Ask HN: As a person, what can I do to improve a city?

479 points by davidn20 ↗ HN
I live in a "Top 10 most dangerous cities in the U.S." What can I do to help? It seems like the most common solution for people who are educated and well off is to move. To get out of the situation, which is understandable. However, this causes a brain drain and leave the city in a worse place.

I don't want to do that, I want to uplift if I can. What is the micro thing I can do today, that can have a chance of a macro change tomorrow?

345 comments

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Get involved in the cities government by volunteering, or serving on a city commission. Just start showing up to city council meetings and start learning what is going on and who the players are. You’ll figure out a way to help there.
That right there is it. You'll have opportunity galore once you're privy to what's going on and what's needed.
Seconding the 'go to city council meetings.' Hearing first hand what goes on there will be helpful, and depending on the format, you can directly speak on issues you care about.
Agreed.

Just showing up has an impact. I guarantee that simply being present will change everyone's behavior. Most meetings most of the time have no audience. If you keep showing up, you'll eventually figure out what's what.

My next piece of advice is to get on your representative's calendar. Pick an issue, any issue. No matter how small. Like fixing potholes or improving a road crossing. State the problem, propose a solution, make an ask, be cordial. 5 minutes. Then do it again. You likely won't "win" at first. Tenacious wins in the long run. At some point, politicians will do what you ask, just to make you go away.

I guarantee that there's a local issue, the more local the better, that you care about, that needs your attention. Anything and everything you can imagine is on the agenda at some point during the year.

Looks like I'll need to do some research on the city government. Thanks!
Be present in public areas. Plant flowers.
Or put them in your hair. Or is that dated?
Cities are the way they are because people are desperate for work and the income to survive and they are the only visible supply.

Advocate for basic income. Specifically basic income without any local cost of living adjustment. Address the source of the problem.

A basic income without CoL adjustment fundamentally breaks the system forcing people to cram themselves into cities and compete over resources. It will result in people who decide to rely on it leaving cities and moving to lower cost of living areas (revitalizing those areas too) if cities don't serve their needs.

So, provide basic income and then magically wave a wand over anything in finite supply to keep it from inflating in price?
> magically

laws

> wave a wand

the guns that enforce the laws

Ask Venezuela how well their laws did at preventing inflation.
Laws to keep things from inflating in price have a bad history of unintended consequences. Rent control in particular.
Yes there will be inflation but it won't be unbounded and it won't be even everywhere. Cities will see increases faster because of higher demand, people on BI will have to move away from them. As long as BI is not locally CoL adjusted (Pinning to a National or State CoL value would be ok) supply and demand will adjust to the inflation.
That depends on where you can be most useful.

IMO: You could start a non-profit to train homeless/underprivileged people with vocational skills to get jobs, which would probably in the long run save some people from going down the wrong path...

Would you mind linking to the list you’re referring to?

My off-the-cuff thought was, “join Transportation Alternatives and push for more bike lanes, public transit, etc.”, as I see automobiles as one of the most significant dangers to both urban areas and even the planet. But when I google "ten most dangerous cities," they seem to list places whose danger is more poverty-driven.

Automobiles (and their drivers) kill, maim, or injure significantly fewer people than intentionally aggressive individuals in major cities. For example, in 2017 there were 343 murders in Baltimore [0] (which I knew would be on the list before looking for one) vs. 38 fatalities due to car accidents [1].

Here's an example of a list: https://www.statista.com/statistics/217685/most-dangerous-ci...

These lists are based on crime rates, which to my point above, are driven by more immediate threats to life than indirect ones like the contribution of car exhaust to global warming.

[0] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/baltimore-homicide-murder-rate-...

[1] http://www.city-data.com/accidents/acc-Baltimore-Maryland.ht...

That's highly misleading. Overall cars kill way more people than murderers (at least double) in America. Baltimore just happens to be at the top of the list for murders per capita and apparently slightly below average for auto fatalities. For most cities there is a greater chance of dying from a car crash than from being murdered.
OP did say "top 10 most dangerous cities in the US" and those studies usually don't count auto accidents.
It's not misleading for major cities that I'm aware of, and especially not so for the "most dangerous" ones that the parent brought up.

It doesn't "just happen" that I picked Baltimore, it's highly relevant to the topic the parent posted raised, even if you'd like to redirect the discussion elsewhere and it doesn't represent the US as a whole.

In addition to the effects of car pollution on health, education, etc., car infrastructure is also a big driver of segregation in cities, which leads to a lot of the social problems that engender violence. So shifting infrastructure away from cars is really relevant.
> So shifting infrastructure away from cars is really relevant.

Sorry, it's really not. No one murders another person because of policies that don't provide enough to support to public transportation.

A lot of freeways got built right in the middle of poor neighborhoods. I'm not saying there is a direct causal link with that and murders, but it's pretty hard to ignore the socio-economic effects of those massive infrastructure projects.
That's fair, but the person above seemed to be taking it to a logical extreme.
I think we generally underestimate the importance of social mixing in our society. Groups are less likely to see other groups as enemies if they're neighbors and take the same train to work every day. Poor people are less likely to feel excluded from society if they have friends from the middle class than if their whole neighborhood is on welfare.

Walkable neighborhoods with good infrastructure where a mixture of all strata of society live are, in my opinion, quite important if you want to prevent problems. Carcentric city planning is directly opposed to that.

Walkability isn't the issue in major cities, nor is proximity to other classes of people. In Baltimore (to stick with my original example), your likelihood of being a crime victim varies block to block, with one block being safe and the next being an open air drug market. That's not unusual for major cities in the US.
The flip side though it that your risk of being murdered is actually something you have a lot of control over. Cities with high murder rates typically have subgroups with extremely high rates of violence. So depending on your personal life and living situation automobiles could be the larger threat.
I think the point was that a street full of car traffic is much less liveable than a street full of cyclists and pedestrians.

Cars are still dangerous and noisy which leads to a stressful atmosphere. Many hide in their cars as if they were tanks, afraid of connecting with anyone outside.

What's needed instead is people coming together to form a community.

However during this pandemic, proximity has become a liability to the community.
I think the point is that the parent poster doesn't understand what metrics are used to determine these "most dangerous cities" lists.

Stress caused by car noise is way, way down the lists of issues in major cities.

The density is worse during a pandemic. That's why people are fleeing the cities.
Those are just the direct costs. Cars also make a lot of air pollution, which is the #1 killer worldwide. Enabling/enforcing sedentary life, noise pollution, crowding out streets are other indirect but large costs.

Edit: you could add in the costs of minimum parking requirements, which crowd out housing and increase housing prices.

Okay, but that's not what these types of lists take into consideration, partially because these are problems that are endemic in all cities.
I'm not sure it's right to generalize the danger of murder to have equal chance for everyone, in the same way that it is for the danger of the car
By comparison, there were 650 murders in the entire United Kingdom of 67 million people.

Something different needs to be tried. I would suggest looking at the Violence Reduction Unit: http://www.svru.co.uk/

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People driving instead of walking or bicycling will be in poorer health, so you'd have to account for that as well, plus the consequences of air pollution, stress from noise, etc.
Yep, those are the cities I'm referring too. I wanted to know what people can do to help poverty-stricken cities.
If you want to help some poor but able fellow, hire him / her to do some job, and pay reasonably well. Even a one-time job.

Acquring money is an obvious way to get out of poverty. But living on handouts kills morale.

I think you might be in a minority of people that hear "dangerous" and then think about transportation first. My guess would be most people think of danger as violent crimes. At the same time, people are aware of other types of accidental deaths, but may view those differently because they feel they have more control over them.
Transportation and crimes are related, if indirectly. In many major cities, it's hard to get a legit job if you don't have a car, because you can't get to work reliably. Folks who live in poverty and don't have access to legit work will do something to make money, and crimes ensue.

Bikes might not be a great solution in these areas -- they're easy to steal and somewhat unreliable due to weather and other factors. And, if somebody already feels that they're taking a risk hiring a poor person... is it going to help if they're showing up sweaty? Perceptions matter on both sides of the equation -- I won't apply for a job if I don't think that I'd last a week.

Rather than focus on the impact of cars, which is a bit of a "boil the ocean" solution, it would be directly impactful to fund a local restauranteur. It makes local jobs, and makes the neighborhood more livable and walkable.

If I had a billion dollars, I'd do an incubator for small, local businesses focused on sustainability, not disruption.

yeah, I mean, I'm definitely in the minority of what I think. My life is regularly threatened by reckless drivers, and being a strong, tall-ish white dude, I don't get messed with on the street very often.

That said, I think the numbers back up my perspective. Violent crime just isn't what it was back in the seventies, but we're still in the mindset that danger = criminals.

A few major urban areas with high cost of ownership and good alternative options aside, a car is a self-compounding step out of poverty to most poor people and their problem with them is one of cost.

To tell these people that cars are their problem is tone deaf at best. They have a million bigger problems.

Exactly. When you're an educated, middle class white person, it's easy to say "ditch the car! just get a place near transit. makes it easy to ride downtown to your office job".

What about the poor people who can't afford to live near transit? Or have jobs nowhere near transit? A car is often a requirement for them. And sure, maybe they can take a bus with a couple transfers, but then their commute goes from 45 mins to 90 mins.

Clearly, millions of middle-class Japanese people get by perfectly without a car.

Eastern Europe and Russia is not as rich, of course, but too could be example of huge territory with millions of people living whole their lives without car ownership.

But America isn't Japan or Eastern Europe.

Sure, redo all the public transit and then you can start asking people to ditch cars. But until then, you're handicapping them.

The op that started this didn't suggest people just ditch their cars. He suggested they try to improve their transportation infrastructure to make other modes of transport more of an option.
Pick up litter around your block. Smile and wave to neighbors. Become active in and or donate to community projects. Spread a general sense of kindness and support to others near you. These are the smallest and easiest things you can do that'll have an impact on people.
I echo this. I read someplace (can't recall now where) that once people see other trash in an area they are more likely to litter there themselves. Few people want to be the first to litter in the park, but if it is full of litter then who cares right?
This is the correct answer. Lead by example, start a movement and the political solutions will follow.
>Smile and wave to neighbors.

Yes. Increase "social capital."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_capital

I like to think of this as having a tremendous ripple effect - when I smile and thank the postman, he smiles at the next person he sees and maybe they're nice to the worker in the drive through at the restaurant, who goes home 1% less frustrated to their family.

Probably a bit overstated in that example, but if you walk around doing it consistently, I think that on average you're still making a small difference, while fighting apathy and politics of hate.

> Social capital

Interesting, I've always used this phrase to mean "I have a certain amount of energy to spend at a social event before having to go home and recharge." Example: "I spent all my social capital visiting my wife's parents yesterday, can we move game night to tomorrow night?"

TIL the phrase already has an actual meaning- one that's different. Thank you!

I know someone who has a great position at a well known financial firm. He had the cops called on him twice (he ends up taking long conference calls in his car outside).

The first time the cop was apologetic.

The second time the same cop recognizes him and says, "Dude, you have got to get to know your neighbors. Pie goes a long way."

Calls in cars are a nuisance. They are extremely loud for some reason in a way that music rarely is, piercing through a car's exterior.
Wait, he was just taking phone calls in a parked car? Is there something objectionable with that?

If my neighbors called the police on me for that, my first thought wouldn't be to bake pie for them.

If he was anything like the ones that sit in their car in my neighborhood, he probably also kept the car running. I wouldn’t call the cops, but I’ve pecked on a few windows asking them to turn it off. (Plus, I’d be genuinely shocked if a Redmond, WA cop actually showed up for something that didn’t involve blood or gunshots.)
Funny anecdote, two friends and I were sitting in a car in Eastern Europe in a rich neighbourhood (pretty much only VIPs and foreigners lived there).

We had some business with an army officer and he was busy with something so we had to wait.

About 20 minutes after we parked, an American woman comes and asks us what we're doing here and whether we need help.

That was weird because no one in our country does this, everyone minds their own business.

She did accept my explanation, but I had a feeling if we didn't move from there 10 minutes later she would've called the police on us :D

I (an American man) would probably have asked if you needed help but would never have called the cops. Long road trips are common in the US, so if someone is sitting in a car for a while my first reaction is "Maybe they're lost and the battery on their phone ran out. Should I ask if they need help with directions?"
Yeah, but this was in the city center, albeit on a pretty quiet street (surrounded by embassies and various government buildings). She seemed to want us gone more than helping us. I don't blame her, 3 people just sitting, talking in an Opel Omega is pretty suspicious by western standards :D
That behavior is not not (double negative intended) stereotypical for the kind of American woman who have the money to be able to travel internationally.
I think -- and I know as much about it as you do now -- from the neighbor's perspective it looks like: some stranger is outside my neighbor's (your) house in a car for hours. Is he casing the place? Why is he on the phone? Is he a lookout?
Love this. As the cliché goes, "be the change you want to see." Thanks!
In addition to being a quality human in these ways, I'd recommend googling "tactical urbanism." That means: do quick, low-cost interventions in your neighbourhood, like painting a mural on the street, building flower boxes, or creating a pocket park. (Should probably get permission, but for some things, just do it). This all helps attract people to the street and builds a sense of ownership, which encourages folks to make more improvements, creating self-reinforcing momentum. All this reduces local crime, both because of eyes-on-the-street and because it creates a feeling that people are paying attention and care about the place.

If you have abandoned commercial spaces, put art up in the empty windows to reduce the feeling that a place has been abandoned. If your streets feel dangerous because of traffic, work with local leaders to get approval for making low-cost changes to make it safer. For example, you can create sidewalk bumpouts using simple flower boxes. Talk to local lenders about what they can do to help local businesses get off the ground.

Be warned that if all this is successful, it risks leading to a big jump in housing prices, i.e., gentrification. Keep in mind that "gentrification" also tends to make local residents wealthier — it's not as simple as the usual picture in which locals are simply pushed out. However, it is important to start thinking now about solutions, because this will lead to some push-back. Ideally, the city or nonprofits should buy land now while property values are cheap to create housing trusts for low-income residents. This will always be a tough issue though.

There is a lot of small actions you can take locally to shift the momentum of your community. Lots of people have done it — you can do it.

Source: I'm an urban planner.

I could give you my email address if you would like to discuss further. There is lots of good research on all of this.
I'm not OP, but just bought a house in Golden, CO, and looking to do the same kind of things. Would you be willing to share your email address? My email is in my profile.
> Keep in mind that "gentrification" also tends to make local residents wealthier — it's not as simple as the usual picture in which locals are simply pushed out.

I'm genuinely curious to see your sources on this -- isn't displacement of original residents the primary definition of gentrification?

Not everyone is renting in the gentrified areas. If you own, your equity goes up in value.
But all you can do with that is take out debt or move away. In the mean time, your property taxes go up
The problem at the core of gentrification is that when people do end up moving away, those formal and informal networks which helped them all get by are torn into pieces. The problem at the core of uncompromising anti-gentrification is that without growth, the city will stagnate or decay, without any of the money that could make things better (both on an individual level and from the perspective of the city budget.)

Managing this is hard, and will expose a politician to the realities of messy tradeoffs. It's far harder to find the political will to make something work, and much more convenient to shout either "Progress!" or "Oppression!" and make hard problems harder.

In addition to increased equity, I’d argue original residents also have an opportunity to take advantage of the increase in commerce with increased foot traffic to existing businesses or creating and supporting new businesses.
Is there any evidence that putting art in empty windows actually helps? i see that a lot and I always find it kind of beseeching. Similarly my neighborhood has been putting up murals as an attempt to spur business development and it feels like I'm being sold on the neighborhood all the time.

here's a particularly egregious example: https://doc-0s-ak-mymaps.googleusercontent.com/untrusted/hos...

It's frustrating that graffiti is seen so negatively. of course I'm against vandalism and it certainly doesn't belong on building facades but I'd take a wall of mediocre graffiti that's constantly refreshed over a business development funded mural any day. at least graffiti is honest

I'd recommend reading some of Jane Jacob's work, specifically The Death and Life of Great American Cities. It illustrates the ideas of street life and what makes great places.

As for a direct idea, I'd try to get to know your neighbours, walk in your neighbourhood as often as possible, and support your local businesses.

Also immediately thought of Jane Jacobs when I read this post, particularly the concept of "eyes on the street".
Get involved in local politics. Observe council meetings and school board meetings and committee meetings. Whatever is public. This stuff can be boring; you'll observe pointless personality clashes and interminable dumb arguments, but at the same time, this is where important decisions that affect your community get made. Once you understand the issues, you can work to influence policy in the direction that you think is best for your city. You can do this by offering comments during public comment sessions, organizing a group of like-minded people, or even running for office yourself.

It's a big time committment, but this is how change happens. We like to malign our political system, but it's set up for you to participate, and that's something we should cherish.

My friend got involved in local politics and suddenly found herself moving out of the district because her landlord got a call informing him he hadn’t acquired the proper license to rent to her. There’s a lot of “soft” corruption, suddenly enforcing laws that never get enforced, and it’s really shitty, and any little thing in your past will come under scrutiny.

She was running against the incumbent and they pulled up whatever dirt they could to get her to move out of the district.

At least she presumably took her life lesson about government to the next district. Unfortunate that her landlord had to deal with the headache though.
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My completely uneducated guesses would be

- campaign for whatever local government you deem aligns with your value if they aren't controlling your area

- create value and employment

Easier said than done, I'm doing none of these

"community organizer" is not a bad word. It means that you should walk into your local YMCA, public library, boys and girls club, food pantry, homeless shelter, religious center, etc. of your choosing, find someone who looks like they're too busy and thus must be in charge, and say "Hi, I'm Bob. I have Mondays free for the foreseeable future. What do you need?"

Then, pay attention, show up every Monday promptly on time, and see where you wind up.

If you join a volunteering group, you should decide after a couple meetings if it's worth staying with that group or finding another. It's not just whether you agree with their mission but also their social dynamics.

There's no "best setup" here; it's whatever you'd enjoy most. It's hard to help people if you're unhappy doing it. You may prefer a "show up, help, leave" deal, or something more like a social club that meets over drinks to plan events and chat about life. So don't feel discouraged if your first group doesn't feel right.

I want to emphasize how important this point is.

With work—stuff that you're paid to do—everyone on the team has some shared incentives that can help foster alignment and consensus. Everyone wants stuff to get done because you and your team are in 100% agreement about wanting those paychecks to keep coming. Even with that, there is often drama and office politics.

With community organization, hobbies, etc. everyone is in it for the instrinsic rewards, and those vary widely among people. Some will be in it to meet new friends, others like seeing a neighborhood visibly look better. Some like the sense of power, others the sense of belonging.

It is really easy to end up in a group whose personalities and goals are too different to work together effectively, through no real fault of any individual. Like any relationship, you may have to try a few before something gels.

Poor and dangerous cities usually suffer from a lack of institutional capital.

Historically the answer would be: go to church. More likely you’re not religious, so go to a similar regular event that places you in touch with your neighbors in the city. Join a committee or a choir or a volunteer group or arts group or the like that serves the community.

Do not join an organization dedicated solely to political advancement of its preferred party, at least not as a substitute for this. It is at serious risk of being more about power and less about helping, particularly in a bottom-ten city, and will be an inferior way to gain social capital and trust. If you do join one later you can use your connections to the community to make power more accountable to the community.

> Poor and dangerous cities usually suffer from a lack of institutional capital.

It's also worth noting that philanthropy has the biggest long-lasting positive impact when funds move into and through local centers of institutional capital.

Building the institutional capital is the hard part. No amount of money thrown at a problem will fix it in the long term without the local institutional capital, and a shared and transmittable wordview that keeps it alive across generations. Churches were indeed the historical local institution that endured across generations in the United States for many generations past, but those also fed into non-parochial committees that would tackle local projects.

I'm generalizing primarily from knowledge of the history of my own city. It's the most beautiful city for miles around. It had many churches in its early history (there's still a single block with 5 historic church buildings and a YWCA), and also had rich benefactors starting about 110 years ago who formed committees and built a lot of beautiful things here, including a beautiful Moorish architecture library, a series of beautiful parks, and a 2500-seat amphitheater which still hosts a free concert/show series every summer.

Personally I feel like if I want to try to make even a small impact on the world around me I'd have to make a profound impact on my own life. And I've never been prepared to do this. I could be wrong though.
Have you read "Wherever You Go, There You Are"?
Never heard of it. Just looked it up. Looks interesting. Thanks.
If a single party has been running that "top 10 most dangerous cities in the us" city for 30 to 50 years, perhaps try another party? Just a suggestion.
Don't understand why you are being downvoted. Why can we not agree that single party rule in any city, state, or nation, is simply a recipe for corruption? Look, I'm a registered republican, but I too would be uncomfortable if literally every office in my state were held by the republicans for decades. Meanwhile, most cities have decades of rule by the same party. Many times the races are not even contested meaningfully.

Yes, this is a major problem. One party rule is what we should expect from 3rd world countries like China. Having a single party on the ballot is what I expect from countries like North Korea (which does have voting believe it or not, just with one candidate on the ballot), not America.

Why is this idea so resisted? It doesn't even mean that we need to elect republicans. We can elect the Greens for all I care. However, there is a huge problem when all political positions are held by people that know the same power brokers, the same political party machine, hold the same ideologies, are unwilling to go against their 'side', etc.

Oh and BTW, remember that Hacker News is filled with rational, non-biased people /s.

I like the downvotes every now and then. I think people (like maybe you) might enjoy the comfort of knowing there are others out there.

How dare I suggest that places like Chicago, Detroit, and Philly are corrupt. HOW DARE YOU!! (put on your best fake child environmentalist face)

Yes that is why I comment here too. So that people know there are others like them. Don't care if I lose the karma.
Corruption breeds corruption, and the corrupt do not let go of power.
Pay your taxes. Vote for the interests of the working poor. Volunteer with organizations that improve the material conditions of unhoused people in your area.
Strong Towns talks a lot about this: https://www.strongtowns.org/

They have a philosophy that centers on "small bets" (trying things that aren't disasters if they don't work) and economic rejuvenation.

I've recently gotten interested in repairing technology. I bought the recommended tools from iFixit and I've been using them to fix up my wife's MBP Mid-2012 Unibody (one of the best laptops to fiddle with in my opinion).

Due to all of this I realized that I have just enough knowledge to help others with their computers - or at least I have the right tools. Once I'm more confident, I'm planning on starting a Repair Cafe[1] in my city.

Repair is daunting for a lot of people - but it doesn't have to be. I hope to use the Repair Cafe as a way to improve the longevity of people's technology (saving them money) as well as teaching people the skills and knowledge they need to fix things on their own.

With even more reliance on technology these days - especially due to COVID - repair is a great way to help struggling families save money.

[1]: https://repaircafe.org/en/

Become mindful of local-independent shopping options. Putting dollars into the places in your community where it will stay in your community is one of the better options that is well-controllable by individuals.
Actively participate in government budgeting meetings, and attempt to prevent staffing creep. Bloat/bureaucracy will kill any community ownership that inhabitants might have.

Ensure that employees that are not performing are being fired. Speak in meeting about the need to adhere to performance reviews with metrics. If you do not keep our city departments heads in check they will break your city, because their job depends on it. Remove any pension plan for government employees, all they do is encourage stagnation, change them to 401k or TSP style programs.

Any nonprofit is mostly a band aid, while small wins can be rewarding they are more or less pointless in the long run.

The only way to improve the Top 10 cities is personal ownership change among the minority of the population that mostly just doesn't give a shit about anyone else. Litter is probably the easiest indicator of the give a shit factor. Everything else you do that does not directly impact community ownership is just lipstick on a pig.

The easiest way to fix community ownership is move people out of big cities and into cities with more direct social pressure to have ownership/not be a dirt bag.

The harder way is to reduce bureaucracy and blockers for small business and citizens. Not income taxes, but all the hidden taxes that hit small businesses, tap fees, permit fees, occupation tax, inspection fees, sewer tap fees, storm water fees, employee fees, inventory taxes, the list goes on and on and on and on. The impact of these taxes are amplified by the timelines, which are regularly measured in years, which almost no startup or small business entrepreneur can tolerate capital wise. These barrier fees and artificially long timelines are most prevalent in big cities, and make it nearly impossible for anyone other than large national brands to navigate/afford. Those national brands just remove revenue from the community, which encourages these small governments to keep passing more and more upfront fees/taxes and the cycle repeats until there are nearly no local small business owners left. (Tenant/renter small businesses are generally the only ones that remain after about 20-30 years of this cycle. ie convenience stores and restaurants)

Working for John/Sally your neighbor will fundamentally change your world view of your community. If citizens do not personally see their community being successful they will simple check out of social/civic give a shit process.

Working for HR also changes your world view and the result is not positive.

The people that will drive change in a community are the small business owners and workers not the bureaucrats/politicians that have never done anything in there life except talk about how growing the budget will solve "insert random issue" problem.

How do you implement that “easiest way” you mention? That sounds more like the hardest way.
Those programs have existed for awhile(Federally run), easiest in terms of faster and higher efficacy, but low adoption rates make them difficult, they also only encourage the individual/family to socially participate.

The side effect is those that don't leave are/become generally even more anti-community, so generally makes the situation in urban centers get worse over time. Unless you remove some critical mass of people quickly.

The best thing you can do is mentor youth and encourage them to seek education and employment in a rising or at least mid-level city.

The long term trend is urbanization and clusterization of industries and homes. This means a lot of old cities and rural areas which were built around one factory will not grow back up. This is just reality.

The youth have a lot of their life still left. The sooner they invest their lives in rising cities, the better.

The single best thing you can do is pick a neighborhood - not the whole city - and invest deeply.

Get to know everyone in the neighborhood and understand what they want and need, then try to find ways to bring that.

When you have a strong network of neighbors and a little bit of cash, you can ramp up investment by cleaning up dirty corners and getting the basic services that a neighborhood is missing.

Here’s an example of how folks in Memphis, TN did this Over time: https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2020/5/21/this-is-what-w...

If you’re interested in connecting with people who already have this mindset, there are a lot of them in Strong Towns, and there may even be a group in your area.

I mean this in the most objective way possible.

The risk with urban improvement is making the area more desirable eventually prices people out of the community. So, the real question is do you help the land or current residents? When you own property it’s seriously worth considering local improvements for several reasons, but it’s also easy to confuse the two. Further, if most people in the community own property then there is a lot of overlap.

To be clear both are worthwhile, just be cognizant of what your goals are. Anyway, if you want to help people I suggest either the young as changing the trajectory of someone’s life is easier early on, or the elderly because social inclusion scales well with individual effort.

By being cognizant of these effects, you can probably accomplish both at once. Improve your community with an eye towards projects that empower the residents -- even if they were to move away. Things like financial education/mentoring or around-the-house handyman type skills sharing.
I think your concern is valid but unfounded. This is fortunate - otherwise the way to help the poor would be to vandalize their neighborhoods, which is a strange conclusion.

It's true that increasing quality of a neighborhood will increase its housing price. This will have disparate impact: (1) it will help people who enjoy higher quality, but (2) it will hurt people who would prefer low quality and lower price. However, I think it's important to remember that the stock of people and housing are mostly fixed. If you raise the quality of one neighborhood so that more people bid to move in, then at the same time there must be other unobserved neighborhoods where prices fall. Therefore there is also a third effect of making a neighborhood nicer: (3) it can lower prices in other neighborhoods.

One way I like to visualize it is as a supply curve - if you move some neighborhoods up in the desirability ranking, then by conservation of rank, others necessarily fall in rank.

The argument I sketched above isn't a proof, obviously. There are edge cases where higher quality induces more people to own multiple homes or to live with fewer roommates, and nuances where heterogeneous preference for locations may make it harder on someone who needs to commute to their job and really would be better served by a cheap neighborhood, but for the most part I think it's reasonable that making neighborhoods nice is an overall positive good for the world.

I mostly agree with you, but:

In a market with a population growing faster than the supply of housing it is possible for there to be no place where values fall, and in fact for people who can no longer afford an improved neighborhood to end up homeless as a result.

This is why housing supply is absolutely critical, and as a society we should be working hard to ensure we always have supply in level with (or erring toward slightly exceeding) demand.

However, we have a cultural myth that the home is a persons primary investment and wealth accumulation vehicle. That Mrs. very harmful because it creates enormous incentives to do the opposite: restrict supply as a way to ensure that the people who already have a home are guaranteed a good return on their “investment.”

It’s true that home is a very large asset and that appreciation can benefit the individuals who live there, there’s nothing wrong with that at the individual level. However when we choose to have house appreciation as a significant goal at the societal level, it directly competes with the desire to end homelessness and see everyone housed.

If ensuring that everyone could afford at least adequate shelter was a primary goal for society, we would need to make choices that sometimes worked against, or at least did not help, home appreciation.

If you're only concerned about the average quality of housing your argument makes perfect sense, but if I understand you correctly you're casually brushing over people (your neighbors) being forced out of their homes.
It’s likely a net positive for the world, but a net negative for the people displaced. That’s why gentrification is a dirty word in many communities. However, like most things it’s complex.

One often overlooked benefit is the knock on effects of gentrification are real improvements in local school systems. Looking across decades you often see gay communities which care less about local school systems acting as a catalyst by increasing local revenue while reducing the demands placed on local schools. The improvement in local schools precedes people’s awareness that the schools have improved. Similarly, many people can leverage the improvements in the local economy to keep up with the transition.

That said, relatively few people can keep up with significant changes and those people are simply worse off having lost an affordable community which they had social or economic ties to. A restaurant for example is generally different to relocate. A local handyman may have a steady stream of existing customers, which don’t follow them etc.

Whether it's a net negative for people who get displaced probably depends on their capital gains from the increased property values, no? Not everyone loves their neighborhood, especially if they aren't in great condition.
It’s assumed these people are renting. Homeowners only really face property taxes which take extreme shifts to become unaffordable. Even then owners can generally remove equity to pay them for years to decades.
> (2) it will hurt people who would prefer low quality and lower price.

Uh... poverty isn't a preference. Sure, at the margins people can choose to spend the money they have on different things, but you're positing an equivalence here between things that aren't remotely equal. It's not like suburban professionals simply choose to spend their money on expensive housing and infrastructure where their inner city compatriots have different priorities. Poor neighborhoods are poor because the people there HAVE LESS MONEY.

You fix that by fixing the inequity, not imagining a fantasy resident who decides to put all her money into bitcoin or whatever.

To be fair, I know at least a handful of people who are not in poverty but seem to prefer low quality / low price options to those that are more expensive.
I would assume that the preference is not for low quality, but low price. That is, if better quality housing was available for the same price, I don't see why one wouldn't choose that option. But it is certainly true that some prefer to spend less of their budget on housing.
In simple terms, improving a neighborhood increases the supply of good quality neighbourhoods and therefore reduces the price of good quality neighbourhoods (given that the demand is more or less constant).
It also decreases the supply of bad neighborhoods. Given that demand is more or less constant, this increases the cost. If the price gap is sufficiently large between the two, prices go up during gentrification and the poor have to move to more expensive bad neighborhoods
If it is more desirable, then you build more housing, it should be as simple as that. If you build enough housing, rents won't rise.
To build more housing, you have to destroy the old housing. This still displaces people, and likely pushes them into smaller apartments where they would have been in a house
No, you can let people decide whether they want to move out. Many of them would elect to then sell their houses to developers who would build apartments. Many would choose on their own to add units to their own property. If some people don't like living next to apartments, then they are out of luck though. I don't know if we should expect people to have that kind of say over what their neighbors do with their property.
Also in a very objective way, I don't understand this reasoning. I've never brought up the question before and hoping that HN can explain it in a logical way that I might understand.

Let's say that a neighborhood is rated 3 out of 10 - not very good. There is a mix of people that live in this neighborhood. Some people own property and some do not.

Then the community makes the neighborhood better and it rises to a 7 out of 10 ranking. The people in the community that own houses costs are fixed and they now recognize the improvement.

The part of the community that don't own eventually see their costs rise. At some point they can't afford to a community that ranks 7, might only be able to afford a community that ranks 3 and would need to move to a community with that ranking.

It seems like part of the original set that owns experiences a large and lasting benefit. Another part of the original set experiences a short term benefit, then a transaction cost (moving) and reverts back to the mean.

Can someone explain what this description misses and where the harm comes from?

>Can someone explain what this description misses and where the harm comes from?

Empathy. Sense of place is real. Home isn't just your house or property values. People deserve not to be priced out of their homes so the sake of profit.

moving is not just a reversion to the mean. A neighborhood is more than atomized individuals who live there. There can be a community of people which form a network and a support system that is many years old. Pricing certain people out can rip apart these communities, so it's not just a matter of relocating then continuing as you were.

Then there are the individual-level logistical problems. What does moving do to your commute? Is it easy to find a new job? Will your kids have to go to a different school district?

Too logical. Here's what non-owners might see:

"The neighborhood is improving, things will get more expensive". Bad.

"I have to move now." Bad. "This new neighborhood is worse than my old one." Only half true (they started at 3 and ended at 3), but perceived as bad.

or instead of dismissing people's grievances as illogical, you can skip the strawman phase and engage with the real issues as I and others have described here
The post I replied to logically argued that people are not harmed when their community improves and they are priced out and forced to move. (Note, I never claimed they were illogical, but instead that they were "too logical" Pure logic will not explain why people feel the way they do, because people are not always logical).

They then ask:

> Can someone explain what this description misses and where the harm comes from?

In answer, maybe no harm is actually done. But even so, people will perceive that they have been harmed. And in the larger context of this thread, that is why people are sometimes unhappy with their community being improved, because they believe it will price them out and harm them.

> In answer, maybe no harm is actually done. But even so, people will perceive that they have been harmed.

Maybe cows can fly. Maybe a lot of things. But it does cause harm. So your idea about people's perceptions seems condescending

> but perceived as bad

There is no good or bad except in terms of someone's perceptions.

This is a fair point except that neighborhoods are not fungible and are in short supply.

You’re assuming that there is another 3/10 neighborhood available for the people who are displaced to move to, and therefore they gain a short term benefit and eventually end up back where they were.

In practice it’s typical that older areas which have become run down have ample city services, such as transit, parks, and libraries, which may not be the best quality, but at least exist.

Since neighborhoods are no longer built with these amenities, the best available substitute for someone who is displaced from an old neighborhood may be far less desirable than what they had before - a 1/10 trailer park, or worse, homelessness.

However, if we would continue to build traditional neighborhoods that were walkable, had city services, had transit etc. and built enough of those to keep up with the demand, then it would be much more likely that your scenario would play out. In that case the harm of economic change in neighborhoods would be greatly reduced, perhaps even to the point that it wouldn’t be a problem anymore

But that’s quite far from the reality on the ground today.

Transit comes with density and growth and usually increases in property values. When an area goes downhill but still has this services it creates a temporary situation that people can take advantage of certain aspects - live with increase crime but get increased services.

The wealth of yesterday created that situation. At some point someone will invest in that older area because of the location value.

The only way to artifically control that is through low rent units. Which create other barriers because one can never leave or they give up something even though it might make sense to move somewhere else for family or job reasons. When they always take 1/3 of gross getting a raise and taking on more responsibility seems counter-productive. Hard to break dependence.

> people owning houses

This is the part you're overlooking. People in undesirable communities are renting because they don't have that generational wealth built up

Even if people aren't renting, once the desirability goes up, developers are going to want to kick you out, and will use the government to do it.

The community also depends on the people living in it - a diversity of the types, and incomes, of people benefits the neighborhood. People churning in and out is harmful -- I'd argue more harmful than the increased property value accounts for.

I don't have a good solution for this. Rent control helps a bit, but has bad externalities. Property ownership helps a lot but any measure to drive up ownership immediately prices out lots of people because it's captured very well by the housing market.

Your model is mostly useful and shared with the people with the 'harm' view. To reach the conclusion that the 'harm' group are reaching, set your move transaction cost¹ to a large value and add a local-relationships parameter that depends on time-spent-at-current-location and weight it very highly as well.

Should you so desire, you may want to add in a cost to capture the notion of how a person moving contributed to the improvement. This will usually need to be inflated above the true economic contribution (IKEA effect, etc.).

The local-relationships parameter may be effectively quadratic (since a person moving diminishes their relationships and relationships are two-sided).

¹ It is clear you know this but for other readers that may not, that's not just the monetary cost.

> Can someone explain what this description misses and where the harm comes from?

If they have lived somewhere a long time, one of the big losses is: Relationships.

For the people forced to move, they will not find another "3 out of 10" neighbourhood, as part of what makes it a 3 is that's where all their friends and long-lasting relationships and perhaps childhood memories are. That already makes anywhere else < 3.

They will have to move somewhere where they likely don't know anyone, or at least not the well-established friendships they had before.

If they have extended family in the area, they will have to leave those too. (Parents, children, aunts & uncles, siblings, that sort of thing).

Those friendships and relationships aren't just valuable for sentimental reasons. They form an essential practical support structure, and sometimes a financial support structure. For many people those things are a big part of what makes quality of life.

And they might be forced to move at an age where it's difficult to make new friends, especially deep friendships.

As people on the lower end of the socio-economic ladder, it's likely that they were benefitting from their friendship/relationship network in another, subtler way: By having good quality relationships with people higher up the ladder, their own circumstances are effectively lifted up as well.

For example, they might be taken out to places and introduced to opportunities and people because of long-lasting friendships with people richer than themselves. Their children get to play with children of richer friends with nicer houses to stay over in. Little things that probably translate to differences of opportunity when the children are older. That kind of uplift goes away when they move to another location.

Some people have a good relationship with a local employer too, and will lose that as well. It might be something quite treasured (even though it presumably doesn't pay well), and difficult or impossible to replace. Remember we're talking about people forced to leave, not those who want to leave.

This is the gentrification problem. Make the community more desirable, and you make it increasingly more expensive for the existing residents. It's hard to balance these things.

In the case of Minneapolis, the city committed to a plan (Minneapolis2040) to increase housing density. And a lot of that new apartment/condo construction (mostly on unused or old industrial land) is necessarily out of financial reach for average residents. But the increased supply helps protect the prices for the existing houses and older apartments, whether privately owned or rentals.

It's not perfect, it's arguably not even good, but it's a tradeoff most Minneapolis residents can live with.

Now you know why people support rent control despite it being repeatedly shown to have negative economic impact.
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Honestly, I wouldn't worry too much about it when starting a project.

That's like worrying the infrastructure won't scale when you barely have enough users to keep the one server you rent busy.

This comes up a lot in progressive urbanist circles. My favorite example was something Matthew Yglesias mentioned once on the Weeds about how some progressives opposed planting trees in D.C. because trees raise property values.

I think this is a total non-starter. Trees are good, not bad. Good things are good, not bad.

It is good to do good things. If doing good things reveals something bad, then we should work on fixing that bad thing, not on avoiding the good things that uncovered the bad thing.

We want a politics where poor people can live in neighborhoods with trees, not a politics that says trees are bad because they make neighborhoods too desirable.

There were 2 replies that I want to summarize together: empowering the current residents as part of the renewal, and rent control.

I think as part of the urban improvement is to work with the renters and landlords to let the renters capture some of the rising value, either through some sort of equity rent-to-own, or creative financing that lets the renters find other housing within the neighborhood. Maybe some sort of buy-out conversion from private landlords to private-benefit-corporation landlord (as opposed to public housing).

The alternative is localized rent control, that makes sure that the landlords don't capture the rising value of the neighborhood that is being added by the residents and their work. You also need some limits on redevelopment, so the landlord doesn't just replace the building with something more upscale and manage to replace the tenants as part of that. Maybe allow refurbishing and some new units in exchange for current residents getting rent control.

for a year I lived in a city on a nice block that was near some not so nice blocks. One thing we had that the other blocks did not, was an old lady with a bunch of brooms that knocked on everyones door once a month and made us all sweep. It really made a difference.
This is so great. Old ladies that will not be argued with should never be underestimated.
Every community needs a tough old biddy like that.

There's a reason that the single word I know in the most languages is "Grandmother".

If yours doesn't have that, then... be the Bubbie your Bubbie would insist is needed or something to that effect

If you do all that, it would make a lot of sense to then run for mayor or at least some local government position.
> When you have a strong network of neighbors and a little bit of cash, you can ramp up investment by cleaning up dirty corners and getting the basic services that a neighborhood is missing.

I don't think you need a network to begin cleaning up dirty corners.

Just pick up garbage you see on the street when you walk around. It has an immediate impact, is easy and doesn't cost anything. Other people may see it and may begin doing that as well. I'm surprised more people don't do.

If you want, you can make a facebook group telling people you're going to be picking up garbage at a certain time, if anyone would like to join.

Garbage on the street has a very negative externality as people are less mindful of tossing garbage if there is already garbage on the street. It also strips people of dignity about where they live and can have other negative side-effects to the neighborhood or even promote lawlessness.

True that picking up trash is a direct action that doesn't take many resources. (reminds me to go sweep the alley after hitting reply).

Cleaning up the trash on a block might be the most direct first action that anyone can take.

I think the poster was also using this as a metaphor.

This is a fair point, but FWIW I worded this the way I did because I think the network of neighbors is ultimately more important than the physical work, and should have top priority.

But you’re right that you can start by picking up trash, and in fact that can be a good mechanism to meet the neighbors and build the network, depending on how you approach it.

I think it's important to know the people who's corner you're trying to clean, lest you been perceived in a way you didn't intend. I'm not saying you should ask permission, per se, but some people find it offensive when outsiders come in and try to fix problems without context.
I think maybe you're paying attention to the wrong part of that story. It's not the act of putting out the Buddha statue; it's the continuous care that a community of people put around the Buddha. The neighbor that plonked down the statue just contributed a statue. The community of Buddhists who adopted it, brought flowers, cleaned and improved the area are all doing exactly what the grandparent comment described.
The "success" of this was contingent upon there being a Vietnamese community in the neighborhood that took care of the statue and the space around it. To be clear, using another culture's religious icon to keep trash from piling up on your street is exceedingly disrespectful.
It's ineffective and woo, but come on. Disrespectful?

Can we get over this hyper-upper-class take on everything for lower class problems? When it gets vandalized, that's disrespectful, I guess, but putting it there is merely stupid.

No, using religious icons to facilitate waste management is disrespectful, full stop.
Iconoclasts would have a field day with that.
Sure but the network is the thing which gives you leverage to do more than what you can do by yourself.
The network is best when you start by setting an example and then spread is. "Look, as part of my daily exercise I pick up a bit of trash every day. I'm in better health and look how much better my neighborhood is" This speaks more than someone needs to do something so I'm putting together a group to form a committee. Lead by example.
Yes, although I was thinking more along the lines of we should be neighbourly to each other hand have a good relationship where we say hi and watch out for each other. Giving people bureaucracy won't work. A number of the neighbourhoods where I live have block parties once a year so that people know there neighbours. And once you know your neighbours you can start talking about mutual problems and then things you might be able to do to fix it.
I recently passed day 1,300 of picking up at least one piece of trash per day. It's not my only civic contribution, but it's deeply rewarding. I've also switched from jogging to plogging.

Some results:

It's gotten me on TV a couple times.

It's led to working with my city councilman, whose team recently started organizing group pickups.

Someone considering a Senate run contacted me for advice on sustainability.

I'm working with a few corporations to organize nationwide pickup events -- mainly fitness places you'd probably know the names of.

As a regular in my local park, the drug dealers there have become friendly with me, leading to long conversations about life.

I'm friends with entrepreneurs in the field.

People often thank me and we talk.

It reinforces my diet. I avoid packaged food, which I find increasingly disgusting, largely for what the packaging does to the world and the entitlement, willful ignorance, and salt/sugar/fat/convenience addiction does to our culture.

Most of all, I feel connected to my community.

On the downside, my view of human nature can get dark when I consider how much people pollute.

Along similar lines, our open source React Native app at Code for Boston for iOS and Android is in beta testing from the last several years of work: https://github.com/codeforboston/plogalong – if there is interest I think there is some sort of UDID-oriented URL they can send you to load on your phone. Accepting new contributors on Tuesday nights ET.
Glad to see the project but not sure how I would use it. I'm friends with the founder of Litterati, but even that app is too much trouble for me to use. I don't bring a phone when I plog.

Still, I value tracking since it's fun and I think would motivate people. If my experience or practice can help, I'd be happy to.

I've been doing this, one trash bag full a week.
Any anecdotes from the drug dealer conversations you wouldn't mind sharing? They must have a bit of a unique take on things.
No meaningful anecdotes since we mostly just talk.

Typical topics:

- They ask why I do it

- They tell me how the others are at the ends of their ropes but that I couldn't understand that situation without being there

- They call me good a lot.

- They tell me how others litter but never themselves.

- They tell me I should use gloves (I don't because I'm avoiding creating more trash)

- They tell me how the people who are supposed to clean don't clean that well

- Of course, they ask if I want to buy drugs or at least buy them dinner from a food truck

None of them ask me about my life, my values, etc. No meaningful connections. Just chit-chat. We'll see if things evolve.

I think the network is less of a means and more of an ends. When people have relationships in their community, they have access to support (e.g. someone to make sure their home isn't broken into while they're away or financial support in an emergency) - that's way more important for a city than clean sidewalks.
I agree! We tend to think of things on a grand scale beacuse that's what we see in the media but the truth is there is more visible impact on a local level as you can impact day to day much better.

Great site and thanks for sharing!

Great advice.

I would complement saying that you should look for charities in or around your neighbourhood instead of giving to charities that doesn't affect the place you live directly (but if you super rich, do both).

You should listen to the NYT podcast “Nice White Parents”.

Neighbourhood improvement with good intentions can cause systemic problems in a community

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/23/podcasts/nice-white-paren...

Can you summarise? Listening for five hours of chit-chat seems to be excessive to.find out about what might be an anecdote that is not generalisable.
The takeaways (for me) were that: 1) a small number of high-status parents with different priorities than the broader community will often (without malice) influence a school's administration such that the community's more fundamental priorities get lost, 2) political action to enable racial integration of public schools has been a symbolic goal in NYC for generations, but there's been a repeated lack of follow-through due to ... lack of courage and commitment.
This personally saved my house during the recent CA wildfires. We have community events where we cut down brush behind the community. The fires burned up to the area where we stopped cutting the brush and it allowed for enough buffer to basically have the firefighters suppress it!
Thanks for linking that article, I'm not sure if you're native to the area but there have been a lot of good changes in a city that needs them. It feels more community oriented than investment/cash driven from some other cities I've seen but that may be the lens I choose to put on it.
This is great advice but wanted to emphasize if you’re looking to make a huge impact with pretty much no money just grab some trash bags and pick a block in need.

Trash in the street is one of the biggest problems you’ll see in neglected low income neighborhoods and it just feels so much different when the street gets cleaned up.

I want to second that and add: grab a few tools and do some basic landscaping. Remove weeds and cut grass that is growing over curbs and sidewalks. Make it look tidy again.
I second this.

I spent 3-4 hours per day sitting on a park-bench in NYC reading, playing guitar, and writing between Jan-June of this year (and before you ask, I work a 9am to 5am). If you keep a friendly disposition and are welcoming by saying hello when people take notice of you, they will open up quickly – I must note with full sincerity and severity that this assumes you listen and ask thoughtful questions; people are quick to sense when someone is not genuinely and empathetically interested in them.

I've made friends with musicians (and had some great impromptu jam sessions), homeless people, CEOs, software engineers, mentally ill, folks addicted to hard drugs, guys formerly homeless, people who were in prison for a decade and trying to get by and reconnect with their kids, students, tourists, professionals, hourly-workers, and everyone in-between.

Now if you live in an area with a low-density of foot traffic this will not work and I do not have first-hand advice besides, perhaps, move to a more densely populated area. That you asked this question speaks to what you're looking for in this life.

If you have the means to do so and live in the right climate — winter is approaching — plant a garden. It doesn't have to be anything large, I personally keep about 20-30 potted plants outside my door during the spring and summer.

This will do two things: A) Get you out on the block as you tend to your plants, where you can now serve as eyes on the street. B) Serve as a visual testament to people passing through your neighborhood that this is a place where people care about.

Elect socially liberal, fiscally conservative leadership.