Ask HN: In these uncertain times, how do you handle anxiousness
I'm paying myself a small salary compared to what I earn and I invest everything else.
Given my income and my economic situation I shouldn't feel anxious, yet I can't relax thinking every hour spent watching netflix is in a way costing me ~110$.
So when I don't have any more work for the week, I work on my hard and soft skills through certifications so I can up even more my hourly rate.
It's a never ending race, I've been playing this game since 2016, finding new ways to earn more, not because I'm passionate about it, but because I'm anxious everything could come crashing down in a couple of years and I'll need the money.
I feel like we are destroying our planet, destroying our economy, we make poor people poorer, stir political extremes, we alienate the younger generation with social medias, there is war in Europe, everything is about politics when it should be about science and people...
I've tried not caring, going to bars and restaurants and beautiful places in vacation, getting a new car, finding hobbies... but I can't pretend, I don't know how to cope anymore.
So I work, always, because I'm anxious I won't be able to provide for the people around me, my sister won't earn enough to feed her family, my mom won't be able to retire even though her work is killing her, my dad's small business will be ruined if the economy collapses...
157 comments
[ 3.4 ms ] story [ 229 ms ] threadThe above paragraph isn't intended to assure you that all problems are trivial or can be safely ignored. Just because we survived the Cold War doesn't mean that whatever upcoming international conflicts face us will end as benignly as that one did. As they say "Past Performance Is No Guarantee of Future Results."
However, the important message is that you can live your life despite the ongoing problems in the world. You can appreciate the time with your family, a good meal, a beautiful sunset. You owe it to yourself to enjoy those things, and not take the burden of the entire world on yourself. It requires confidence to believe that you'll face future challenges when they come, not before. It requires some discipline to compartmentalize your immediate, day-to-day existence away from what we read about in the news or on Twitter, but I think it's worthwhile. Meditation may help. Talking about your feelings may help.
I also had a normal job + an hourly gig in the evenings + studying for a master degree. I'm not exactly sure what changed but I stopped caring about that race of needing to be productive 100% of the time. It's a fallacy, I think at some point I realised I'll be alright even if I lose everything, I just need food and shelter and I should be able to afford that in most scenarios. I think it had an ego component as well, at least for me, it was about being "successful" as external validation. As I matured I felt naturally more confortable with my situation and it passed ... I hope it will for you as well.
As for the feeling of doom, my only recomendation is to step back from the news and the constant bombardment of "bad things". No need to become a hermit, but come back from the world stage and look at your neighbourhood, maybe read local news instead and reconect to your actual surroundings. Reading and talking about the new park they're opening next door instead of what's going on miles away has helped me a bit.
And once you come to that realisation, you can start living off some of those savings just to chill out and not be "productive". While in reality that's probably what you need.
Worst case scenario for the OP is probably finding another gig in a few weeks.
You have back up investments, so you did things to have a fail over plan. Just relax!
Ultimately, your mental health can only be solved by one person. You.
I can also relate to the feeling of losing money when not working. Basically I've come to terms with the fact that, yes, a day off is expensive, but it's worth it to spend time with my family and taking care of myself.
Also, I don't think it's true. Most people don't want improved material circumstances as much as they want dignity and peace of mind. Yes, most people in the world are objectively poor and would benefit a lot from having more money; still, the idea that people are obsessed with material gain or envy is endemic to the West under capitalism but not universal. They would not "trade lives". It's the same as with refugee crises and mass migration--they don't want to leave their homelands and families, but have no other choice.
And besides that, we are the group of people who have the best chance to see the bigger picture due to our good life's.its not helping me if I know that the person in china has air pollution and other issues and is busy with there also stressful life's and is too busy to see climate change
Also while I care about bio diversity there are plenty of people who don't.
Should I now stop caring? Probably not.
The person so worse off may not be so far away as you imagine.
When we were in Iran I met people who are open and modern and like everyone else I know.
But then you have plenty of people who wash there close in the river, are highly religios etc.
If anything happens, you will have a way better position than anyone else.
If you want to prepare for the most likely things to happen, care about your health, because neglecting it WILL come back to you. Learn to relax, exercise, eat healthy, spend quality time with loved ones.
Any apocalyptical event is extremely unlikely. Even the pandemic is, after all, handled pretty well and did not turn out to be the end of civilization.
And remember, news site live from ad impressions these days News have to be scary to be clicked, bad news are repeated and exaggerated. Nobody wants to read "all is fine today", and a lot of news is " because of X, Y might happen", although it barely happens. Deal with it like with engineering: It's a problem, when it's a problem. Otherwise move on.
It sounds like you've had good financial habits during the good times and have a good chunk of money saved and invested. That's a great place to be. If you lost all of your income sources tomorrow, would it take you long to find another job? ANY job? There are still lots of tech jobs out there, but there is also an abundance of service work in many cities that they cannot fill. That could be enough to cover expenses, though you probably won't save.
Aside from the above, I would recommend seeing a therapist to help you navigate this time in your life.
I think my opinion is unpopular, but it shouldn't be, and perhaps the fact that it's unpopular is part of the reason why so many people find themselves in this situation.
It sounds like you need to speak to a professional and go to therapy. You're putting too much pressure into things that are completely outside of your control, and part of living a healthy live is accepting that you cannot control the universe and learning how to detach yourself from these issues.
Until I talked to a therapist. Initially we spoke every week, now I talk to her about once a month. We talk about everything. What bothers me at work. What bothers me in the world. Things that are going well. Things that are unfair. And she's an impartial advisor on how I can handle and deal with my feelings.
Going to a therapist has turned my life around for the better, and I feel dumb for not going earlier.
If we break our bones we visit a doctor. If our teeth hurt we visit a dentist. And similarly when we feel depressed we should talk to a therapist.
I hope OP finds the help he needs.
Depends on your health insurance, financial standing and free time. If you're an affluent tech worker you probably would go to a dentist for a toothache. Most people I know would not.
I wouldn't compare mental health to broken bones. We've been successfully treating broken bones for thousands of years. Seeking treatment for depression or generalized anxiety is more similar to seeing a doctor for some poorly understood malady like ME/CFS or IBS. No one really understands what's going on or why. You might try some medication or treatment and it might work, do nothing or make things worse.
It's worth a try but it's not a silver bullet. If your life sucks and your future prospects are bad then therapy is really just helping you cope.
Your comments about income inequality are valid but the OP stated he has sufficient income that he should be able to find help. My benefits package pays for a dozen therapy sessions and the rest are $25 each. Ironically my company doesn’t provide dental insurance. Apparently being an affluent tech worker means you don’t need to have working teeth ;).
And, to be clear, "Helping you cope" is so extremely powerful and is essentially the point of therapy, most religions, and all major life philosophies. Coping skills are the foundation of solid mental health and long-term happiness.
You're not wrong, but we gotta start somewhere.
Not sure if you enhance the stigma by writing this though.
Here’s the thing, they’re not! There’s multiple things you can do here. One is that you can choose your battles. Part of life is accepting that you can’t fix everything, or even devote all your effort into it. That isn’t to say “just give up”, it’s more that you should find the best thing an average consumer can do here and just do that. Vote. Eat vegan. Donate to Ukraine. Whatever it is.
But, one thing you can do is dedicate an above-average amount of effort into a few things you really care about. A lot of people find this to be a good way to find fulfillment, perhaps it might work here too. You can’t make your impact on everything but you can definitely aim towards fixing something.
It is so funny how thinks matter so little... the things that we as humans put so much weight in. I used to worry so much about work, life, dying in a plane accident (I got nervous everytime I flew). And yet... I got COVID and really fucked me up (even though I am no overweight, have no comorbidities, etc etc... healthy 40 yo adult). As a result of the Covid and AZ vaccines I got an ischemic stroke. Just like that. That has really changed my view of life, now work doesn't matter that much, and my priorities have changed a ton. I still do my job happily and what I do excites me. But you bet I won't be spending the time and effort I spent about 10 years ago when I took a startup from 6 people to Series B. My health (me), family (wife) and extended family (dad, mom, brother) are my main priorities now. And of course, enjoying life.
There are so many things out of our control that shouldn't worry us, and normally the things that matter and that we can control, we decide to let them slide.
The OP may be suffering from an anxiety disorder. A therapist is a good first step to getting it identified and start getting it treated.
Then read Shoe Dog by Phil Knight and go running again.
If you have gotten unfit the book will have you laughing with the guy at all he had thrown at him and then you'll find that you get over yourself the next run you take.
Any other books that people know about this positive?
I've been totally kicked up my rear by Knight's book, in the best possible way.
Phil Knight’s thrust in life and the way he constantly ratcheted himself through tough times is vividly captured in Shoe Dog. Highly recommend it.
> So I work, always, because I'm anxious I won't be able to provide for the people around me, my sister won't earn enough to feed her family, my mom won't be able to retire even though her work is killing her, my dad's small business will be ruined if the economy collapses...
This indicates a great attitude. You have a massive sense of personal responsibility, not only over your own life, but of your loved ones. You are what high-performing, generous cultures are made of.
So, perhaps some appropriate advice for you, whose sense of responsibility for everything is overwhelming, is to limit your intake of news. News is becoming more extreme in order to pull attention from digital alternatives. I don't have a good news source to recommend, other than perhaps the Financial Times, that won't exacerbate this trait of yours.
And although some things are tough - we need to get on to sustainable energy and packaging; ongoing wars are still just as nightmarish as they always were - what is considered poor in the 21st century is beyond the dreams of people in the past. Every step of progress, even while it makes some people rich, enhances the lives of millions and (occasionally) billions. The great threat of Facebook is so easy to turn off we could all do it tomorrow by uninstalling it. Compare that to the pre-polio vaccine era, before dentistry and analgesics, the constant real violence of the past, both in war and domestically in pre-police times, the pre-GMO food sources that would've meant a billion starving.
Now a single violent incident can get national attention in some countries, when it was a way of life less than 200 years ago.
So it's not perfect, but if you think things are getting worse, I have to disagree with your news sources. Choose them carefully.
You're effectively saying "you don't have any problems". It's an abusive tactic in relationships.
Sleeping 6 hours will cost you a lot more, but you're fine with that, right?
> everything could come crashing down in a couple of years and I'll need the money
If everything comes crashing down, your money will be useless. It will be inflated away. You dont really need the money though, you earn 10x what your neighbour earns and they are 10x less worried... maybe you should re-evaluate the value of money in life, you give it too much importance.
If you stop reading the news and discover that you and the people around you are mostly happy and you are able to ease their suffering and help them find joy, them you've found the way to live. The nagging feeling that we must each, individually, fix the world is masochistic arrogance. It's a shame that there's so much money to be made promoting it.
Have you considered seeing a therapist?
Nobody says we can't do something useful with our time, but spending one's sparetime working won't help.
I've heard the phrase "chop wood, carry water" here on HN a few times. It's not a bad concept and if you have the option then I'd suggest trying. It's far more rewarding than watching Netflix.
What an extreme understatement! (Graham Chapman: "It's a good idea, O Lord!") ...It is part of a tradition.
Anyway, you seem to be using that idea on an odd interpretation. Have you taken it to be, "live simply"?
That would be part of the recipe, but the actor should first (or parallely) learn to approach matters accordingly. And this is where the submitter shows difficulties.
This is why I strongly subscribe to said «spending one's sparetime working [for further money] won't help».
The OP mentions Netflix but also that hobbies feel like a waste of time. I'd go as far as to claim Netflix is a waste of time while a hobby that leaves you happier isn't.
Edit: for the record, actual wood chopping is a very rewarding task. It's a great way of relaxing one's mind after a stressful day at work.
Consider therapy. Other things might help as well. Sleep more. Rest more. Work less. Find time for some physical activity. But at least in my case, finding and addressing the root cause(s) was the key (followed by years of un-learning of some unhealthy mental patterns).
Two suggestions:
a) Read Matt Ridley's Rational optimist : This shows the arc of progress and provides strong arguments on how our future will be better
b) https://thomasjbevan.substack.com/p/all-news-is-bad-news : Basically asks you not to read the news at all, unless there is something that you can use a year from now.
Do you kn ow what feeding a declining asset is? It's not just buying such things as Cars then paying the sunk operational costs. It happens when you charge hourly and form business models with that feature.
First step is to find some way to package something that is zero costs in copying as a service.
Second step is to market that new product.
Third, mediation helps with anxiety
My biases:
1. Recovered ADHD sufferer 2. Former hourly gig person now working on a service style model of software business models