music I want I have to pick up my phone and select my music from there. Much less safe than if they just listed all my music on the screen.

They list far more albums when the car is at a stop, but it's still not all of it. Scrolling through my artists gets me to about G before it stops listing.

Siri support for spotify really can't come soon enough for me.

I think Spotify needs to implement Siri support so I’m not surprised that it doesn’t work on the beta. I’m also excited for this integration because I loathe Apple Music. Spotify is so much better. It’s annoying that Spotify doesn’t work as wel natively. If Apple Music was just a Spotify clone, I’d happily switch to them just for the first party support, but they insist on making it different. Spotify’s interface and music organization is just so much better.
Yeah, after the latest beta release if I ask siri to play on spotify she says "Spotify hasn't set up playing from siri yet" or something along those lines. I'm gonna be a happy camper when it starts working.
The truncated lists are imposed by the car manufacturer, not Apple. I agree it's very annoying.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20833791

Apple provide the API, so this is just the car manufacturer doing "the right thing".

I think the wording may some "certain cars" enforce it because after-market head units may not be connected up to the speedometer and therefore have no way of including this information.

I assume the car companies asked for this functionality. Mazda's UI locks out a bunch of functionality when the car is in motion.
We have a Suzuki that’s supposed to disable most of the touch screen controls when driving (including the TV/DVD and changing any navigation settings aside from zoom), but the used car dealer we bought it from informed us that he had already disconnected that sensor as a routine service to us...
This whole time I thought 2 was just a terrible bug. It was one of the reasons I switched to android.
I find Carplay dangerous for my use case: As the interface follows what’s happening on the phone, you often lose the maps and directions as the guy controlling CarPlay need to check his messages

I have no idea how they’ve managed to design it like this, it’s like they only think single driver commuters would use it

This behavior is changing with iOS 13.
In iOS 13 they're conceding that this isn't how it's always used - a passenger might hook their phone to CarPlay, or the driver might hand their phone off for someone else to use.

That's releasing early next month. Probably a gold master build at the event on 9/10, with wide release following after that.

Good, that's one of my biggest pet peeves for CarPlay.

I'm also not a fan of Siri, would love to keep it disabled as I normally do, but CarPlay doesn't even start without it :/

I never thought that anyone other than the driver would want to connect their phone to the head unit in the car, regardless of how many other people might or might not also be in the car.

On further reflection, I think it's still overall not a good idea. If the driver wants to change the music being played, or the volume, or whatever, and there is a passenger in the car with them, then I would think it would be okay for the driver to have the passenger do that on their behalf. And that might affect the display.

But I guess I can wait to see if iOS 13 can change my mind.

Anecdote: I have only used CarPlay in rental cars, and every time I start driving while my wife connects her phone and gets directions and music going. It’s annoying that the map disappears when she checks her messages.
You are assuming that the driver's phone is the one connected. The typical use case is a couple, where either can drive. The first one to look up directions is the one who connects the phone. I do this all the time with my wife. Sometimes we have to disconnect one phone and connect the other so the passenger can continue using the phone without killing the map for the driver.
My kids usually manage the music, it's easy at the moment with an AUX lead so no real connection with the car. I can see as things are getting more connected this could have issues.
So glad right now that Apple took the bold step of removing the AUX plug. :)
I usually have someone driving me, but would strongly prefer to control the music. With Carplay, if I connect my phone in order to control the music I'll lose navigation if I use my phone for anything at all.

Best solution I've found so far was putting my Spotify account on my drivers phone, then I can change the music using my phone without messing up waze.

I use this all the time with my gf, I drive, she looks up a restaurant or something, opens maps to navigate to it and connects it to the car.

And after that she becomes annoyed she can't play Pokemon go or whatever game anymore :p

This is the most infuriating thing. Android Auto does it for some apps also, but it feels baked into the core experience of CarPlay. Given the choice between the two, this UX mishap alone makes me choose AA over CP even when I'm driving alone.
Classic Apple being run by old baby boomers move. Of course everybody in the world is commuting alone by car, why else would you use a car. We’d also all like more U2 forced onto our phones please.
I agree, I can't believe that was overlooked. I used Carplay for the first time a few weeks ago and I was blown away that Apple allowed it to be released - it feels really unpolished and slow, and the experience changes depending on what head unit you're using, just like Android's unpredictability. It doesn't feel like an Apple product at all.
It’s obvious why it’s designed that way: to reduce the distraction of using the phone while driving. If you have the dash showing one thing and you’re doing something else on the phone, you’re now potentially doubly distracted from operating the two ton lethal steel weapon you’re supposed to be paying attention to.

You may not agree with the design choice, but it’s completely obvious why they made it that way.

The case where then passenger needs to do something is rare enough when compared to the safety issues. In design you also need to weigh and make trade offs.

Last year I got a rental with CarPlay. It was the first time I had a system in a rental that didn’t seem more intent on downloading my contacts than on displaying nav info or playing music.
The first and last thing I do in every rental car I'm in is delete the stored contacts. You're all welcome.
Same here, but it's often damnably (maybe even purposefully) difficult to figure out how to do it.
It's funny you say that, because last time I had a rental with Android Auto it would not let me even start it without allowing access to my contacts and other details. I ended up not using it because of that.

The normal car bluetooth systems on the other hand don't mind if you don't give them access to things, and you can restrict it to music and calls only.

Maybe they just want to facilitate you by letting you voice your contact and send message or call your friends by voice. I don't have a car with Android Auto, can you deny the permission?
I use LineageOS which has something called PrivacyGuard. I can give the app permission to access my contacts but then deny it at the PrivacyGuard level. I'm pretty sure that it just returns an empty contact list in this case.
Interesting, I thought the PrivacyGuard and permissions were the same thing, except that the former gives you more control. I'll try that next time.
Yup, it is probably something like that. It wouldn't start without being granted the permissions though.
As a counterpoint, my VW in-car navigation integrates with the second screen, so I get glanceable navigation behind the steering wheel.

And, in Australia, it's very easy to lose mobile reception. Having usable maps on device is a must.

In iOS 13, manufacturers will be able to integrate the second screen with CarPlay. Whether or not they will is too be seen.
That feature is my least favourite part of Android Auto - using it on the main display hides the navigation behind the steering wheel. I really hope this can be fixed.
That's the main reason I still use built-in navigation rather than from my phone.
I really liked Android Auto, but I think a recent update has screwed it up, so that any audio app frequently switches to Amazon Music. (https://support.google.com/androidauto/thread/8646291?hl=en)
Add to the LOOOONG list of "I really liked X but a recent update has screwed it up". It's amazing how often this happens.
This was happening to me (and many others). I disabled notifications in the Amazon Music app and the switching has stopped.

I still get an occasional dropout where the song gets really quiet for a few seconds but my Spotify app keeps running and no longer switches to Amazon Music randomly.

You can always add a CarPlay compatible aftermarket infotainment panel.
But then you lose the ability to control various parts of your car, because these are often controlled through the entertainment system...
I really just want my car to drive and to last a long time.

Aren’t these screens almost entirely bad? In 10 years, screens in cars will be the new smoking, except that they kill other people, and the NYT will be full of editorials about how they snuck up on society and caused so many accidents - who could have known?

I hope we have self driving cars in 10 years...
> CarPlay as a requirement

Why don't you loose your requirement to just 2DIN space to install your favourite Car Play compatible gadget into?

Because a lot of manufacturers put control of the car's settings in the stock head unit. You'd have to swap it out if you want to change a particular setting.

What I'd be willing to compromise on is an external screen that will handle CarPlay or Android Auto. I can't seem to find one out there.

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Why not just use CarPlay on your phone with the phone holder? Is it not exactly the same as a car with built in CarPlay? Atleast on android auto I noticed no difference between the App on my phone and connecting my phone to my car's Android Auto.
That mode is not available with CarPlay, it is also deprecated on Android Auto (for a voice control setup, I believe).
The whole point of CarPlay is that it’s on the built in screen. Many states have laws now that prohibit operating any sort of handheld device while driving (and yes, a phone or even GPS unit in a mount still counts as handheld)
That's really dumb, phones now have 6"+ screens and are way more powerful than any head unit in a car... "Many states have laws now that prohibit operating any sort of handheld device while driving" I don't believe you, otherwise most uber drivers, food delivery drivers and taxi drivers would be getting pulled over by the police.
https://www.germanautolabs.com/blog/mobile-phone-driving-ban...

Maybe not the authoritative source but interacting with a phone while driving is indeed illegal in all of Europe.

You are wrong, in the ad absurdum extrapolation in this thread that using a phone for navigation is illegal in “all of Europe”.

You presumably meant EU, a part but not all of Europe, but that too is wrong. For example, the law in the Czech Republic, a member state of EU, states that it forbidden to hold a phone (or other handheld device), in hand or otherwise (e.g. between shoulder and ear) while driving (§ 125c / 1f) 1. z. č. 361/2000 Sb.).

Handheld devices probably are illegal to use while driving in all of EU while being (hand)held, but absolutely not when mounted and used in the same manner as car’s builtin display. It may be the case in some country, but is not true generally.

I got a leaf about 6 mo ago and it has carplay/android auto. This makes the infotainment/nav stuff no car maker ever could be arsed to do proper, completely moot.

It’s a requirement from now on! :)

I keep saying that an EV with carplay has made me look at a car differently - it’s a chassis with a battery. Choose the size of both according to what fits, say, 99.9% of all trips. For someone who lives in a city and have a charger in the garage of course this is a luxury, but to me it just makes so much sense.

I have a 2017 BMW X3 with every option. The Bluetooth integration is terrible. It did force me to move my music service to Spotify (which is the only music service BMW supports.) Turns out Spotify is awesome, but BMW's integration of it is awful. Sometimes I travel in complete silence in protest of my BMW's Bluetooth flakiness.

I continue to use it because Sirius XM horrific sound quality is always there, whereas Bluetooth occasional does what it's supposed to.

The BMW Connected app provides more frustration than value. I use it on occasion, when I've forgotten about how terrible it is.

I loathe voice control systems of all kinds, doesn't matter how good they are. I hate both talking to computers and listening to computers "talk". The first thing I do when I get in a new car is turn off the voice.

You can get map updates much cheaper from people hanging out in BMW user Internet forums who sell them for $50. If you're a computer person and can follow instructions you can save a lot of money on map updates.

So long as your car has an AUX port a $10 Bluetooth->AUX dongle will solve your problems - you can bypass the OEM bluetooth completely.

It works wonders for me (similar model to B018WV3F50 on Amazon).

Why not just hook up directly to aux then?
With what? There'no more analog out on smartphones. Also, you're wearing out the plugs over time.
My phone is in my pocket most of the time, I just press play in the dongle to resume music I played at home. Even when it’s hanging on a hook on the dashboard I don’t want to fuss with the wires.
Huh. I have a 2017 BMW 230i and Bluetooth pretty much works flawlessly for me.
That blows my mind. I bought a 2019 Hyundai Santa Fe and see no reason to use google maps because the factory infotainment is so good. Bluetooth is super reliable. I considered BMW, Audi when shopping but just could not pay $15k more for luxury.
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I have a 120d from 2008. No SatNav, nothing, just a CD player, a radio and a 6 speed manual gear box.
So buy a new radio and have it installed... I agree that idrive is crap but you can replace it for $400
I have similar but slightly different issues with my 2018 3-series BMW. For most things, I think the BMW apps are actually better than what you get from CarPlay. For example, the BMW GPS makes better use of screen real estate. (On the other hand, Apple seems to do a better job of accounting for traffic in route planning.)

The one puzzling omission from the BMW software is support for podcasts. For that, CarPlay is the only usable solution.

One major irritant is connecting and disconnecting. This is especially bad when there are multiple iPhones in the car. (I know, what are the odds, amirite?) I had my iPhone plugged in via USB, and playing music. My wife was using her iPhone, which the car decided to connect to CarPlay. And certain actions on her phone somehow confused the iDrive system to stop playing music and bring up her iPhone on the display.

I wish that car manufacturers would either get it right, or turn the whole thing over to Apple. These intermediate solutions just suck.

>For example, the BMW GPS makes better use of screen real estate

FWIW, with the G12 this cost like $30 on ebay to fix. (And $10 for the bmw ethernet ODB cable)

I have a 2018 3 as well. CarPlay is ok, but the maps only uses 2/3 of the screen. However it was a cool feature of “send to bmw nav.”

I had the odd multi phone behavior so I bought a “usb condom” that blocks data and only allows power. I keep this plugged in for charging and pair only with wifi/Bluetooth.

This stops for me the fighting of multiple phones taking over

You don't need car play it is a crap comparing to, for example, Teala's infotament.
Ran into this issue way back in 2005 when I bought my first modern-ish car (Subaru Legacy.) I'd always just replaced the radio with something decent and modern every few years in previous cars, but in this one the audio system was integrated into the HVAC controls and you couldn't replace it. So, no adding aux input jacks, nothing. I sold that car after 2 years and bought a car that had a standard double din head unit.

I have a JVC head unit in my car now that does car play/android auto, exterior cameras, etc. I will never buy another car without an upgradable stereo. This usually means I'm shopping on the lower end of the market, but that's worth it to not be stuck with auto manufacturer's software.

Carplay is definitely non-negotiable.

Car companies are NOT in the business of building infotainment systems. They are in the business of building cars. A while back, to compete and differentiate themselves, they all started to build their own touch screen systems with their own custom interfaces. All of them sucked. Even the ones that were the best of their class still sucked. Not only that, every single interface was different. Going from car-to-car meant re-learning a new system. They all have limited resources to throw at this problem so everything is sub-par. It's like going to McDonalds for good coffee -- no, you go to a coffee shop if you want good coffee. McDonalds just provides coffee because they have to. Same is true for car manufacturers.

Trusting the OEM is just a bad idea. It is better for everyone involved to give this responsibility to those who are good at it. Apple and Google both have huge ecosystems of accessories and application developers -- not to mention massive user bases. Apple and Google have entire teams dedicated to integrating with auto makers and ensuring that the experience is consistent across all vehicles.

So why would you want to pay thousands of dollars more to get, for example, a navigation experience on your car that sucks balls? Instead you can plug in your smartphone – which some have arguably more computing power than a lot of commodity PC's sold in the last few years – and have a vastly superior experience.

Too bad none of them differentiated themselves by not putting anything.

I'd love to buy a luxury car that lets me hook up my iPad for all infotainment and GPS. Just give me a nice simple dock that looks good with the rest of the fit and finish.

That's also a killer idea. A lot of people do this in the aftermarket world, but it would be unreasonable to expect you to "BYOD" for basic infotainment purposes. There needs to be _soemthing_ there for the people who don't have devices, or just need to make a quick run to the store and don't want to grab their ipad and dock it etc...
I bet they could just throw in an iPad cheaper than whatever it costs them to build their terrible custom solution.
It doesn't cost them much. They just mark up the feature when they sell the car because they can.
That was the especially galling part about all these OEM infotainment systems -- they were charging like $1200 for the equivalent functionality of a Kindle Fire.
My 2011 Subaru Forester's "infotainment" is a TomTom GPS with a few extra hooks into the cars radio. It's absolute trash, but you can remove the GPS entirely and the radio/CD player/AUX still works with a small button only interface.

I've dreamed about being able to dock my phone in place of that shitty GPS.

google for 'carname' + "tesla style stereo"

get one before tariffs kick in. you're welcome.

I think Toyota have docking stations as option on some of their cars, but only for rear passengers. Attached to the back of the front seats, for kids to watch stuff on a tablet.
That's called a 2 din car stereo slot :D
Yup. Easily found in economy vehicles but not often in luxury cars.
Porsche CarPlay is fantastic.
An iPad is not going to survive in a parked car in the hot sun. Supposedly that's the reason that Tesla's have the "dog mode" aka "Cabin Overheat Protection". Their cars will cool themselves down to prevent the big touchscreens from being destroyed by high temperatures.
That, and they would probably be stolen.
Strange - one of my former supervisors had modded his truck's center console to use a Android tablet of some sort (don't recall which one, but it was fairly high-end - maybe one of the Samsungs) - it was basically "built-in" and non-removable; in fact, if you didn't know, you'd believe that it was OEM (it was a very clean install he'd done).

I'm in Phoenix, Arizona - and even in the middle of summer, with the sun beating down and turning the inside of every vehicle into an impromptu slow cooker (seriously - you can slow-cook in your car here in Arizona; that is, if you don't mind your car smelling like a working kitchen afterward), the LCD never had any problems that I could see.

I was honestly very surprised, as LCDs are normally very temperature sensitive (more to cold than to heat - but I would think that the temperatures inside a car in the summertime would be hot enough to cause problems). Usually, though, whatever the temperature - if the LCD has problems, once it comes back within it's normal range it will start working properly again.

Wherever that “supposed” claim comes from is BS. They have the dog mode to prevent dogs from cooking, and you explicitly enable it when leaving a dog in the car. Hence the name.
I think it’s partially for maintenance/surveillance, depending on your degree of skepticism.

Alternatively, the more bloat they cram into the machines, the more they can charge.

I’d love a car that was just a car, a set of speakers, and A/C.

> I’d love a car that was just a car, a set of speakers, and A/C.

My 2004 TJ is pretty much that - it's dash is reminiscent of the basic dash I had in my old 94 Ranger.

In an original Wrangler (ie - pre-JK, 2 door), the dash is pretty "small" - there isn't a lot of room between its front and the firewall - so while it seems like a lot is crammed in there, it also makes fishing wires and such fairly easy (coupled with the bareness of the interior - custom wiring is a dream - just lay it down and zip-tie it to the rollbar in most cases).

The "center console" area is almost designed to be modded, and plenty of people have done it. But if you want to keep it stock, it is pretty bare-bones. You can even get it with a cigarette lighter -and- a DC power outlet (I should also note that one mod that I've seen was kinda neat - stowing a small inverter behind the passenger speaker area with the "plug" mounted nearby on the side or underneath the dash area).

The downside is that it isn't a new vehicle - but I have the "bulletproof" 4.0 I6 - so even with it's mileage, I'm not worried. There's also the fact that the interior is...spartan (and the body isn't designed to protect you in an accident - not a big deal, as usually most cars that get into accidents with Wranglers disintegrate, while the Wrangler is usually drivable - might have to take a hammer to some parts first). Despite it being basic, though, the AC works incredibly well here in Phoenix!

Oh - and terrible gas mileage - there's that - though having a lift, 33" ATs, and a rear tire carrier don't help either (I've heard that you can get up to 16 mpg with a TJ on stock tires and no lift - but I ain't changing mine - I'm fine with 12 mpg - smiles per gallon, man).

But...but...if you can live with all that...you too can own a wallet that cries itself to sleep every night.

Every company other than Tesla. Their infotainment + driver assist system is quite good.
Agreed. I'm happy that my Tesla doesn't have CarPlay. I don't need my messages showing up on screen or constantly being read to me, I use driving time to decompress after a day of being social with my coworkers.
Will a Tesla sync w/ your calendar so that when you get in it to drive to an appointment, it already knows where to take you?

For the record I also use my driving time solely for the purpose of driving. CarPlay doesn’t have to mean annoying interruptions.

Yep. The car has a calendar app which can be configured to pop up on entry. Calendar sync is handled through the Tesla app on your phone, which also acts a share destination for locations (automatically entering the location in the nav system) and other such conveniences.
You can turn on do not disturb if you don't want messages or notifications, you can even make it automatic as part of driving. AND you can get map navigation that isn't in a phone.
I would gladly take CarPlay in my Tesla over the current system. Slacker is fine but it's not great and I prefer my preferences over those that Tesla chooses. On top of that, I have my phone set to DnD while Driving and that would extend to CarPlay also so my messages wouldn't pop up or bother me.
Agreed. I've driven a Bolt with CarPlay and it's better than my Model 3. Tesla's Siri (or any mic input) is ridiculously slow. They're both Google Maps but my phone already knows my locations. Other apps (like podcast app) as others have said is great.
No. Every company including Tesla.

Tesla's system might be good right now, but they're unstable fiscally as a company and they have NO incentive to be excellent in designing software and maintaining old software far into the future. And Tesla might go belly-up, at which point their ability to maintain said software declines to zero.

> All of them sucked.

I have a Mazda 3 skyactiv which is not a luxury car. The infotainment system is rather very solid. It's very responsive. I almost never had a problem with Bluetooth and I never needed to use the touch screen because the buttons UX is good enough.

Comparing to the other crap I've seen in the same category cars, I'd say the Japanese pulled a hell of a job.

Which year? My 2015 Mazda 3 Grand Touring has a kind of slow system. Boots slowly and a bit inconsistently. I've had lots of problems with Bluetooth (with three different phones, 2 Nexus and a Pixel), and often have to hold 3 buttons in to reboot the software. I've also had it black screen and reboot on its own. That being said, I used Mazda AIO Tweaks software to install Android Auto, and it's largely reliable. It does stutter when switching between music and navigation, and the music even stutters while turning if maps are on... but for the daily commute, it works fine.
I've also got a 2015 Mazda 3 GT and I absolutely love the system. It boots quickly and works really well. I got the CarPlay upgrade done though. Everyone that gets in thinks my car is brand new.
Is that a Mazda installed system? Do you know what version software you have? I know with mine, I had one of the last versions where a Mazda AIO Tweak install was easy. (Later they make it harder.) So maybe there were some improvements made to the official Mazda software in later versions.
Would also like to know if car play upgrade is possible, I'd love to buy the parts and do it myself.
I have the same model and if I start the car and walk away with my phone, good luck getting Bluetooth to reconnect thereafter. Have to shut the car down for it to reconnect with the phone. Other than that, everything else is excellent UX wise even the navigation, however it's outdated so phone mount + Waze works great.
Hmm. I never started the car and walked away with my phone. Can't think of a situation where I need to do that. But then my phone is big and doesn't fit in my pocket.
I bought it in 2018.
the only problem with my 2019 Mazda cx-5 system is that the maps are stuck in 2008. It works, but you still have to go through many levels of menus to search and find destinations. Thankfully it supports carplay.
The other problem is, even if the car comes with a good screen experience the manufacturer probably won't update it. (Tesla is good about this but a lot aren't.)

A friend of mine had an early-2000s Mercedes S-class. It was a very expensive car when it was new and still an amazing car in almost all respects -- except for the completely outdated, ugly DVD-based navigation system. He used a dashboard mount for his smartphone instead.

Even luxury cars made less than 10 years ago have screen software that feels very outdated compared to what a new Honda Civic comes with. The cars still drive great, but a significant part of the way you interact with them is obsolete.

I hope both Carplay and Android Auto continue to get regular updates and don't break backward compatibility, so a car that comes with one of those systems today won't feel obsolete in 5 years.

Cars have the same problem many other "smart" products have such as TVs and refrigerators: the technology lifecycle is significantly faster than the overall objects lifecycle.

It's not unreasonable to expect a fridge or TV to last 10 or 15 years. Yet, if it's "smart", and had a top-of-the-line processor put in it 10 years ago, today it would be equivalent to running an iPhone 3G. More likely, it was in development for a couple years, and was based on a cheaper/lower-end/older processor.

Cars have the same problem, but with the non-tech part being 5 digits $$$ instead of 3 or 4.

I think part of the problem is the manufacturers would rather you replace the entire thing (because the processor is outdated). Someone buying a new fridge every 3 years (instead of every 10-15) because theirs won't run the latest apps is great for them.

With cars, Android Auto and CarPlay have so far saved consumers from that nightmare.

Not related to cars, but your comment is exactly what I recently thought about infotainment systems on long haul flights. Annoying, sluggish to the point I don't want to navigate the menu since the response time is in order of seconds, and the UX is terrible in most of those interfaces. Furthermore, the content is randomly added (oh, you like Big Bang theory, here's episode 7 and 12 of the 4th series, and 1 and 10 of the 7th).

I don't know if these systems are outsourced or built in house by the airlines, but they make my blood boil every time. Especially considering that airlines pay the plane 100+ M$ but they save money on putting crappy Android tablets with a bloated software on it...

Like a lot of specialty industries, anything that goes on a plane requires a boatload of certifications and tests. Most consumer electronics companies aren't set up to run that gauntlet, so it falls to companies created specifically to do so. Naturally they tend to be lacking in traditional areas like software quality because they don't have the resources to attend to it.
Buying a car with too many software bells and whistles is a good way to buy a car that will look old within just a few years. The software built by the car companies is almost never updated in a major way. I remember when built-in GPS was an option for $1-2k extra on a new car... Five years later and the built in GPS interface looks ancient, and isn't nearly as functional as just using your phone anyway. I'll take a phone mounted to the dashboard over built-in GPS any day.

Every car company should provide some basics, like bluetooth connectivity, but aside from that, Android Auto and Apple Carplay are the ways to go. They get updated constantly and are made by companies with stakes in keeping them current. This way, I don't need to purchase a new car to get decent software.

The tesla is the opposite of that. The older teslas have been continuously upgraded to the latest software.

That said, there have been regressions in UI usability and some things that should have gotten attention haven't, such as USB audio.

I should mention USB audio is interesting because it allows you to play uncompressed music in FLAC and Apple Lossless directly (bluetooth does not)

Tesla is almost the exception that proves the rule though.
Someone please come back to this comment in 10 years.
I would go even farther - I don't want a screen in my car. I have enough of that in other devices. Give me a convenient place on the dashboard to attach a phone holder, and provide a nearby USB power port, and I'd be super happy. Focus on making the climate controls work great, and have great Bluetooth, and I'm all set.
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I'm with you! This is one reason I keep driving my '92 Rover and don't want a newer car.

Just make sure there's an 1/8" jack, too, so I don't have to deal with Bluetooth.

I don't know exactly who to blame, but the android auto experience in my 2017 vw is, in a word, infuriating. android auto deadlocks for the remainder of the drive 80% of the time I put it in reverse (I assume due to some resource contention with the backup camera?). this can only be fixed with a hard reset of the infotainment unit. of course, the unit has no manual reset. the only way I've found to fix it is to turn off the car, remove the keys from the ignition, and step outside the vehicle for about five minutes. it's great fun on road trips.