Ask HN: How to get good at social media?

146 points by thrwaway69 ↗ HN
I feel absolutely shit when I am trying to be relevant by spamming the trending tags, repeating what is already there in the form of SEO spam, email spamming, asking people to subscribe to thing they probably don't even care about.

How do you handle this?

Trying to keep track of what's trending tires me out. Why is it always hate, hate and hate. Why is it always politics or some celebrity expressing their "concerns" or cute puppies.

75 comments

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Practice?

Seriously though, isn't this like everything? Stop trying to shortcut it and actually put in the work. The people that grew massively overnight are outliers. The other 99.9999% put in time and effort to cultivate the following they wanted.

What sort of audience do you want? What do they want to see? Put your ego aside, answer those questions, then create genuinely engaging content that ticks that box and isn't a rehash of every other account in the same niche. If you can't offer something different, why would I follow you instead of them?

Yeah I get it. Found something to remove toxicity from my feed.

And sorry I can't give you an upvote because that would ruin the number. :)

Edit: someone ruined the number :(

He's is basicaly telling you to have a niche.

Once you have that, you can now use a trickle down process that exposes you to the audience via local celebrities of the niche.

That's how things "blow up".

Yeah, exactly.

Make a pair of canvas basketball boots covered in pictures of unicorns and sell them to the 200 people that are desperately in love with unicorns and have always wanted a pair of canvas basketball boots covered in them. Much easier (/cheaper!) than making a bad copy of a pair of Nike Jordan and trying to sell them to everyone already buying Jordan's.

In other words, start a small, high-engagement Instagram account that photoshops baseball caps and jerseys onto cats, then do something similar again and again, then start leveraging your audience into the more generic offerings after... You liked this, then try this as well.

I don't see numbers- one of us is the "control" ...
Same. I don't see vote counts, there's no downvote buttons, and no "report" or "flag" link anywhere on HN for me.
To flag, I think you can click the "X hours ago" - that's actually a link, and flagging will be an option if you look carefully. I know they were experimenting a long time ago (apparently still are) with making upvote counts invisible. It's been a long time. The idea of 7000 upvotes on a comment is an order of magnitude for what I've ever heard of.
These and other treats will arrive as you get higher karma levels.
What you need to do to promote yourself and still sleep well at night is come up with good content, and bring it up when relevant. You can easily become an outrage or clickbait factory, but that’s no fun; likewise, spamming SEO, trying to get people to do things that they don’t want to do, like subscribe to your content, pay you, or even pay attention to you is difficult if they have no reason to do so. You don’t have to “optimize”, either: not everyone ends up being hugely popular, but you can still be known for something you’re proud of.
By following trend tags etc you are trying to copy what the big players ARE doing. What you should be doing instead is what they WERE doing when they weren't big.

Focus on SOMEone before going for EVERYone.

If you are small and try to reach everyone, you're spreading yourself too thin to reach anybody at all. And reaching a small group already gives you a tiny playing field to accidentally go viral one day.

You cannot be "good" at social media in the abstract. You have to be providing the kind of entertainment people want. Yes, hate is a kind of entertainment, although an extremely unsavoury one.

Trying to piggy-back a top trend when you're unrelated is also doomed. It's just spam. As you've noticed, trying to get people who don't care to sign up to something that you evidently don't care about either is futile and demoralising.

You have to have a niche. You have to be relevant to people, not topics. Oh, and the advice is radically different depending on platform; I'm mostly HN/Twitter. Few of us is pretty enough for Instagram.

Absolutely. TBH, Instagram is not a suitable platform to do this. It's not so much lined-up as Twitter. I mean you can play around with the fancy lined-up on Instagram when one visited your profile but it doesn't deliver the main purpose of using social media for engagement. IMO.
> I feel absolutely shit when I am trying to be relevant

Sounds like you should stop. Obsessing over social media isn't healthy and unless (perhaps even if) you're doing it professionally I very much doubt it's going to bring you value proportional to it's (negative) emotional and psychological impact.

I think one tweet that stood out to me not sure who it was by is that each social media platform requires a different set of skills to be good at it.

So I think the best step is to pick one social media platform and study people who have successfully gained traction on that specific platform.

What's your product ? What added value is it offering to your prospects compared to other's product ? Who are your prospects ?

I'd suggest getting your hand on a marketing 101 book or online courses, take the shortcut here by learning from others and stop trying out things at random.

And depending on your business: be prepared to shell out money in ads. Be very careful. If you don't know how then it's the time yet.

Why do you care?

I'm going to take the opposite view here, and advise you that if see Social Media as full of hate (which it is in my view), then Social Media is not for you. I recommend you leave it to those who enjoy that sort of toxic interaction, and focus on something you actually enjoy.

In the offline world, much of what "trends" is stuff that hacks people's reward system.

E.g., high-fructose corn syrup, french fries, nicotine, slot machines.

It's bad for us long term, but satisfies our evolved physiological needs in the short term.

Most of the trending content on social media is the same, and much of modern news and commerce has adapted to it.

From what you've said, you're trying to win at the same game, against people/companies who are far more experienced, skilled, resourced and cynical than you.

The answer: don't play that game.

Find a small niche of people you can satisfy with earnestly good quality content.

Think really small - like, 5-10 people, who you can get to know personally and whose interests you can address really really well.

Then grow gradually.

It will seem painfully slow at first, but with a consistent effort over a long enough period of time, you can achieve exponential growth and eventually build a huge audience that really cares about what you have to offer.

One of the best people to follow for guidance on how to do this is Seth Godin. Follow his daily blogs/emails, and read his books, particularly Linchpin, Permission Marketing, Purple Cow and The Dip.

Simon Sinek is another person worth paying attention to.

> Find a small niche of people you can satisfy with earnestly good quality content.

To do that, you need to find what's the online place(s) where they meet (forums, FB groups, subreddit, blogs...) or even create one yourself

If you are targeting 5-10 people (as suggested) you can easily create this space yourself.
Joshua/WOPR: A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?
> It will seem painfully slow at first, but with a consistent effort over a long enough period of time, you can achieve exponential growth

This is the part most people don't get. A great example is Jonny Giger. He's a skateboarder most people have never heard of. He's pro, has his own youtube channel which now has around 380K followers. He rides for a company most people have never heard of called Revive.

He basically hacked the entire industry. His first pro video part was just released a few months ago. He's been creating his videos for EIGHT YEARS to grow his audience, and do it his own way. Because of the revenue he makes on his channel, he literally has no need for big corporate sponsors, or to constantly put on insane video parts or do well in contests to stay relevant like most pro's have to do these days.

He puts up regular content about learning tricks and revisiting old tricks that haven't been done in a long time. He has a whole series where he's just trying to learn some of Rodney Mullen's hardest tricks. In my mind, he's a legit pro and is a really skilled skater. The cool thing is he's done it completely on his own, instead of taking the normal route. Yes, it can be done, but it didn't happen over night did it? No, it didn't. It was dogged persistence on his part and sticking with something I'm sure people told him was impossible, or wasn't going to happen.

As insular as the skateboard industry is, I'm glad there are guys out there like Jonny getting it done on their own terms.

+1 for Jonny Giger mention. That guy is awesome.
But stay away from anything Sam Ovens. Jokes aside, it’s actually worth watching the free email list webinar. Watch until the end for a masterclass on the art of the hard sell. He spends 90% of the video tearing the customer apart and making them weak and responsive. It will likely make you feel even worse about sales but it’s probably effective.
Work towards a niche.

Then announce it to the world. Although getting "followers" or "retweets" as a vindication of your online presence is not a metric that should be pursued. Its futile.

(comment deleted)
oh, the whole proccess of seo is an experiment. there is no accurate formula for success, however, there are some tips and tricks.

what social media you are talking about? reddit, facebook, youtube, twitter?

A few things to consider:

Why do you want to get good at social media? You mention spamming tags and subscribing to things that they don't care about.

What is the outcome you want from this?

Getting a lot of likes/RTs? Getting a lot of followers?

If that's the outcome you want, then it sounds more like you want some form of community where you can feel appreciated or encouraged. Social Media is a vacuum of constant churn, and you won't find fulfillment there.

There are exceptions, but I strongly recommend thinking about what things you like to do and try to find your community in real life where the reward is so much higher.

Join a tabletop game club, take French cooking classes, go to some Yoga meetups.

I know now is not an opportune time to go out and meet people, but it's a hell of a lot healthier for your mind and body to be around real people when the time comes. Don't waste your time on social media right now. Build yourself up, learn something new, create something cool. If you get one of those things done, share it on social media if you want, and maybe you'll find some cool people who share your passions or interests.

Pretty sure OP is trying to grow a community/following about a relevant subject so his marketing is effective.
I get the vibes that thrwaway69 does it professionally. Maybe some social media manager job? In that case a tabletop game club will not be helpful.
No. I wouldn't use any popular social media if I could. It's for promotion of a project.

To expand on the problem, I have only once or twice susbcribed to an email listing. I consider all the other spam, irrelevant and Will never check them unless forced (some sites do even when you pay them) and other missed to opt out. I don't like seeing people spamming follow me or subscribe to me everywhere either. I know the functionality is there and I would if I want to. I don't care about most of what brands post? I don't want to see a corporate puppy in my feed. I don't want to know that you have a discount running and retweeting this will give a hypothetical chance of winning a giveaway if I have no need for the product. I don't consider businesses intrusive tracking and analytics everywhere ethical. I don't want to participate in signalling that businesses do. Most businesses need to make money and pretending they care more beyond is ughh. Most social media UX sucks. It's unintuitive to use and horrible (see twitter). I have the google paradox, if you can easily find it on google why do I need to share it to you? This is wrong pattern of thinking but this does make me tired mentally when posting something.

Obviously, the problem is entirely me

I keep trying but deep down, I don't even want to support the platform by engaging on them.

It just feels bad to have an ulterior motive behind posting a cute puppy pic.

> It just feels bad to have an ulterior motive behind posting a cute puppy pic

Is your project about puppies? If not then don't spam it!

It's low value marketing and you feel bad because you are deliberately trying to trick people. Maybe try to get your product in front of people who actually want it.

I'm not saying "use Facebook", because that doesn't seem responsible these days. However, you can use it and tune out the puppy picks, and just use chat, events, and maybe picture sharing; ie. what Facebook should be for from the perspective of end-users.
Is your project something targeted at a general populace? How large the following do you need for it to succeed?

As other commenters mentioned, all the puppies, celebrities, politicians, and everything else you see in the "social media" are precisely the things that work on the vast majority of people. Things that pull on the strings which seem to be directly attached to our most primal instincts.

We all have those instincts, and we're all vulnerable to their exploitation. I think that the majority of people either are not aware or don't really care about being manipulated, as long as they get their fun in the end. If you're going to need the widespread support of tens of thousands or more, then you have no other way than to provide them what they - consciously or not - (came to) expect.

In the infinite diversity of human characters, though, some people are aware of the hidden (in plain sight...) dangers and manipulation techniques and do not want to be targeted by them. They're a tiny minority (again, in my experience), but thanks to the Internet, you can find a number of them. I get the feeling that you're a part of that "crowd" and that you'd be happier targeting just them. Try to think it through. How many people do you really need in your network for the project to succeed? Can you get away with just the ones you share a mindset with? If so, don't bother searching for them in the mainstream. The time you'd spend feeling bad and hesitating to post another puppy can be better spent by looking outside of the puppy-infested hate-laden cesspool of popular opinion.

This may sound elitist, but it's really not. Being in the minority and preferring to stay within that minority is a perfectly natural thing to do. You don't really have to do any coming out if you don't need it. Stay where you feel comfortable, or at least start from there. It could take you more time to accomplish whatever it is you want, but you'll be much happier along the way.

My advice if you actually really need widespread support and fast: hire a firm which will do this for you. As many others said in this thread, they are pros at this game, and you're not going to get results better than them by yourself, even if you ruin your mental health many times over.

People love to say stuff like this, but the truth is these things aren't mutually exclusive. Having a big network can help lead to opportunities to connect IRL. That (should be) the point of social media, or a big part of it.

Where it's really useful is in connecting together casual acquaintances, in a way that wasn't really possible before. If I meet someone IRL, I can friend them on Facebook, interact, see similar interests, and meet-up. Before, this was much harder. I couldn't see that this one person I had a great conversation a month ago with is really looking for people to play board games. It's easier to know that an old friend actually doesn't live that far from you now.

Obviously, there are issues with this (eg. MLM), and it doesn't always happen. However, Facebook at least, is clearly a useful tool. So I don't know what people are talking about when they say "don't social media, socialize IRL". Not necessarily what you were saying, and you were addressing specific statements from OP, but I thought this needed to be pointed out.

It's not that different from other social endeavors. If you don't have existing social connections, meaning people don't know who you are, it's tough. If you're already "famous" you could be posting third-rate content and get decent engagement. Even if you get a few posts to go viral it doesn't help you in the big scheme of things if you cannot convert it into a relationship.

At the end of the day it's all people on the other side. Think how to get them to like YOU, not your posts.

Being good at social media is not worth much by itself. What is the actual goal? Selling something?
What's the end goal for which you feel you need to get good at social media?

The thing to consider about "social media" is it's a term that's taken out of the pages of 1984, like the Ministry of Peace. It's social in the way that social experiments or popularity contests are "social", not as in hanging out with friends and feeling good.

There are many, many people whose entire job is to get good at jumping through these hoops, and even then most of them fail. So the best thing you can do for yourself is decide you're not a monkey or a lab rat.

I'm guessing you have in mind something you'd like to promote, even if it's just yourself and your thoughts. And I second the suggestion to build a tiny audience at first. Even if it's just 5 people who absolutely love what you do - that's a start.

The way to get these people is to step out of dystopia-land and recall how it works in real life, and mimicking that in whatever social network you feel is most relevant to your objectives. For me, that social network is LinkedIn. [I left any others I was on.]

I've written an entire detailed article on how to take this approach, which is different to the traditional "gain a following", but ends up building actual relationships. You might find stuff in it relevant to your needs.

https://medium.com/skill-strong/how-to-network-on-linkedin-w...

I help run a small all-volunteer non-profit that advocates for trail access for mountain bikes (CRAMBA - https://cramba.org), along with trail maintenance, design, building, etc. I've found the best way to get a good response on social media for promoting our topics is to have them be relevant to the audience.

Literally, posts and things that are stuff people are interested in (new trails, COVID-19 closure info, trail conditions, asking what they did on the trails this past weekend) get very good engagement and they get info out there. Stuff that's only peripherally related trying to gain likes and followers and whatnot just seem... meh.

So, the short answer to what works for us? Not trying to game things and providing actual, nice content. It also keeps our audience very focused.

Stop using it and get Actual Work done
It seems unclear whether you approach it from a professional or an individual basis. You mention spamming the trending tags which sounds like a blackhat marketing tactic. Do you want to promote your product or to become more involved at a personal level?
You need to find your inner voice first, and your best fit? Each medium has its own population and style. Start from the one you like the most and be yourself.
You're copying the wrong behaviour. The marketing staff at XCorp engage in all kinds of marketing that you likelh don't want;the behaviour you are describing is either a deliberate brand awareness campaign, or an accidental pursuit of likes/follows ignoring engagement (often an easy way to boost your appraisal).

For small companies and projects:

Focus on your niche. If it isn't relevant, don't send it. Determine a relevance bar and stick to it (when you get settled you can try playing with this if you care)

Set a limit to how much you send, and over which channels. Set a target as well. Don't lower quality to meet target.

Set up triggers for relevant events (your competitors trending, HN/core forum discussions on your topic) and have a small list of things to do when they happen.

Don't. Just don't.

Social media has proven to be a least common denominator gutter that worships outrage and chumbox spam. Either have bots make the snausage by filling the world with crap for money, or be at peace without approval in relative obscurity with worthwhile content and less money. There's not much middle-ground because it's half-stepping to not go all-in and focus one way or the other. Personally, IDGAF and would do the latter if I was forced to but don't really care what random, cyberdisinhibited people think because it's usually time-wasting noise.

Haha you nailed it :) I was thinking exactly the same before I clicked the link to open the discussion.

EDIT: That said, if you like brainless Zombies, I heard that Instagram can be good for dating. Just go to a cafe every day and post a picture of your mug, to prove to the world that you're rich and have lots of free time.

It's up to you how you are using the tools. I use instagram to share the photos I took. Some people like them. Not liking social media is not yet on the level if "I do not read books" smug superiority, but getting there. Believe it or not there are things that are good on social media. Even on FB. E. g. in my country a grassroot initiative to help medics with PPE started by a celebrity raised more than two million euros in a month and purchased and distributed lots of so needed equipment.

And, if you dislike social media that much, maybe you should not comment on HN either.

Yeah, it's funny how the people who critisize social media the most are the people who don't understand it at all.

The machine learning Twittersphere remains one of the best places to learn machine learning tips. Insta is amazing for photography.

A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.
The only winning move is not to play.
Don't post everything mindlessly by following the latest trends. Instead, focus on a niche you're good at, a topic that interests you and you have the experience, and you will get dedicated followers who want to follow that topic.