As a long term, very frequent recreational cannabis user I'm interested whether cannabis has real capability to cause this and other health issues. I find it difficult to believe that cannabis directly causes schizophrenia rather than simply "revealing" it, but I don't want to shut my eyes to these possible complications. I personally experienced the reduced motivation and ability to control one's life caused by chronic marijuana (mis)use, bordering on addiction. I hear some people experience pretty strong withdrawal symptoms, but definitely no such thing on my end - were they simultaneously abusing other substances, possibly?
I personally think weed is overall better than alcohol for most people, and I wish it replaced drinking as the primary socially-accepted drug, but I'd like to know if I'm wrong, or to what degree.
I think alcohol is better for the simple reason that the negative consequences are more immediately obvious. Cannabis is much more sinister in that the negatives usually creep up on you before you notice and so long as it has you in its grip you may not even notice until you stop.
I've witnessed people have acute psychotic breaks after smoking strong cannabis for the first time, and met one man with schizophrenia who attributed his condition to his past cannabis use. Whether he's right I don't know, but the connection is at least well acknowledged nowadays.
I don't think alcohols consequences are more immediate or obvious to most people.
It's also much more physically addicting in that your body needs it to function at some point.
I personally know two people that are schizophrenic and were long term heavy marihuana users, of course that's also anecdotal and in both cases there were other drugs involved aswell.
I don't think alcohol is better at all, it's actually really bad and culturally much more accepted. People start drinking really early and pretty heavily. The long term effects are not that obvious to most people.
> negative consequences are more immediately obvious
I don’t think so since we are used to drunk people. You know how many people I’ve seen beating each other in a drunk rage? I have never seen that with smokers.
I did a 23 & Me test, pulled down my raw data, and ran the data through some services that check more things than 23 & Me. One of my SNPs (Single Nucleotide Polymorphisms) indicated I have a higher chance of a psychotic reaction to marijuana (it's been a long time, so I may not be remembering everything exactly).
I've never smoked, so can't say anything anecdotal. But, I found it interesting that this was something that might be determined (affected?) by our genes.
Thanks, this is very interesting - I hope that one day these tests become accurate enough to mitigate the risks. Even now they're an extremely valuable signal.
Alcohol is pretty much poison I agree with you there, I mean being hung over badly really feels to me like being poisoned. It's an unhealthy, shitty, possibly addictive substance but it just feels good and socially accepted. However, perhaps there is one small difference; if you drink moderately you will almost surely be fine. 1-2 beers will not induce panic attacks, paranoia etc. With cannabis there is a small but significant segment of people (especially new users) that will experience bad panic attacks, paranoia and in rare cases erruption of mental illnesses. It gets worse when consuming large ammounts of cannabis but I think even moderate use can cause this.
Other than that there is the fact that cannabis stays for a long time in your system; up to 2 weeks. Thats 2 weeks of possibly diminished cognitive performance (I am not sure how diminished), thats a pretty bad side effect especially for students! Smoking even as much as once a week can have a bad effect. Having a beer once a week doesn't do that.
This paper is about long term effects, specifically whether IQ declines in adulthood after adolescent use.
I was talking about effects days after use.
"The strongest evidence regarding cannabis and memory focuses on its temporary negative effects on short-term and working memory.[83]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_cannabis
I'm not saying cannabis will make you dumb forever, but I am saying there's evidence it can diminish your abilities for up to a week or two after use, which might be a lot for certain people such as students, academics etc.
And I’m saying that’s also debatable. An anecdote, I can get blazed to high heaven and still perform my complex job duties with little difference in performance. I’ve won multiple trivia competitions while actively vaping marijuana. I took my driving test after ripping a bong. “Some” people may be dumber, but not all.
This comes from an episode of QI so I could be wrong, there's no evidence that alcohol kills brain cells. Pretty certain weed does?
Thing is alcohol (for me at least) is a great social lubricant. Weed is the complete opposite, it just makes me paranoid and awkward. I know beer is bad for me but I can't lie, I enjoy meeting up with friends for drinks and I've had some great times drinking.
Weed kills brain cells? I used to be a heavy marijuana user, like all day every day. Didn’t have any affect of my mental ability. What it did affect is my mood, it helps my anxiety, and helps deal with my chronic back spasms. I quit because it’s too expensive and does prevent me from wanting to be physically active.
Anecdotal, my brother is schizoaffective. He exhibited signs as early as 18. Unfortunately, none of my family understood what those signs were until he was in his late twenties. Regular pot use didn’t negatively affect him, but he started getting into dabs and that’s when his symptoms began to manifest and he started becoming schizophrenic. If anything pot made his schizoaffective disorder worse, but he still already had it.
As a former long term frequent user, weed makes you dumb for several days after and it's fairly obvious. The slowdown, increased introversion, and dented motivation will stick with you for a while, but so will the increased baseline dopamine, at least if the user isn't functionally dependent.
If you're already a shut-in, and smoke nonstop for years, it will multiply the introversion, and schizophrenia-like symptoms are essentially inevitable. You will be too nervous to let anyone see you in this state of degraded capacity, and cope with it by just smoking more, it's a vicious cycle. If you have friends who don't mind your habits, or join you frequently, the risk is mostly neutralized.
Does long term self-medication of it for mental health disorders boosts their symptoms? Probably. Paranoia is a common side effect and I don’t think that’s very beneficial for someone who is already struggling.
Weed is funny; Unlike with smokers and drinkers, stoners are generally unwilling to admit that their drug of choice could result in any significant long-term consequences whatsoever.
It could be because so many of them have used for decades and have experienced no long term effects? Since peer-reviewed studies into the long-term effects of marijuana are still lacking, most evidence will be anecdotal.
With weed having been (and in most places still being) illegal and not necessarily mainstream socially acceptable, some of its users might also have more of a need to "prove" its acceptability. With cannabis being more broadly condemned than alcohol (or at least having been so for several decades), it's no wonder if cannabis users become defensive. That might make some people want to deny any harm.
There's generally no need for anyone to prove that alcohol is normal or socially acceptable (in moderate amounts at least) in most of the world, because it already is.
It's worth following the evidence instead of taking this article at face value. If you read the study, this information is taken out of context. This is reefer madness pushed by someone who has connections at CNN.
> Prof David Curtis, Honorary Professor, UCL Genetics Institute, said: “While it is true that people diagnosed with schizophrenia are also more likely to be diagnosed with cannabis use disorder, the reasons for this association are far from clear and it is extremely difficult to interpret results such as these with confidence. I am struck by two simple findings. In Denmark, the incidence in schizophrenia in 2016 was about the same as it had been in 1996 but over the same period of time the prevalence of cannabis use disorder increased nearly five-fold. If, as the authors suggest, cannabis use disorder can cause schizophrenia then there should have been a quite dramatic increase in schizophrenia incidence and we simply do not see that. So far as I can see, this study does not really provide support for the hypothesis that cannabis use causes schizophrenia. In fact, it seems to provide evidence that it does not.”
I have seen a more than one family member develop schizophrenia from heavy marijuana abuse. Both were in their teenage years. In medical terms it’s called “hash psychosis” and, as such, treated with antipsychotics. I am sure a lot of you enjoy and make good use of marijuana for recreational use but having seen too many cases of its side effects, I would never risk it myself.
There is good science to not consume marijuana in early years when the brain is not fully developed, but if you are older than your mid-20s what’s your concern about risk?
It’s not just teenage years. It’s also overall:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29557759/
“It is now incontrovertible that heavy use of cannabis increases the risk of psychosis. There is a dose-response relationship and high potency preparations and synthetic cannabinoids carry the greatest risk. It would be wise to await the outcome of the different models of legalisation that are being introduced in North America, before deciding whether or not to follow suit.”
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[ 3.3 ms ] story [ 62.9 ms ] threadI personally think weed is overall better than alcohol for most people, and I wish it replaced drinking as the primary socially-accepted drug, but I'd like to know if I'm wrong, or to what degree.
I've witnessed people have acute psychotic breaks after smoking strong cannabis for the first time, and met one man with schizophrenia who attributed his condition to his past cannabis use. Whether he's right I don't know, but the connection is at least well acknowledged nowadays.
It's also much more physically addicting in that your body needs it to function at some point.
I personally know two people that are schizophrenic and were long term heavy marihuana users, of course that's also anecdotal and in both cases there were other drugs involved aswell.
I don't think alcohol is better at all, it's actually really bad and culturally much more accepted. People start drinking really early and pretty heavily. The long term effects are not that obvious to most people.
I don’t think so since we are used to drunk people. You know how many people I’ve seen beating each other in a drunk rage? I have never seen that with smokers.
I've never smoked, so can't say anything anecdotal. But, I found it interesting that this was something that might be determined (affected?) by our genes.
I'm not saying cannabis will make you dumb forever, but I am saying there's evidence it can diminish your abilities for up to a week or two after use, which might be a lot for certain people such as students, academics etc.
Thing is alcohol (for me at least) is a great social lubricant. Weed is the complete opposite, it just makes me paranoid and awkward. I know beer is bad for me but I can't lie, I enjoy meeting up with friends for drinks and I've had some great times drinking.
Anecdotal, my brother is schizoaffective. He exhibited signs as early as 18. Unfortunately, none of my family understood what those signs were until he was in his late twenties. Regular pot use didn’t negatively affect him, but he started getting into dabs and that’s when his symptoms began to manifest and he started becoming schizophrenic. If anything pot made his schizoaffective disorder worse, but he still already had it.
If you're already a shut-in, and smoke nonstop for years, it will multiply the introversion, and schizophrenia-like symptoms are essentially inevitable. You will be too nervous to let anyone see you in this state of degraded capacity, and cope with it by just smoking more, it's a vicious cycle. If you have friends who don't mind your habits, or join you frequently, the risk is mostly neutralized.
Does long term self-medication of it for mental health disorders boosts their symptoms? Probably. Paranoia is a common side effect and I don’t think that’s very beneficial for someone who is already struggling.
There's generally no need for anyone to prove that alcohol is normal or socially acceptable (in moderate amounts at least) in most of the world, because it already is.
And just in case you were wondering the original reefer madness was about racism.
> Prof David Curtis, Honorary Professor, UCL Genetics Institute, said: “While it is true that people diagnosed with schizophrenia are also more likely to be diagnosed with cannabis use disorder, the reasons for this association are far from clear and it is extremely difficult to interpret results such as these with confidence. I am struck by two simple findings. In Denmark, the incidence in schizophrenia in 2016 was about the same as it had been in 1996 but over the same period of time the prevalence of cannabis use disorder increased nearly five-fold. If, as the authors suggest, cannabis use disorder can cause schizophrenia then there should have been a quite dramatic increase in schizophrenia incidence and we simply do not see that. So far as I can see, this study does not really provide support for the hypothesis that cannabis use causes schizophrenia. In fact, it seems to provide evidence that it does not.”