I've heard people say it, speaking like this: "This would be a great solution to the problem, except that it would break the admin dashboard. And billing. And SSO. And partner test environments. And. And. And. And. And. This would break so many things I'm sure I could only name half of them if I tried."
Agreed--it seems likely that the user was writing dialogue, taking minutes, or something similar.
Skilled speakers frequently use repetitions of a word (like 'and') as an interjection[0]. It's a handy way of giving yourself a second to think without saying 'uhh' or 'umm' (which, for whatever reason, are considered 'bad' interjections), and seems to be a kind of defense against being interrupted.
Years ago in school, maybe about 1992 or so, I managed to make xdm (X Display Manager) crash and dump me a root window by simply holding down a key until the buffer ran out. I remember wondering how anybody didn't discover this before me. Similar behavior with the university phone system (repeatedly pressing '0') eventually dropped me an outside line that I didn't have to pay for (yes, for you young folks, we used to have to pay for long distance phone calls, on phones that didn't fit in our pockets).
I always suspect that software I'm using is not really tested. If there are animations or whatever is happening asynchronously monkey bashing will trigger lots of issues.
I seem to remember that a few years ago some versions of either TouchWiz or Android, that you could overflow into unlocking the phone.
The number required was pretty high, but you could get to it by copy pasting an already typed (In the emergeny dialer) number for a while, crashing the lockscreen until the next reset
You just reminded me what we found in college (on campus). We could dial out to the other college, then back into ours, and then externally to get free long distance calls.
I'm sure you're great. Nothing against you, but please don't do that. Just write what you mean if you can't handle some people misinterpreting a sarcastic remark. Let's think about this for a second. What's the point of sarcasm? If you have to tell people you're being sarcastic, are you still being sarcastic? Not sure what territory, "/s" blunders into, but I'm confident it's not sarcasm. It's something else that seems kinda... dumb... like on a fundamental level. Did people think themselves above saying, "jk"? Mostly I've just seen, "/s" beg the question of why someone would go and ruin a good sarcasm, or whether the thing they labeled as such was ever sarcasm to begin with. Like the parent comment here for example, it's not sarcasm. There's no biting irony, mockery, or criticism. It's just a silly non-sequitur joke remark. You'd have to be like legitimately autistic or something to not see that, and at that point, "/s" is just a drop in a bucket. I mean hot-take here, sorry, but let's think twice before adopting social queues from reddit.
Indicating sarcasm is not necessarily ruining it though. Look at IRL sarcasm, it will generally be accompanied with the right tone of voice and expression / body language that make its presence unequivocal. That doesn’t necessarily ruin it
It's the same reason why I often throw a emoji on the end of a sentence to a friend. Sometimes the sentence on its own can sound aggressive or hostile and a quick fix for that is a little emoji that can help make sure my tone is clear. I view something like "/s" as being quite similar to this. You're not ruining the sarcasm, but instead ensuring your tone is properly understood.
The very best sarcasm is so perfectly balanced and indistinguishable from the real deal, that it will leave its audience wondering but not missing the potential for sarcasm. Then the person that delivered it will promptly move on, before the audience gets a chance to really think about it.
Written works have had sarcasm, irony, and related forms of wit for as long as they've existed. While people might miss the mark, it doesn't mean we should just give it up as impossible just because we're now writing comments online.
And it probably says more about me than the writer, but I always cringe when I see /s since it seems to be implying "Hey, in case you're a bit slow, this is sarcasm. Glad to help."
Sarcasm is by definition kind of elitist. You get it, and you're in the cool group, or you don't and you go on your way. It's a puzzle to solve. Removing all uncertainty removes its fundamental essence.
/s is just a wink, you still have to figure out whether the person did really fart and if so how they concealed it. You’re just here farting and calling it higher smelling because you think you’re the only one smelling it.
I've never seen that interpretation, but I have to say -- as someone who is not a fan of the /s, I find the fact that it could be interpreted as the exact opposite of the standard meaning pretty funny. In fact I think I will start using it this way, to sow discord among the /s fans. /s
Unless other techniques like bolding/italics etc are employed, or you work for DC Comics... because using MORE WORDS to correctly convey meaning is SO hard, YESSIR
> You'd have to be like legitimately autistic or something to not see that, and at that point, "/s" is just a drop in a bucket.
I read up to this point thinking you’re being overly pedantic about the specific use of a sarc mark and overly dismissive of the benefit of intent-clarifying hints in text. All the while thinking “I’m going to comment about how much I value intent-clarifying hints in text… and then I have to decide whether I want to mention I’m autistic, and prepare for all of the ways I might be misconstrued or dismissed further.”
So here we are, you’ve saved me the trouble of making that decision. I personally very much appreciate when people signal intent when their meaning can be ambiguous. It doesn’t always feel necessary for me, but it’s never once felt like it taken away from something I otherwise understood as obvious.
My take, which is much cooler than it was when I was gathering thoughts leading up to this but still mildly hot is: what harm does it do to you if someone voluntarily makes something more accessible to someone who’s not you? If you already grokked /s from a sarcastic remark, it’s a tiny bit of information you can scroll past. I understand not explicitly recognizing and endorsing how it might benefit autistic readers, but explicitly rejecting it because it might is baffling.
I agree in principle, but if there's one thing internet commenting has taught me, it's that a tragically large number of people are somehow getting though life with broken sarcasm detectors.
Sorry, had two night shifts. Still owe you an answer. From my perspective. Since this is only text, no emojis ... how do you know that the person reading will get your tone / intention. Well, you don't. And thats you fundamental right: To say what you like and how you like it. This is why I phrased the remark like it is: In my opinion, your comment is 50/50 for understood / misunderstood, why not raise the odds of understanding in your favour. There is "good sarcasm" in personal communication with people who can read you. But this is a public forum ... anyway. Have a good weekend.
_Big_ Adams, Twain, Barry, Pratchett, and most things sardonic, sarcastic, and satiric right here, who's also "autistic AF" as the kids say.
"/s" is stupid, always has been. I'm not sure if sarcasm is sarcasm if it comes with metadata, but if you're gonna use metadata, use balanced tags!
Edit: I read the link, and laughed at it. If anything, I get into trouble using sarcasm /too/ often (esp. as a kid), I know a few other aspies like this too. I think all one can say on the topic is that if you're on the spectrum your "sarcasm center" might be poorly deficient OR pumped up into overdrive.
I know it's a long rant on this point but I really wish more people understood that with ASD sometimes these things manifest as a deficiency...but sometimes as the opposite of a deficiency (a surfeit?).
Not many people know this, but similar to image alt text, the <s></s> tag was originally introduced for accessibility reasons, so that people with autism and similar conditions can experience the web in the same way as more neuro-typical folks do. The tags should be invisible in the average browser, unless you've got sarcasm highlighting turned on. Unfortunately, the feature hasn't really caught on, and it remains unsupported by most software.
Huh, I totally missed that "/s" was a sarcasm flag. I was thinking that usually it is ":s/" not "/s", and was looking for the completion, or if they really did mean "/s" that's not the best way to find ands.
You joke, but comparing to past cases, I see no reason to believe it couldn't be considered a crime depending on who you do it to. All depends on the existence of some grumpy idiot with too much power.
It's interesting seeing how many people interact with that link. +40 users in a matter of minutes, and some instant spam suggestions too. Kind of funny.
Google Docs crashes in Firefox on Windows 10 with your link.
When I re-create the document from scratch, it does not crash.
When I copy the link to my non-crashing document and load it in a new tab, the crash then occurs when I edit the document in the new tab but not when I edit it in the original tab.
No, it's on, just tried it again, got the blue underlines and everything. Original tab doesn't crash, new tabs crash (although I can usually get a few characters in before the crash), once I close the original tab obviously the crashes are permanent.
Sort of related, last night I managed to make Clang crash by feeding it a certain C++ program: https://i.imgur.com/r5MC2aK.png
It was very surprising that there was a way to get Clang to segfault. Should I report it somewhere?
The code is basically doing a recursive template expansion with some C++20 concept constraints. So it's not quite as simple as "And. And...", but it's similar in that certain input text causes a crash. I just have no idea whether to report it, or where.
Thank you for the link! Maybe that should've been obvious to me, but it really wasn't -- I had no clue where to start. The segfault just said "Please attach these files to the bug report" with no more info. Really appreciated.
In that case I'll spend some time to clean up the repro case and submit it. Thanks again.
Clang segfaulting is somewhat common. It usually doesn't happen, but sometimes when I write some cursed template metaprogramming code it crashes and I'm not surprised. In your case, especially because you are using C++20 concepts, that is a newer feature and you probably hit some less-tested codepath.
Note that it might be worth trying the latest clang version first. The latest proper version is 14.0.0 from Mar 25, which is only a month old compared to the 7 months of 13.0.0, but if it's something that's condensable to a single file, you could test it on https://godbolt.org/z/hv41441jK, which has daily builds.
Hypothesis from chatting about this with people nearby - somehow this string makes the grammar engine search space too large (that's the AI that predicts your next words) and it's running out of memory.
Refreshing was the key. Just typing it in does nothing, but refreshing or opening a saved document from your documents in docs with the text in it already leads to the crash.
440 comments
[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 330 ms ] threadLet's place bets:
A) The user just let autocomplete "take it away" (not sure about this one since they were able to access the console)
B) Pen Testing?
C) Error copy and pasting?
D) Actual dialog in a sci-fi post-apocalyptic love story where a robot discovers the Turing test and attempts to set itself into an infinite loop.
Skilled speakers frequently use repetitions of a word (like 'and') as an interjection[0]. It's a handy way of giving yourself a second to think without saying 'uhh' or 'umm' (which, for whatever reason, are considered 'bad' interjections), and seems to be a kind of defense against being interrupted.
[0] https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna42822623 (a Meet the Press transcript which contains eight "and, and"s and one "and, and, and"!)
The number required was pretty high, but you could get to it by copy pasting an already typed (In the emergeny dialer) number for a while, crashing the lockscreen until the next reset
[0] https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2015-3860
At one such position (reasonably well-known product within the tech world), there was clear pushback not to file bugs of this nature.
I didn't stick with that position long.
personally, i've happened across some pretty serious security bugs this way.
That comment is from the submitter of the issue (and HN post), the poem is from Eliza Callahan (copy found here): https://durationandthebodyelizacallahan.cargo.site
The relevant excerpt: "I thought about my body. It’s past. It’s present… Which made me think about the word and. And. And. And. And. And. Then."
"And. And. And. And." caused no problems.
"And. And. And. And. And. And." also crashes (5 "And."s is a substring, so makes sense).
I cannot imagine how this bug is occurring.
Edit: You guys have no sense of humor.
(gotem)
And it probably says more about me than the writer, but I always cringe when I see /s since it seems to be implying "Hey, in case you're a bit slow, this is sarcasm. Glad to help."
Sarcasm is by definition kind of elitist. You get it, and you're in the cool group, or you don't and you go on your way. It's a puzzle to solve. Removing all uncertainty removes its fundamental essence.
"{sarcasm here} /s {seriousness here}"
I read up to this point thinking you’re being overly pedantic about the specific use of a sarc mark and overly dismissive of the benefit of intent-clarifying hints in text. All the while thinking “I’m going to comment about how much I value intent-clarifying hints in text… and then I have to decide whether I want to mention I’m autistic, and prepare for all of the ways I might be misconstrued or dismissed further.”
So here we are, you’ve saved me the trouble of making that decision. I personally very much appreciate when people signal intent when their meaning can be ambiguous. It doesn’t always feel necessary for me, but it’s never once felt like it taken away from something I otherwise understood as obvious.
My take, which is much cooler than it was when I was gathering thoughts leading up to this but still mildly hot is: what harm does it do to you if someone voluntarily makes something more accessible to someone who’s not you? If you already grokked /s from a sarcastic remark, it’s a tiny bit of information you can scroll past. I understand not explicitly recognizing and endorsing how it might benefit autistic readers, but explicitly rejecting it because it might is baffling.
_Big_ Adams, Twain, Barry, Pratchett, and most things sardonic, sarcastic, and satiric right here, who's also "autistic AF" as the kids say.
"/s" is stupid, always has been. I'm not sure if sarcasm is sarcasm if it comes with metadata, but if you're gonna use metadata, use balanced tags!
Edit: I read the link, and laughed at it. If anything, I get into trouble using sarcasm /too/ often (esp. as a kid), I know a few other aspies like this too. I think all one can say on the topic is that if you're on the spectrum your "sarcasm center" might be poorly deficient OR pumped up into overdrive.
I know it's a long rant on this point but I really wish more people understood that with ASD sometimes these things manifest as a deficiency...but sometimes as the opposite of a deficiency (a surfeit?).
Right?
Autistic people exist, and read things on the internet. Attempts to help them are neither "idiotic" nor "illiterate".
> Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith
It is a joke, poking fun at our overly aggressive cyber crimes laws.
?
Doesn't appear to be an issue for the android app, but that might be a cache thing.
Thank you for the repro case!
When I re-create the document from scratch, it does not crash.
When I copy the link to my non-crashing document and load it in a new tab, the crash then occurs when I edit the document in the new tab but not when I edit it in the original tab.
It was very surprising that there was a way to get Clang to segfault. Should I report it somewhere?
The code is basically doing a recursive template expansion with some C++20 concept constraints. So it's not quite as simple as "And. And...", but it's similar in that certain input text causes a crash. I just have no idea whether to report it, or where.
In that case I'll spend some time to clean up the repro case and submit it. Thanks again.
The message should include the URL.
Sounds like a bug that should be reported.
Please do. You can open an issue (Bugzilla has been deprecated) on LLVM's github repo: https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project
Hypothesis from chatting about this with people nearby - somehow this string makes the grammar engine search space too large (that's the AI that predicts your next words) and it's running out of memory.
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo. (2)
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_while_John_had_had_had_h...
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffal...
EDIT: Ah, I had to reload the page, thank you child comments.