Ask HN: How to continue to be gracious about the good fortune of rich friends?
I try to be gracious and happy for their good fortune.
However it makes me depressed and angry and envious.
One friend told me a few days ago his house went up in value $1,000,000 in one year, at which point he sold it.
I visited my cousin who is a fabulous person and has a gorgeous house freshly renovated and extended and a new pool put it.
All around me my peers are becoming very wealthy.
And I’m at the bottom with nothing.
I try to be happy for them and gracious and to listen and enthuse whilst they tell me of their good fortune or show me around their stunning houses. And afterwards I feel smashed with depression as I go back to my shit rental house that I’m ashamed of.
Good people, great friends, and seeing them brings me down.
Rich people aren’t aware that their tales of success make people like me feel bad. They shouldn’t have to be aware of that or hold themselves back. As a good friend I should feel happy for them, and I pretend to, but inside it makes me feel terrible.
If you’re commenting on this thread and offering advice, I encourage you add the context of whether you are one of those who have money or not.
415 comments
[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 274 ms ] threadIt may sound like pat advice, but -- maybe you need to start looking for new friends.
The kind who wouldn't think twice coming over to your "shit rental" (which would probably be considered quite rich, not to mention safe and clean in much of the world). Just to hang out with you, watch a movie maybe, and share whatever kind of meal you're able to whip up on your gas stove.
Life is to short to be spent in situations of any kind where you feel uncomfortable in your skin. Even if it's not directly the fault of the people you currently hang out with.
But a good rule of thumb is: if you don't feel comfortable inviting these people to your home - or even telling them where (and in what circumstances) you live -- it's probably best to start moving on.
(And perhaps to other countries where the income distribution is far less skewed, and people are far less hung up on relative wealth and status as they are in the U.S. -- at least for a few years or so, to get over the current anxiety you're facing, and start to feel human again. But that's a side topic).
FWIW, the initial boost of happiness derived from living in nice accomodations is shortlived, after a few weeks or a month you'll likely feel about the same as before you got the nicer digs.
Once I experienced and internalized this lesson, I was able to stop caring much about my house (just keep it clean and as comfy as possible) and instead focus on the amazing people in my life who genuinely care about connecting with me regardless of fancy house circumstance. In this way it's actually a highly effective filter facilitating minimization of superficial relationships.
That hasn't been my experience. When I found my current place I was ecstatic over it and ~3 years later, I still am just as much. I have no plans of moving out unless I move cities -- it hits the spot that much for me compared to all the previous places I've lived previously.
I think it's more complicated than that. I'm lucky enough at this point in my life to have enough money to afford a nice house and nice toys, and not worry much about money. I also have absolutely zero issue going to hang out with friends who have much less than me. I really don't care at all. Some of my happiest years were when I was younger and poor. I had just barely enough money to make ends meet most of the time, was living in a back room of a dirty little house with three other roommates, and I was living happy because I liked who I was with. I get that money and real worth are two very different things and enjoy people for who they are, not where they're at.
But sometimes I can clearly feel the awkwardness coming at me when I hang out with people who are significantly less well off than I am and they know it. I'm usually not sure how to handle it, and typically end up just not hanging out with them much. I sometimes also find similar situations hanging out with people who have a lot more than I do. With some people it works fine, with others I can tell by what they say and how they act that they're uncomfortable because of the difference.
This could be a sign of self-esteem issues (or other stuff; I'm not qualified enough to speculate) that will or already does diminish their quality of life and happiness.
And if they "get over" the wealth difference, your brain will find something else. Take it from someone who spent more than two thirds of his life "getting over things" inatead of addressing the root causes. But then again, you're not me or anyone else, you're you. Everyone has their own path, but I shared mine in case it helps you find/improve your own going forward.
Is there any indication that these people don't want to come over to OPs "shit rental"?
This is good advice. However, I also think that you (the OP) also need to change your mindset.
For context on myself: I have lived most of my life in your situations like yours, until recently when I became wealthy enough to retire early.
As a kid, my family ate government assistance food. There were times when I had to look in the couch cushions for money to buy food.
For all of my life, I've known people who are very visibly wealthy. However, I was fortunate enough to learn early to hold wealth in mild disgust and also not make a big deal about it. I encourage you to develop this sort of attitude.
As randycupertino mentions above. Not only is the hedonistic treadmill is real, it's actually sort of pathetic. Many people who are rich become sort of helpless. Unable to do simple things like changing a car tire by themselves. Learn to be self sufficient and take pride in it.
The other thing to realized is that past a point money won't buy you happiness. And you are in control of where that point is.
Now, to add to what vanusa says above. You need new friends. I say this because one of my good friends is very wealthy, but I never once felt bad or envious about it. My friend's parents came from very humble backgrounds and they did a wonderful job at staying grounded and kind. This family didn't brag about money, they wouldn't enthuse whilst telling me of their good fortune.
Furthermore, I think it's very tacky and shallow to talk about wealth.
Personally, when I became wealthy, my spouse and I agreed to not tell anybody about our wealth. The only people who know the true value of our wealth are me, my spouse, our accountant, the IRS, and God.
Certainly, some people have their guesses, but there is no way for people to know the precise details. We still live in the same modest house, drive the same 10 year old car, wear the same clothes, etc.
A big reason why we haven't changed our lifestyle is because our friends and family are very important to us and we don't want what was honestly a lucky break to get in the way of those things.
To summarize:
- I've been in your shoes in the past
- You need better friends
- You also need to work on yourself and your mindset
The OP is not wealthy enough to develop that attitude. I think that is what wealthy people forget, money does indeed solve many problems.
Being poor introduces a number of problems, and if you are not actively there, you quickly forget what it is like. That's okay.
I believe that an economic class system exists for a reason. It is easy to interact with people one above or one below your class. Beyond that it becomes more difficult, and requires more energy. It is up to individuals to decide how they want to spend that energy. And the less money someone has, the more energy it takes to do things, and vice versa.
Among them being perpetually under (palpable, physical) stress, and pretty much always living under heavy cloud of self-doubt. And not just about why you haven't been promoted at FAANG yet, why you haven't gotten some insane payout like certain friends of yours, etc.
> haven't been promoted at FAANG yet
Is anyone at FAANG really poor, even if they haven't been promoted yet?
In general, people who are truly your friends and value you should be very open to the idea of you coming to them for help and asking how you can get ahead in your own life. A lot of success is just knowing how to play the game and which moves to make, as well as people connections. Most of the rich people that I know are there because someone else essentially gave them the path to take, and they just made the right steps.
If they are not willing to do this, then you honestly will probably be better off finding a new circle of friends.
The only possible thing they could be said to do “wrong” is not hide their good fortune, nor understand that telling me they just made $1,000,000 makes me feel bad, not welcoming me into their homes.
Those aren't primarily luck, even though it obviously plays a role in every path.
[1] https://digitalsynopsis.com/inspiration/privileged-kids-on-a...
The buying power of the middle class in the USA has been wrecked.
If Picketty (Capital in the 21st Century) is right then we will have a level of wealth inequality close to the french revolution in 9 years.
Maybe we should be looking at institutional class labor (nurse, teacher, doctor, accountant) purchasing power as a better indicator.
Nearly everyone is both poorer than someone and wealthier than someone.
> shit rental house
See, you've got a rental house, and it sounds like you don't even need roommates to help pay for it!
Otherwise, find some new friends and stop torturing yourself.
(well, any other qualifier than being born wealthy, that's the greatest predictor of wealth after all.)
Hope OP can learn from some of his wealthy friends that acquired wealth, rather than inherited it. And if they all got it from mama and papa, then it is what it is, and OP probably should consider finding other friends if these current ones depress him.
I do not want to copy that. I do not want to support this way of living.
(Also, I do not think I'm whining. I'm in the top income bracket in my country, have some talent and was gifted with some brain at birth and healthiness. But, you know, most of these things are not my doing - I was lucky many times over, and often I see people working 100x harder than me not ending up nearly in the same spot. Is that a good society?)
It’s not fair and it’s not meant to be fair. It’s meant to allocate limited resources in an efficient manner. Doing something people don’t care about or producing something people don’t care about, get nothing back. Do something people value or produce something they want and get the amount they value it back.
I’m aware that grifters exist and some people make money that shouldn’t make it like violently taking it from others that earned it or tricking people into giving away money they didn’t want to but you don’t cancel a system because it can’t run perfect. If we did that we would have to shut down public schools because a few teachers have sex with children, shut down the military because a few soldiers snapped on a civilian, and the list goes on and on.
Unless you're the richest person on Earth, there will always be someone with more money than you. Likewise, unless you're the poorest person on Earth, there will always be someone with less money than you.
So, if you find yourself between these two extremes, a change in viewpoint is the only thing that can get you out of this funk. I have several friends (no joke) who have become billionaires over the last few years. I've slipped into periods of jealousy, but it's taken some mulling to realize that I only want what I think they have. And what is that, exactly? More "stuff"? A bigger house? How are things going to really make me feel happy? Fact is, they won't, and they can't.
I can feed myself and my family. I am healthy (now, at least--for many years, I was not). I have shelter. I have friends who I care about and who care about me. If you have these things, you have wealth--or at least enough of it to be happy.
It also seems unnecessarily burdensome and superficial; when said people who you cut out face financial strain of their own, are they then “allowed” to be your friends again? Likewise, if you win the lottery, how would you react if all of your old friends stopped talking to you?
Sometimes the easier route is more appealing. But I am certainly not dismissing your point.
At this stage in my life I'm glad to have successful friends who seem to respect what I have to say and encourage me to work hard and continue moving forward.
Some others have said it, but life is too short to spend it around people who make you feel like shit and don't realize they're doing it. Nice people can be shitty people - life is too short to spend it around people like that.
I suppose I'm on the opposite end of you, and I overcompensate by never inviting people to my house. I go to other people's houses, including and especially those with "shit rentals".
I find myself somewhat guilty of my own lavishness (even though really it's not that lavish).
I don't really have advice, other than to say that if they're your friends you should actually just tell them it makes you ashamed and see their response. You don't want their pity necessarily, but I think it's important that your friends know how you feel.
Talk about it so they can understand each other? You don't just drop the one-liner and hope they change their ways accordingly. Hell, they don't need to change at all. Just talking about it could cause OP to realize his friends don't care about that sort of thing and reduce or rid of their feeling of shame.
Some people can be okay not talking about how they feel; however, OP is clearly not currently okay, so doing something is the only way something will change. If OP cannot change their own feelings theirself, OP can either get different friends or try to talk to their current friends. And if you are willing to get different friends, you may as well try to talk to your current ones first.
> If you’re commenting on this thread and offering advice, I encourage you add the context of whether you are one of those who have money or not.
And since OP asked, I'm too young to have accumulated wealth to be jealous of, but I feel comfortable with my current job and am optimistic of my future.
It's not a sure-fire solution. Hard problems rarely have such a thing. But I'd bet on discussion performing better than no discussion is most scenarios. Even if it lead you to finding new friends.
"Woah bud, I'm sorry. Have I changed or is it just that I can spend more?"
Worst case scenario, you communicate. Best case scenario, you discover that you've become an asshole.
More practically speaking we could meet somewhere else where they could feel more comfortable. Isn't that the whole point of friendship?
https://youtu.be/MDej3riTOS4
How to become rich immediately by lorax2013
It's that most people aren't very aware of their surroundings. Ultimately it's a choice whether one trains one's self to be aware or not. It has nothing to do with rich or poor. You see them, standing in the middle of the grocery aisle blocking the way, oblivious to the existence of other people - and a thousand other similar scenarios. The same goes for being emotionally aware of other people and context related to them.
It sounds like the only thing your friends can do pro-actively is abandon you as a friend, stop hanging out with you, stop inviting you around. What else could they do given that you get angry and envious around them, and that's obviously not their fault. I'd suggest you have to correct that mental mistake or it's guaranteed those friendships won't last much longer.
Alternatively, instead of swimming in negative emotions, learn from your friends. So many of them are becoming rich, if that's what you want then see about learning from their accomplishments. Turn your time around them into a learning experience instead of a depressive torture. Turn that negative into a productive positive. If they care about you, they'll want to see you be successful as well.
The unsaid things sound like on the lines of “they had good fortune, but why don’t I have it”.
Hard questions, probably not fit to be answered over a text forum:
If they are your friends, why do you feel bad when your friends have a happy event?
Are they really not your friends but there’s some other type of relationship there?
Do they make you unhappy because of their actions or are you unhappy with your own situation to begin with and comparing it to their situation? If it’s the latter, what can you do to improve your situation?
Hope some self reflecting questions help.
The purpose of the "money isn't everything" mantra is to engender a servant class to preserve the wealth of our rulers.
Most people here are talking about being rich vs just being normal.
Put another way, there’s a HUGE difference between not having enough and having enough. There’s almost no difference between having enough and having more than enough. You can play this out with anything: money, food, free time, etc
And this is new: in many cases someone from their parents' generation who got the same degree and the same job would be debt free, because college used to be much, much less expensive (even after accounting for inflation) than it is now.
Example: University of California (Berkeley or UCLA, etc). Currently about $12k a year tuition. 35-40 years ago is was zero, with a couple of hundred dollars in fees.
Someone with depression who works two jobs without health insurance and is too exhausted outside of work to do anything but watch TV, now that's hopeless.
I agree. Now take someone who doesn’t have any of those problems and is in fact super rich, who still feels the same. I’m not sure if that would be better or worse actually.
There's a lot of 'hidden' costs too. Of course I'd be happier with an extra couple million dollars today - I could travel and retire! But not if I had to give up 18/hr a day for the next 5 years to get there.
I have to be blunt here: this is plutocrat propaganda.
No? Because that's the saying. The saying isn't "being rich isn't better than being poor". It's literally "money doesn't buy happiness".
Your argument is literally a strawman argument. No one made the argument you are rebutting against.
Anyone who doesn't live in a war zone and claims they aren't happy is literally telling the biggest lie ever told.
It hasn’t brought happiness, but it has removed one huge element of worry from my existence.
I’m still depressed, but that’s independent of any external factors, and I’ve grown to not mind it - being depressed is nowhere near as bad when you have a comfort blanket of cash.
A glass half-full approach doesn’t resolve wealth inequality.
As they say luck is when opportunity meets preparedness. So make your own luck.
That is to say: taking advantage of their wealthy situation is a good way to lose your friendship.
I have a few richer friends and while I would never take advantage, we know that if the worst were to happen, we could turn to each other for help.
For ex. I don't have any millionaire friends or family, though plenty are much more successful than myself.
Millionaires and successful people will exist whether or not you're friends with them, but while they're in your circle, consider their invitations their way of sharing the wealth? Something not everyone has access to. They chose you, they value you.
Consider these successful people are also resources. Imagine you need help finding a job, networking, potentially even a bailout. Seems like a great place to start.
Being happy for others is not an obligation. The only person you need to be happy for is yourself. You don't need to subject yourself to their flexing, peacocking, or keeping-up-with-the-jonses.
That being said, envy is not easy to deal with.
Your friends might be the catalyst, but envy is generally fueled by some other underlying insecurity.
ex. you care what other people think of you, you think you'll be judged by your wealth.
You'll need to self-reflect on what that is exactly.
I want them to know so they can make a conscious decision for themselves rather than unknowingly go down a path full of glass ceilings.
Edit: and a good influence pushing me into buying property a decade earlier certainly would have had massive effects on my life too.
Point is leverage your friends’ experience and influence, I’m sure they have a wealth of knowledge or can help you gain a step up (keyword: help, not give you a free ride). Others have said ‘don’t copy’ and I agree in some contexts, but my friends certainly have business gaps I can fill which are mutually beneficial.
But you make a good point to learn from others' experience and to have more good and consistent influences. And I wish I had some and I had listened to some.
I just keep quiet now since people don’t do things they’ve not “come up with” themselves
"You should have taken risk X rather than risk Y because X paid off" is not helpful advice.
Hindsight is 20/20, and different people have different safety buffers and values that will guide them to capital city vs satellite city.
Ah well, it’s probably good they didn’t follow my advice. if they make money they are geniuses, if they lose it’s my fault.