The private lander's mission control looks like the proverbial two-pizza team.
Would it that the silent revolution in spaceflight, hidden under the glamour of reusable rockets, is incredibly sophisticated telemetry, communication, on-board automation? A computing stack that's making the 1x mission control a 10x mission control?
I understand there will be other teams elsewhere (delivery vehicle, remote sensing etc. etc.). But that image is rad too --- from one or a few space agencies co-orchestrating a program to multiples more doing so.
Obviously some version of this has been going on for decades, but somehow the imagery on their website struck a chord.
Linkedin suggests about 250 people. Lots of them with software in the name. Company looks very lean relative to the semiconductor monsters I'm more familiar with.
JAXA has done rocket launches with a ground crew of less than 10.
Obviously the extended support staff is much bigger than that to enable so few people to launch a rocket, but the number of people required when things are ready to go can be very small.
better, lighter-weight computing stacks have been a huge boost; that's what made cubesats possible. but the much bigger deal is the dramatic drop in launch costs driven by spacex, even though so far that's only a factor of 3.4 https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cost-space-launches-low-e...
with lightweight computers driven by the cellphone industry, it became possible for a small team or even individual to launch a low-power ham radio satellite or weather satellite. but they can't launch a high-resolution space telescope, earth observing satellite, or high-power communications satellite, nor can they do laser communication pointcasting. and lightweight computers are a crucial enabler for starlink-style communications constellations, but there's only one of those, because that's still a big-money kind of project
suppose that, instead, you had 01980s computing power, but the cost of space launch dropped by a factor of 100. if you need to launch a 200-kg satellite to get the sky-observing optical aperture you're looking for so diffraction doesn't cremate you, you don't care if the onboard computers weigh 1 gram or 10 kilograms. (i mean, you do care, because it lets you cut your launch budget 10%, but it's not a dominant determinant of viability.) with saturn v or zenit 2, according to the plot linked above, that launch would cost you a million dollars. today, at falcon heavy's 1500 dollars per kg, it's 300,000 dollars, which is already a radically more feasible project
spacex's 'starship' is supposed to carry 150 tonnes to leo for 10 million dollars. that's 70 dollars a kilogram. our hypothetical 200-kg aditya athalye space telescope satellite would then cost 14000 dollars to launch. it becomes a hobby project comparable in cost to an engine lathe or a camper van. this would change the economics of space in a profound way, far beyond what cellphone chips have done
for comparison, the csis aerospace security project number for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scout_(rocket_family) on that chart was 118500 dollars per kg in 01961. (but of course you couldn't launch a cubesat on it for that price; it was a military thing.) by 01967 saturn v had brought that down by a factor of 22. after that it remained constant for 43 years until falcon 9 in 02010. starship, if it works, will reduce launch costs by that same factor of 22 over the current falcon heavy number i described above, and by a factor of 73 over saturn v
The decline in price per kg from Falcon 9 has made a big difference and yet it's nowhere near as impactful as Starship is going to be... falcon 9 is either too powerful for LEO missions and limited by fairing volume( so can't really launch space stations on a falcon 9) or too weak to push further into GEO and into the solar system. Starship will enable a lot of LEO applications previously unthinkable.
The big improvement is not launch costs, but miniaturization and automation. A university team can make a credible lunar rover or cubesat today using off-the-shelf components. Unlike launch vehicles, that technology did not exist in 001960, or even 002000, at any price.
i came here for an argument, but this is just contradiction
it doesn't matter if you can make a credible lunar rover or not if the price to launch it is three times the grant the nsf will give your university team. given that nasa published their lunar roving vehicle documentation in mostly 0001973, down to circuit schematics and some machining dimensions, i'm pretty sure a university team in 00002000 could have duplicated it for less than the several million dollars the launch would cost. it only took boeing 17 months to design and build them in the first place, and they mostly use technology from the 000001940s (aluminum tubing, nylon webbing, wire mesh wheels, silver-zinc plexiglass batteries, brushed dc motors, cable brakes; fiberglass arm rests and fenders were apparently the highest-tech part and, unsurprisingly, the part that failed)
with respect to cubesats, you're in violent agreement with my comment. you obviously can't put a trs-80 in a cubesat. in 0000002000 you could put a basic stamp in it, but you couldn't get mems gyros and accelerometers, and you weren't going to be able to run your star tracker camera off a pic16. computer and imu miniaturization is a big deal for cubesats. that's one of the main points of my comment
the other main point is that it isn't nearly as big a deal for bigger satellites; when we were launching cubesats (before i joined the team) it was really important that we could use tiny cellphone components, but once we were launching 37kg monstrosities, the fact that the gumstix boards only weighed a few grams was just nice, not critical. the optics weighed a lot more
My big-picture point is simply that electronics are getting small and cheap much faster than launch costs are decreasing, so that is the important trend. We could have a revolution in space exploration and remote sensing even if launch costs flatlined.
Beyond that I'm not sure what we're arguing about, so I'll tap out here.
they aren't commensurable; as ben tilly pointed out, you cannot replace the oxygen you need to breathe with a sufficiently large quantity of granite (without equipment and energy to process it, anyway), and you cannot replace lower launch costs with smaller and cheaper electronics, in particular in the areas you named, space exploration and remote sensing, for the reasons i described
Oh I don't dispute the fact that reusable vehicles are an incredible leap forward. Anything that manages to launch significantly more payload cheaper and more frequently is awesome.
That said, things like reusability work at all because of precision control which, as far as I can tell, is near-impossible to do in a lightweight package without the cooperation of a compute stack. Same for other kinds of soft landings and autonomous control scenarios.
As an aside: achievements like reusable rockets also became possible because of advances in materials research driven by advances in computer simulation and computer-aided manufacturing. So this is perhaps another under-appreciated layer of the rocketry compute stack.
yes, those are excellent points i strongly agree with
what kinds of new materials are they using in the falcon rockets, do you know?
quite aside from the weight, latency is extremely important to precision control; a factor of 10 in latency may be equivalent to 100× or 1000× more sensor error. so, even if weight was no object and you could mount a dozen 5-tonne 10-megaflops cdc 6600 supercomputers on your reusable rocket as the guidance system, you might still be better off with a 100-megaflops high-end microcontroller, just because it can respond more rapidly to perturbations of homeostasis
> what kinds of new materials are they using in the falcon rockets, do you know?
I was thinking of materials innovation and new materials.
Without looking anything up, I would guess exotic alloys, ceramics, polymers, fuels and fuel mixes etc. at a chemical level, stress/failure modeling at a mechanical level, new manufacturing techniques that exploit properties of existing materials to achieve new capabilities, increased production efficiency for faster turnaround at better tolerances and integrity (because you figured out how to precision weld the thing in a new way) etc.
> A computing stack that's making the 1x mission control a 10x mission control
Isn't this obvious...? Given SpaceX's auto-pilot mission to the moon and all of these latest missions to asteroids and such...?
BTW They land on asteroids because they already have enough rock moons, asteroids are more varied than different surfaces of the moon, no conspiracy here.
Do you mean optical telescopes? I would have thought they used earth based radar plus star tracking onboard to figure out where they are in orbit, but I don't know.
No, as an American, you own them. NASA just administrates them for you. If you're a space faring private company, you contract out the various parts of the mission. You didn't build a rocket, you hired SpaceX. You didn't build the relay network, you licensed access time. You don't build a space observation platform, you license time to use them.
If I owned them, I would get to use them. I don’t, so logically I must not.
By this logic, there are huge amounts of land that I also “own” that guys with M16s (or, more accurately, M4s) will keep me from walking on if I try to go there. Half the year I live in southern Nevada, so this distinction has some direct practical consequences in my life.
It’s deceptive. Government property is not owned by citizens, it is under the exclusive control of the state—i.e. not you.
You conveniently left out the part of licensing the time. You can license with the BLM for access to government control land. Ranchers do it all the time. Special events like Burning Man also do it. You just have to contact the correct agency to do it. But of course, it so much easier to make a know it all sarcastic filled internet rant than do anything approaching useful information to a conversation.
I think we have a basic misunderstanding of private vs public ownership. When we all own it, you can't just do whatever you want like build a house, but withe proper permit, you can use it. If it was private, I could never do something with what you owned.
In the case of public ownership, I don't own it though. The entire public does. I'm willing to say "the people own" these telescopes, but that isn't what you originally said. You said "as an American, you own them" which isn't true.
Ownership rights and various kinds of access rights are not identical and often conflated.
For example, if I own a water well, I don’t necessarily have the rights to do whatever I want with it. Some jurisdictions might let me pump out as much water as I want, but even those will punish me for blatantly polluting it (one would hope).
What some people think of as something akin to “total ownership” — completely unlimited access — would be tantamount to putting one’s “rights” above everyone else’s. Even dictators usually have some limits on their power, whether by laws, norms, or geopolitical pressures.
I would say that in your example, the well is really two things: the water table (which you don't own), and the pump you use to draw water (which you do own).
This is a pretty silly pedantic point. Public property is owned and controlled by governments for the benefit of the public. That does not mean each individual member of the public has traditional ownership rights to said property.
> as an American, you own them. NASA just administrates them for you
Across public and private spheres, the word “ownership” loses meaning. (Nobody “owns” NASA or the U.S. government, though they do “belong”to we the people.) That’s why, in ownership disputes between nations and under the law, the operant term is “control.”
I'm not the person you replied to, but I assume they meant something like "as a non space agency". Ie how are they tracking the lander? How are they sending and receiving telemetry? What resources did they use for mission planning and site selection?
Perhaps they've built their own comms system for example - maybe even a multi-site one that enables continuous contact - or maybe they're using NASA/ESA/JAXA assets. It would be interesting to know.
I'm not aware of any commercial providers for lunar communications.
Ground infrastructure is important for space missions.
Intuitive Machines is operating under a NASA contract for Commercial Lunar Payload Services (CLPS) [1]. As such, they can negotiate access to NASA resources such as DSN and NEN for this mission. Intuitive Machines has also built several ground stations of their own [2]. These allow communications with the spacecraft as well as the range/velocity measurements needed for accurate navigation.
I'm the longer term, the Artemis program plans to build out LunaNet [3] for improved communications and GPS-like navigation services.
Yes, there is a fee. The largest antennas (i.e., the absolutely gigantic 70 meter dishes) can be $5k per hour. Further discussion on StackOverflow [1] and the NASA MOCS guide [2].
You are awesome! Thanks for all the links and info, to an open-ended question.
The process of bootstrapping to Earth-space-parity is fascinating to me.
One thing in the 1960s, when there was no GPS and terrestrial net assumption, but now you're going from everything we've built here to... if you don't bring it, you don't have it.
The accretion of Mars support satellites has also been fascinating.
The name LunaNet made me think of GPS cubesats and ground transponders that would make precise positioning lunar equipment/missions without the latency of coupling to earth systems. It's not that, it seems. Anyone want to start a location-based service company? ;)
Experience is irreproducible. It depends on too many factors, we even don't know the full list of them, and some of them change irreversibly with time passing. You will not be 10 years old anymore. It is not a good reason for a depression, you can experience world now like you couldn't being a 10 year old boy.
Actually one of the absolute best things about having kids, that is not reproducible for no-child lifestyles, is seeing everything for the first time through their eyes.
All the other stuff people say about parenting can be reproduced via service or volunteering or something else. But that experience absolutely is unique.
Magic is real. The world is wild and exciting, and it's all there for that kid. It's amazing to watch and be a part of.
So, while you can never go back to being at 10 year old boy, you absolutely can get a taste of what that's like via adoption or having your own. In my opinion, that is.
We are truly spreading the worst of humanity into the cosmos. Good job it's only us that appear able to witness it.
Defraying costs by using ads is a strawman. If you can't afford to do something, maybe don't do it. If you really, really want to do it, maybe ask yourself if the world genuinely needs what you're doing. If it does, find a way. If the only way you can do it is by selling advertising, you've taken as mis-step.
That's an extreme position to take that rests on the claim that sponsorship/advertising is objectively bad.
Media & journalism have been underpinned by advertising for over a century. Tons of educational and informative services are available to the public for free because of advertising. Sponsorship has built art galleries, hospital wings, research centers, etc.
In this case, there's a relatively innocuous logo on a robotic lander that is 230k miles away on a desolate rock. It's not like this is a billboard in a nature preserve.
Whether advertising is objectively bad isn't necessarily the debate, but at some point it can cross a line. That line might be different for everyone, but most people will have it. You yourself give an example of something you suggest might be unaccaptable to some:
> billboard in a nature preserve
Where's the line? Why shouldn't we put billboards in nature preserves?
I get where you're coming from with the AD on the spacecraft. It's gross to see an ad for a clothing company on the moon.
But, NASA is predominately displayed on all of the original moonshot crafts. That's an advertisement for that organization. . .
And, I'm 100% sure ego had nearly everything to do with the original space race. Beating the Russians and what-not. That seems, in hindsight, to be very ego driven?
The Columbia logo on this craft is both. They're advertising the brand in a very cool and unique way AND they contributed significant heat shield technology to the craft itself.
It's about self-identification not advertisement. And NASA isn't a privately-owned for-profit corporation. It's like putting "US NAVY" on a battleship, except instead it's a vehicle furthering mankind's technological development.
NASA is an organization that represents the collective efforts of Americans (and others!). Columbia clothing is a private business that maximizes profit.
This feels unnecessary cynical. I could understand if the spacecraft said "Drink Ovaltine" or something else just advertising with paid placement, but the brand marks on it are just highlighting the organizations the actually built the thing. I was originally confused/skeptical about Columbia, but they did actually contribute to the design and construction of the lander, even if this press release is a little puffed up: https://investor.columbia.com/news-events/press-releases/det....
Also, you say "It's all just egos and entertainment now." What do you think it was in 1969? Is "beat the Russians" somehow a more noble goal than "sell a product"?
Back when I used to help organized and run a technology-specific usergroup, where we were constantly working corporate sponsors for donations to pay for food/beverages, I joked that on meeting nights I would gladly wear a NASCAR style jumpsuit, emblazoned with every sponsor brand logo/slogan. At least we would be honest shills. Sigh... no one took me up on the offer.
The US flag on the early moon landings, was absolutely an advertisement; the whole thing was done as a propaganda riposte to the Soviet Union's Sputnik. Doesn't mean it's not awesome.
That's because you were a child at the time. A child now will most likely have the same sense of awe and wonder you had, not the cynical point of view you've developed over time.
I’m just glad it’s not something “too on the nose” comedically, like for Coca-Cola or something that makes me think of Wall-E. At least it’s a hiking/adventurey brand and not KFC.
We planted an American flag on the moon. An advertisement for the Coca-Cola of American imperialism versus the Pepsi of Soviet communism. The entire space race was literally nothing but ego and propaganda.
It's carrying a payload for Columbia, among other things, which makes this type of marking generally called a “sponsor logo” rather than an “advertisement”:
“Besides NASA’s tech and navigation experiments, Intuitive Machines sold space on the lander to Columbia Sportswear to fly its newest insulating jacket fabric; sculptor Jeff Koons for 125 mini moon figurines; and Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University for a set of cameras to capture pictures of the descending lander.”
Pretty cheeky of Columbia to sponsor this. They couldn't even make the shoes I bought that were 'absolutely waterproof' actually waterproof. A super light rain would result in wet feet. This didn't even happen in normal sneakers.
Columbia is known for incredibly good lifetime warranty- contact them and get something that works for free.
I use mostly Columbia gear for some pretty serious outdoor adventures, and generally consider their waterproof tech, especially outdry rain shells to be the best you can get at any price. However, I don't (and wouldn't) use any of their footwear.
For waterproof footwear, breathable membranes don't work well in my experience, they quickly tear and leak. The membranes are just too delicate for the forces and flexing on a boot. A really well built traditional leather boot with external waterproofing like Sno Seal applied daily is both more breathable, and more waterproof. Failing that, heavy rubber boots like commercial fisherman wear are really the only totally waterproof footwear.
I visited all states in the western half and it was shocking to see that the infrastructure outside of the cities is more or less comparable with the poorest parts of eastern Europe. It did not change my opinion of the US for the better.
Your comment was about the treatment of women, though, not infrastructure. You probably know that Florida and Alabama are not in the western half of the US. Texas is so big it's often considered its own place, but much of Texas is considered part of the American South in culture and geography. Did you visit Texas? If so, which parts? Much of Europe can fit comfortably within the landmass of Texas, so maybe you just don't have an appreciation of the scale of the U.S. and what that means for politics, infrastructure, culture, etc... Having lived in France, Italy, and the UK for extended periods, I can say that your comments about Europe's superiority don't resonate.
You’re right. While the state of the infrastructure shocked me, it doesn’t say anything about the backwards policies you have in your book burning, women hating states.
Women die because they're not allowed to abort nonviable fetuses that would also likely kill them. Seems very unsafe, I wouldn't want to be a woman there.
It's hard to tell what you're actually asking but the Louisiana department of health claims it's about 1 in 10,000 die from pregnancy complications [0]. University of California San Francisco claims 6%-8% of pregnancies are high risk [1].
The World Health Organization claims a global rate of 4.3 mother deaths per 1000 live births in low income countries versus 1.2 deaths per 10,000 live births in high income countries [2].
Here are some statistics about Termination for Medical Reasons (TFMR):
Pregnancies with major congenital fetal abnormalities: Most pregnancies with a major congenital fetal abnormality end in TFMR. The percentage of pregnancies that end in TFMR can range from 70% to 95% depending on the severity of the abnormality.
Stillbirth: TFMR is almost twice as common as stillbirth. In 2018, Tommy's statistics reported 2,943 babies lost after being stillborn, while the DHSC reported 3,269 TFMR during that same time period.
Down's syndrome: 20% of TFMRs are due to Down's syndrome.
Pregnancies with Turner syndrome: Turner syndrome leads to the highest rate of pregnancy termination (100%).
Pregnancies with Klinefelter syndrome: Klinefelter syndrome leads to the second highest rate of termination (73.9%).
In the UK, over 70% of congenital anomalies are detected during pregnancy and, of those, around 37% will result in TFMR. In Europe, the prevalence rate of TFMR is 4.6 per 1,000 births.
Seven percent of women cited health concerns for themselves or possible problems affecting the health of the fetus as their most important reason in 2004, about the same as in 1987.
you may or may not be aware that a common result of such laws is that doctors refuse to get involved in cases where an abortion is necessary to save the mother's life, because they don't want to have to convince a jury of it. better to take a different patient and not risk going to jail until the trial
As a partner with a wife who went into septic shock, sepsis is no joke. I was given a 40% chance of her living through the night, which, thankfully she did. Doctors are understandably hesitant to perform an abortion because they could be held criminally liable if some court after the fact, with months of hindsight, may consider that the mother could have lived even if the baby was brought to term. So this is a no-win scenario all around and a terrible law from a party that claims to eschew any government overreach into personal lives.
Nobody knows the letter of the law in the real world and carveouts like this are meant to appease political opposition and get laws passed, not to be enforceable/usable. It's an effective total ban.
For non-Americans everywhere, disallowing abortion including nonviable pregnancies sounds barbaric. America is viewed as the most advanced nation in the world. But these Taliban-level backwardness is mind boggling.
America was never this regressive and tribal when I went to school there in the mid 80's til the 1990.
Given Alaska is a 3x outlier compared to the national average, and almost 2x the next highest state, it seems unreasonable to draw conclusions from it alone.
Also a parent with similar concerns including book bans, systematic weakening of science, education and library institutions, unstable power during temperature extremes (TX), unrestrained gun violence, restrictions on sex ed, and encouraged intolerance of gender differences. To name a few.
> All postings for software engineers are on-site, in Texas. Not moving my family to Texas, Florida, or Alabama, for anything. Beautiful states, but I have a daughter.
That these states are antagonistic to women's health. See: Alabama's ruling that frozen embryos for IVF are actually children with all the rights thereof, immediately ceasing IVF procedures.
This woman in Texas having to sue to avoid a very dangerous birth of a child who will she will end up having to watch die within a few days.
> It states Cox’s OB-GYN, Dr. Damla Karsan, has a “good faith belief” that Cox falls under the legal exception to the abortion ban, but can’t provide the abortion without a court order because she “cannot risk loss of her medical license, life in prison, and massive civil fines” if her belief is not accepted by the courts.
So yes, Texas has an exception for births that would threaten the mother's life, but in practice doctors are justifiably petrified of betting their freedom on their assessment of that risk lining up with a bunch of medically ignorant theocrats' assessments.
The opinion in the Alabama Supreme Court ruling is a fascinating read, as the justices attempting to figure out what the heck the legislature's intent was in a poorly-written and sparse law.
>> Texas has an exception for births that would threaten the mother's life
I saw an interview with a political appointee in charge of exemptions, I believe in texas. He was a hardcore right-wing Christian republican strongly against abortion. He lasted a week. After seeing all the various horror stories, the stuff that obgyns learn of at school, he radically changed his mind and was asking to let doctors again make the decisions: "Please, I don't want to see any more of those ultrasounds."
Frozen embryos are children with all rights? What's next? Women who have periods are serial killers and must be kept pregnant at all times? Most of those frozen embryos are less than a dozen stem cells. You lose far more skin cells every second.
There is no way to describe this other than religious crankery.
There are some horror stories coming out of certain US states, mostly surrounding woman's reproductive rights. There are crackdowns on old ways of doing things such as driving your daughter to another state in order to have an abortion. That can now be a very serious felony for all involved. Many people with kids, and many young women, are starting to actively avoid moving to these states.
This is growing problem for military recruiters. Try telling a 17yo highschool girl that if she joins the army at 18 she may be posted to some random state where she may not have access to various forms of reproductive healthcare, where perhaps even contraception may soon be disallowed. Or tell a gay kid that he might be moved to a state where the return of sodomy laws is openly discussed in the legislature. Heck no. Even if the new laws are not as bad as reported, they are a significant factor for many young people.
Dystopian but also something unique to the US. Each state is effectively a different country with sometimes radically different laws. But people are free to move about and select which set of laws they want to live under, at least so long as they are not pregnant. New parents may move to state A so their daughter can have reproducer freedom. Or a billionaire may move to state B so he can more easily sell stocks without being taxed. No other country organizes itself around such a pick-your-laws scheme.
Switzerland did this even before the US. The US model is basically a copy of how Switzerland has been working (probably even more radically so with a much weaker federal government).
But the emotional policies surrounding abortion in the US do not stem from their federal organization but rather roots in rather strong religious sentiments still more prevalent in the US than probably many other western countries.
In Switzerland abortion has been formally legal since about 2001.
Some of the other commenters hit the nail on the head. The reason is the removal of women's rights previously taken as a given. Also a consideration is the negative view/actions of some police in these states toward anyone who is considered non-standard or non-Christian in any way (e.g., at one point my daughter was close friends with a Muslim African-American).
This is America, so according to the current laws those states have the right to do that. I personally think it's wrong, and would never subject my daughter to that, but my only option is to vote with my money and my feet - so I don't go to conferences in those states, and will never live in those states.
“A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.”
― Winston S. Churchill
As a parting thought, I admire Nikolai Tesla, and Alan Turing. Tesla was suspected of being a communist and was in love with a pigeon. Turing was homosexual.
How do you think either of these legendary minds would have fared had they been born in and lived in Texas? Would they have survived to do what they did?
What would our world be like today if it had none of their publications or inventions?
I’m confused about this from an economic standpoint. Assume you could put aside an additional $5k while living in these states, wouldn’t that provide a hedge for the medical needs of your daughter? If needed, you could then travel to a location that provides what you are concerned about. (Not to get hung up on “$5k”, you could substitute any arbitrary number for this cost-benefit judgement)
If move opened the possibility for a lucrative and rewarding career wouldn’t the trade off be worth it?
I'm Dutch, an additional 5k per month would not buy me the feeling of safety I enjoy in the Netherlands. It's not just medical bills. It's also the crime and rape rates. You don't cover death and trauma with insurance.
Oh, yeah, can't help you there. I was thinking you were commenting as a person in a blue state worried about a red state political policy. There's blue vs red and then there's Europe vs US. A whole different order of magnitude. I mean all the same economic freedom vs policy concerns trade-offs still apply; but I'm well aware that there is a massive rift in risk comprehension going in both directions. The US is huge and the stuff you see on the news isn't happening where people with nice salaries live (I mean, statistically never, the news is not statistically accurate).
But I encountered a funny additional problem with that recently when talking to a European transplant which is: you need a car in the US. The US is huge and cheap and safe but you need a car. If you don't have a car you have to live within a subway system. Then it's not cheap/safe (pick one).
The lack of thoughtful urban planning is only a small factor. Yes, you have 30% more traffic related deaths, but check all other quality of living related indices and you can only conclude the US is a not even competing.
As a result, check your position in the happiness index and wonder if you, as a country, maybe fail your citizens. The only index where the US is leading is GDP, and that’s not a big factor in anyone’s life.
You can’t put a price on feeling safe. There are lots of tiktok and yt videos of expats living here who explain just that.
Woah now, its been awhile since I looked but I think we also tend to be in the top 5 countries of number of people incarcerated per capita. If that doesn't spell happiness, I don't know what does.
I'm a citizen in the US, and conversely I wouldn't move to the Netherlands for any amount of money. Everyone values different things differently I suppose.
There was (or still is?) the abortion bounty-hunter law which would allow any private citizen in Texas to sue him if he did what you are proposing. There were also some counties that made it illegal to use their roads to transport someone for the purpose of getting an abortion.
In Texas, there is a clear push to criminalize the act of going out of state to get an abortion.
Seems like laws against crossing state lines for a medical procedure wouldn't withstand a legal challenge because it involves out-of-state commerce. I'm not a lawyer, but that intervention seems to be aggressive and exactly the place courts/congress would step in. Also, in a scenario where it would does hold up, then CA/NY would start doing the same w/gun stuff. And then FL/TX would respond with something else against CA/NY. So... MAD should prevent states from being too aggressive in this area.
Again, my concern is trying to figure out the statistically best way to navigate the various political landscapes and future political possibilities. It just seems too focused on one particular area of risk. I wouldn't categorically close out a good company / good career just because of this risk. This seems like the right place to recommend a hedge.
Having to participate in an ugly, media-circus-y court fight while also going through a medical procedure/emergency does not sound like a fun time. Unless you have a big appetite for drama and hardship, living in a red state is a really bad idea if you have a chance of becoming pregnant, intentionally or unintentionally.
There have been legal challenges against travelling for the procedures we're talking about, there are laws on the books in some of these states that criminalise helping someone to leave the state to receive treatment.
There's a reason why many companies who have offices here have offered relocation to employees so that they don't need to contend with these laws if/when they are enforced upon them.
Every country has it's tradeoffs. Some have high tax and a good social net, some the opposite. Each of those have their advantages.
But for 40% income tax, you would expect a hell of a lot more than what you're describing. Ironically the government could dramatically improve matters by interfering in your private life less, probably saving you money in the process as well.
> Every country has it's tradeoffs. Some have high tax and a good social net, some the opposite. Each of those have their advantages.
And that completely glosses over there are demonstrably worse countries. North Korea, Eritrea, Russia, Uganda - for examples.
And there's also significantly better countries too. The Nordic countries come to mind.
And for the USA, try driving through rural America, Appalachia, any Native American reservation country.. hell, even inner cities. A few live it big, and the rest barely survive. It used to be better. Not now.
> But for 40% income tax, you would expect a hell of a lot more than what you're describing.
Exactly. I want democratic socialism. And the corporations have that here. The individuals? We get unabashed caveat emptor capitalism.
> Ironically the government could dramatically improve matters by interfering in your private life less, probably saving you money in the process as well.
A little bit less anger is called for here. I'm not an American voter but this sort of thing is just a turn-off and pushes people away into the extremes.
Wanting lower taxes and more individual freedom != Randian libertarianism, in much the same way as wanting a better safety net != Marxism.
You complain about both abortion rights and paying 40% tax. Well, the state is spending some of those taxes to police your abortion rights. You can get two birds with one stone - either lower taxes or more spending on other things, and also stronger individual rights.
> A little bit less anger is called for here. I'm not an American voter but this sort of thing is just a turn-off and pushes people away into the extremes.
Fair enough, my apologies. However the "Ironically the government could dramatically improve matters by interfering in your private life less" is a direct libertarian dog whistle.
And my complaint about 40% tax isn't complaining about the tax per se, but that I want a proper social net for everyone. Instead, we're getting a social net for almost nobody.
The republican party is also joined at the hip with evangelical christians who would love to create a Margaret Atwood-ean Handmaid's Tale country... In fact, they're a good step there at the federal court level and most republican led states. This is definitely separated from taxes, since this is turning everyone into stasi-like informants. Reducing taxes is not going to reduce higher profile women being found guilty of "murder" over abortion.
Again, the better solutions here are to flea to a democratic state, or leave the country to a less shitty one. (Again, I reject the idea that all countries are roughly the same.)
No problem. I'm not American so there's little point in swaying me one way or the other.
I agree with you on pretty much all of it, but I don't think that my other statement was a libertarian dog whistle. It's just a policy that I think would work - the government is for running the justice system, defence, taking out the garbage, maybe a social safety net depending on who you ask, stuff like that. A little bit of libertarianism (certainly not all of it) is the perfect cure for a Handmaid's Tale scenario.
Just one last point - some countries are certainly much better than others. I'm from Africa, have lived in Europe, and now I live in Canada, which is the best of all in my opinion. The USA though is amazing and far ahead of the rest in many ways - the drawbacks have been discussed but all that economic and social freedom does not count for nothing. I think all advanced countries have something to offer to someone who's aligned the right way. For 40% tax you'd expect a whole lot of nice things though!
I'm suprised by the number of replies here that don't get why it's unsafe for girls and women in Texas (and some other US states). I'm also not American, but you had to be living under a rock in the past months and years if you didn't get wind of the overtunring of Roe vs. Wade and the reproductive rights policies in Texas.
Not limited to having a daughter. My extended family has a trans son. Luckily they are in California. That’s a difficult thing to navigate in itself without living in a state where the fad is to elect the worst people possible.
This could be the real-life version of Helios one day!
Yeah, it's a bummer that the majority of Space Software jobs are not remote friendly. You have to look really hard to find the ones that are. Some are because you have to actually physically be near the spacecraft to build and debug certain software or firmware but others are just because everyone else is doing that and it's harder for them to manage a small remote contingent.
Still, I hope that this can change in the future, the space industry misses out on a lot of good software talent because of it. Maybe with better visualization technologies like the Apple headset this'll be more possible.
It's interesting how this feels like a big deal; when I learned of this yesterday, I almost forgot that there have been almost 30 missions to Mars (which I assume is much harder and more expensive) in the years since the last moon landing.
I'm more excited about the moon. Being that much closer is a big deal. This company is looking to make sending stuff to the moon (not sure about getting stuff back) a reliable & vaguely cost effective thing to do.
There's probably valuable stuff on the moon and even if not, it's learning a load of things about going further afield. Lots of science fiction about the asteroid belt beyond mars.
While just landing on the moon is definitely much simpler than a Mars mission, this lander is a part of the Artemis program; it's one of the first steps towards developing the Artemis base camp on the moon.
> which I assume is much harder and more expensive
Manned space missions are significantly more expensive (and complicated) than robotic missions. (Otherwise, we'd be sending a lot more people into space.)
Let's do a little bit of back-of-the-envelope Googling:
> The United States spent $25.8 billion on Project Apollo between 1960 and 1973, or approximately $257 billion when adjusted for inflation to 2020 dollars.
> The Mars Exploration Rover (MER) mission cost $1.08 billion. Of that amount, $744 million was spent on spacecraft development and launch; $335.8 million was spent on 15 years of mission operations.
So it looks like "manned" space missions cost at least 100x the cost of sending a robot.
The post you're replying to is comparing robotic missions to Mars vs. the moon.
Mars is orders of magnitude harder to land on because of its atmosphere, stronger gravity, and the need to keep your robot healthy on the long trip over.
Just before landing, at approximately 30 m (98 ft) above the lunar surface, the Odysseus lander will eject the EagleCam camera-equipped CubeSat, which will drop onto the lunar surface near the lander, with an impact velocity of about 10 m/s (22 mph). From the surface the EagleCam will attempt to capture the first third-person images of a lunar landing. The EagleCam will use a Wi-Fi connection to the Odysseus lander to relay its images back to Earth.”
That CubeSat is student built. I wonder what camera they have and how hard it will be to make it record the landing. Will it orient itself during that six-ish second drop or can it move the camera after landing? Does it have a fisheye lens to increase the likelihood of the lander being in its field of vision?
If basic radio worked for talking between suits and the landing craft in '69, it surely shouldn't be a surprise that modern frequency-hopping, error corrected, wireless comms, with much more sensitive equipment would work well?
The walkie-talkie toys I had as a kid in the 90s had at least 10x the range of modern home wifi routers. Not to mention how far radio stations broadcast. I'm guessing that's the context they're working from.
That's because of different frequencies and power caps that are enforced by the FCC. If your WiFi broadcast with the same power, the frequency space would be unusable by your neighbors for their WiFi. The range of WiFi is very purposefully sabotaged to make it useful for more than just you.
And also because our kid-era walkie talkies were VHF (or at least mine were) which is a much lower frequency band than wifi. At a given power level, lower frequencies travel farther (i.e. around obstacles) but can't transfer as many bits as wifi.
Assuming you are talking about FCC Part 15 regulations for 2.4 GHz, you couldn't be more wrong. There is no 'sabotage'
The EIRP is 4 watts in 2.4 GHz band. More than enough to wipe out your neighbors. Also more than enough to get absolutely tremendous range in line of sight conditions.
I can purchase and install an unlimited number of 2.4 GHz Part 15 devices, rendering the band useless to anyone so long as I am attempting to use those devices in a manner consistent with their application. As another Part 15 user, you have no recourse. If a licensed user complains to the FCC, they may decide I have to stop using them and notify me as such. Note: one of my neighbors does this, by having an AP on every 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz channel.
Newest Wifi 6 stuff in the US has a power limit on some spectrum and some usages, but nowhere near as low as what I was hoping for.
If you're above the frequency at which the ionosphere becomes reflective (around 30 MHz), why should space be noisier than the Earth's surface? Anything propagating there will reach down here (unless it's something really short wave absorbed by molecular bands in the atmosphere.)
In practice, it's going to be noiser down here, because of all the sources down here.
Noise you can correct for with directional antennas, filters, and/or more signal processing voodoo. Meanwhile you benefit from space being actually empty - no pesky atmosphere in the way to attenuate signals (though also no layers to bounce the signal off), and no other transmitters in your area. Inverse square law works to your advantage in this context.
I don't know specifically about wifi but, check out EME bounces. With a hand held ham radio on the 6M band and a directional antenna made from like $6 of supplies from your local hardware store, you can have a radio that can bounce a signal off the moon and talk to someone on the other side of the earth.
It’s more like the 2m and 70cm bands, and really big expensive antennas. You can bounce signals off of meteor trails with a cheap antenna and 6m radios, though!
Been out of it awhile so i was thinking 6m, mighta gotten mixed with the scatter-e propagation. But I knew a guy down in San Diego who used to do EME bounces with cheap directional antennas he homemade. But that guy was also an EE at Qualcomm there.
But that was 6 years ago and since I've moved up to Oregon, I havnt gotten to do much ham stuff because I could never hit the repeaters around here. Maybe they are no longer up, maybe its all the hills and volcanic rock?
You can make it work with normal human antennas, as long as the other person has the big ones! I could never contact someone with the same antenna and radio as me via the MOON, but I can on certain days be heard by those big dogs!
Yes, but even that isn’t simple, I think. They’d not want to land on top of it, so they’d have to push it out from the lander or have it propel itself away from the lander. If they push it out and it doesn’t have a way to stabilize itself, keeping the lens pointing upwards then will require tight control over that push.
So, I guessed (see below) you’d need power to make the sat orient itself.
“EagleCam will be spring ejected from the Nova-C class lander Odysseus about 30 meters above the lunar surface during the final descent. It will take three images a second from each of its three cameras (a total of nine images a second), capturing its six-second freefall to the surface and Odysseus’ descent and soft landing. About an hour after landing, our team will receive the five images of our choosing. During descent, Dr. Henderson and I will be timing events in landing sequence to match to image numbers to choose the first five images we bring back to Earth. Once we have those images, I will post them directly to @eraueaglecam on Instagram. Shortly after that, they will also be available on @spacetechnologieslab on Instagram and @SpaceTechLab on X (formerly Twitter).”
So, it isn’t a 360 camera, and they’re making 50-ish images and hoping for the best. Doesn’t look like the sat has rockets or that they’re trying to make it possible to make more photos after impact on the moon.
If my guesses/intuition is right we won’t see the actual touchdown (still cool to have anything, of course), but corrections welcome.
Wouldn’t be any better. You’d need 4 to be able to reliably land with one pointed out of the regolith. That’s probably pushing it in terms of mass. 3 wouldn’t be any better than 2 though.
A decade ago, maybe. Today? SpaceX is commoditizing access to space - we're at the point we can start treating Earth-orbit delivery as a given, i.e. just a service you pay money for.
I was a part of this project over a decade ago when I attended ERAU! At the time the goal was just to take pictures of earth. It is so cool to see how the scope has expanded over the years.
Our student group drove down to Cape Canaveral to pick up and haul a clean room back to the university that NASA donated for use to build the satellite. I will never forget those experiences.
According to https://www.npr.org/2024/02/23/1233677833/lunar-lander-odyss... it's a cube with four cameras, which was supposed to pop off 30 seconds before touchdown to capture pictures of Odysseus' landing. But EagleCam was deliberately powered off during the final descent because of the navigation switch and stayed attached to the lander.
The team will try to release EagleCam in the coming days, so it can photograph the lander from roughly 26 feet (8 meters) away.
I believe they are part of the recently setup homesteading program similar to what Alaska setup in the 80s. If they can put a stake in the ground they get 20 acres around the stake.
The next stage in this project is the ice-drilling PRIME-1 - which might rely on the success of this stage? Details:
> "The [Odyssus] Nova-C Lander is a tall hexagonal cylinder on 6 landing legs. It is capable of carrying 100 to 130 kg of payload to the surface. It uses solar panels to generate 200 W of power on the surface. Propulsion and landing use liquid methane as fuel and liquid oxygen as an oxidizer. The PRIME-1 mission has two primary components, The Regolith and Ice Drill for Exploring New Terrain (TRIDENT) and the Mass Spectrometer observing lunar operations (MSolo). TRIDENT is an augering drill approximately 1 meter long. The drill is able to stop at any depth as commanded from the ground and deposit and deposit its sample on the surface for analysis. MSolo is a commercial off the shelf (COTS) mass spectrometer modified for spaceflight and lunar operations. Total PRIME-1 payload mass is about 40 kg."
> the Odysseus lander will eject the EagleCam camera-equipped CubeSat, which will drop onto the lunar surface near the lander
So the first non-government device to land on moon will be viewed trying to land by a device also non-government (but part of the lander) that lands on the moon first? I guess that evens out.
This is great, it really proves that the free market can be just as innovative and efficient as the public sector. They managed to get there less than 50 years after the taxpayer funded space guys did. No small feat! Imagine all the things they must've learned along the way!
You do realize this mission is taxpayer funded. Intuitive Machines is getting paid as part of a contract to NASA under the Commercial Lunar Payload Services (CLIPS) program.
Yeah, For All Mankind is a great show for people who are excited about this kind of stuff. It's an alternative-history fictional drama exploring "What if" the space race never ended.
Yep. Highly enjoyed its Season 1, but I wished I never watched any further - it feels complete at this point and the later seasons destroy the impression. Kind of like with The Matrix.
Note: some people have an opposite opinion, that the interesting stuff starts at Season 3.
Agreed, Season 1 was by far the best. I'm re-watching the whole thing with my spouse and in some ways it's more fun the second time around (surely biased because of the shared experience).
Some shows are like that - I didn't think Star Trek Deep Space Nine was all that hot first time around, appreciated it much more years later on a rewatch (the supporting characters are awesome). Maybe in part it's adjusted expectations ;-).
I wanted to like it, and having some (reasonably-)big-budget visualization made of proposed rockets like Sea Dragon was great. But the (imo) awful dialog made the show unwatchable for me, and they did a lot of scientifically silly stuff like taking the Space Shuttle to the moon.
Ridiculous this isn't more prominent in mainstream news. Eg. I open Google News to stories of killers and a new real estate tax and some sort of scandal by an actor. This is why I come to HN instead.
I found it on Fox News by search and it's a fair scroll down. I also found in MSNBC by search, but actually don't know where it is just that the word "moon" exists somewhere on that page and for the life of me I cannot see what word is highlighted.
Google News is absolute garbage these days. Their algorithmic curation has not kept up with SEO and still treats popularity as a proxy for significance.
285 comments
[ 2.2 ms ] story [ 97.2 ms ] threadWould it that the silent revolution in spaceflight, hidden under the glamour of reusable rockets, is incredibly sophisticated telemetry, communication, on-board automation? A computing stack that's making the 1x mission control a 10x mission control?
I understand there will be other teams elsewhere (delivery vehicle, remote sensing etc. etc.). But that image is rad too --- from one or a few space agencies co-orchestrating a program to multiples more doing so.
Obviously some version of this has been going on for decades, but somehow the imagery on their website struck a chord.
Obviously the extended support staff is much bigger than that to enable so few people to launch a rocket, but the number of people required when things are ready to go can be very small.
with lightweight computers driven by the cellphone industry, it became possible for a small team or even individual to launch a low-power ham radio satellite or weather satellite. but they can't launch a high-resolution space telescope, earth observing satellite, or high-power communications satellite, nor can they do laser communication pointcasting. and lightweight computers are a crucial enabler for starlink-style communications constellations, but there's only one of those, because that's still a big-money kind of project
suppose that, instead, you had 01980s computing power, but the cost of space launch dropped by a factor of 100. if you need to launch a 200-kg satellite to get the sky-observing optical aperture you're looking for so diffraction doesn't cremate you, you don't care if the onboard computers weigh 1 gram or 10 kilograms. (i mean, you do care, because it lets you cut your launch budget 10%, but it's not a dominant determinant of viability.) with saturn v or zenit 2, according to the plot linked above, that launch would cost you a million dollars. today, at falcon heavy's 1500 dollars per kg, it's 300,000 dollars, which is already a radically more feasible project
spacex's 'starship' is supposed to carry 150 tonnes to leo for 10 million dollars. that's 70 dollars a kilogram. our hypothetical 200-kg aditya athalye space telescope satellite would then cost 14000 dollars to launch. it becomes a hobby project comparable in cost to an engine lathe or a camper van. this would change the economics of space in a profound way, far beyond what cellphone chips have done
for comparison, the csis aerospace security project number for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scout_(rocket_family) on that chart was 118500 dollars per kg in 01961. (but of course you couldn't launch a cubesat on it for that price; it was a military thing.) by 01967 saturn v had brought that down by a factor of 22. after that it remained constant for 43 years until falcon 9 in 02010. starship, if it works, will reduce launch costs by that same factor of 22 over the current falcon heavy number i described above, and by a factor of 73 over saturn v
it doesn't matter if you can make a credible lunar rover or not if the price to launch it is three times the grant the nsf will give your university team. given that nasa published their lunar roving vehicle documentation in mostly 0001973, down to circuit schematics and some machining dimensions, i'm pretty sure a university team in 00002000 could have duplicated it for less than the several million dollars the launch would cost. it only took boeing 17 months to design and build them in the first place, and they mostly use technology from the 000001940s (aluminum tubing, nylon webbing, wire mesh wheels, silver-zinc plexiglass batteries, brushed dc motors, cable brakes; fiberglass arm rests and fenders were apparently the highest-tech part and, unsurprisingly, the part that failed)
https://www.nasa.gov/history/alsj/alsj-LRVdocs.html
with respect to cubesats, you're in violent agreement with my comment. you obviously can't put a trs-80 in a cubesat. in 0000002000 you could put a basic stamp in it, but you couldn't get mems gyros and accelerometers, and you weren't going to be able to run your star tracker camera off a pic16. computer and imu miniaturization is a big deal for cubesats. that's one of the main points of my comment
the other main point is that it isn't nearly as big a deal for bigger satellites; when we were launching cubesats (before i joined the team) it was really important that we could use tiny cellphone components, but once we were launching 37kg monstrosities, the fact that the gumstix boards only weighed a few grams was just nice, not critical. the optics weighed a lot more
so tell us, what's your experience?
Beyond that I'm not sure what we're arguing about, so I'll tap out here.
now, bring me a shrubbery!
That said, things like reusability work at all because of precision control which, as far as I can tell, is near-impossible to do in a lightweight package without the cooperation of a compute stack. Same for other kinds of soft landings and autonomous control scenarios.
As an aside: achievements like reusable rockets also became possible because of advances in materials research driven by advances in computer simulation and computer-aided manufacturing. So this is perhaps another under-appreciated layer of the rocketry compute stack.
what kinds of new materials are they using in the falcon rockets, do you know?
quite aside from the weight, latency is extremely important to precision control; a factor of 10 in latency may be equivalent to 100× or 1000× more sensor error. so, even if weight was no object and you could mount a dozen 5-tonne 10-megaflops cdc 6600 supercomputers on your reusable rocket as the guidance system, you might still be better off with a 100-megaflops high-end microcontroller, just because it can respond more rapidly to perturbations of homeostasis
I was thinking of materials innovation and new materials.
Without looking anything up, I would guess exotic alloys, ceramics, polymers, fuels and fuel mixes etc. at a chemical level, stress/failure modeling at a mechanical level, new manufacturing techniques that exploit properties of existing materials to achieve new capabilities, increased production efficiency for faster turnaround at better tolerances and integrity (because you figured out how to precision weld the thing in a new way) etc.
(edit: clarity)
Isn't this obvious...? Given SpaceX's auto-pilot mission to the moon and all of these latest missions to asteroids and such...?
BTW They land on asteroids because they already have enough rock moons, asteroids are more varied than different surfaces of the moon, no conspiracy here.
(I upvoted you BTW)
Are they leveraging Earth/orbit-based radar? Or satellites around the moon? Or something else?
By this logic, there are huge amounts of land that I also “own” that guys with M16s (or, more accurately, M4s) will keep me from walking on if I try to go there. Half the year I live in southern Nevada, so this distinction has some direct practical consequences in my life.
It’s deceptive. Government property is not owned by citizens, it is under the exclusive control of the state—i.e. not you.
For example, if I own a water well, I don’t necessarily have the rights to do whatever I want with it. Some jurisdictions might let me pump out as much water as I want, but even those will punish me for blatantly polluting it (one would hope).
What some people think of as something akin to “total ownership” — completely unlimited access — would be tantamount to putting one’s “rights” above everyone else’s. Even dictators usually have some limits on their power, whether by laws, norms, or geopolitical pressures.
Across public and private spheres, the word “ownership” loses meaning. (Nobody “owns” NASA or the U.S. government, though they do “belong”to we the people.) That’s why, in ownership disputes between nations and under the law, the operant term is “control.”
Perhaps they've built their own comms system for example - maybe even a multi-site one that enables continuous contact - or maybe they're using NASA/ESA/JAXA assets. It would be interesting to know.
I'm not aware of any commercial providers for lunar communications.
They seem to either own or co-own all of the hardware
Intuitive Machines is operating under a NASA contract for Commercial Lunar Payload Services (CLPS) [1]. As such, they can negotiate access to NASA resources such as DSN and NEN for this mission. Intuitive Machines has also built several ground stations of their own [2]. These allow communications with the spacecraft as well as the range/velocity measurements needed for accurate navigation.
I'm the longer term, the Artemis program plans to build out LunaNet [3] for improved communications and GPS-like navigation services.
[1] https://www.nasa.gov/missions/artemis/clps/intuitive-machine...
[2] https://www.intuitivemachines.com/post/commercial-lunar-netw...
[3] https://www.nasa.gov/humans-in-space/lunanet-empowering-arte...
[1] https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/21005/what-makes-t...
[2] https://deepspace.jpl.nasa.gov/files/6_NASA_MOCS_2014_10_01_...
The process of bootstrapping to Earth-space-parity is fascinating to me.
One thing in the 1960s, when there was no GPS and terrestrial net assumption, but now you're going from everything we've built here to... if you don't bring it, you don't have it.
The accretion of Mars support satellites has also been fascinating.
We will never reproduce the experience of 10 year old me watching the moon landing with my dad. It's all just egos and entertainment now.
All the other stuff people say about parenting can be reproduced via service or volunteering or something else. But that experience absolutely is unique.
Magic is real. The world is wild and exciting, and it's all there for that kid. It's amazing to watch and be a part of.
So, while you can never go back to being at 10 year old boy, you absolutely can get a taste of what that's like via adoption or having your own. In my opinion, that is.
I see what you did there, heh!
Just here to both support and counter this a bit. Kids are absolutely a great way to see joy in the world again!
... but they don't have to be yours. I've supervised those for my peers, played temporary dad, all of it.
Sure, it's time-boxed, but that may be the goal. Trading seeing "everything" new, for "plenty"
We are truly spreading the worst of humanity into the cosmos. Good job it's only us that appear able to witness it.
Defraying costs by using ads is a strawman. If you can't afford to do something, maybe don't do it. If you really, really want to do it, maybe ask yourself if the world genuinely needs what you're doing. If it does, find a way. If the only way you can do it is by selling advertising, you've taken as mis-step.
Media & journalism have been underpinned by advertising for over a century. Tons of educational and informative services are available to the public for free because of advertising. Sponsorship has built art galleries, hospital wings, research centers, etc.
In this case, there's a relatively innocuous logo on a robotic lander that is 230k miles away on a desolate rock. It's not like this is a billboard in a nature preserve.
> billboard in a nature preserve
Where's the line? Why shouldn't we put billboards in nature preserves?
Clearly they can afford to do what they just did.
Oh, you don't like how they raised money? Good, pay attention to something else, they aren't doing things for your approval.
They didn't do it for approval, but they sure as shit didn't ask for approval either.
And I'd like to see a breakdown of exactly how much the ad revenue contributed to payload delivery.
But, NASA is predominately displayed on all of the original moonshot crafts. That's an advertisement for that organization. . .
And, I'm 100% sure ego had nearly everything to do with the original space race. Beating the Russians and what-not. That seems, in hindsight, to be very ego driven?
Also, you say "It's all just egos and entertainment now." What do you think it was in 1969? Is "beat the Russians" somehow a more noble goal than "sell a product"?
Odd that.
“Besides NASA’s tech and navigation experiments, Intuitive Machines sold space on the lander to Columbia Sportswear to fly its newest insulating jacket fabric; sculptor Jeff Koons for 125 mini moon figurines; and Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University for a set of cameras to capture pictures of the descending lander.”
https://apnews.com/article/moon-landing-private-company-intu...
"The Odysseus moon lander is aiming for a 5:30 p.m. EST (2230 GMT) lunar landing"
https://www.space.com/intuitive-machines-odysseus-moon-landi...
https://www.intuitivemachines.com/im-1
There will be a live feed on the Intuitive Machines site above and mirrored on NASA TV+ here: https://plus.nasa.gov/scheduled-video/intuitive-machines-1-l...
The coverage on both live feeds will begin around 1400 CST.
But it is all about image I guess.
I use mostly Columbia gear for some pretty serious outdoor adventures, and generally consider their waterproof tech, especially outdry rain shells to be the best you can get at any price. However, I don't (and wouldn't) use any of their footwear.
For waterproof footwear, breathable membranes don't work well in my experience, they quickly tear and leak. The membranes are just too delicate for the forces and flexing on a boot. A really well built traditional leather boot with external waterproofing like Sno Seal applied daily is both more breathable, and more waterproof. Failing that, heavy rubber boots like commercial fisherman wear are really the only totally waterproof footwear.
As a European, we look at the regimes in the states you mentioned with the same disdain.
No way I would ever consider living there.
Are women not safe in these states? I'm not sure I'm picking up whatever you are implying.
1: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dobbs_v._Jackson_Women%27s_H....
One stat that jumps out is that infant death rates are way up. Forcing women to complete their term anyway is sadistic and completely unnecessary.
Something cannot be ignored by pointing at something else.
The World Health Organization claims a global rate of 4.3 mother deaths per 1000 live births in low income countries versus 1.2 deaths per 10,000 live births in high income countries [2].
[0] https://ldh.la.gov/page/pregnancy-risks
[1] ucsfhealth.org/conditions/high-risk-pregnancy
[2] https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/maternal-mo...
As a partner with a wife who went into septic shock, sepsis is no joke. I was given a 40% chance of her living through the night, which, thankfully she did. Doctors are understandably hesitant to perform an abortion because they could be held criminally liable if some court after the fact, with months of hindsight, may consider that the mother could have lived even if the baby was brought to term. So this is a no-win scenario all around and a terrible law from a party that claims to eschew any government overreach into personal lives.
America was never this regressive and tribal when I went to school there in the mid 80's til the 1990.
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/12/13/abortion-travel-ban-...
Something is very wrong in the USA.
I think I'll continue to draw "unreasonable" conclusions.
what does this mean?
See also: https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/05/us/texas-woman-high-risk-preg...
This woman in Texas having to sue to avoid a very dangerous birth of a child who will she will end up having to watch die within a few days.
> It states Cox’s OB-GYN, Dr. Damla Karsan, has a “good faith belief” that Cox falls under the legal exception to the abortion ban, but can’t provide the abortion without a court order because she “cannot risk loss of her medical license, life in prison, and massive civil fines” if her belief is not accepted by the courts.
So yes, Texas has an exception for births that would threaten the mother's life, but in practice doctors are justifiably petrified of betting their freedom on their assessment of that risk lining up with a bunch of medically ignorant theocrats' assessments.
https://publicportal-api.alappeals.gov/courts/68f021c4-6a44-...
I saw an interview with a political appointee in charge of exemptions, I believe in texas. He was a hardcore right-wing Christian republican strongly against abortion. He lasted a week. After seeing all the various horror stories, the stuff that obgyns learn of at school, he radically changed his mind and was asking to let doctors again make the decisions: "Please, I don't want to see any more of those ultrasounds."
There is no way to describe this other than religious crankery.
This is growing problem for military recruiters. Try telling a 17yo highschool girl that if she joins the army at 18 she may be posted to some random state where she may not have access to various forms of reproductive healthcare, where perhaps even contraception may soon be disallowed. Or tell a gay kid that he might be moved to a state where the return of sodomy laws is openly discussed in the legislature. Heck no. Even if the new laws are not as bad as reported, they are a significant factor for many young people.
And on the other side of US men are women, women are men, and nobody is anything and everything at the same time.
What a time to be alive.
But the emotional policies surrounding abortion in the US do not stem from their federal organization but rather roots in rather strong religious sentiments still more prevalent in the US than probably many other western countries.
In Switzerland abortion has been formally legal since about 2001.
This is America, so according to the current laws those states have the right to do that. I personally think it's wrong, and would never subject my daughter to that, but my only option is to vote with my money and my feet - so I don't go to conferences in those states, and will never live in those states.
“A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.” ― Winston S. Churchill
As a parting thought, I admire Nikolai Tesla, and Alan Turing. Tesla was suspected of being a communist and was in love with a pigeon. Turing was homosexual.
How do you think either of these legendary minds would have fared had they been born in and lived in Texas? Would they have survived to do what they did?
What would our world be like today if it had none of their publications or inventions?
I do agree with you though, that it's worth spending some R&D time on exploring outside the spaceship.
If move opened the possibility for a lucrative and rewarding career wouldn’t the trade off be worth it?
But I encountered a funny additional problem with that recently when talking to a European transplant which is: you need a car in the US. The US is huge and cheap and safe but you need a car. If you don't have a car you have to live within a subway system. Then it's not cheap/safe (pick one).
As a result, check your position in the happiness index and wonder if you, as a country, maybe fail your citizens. The only index where the US is leading is GDP, and that’s not a big factor in anyone’s life.
You can’t put a price on feeling safe. There are lots of tiktok and yt videos of expats living here who explain just that.
In Texas, there is a clear push to criminalize the act of going out of state to get an abortion.
Again, my concern is trying to figure out the statistically best way to navigate the various political landscapes and future political possibilities. It just seems too focused on one particular area of risk. I wouldn't categorically close out a good company / good career just because of this risk. This seems like the right place to recommend a hedge.
There's a reason why many companies who have offices here have offered relocation to employees so that they don't need to contend with these laws if/when they are enforced upon them.
But for 40% income tax, you would expect a hell of a lot more than what you're describing. Ironically the government could dramatically improve matters by interfering in your private life less, probably saving you money in the process as well.
And that completely glosses over there are demonstrably worse countries. North Korea, Eritrea, Russia, Uganda - for examples.
And there's also significantly better countries too. The Nordic countries come to mind.
And for the USA, try driving through rural America, Appalachia, any Native American reservation country.. hell, even inner cities. A few live it big, and the rest barely survive. It used to be better. Not now.
> But for 40% income tax, you would expect a hell of a lot more than what you're describing.
Exactly. I want democratic socialism. And the corporations have that here. The individuals? We get unabashed caveat emptor capitalism.
> Ironically the government could dramatically improve matters by interfering in your private life less, probably saving you money in the process as well.
Go away, libertarian. I am not one of you.
This is the shit you get when you let let libertarians run "government": https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/06/30/colorado-...
A little bit less anger is called for here. I'm not an American voter but this sort of thing is just a turn-off and pushes people away into the extremes.
Wanting lower taxes and more individual freedom != Randian libertarianism, in much the same way as wanting a better safety net != Marxism.
You complain about both abortion rights and paying 40% tax. Well, the state is spending some of those taxes to police your abortion rights. You can get two birds with one stone - either lower taxes or more spending on other things, and also stronger individual rights.
Fair enough, my apologies. However the "Ironically the government could dramatically improve matters by interfering in your private life less" is a direct libertarian dog whistle.
And my complaint about 40% tax isn't complaining about the tax per se, but that I want a proper social net for everyone. Instead, we're getting a social net for almost nobody.
The republican party is also joined at the hip with evangelical christians who would love to create a Margaret Atwood-ean Handmaid's Tale country... In fact, they're a good step there at the federal court level and most republican led states. This is definitely separated from taxes, since this is turning everyone into stasi-like informants. Reducing taxes is not going to reduce higher profile women being found guilty of "murder" over abortion.
Again, the better solutions here are to flea to a democratic state, or leave the country to a less shitty one. (Again, I reject the idea that all countries are roughly the same.)
No problem. I'm not American so there's little point in swaying me one way or the other.
I agree with you on pretty much all of it, but I don't think that my other statement was a libertarian dog whistle. It's just a policy that I think would work - the government is for running the justice system, defence, taking out the garbage, maybe a social safety net depending on who you ask, stuff like that. A little bit of libertarianism (certainly not all of it) is the perfect cure for a Handmaid's Tale scenario.
Just one last point - some countries are certainly much better than others. I'm from Africa, have lived in Europe, and now I live in Canada, which is the best of all in my opinion. The USA though is amazing and far ahead of the rest in many ways - the drawbacks have been discussed but all that economic and social freedom does not count for nothing. I think all advanced countries have something to offer to someone who's aligned the right way. For 40% tax you'd expect a whole lot of nice things though!
Yeah, it's a bummer that the majority of Space Software jobs are not remote friendly. You have to look really hard to find the ones that are. Some are because you have to actually physically be near the spacecraft to build and debug certain software or firmware but others are just because everyone else is doing that and it's harder for them to manage a small remote contingent.
Still, I hope that this can change in the future, the space industry misses out on a lot of good software talent because of it. Maybe with better visualization technologies like the Apple headset this'll be more possible.
There's probably valuable stuff on the moon and even if not, it's learning a load of things about going further afield. Lots of science fiction about the asteroid belt beyond mars.
While just landing on the moon is definitely much simpler than a Mars mission, this lander is a part of the Artemis program; it's one of the first steps towards developing the Artemis base camp on the moon.
Manned space missions are significantly more expensive (and complicated) than robotic missions. (Otherwise, we'd be sending a lot more people into space.)
Let's do a little bit of back-of-the-envelope Googling:
From https://www.planetary.org/space-policy/cost-of-apollo
> The United States spent $25.8 billion on Project Apollo between 1960 and 1973, or approximately $257 billion when adjusted for inflation to 2020 dollars.
From https://www.planetary.org/space-policy/cost-of-the-mars-expl....
> The Mars Exploration Rover (MER) mission cost $1.08 billion. Of that amount, $744 million was spent on spacecraft development and launch; $335.8 million was spent on 15 years of mission operations.
So it looks like "manned" space missions cost at least 100x the cost of sending a robot.
Mars is orders of magnitude harder to land on because of its atmosphere, stronger gravity, and the need to keep your robot healthy on the long trip over.
“EagleCam to record lunar landing
Just before landing, at approximately 30 m (98 ft) above the lunar surface, the Odysseus lander will eject the EagleCam camera-equipped CubeSat, which will drop onto the lunar surface near the lander, with an impact velocity of about 10 m/s (22 mph). From the surface the EagleCam will attempt to capture the first third-person images of a lunar landing. The EagleCam will use a Wi-Fi connection to the Odysseus lander to relay its images back to Earth.”
That CubeSat is student built. I wonder what camera they have and how hard it will be to make it record the landing. Will it orient itself during that six-ish second drop or can it move the camera after landing? Does it have a fisheye lens to increase the likelihood of the lander being in its field of vision?
Unfortunately, their project page (https://erau.edu/eaglecam) seems to be light on such details.
The EIRP is 4 watts in 2.4 GHz band. More than enough to wipe out your neighbors. Also more than enough to get absolutely tremendous range in line of sight conditions.
I can purchase and install an unlimited number of 2.4 GHz Part 15 devices, rendering the band useless to anyone so long as I am attempting to use those devices in a manner consistent with their application. As another Part 15 user, you have no recourse. If a licensed user complains to the FCC, they may decide I have to stop using them and notify me as such. Note: one of my neighbors does this, by having an AP on every 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz channel.
Newest Wifi 6 stuff in the US has a power limit on some spectrum and some usages, but nowhere near as low as what I was hoping for.
Sounds like a fun and ethical excuse to DOS some WIFI routers.
You can pedantically criticize the use of the word “sabotage”, but then you’d be entirely missing the point.
In practice, it's going to be noiser down here, because of all the sources down here.
But that was 6 years ago and since I've moved up to Oregon, I havnt gotten to do much ham stuff because I could never hit the repeaters around here. Maybe they are no longer up, maybe its all the hills and volcanic rock?
Meteor scatter is pretty fun though!
So, I guessed (see below) you’d need power to make the sat orient itself.
However, I googled a bit more, and found this: https://mynews13.com/fl/orlando/space/2024/02/21/embry-riddl..., which says:
“EagleCam will be spring ejected from the Nova-C class lander Odysseus about 30 meters above the lunar surface during the final descent. It will take three images a second from each of its three cameras (a total of nine images a second), capturing its six-second freefall to the surface and Odysseus’ descent and soft landing. About an hour after landing, our team will receive the five images of our choosing. During descent, Dr. Henderson and I will be timing events in landing sequence to match to image numbers to choose the first five images we bring back to Earth. Once we have those images, I will post them directly to @eraueaglecam on Instagram. Shortly after that, they will also be available on @spacetechnologieslab on Instagram and @SpaceTechLab on X (formerly Twitter).”
So, it isn’t a 360 camera, and they’re making 50-ish images and hoping for the best. Doesn’t look like the sat has rockets or that they’re trying to make it possible to make more photos after impact on the moon.
If my guesses/intuition is right we won’t see the actual touchdown (still cool to have anything, of course), but corrections welcome.
Selfie stick sounds simpler.
Our student group drove down to Cape Canaveral to pick up and haul a clean room back to the university that NASA donated for use to build the satellite. I will never forget those experiences.
The team will try to release EagleCam in the coming days, so it can photograph the lander from roughly 26 feet (8 meters) away.
https://web.archive.org/web/20220725003858/https://www.space...
Like antartica, I'm sure someone with guns will tell us who really owns the moon as soon as it actually becomes relevant.
> "The [Odyssus] Nova-C Lander is a tall hexagonal cylinder on 6 landing legs. It is capable of carrying 100 to 130 kg of payload to the surface. It uses solar panels to generate 200 W of power on the surface. Propulsion and landing use liquid methane as fuel and liquid oxygen as an oxidizer. The PRIME-1 mission has two primary components, The Regolith and Ice Drill for Exploring New Terrain (TRIDENT) and the Mass Spectrometer observing lunar operations (MSolo). TRIDENT is an augering drill approximately 1 meter long. The drill is able to stop at any depth as commanded from the ground and deposit and deposit its sample on the surface for analysis. MSolo is a commercial off the shelf (COTS) mass spectrometer modified for spaceflight and lunar operations. Total PRIME-1 payload mass is about 40 kg."
https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/nmc/spacecraft/display.action?id...
So the first non-government device to land on moon will be viewed trying to land by a device also non-government (but part of the lander) that lands on the moon first? I guess that evens out.
(via https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39468115, but no comments there)
https://www.nasa.gov/commercial-lunar-payload-services/
https://www.nasa.gov/missions/artemis/clps/intuitive-machine...
But won't we soon have a real fake moon landing?
What a world.
Note: some people have an opposite opinion, that the interesting stuff starts at Season 3.
Some shows are like that - I didn't think Star Trek Deep Space Nine was all that hot first time around, appreciated it much more years later on a rewatch (the supporting characters are awesome). Maybe in part it's adjusted expectations ;-).
Reuters: See the right part of the image https://imgur.com/VpGAIBl
CNN: https://imgur.com/TzRtit8
AP News: https://imgur.com/OgrtzrC
NBC: Not so apparent but there https://imgur.com/7itvGeh
NYT: Also not obvious https://imgur.com/4DMDqr0
NPR: Gotta scroll: https://imgur.com/dp5UDCq
I found it on Fox News by search and it's a fair scroll down. I also found in MSNBC by search, but actually don't know where it is just that the word "moon" exists somewhere on that page and for the life of me I cannot see what word is highlighted.