Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

I think there are some people who really want to do research more than anything else. They should do PhDs. People without this compulsion are probably better off doing something else.

I was joking with a friend the other day about interview questions which pick out the people most likely to succeed at research. The consensus was that this is the best discriminator:

"Do you ever wish that all your friends and family would just vanish so you could get more work done?"

Only place in industry that requires a PhD is Data Science. How interesting what you do there is depends on the company. In most cases as a Data Scientist you won't be doing much coding. Otherwise if you want to go in any other software development you don't need PhD, because as you said you don't want to be a researcher. That being said its very likely for your 9-5 programming job to be very boring and not what you expected so I suggest you don't completely rule out researching, because it probably won't get any more interesting than that.

> I choose to graduate soon, I will likely surrender my chance for a PhD.

Why? There must be a prof somewhere who is willing to accept you.

> I won't be able to find interesting work with just a MSc, and I'm really afraid of getting a boring software engineering gig.

You don't even need a MSc to get interesting work...

What do you find to be interesting work? Creating things, what sort of things?

In general I think if you are very unhappy it makes sense to change things up. It is possible to do a PhD later in life if you want to.

It might help you to change the area you live, get a job and see what that is like. It will help you see what is good and bad about academia and just working a normal job and that will let you make an informed decision about how to proceed.

Also I agree totally the interactive theorem proving is the future.

Get the PhD. You KNOW you can get it now. You may not be able to say the same thing in 5-7 years. Private industry will NOT penalize you for having additional education, and academia does NOT hold a monopoly on boredom. In fact, plenty of people are just earning a paycheck and can't remember the last time they felt satisfied professionally. In my experience, private industry gives PhD.s a lot of latitude to figure out what THEY want to do for the company. Does that sound interesting to you? Also, you mention that you are studying in a foreign country and are very unhappy there; do you mean the country, the university, or both? I ask because every country has an intellectual tradition that reflects its values and culture. Is it possible you would be happy in academia or private industry if you returned home?

No it won't, find a position in industry asap.

> "I don't particularly love studying"

> "I have no desire to become a professor/researcher"

I don't have a PhD, but my take is that if you don't like/want those things, then a PhD will be a big waste of time.

It sounds like you're in a situation that you don't currently like, and are hoping that a PhD will help solve that for you; but I suspect that you'll find that being in a PhD program will feel like more of the same.

Also, if you have published papers, and keep up with current research and publishing papers, then you _can_ go get a PhD after being in industry for awhile if you think it was a big mistake. You don't have to do one right after a masters.

I hope you figure out what you want to do - And good luck with whatever you decide!

If you had an opportunity to study AI for your PhD then it might be worth it. However, since your field is rather niche, I don't see how it would be that valuable to industry. My advice is that you need to get out of there, and get a job as soon as possible. You will realize that what you've learned at university and real world software development are really quite different.

I finished my PhD about a year ago (graduating in a month finally). First and foremost, graduating won't stop you from doing a PhD later. I initially took an industry job for a year and then chose to go back to academia.

I initially went back to academia with the perspective of either staying in academia or going into research, but after those four years I basically lost the will to stick in these fields.

Honestly if you don't have a particular subject or project you want to do for your PhD it's not worth going through it. I initially felt like you, that if I didn't do it I'd regret it, but now sometimes I wonder if the time I spent doing it was worth it ( and I actually wanted to do a specific thing).

It's way more important to just find a job that fits what you currently find interesting than it is to remain in academia hoping that a PhD is anywhere near what you hope it is.

Well, here are some thoughts:

1. What is "interesting work" to you? Everything depends on that. Would you be going into industry as a researcher? If not, a PhD may not be useful, and interactive theorem proving in particular doesn't seem relevant to industry.

2. Many people get their PhD at a different institution than their previous degree(s), so I don't understand the choice you think you're facing.

3. It's perfectly possible to step away from university study and come back. I had a ~2 year gap before starting my PhD.

4. Some PhD research is very collaborative. Depends on what you're doing, where, and with who. Look up authors of papers you think are great, especially those with quite a few authors.

5. Research success is often as much about persistence as intelligence. Yes, sometimes you need to read papers all day, but it's with the goal of creating new things.

6. If you think you'd be miserable while doing a PhD, you'd be crazy to do it.

How is your mental health? A PhD takes a significant toll on the mental health of a large chunk of the students. It is hard work, you are paid peanuts and sometimes the completion joy is not worth it.

If you are not enjoying what you do, you are doubly at risk of developing mental health issues. As someone with a PhD and who works in academia, a PhD is just a degree. It is not worth the risk of depression.

As a 5th grade dropout who is a fully self-taught developer, I did Interview, mentor, and supervised a multiple of developers with masters and PhDs to help them understand and get comfortable in the real world of the IT industry, sure they are probably "smarter", faster researchers, more organized than me but I have the experience to put together the big picture, cover the edge cases, account for common mistakes in the domain, understand the market and the clients mentality etc... most of that won't be covered by a PhD.

Noone started his career with a bunch of experience, you'll get boring jobs, you'll encounter annoying bosses or clients, you'll have stress and deadlines pressure, you'll be forced to develop things that don't match "your idea" of quality, you'll probably have some imposter syndrome... these are just common parts of the industry especially for newcomers.

The best advice would be if you're not looking to go into academia then don't go for PhD, it's a waste of time you can use that time to grind through the industry and get that experience. Another important thing IMHO is that no matter how cool your field is, no matter how much you like it, if it fells under the deadlines, pressure, and stress wheel you'll not enjoy it, you'll find something else that seems more fun and you'll wish if you can do that instead!

I would say if you want maximum fun and then have fun on side-projects, open-source, or freelance on the side

> , I will likely surrender my chance for a PhD.

I don't think this is completely valid. I know a handful of people I graduated with both undergrad and grad, who went into industry for a year or two and then went back to study for a PhD. I wouldn't say it's a common path, but it happens..

In your case, you may benefit from a 2 year stint in the workforce IMHO

Entry to a PhD program is not something that is dangled like a golden carrot as the promise of an interesting life. Anyone offering such a lure is more likely looking for cheap graduate student labour and you should run a mile away.

In reality, if you are self-funded or have a scholarship, and suitable grades, most academics will gladly take you on as a PhD candidate. There is no shortage of junior academics looking for people to maintain their labs, fix their equipment, and add their names to the end of some papers as a professional courtesy for fixing a few spelling mistakes. Sure, you might not get a position under a world-famous academic, but - especially if you have no interest staying in academia afterwards anyway - this has absolutely no impact on your future life whatsoever. If you're just interested in the letters P, H, and D after your name then you can study for that anywhere, anytime, on your terms.

From the limited context you've provided, I would recommend you do not continue on to this PhD. Do one later in life if you still feel it's warranted.

If you intend to go into industry, what is the industrial job market for interactive theorem proving? If it is not so good, then you will be doing a career change at the end of your PhD and at least part of the degree's value will have been lost.

All you said about yourself doesn't quite sound like you should get a PhD.

Also having a PhD doesn't automatically make your life more interesting.

Having a PhD will make you an expert in a narrow topic. So it most likely will lead to job opportunities inside this topic. If you love this topic, then it might help having a more fulfilling work life.

The problem is, it's not quite possible to really know if you're still interested that much in a topic after studying it for several years. You might be even sick of the topic after your PhD.

What you will take away from a PhD are some research skills that you could apply on different topics. But if you don't like and enjoy researching, then I don't quite see what you will really take away from a PhD.

Get the PhD (unless you really feel like it is going to mentally destroy you)

In my 20 years career in tech (dotcoms, startups, academia), there have been several times when having a PhD would have come in handy for pay bumps, funding, new jobs, and interesting projects, etc.

It looks like you're an American expat studying in Germany.

A lot of PhD's there go directly into industry, so much so that's from my observation it's the norm instead of the outlier.

You would likely only surrender the chance for a PhD at your institution - and even then, only with your Chair. Funded PhDs are treated like a job and you more or less apply for them just like any other job opening. If you don't like what you are researching, but you are interested in holding employment that involves research, I would recommend looking for a funded PhD at another institution. Applicants with a technical background are at a premium in other fields, so you wouldn't even necessarily have to worry about sticking with CS.

So, here's my recommendation:

1.) Stick with your current research for the rest of the academic year. It gives you something to do while you're looking for employment.

2.) Start browsing one of the many job boards for EU academic positions. Find something you like.

3.) Start browsing any of the job boards for private employment - EU, US, or otherwise.

4.) Do a couple of interviews. If you find something you like, whether in academia or the private sector, go with it.

5.) If you don't find anything, and if you're offered the PhD position at your university, think hard about whether or not you want to take it. Research as a PhD is different (you're treated more like an employee).

Also think about what you don't like about your current research and where you live. Are you dissatisfied because of cultural reasons - which is definitely an issue in the expat community - or are you dissatisfied because of your line or research or your academic environment?

You seem to flag a lot of things that you don't like which boil down to you don't like research very much. And that's pretty much what a PhD is. It also tends to be something very specific and narrow. This doesn't preclude you from taking your PhD and branching out into something broader down the road, but the value prop of a PhD, if you will, is that you're a world expert in some specific area.

The other downside of not just getting industry experience is that a lot of PhD research is very, well, academic. Wrote a book recently (something else that involves lots of time in a library and elsewhere reading and writing on your own) and a lot of the papers I used for research were pretty much crap and disconnected from anything in the real world.

Its a mind blowing thing to me that people study for that long, not really even starting their career until their 30's, to get a Ph.D - That said, if you are that close, and having this serious of thoughts about what is the right decision, and it will only take this extra 8 months to set you on the right path, then just do it. btw what country are you in?

A PhD will make close to zero difference to the quality of job you get, so if you're thinking that an MSc will get you a boring job but a PhD would get you an interesting job that's absolutely not the case. I speak as someone who has had a long and fulfilling career in software engineering in spite of having a music degree, and knowing people with strong quantitative PhDs doing very boring work. (I would say they aren't "stuck" other than in their own perception however). It's on you to find yourself interesting work though - PhD or no, it's not going to land in your lap.

Secondly, it's definitely not the case that if you don't get a PhD now you'll never get one, however in all likelihood it will be much harder later on. In my experience, people's responsibilities and commitments (personal and work-wise) grow constantly and it only gets more and more difficult to find time for things in future.

It sounds like 9 months doesn't give you a PhD, 9 months gives you potentially the opportunity of a PhD. So it's a theoretical minimum and when you're looking at this, you should calculate on the PhD take longer. Be wary of sunk cost. Having invested time in getting an MSc, it's easy to think "9 months isn't that long given how much I've done so far" without thinking through whether the goal is worth achieving in itself.

tl;dr: Get a PhD because you want a PhD. Probably don't get a PhD thinking it will make some sort of difference to your job prospects.

As someone who has a PhD in informatics, I would say it's only worth it if you (mostly) like doing what is required for getting the actual PhD (research, writing papers, giving presentations - often to an audience that is not really interested in what you have to say but still has to grade you).

Having the PhD is not that useful unless you want to be a professor / academic researcher. In my case I work for a Japanese governmental research institute, which hires both PhDs and "supporting staff". Supporting staff have less freedom and have temporary contracts. No-one really gets paid that well. In terms of work, I'm still coding a lot, but also need to read and write many papers, proposals, etc.

I would say there are limited number of fields where having PhD is an assumed norm, and would influence your hire-ability. Molecular biology is one of those, from my experience?

Your time is probably better spent interviewing, networking or searching for internships.

Your idea of how PhD works seems quite bleak, from what I heard, it can be a bit more creative/involved version of things you already do for your MSc thesis.

So if you hate MSc, but really like the research you do, and your advisor and research-group, I would consider staying. Especially if they know how to write grant-proposals ;)

If you don't like the research, run.