I hope Android ecosystem has good readermode-like app.
I have a 10 inch BOOX device and was using Instapaper. But it's buggy and fails paginated rendering a bit too often. vs. Pocket doesn't have any pagination mode.
Pagination is very nice to have especially for e-ink based devices where scroll UX isn't smooth.
Install Firefox Android and use Reader Mode on that.
If you want to save the article for offline reading with pagination, use the Print to PDF option on the Chromium-based Kiwi Browser, and select A5 paper. This is narrower and shorter than US Letter, so it'll flow better on a 7-inch screen.
Finally, if you want to convert articles to EPUB, you can do so by pasting the link into: https://dotepub.com/converter/?lang=en . On desktop, I have a FF extension that handles this, but it doesn't work on Android.
Everything I listed is for Android devices. I simply provided 2 different options because I too like reader mode but PDFs keep the fidelity of the original web page.
Hmm this is ... not bad! Wasn't aware of this before.
I still love pagination as the first citizen as it gets bottom margin right. But I think I can live with this page flip thing. Thanks!
I get overly excited with any e-ink release. Always looking for the Kindle that can do just a little bit more without becoming a distraction from reading.
Also, always looking for a Kindle that's less Amazon-y but still convenient.
It's probably a unicorn. Any Android device I'd probably get distracted too often and wind up frustrated with how poorly the distractions run on e-ink. I suspect that non-amazon e-readers have probably reached whispersync levels of convenience after a short learning curve but don't have any evidence to base that on.
Also, why can't Lenovo follow up the Yoga Book C930?!
The supernote A5X or A6X may be the device for you (they do come with kindle integration out of the box). I don´t have either device, I have Kindles, a reMarkable, and a Dasung Paperlike 13 inch e-ink monitor, which motivated me to reply. You wrote:
> It's probably a unicorn. Any Android device I'd probably get distracted too often and wind up frustrated with how poorly the distractions run on e-ink.
I came here to tell you that you're correct, and that this is actually a good thing. Many apps try to be all encompassing, so you don't realize you're distracted by them and waste time. Having a subpar experience gives you many chances to get your focus back to where you wanted it to be. I use my Paperwhite basically for writing and, when I'm writing, I'm writing, and that's it. Everything else looks bad, so I don't get distracted as easily and, when I do, I can quickly go back to what I wanted to do. I even set my display to black and white from time to time when I'm not home.
Although, since you asked, I do use my Paperwhite for writing, but I never released the software I glued together for that purpose.
I have a raspberry Pi set up as an access point running a little python/flask app that's controlling a X server receiving input both from the Kindle and from the regular keyboard / mouse. The flask serves the screen image, a container html, and some basic javascript to handle input (e.g. taps become clicks, long taps become right clicks) and update the image from time to time. The only tricky thing involved is that Kindle's browser is very very old, so you can´t do anything fancy or modern. The whole thing is basically a slightly modernized implementation of [1]
I have gone through so many devices and setups trying to find an ebook situation that makes sense. Kindle, Book, different sizes. Fantasy of reading Instapaper and PDFs and comics and stuff, not just ebooks, and having it not be a huge pain in the ass.
What I have found is that for me, ebook readers are good for ebooks and ebooks only. And just normal ebooks; PDFs stink on every e-ink device (including 12" devices I've used).
So my current setup is that my 12.9" iPad Pro is my "everything" reader since it's the only no-compromise device (PDFs and comics at full size) and it has the apps I need.
I now try to use my phone more for ebooks, and took social media off it. We'll see how that goes. Now that Kindles will automatically convert ePubs to KFX via sent-to-kindle maybe I will try that again, if KFX files can actually live in your personal documents library. (You can't sync sideloaded books with the Kindle unless they're in the terrible MOBI format.)
The ThinkBook Plus is pretty cool, and I'm glad Lenovo is still trying crazy things, but it's not a great successor to the Yoga Book C930.
It's much larger and heavier, really just a traditional laptop with e-ink bolted on. I'm sure the typing experience is far superior, but the Yoga Books were trying to be a totally new type of device. They were truly groundbreaking - actually introduced new possibilities for how a computer could be used.
It's a 10.3" e-ink device with a really nice touchscreen surface that supports low-latency, high-precision writing using a stylus. It's Linux-based and is highly hackable with lots of open-source projects:
I played with one; really nice hardware. Probably the ultimate digital note-taking device but for that price I'd expect it to do a little more. Had no idea it was hackable, that makes it much more interesting!
I've been eyeing their Nova 3 Color model for reading comics and taking notes, but thus far I've been able to convince myself that it would be best to wait a generation.
It's not going to be great for art (comics). It will mostly help you discern colors in graphs and papers. For art you should definitely get a tablet for now. It's early days for color e-ink.
That's kinda why I was thinking to wait a generation, but would it really be that bad to 40 year old eyes that have never been that good in the first place, and grew up reading comics printed on the cheapest newsprint available? The attraction for me is getting away from the glow of the screen during leisure time.
I made my choice from the same standpoint as you. I wanted less LCD time and it definitely did the trick. After all is said and done, it's a tradeoff. I accept that most graphic content will be less than ideal (well, maybe except manga which works great!). If you can accept this as well, go ahead and get one. You'll be happy with it.
Doesn't that just say that they didn't find much info about the device or the company? I get that not having policies is concerning but I don't get why mozilla said "privacy not included with this product" about the onyx but gave the kindle a pass even though that is actually known to track a lot of activity.
If you're a product owner, why not ask her for it? I assume you already asked since you implied they are not GPL compliant. Why not share the data for that and make it public? I'm sure that would get carried by many media channels. You could even get an injunction against them selling products into Europe if you enforce it. Asking me, a non-Onyx owner, here on HN simply doesn't achieve anything.
I didn’t imply that they are not GPL compliant. I stated it directly. I’m not interested in onyx’s products because they are a shitty company. I don’t have the time, energy, resources or motivations to improve a shitty company. I do have the time, energy, resources and motivation to share this singular fact with others so they can make their own choice about which companies they support.
> I didn’t imply that they are not GPL compliant. I stated it directly.
That's good. It would be even better to show that they are GPL non-compliant by showing their response and confirming they're not willing to comply. As you said, you're not able to, and that's fine, I'm just saying it would be even better if you could.
> I do have the time, energy, resources and motivation to share this singular fact with others so they can make their own choice about which companies they support.
The burden of proof is on Onyx, and not some random commenter who mentioned that there's no proof that they're GPL compliant. No one can seem to find a link to the source code. Maybe Onyx should make it easier to find?
> The burden of proof is on Onyx, and not some random commenter who mentioned that there's no proof that they're GPL compliant.
I agree with you that Onyx is likely in violation of the GPL. That said, the way I'm used to things is; the person who alleges a crime is committed is the one that has to show evidence. Onyx doesn't have to prove they're innocent. The prosecution has to prove they're guilty.
So if we want to see Onyx punished, then we need to find someone who owns an Onyx that has asked Onyx to comply with the GPL and provide source, and showing that they refused to do so. At that point, they would immediately be non-compliant and thus susceptible to many injunctions, meaning their products could be stopped at the border. Pretty sure they'd pay attention to that.
Thank you. I'm glad I didn't buy a boox. I was seriously contemplating it, and I was not aware of any of these issues until now. That forum thread is enlightening.
I see the link shows a forum discussion. I guess I was looking for something more like:
So if we want to see Onyx punished, then we need to find someone who owns an Onyx that has asked Onyx to comply with the GPL and provide source, and showing that they refused to do so. At that point, they would immediately be non-compliant and thus susceptible to many injunctions, meaning their products could be stopped at the border. Pretty sure they'd pay attention to that.
It needs to be a clear formal request with proof of ownership and failure of the supplier to provide source for the GPL to be applicable.
>then we need to find someone who owns an Onyx that has asked Onyx to comply with the GPL and provide source, and showing that they refused to do so.
That's in the link I provided.
Unfortunately, there isn't an automatic enforcement mechanism for cross-border GPL violations. There aren't lawyers waiting in the wings to file lawsuits on behalf of hackers who want to own their device. There isn't a framework for reporting these violations to any higher authority to advocate for us. I wish it were the case, but it's not.
Sorry, but to be very clear, all I see in the link is just a forum discussion. No clear request showing ownership and right to claim source code, no clear response from someone clearly representing the distributor of the product saying no source code shall be provided.
There is gpl-violations.org. Has anyone tried them?
It's been proven time and time again with this company. Until Onyx provides actual source code they are in violation. The burden of proof shifted to them once people could not locate the source code and they have yet to prove that they are not in violation.
Looking at that picture, I see a comment on a forum from "Onyx-Boox.ru". Is that the same as Onyx, the company that actually ships the products worldwide? My suggestion to you guys is:
So if we want to see Onyx punished, then we need to find someone who owns an Onyx that has asked Onyx to comply with the GPL and provide source, and showing that they refused to do so. At that point, they would immediately be non-compliant and thus susceptible to many injunctions, meaning their products could be stopped at the border. Pretty sure they'd pay attention to that.
It needs to be a clear formal request with proof of ownership and failure of the supplier to provide source for the GPL to be applicable.
A company is willfully behaving unethically, and someone chooses to vote with their wallet - I'm surprised that this is an argument you don't get. Granted, different people have different ideologies, triggers, etc, but the principle is fairly common.
The dispute is in who is in the wrong and I believe only a judge can determine the facts. I presume innocence until proven guilty.
For example, with Google vs Oracle on the Java API usage, Apple vs Epic Games on the App Store or even with Depp vs Amber Heard, there is no clear black-and-white.
Especially with so-called GPL violations (which seems to be a grey area), there is even accusations that Github Co-Pilot is in violation, and so, I think best thing to do is for a judge or for a legal authority to make a decision instead of cancel culture.
Fair enough. I am also generally against jumping to conclusions and mob justice, though I am not sure if a GPL2 violation is such a gray area in this format. It's a device shipped to a user, and the license states they need to be provided with the source on request. It's something the company should have addressed in the intervening time.
It makes sense to assume innocence until proven guilty when the facts are murky, but this seems to be straightforward. They modified GPL code and refused to honor the license by releasing the source.
If you witnessed someone snatch a wallet out of a child's hand and run away, you can reasonably conclude the snatcher is a thief. You wouldn't have to wait for a legal authority to tell you what you witnessed was a crime.
Given that this seems to be so straight-forward, why won't someone file a legal case or anything? (genuine question because for me, they're just calling for mob-justice otherwise)
IANAL, but AIUI: The current understanding is that such a suit would have to be filed by a copyright owner (so a kernel dev), not the user. There is a current lawsuit (https://wptavern.com/software-freedom-conservancy-takes-on-v...) challenging this, though.
The sad truth is that if you're only going to buy from ethical companies, you are probably SOL, especially when it comes to mobile devices. We all have our different lines in the sand. It's not possible to ethically consume. Cell phones all use cobalt, which is mined by hand exposing its miners (many of whom are children) to radiation, and nobody votes with their wallet against that. I'm not saying it's right, just making a point that we all trade ethics for convenience when it suits us.
Onyx makes a product that just doesn't exist elsewhere, and there aren't much better alternatives for affordable e-ink. You could always jailbreak your kindle if you somehow think that Amazon is a more ethical company.
> Cell phones all use cobalt, which is mined by hand exposing its miners (many of whom are children) to radiation, and nobody votes with their wallet against that.
Fairphone users do. We may be a small subset, but we're here, and I hope by showing a possible alternative supply chain we can show larger manufacturers that alternatives exist.
So what, because we can't yet be perfect on every axis we should just give up? Yes, limiting yourself to products that behave ethically towards the user reduces one's options, but not to zero; in this space, Kobo is probably best right now until the PineNote is ready.
Darn. That's not even just a problem of principle; not having kernel source is gonna make it a right pain (if not impossible) to port a replacement ROM and keep the hardware updated after the manufacturer drops support.
What's the proper course of action for folks like us? Report them to a GPL violations hotline?
I don't ask in jest, I just was arguing with CAT (yes the heavy equipment people) about getting ROM/sources for their Android ROM, which they've stated they won't even ship the .bin out of the company.
GPL works on the honor system because its not a life or death matter that necessitates external enforcement. There are lots of things we in society used to do simply because it was the right thing to do. Nowadays everything seems to need to be nailed down by the letter of the law in order for people to abide by them.
I have two Note Airs and I can recommend it in terms of its' functionality and performance; I usually use it to write on MS OneNote with the stylus.
Also, I live in a South-East Asian country where-in alternatives such as Remarkable, Supernote, etc.. are not available and so I appreciate Boox for making their product available here.
I have one and I really like it (upgrading from an early Kindle Paperwhite) I find that that the built in e-reader software (which handles epub, pdf, djvu and other common formats) works better than installing standard Android applications for that purpose (although those also work if sometimes a bit sluggishly). In terms of Android apps, I mostly use Libby, as my public library uses that for not only ebooks but e-magazines. I read The Economist and The New Yorker that way, which is nicer than reading it using Libby on my phone as I used to do.
This is simply not true. I've had mine since February. It is a 7" ONYX Boox Leaf. Either the article is incorrect, or they are referring to some sort of updated version of it (still calling it the 7" Leaf).
I have the 10" model from last year and battery life is a blast compared to any tablet whatsoever. Days and weeks before charging. It does have Android and it works well, but also, it's not great for everything you'd do with a tablet. Games, videos, anything with a fast input or refresh rates is going to be a poor experience. Reading is great though. Keep in mind they also violate FOSS licenses which is a deal breaker to a lot of people.
I was incredibly underwhelmed by the Elipsa and returned it when it came out. Expecting it to have improved over the past year, I ordered the 8” version (which I forget the name of now), but it was equally as underwhelming and I returned it as well.
I ended up getting a Remarkable 2, and while I think the subscription model is… ehh, I’m not bound by it, and haven’t run into any scenarios where I actually need it. From a hardware perspective it has worked significantly better than the Elipsa did.
I don’t mean to take the wind out of your sails, just giving my anecdotal experience.
Thanks, the shift to subscriptions made me skip the remarkable 2. I just need a simple large ereader to read arxiv papers at the park or the beach because the ipad doesn't cut it in the sun. I'm hoping the kobo will do.
I also saw that a new software update made the elipse much more responsive and from a detailed review that i saw it has one of the better eink displays (high refresh rate and no banding)
Still using a Sony PRS-T1 ereader hacked to run Android 2.2 (think it has a 650MHz Freescale ARM and 256MB RAM), which I got back when there were no options available for a general-purpose device with eink. Glad things have changed.
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[ 2.9 ms ] story [ 133 ms ] threadI have a 10 inch BOOX device and was using Instapaper. But it's buggy and fails paginated rendering a bit too often. vs. Pocket doesn't have any pagination mode.
Pagination is very nice to have especially for e-ink based devices where scroll UX isn't smooth.
If you want to save the article for offline reading with pagination, use the Print to PDF option on the Chromium-based Kiwi Browser, and select A5 paper. This is narrower and shorter than US Letter, so it'll flow better on a 7-inch screen.
Finally, if you want to convert articles to EPUB, you can do so by pasting the link into: https://dotepub.com/converter/?lang=en . On desktop, I have a FF extension that handles this, but it doesn't work on Android.
Also, always looking for a Kindle that's less Amazon-y but still convenient.
It's probably a unicorn. Any Android device I'd probably get distracted too often and wind up frustrated with how poorly the distractions run on e-ink. I suspect that non-amazon e-readers have probably reached whispersync levels of convenience after a short learning curve but don't have any evidence to base that on.
Also, why can't Lenovo follow up the Yoga Book C930?!
Anyway, yay e-ink!
> It's probably a unicorn. Any Android device I'd probably get distracted too often and wind up frustrated with how poorly the distractions run on e-ink.
I came here to tell you that you're correct, and that this is actually a good thing. Many apps try to be all encompassing, so you don't realize you're distracted by them and waste time. Having a subpar experience gives you many chances to get your focus back to where you wanted it to be. I use my Paperwhite basically for writing and, when I'm writing, I'm writing, and that's it. Everything else looks bad, so I don't get distracted as easily and, when I do, I can quickly go back to what I wanted to do. I even set my display to black and white from time to time when I'm not home.
Wait, you use your Paperwhite for writing? How?
Although, since you asked, I do use my Paperwhite for writing, but I never released the software I glued together for that purpose.
I have a raspberry Pi set up as an access point running a little python/flask app that's controlling a X server receiving input both from the Kindle and from the regular keyboard / mouse. The flask serves the screen image, a container html, and some basic javascript to handle input (e.g. taps become clicks, long taps become right clicks) and update the image from time to time. The only tricky thing involved is that Kindle's browser is very very old, so you can´t do anything fancy or modern. The whole thing is basically a slightly modernized implementation of [1]
[1] https://hackaday.com/2015/08/21/easy-to-read-bicycle-compute...
What I have found is that for me, ebook readers are good for ebooks and ebooks only. And just normal ebooks; PDFs stink on every e-ink device (including 12" devices I've used).
So my current setup is that my 12.9" iPad Pro is my "everything" reader since it's the only no-compromise device (PDFs and comics at full size) and it has the apps I need.
I now try to use my phone more for ebooks, and took social media off it. We'll see how that goes. Now that Kindles will automatically convert ePubs to KFX via sent-to-kindle maybe I will try that again, if KFX files can actually live in your personal documents library. (You can't sync sideloaded books with the Kindle unless they're in the terrible MOBI format.)
Have you seen the ThinkBook Plus Gen 2? This is the spiritual successor to the C930, with dual LCD/eink screens.
It's much larger and heavier, really just a traditional laptop with e-ink bolted on. I'm sure the typing experience is far superior, but the Yoga Books were trying to be a totally new type of device. They were truly groundbreaking - actually introduced new possibilities for how a computer could be used.
https://remarkable.com/
It's a 10.3" e-ink device with a really nice touchscreen surface that supports low-latency, high-precision writing using a stylus. It's Linux-based and is highly hackable with lots of open-source projects:
https://github.com/reHackable/awesome-reMarkable
It seems to stand alone....
Yay e-ink, boo GPL violations.
I considered them for an e-note device previously but this is one of the reasons I chose to go with a different device (Supernote) instead.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onyx_Boox#GPL_Compliance
That's good. It would be even better to show that they are GPL non-compliant by showing their response and confirming they're not willing to comply. As you said, you're not able to, and that's fine, I'm just saying it would be even better if you could.
> I do have the time, energy, resources and motivation to share this singular fact with others so they can make their own choice about which companies they support.
That's fine.
I agree with you that Onyx is likely in violation of the GPL. That said, the way I'm used to things is; the person who alleges a crime is committed is the one that has to show evidence. Onyx doesn't have to prove they're innocent. The prosecution has to prove they're guilty.
So if we want to see Onyx punished, then we need to find someone who owns an Onyx that has asked Onyx to comply with the GPL and provide source, and showing that they refused to do so. At that point, they would immediately be non-compliant and thus susceptible to many injunctions, meaning their products could be stopped at the border. Pretty sure they'd pay attention to that.
http://bbs.onyx-international.com/t/install-linux-or-alterna...
I see the link shows a forum discussion. I guess I was looking for something more like:
So if we want to see Onyx punished, then we need to find someone who owns an Onyx that has asked Onyx to comply with the GPL and provide source, and showing that they refused to do so. At that point, they would immediately be non-compliant and thus susceptible to many injunctions, meaning their products could be stopped at the border. Pretty sure they'd pay attention to that.
It needs to be a clear formal request with proof of ownership and failure of the supplier to provide source for the GPL to be applicable.
That's in the link I provided.
Unfortunately, there isn't an automatic enforcement mechanism for cross-border GPL violations. There aren't lawyers waiting in the wings to file lawsuits on behalf of hackers who want to own their device. There isn't a framework for reporting these violations to any higher authority to advocate for us. I wish it were the case, but it's not.
There is gpl-violations.org. Has anyone tried them?
Here's one response from the company where they deflect on this issue: https://i.redd.it/0lx58maqrbb51.png
The link you were shared above on Wikipedia also has another response, where they decline to provide source: http://bbs.onyx-international.com/t/install-linux-or-alterna...
Looking at that picture, I see a comment on a forum from "Onyx-Boox.ru". Is that the same as Onyx, the company that actually ships the products worldwide? My suggestion to you guys is:
So if we want to see Onyx punished, then we need to find someone who owns an Onyx that has asked Onyx to comply with the GPL and provide source, and showing that they refused to do so. At that point, they would immediately be non-compliant and thus susceptible to many injunctions, meaning their products could be stopped at the border. Pretty sure they'd pay attention to that.
It needs to be a clear formal request with proof of ownership and failure of the supplier to provide source for the GPL to be applicable.
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/hl09g7/onyx_boox_chi...
https://www.reddit.com/r/Onyx_Boox/comments/hsn7kx/onyx_usin...
For me as a customer, I just appreciate that I can enjoy a well-made and advanced tablet that meets my needs.
For example, with Google vs Oracle on the Java API usage, Apple vs Epic Games on the App Store or even with Depp vs Amber Heard, there is no clear black-and-white.
Especially with so-called GPL violations (which seems to be a grey area), there is even accusations that Github Co-Pilot is in violation, and so, I think best thing to do is for a judge or for a legal authority to make a decision instead of cancel culture.
If you witnessed someone snatch a wallet out of a child's hand and run away, you can reasonably conclude the snatcher is a thief. You wouldn't have to wait for a legal authority to tell you what you witnessed was a crime.
It's costly to file a lawsuit.
GP isn't calling for mob anything. They just stated that they're personally boycotting the company.
Onyx makes a product that just doesn't exist elsewhere, and there aren't much better alternatives for affordable e-ink. You could always jailbreak your kindle if you somehow think that Amazon is a more ethical company.
Fairphone users do. We may be a small subset, but we're here, and I hope by showing a possible alternative supply chain we can show larger manufacturers that alternatives exist.
Posted from my Fairphone 4
https://www.fairphone.com/
There's also the problem of actually purchasing one, the fairphone website only ships to EU
I don't ask in jest, I just was arguing with CAT (yes the heavy equipment people) about getting ROM/sources for their Android ROM, which they've stated they won't even ship the .bin out of the company.
Also, I live in a South-East Asian country where-in alternatives such as Remarkable, Supernote, etc.. are not available and so I appreciate Boox for making their product available here.
I ended up getting a Remarkable 2, and while I think the subscription model is… ehh, I’m not bound by it, and haven’t run into any scenarios where I actually need it. From a hardware perspective it has worked significantly better than the Elipsa did.
I don’t mean to take the wind out of your sails, just giving my anecdotal experience.
I also saw that a new software update made the elipse much more responsive and from a detailed review that i saw it has one of the better eink displays (high refresh rate and no banding)
Too bad they are violating FOSS licenses because their products are great. Have to make a choice there.