I remember when it initially debuted and the best thing about it was they were offering a $49/mo lease. Now, I'm a militant "you should own your car, never lease" guy, but even I was tempted. That was just a stupidly ridiculous good deal. Wonder if they'll bring that back too (I won't hold my breath).
Dunno about that... My criteria was a bit different than the "on paper" stats:
1) Had normal instrumentation and control systems inside. No spaceship tech features.
2) Reliability and build quality cannot be compromised.
3) Strong dealership network with readily available parts and trained technicians.
Fast charge rate and long road trip worthiness doesn't matter to me because I don't do that. It's absolutely peppy and will put down the power when you need it for a quick merge or highway on ramp. Overall incredibly happy with this car.
I'd also say it's objectively one of the worst EVs on the market, and as far as the dealership network and technicians go, perhaps only if you can get a Toyota service center to work on it. It's not really a Subaru at all, it's a rebadged Toyota bZ4X, best-known for the "its wheels fall off" stop-sale recall in 2022.
Yes the range is limited. That's on purpose. It's intended to be a city car, not a freeway cruising road-tripper. We don't all need to be lugging around a 100kWh battery for our typical 30mi of driving per day.
I believe Stellantis is adopting the NACS (aka Tesla Supercharger compatible) plug. That turns this into a more practical car in case of emergency or if you need to make an occasional longer trip.
Everyone shops for the edge case - what if I need to drive from Maine to San Diego, or what if I need to buy three rooms worth of drywall? The answer obviously is just rent an ICE for those rarer occasions. But obviously if you’re a drywaller or a courier, buy something different to begin with.
The problem is that oft repeated advice it makes those edge cases so much more painful, to the point where they might just not get done. Like, have you tried renting a Home Depot truck? The last one I rented was barely roadworthy.
That’s not really fair. 99.9% of the Home Depot trucks are perfectly fine.
The real problem with renting a Hone Depot truck is that the reservations are based on expected availability. You made a reservation and you told them how long you expect to have the truck. But so did the person before you. There is no penalty for being wrong. It’s just an hourly cost and you pay for however long you keep it. Keep it overnight if you want to. Keep it for a few days. If you’ve ever read the fine print (you do read the fine print, right?), it will list a maximum rental charge. If you keep it long enough to hit that mark, they give you the title once you’ve paid the bill!
This is all fantastic once you are in possession of the Home Depot truck. But you can never count on it being there when you want it. Imagine that your local store has three trucks and 3 reservations for 2pm. You can call them up before leaving the house and they’ll tell you there are trucks at the store. You arrive in the parking lot and see a truck parked in the parking lot. You then buy all your stuff and walk over to the rental counter and there’s no truck anymore. One of the other people with the 2pm reservations already took it, and the person with the 1pm reservation isn’t back yet.
Yeah, the logistics around renting are definitely another issue. But that awful truck is just seared in my memory. No idea if it was representative, I haven't rented another since.
Motivation to get over the activation energy hump for doing big projects is a precious resource, and every bit of logistics eats a big chunk of that.
$32k USD starting is not what I would call affordable. Even the Nissan Leaf starts lower. This car is honestly a bit of a joke in the US markets even for a small, simple commuter you can do much better here in the EV space. A used 2018 leaf would get more range, charge faster and cost less.
Why wouldn't you just get a Model 3 for that price? It's just much better tech, more fun, much better range and probably has better resale value down the road. Not a fan of the CEO for sure, but it seems like there are worlds between the specs and just very little additional $.
Compared to the Model 3, the Leaf offers seats-down cargo space that’s larger and less restrictive (hatch vs. trunk) despite being significantly smaller (~185” vs ~176”). Despite the 500e being smaller yet at 143”, its cargo space isn’t that much smaller than that of the Model 3 and also isn’t subject to the restrictions of a trunk since it’s a hatch.
Of course not everybody is looking for compactness or better ratios of external size to cargo space but for those who are, there are better options than a Model 3.
I rewrote this comment because I think the angle I had initially was wrong. While I think it will struggle in the US/Canadian market, in the EU I think it will be popular.
It also does have CarPlay, which I was incorrect about. Commenter below was kind enough to point that out.
I got to test drive one of these. It's such a fun little car to drive, albeit not that responsive or fast. If you just needed a little runabout it would be perfect for that.
In Australia these cost just under 70K AUD. The interior is very nice, and quite spacious for what it is. There is a lot of leather that looks and feels good.
If I didn't need to occasionally do long distance (150km+) it would have been a contender, but at its asking price, cheaper options like the MG-4 and GWM Ora are much better value.
Seems really expensive given when these were last in the USA they were offering $99 a month leases for 36 months, and you got the tax credits as though this was a purchased vehicle which nearly covered all of the monthly lease payments.
I don't think there are many places in the world where cars are as cheap as in the USA. The prices in Australia also include taxes and fees, which I don't think is a practice in the states.
Is it going to be California only, like the last model they had? There is clearly demand for low cost, medium range EVs for commute all over the country, yet this kind of cars are only available in California for some reason.
I’m looking at leasing one of these because I don’t need a whole lot of car, since I don’t commute — mostly I just need a grocery-grabber, and it’s one of the handful of EVs that’s small enough to fit in my somewhat undersized garage while still leaving ample room to move around the car.
We really need more Honda Fit type EVs… think small, cheap, and high utility, but the way things are looking the next several years will continue the endless stream of scarcely distinguishable midrange-and-up SUVs with the odd luxury sedan.
It’s close-ish but about 5” longer. Might consider with a good lease deal, but the high number of recalls on Hyundai/Kia vehicles is concerning. Have read they’re also more expensive to insure.
Hyundai/Kia just makes the news because it’s trendy. Our 2020 Hyundai is the most reliable vehicle we’ve owned.
All of our other vehicles have comparable level of recalls. In fact, our Ford currently has a recall because the rear axle bolts are at risk of sheering off. Major issue, but not something that makes headline news.
Kia is getting close, but they still refuse to break the $30k barrier. The floodgates to EV adoption will open for the first manufacturer to sell 60kwH+ for a true sticker price under $25k. That's enough range with a payment right at the edge of affordability for most Anericans.
Strongly agree. Of course, it’ll also help if dealers actually stock base models (very common for them to only stock mid-trims and up) and don’t sandbag them with massive markups.
The way the government incentives work for imports you have to lease rather than buy to get the good price. But you can lease the Kona EV, Toyota bz4x and its sister the Solterra for under $200 a month.
We are already there if you include used EVs. For people who already have an ICE vehicle, something with 25-30 usable kwh for <$10k is totally viable and attainable.
"Brings back" is funny, US market centric. They've had the revamped electric one in Europe since 2021. They stopped exporting to the US in 2019 or so. Now they're bringing it back to the US.
P.s. I hate linking to [what I perceive as to be] another stereotypically "privileged" guy's website, but it was the original place I learned of this mass-manipulation phenomenon.
To be clear, some of his writing is good but what he stands and represents doesn't vibe with me. Yet I'm still in HN, fml.
Is it a submarine if it doesn’t hide the ball? If the topic is right there in the headline, isn’t it more of an aircraft carrier rather than a submarine?
Cars are one of those things that make Americans think backwards, and global markets don't exist anymore when some people talk about them.
I saw a lot of commentary when they stopped importing Fiats that Americans don't want a car in that size. It's still one of the most popular cars in San Francisco, despite the fact that they haven't sold it here new in 5 years. But we don't want that kind of car. They tell us that and we don't get nice things which are popular because we don't want them..
Not to be confused with the other ABC https://www.abc.net.au/, which is Australian centric. It is weird that I now have to think about when I see the acronym, 20 years ago I would have seen it immediately as the ABC in the states, but broadcast TV plays so little role in our life now.
And it was posted on the forums for a US company that requires its client startups work locally out of its US office. I'm puzzled by people surprised to encounter US-centric perspectives, here.
Hasn't this been known for months now? We need them to bring back the gasoline version.. nobody wants an electric car with poor mileage, no matter how cute it is.
I do - if it's cheap. 99% of my driving is < 30km.
I'd love to have a small electric car that costs little to buy, little to run, and deals with the vast majority my trips, and have a second car with longer range for the rare times I do long trips.
"Long" for me is to the beach, which is about 100km away, so say 250km round trip range would be excellent - which this car almost does.
But the base price on this seems disproportionately high.
VW has sold a million or so eGolfs which had similar range numbers in the latter years.
150 miles is enough for someone who has a 30 mile round trip commute to drive a full work week without doing any charging. 150 mi range is enough for many city drivers to go weeks between charges, or make a trip out of the city for a day/weekend.
Repeat after me: "what I want is not necessarily what others want."
I want car privacy to be a top feature mentioned for every vehicle. Every time I see integrations with service x, y or z, I don't think convenience, I think privacy nightmare.
65 comments
[ 2.3 ms ] story [ 122 ms ] threadLove the car, didn't mind the price, but wow these things are at a discount.
1) Had normal instrumentation and control systems inside. No spaceship tech features.
2) Reliability and build quality cannot be compromised.
3) Strong dealership network with readily available parts and trained technicians.
Fast charge rate and long road trip worthiness doesn't matter to me because I don't do that. It's absolutely peppy and will put down the power when you need it for a quick merge or highway on ramp. Overall incredibly happy with this car.
Edit: formatting
Everyone shops for the edge case - what if I need to drive from Maine to San Diego, or what if I need to buy three rooms worth of drywall? The answer obviously is just rent an ICE for those rarer occasions. But obviously if you’re a drywaller or a courier, buy something different to begin with.
The real problem with renting a Hone Depot truck is that the reservations are based on expected availability. You made a reservation and you told them how long you expect to have the truck. But so did the person before you. There is no penalty for being wrong. It’s just an hourly cost and you pay for however long you keep it. Keep it overnight if you want to. Keep it for a few days. If you’ve ever read the fine print (you do read the fine print, right?), it will list a maximum rental charge. If you keep it long enough to hit that mark, they give you the title once you’ve paid the bill!
This is all fantastic once you are in possession of the Home Depot truck. But you can never count on it being there when you want it. Imagine that your local store has three trucks and 3 reservations for 2pm. You can call them up before leaving the house and they’ll tell you there are trucks at the store. You arrive in the parking lot and see a truck parked in the parking lot. You then buy all your stuff and walk over to the rental counter and there’s no truck anymore. One of the other people with the 2pm reservations already took it, and the person with the 1pm reservation isn’t back yet.
Motivation to get over the activation energy hump for doing big projects is a precious resource, and every bit of logistics eats a big chunk of that.
This should be good for an average commute in an urban area.
Side note tho, remember when the high end cars had below 100 mile range?
Of course not everybody is looking for compactness or better ratios of external size to cargo space but for those who are, there are better options than a Model 3.
It also does have CarPlay, which I was incorrect about. Commenter below was kind enough to point that out.
This juices their mpg to meet requirements.
In Australia these cost just under 70K AUD. The interior is very nice, and quite spacious for what it is. There is a lot of leather that looks and feels good.
If I didn't need to occasionally do long distance (150km+) it would have been a contender, but at its asking price, cheaper options like the MG-4 and GWM Ora are much better value.
We really need more Honda Fit type EVs… think small, cheap, and high utility, but the way things are looking the next several years will continue the endless stream of scarcely distinguishable midrange-and-up SUVs with the odd luxury sedan.
All of our other vehicles have comparable level of recalls. In fact, our Ford currently has a recall because the rear axle bolts are at risk of sheering off. Major issue, but not something that makes headline news.
https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/honda-jazz-fit-2017...
A "brings back (to the US market)" or something would go along way.
* Or similar media manipulation.
https://paulgraham.com/submarine.html
P.s. I hate linking to [what I perceive as to be] another stereotypically "privileged" guy's website, but it was the original place I learned of this mass-manipulation phenomenon.
To be clear, some of his writing is good but what he stands and represents doesn't vibe with me. Yet I'm still in HN, fml.
I saw a lot of commentary when they stopped importing Fiats that Americans don't want a car in that size. It's still one of the most popular cars in San Francisco, despite the fact that they haven't sold it here new in 5 years. But we don't want that kind of car. They tell us that and we don't get nice things which are popular because we don't want them..
The article also explicitly says it has been available in Europe for four years.
I'd love to have a small electric car that costs little to buy, little to run, and deals with the vast majority my trips, and have a second car with longer range for the rare times I do long trips.
"Long" for me is to the beach, which is about 100km away, so say 250km round trip range would be excellent - which this car almost does.
But the base price on this seems disproportionately high.
150 miles is enough for someone who has a 30 mile round trip commute to drive a full work week without doing any charging. 150 mi range is enough for many city drivers to go weeks between charges, or make a trip out of the city for a day/weekend.
Repeat after me: "what I want is not necessarily what others want."
Tesla Model 3 base model sells for $39k and gives you 270 miles.