Just what I was thinking. I'm interested in hearing how long Flow was in development versus Asana (2+ years?). Considering Asana hasn't launched diddly, I'd say flow is the incumbent.
Has Asana really been in development for 2 years? Maybe someone should send them a copy of Dreaming in Code.
Edit: Wow, I just looked at their "feature list" again. Do you REALLY need LDAP integration? Does it really need to be written in an in-house language? Why does a todo list that's supposed to work just as well for a single user need Gantt charts and a wall on each todo item?
If anyone's ever used Quickbase, that's what the feature set makes it sound like.
I think you're mistaking a "closed, really private beta" with Duke Nukem Forever vaporware. There are hundreds of people using Asana with great success according to the videocast on their site. Organizations ranging from software companies, recruiting firms to biotech institutions.
<shameless solicitation >Speaking of which if anyone from Asana wants to give an invite to a 5 man Django shop, we'd love to test it out for you guys. My contact information is in my profile :)</ss>
As a user of Flow for the past few weeks, I've been blown away by its UI and usefulness. Unfortunately, the pricing seems a bit steep for personal use. I'd also like to see some clarity on how pricing works with groups of people.
How many examples of web apps can you give me, which are being sold directly to consumers for personal use? By personal use, I mean not for use at or for work. I can barely think of a handful and even those are quite often paid for by the buyer's employer as a perk or productivity investment.
What's the reasoning behind 'almost impossible'?
A price point of $40/2-to-4-users, or even $40/year, is much more thinkable for individuals/families than $120/year/person.
From the screenshots, it seems like it should be possible to have a cheaper capped-to-a-small-set-of-collaborators version that a family of 3-6 could use, but still charge business prices for more/arbitrary collaborators and other features.
(I have a friend who's been looking for a good app to coordinate family tasks with his wife; iPhone apps and simplicity/speed/reliability of interface are of paramount importance... but integration with web/email/desktop, following-features, and threads are all of negligible importance. Flow looks nice but overkill in features and price for this need.)
I think this is becoming (or always has been) a general truth. Customers now expect everything available on the internet to be free. But they're more than happy to pay money for things that aren't on the internet.
I'm not a Flow customer, but if it solves a problem for me I may signup (I gave up on Things, just started using Wunderlist, but delegating/collaborating are very useful features I've wished for...)
I pay for MobileMe b/c it gives me true over-the-air contact/calendar sync on my iPhone. If another solution came around, I might consider it, but could it be free? And if not free, less than $10/mo?
I also pay for Flickr for purely personal use, b/c I want to be able to share my photos and let my friends/family download full-res files.
I don't think the argument is whether or not the product is worth 10$, but whether or not people will think it's worth it, and pay. I don't think 14 days is enough time for a product like this to become indispensable to me, and for 120$/year it needs to be.
Would you pay $1000/month for the top 100 personal (not business related) sites that you visit in a given month?
If you're using it to help generate income, then it's a tiny price to pay. But the demo video shows "planning a party" as a use case and that can be done almost as effectively for $0 using email.
How is $10/mo expensive for this, or for anything in life?
That's where the disconnect is.
You seem to think that $10/mo is not expensive for anything in life.
I respectfully disagree. There are probably an infinite number of things for which $10/mo is too expensive, independent of how much money you actually have.
Would you pay me $10/mo to have me send you a random Mark Twain quote as a push notification to your device every day?
I'm not trying to nitpick - only pointing out that your worldview and ideas of what you would pay for don't match that of many/most people.
It seems to me Flow pricing is learning a valuable lesson from MobileMe
Not sure that MobileMe is the best example of this lesson.
I am a Flow user/lover. But if you are looking for a free alternative check out Wunderlist. No group features but similar. http://www.6wunderkinder.com/wunderlist/
Producteev (http://producteev.com ) has been around for a couple of months and really solid alternative IMHO, cross platform, free for individuals, and moving fast! We are very happy with it!
Yes. This seems like something that would be valuable to a business (Say a catering service or a party planning service or package delivery service or whatever).
Their video (and pricing) seems to indicate this.
For running a business that requires coordination among many people, the price is utterly reasonable (if not slightly cheap).
Great interface, which isn't a surprise from MetaLab. It's great to see such top notch work coming from Canadian companies, especially out of my home town (Victoria BC).
RTM doesn't offer any of the collaborative features that Flow does, nor do they have a native OS X app. I use RTM, but mostly as a simple TODO-list that is geo-enabled.
It is, when considering the value proposition over e.g. RTM is the collaboration. $99 isn't terrible but by itself it's really got nothing over the multitude of other GTD options. To use it to collaborate, for just me and the wife, it'd be $198/year, if I understand the pricing correctly.
I'd certainly pay the $99 for a family licence which could be, say, 2 install-everywhere keys plus one just for desktop (for the kids).
I personally would not be able to convince myself that my side project's execution is /better/ than something MetaLab (or any of the many companies I admire) built, but certainly it would be better suited to my personal itches.
That is not intended to be a comment on your execution though, I don't know what you've built.
What I would try to do is refine the niche that I am satisfying. There are a ton of task management applications out there, which means that there is a large number of ways people like to track and do their tasks, which means that something that solves your particular problems very well is going to satisfy more.
Flow is a great product and emphasizes the "ship sooner, rather than later" model. They had a set goal in mind, and with a relatively small team, managed to create a family of amazing apps in a short space of time. Kudos! Asana and any company that has 2-3 year development cycles could learn a lot from MetaLab.
Your welcome. In what way do you feel it is unrelated? I'm doing something in the group collaboration space. There were a bunch of other links posted. Some of which I hadn't ever heard of. I though it was a good contribution.
Log in. Create an item. Share the item. Let me know if you still think it is completely unrelated. Unrefined. yes. incomplete. yes. Full of bugs. Yes. But it is an mvp and I need all the feedback I can get. Even if it is a little persnickety.
Their intro video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxF7F5T-_Z8) is beautifully produced, but man does it make me uninterested in trying out Flow. The video presents a use case (planning a simple party) that already has multiple "free" solutions (SMS, Email, Cellphones...) which seems like a much easier approaches. Do people really want to assign todo items to their friends? I get that Flow is probably capable of much more, but I can't understand why they'd put so much effort into a well produced video that doesn't do anything to sell the product. Or maybe I'm alone in my reaction to it?
As you pointed out, the video was beautifully crafted and the tune used was quite catchy as well. It's called "Up From The South" by The Budos Band, in case anybody was looking for it.
I recognized it instantly and wondered how they were able to use it for a commercial video. I thought the licensing was too expensive to use a major label group?
Todo lists are a concept most people can already relate to, so there's no need to go to great lengths to explain why the product is useful. Instead they can get away with focusing on a whimsical use-case that's conducive to demos. So it's probably good that they picked a use case everyone can relate to, instead of focusing on a more realistic use case like tracking software bugs that only some people can relate to.
The use case may be relatable, but it's not a pain point use case, so why should I care? Has anyone really had trouble doing what they show in the video? Compare and contrast to 1000memories. In the same amount of time it shows 1000mem's advantages over existing solutions & presents a true value proposition to a usecase that is currently hard. Wufoo's recent video is another great example of getting this right.
I was trying to say that it's easy for people to imagine their own use cases for todo lists. Everyone already knows how to apply a todo list to their own life.
Thats what I thought at first, but to be honest it's pretty powerful. When you combine this with a small to medium company, I think its a strong solution.
The UI is absolutely gorgeous. And I thought the intro video was very well done. I've been looking for an alternative to Things.app for a while. OmniFocus is just too expensive and won't let me collaborate with my family members. I really like that you buy once and run anywhere as opposed to Omni's method of buying an individual app for Mac, iPhone, iPad. $10 a month seems like too much though. I would suggest a cheaper (free?) version for 1-2 users. That being said, I'm still signing up.
Very well designed. The quality is so well done in fact, that I'm surprised it's not behind a pay wall. This would be perfect for the iPad. I suppose giving us a 14-day play time should help convert.. but If I were MetaLab, i'd charge from day one.
Treat it like an iPhone app. plenty of folks waiting to click Install. Not only that, people tend to make time for the apps they pay vs. free apps. Get them to commit from day one. I think this is critical!
looks very professional to me, but...
you have to click on sign up to get any price information. if i´d be a "normal" user i´d perhaps had left the site before even knowing that it´s quite expensive.
the video is cool, though the voice sounds bored.
maybe a more interesting example and screenshots/videos of the mobile app versions could be included in the video.
i woulldn´t sign up without seeing how the mobile versions look.
but anyway, quite interesting! (kept me from finishing, ok starting with, my paper :)
I'd be very interested in hearing if someone from Flow could talk a bit about their client-side code. It appears to meld Backbone.js with Socket.IO, for live updates to models via remote collaboration...
I'm looking forward to writing a bunch about that. I'll be drafting a series of blog posts over the next little while that will cover our choices, problems, and experience developing the app so far--and, more importantly, going forward.
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[ 0.57 ms ] story [ 85.8 ms ] threadEdit: Wow, I just looked at their "feature list" again. Do you REALLY need LDAP integration? Does it really need to be written in an in-house language? Why does a todo list that's supposed to work just as well for a single user need Gantt charts and a wall on each todo item?
If anyone's ever used Quickbase, that's what the feature set makes it sound like.
<shameless solicitation >Speaking of which if anyone from Asana wants to give an invite to a 5 man Django shop, we'd love to test it out for you guys. My contact information is in my profile :)</ss>
From the screenshots, it seems like it should be possible to have a cheaper capped-to-a-small-set-of-collaborators version that a family of 3-6 could use, but still charge business prices for more/arbitrary collaborators and other features.
(I have a friend who's been looking for a good app to coordinate family tasks with his wife; iPhone apps and simplicity/speed/reliability of interface are of paramount importance... but integration with web/email/desktop, following-features, and threads are all of negligible importance. Flow looks nice but overkill in features and price for this need.)
MobileMe is also a desktop app though.
Regargless, my point is that there are very few web apps that people pay for to use outside of work.
I think this is becoming (or always has been) a general truth. Customers now expect everything available on the internet to be free. But they're more than happy to pay money for things that aren't on the internet.
Do you pay for any other apps?
However, I do pay for Netflix ($9/month) and TurboTax ($75/year) for non-business use. I used to pay for .Mac, as well.
It seems to me Flow pricing is learning a valuable lesson from MobileMe: if it's useful, people will pay.
I pay for MobileMe b/c it gives me true over-the-air contact/calendar sync on my iPhone. If another solution came around, I might consider it, but could it be free? And if not free, less than $10/mo?
I also pay for Flickr for purely personal use, b/c I want to be able to share my photos and let my friends/family download full-res files.
120$ buys a lot of egg salad sandwiches.
If you're using it to help generate income, then it's a tiny price to pay. But the demo video shows "planning a party" as a use case and that can be done almost as effectively for $0 using email.
That's where the disconnect is. You seem to think that $10/mo is not expensive for anything in life.
I respectfully disagree. There are probably an infinite number of things for which $10/mo is too expensive, independent of how much money you actually have.
Would you pay me $10/mo to have me send you a random Mark Twain quote as a push notification to your device every day?
I'm not trying to nitpick - only pointing out that your worldview and ideas of what you would pay for don't match that of many/most people.
It seems to me Flow pricing is learning a valuable lesson from MobileMe
Not sure that MobileMe is the best example of this lesson.
Their video (and pricing) seems to indicate this.
For running a business that requires coordination among many people, the price is utterly reasonable (if not slightly cheap).
An interesting lesson for all entrepreneurs as Asana has had a beta rolling since June of 2010. Plenty of time to get something to market.
Something > Nothing.
Let's hope both end with great products - I love the concept.
Funny I came in to say the "team collaboration" space seems terribly crowded.
I'd certainly pay the $99 for a family licence which could be, say, 2 install-everywhere keys plus one just for desktop (for the kids).
How do you guys respond to seeing something similar launched? Assure yourself that you have better execution?
That is not intended to be a comment on your execution though, I don't know what you've built.
What I would try to do is refine the niche that I am satisfying. There are a ton of task management applications out there, which means that there is a large number of ways people like to track and do their tasks, which means that something that solves your particular problems very well is going to satisfy more.
https://app.getflow.com/assets/standard_interface.js
Server (heroku):Models:
Collections Controllers:http://www.mindwallet.com
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNpAH7AGhIk
Log in. Create an item. Share the item. Let me know if you still think it is completely unrelated. Unrefined. yes. incomplete. yes. Full of bugs. Yes. But it is an mvp and I need all the feedback I can get. Even if it is a little persnickety.
Are they completely mad?
He's done quite a few iOS/Mac promo videos.
http://adamlisagor.com/
http://lonelysandwich.com/
Treat it like an iPhone app. plenty of folks waiting to click Install. Not only that, people tend to make time for the apps they pay vs. free apps. Get them to commit from day one. I think this is critical!
Regardless, Congrats! +1 for the Canada :D
In the App Store maybe, but not many people are waiting to pay for web apps.
the video is cool, though the voice sounds bored.
maybe a more interesting example and screenshots/videos of the mobile app versions could be included in the video. i woulldn´t sign up without seeing how the mobile versions look. but anyway, quite interesting! (kept me from finishing, ok starting with, my paper :)