Ask HN: What tangible benefits did you get from spending time on HN?

219 points by ElectricMind ↗ HN
For a few weeks, I am doubting if HN is another "user engagement" place like you know Reddit, FB etc. It seems a waste of times (to me) as I don't see any tangible benefits I am getting out of it.

So I would like to know if any of you have such experiences. I am specifically looking for stories like: 1) I posted this project and I started some company. Sold it or earning a lot of money or living my dream 2) I was hired because of my post on HN. 3) Girls chasing you because of your reputation as HN or met your wife because of your cool project ( Please don't hate me for this)

Basically money, power etc..

Forgive me for being blunt but I am not looking for "10-sec fame". I mean one day you got traffic 100K on the website. Good. But just for one day. Also, I am not sure blogging count as a tangible benefit unless it is paid service. I hope you understand my point.

Also intellectual debate, I get more information, I feel smart as benefits etc. don't count in this context.

282 comments

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HN changed the trajectory of our company entirely, after the community found it interesting.

The story is here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26327717

There are a lot of influential people on HN. I have seen companies win business and lose business for content posted here.

Either way, If the community takes interest in something (positive or negative), it is impactful.

It is a waste of time and a growing place of toxicity a smugness, but it is not very different from the rest of the internet.
I'd agree. For experienced technologists, HN has become increasingly tedious - it's eternal September here.

Don't even get me started with the weekly UFO posts ...

I especially like that HN is free of sarcasm.
Also the lack of meta.
Yeah none of that stuff.
> toxicity smugness

Sad but true, it's kinda like what stackoverflow has become. It's also site of overwhelming group-think.

I anticipate downvotes to prove my point.

Seeing what other people are working on via HN dulls my desire to work on similar things, so it's a nice way to kill ambition and melt into complacency.
Why not offer to collaborate with them if you're interested in doing something too?
That's a good attitude to keep in mind; thanks!
I hired two strong engineers directly from contacts made here.

I made one (modestly) successful angel investment from a chain of events inseparably linked to here.

I do value the intangible enjoyment/education from HN much more than the concrete things above, though.

There’s no way the time I spend here is “paid back” just from the concrete RoI items and if you’re trying to build a financial Excel model to decide whether to spend time here, your answer probably rounds to “No”

Hacker News is like a slot machine with positive expected value. Most days are interesting or sometimes a waste of time. Occasionally you see something like altering. I’ve gotten one big business idea that changed how I ran things and made me a lot of money. Like I mean permanently life altering my business worked instead of didn’t amount of money.

But most days are not like that.

You also get some information early. For example, if you paid attention you could have bought calls on Gamestop when they were cheap or puts on the S and P when they were cheap back in early 2020. It’s a filter: WSB talks about a ton of stocks, but when a news story hits HN that says “WSB is talking about Gamestop”? That is a highly filtered signal and equivalent to inside information.

Hacker News can be dumb in some ways of course but it is the highest signal place I know on the internet and genuinely early on a lot of things.

However, to get any benefit out of it you have to enjoy it, and it doesn’t sound like you do, so you probably wouldn’t benefit as things are.

I think the motto about it being a place to gratify intellectual curious really sums it up. This is a forum for people who are curious, and you come every day looking for interesting stuff. Slanted to programming, tech and business building, but with a mix of everything. And if you think about what you are working on as you do you will occasionally find legitimately useful gems.

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I'm happy OP asked the question, because this wasn't/wouldn't be in my answer. But now that I've read yours, I couldn't agree more.
It would be nice to know more about what you got out of HN (permanently life improving, I'd like some of that please?). To me, HN is an interesting distraction from deep work. Perhaps you have a better strategy of extracting value from HN, maybe you can share that.

I can't disprove "That is a highly filtered signal and equivalent to inside information.", but buying GME based on posts on HN to me (or selling), is absurd and is extremely far from "inside information". As someone who noticed the GME pump 1 week before its peak and spends time on HN, there was no way I was going to put money in GME or "ride it to the moon".

Basically I was running a business, and found someone on HN whose site exposed me to a substantially better model for the same asset I had. Revenues eventually 10x.

It’s not some crazy thing, pretty standard business idea for my sort of business, but was still a revelation. Basically you can get a ton of business model info on HN. The specific model wouldn’t help you here, but basically if you have a business hn can show you how to round it out. Roughly:

1. I did a bunch of deep work and produced an asset

2. HN showed me how to use that asset waaaaaay better

3. However HN is dangerous if you go too far into doing only aleatory information seeking and forget to continue doing deep work (I fall prey to this at times)

You’ll see some stories in this thread of people who were not programmers on HN and who received the message “hey you can be a programmer”. If you have this knowledge it is trivial, if you don’t it is life transforming. So whether HN has any life transforming potential for you depends on whether you have any such blind spots where simply being exposed to the right idea would let you make a large change onto a new path which is substantially better than the old path.

—————

For GME, this is roughly the process. Note I had background knowledge of reddit, wall street bets, memes and basic knowledge of call options.

1. This story was posted Jan 20th, about a week before the surge. Top comment lays out the short squeeze idea. But big signal is showing “hey wsb seems to be on to something, it made it through the hn bubble”: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25837208

2. My reaction was “oh interesting” (—> note to self “stop and pay attention to this reaction. Had it for the early pandemic stories too)

3. But what you could have done was checked the price of short dated call options. I could be mistaken here, as jan 20th might have been too late and the possible returns too small. But bought early enough, far out of the money call options could have a 50-100x return. The stock itself rose 10x so I’d be surprised if call options returned less than that.

(If anyone knows what gme call option prices were like on jan 20th I’d be very interested to know_

Don’t put in your life savings. But my claim is that if you faced fifty such decisions on HN and put $1000 in each time your ROI would be very positive.

The pandemic is maybe a clearer example. Due to HN and adjacent tech sources I’d say I knew pretty much what was going to happen by Feb 20th. In hindsight this was way too slow, but it was still a good 3+ weeks ahead of most of north America.

I feel HN reliably has me a bit ahead of the curve.

Disclaimer, to all reading: please don’t start gambling on HN. These are just examples to illustrate my general claim that HN has a high concentration of early info compared to other sources and has high signal.

> If anyone knows what gme call option prices were like on jan 20th I’d be very interested to know

Look here: https://omnieq.com/underlyings/NYSE/GME/chain

Are those american or european?

Doesn’t have high out of the money but if I’m reading it right the potential returns for buying Jan 20th were insane. A $60 call potion expiring Jan 29th was $1.20.

GME went to $500 or so. If you exercised such an option at, say, $350, your profit on the exercise would have been $290.

At a cost of $1.20. 242x return.

And thank you, that site is incredible. Very hard to find such data. Another example of HN’s value. I searched for this kind of thing off and on for weeks, but it randomly pops up on an unrelated thread because I made an offhand mention. That’s HN.

The options are American-style.

I also love the typo of “potion” for option in your second paragraph. It seems especially fitting for this story.

You're most welcome -- glad I had the link.

> Very hard to find such data.

That is the understatement of the decade.

Huh interesting the site is offering the free data as a byproduct to sell affordably priced subscriptions.

They could probably improve their SEO, unless they are new within the past nine months or so. When I searched historical options prices extensively nothing came up.

Do you have any affiliation with them? If not I can reach out directly. There are some pretty obvious strategies that would make them much more prominent for searches like “SPY historical options prices”

Nope, no relationship, and I don't even remember how I found them :-). I added that link to pinboard in November, 2019, so they've been around at least that long.

But by all means reach out to me if you've got a winning options strategy :-) or want freelance data-mangling or web stuff done (I'm retired, I'm a pretty good programmer) to get there.

> “And if you think about what you are working on as you do you will occasionally find legitimately useful gems.”

This for me. I’m greatly satisfied when a problem I’m working is also a topic oh HN—even obliquely.

Otherwise, the question seems to put the cart before the horse—power, wealth.. these are positive side-effects of a life of engaged curiosity within a professional domain and good decisions, right place;right time, and luck. Not lighting in a bottle.

> Otherwise, the question seems to put the cart before the horse—power, wealth.. these are positive side-effects of a life of engaged curiosity within a professional domain and good decisions, right place;right time, and luck. Not lighting in a bottle.

Precisely. Well put. There’s no way HN works as a quick fix or as a direct source of gains.

I think you hit the crux of the issue.

On the one hand, life does not work the way OP assumes. It's not linear, we don't "read HN –> profit."

On the other hand, news in general can become a meaningless and value-less distraction.

So I think they key is what you said: intellectual curiosity and exposure to high-signal information, without a highly specific goal in mind. You get the value of serendipity and filling in some unknown unknowns while avoiding senseless and endless clicking. HN fills that niche about as well as anything, though it certainly can become a distraction if you let it.

> “ Otherwise, the question seems to put the cart before the horse—power, wealth.. these are positive side-effects of a life of engaged curiosity within a professional domain and good decisions, right place;right time, and luck. Not lighting in a bottle.”

I read HN for sentences like this.

The biggest life-altering idea that was personally investable to cross hacker news is most certainly Bitcoin. That’s something we all knew intimately about before the general public.

I wonder how many HN people became buy-and-hold millionaires.

Heh, I think about that a lot. But no way I would have held until now, personally.

However, for anyone psychologically inclined to like the idea of BTC and hold they could have found out about it early and got them for pennies or even mined.

> That is a highly filtered signal and equivalent to inside information.

As a person who gets paid convert knowledge into product, HN is an easy place to check a once or twice/day to keep up to date on decently filtered knowledge/information. I have other sources I follow, but as you said, if it hits HN it's probably important enough that I should know it exist.

And yes, this is a vague answer because that base level knowledge can manifest itself in many ways when solving a problem.

In order to keep the EV/time positive, I have become more disciplined around which articles I decide to read the comments on.

That sounds like a very interesting job. Without giving away too much, what other sources do you use?
What I've found generally, is it's all about curation. You have to be ruthless about curating at all times. If some source that used to have a great S/N ratio, suddenly doesn't, then drop it.
Very much agreed. Nostalgia seldom pays off.
You've crowd sourced your job to some of the most engaged people in the industry; bravo.
> In order to keep the EV/time positive, I have become more disciplined around which articles I decide to read the comments on.

Can you expand on your methods here? I still get value from HN but want to dial things back a bit.

The average comment quality nosedives when the subject has in any way been politicized. I don’t always follow it, but as a rule for any post about climate, immigration, diversity, and so on reading the comments is at best a waste of time even when the submission is high quality.

Comment quality is generally high on computing related technical subjects—unsurprisingly for a community composed of subject matter experts.

Finally I’ve noticed mixed comment quality on financial posts. There is significant noise but there are many commenters with an excellent operational grasp of how our financial system really works.

Yes agreed. I find it's pretty easy to tell comments and stories where people are genuinely interested in learning things, and those where there is a lot of "advocacy" or meming of a political position they heard from somebody else.

Some subjects attract a lot of the latter comments. This applies to both technical and business stories.

IMO if you want to get more value, then learn to tell the difference, and don't spend a lot of time "arguing with people on the Internet". You could do that forever on HN, but you can also get a ton of value out of it if you spend your attention wisely.

People needed most in political debates have removed themselves from it.
As someone else mentioned, I avoid anything political unless I'm purposely diving in for entertainment. The tech comments are normally high quality, and tend to force me to think about my opinions. Also, while everywhere has some level of group think, the tech comments tend to be pretty balanced.

I've developed a bit of timer in my head. If I feel like I've perused HN too long or catch myself just refreshing the home page, I close the tab and move on.

Finally, and this isn't HN specific, I never start my day by checking sites. I always do a solid 2-3 hours of work (sometimes 'deep'), before anything else.

EDIT

Other thing, is don't argue on the internet or HN. I'll share my opinion and/or respond a bit, but if someone really wants to argue, I let them have it and move on. Takes too much time, and doesn't gain anything once I'm ok with my position. I mentioned the other day in another HN post that I had stopped going to FB for this exact reason. Zero helpful information, and it just led to arguments which take too much time and accomplish nothing.

Great advice, thank you! I think I need to find something else to read over breakfast. That small habit is probably where I went wrong.

The mental timer is an interesting idea too. Basically active cultivation of awareness to allow discipline.

What sources do you follow other than HN?
Yes, it's a waste of time, I would leave and not return. I haven't made any money or started any companies or met any wives on this site, it's a total joke.
On the flip side, you do at least get to meet tech bros and not have to pay for conference tickets. That's gotta count for something.
Someone should start an app to disrupt the wives and companies market.
I only browse sites with an average ROI of at least 1 wife per week.
Honestly I've been seeing that ROI from HN for quite a while. Sometimes a wife per day! I would say to spend more time on the wife threads.
> or met any wives on this site

The wife has negative ROI anyway. If she isn't getting me more money, a new job or another wife, there is no tangible benefit.

Also feelings, life satisfaction, love as benefits etc. don't count in this context.

what about the tangible benefit of having well-raised kids?
Kids?

Don't you know the very bad ROI they have??

(unless you count in cuteness)

Your ROI needs to measure returns other than money.

But kids can end up making money, too, and take care of you when you're older.

HN is part of the reason I moved to SF back in the day and started my company. My company is the reason I met my wife, because she saw me wearing a t-shirt I made to promote it while walking down the street in SF. You could say HN is the reason I met my wife ;)
Thank you for this gem and the responses. I haven’t laughed out loud from something I’ve read on HN as much as I just did thanks to this comment and its children comments.

Even though I got zero wives out of these comments, there was some real value generated here!

>I haven't made any money or started any companies or met any wives on this site, it's a total joke.

From my reading of HN, what you need to do is invest in crypto and date ballerinas.

HN to start monthly thread: Who's single?
Oh no. Pls don't. Because it probably would be highly successful. Or well, much used. (Not necessarily leading to couples, though)
I’m genuinely surprised (and a little disappointed) that this thread doesn’t have a single love story sparked on HN. I did once receive a bunch of shirtless bathroom selfies from a gentleman here when I included my twitter handle in a comment. Unfortunately, I blocked him before he had the chance to propose so I guess I’m doomed to forever wonder what could have been...
I think that's another reason I like HN. There is no direct messaging like other social media, so if someone wants to interact with you they need to reply publicly.

It's a small thing, but I think it is an important part of HN.

Many commenters (myself included) include an email address in their bio to let people contact them.
Well I for one am glad you are here, Borat!
HN is an important way for me to keep up with new development technologies and methodologies, more so than any other single website i know.

This has helped with my standing in the company i work at, since i usually know every technology people are talking about. I don't know of anyone in the company with a similiarily broad knowledge.

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HN is where I got interested in seriously improving my programming skills, several years ago. I was doing a lot of programming, but not employed as a programmer, so I had let my skills become outdated. Coincidentally, the language getting all of the "buzz" at the time was Python, which just really clicked for me.

Reading HN has also been the start of many a good nap. ;-)

Just my personal opinion, but if you’re looking for a place to advertise your startup, then I doubt HN is the right place.

Personally I come to HN because it’s one of the few places you can have a discussion and read comments without having to dig through dozens of memes and low attempt jokes.

I was going to answer in a similar vein, although I don't normally participate in the discussions, mainly because English is not my native tongue and although I think I can now read at the level of a native speaker, I find it significantly more difficult to write in it (and, being a language that for reasons that elude me I love, I hate how artificial and unnatural my phrases sound like).

In my case, I have a background in statistics and biotechnology and I use Hacker News (via RSS) to learn about new developments in machine learning and related technology. I tend to ignore all news related to politics/social issues because HN, on average, has a very narrow-minded (too engineer-like, often ignoring a lot of vital nuances) way of looking at those topics. Also, I'm from Europe and I find that there's a particularly American way of looking at business and personal projects that we don't have here and that I feel beneficial to get exposed to (even with its downsides).

Edit: To expand a little more on my process of using HN, in case anyone finds it interesting, I subscribe to the frontpage RSS feed, so that I usually get between 75-100 stories (just the headlines) per day, which I then proceed to quickly scan to open the interesting ones (both the original URL and its accompanying HN discussion). I've found the signal/noise ratio to be more than worth it (also factoring in the time it takes me to do all of this).

Well, the level of English in this comment is well above that of the average on Hacker News!
Thank you for your comment, you've really brightened up my day!
Wow, I have to say that I think you write beautifully. I’m a native English speaker learning a second language and I can only hope to be able to write this well.
Thank you so much for your kind words!
On the other hand, it may be one of the last places left where you can actually naturally advice.

Stuff like...

"Oh I can tell you a thing or two about the legal complications of cubesat launches, my company did this for the last 12 years. [...]. By the way, this is our website"

...is probably more effective if a potential client stumbles over it than 100,000 "targeted" facebook ads, especially if you serve some highly technical niche.

It may be relevant if your startup provides a product (tools or services) targeting HN demographics, let's say, technical users/tech companies/startups.
I actually found my favourite finance tracker, Lunch Money, because the creator posted here. And her posting it here really helped her company grow.

So it does happen a fair bit if your startup is relevant.

https://lunchmoney.app/

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I've all but given up social media elsewhere on the web, HN is one of my last holdouts, and I would argue that's it's more of a forum than classic social media.

HN does not engage in nefarious methods of keeping you engaged. It does not send you alerts telling you about what you've missed, it does not curate the home page to place you in your own personal echo chamber. These for me are it's strengths.

However, like any large social gathering, there will always be people whose views you cannot stand, and people who you feel closely aligned to, and this is healthy.

Whenever I see comment threads spiralling into toxic views I simply click away to another thread. For every bad comment section there will always be another good one. The key thing is, as a user I drive how I consume HN, not the other way around.

I may not be the original target demographic for HN and I've certainly not had any more than my 5 minutes of fame here, but I still find myself coming for the posts, and staying for the comments.

I never thought about this until you brought it up, but I'm more hooked on HN than anything else and it's the only place that doesn't try to hook you.
Relaxation and distraction without pun threads. Guaranteed stimulation on a break

I love reading technical blog posts. Raw tech rather than tech besmirched by the business development department.

Not everything needs to be part of the hustle. Make time for you!

I've been a hobbyist programmer since I was about 6 years old. I had done just about every other job in IT besides sling code.

Reading HN and conversing with a friend of mine in a CS program at Uni are what motivated me to turn my hobby into a new career, at 31 years old. It was through HN that I realized that I knew a heck of a lot more relevant job skills than I thought I did. Threads on HN also connected the dots for what it would take to make this my profession.

The career change itself only took me about 3 months, but reading HN was years of time invested.

I've also had some constructive interviews, on both sides, as a result of the monthly job threads.

Did you become a software engineer?
For a while. Currently a devops lead.
I think they changed the algorithm a couple of months ago, threads with high user engagement get nuked into oblivion really fast nowadays.
I'm here to practice my English.

Language-wise the quality of posts here is much better than what I would get on reddit, fb or similar.

Not sure if this counts, but it's a major reason why I visit this site daily.

Seconded.

I'm taking a professional reporting course at my uni and I feel like lurking here has paid off at least a little bit.

It's an odd feature of the thing - I'm a native English speaker so I'm ok with that but getting upvotes / downvotes is quite good practice for improving your writing, I've found.
Yes that’s actually how I got my start in writing. I had a travel blog back in 2007-08 and would post entries to Facebook. I gauged writing effectively by comments and rapidly improved my style.

Ended up starting a writing focussed business. Don’t think I could have done it without frequent and rapid feedback.

Your comment made me realize this is probably why I keep writing comments. It is constant, precise feedback on my skill in what I do.

I only started my "technical blog" (heavy quote marks here) after four years of posting comments on HN.
When I was freelancing I got a couple of gigs by talking to companies who listed themselves here.

Very recently I achieved a significant boost in production system perf from comments here about the underlying hardware of GCP at different custom assignments. This saved decent $$ at a small company.

I've used HN twice now to cash in on the rise of BTC (unfortunately my liquid capital is low enough that this is only low 5 digit gain).

And you say information doesn't count, but filtering through the information and analysis here is a high signal way to "get ahead". To acquire power at work and amongst friends it helps to be both insightful and reliable, as well as confident. While HN doesn't make me reliable it sure as hell helps on the other fronts.

I became a Software Engineer (my childhood dream) by reading edw519 (https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=edw519) comments and free PDF book. He wrote that you don't need a university degree to start in the field, so I jumped out of bed and started learning Python. Now 8 years later I'm a Senior Software Engineer.

I even was in a CTO position once, which didn't work out, because I arrived too late and the startup would have gone bankrupt anyway, but I enjoyed that the most.

I learned a lot about Python and generic programming related things from the articles posted here. I read 1 article/day on average for years now.

It literally got me a couple hundred bucks in some crypto from Keybase, just for having an HN account. Thats more than I can say for any other site lol
I think the benefit of HN, reddit, or twitter is the random once-in-a-bluemoon jackpot you get with it. Sure, most of the post here are meh, but sometimes there's one that grabs you and alters your life. Perhaps all the okay-ish posts are the price you and I pay to get exposed to the once-in-a-bluemoon jackpot.
Of my ~600 markdown notes, 85 currently contain the string "news.yco". Some of them may be just feel-good pseudo-procrastination (inspiration for the blog I did not start yet) but others definitely shaped me as a person. A big percentage is relevant material for my main side-project - the note taking app for my note - for which I got the idea and various details from HN. Another is a bunch of good (and less good) books I found here and read.

I don't have a collection of Teslas and some bay area real estate to show for it yet, but it comes down to this: My day-to-day thoughts are massively shaped by the media I consume. I can spend all day contemplating some dumb /r/askreddit question or a novel take on Docker CI/CD I read on HN. I am pretty sure the second one aligns more to whatever the opposite of opportunity cost is. IMO, in the end, being knowledgeable makes you a better dev.

Also, I am practicing my English writing skill, so if I start this blog one day, maybe it will not even suck (and earn me all that tangible money, of course ;) ).

I got a few interviews after posting on “Who wants to be hired?” and got a job after a post on “Who is hiring?”.

I know a friend who got a job offer from Square and Google after one of his blog posts (very deep, technical, explaining a new thing he discovered about the tracking of a famous app). He is not even very active on HN, just one hit post.

But, it seems to me that you are being very superficial about how you define tangible and not very open to get value from HN outside of a very direct path with obvious causality to power and money. So it will be a lottery with low chances of winning, thus I would advise you to get out of it. It will be a waste of time for you because of your way of seeing things.

Every now and then I find a link or a mention in the comments about literature or information regarding a topic I find interesting.

Lately, I learned about CSS stack contexts because of a blog post here, and read other posts by the same author. Learned a lot about CSS that day.

I have never been hired because of a post of mine on HN. But I have been hired twice by noting posts of the form "we're hiring based on this challenge, go check it out".

In both cases the challenge was apparently challenging enough that the company actually meant "we hire based on this challenge". Sadly, an overwhelming majority of hiring "challenges" are so easy that the company feels the need to impose a full conventional hiring process behind it.

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There are once in a while priceless comments about things like career growth, trends (technological, economical) or just new products.

Also some technical tidbits here and there, especially on the practical side, the knowledge "on the streets", exchange experiences, niche companies that are only starting but might solve a problem you have (or might have)

Here i learn about interesting new tech that isn't (yet) widely known. That's more than enough for me.