You really have to do your homework with the new AMD processor rebranding. It's super easy to think your getting the latest and greatest, only to end up with Vega 2 graphics like the 5000 series from years ago. I had to whiteboard it to keep it all straight myself.
When I look at AMD's new mobile lineup for 2023, and I didn't notice anything "new" in the U-series power profile (15 watts tdp). I'd be more than happy with a 6800U in linux friendly packaging.
Let me know if you think there's a specific 7000 series chip I've overlooked.
P.S: about the system 76 teaser itself, the static picture used as a "before and after" comparison for 60hz display vs 144 hz display is comedic gold.
You are absolutely right about that[1]. but strangely, on the 7640U the CPU core count drops from 8 to 6 in comparison with the 6800U. Presumably to make room for the new AI cores? I'm not sure that trade off is right for me.
The 7840HS is also designed for thin-and-light laptops, according to AMD, and it has 8 cores. It is a "35W" chip, but AMD says it is for ultrathins ("The Ultimate Ultrathin Processor"), and TDP is a relatively meaningless number these days.
That wccftech article is the only one I can find that lists a 7640U (not HS) processor. I think they combined some previous rumors with the actual announced specs by accident. I can't find any indication that the 7640U actually exists.
Honestly, I disagree. The 6800u has a base TDP of 15 watts - the 6800HS has a base TDP of 35w. The tradeoff in thermals/battery life is not worth the marginal performance increase, at least in my opinion.
Besides a slight bin the Ryzen U and H chips are largely the same, and you can easily limit power usage w/ a tool like https://github.com/FlyGoat/RyzenAdj to get similar power consumption. The advantage of having an H/HS laptop though is that their cooling solutions tend to be much better...
"Around the corner" is relative. Last year, the Ryzen 6000U was announced at CES and laptops shipping with them didn't start becoming available until around August. This year, AMD haven't even bothered to announce the U series at CES. I wouldn't expect any non-gaming Ryzen 7000 laptops to be announce before Computex (and ship before back-to-school season?). Anything earlier would probably be 7030 drop-ins, which are just refreshed/rebranded Rembrandt Ryzen 6000 chips anyway.
No, actually, they don't. They work with Clevo to make them, and Clevo can sell the hardware, but the firmware is very different, and possibly some of the hardware as well.
I run my 1440p screen at 1080p because my portable monitor is 1080p and I don't want to try and setup different scaling on different screens in X or move to Wayland. I'm happy enough.
Not sure why you're getting down voted. This seems like a valid point. I'd also note that if you are connected to a larger 1440p external display, 1080p on the smaller one keeps the dpi closer so you don't have to use different scaling settings.
It's not the resolutions, different resolutions is fine. It's the scaling. 1440p at 14" requires scaling because everything is too small (for me, anyway). But the portable monitor doesn't need scaling. I couldn't get it to work nicely without running two different X servers (one for each display).
I am pretty sure it's a limitation in X, the dpi setting is global, not per output. Wayland seems to have solved this, but it has other problems for me (forced vsync being the major one). So I just live in a lower resolution.
I don't really care, like some of the other posters in the thread, the lower resolution annoys me less than a 60hz refresh rate (laptop monitor is 144hz). Luckily X can handle different refresh rates for different outputs.
It is a 144Hz display, which makes it significantly more interesting than an average 1080p display. 60Hz just feels so stuttery these days.
But, I agree that a higher resolution would be nice, and if I'm being completely honest... I would want OLED. Tons of affordable OLED laptops have come to market over the past year.
Why does 144hz matter to you if you aren't playing games? This is not a gaming machine. You absolutely will not notice the difference for non-gaming tasks between 60hz to 80hz/100hz/120hz/144hz/244hz.
If you make absolutes like that, then everything I could respond with is automatically “wrong”, so that’s not a great conversation opener.
My smartphone is not a gaming monitor either, but 120Hz is hugely noticeable. My windows desktop is using a 144Hz monitor. I had a 120Hz MacBook Pro for awhile. I’m familiar with how I experience high refresh rate on different types of devices.
You may not care, and that’s fine, but what’s the point of asking why I care and then telling me in no certain terms that I won’t? And how do you know if I would be gaming on this or not? Valve has put immense effort into making Linux viable for gaming. If you’re instead trying to say the monitor’s response times suck, how do you know that already?
Yeah, I jump between 60hz, 120hz, and 240hz screens several times a day and while the difference in smoothness is very visible, if I'm not gaming I forget about it very quickly. Personally for work machines I find high density (preferably integer scaling friendly) preferable over extra frames.
I agree, I would say higher resolution screens always pay dividends in coding (crispness, and real estate). I've been downgrading a 144hz monitor to 100hz in gaming and haven't noticed too much difference. I think I'd have to jump to 244hz for my own perceptibility to notice the difference in games.
Seriously, if I could get a 21+ inch e-ink monitor even with a refresh rate on the order of 2 Hz, I'd still take it over a 144Hz @ 1080p. The added density and reduction of eye strain make it much more useful for textual work.
Trust me, there are people who notice the difference. After having tried a good 120Hz display for work I now go out of my way to not need to work on 60Hz displays. It’s more tactile, responsive and immediate. Smoother. Helps focus.
I absolutely notice if my monitor runs at 60hz for whatever reason instead of 144hz, even while just doing desktop tasks. Have you used a 144hz screen for any significant period of time?
Just go to a place where they sell iphones and compare the 60 Hz to the 120 Hz model. Open the settings menu and just scroll up and down. The difference is so very noticeable. I don't know why people try to claim that it's imperceptible, or that you can't tell the difference between a 1080p and 4K display.
I'm 100% fan of high refresh rate on smartphone, because smartphone UI is aimed for scrolling forever. Difference between 60Hz vs 120Hz is night and day.
So then I replaced a PC monitor from 60Hz LCD to 144Hz 4K LCD, I expected such difference before buy. After setup, I can find difference but don't find much difference like smartphone. I don't scroll so much on bigger screen PC, and maybe I'm too used to Windows' crappy scrolling. Anyway my mouse has classic wheel so non-smooth scroll is fine unlike touchscreen/trackpad case. Mouse cursor isn't smooth but it's just that. Finally I bought second 60Hz 4K LCD after that because it's cheaper, it's fine.
If you haven't used high refresh monitor. You probably won't notice the difference. But after you do it once, there is no way to go back. Just like high resolution monitors.
Mouse and scrolling feels so much more smoother on a high refresh rate monitor. To the point if windows messed up the refresh rate, you can instantly feel it.
I have screens running at both 60Hz and 120Hz right now.
For mousing, I can see it but I don't care. I even used my main screen at 30Hz for a while, and mousing was fine.
For scrolling, I scroll at the click rate of my mouse wheel, which is usually 6-20. With no smoothing applied, because I don't want it, scrolling looks the same on both screens.
It's really only games where I care.
So don't be so sure about how universal your own preferences are.
Then you are still able to know the difference since then.
You just don't care about it in that use case. (Neither do I. My second monitor is 60fps, and watching video or developing web page on it are totally fine to me)
The argument `people won't be able to tell the difference about 60fps and 120fps` only makes sense if you don't have experience about using a high refresh rate monitor.
I am a CJK user, and I can definitely say 4K at 200% is much more better than standard 1080p.
Standard 1080p only looks good for English alphabets. Complex Chinese characters like `國` looks blurry(or even s**tty) on that resolution. Reading chinese charaters on a hidpi monitor is really a much better experience.
What makes their stuff so great? I was customizing a gaming rig on their site the other day and it was wildly overpriced. I imagine you can match their specs for this laptop at cheaper prices.
You can. Its for people like me who want a linux laptop, but don't want to go through the hassle of installing it. While I could, I just didn't want to spend the time on it, plus setting up some drivers here and there. Thats the value prop. I got one for home use, (Oryx pro with Nvidia) 4 years ago. It worked well enough and had so few issues I got one for work.
The driver issues still exist if you don't do research ahead of time. There are laptops on the shelf today that still don't fully work out of the box with Ubuntu.
I don't know. I think most machines are pretty well supported. 4 years ago when I first bought one reading through the forums it seemed kinda hit or miss with wifi and sound. especially since my initial machine had nvidia graphics it seemed like a throw money at the problem and avoid headaches. If it was a desktop, I probably would have installed myself.
The machines I have from system76 are rebadged "Clevos" (I got dog hair in the fan and replaced the fan, which necessitated investigating. My AMD one with original fans is NL50NU)
https://www.clevo.com.tw/
The POPOS full disc encryption out of the box was another selling point. I'm not sure thats easy to set up on on a new install.
The support is good, when I had issues going up a major version (I think steam installed something newer than what it was expecting) and I couldn't figure how to get the OS to upgrade despite tons of command line foo, I put a ticket and they pointed me in the right direction.
You'd be surprised by how many software engineers balk at the idea of installing an OS from scratch.
> In general, how serious are these driver compatibility concerns for modern laptop hardware?
If you're not using anything Nvidia related, the process should be smooth as butter. Any Intel or AMD chipset from the past 5-7 years should be well supported by now.
The hassle is the relentless debugging and glitchiness after slapping Linux on a Windows computer. System integration is a thing, and it's hopeless for a random user with zero access to firmware and chip/board documentation.
I bought a high end serval a couple years ago. I think they stopped producing that line. We never got any firmware updates to address battery life, wifi, sound, bluetooth, trackpad issues. I think they perhaps realized the fu'd, and that product line might have represented a sunk cost for them. I can't blame them if thats the case from a buisness pov, but as a consumer, I'll shop elsewhere for my next 'it just works' linux laptop. Many more options now than a handful of years ago.
When I installed Linux on my first PC that was an operation that involved literal days of downloads and a screwdriver. Now it takes 30 minutes and I do it 3-4 times a year at least.
> Its for people like me who want a linux laptop, but don't want to go through the hassle of installing it.
For me, buying from an upstream-oriented Linux hardware vendor is about getting an assurance that on any distro newer than the hardware, everything will just work. I always plan to perform an installation because I have distro preferences.
With System76, a stable, fast, open-source BIOS is also part of the value proposition.
Personally, I'd never get an NVIDIA laptop again, 'supported' or not. At the end of the day, NVIDIA's kernel module will constrain what kernel versions you can use regardless of what any downstream vendor does. That means possible version conflicts with other out-of-tree kernel modules that I actually want, like ZoL.
you are paying for convenience, support the project, and have system that is tested for the ground up and configured by the manufacturer, and branding.
I don't feel that is so great, some other laptops and pc in the linux ecosystem are great also, but this is their monetization scheme, high price for niche products.
I don't think they can sell for lower price and compete whit companies who doesn't expend the money in developing the distribution, wm, etc.
Wildly overpriced compared to building it yourself or compared to other PC building companies?
I purchased a Thelio Mira awhile back and have been happier with it than any other PC/laptop I've owned before.
The big value add that System76 is having a Linux desktop that is guaranteed to just work out of the box the same way you would expect and Apple machine to work out of the box. In fact, I've probably had less issues with this machine out of the box than any new macbooks I've had in the past few years.
I've built plenty of my own PCs before and run linux as my primary desktop multiple times, and my Thelio is a wildly better experience than in the past. The build quality is excellent and for the first time I can really use Linux as my primary desktop with no problems.
Building a PC yourself is always going to be cheaper, and for many people that's the preferred path anyway. The point I'm at in my life I would much rather pay a premium to not have to worry about that at all (especially when it comes to hardware on linux).
If anyone is look for a "just works" linux PC, I've found system76 to be a great experience.
Wildly overpriced compared to building it yourself or compared to other PC building companies?
Both actually, the markup is extremely high on their stuff if you try to get a gaming rig from them.
I built all my PCs since I was 13, and I can say it's not as involved as people think. You really kinda screw in the motherboard, pop in a cpu, and a graphics card/ssd (or if you have no need for a discrete GPU and you get one of those CPUs with decent integrated graphics, you are basically only popping in a CPU). There is like two wires that go from your PSU to mobo at best. The thing is pc hardware prices are already absurd since Covid, so when you add in this extra markup on labor, you are just getting something that's way beyond normal prices. You might look at a $1600 price tag and scoff at it as nothing, but its really a $800 dollar machine with all this extra stuff added or marked up. I've seen people look at $2000 pre built machines and just think they are crazy for buying at that price. It's like ... I don't even think its a money thing, it's like a scammy thing. Imagine if I show up and sell you a iPhone 10 at iphone 14 prices. It's the principle of the matter.
You know, there are some afternoons where I don't know what to do with myself. Setting up/building a PC is an hour for me. If it's new to you, it might be an afternoons worth of work. It's not an endless multi day fiasco, I promise.
They spend a lot of that money supporting upstream contributions, maintaining a first-class Linux experience, providing real support, and otherwise putting their money where their mouth is.
Compare to almost literally any other laptop, where uttering the word "linux" gets you nothing more than a voided warranty and a strong YOYOMF, and some fraction of customers will see value in System76's approach.
Pixel for pixel, watt for watt, you could do better elsewhere. But only with a Windows preload and jumping through hoops if you ever have a hardware failure and have to reinstall the preload to run some awful diagnostics before getting an RMA, for instance. Awful experiences like that really take away from the "value" of a cheaper machine, if your time is worth money, as I suspect it is.
Guys, let's not go overboard with the hyperbole. I fully accept you guys wanting to support their PopOS endeavor, I totally get it. But let's not all act like we're all CEOs of megabillion dollar companies with boardroom meetings 24/7 that we can't be bothered to fiddle with some common computer issues.
You can't get MacOS any other way reliably. I'm pretty sure you can get PopOS for free. Plus Apple makes pretty unique hardware. This is a totally unfair comparison.
Again, System76 doesn't have a price yet for their Ryzen 7 laptop so I can't say if this Lenovo is overpriced in comparison. Maybe, maybe not, but given this Lenovo price, I'm pretty sure System76 ain't going below $2000.
Got a System76 laptop last year because I was sick of Windows and Mac nonsense (if my OS is going to suck, I want it to suck on my terms). The last time I tried desktop Linux was over ten years prior and I was prepared for a hell of obscure configuration and instability, but pleasantly it all Just Works. If you want a full-fledged Linux-based laptop that works out-of-the-box, I can recommend it.
No, that would actually be less correct and less clear.
"System76 brings back AMD-only laptop" would be an extremely clear way to phrase the title. I'm not even sure the "only" is even that helpful; it could probably just be "AMD laptop".
No... it's less clear too. The verb is never isolated from the rest of the sentence by a comma, but a list of nouns will be isolated by commas, even if the conjunction is missing for brevity in a title. Separating "returns" like that makes it appear even more to be a noun, which is the thing that the original comment was confused by. Correct interpretation of the title relies on the reader realizing that it is a verb in this context, and the comma does not help with that.
Given the ongoing mess with the AMD 7900 XTX GPU vapor chambers, I initially interpreted the title to mean there was some problem with AMD laptops, so System76 was offering returns only for those laptops with AMD chips. That is not the case.
I think clear communication is important, and I initially tried to avoid digging into grammar until they doubled down on a weird use of a comma.
There are two verbs in your example, so it’s simply not a relevant example since the second verb is forming a separate sentence. It’s just connected with a comma in order to inform the reader that it is reusing the context of the previous sentence. In this specific example, that really makes it a broken sentence fragment, but it is often acceptable if it is being done poetically, which it arguably is there.
I phrased my previous comment carefully. The verb is never isolated from the rest of the sentence by a comma. “Posts” is the complete sentence; it just has an implicit subject and object.
It’s possible there are nuanced counterexamples somewhere that I’m somehow overlooking, but none of them are relevant to whether putting a comma between “laptop” and “returns” would make the title clearer.
But, if you’d like to try again with only a single verb…
That rule of thumb doesn’t really contradict anything I’ve said, and a rule of thumb is not to be relied upon anyways. If we want to consider the rule of thumb, just extend the sentence. If the pause would be there, then it would also be there even if the sentence were longer. “System76 AMD-Only Laptop Returns to Market”. I certainly wouldn’t pause between “laptop” and “returns”. But again, a rule of thumb is a general guideline, and it will be wrong in many cases.
The real, specific rules that are listed after also don’t contradict anything I’ve said, as far as I can see. Can you please point to the specific rule on that page that says a comma would be useful here?
A comma does not fix this title.
I’m not claiming to be the single best person in the world at English grammar, but I have tried my best to learn a thing or two about it over the years. I have also tried to clearly explain the relevant grammar to the best of my ability. I have apparently failed to explain it well enough, so I’m done here, since trying more won’t make a difference for such an irrelevant diversion from the main topic.
In headlinese, your sentence would be short for "Person holds excessively strict ideas about English grammar and English posts". Not a great example to make your point.
I ignored your point… about adding a random comma to preserve the original title’s word choice? I’m confused how that’s relevant. If the comma makes things less clear to the majority of readers, then it would not be an improvement.
Based on the distribution of downvotes and upvotes between your original comment and my original comment (which is at +13), I think most people on this post overwhelmingly agreed with me, for whatever that is worth. Good communication requires figuring out what works for most people, not just one person, and short of running some focus group testing, the vote distribution is the best available proxy for that here, in my opinion.
> It could be improved.
Communication can always be improved, and I’m always trying. I agree there is still room for improvement. I’m sorry if it isn’t good enough yet.
> Another resolution that is often referred to as 2K is 2560 × 1440 (1440p) however that is a common mistake in marketing[12] and is called QHD by the DCI.
It is a mistake to refer to 2560x1440 as 2K.
People calling 1080p "2K" is a pet peeve of mine. 2.5K is a more appropriate name for 2560x1440, if you want to use that naming convention, but I think just saying 1440p is simpler.
Been a Linux user for 20+ years. Pretty sick that we have companies like this selling Linux laptops with Coreboot. Man, that was a wild dream back in the day.
I'm using a Macbook personally, but this stuff is so sick. To be honest, I never really imagined the future as using Windows + Linux + MacOS without thinking that much about the platform, but about the only thing that sticks out to me is that the command line on Windows is rubbish. Otherwise, it feels very naturally normal to me as I switch between platforms. The web has really changed things.
Only thing that surprises me are the screens. I thought the high res screens like in the Macbook were commonplace now.
Hard no from many people including myself. It will be a cold day in hell before I give Microsoft any more of my money or personal information after the abuses they've done to me, my information, and my purchases.
The chassis looks great and is made of magnesium - if it weren't for the tenkey I would be seriously considering this. A smaller thinkpad-esque machine would probably be really popular.
Despite the niche love for them on a personal level corporate fleet buyers would still buy DTSN screens if they were $5 cheaper per unit than the regular ones because they are that damn fickle.
That is to say their priorities are different.
Non-programmers are not really fond of it, unlike you and me. I actually consider it a ThinkPad underutilized selling point but it takes time to master navigation with the pointer stick and sometimes it gets in the way when you need to type fast.
I have a System76 galp5. It's fairly thin and lightweight. I have mixed feelings about it. Linux support is good. But Windows support is pretty bad. All available drivers are here: https://github.com/system76/windows-drivers but even after installing everything in that repo listed under galp5, I still have a ton of issues including laptop not going to sleep when lid is closed, touchpad occasionally not working until I toggle it on/off from settings, etc. Getting Windows working from Pop OS using Virtual Box was also a massive, fragile headache. I would get it working, but then sometimes when using Visual Studio from inside virtual box it would freeze and the VM would be permanently bricked unless I had previously saved a snapshot.
All this to say that if you care about Linux and only Linux, System76 could be a good choice. But if you need to use Windows at all, I would steer clear of S76 until their Windows support is a little better (also YMMV - I've just had so many issues with Windows on a galp5, but that might not be the case with other models).
> But it really underscores the point that Linux and Windows hardware really are different.
You mean it underscores the fact that Windows actually has terrible hardware support and the only reason it runs on anything is because OEMs put in work...
"Runs" is in the eye of the beholder. It runs, but very often with small glitches here and there, especially where hardware and software meet (e.g. suspend and resume.) Even Frameworks manages to screw it up, in no small part because they don't support Linux, only Windows. And AFICT, its _very_ hard to fully support both simultaneously.
This is why I only buy System76. I've considered Tux etc and may also. But so far System76 has been the best for me.
I have one (the previous one with AMD Ryzen 5700u). I've been using it for work the last 6 months coming from an 2015 macbook. Its been great for developing. The battery lasts pretty well (forgetting my power supply when working from home I got almost 7 hours), its fast (I've done some genetics blast runs which take hours, where those extra cores really help). Its pretty quiet too (you can hear the fan when it spins up, but its very reasonable). Returning to a Mat screen has been nice.
I really like AMD on the notebook. Compared to my 4 year old Oryx pro (intel 8th gen), which had poor battery life (esp when using the Nvidia graphics) and required a reboot initially if I wanted to switch to intel graphics. This one is much nicer, but it won't game nearly as well as one with dedicated graphics.
The first thing I see is a 16x9 screen, think "pass", and close the page. There have to be other LCD panel makers out there. Either their customers don't care and/or the company doesn't care to make a better laptop.
that's the same for me. I tend to have "two" windows open at most times and that works well for me on my 15" laptop (ancient by most HN standards). I've looked at the ultrawide and 4:3 screens and I'm good with the current "standard" form factor when I can't get to my 3 monitor setup at home.
Not OP but I guess 4:3 or 3:2. Some people prefer those to widescreens, having more vertical space is better
MS Surface Books are 3:2 for example (2256 x 1504 on 13,5" / 2496 x 1664 on 15"), or some Thinkpad X1 models are 4:3 (probably just the Fold?). The Framework laptop is also 3:2 (2256 x 1504 on 13,5")
Any thoughts on the LG DualUp [0]? It looks quite interesting for portrait mode work, but I've held off from purchasing due to the... unusual aspect ratio and the fact that it'd be rather difficult to use for watching video content.
It looks really interesting! I found using a different aspect ratio (5:4 in my recent case) changes how I view and interact with the computer. It just feels refreshing to use something different after years of 16:9 and 16:10. Your window layout might be different, which may or may not benefit your workflow.
I agree video content might look a little strange unless it was kept on either the top or bottom, and not full screened.
I can't imagine it makes the most sense unless you got two of them side-by-side--though that would depend on the nature of your work. I use a 43" 4k 16:9 monitor and don't use the full height, leaving part of the top and bottom edges empty. Moving your eyes/head that much vertically just doesn't seem very natural or ergonomic.
16:9 demands true full-screen for viewing 16:9 content. 16:10 leaves a little room for toolbars if you just want to maximize a window and look at something.
There's hope that a 4k screen option might exist, but anything between 1080p and 4k will not look good on Linux at this size. Without fractional scaling or funny supersampling tricks, Linux only really looks good at 100% and 200% scaling.
Maybe in time that will change, but that's just how Linux is for now.
Fractional scaling is a 99% solved problem at least on KDE, even with Wayland it seems to work fine for me. Just a few apps are blurry which I don't use.
...the GNOME/Apple hacky way, that is rendering at an integer multiple and then downscaling as needed. It works, but it's not optimal, and won't ever be as sharp as it could be.
The Gnome/Apple way is also apps can opt out when they do their own scaling, such as browsers, and can just stream the output directly at 1:1.
The fix, unfortunately, is blame the hardware. Desktop monitors that don't approach standard DPIs shouldn't be still produced in the 2020s, 24" 1080p and 24" 4k are perfectly common and optimal for their intended uses.
And yes, I think 27" 1440p shouldn't exist... it isn't an integer multiple of 1080p (thus a poorly handled edge case of scaling rasterized media resources, ie, videos), but also, if you wish to maintain proper intended DPI scaling for ye average asset, 1440p needs to be 32".
Yah I don't get why these laptop manufactures keep shipping garbage screens. I got a 3:2 2160 x 1440, IPS screen on a $200 tablet a few months ago. My laptop has a 16:9 that looks worse, and has lower resolution despite the machine costing 6x as much.
So, please, its hard to call your product "premium" if its screen is worse than a bottom of the barrel tablet.
Its a bit weak on the CPU/RAM front, but for what i'm using it for (ebooks, netflix, and random PCish tasks (largly RDP) when i'm to lazy to get out of bed and grab the laptop) its not a bad device except for the one "issue" which is that it doesn't have a headphone jack. Something I would have probably returned it for had I paid closer to MSRP on it. Its a reasonable upgrade to the chewi windows tablet I was using before, which also has a weak cpu (but more ram) and a screen that isn't as nice.
>Yah I don't get why these laptop manufactures keep shipping garbage screens.
Because they're cheaper.
>My laptop has a 16:9 that looks worse, and has lower resolution despite the machine costing 6x as much.
Right, so your laptop mfgr spent less money on the screen, charged more money, and got a higher profit margin -> win! This lets their execs get bigger bonuses so they can buy better yachts. What's not to like here?
But let's assume you really do need a numpad for your work or whatever. Wouldn't you rather have one that was... full sized? And wouldn't you rather the keyboard be centered on the laptop, so you can actually use it on a lap?
> Wouldn't you rather have one that was... full sized?
Yes, I would. But having a numpad is absolutely better than not having a numpad.
> wouldn't you rather the keyboard be centered on the laptop, so you can actually use it on a lap?
I can use my laptop on my lap when the keyboard is not centered. Do you have a disability (there's nothing wrong with having one) which prevents you from doing so?
No, I wouldn't rather suffer the loss of a numpad just to have the keyboard centered. Having the keyboard centered does not improve my usability in any way whatsoever. Removing the touchpad would, however. Disabling the touchpad is the first thing I do; I use keyboard navigation around things instead. It's faster and far less clumsy.
I have to do a lot of calculation on the fly. When I'm on a business call and someone gives me up-to-date metrics I frequently have to translate that into numbers that make sense for my business. (e.g. If I'm on the phone with a vendor and someone tells me their unit price is $1.44, I need to add that to my COGS, subtract the current unit price, and multiply by monthly or annual capacity to figure out how that's going to affect costs.) I can do this by touch while I'm talking in 2 - 3 seconds if I have a numpad. If I don't, I need both hands and roughly twice the time per calculation and I need to double-check I typed things right because the numbers aren't aligned quite the same way on each keyboard I use. It becomes a noticeable drag on productivity when I'm performing more complex ad hoc calculations for reports or presentations. I used a macbook for years and won't do it anymore. Linux on a computer with a numpad is the only way for me to go now.
IP addresses and IDs. Very satisfying to quickly bang out multiple numeric strings without error. I don't do this at work as much as I used to, so sometimes I switch to a TLK keyboard for more desk space.
From a hardware side things are spec'd fine. The issue is on the firmware/ company side. I no longer have confidence in the company to support their products. A couple of qol firmware updates could have fixed that.
Same for me. The Galago Pro (galp5) is quite ok but the firmware has bugs and they are not fixing them. Over the last 2 years I have had the fan running constantly when a USB-C device was connected, the fan going into full turbo mode over night, the screen started to flicker after wakeup on battery and some other issues. And battery life is beyond terrible.
After two years of struggle I have thrown the towel and got a used Macbook for the same price. I am starting to question their engineering priorities. Instead of developing new desktop environments I think they should make sure their devices are rock solid and work perfectly with Linux. That's their USP and they are not delivering on that promise.
Not the state of the art as of CES announcements, but I'd happily get a laptop with one of these if I needed a laptop right now.
It's good System76 is offering such an option, because it makes them a candidate.
I would not currently consider a laptop that's based on Intel or NVIDIA hardware, due to vastly inferior performance/watt and lack of open documentation, respectively.
The Ryzen 7000 mobile lineup includes chips based on Zen4, Zen 3+, Zen 3, and even Zen 2 cpu cores, and using RDNA3, RDNA2, and even Vega graphics! An Acer with a Ryzen 7000 series chip could easily have the same or older cpu core or graphics arch, as the Zen 3+ and RDNA2 in Ryzen 6800U.
I mean, I like Linux and am a bit of an ideologue... I want System76 to succeed and want to buy a laptop from them but I also like using nice hardware.
I bought one less than a year ago. I took the budget for a macbook and spent it maxing out a system 76 laptop. Double the memory, over double the storage, ample USB ports, not really sure what's subpar about what I'm using. Best laptop I've ever had by far. Regarding looks, I don't know or care.
Compared to a MacBook I’m sure your battery life is meager. And the memory bandwidth (which may not matter at all for your use cases) will be minuscule compared to Apple Silicon. But those are general non-MacBook issues.
they're charging more, but I always assumed that's because they're a smaller company based in the US paying US wages. Also a while back they mentioned that they wanted to build everything here in the US. They also support linux, coreboot, etc. I think there are people out there willing to spend money to support something they care about.
If they made a US-built laptop with CoreBoot, a decent keyboard and a 4K OLED screen I'd buy it in a second. Would probably be willing to spend $2500 on it.
I've bought a couple of laptops from System76. They charge outrageous prices and and shipping costs for even the smallest part; other than that, getting parts for their rebadged Clevo machines can be a bit challenging because you often have to order from China, so it takes a while.
This is what kills me. At work, they only swear by HP for some reason. So, I've got a shitty Elitebook that cost, after RAM and SSD upgrades, within 100 euros of a same-size MBP with same RAM and SSD.
But the build quality is uniformly worse. And the screen... it's an atrocity. You don't have to compare it to an MBP (I only have an old 2013 one, and it still wipes the floor with it). Even compared to an older XPS (7th gen intel), it's horrible.
since 13months ago, HP sells a elite book G9 for 2k, which have the best combo configuration at, gasp, wallmart for 800... eigth hundred dollars.
same cpu, but PRO version. metal and plastic body. scissor waterproof keyboard. usb c charging (system76 is barrel), 2x sodimm ram slots (system76 is soldered, note thay amd zen3+ pro mighty allow ECC ram in a laptop for the first time! so i want slots), the battery have 18Wh less, but it is also 20pct ligther. and all hardware is fully supported with 5.8+ kernel.
I always try to buy from linux-first-vendors, but I still deal with a librem13 that have sevral keys fail on their keyboard and support is ghosting me. even had to super-glue the hinge latelly. so awful :(
800 seems cheap for an elitebook. Is that the 8x0 model?
I have the older g8. It worked perfectly out of the box on linux since new. Recently, windows started being able to use the webcam, too.
But beware the screen. It's absurdly bad. I'd say it's okish for $800. For 2000, it's a bad joke. Some models only have 6-bit screens (at least those have an excuse for being horrible).
The fan is sometimes noisy, too. It seems like it's somewhat off-balance, ever since it was new.
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[ 4.9 ms ] story [ 275 ms ] threadOh and then be ready for months of firmware and kernel patches until the chip is actually usable as a daily driver on Linux.
Getting a 6000 series CPU now that the kinks have been ironed out is not a bad idea.
When I look at AMD's new mobile lineup for 2023, and I didn't notice anything "new" in the U-series power profile (15 watts tdp). I'd be more than happy with a 6800U in linux friendly packaging.
Let me know if you think there's a specific 7000 series chip I've overlooked.
P.S: about the system 76 teaser itself, the static picture used as a "before and after" comparison for 60hz display vs 144 hz display is comedic gold.
The 7040 series, which is Zen 4 & RDNA 3 (so not a Rembrandt refresh) should be available for "thin and light" laptops.
[1]: https://wccftech.com/amd-debuts-ryzen-7045-dragon-range-enth...
That wccftech article is the only one I can find that lists a 7640U (not HS) processor. I think they combined some previous rumors with the actual announced specs by accident. I can't find any indication that the 7640U actually exists.
see e.g. cassidyjames at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17039414
There were a couple of great threads on Twitter, but it looks like Jeremy Soller isn't on anymore. (https://twitter.com/c4software/status/1322954098711400449 is one guy realizing too late that they're not the same, that likely precipitated https://mobile.twitter.com/jeremy_soller/status/132295496454... still in Google cache saying "A reminder that you shouldn't buy Clevo's and expect them to work like System76's"
I am pretty sure it's a limitation in X, the dpi setting is global, not per output. Wayland seems to have solved this, but it has other problems for me (forced vsync being the major one). So I just live in a lower resolution.
I don't really care, like some of the other posters in the thread, the lower resolution annoys me less than a 60hz refresh rate (laptop monitor is 144hz). Luckily X can handle different refresh rates for different outputs.
I would be satisfied with a taller 1920x1200 display but maybe you still wouldn't be.
> Display 15.6″ 1920×1080 FHD, Matte Finish, 144 Hz
But, I agree that a higher resolution would be nice, and if I'm being completely honest... I would want OLED. Tons of affordable OLED laptops have come to market over the past year.
If you make absolutes like that, then everything I could respond with is automatically “wrong”, so that’s not a great conversation opener.
My smartphone is not a gaming monitor either, but 120Hz is hugely noticeable. My windows desktop is using a 144Hz monitor. I had a 120Hz MacBook Pro for awhile. I’m familiar with how I experience high refresh rate on different types of devices.
You may not care, and that’s fine, but what’s the point of asking why I care and then telling me in no certain terms that I won’t? And how do you know if I would be gaming on this or not? Valve has put immense effort into making Linux viable for gaming. If you’re instead trying to say the monitor’s response times suck, how do you know that already?
So then I replaced a PC monitor from 60Hz LCD to 144Hz 4K LCD, I expected such difference before buy. After setup, I can find difference but don't find much difference like smartphone. I don't scroll so much on bigger screen PC, and maybe I'm too used to Windows' crappy scrolling. Anyway my mouse has classic wheel so non-smooth scroll is fine unlike touchscreen/trackpad case. Mouse cursor isn't smooth but it's just that. Finally I bought second 60Hz 4K LCD after that because it's cheaper, it's fine.
Mouse and scrolling feels so much more smoother on a high refresh rate monitor. To the point if windows messed up the refresh rate, you can instantly feel it.
For mousing, I can see it but I don't care. I even used my main screen at 30Hz for a while, and mousing was fine.
For scrolling, I scroll at the click rate of my mouse wheel, which is usually 6-20. With no smoothing applied, because I don't want it, scrolling looks the same on both screens.
It's really only games where I care.
So don't be so sure about how universal your own preferences are.
Then you are still able to know the difference since then.
You just don't care about it in that use case. (Neither do I. My second monitor is 60fps, and watching video or developing web page on it are totally fine to me)
The argument `people won't be able to tell the difference about 60fps and 120fps` only makes sense if you don't have experience about using a high refresh rate monitor.
Unless "go back" was "not know there is a difference, unrelated to whether you care"?
Because in the comparison to high resolution, I would never want to go back to 1080p. But refresh rate is whatever to me outside of games.
Standard 1080p only looks good for English alphabets. Complex Chinese characters like `國` looks blurry(or even s**tty) on that resolution. Reading chinese charaters on a hidpi monitor is really a much better experience.
In general, how serious are these driver compatibility concerns for modern laptop hardware?
The machines I have from system76 are rebadged "Clevos" (I got dog hair in the fan and replaced the fan, which necessitated investigating. My AMD one with original fans is NL50NU) https://www.clevo.com.tw/
The POPOS full disc encryption out of the box was another selling point. I'm not sure thats easy to set up on on a new install.
The support is good, when I had issues going up a major version (I think steam installed something newer than what it was expecting) and I couldn't figure how to get the OS to upgrade despite tons of command line foo, I put a ticket and they pointed me in the right direction.
> In general, how serious are these driver compatibility concerns for modern laptop hardware?
If you're not using anything Nvidia related, the process should be smooth as butter. Any Intel or AMD chipset from the past 5-7 years should be well supported by now.
Also, the support and open firmware.
My system 76 firm ware feels like abandon ware
For me, buying from an upstream-oriented Linux hardware vendor is about getting an assurance that on any distro newer than the hardware, everything will just work. I always plan to perform an installation because I have distro preferences.
With System76, a stable, fast, open-source BIOS is also part of the value proposition.
Personally, I'd never get an NVIDIA laptop again, 'supported' or not. At the end of the day, NVIDIA's kernel module will constrain what kernel versions you can use regardless of what any downstream vendor does. That means possible version conflicts with other out-of-tree kernel modules that I actually want, like ZoL.
And what project would that be?
I purchased a Thelio Mira awhile back and have been happier with it than any other PC/laptop I've owned before.
The big value add that System76 is having a Linux desktop that is guaranteed to just work out of the box the same way you would expect and Apple machine to work out of the box. In fact, I've probably had less issues with this machine out of the box than any new macbooks I've had in the past few years.
I've built plenty of my own PCs before and run linux as my primary desktop multiple times, and my Thelio is a wildly better experience than in the past. The build quality is excellent and for the first time I can really use Linux as my primary desktop with no problems.
Building a PC yourself is always going to be cheaper, and for many people that's the preferred path anyway. The point I'm at in my life I would much rather pay a premium to not have to worry about that at all (especially when it comes to hardware on linux).
If anyone is look for a "just works" linux PC, I've found system76 to be a great experience.
Both actually, the markup is extremely high on their stuff if you try to get a gaming rig from them.
I built all my PCs since I was 13, and I can say it's not as involved as people think. You really kinda screw in the motherboard, pop in a cpu, and a graphics card/ssd (or if you have no need for a discrete GPU and you get one of those CPUs with decent integrated graphics, you are basically only popping in a CPU). There is like two wires that go from your PSU to mobo at best. The thing is pc hardware prices are already absurd since Covid, so when you add in this extra markup on labor, you are just getting something that's way beyond normal prices. You might look at a $1600 price tag and scoff at it as nothing, but its really a $800 dollar machine with all this extra stuff added or marked up. I've seen people look at $2000 pre built machines and just think they are crazy for buying at that price. It's like ... I don't even think its a money thing, it's like a scammy thing. Imagine if I show up and sell you a iPhone 10 at iphone 14 prices. It's the principle of the matter.
You know, there are some afternoons where I don't know what to do with myself. Setting up/building a PC is an hour for me. If it's new to you, it might be an afternoons worth of work. It's not an endless multi day fiasco, I promise.
Compare to almost literally any other laptop, where uttering the word "linux" gets you nothing more than a voided warranty and a strong YOYOMF, and some fraction of customers will see value in System76's approach.
Pixel for pixel, watt for watt, you could do better elsewhere. But only with a Windows preload and jumping through hoops if you ever have a hardware failure and have to reinstall the preload to run some awful diagnostics before getting an RMA, for instance. Awful experiences like that really take away from the "value" of a cheaper machine, if your time is worth money, as I suspect it is.
NVIDIA + Coreboot is not a linux-first experience by any stretch of the imagination. Unless you want to be stuck on POP OS for forever.
Try customizing an Apple product. It's also wildly overpriced.
System76 provides top-tier support. That alone is expensive.
Compare to this instead:
https://www.lenovo.com/au/en/p/laptops/yoga/yoga-2-in-1-seri...
They also have a list of which of their laptops they tested with Linux:
https://support.lenovo.com/pl/en/solutions/pd031426
Again, System76 doesn't have a price yet for their Ryzen 7 laptop so I can't say if this Lenovo is overpriced in comparison. Maybe, maybe not, but given this Lenovo price, I'm pretty sure System76 ain't going below $2000.
But for those of you in EU and Australia, this is a nice option. I've considered importing it.
I read it to be about people who bought AMD-only laptops from System76, needing to return them to System76 for some reason.
E.g. "System76 AMD-Only Laptop, Returns"
"System76 brings back AMD-only laptop" would be an extremely clear way to phrase the title. I'm not even sure the "only" is even that helpful; it could probably just be "AMD laptop".
Given the ongoing mess with the AMD 7900 XTX GPU vapor chambers, I initially interpreted the title to mean there was some problem with AMD laptops, so System76 was offering returns only for those laptops with AMD chips. That is not the case.
There are two verbs in your example, so it’s simply not a relevant example since the second verb is forming a separate sentence. It’s just connected with a comma in order to inform the reader that it is reusing the context of the previous sentence. In this specific example, that really makes it a broken sentence fragment, but it is often acceptable if it is being done poetically, which it arguably is there.
I phrased my previous comment carefully. The verb is never isolated from the rest of the sentence by a comma. “Posts” is the complete sentence; it just has an implicit subject and object.
It’s possible there are nuanced counterexamples somewhere that I’m somehow overlooking, but none of them are relevant to whether putting a comma between “laptop” and “returns” would make the title clearer.
But, if you’d like to try again with only a single verb…
You're going to upset people if you don't consider their opinions.
--
"Rule of thumb: a comma indicates a pause in speech." [1]
[1] https://site.uit.no/english/punctuation/rules-for-comma-usag...
The real, specific rules that are listed after also don’t contradict anything I’ve said, as far as I can see. Can you please point to the specific rule on that page that says a comma would be useful here?
A comma does not fix this title.
I’m not claiming to be the single best person in the world at English grammar, but I have tried my best to learn a thing or two about it over the years. I have also tried to clearly explain the relevant grammar to the best of my ability. I have apparently failed to explain it well enough, so I’m done here, since trying more won’t make a difference for such an irrelevant diversion from the main topic.
Next: Read the original title (including the additional comma) out loud, pausing slightly in place of the comma.
--
Which makes _more_ sense?
Too nuanced and pedantic, understood.
Take a step back and think about your style of communication.
It could be improved.
Based on the distribution of downvotes and upvotes between your original comment and my original comment (which is at +13), I think most people on this post overwhelmingly agreed with me, for whatever that is worth. Good communication requires figuring out what works for most people, not just one person, and short of running some focus group testing, the vote distribution is the best available proxy for that here, in my opinion.
> It could be improved.
Communication can always be improved, and I’m always trying. I agree there is still room for improvement. I’m sorry if it isn’t good enough yet.
I thought there were factory problems, a page with information about product returns, and possibly a story around that.
Says that the DCI definition of 2K is 2048x1080, and that 2560x1440 should be called QHD or WQHD. (Quad = 4x, HD = 1280x720).
And this aligns with the usage I am accustomed to.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2K_resolution
> Another resolution that is often referred to as 2K is 2560 × 1440 (1440p) however that is a common mistake in marketing[12] and is called QHD by the DCI.
It is a mistake to refer to 2560x1440 as 2K.
People calling 1080p "2K" is a pet peeve of mine. 2.5K is a more appropriate name for 2560x1440, if you want to use that naming convention, but I think just saying 1440p is simpler.
Can’t edit now, but clearly I meant to say 1440p in this sentence, not 1080p.
I'm using a Macbook personally, but this stuff is so sick. To be honest, I never really imagined the future as using Windows + Linux + MacOS without thinking that much about the platform, but about the only thing that sticks out to me is that the command line on Windows is rubbish. Otherwise, it feels very naturally normal to me as I switch between platforms. The web has really changed things.
Only thing that surprises me are the screens. I thought the high res screens like in the Macbook were commonplace now.
I like yori when in a DOS mood.
Hard no from many people including myself. It will be a cold day in hell before I give Microsoft any more of my money or personal information after the abuses they've done to me, my information, and my purchases.
System76 if you here can you switch chassis :) ?
All this to say that if you care about Linux and only Linux, System76 could be a good choice. But if you need to use Windows at all, I would steer clear of S76 until their Windows support is a little better (also YMMV - I've just had so many issues with Windows on a galp5, but that might not be the case with other models).
But it really underscores the point that Linux and Windows hardware really are different.
You mean it underscores the fact that Windows actually has terrible hardware support and the only reason it runs on anything is because OEMs put in work...
Linux runs on most Windows hardware OOTB.
"Runs" is in the eye of the beholder. It runs, but very often with small glitches here and there, especially where hardware and software meet (e.g. suspend and resume.) Even Frameworks manages to screw it up, in no small part because they don't support Linux, only Windows. And AFICT, its _very_ hard to fully support both simultaneously.
This is why I only buy System76. I've considered Tux etc and may also. But so far System76 has been the best for me.
I really like AMD on the notebook. Compared to my 4 year old Oryx pro (intel 8th gen), which had poor battery life (esp when using the Nvidia graphics) and required a reboot initially if I wanted to switch to intel graphics. This one is much nicer, but it won't game nearly as well as one with dedicated graphics.
I like 16x9. What do you want instead?
MS Surface Books are 3:2 for example (2256 x 1504 on 13,5" / 2496 x 1664 on 15"), or some Thinkpad X1 models are 4:3 (probably just the Fold?). The Framework laptop is also 3:2 (2256 x 1504 on 13,5")
On the other hand, I still prefer 16:10 over 16:9 for modern displays.
[0]: https://www.lg.com/uk/monitors/lg-28mq780-b
I agree video content might look a little strange unless it was kept on either the top or bottom, and not full screened.
Maybe in time that will change, but that's just how Linux is for now.
The fix, unfortunately, is blame the hardware. Desktop monitors that don't approach standard DPIs shouldn't be still produced in the 2020s, 24" 1080p and 24" 4k are perfectly common and optimal for their intended uses.
And yes, I think 27" 1440p shouldn't exist... it isn't an integer multiple of 1080p (thus a poorly handled edge case of scaling rasterized media resources, ie, videos), but also, if you wish to maintain proper intended DPI scaling for ye average asset, 1440p needs to be 32".
So, please, its hard to call your product "premium" if its screen is worse than a bottom of the barrel tablet.
it was on sale for $199, or $299 with the keyboard.
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/hp-11-tablet-intel-pentium-4gb-...
But only that second link is still in stock.
Its a bit weak on the CPU/RAM front, but for what i'm using it for (ebooks, netflix, and random PCish tasks (largly RDP) when i'm to lazy to get out of bed and grab the laptop) its not a bad device except for the one "issue" which is that it doesn't have a headphone jack. Something I would have probably returned it for had I paid closer to MSRP on it. Its a reasonable upgrade to the chewi windows tablet I was using before, which also has a weak cpu (but more ram) and a screen that isn't as nice.
Because they're cheaper.
>My laptop has a 16:9 that looks worse, and has lower resolution despite the machine costing 6x as much.
Right, so your laptop mfgr spent less money on the screen, charged more money, and got a higher profit margin -> win! This lets their execs get bigger bonuses so they can buy better yachts. What's not to like here?
Come on...
Excuse me?! I will never buy a laptop without a numpad! I use numpads every day!
The better question is why is anyone still squeezing a useless touchpad onto laptops???
But let's assume you really do need a numpad for your work or whatever. Wouldn't you rather have one that was... full sized? And wouldn't you rather the keyboard be centered on the laptop, so you can actually use it on a lap?
No point in arguing what you believe.
> Wouldn't you rather have one that was... full sized?
Yes, I would. But having a numpad is absolutely better than not having a numpad.
> wouldn't you rather the keyboard be centered on the laptop, so you can actually use it on a lap?
I can use my laptop on my lap when the keyboard is not centered. Do you have a disability (there's nothing wrong with having one) which prevents you from doing so?
No, I wouldn't rather suffer the loss of a numpad just to have the keyboard centered. Having the keyboard centered does not improve my usability in any way whatsoever. Removing the touchpad would, however. Disabling the touchpad is the first thing I do; I use keyboard navigation around things instead. It's faster and far less clumsy.
- typing numbers.
- sometimes also: typing really long numbers
- rarely, I'll use the numpad to hold my pinky finger. My control key, arrow key, and backspace key don't like this though.
- I also use the +, -, and Enter keys too.
- Asterisk is handy for multiplication. But slash is definitely not used ever.
- Once in a while I might press the NumLock key. Usually it's pressed in pairs.
Step 1: I don't get embarrassed by something that is functional.
Step 2. I don't get embarrassed by something that isn't ugly.
How do you get over the embarrassment of not being able to work and play as fast as the people who have a functional numpad?
Finally bit the bullet on got a Macbook Pro 14" instead...
I don't really care if they are going team red again. I'll be trying a different manufacturer next time.
After two years of struggle I have thrown the towel and got a used Macbook for the same price. I am starting to question their engineering priorities. Instead of developing new desktop environments I think they should make sure their devices are rock solid and work perfectly with Linux. That's their USP and they are not delivering on that promise.
It's a Zen3+ with embedded RDNA2 graphics.
Not the state of the art as of CES announcements, but I'd happily get a laptop with one of these if I needed a laptop right now.
It's good System76 is offering such an option, because it makes them a candidate.
I would not currently consider a laptop that's based on Intel or NVIDIA hardware, due to vastly inferior performance/watt and lack of open documentation, respectively.
Even a budget brand like Acer is releasing Ryzen 7000 chipsets and pairing it with higher resolution OLED screens, probably will be cheaper as well...
https://www.acer.com/ca-en/laptops/swift/swift-go-14-amd
https://www.anandtech.com/show/18718/amd-2023-ryzen-mobile-7...
(and honestly, Zen 3 and RDNA 2 are damn good anyway)
Like they don't have anything built as nicely as a Dell XPS or a ThinkPad Z or X1 Carbon. Even Acers look more premium...
I think a Linux-only laptop is pretty cool, even if it has some tradeoffs.
> Pick your perfect Swift Go 14 AMD
> Search for your Swift Go 14 AMD by features or browse the products below.
> Results: 0
I can't understand why I can't get a reasonably good priced laptop with just Linux that doesn't match the video resolution of a MBP.
But the build quality is uniformly worse. And the screen... it's an atrocity. You don't have to compare it to an MBP (I only have an old 2013 one, and it still wipes the floor with it). Even compared to an older XPS (7th gen intel), it's horrible.
since 13months ago, HP sells a elite book G9 for 2k, which have the best combo configuration at, gasp, wallmart for 800... eigth hundred dollars.
same cpu, but PRO version. metal and plastic body. scissor waterproof keyboard. usb c charging (system76 is barrel), 2x sodimm ram slots (system76 is soldered, note thay amd zen3+ pro mighty allow ECC ram in a laptop for the first time! so i want slots), the battery have 18Wh less, but it is also 20pct ligther. and all hardware is fully supported with 5.8+ kernel.
I always try to buy from linux-first-vendors, but I still deal with a librem13 that have sevral keys fail on their keyboard and support is ghosting me. even had to super-glue the hinge latelly. so awful :(
I have the older g8. It worked perfectly out of the box on linux since new. Recently, windows started being able to use the webcam, too.
But beware the screen. It's absurdly bad. I'd say it's okish for $800. For 2000, it's a bad joke. Some models only have 6-bit screens (at least those have an excuse for being horrible).
The fan is sometimes noisy, too. It seems like it's somewhat off-balance, ever since it was new.