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Ask HN: I'm an MIT senior and still unemployed – and so are most of my friends

215 points by MITthrow123 ↗ HN
I'm a senior at MIT studying Course 6 (EECS), and I'm graduating soon with no job lined up. I've applied to tons of places, done interviews, built side projects, but nothing has landed—and it's not just me. A lot of my classmates, some of the smartest and hardest-working people I know, are also unemployed or under incredible stress trying to figure things out.

It's honestly demoralizing. I came to MIT hoping to build a better life—not just for myself, but for my family. Now I’m facing the very real possibility of moving back home to an unstable and abusive environment while continuing to job hunt. The thought alone is crushing. I’ve even considered staying for an MEng just to avoid going home, but I’m completely burnt out and have no thesis direction. MIT gave me freedom, food security, friends, a bed of my own for the first time. It changed everything. But now that graduation’s here, it feels like it’s all slipping away.

If you've been through something similar—late job search success, unexpected turns that worked out, or just any advice—I’d really appreciate it. What helped you push through when it felt like the system failed you?

Thanks for reading.

246 comments

[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 385 ms ] thread
Aurornis
Truly sorry you feel this way. For what it’s worth, this was common for people graduating into the 2008 financial crisis, too. It’s actually unusual that we went for so long without another period of contraction.

From last time around: The people who kept pushing and took any job, anywhere turned out okay. This translated to a lot of people taking jobs below what they expected to get or having to move when they didn’t want to, but it was ultimately temporary.

The people I knew who turned cynical, let negativity take the wheel, and checked out of the job market struggled much harder to get back in.

You’re early in your career. This current period of turmoil doesn’t mean that much, even though it feels like everything right now. Keep at it, work a little harder than your competition, and put a little more care into your applications and it will work out. Stay away from the doom spirals on Reddit or Blind. Uninstall those apps (and others) if they’re making you worse.

qazxcvbnmlp
+1 to this. If I go look at social media the job market is ending. But if I look at the signals around me there's plenty of opportunities.

Also consider taking something below (or even much below) expectations. It's much easier to work your way up with connections than it is to get in the door with no references.

laidoffamazon
MIT students expect (not unfairly) to work at Jane Street/HRT/Jump/Citadel Securities/OpenAI/Anthropic and then "settle" for Google or Facebook. They're not going to work for Fidelity or Raytheon.
fragmede
That's a bit of a charcacture of Course 6 at MIT. Course 10 is chemical engineering and plenty of them go into industry at all the major oil companies. Lots of MIT students go into aerospace and defense (Lincoln Labs is directly federally funded) and MIT holds a yearly Soldier Design Competition that also helps students go for SBIRs. Raytheon is a big hirer of course 2 (MechE) MIT grads.
quadragenarian
As someone who's worked at Lincoln Labs, I do wonder if the poster here has considered this. Although, it is worth noting that LL requires citizenship for many/most of its divisions.
FilosofumRex
That's only true of the ones on ROTC or similar military related programs, everyone else goes straight to Wall Street, big tech, or MBB or med school.

At the annual Fall job fair, 80% of students queue up to less than 10% of employers. Most companies never show up because it's simply not worth the cost and time to try to recruit spoiled brats of MIT

vonneumannstan
Most MIT Mech E grads work at Boeing. Most Chem Es work at Exxon, Merck and Intel. Most Aero Astros are at Boeing. Etc. Etc. You just aren't accurate.
laidoffamazon
I find this specious - why would they do that when this is basically the composition of the MechE, AeroE, and ChemE (except no Intel for ChemE, we send our EEs to intel) at my public school undergrad?

Why would they work with people that they perceive to be beneath them and have worked far less hard than them?

vonneumannstan
>Why would they work with people that they perceive to be beneath them and have worked far less hard than them?

Because you aren't actually modeling their thinking correctly?

laidoffamazon
Perhaps I don't. I don't know why someone would expend 100x the effort and be labeled at minimum 10x the person by MIT admissions to end up at the same place that people with 1350 SATs from Auburn or 1450's from NC State or 1420 from Binghamton would go to after graduating MechE.
mlhpdx
So I was accepted to MIT long, long ago and couldn’t afford to go and ended up at an (excellent) state school. If I’d gone to MIT I would be the same person right? Stereotypes don’t work, and never have — see people, not labels.
laidoffamazon
It's about being able to get in, not going. You're a superior human to people like me despite going to a state school.
carabiner
MIT kids get part time jobs waiting tables or working retail while in school, just like other college kids. My first job out of college was non-elite aircraft manufacturer... guy on my left was MIT, on my right was CalTech.
laidoffamazon
> MIT kids get part time jobs waiting tables or working retail while in school

I seriously doubt that. This doesn't fit the class they come from. Maybe it would have in 1985 but not today.

FilosofumRex
I absolutely second that - MIT students of 70's, 80's and even early 90's were from different social class, demographics and personality types, than todays students.

Today, MIT is nothing but a shadow of its better known academic cartel up the Mass ave. Those who hire MIT students know that and plan accordingly. The only reason to hire MIT students is for branding propaganda, you get nothing more from them.

TYPE_FASTER
I get why they might have a certain expectation. It kinda depends on the job market. The guy in the cube next to me at Fidelity had a degree from MIT.
fatnoah
As an MIT reject (technically waitlisted), my very first post-graduation job was at Raytheon and much later in life, I ended up at Facebook, where I managed a team that had several engineers that joined directly from MIT. While I can't speak to the entire MIT grad cohort, fFacebook was the first-choice for everyone in this particular group.
laidoffamazon
Facebook is still much higher status than Amazon or IBM or any other company the people from my undergrad join after college
johnnyanmac
> But if I look at the signals around me there's plenty of opportunities.

The signals around me in LA are pretty damn bad. several friends laid off, many others worried about layoffs, and a very weak pulse on the market in terms of roles. I still have part time work but who knows for how much longer at this rate?

At this point I'm fine taking up anything that pays and doesn't potentially sent my 8 YO car into retirement even faster.

giantg2
What signals are you seeing?

The ones I've seen aren't good. I see some jobs in companies with shitty pay or shitty culture (my bar is not high). It dies look like the past 6 months have been better than the previous year or so. But overall, it looks pretty dim. I'm getting PIP'd soon. I am expecting that I will likely lose my job. If that happens, I'm expecting that I will end up as a Walmart greeter. As someone with a disability, I expect my application will go right in the trash if I answer yes or blank on the disability question. Or get fired if I mark no and then do need accommodations.

nyarlathotep_
Exactly this.

I'm desperately looking for a new job. I hate my current job, the constant stress is taking a real toll, and I'm more tired than I've been ever before.

I'm quite literally applying to all sorts of developer jobs that I'm well overqualified for, in any honest assessment, for a lot less than I make now. These roles are far from "premium" gigs. I've no diva expectations or hope at this point.

The only places I even get rejection emails from are places I've had a referral.

Things are bleak.

I'm in a similar place wrt job "security."

Current gig will end soon, one way or another, and the future doesn't look great.

marcuskane2
> As someone with a disability, I expect my application will go right in the trash if I answer yes or blank on the disability question

That's an interesting hypothesis.

I've seen many people suggest just the opposite- pretending to have a mild disability when filling in the form so that they get the boost from companies which use recruiting software that prioritizes diversity and inclusiveness in candidate pool.

Federal contractors are explicitly required to "take affirmative action to recruit, hire, promote and retain" people with disabilities, with a target of at least 7% of their employees be from that group. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/odep/program-areas/employers/fe...

freedomben
Indeed. I found myself unemployed and having a very hard time finding work after the '08 crash. My newly minted degree turned out to be worthless in that environment. It worked out for the best as I took a low paying job as a technician that at least let me make enough money to pay the rent and buy food while I continued building up skills. It's a raw deal and it's not fair, but the only thing you can control is yourself. Try to keep a positive attitude and understand that it won't be this way forever.
jaylaal
Also keep talking to people, since you never know when and where opportunities will come from.

This environment reminds me of the one I faced graduating into the 2001-2003 post-Dotcom Bust market.

giraffe_lady
> You’re early in your career. This current period of turmoil doesn’t mean that much

Is that true? I seem to remember data showing that the 2008-2010 graduate cohorts never overall caught up to the ones that came immediately before or after them.

Like sure sure OP has an engineering degree from MIT they're more like the ones that did catch up. But I'll bet there are a lot more people reading this who are about to graduate with degrees from perfectly adequate state schools and I'm not sure this unalloyed optimism is exactly correct for them. I don't think it turned out to be for their 2008 predecessors.

Aurornis
It doesn’t mean much in the course of an entire career.

Comparing to other cohorts isn’t useful because you can’t pick your cohort. You are born into one timeline and you play the hand you’re dealt.

There’s a lot of research that people who graduate into bad job markets are more cautious and less risk taking which can make them look like they’re behind peers who are more risk hungry when the market is up. I wouldn’t be surprised if it also makes them come out ahead in periods where the market is down.

dehrmann
I suspect what really happens is you're set back a few years compared to someone with more fortunate timing. In a away, this is never catching up, but framing it as a setback gives a better picture of what happens.
giraffe_lady
My path into this career was completely different so I have no first hand experience either way. But my observation has been that you don't really get to just hang around for a couple years then pick up where you left off. When the job market picks back up the new grad jobs go to new grads, which you aren't, quite, anymore.

It's a more difficult path and people navigate it but I don't think everyone does if you see what I mean. I think some of who should be our colleagues are simply missing because they did what they had to to pay bills in 2010 and never made it in here.

tarentel
I graduated in this time period and that makes sense. I definitely didn't start doing what I wanted until some time later. I guess in a sense that makes my career overall a few years behind resume wise but at this point, being in the industry 15 years instead of 17 probably isn't going to move the needle too much in terms of salary but who knows. Either way, at this point in time, I don't feel like I've missed out really.

Also, I graduated from a pretty mediocre state school. I'm by no means starving.

giraffe_lady
Yeah fwiw I think the ones that managed to get and stay in the industry are doing ok now. I had in mind someone I knew who graduated in 2008 with a CS degree from a state school and needed work immediately, took a helpdesk job, then took the promotions into mid-management, now is a starbucks district manager making like 95k. Never did get to realize that dream of coding professionally.

I believe he finally gave up studying & interviewing for junior dev jobs in 2016. At that point why take a "stale" graduate when you can just get an actual 22 year old from the same school, seems to have been everyone's reasoning.

I saw a similar thing a bunch when teaching at a code school ca 2018 too. It was a great move if you had savings or support for 6-18 months of job search. The ones that got in are still doing ok. But a lot didn't, they had to keep working at what they did before "temporarily" while interviewing and most of them are still doing exactly that.

So idk, I'm not sure how you would even get numbers on this. How many people would have excelled in this work if they had graduated at a different time, or with more support, but they didn't and they simply aren't here.

hn_throwaway_99
> From last time around: The people who kept pushing and took any job, anywhere turned out okay. This translated to a lot of people taking jobs below what they expected to get or having to move when they didn’t want to, but it was ultimately temporary.

I'm going to challenge this as you didn't give specific data to back it up. I read an article recently that did have data, and it made the argument that first jobs, and first salaries, tend to be remarkably "sticky". That is, if you are desperate for a job out of college so take one that causes you to be underemployed and underpaid, that doesn't just stick with you for your first job, but data showed that people were underemployed and underpaid for at least a decade after college.

The advice in this article was to hold out as long as possible for a desirable job, which meant a ton of networking, taking internships if possible, and also possibly additional schooling.

Apologies for not having the article on hand, but here's another one I found in 30 seconds of googling that makes the same argument, with research:

https://www.highereddive.com/news/half-of-graduates-end-up-u...

hysan
This sounds correct? I think I’m living evidence of it. The sad reality is that sometimes you can’t hold out long enough and you just gotta take what puts a roof over your head and food on the table. Everyone graduating now just got unlucky with when they were born.

Edit: that said, I think the majority of what the parent wrote is good. Esp the part about negativity. That hits hard and is good to be aware of.

johnnyanmac
well anecdotes are anecdotes. But tech tends to be much less sticky in this regard. And west coast much less sticky than east coast. My first job was 28/hr and the next roll almost tripled to 120k base 3 years later. It does partially mean hustling in some regards (be it on portfolio or leetcode), but when tech needs workers, they care a lot less about your piece of paper.

But then again, we are definietly not in times of normalcy. If nothing changes quick we may all be losing our spending power.

giantg2
Joke's on them - I didn't have much to spend in the first place.
taurath
The stats bear this out, but you can usually pivot to something better, especially if you have the skillset and drive to continuously up your skillset and find parts of industry that are in demand. It’s the companies where you learn nothing where you stagnate.

I doubt there’ll be a shortage of ML jobs in the next few years, unless somehow the AI industry completely collapses somehow.

hn_throwaway_99
This makes a lot of sense to me. The stats basically say that "if you start out underemployed, you stay underemployed for a long time", but my guess is the causation isn't necessarily as it's implied (or, indeed, as I implied it in my first comment).

That is, I think it's likely that a lot of people who start out unemployed are just comparatively less motivated, less aggressive, "go-with-the-flow"-type people. These folks do better when the market is good and worse when it's bad. But, as you put it, someone with a lot of drive and the skillset is not necessarily doomed to be held back for years if their first job sucks, as long as they set their sights on getting ahead quickly and don't let their stagnant environment rub off on them.

ethbr1
> The advice in this article was to hold out as long as possible for a desirable job, which meant a ton of networking, taking internships if possible, and also possibly additional schooling.

Emphasis on the next actions to take.

Being in a graduating cohort affords you certain opportunities -- internships, career fairs, faculty-connected networking.

Post-graduation, and especially post-college, people don't have these same opportunities.

Fwiw, I'd lean very heavily into interning. Take an internship at the best company you can, that's likely to have solid financials and be hiring when you finish the internship.

Intern -> hire is a ridiculous cheat code for your first "in industry" job.

The employer decreases the risk of making a mistake on an unproven new grad. You get a job offer if you do enough solid work. Win/win.

Worst case (no job offer), you should push really hard for a solid recommendation letter from your direct or second level manager.

hn_throwaway_99
Completely agree on internships. I really think universities that have an integrated co-op program, like Northeastern or Drexel, are much better for the significant majority of students than just a "standard" liberal arts or even an engineering degree.
giantg2
I agree. I'm still feeling the effects of lowballing myself to get any job.
ioulaum
Recessions aside, it may be that because they were forced to choose a bad job, and stuck there too long because of insecurity... Their trajectory was changed.

Which may just mean that they need to stay focused on self-improvement and job hopping as possible.

carabiner
I don't think it was that bad. I graduated 12/2008 in aerospace engineering from a big state school. Not MIT. We all had at least 1 offer from big companies, even the middling students. I had 2 offers, and probably could have swung a third. It felt like the recession mostly affected the housing market and older career folks, but for us new grads things were mostly normal. This feels like a permanent shift due to AI in part, and interest rates going back up since pandemic.
gedy
2008 wasn't that bad for tech, but 2001 was and might be better comparison.
billy99k
Yeah, I agree with you here. Most of the people I know in tech got laid off in 2001 due to startups failing. I think the only person I knew that made it through worked for Yahoo.
antisthenes
> It felt like the recession mostly affected the housing market and older career folks, but for us new grads things were mostly normal.

Yeah, they weren't. You were in a STEM bubble, which back in 2008 probably was the only bubble that could still get jobs "the old way", without going through application hell.

Also, the job market was way worse in 09-10 than it was in 2008, especially first half of 2008.

tmaly
It was the same for me in the 2001 dotcom crash. It was incredibly hard to find work.
energyguy78
Same boat here, was before all the headhunter sites
foobahify
Same in 2001. Took 8 months to get my first job. I started the hunt after graduation to avoid job interviews interfering with study (an 1 hr interview would be a 1 day affair with commuting).

Had I got a job before I graduated that company may well have gone bust or laid people off anyway.

Had some bad interviews including being beaten by a other candidate on a job writing access databases for a 1 person business, and a job where they said they interview girls to see what they look like (not a girl but was disgusted... I carried on the process anyway because need $)

hysan
Anecdata to try and level expectations. As someone who *eventually* came out of that era fine, it wasn’t without hardship. Expect to graduate without a job. Expect to continue the grind for many many months. Expect to get rejected not for not meeting the bar, but for not exceeding everyone else who also passed that bar. Expect to very likely settle for a job that doesn’t meet the expectations that college (and the previous 10+ years of history) sold you on. Expect that financially, you will end up years behind the curve and that many life plans (ex: home ownership if that’s one of your goals) will be delayed. Expect that you will meet many people younger than you who will be at your financial level because they graduated post-recovery.

If you can accept that you just happen to be born at the wrong time, you will be in a better place mentally than where I was at for a long time. I won’t say it’s easy; it will suck. But it is possible to make it out ok. I luckily had some financial and emotional support from my family to keep me going. I don’t know your situation but hopefully you are able to find support too. I wish you the best of luck.

giantg2
"Expect that you will meet many people younger than you who will be at your financial level because they graduated post-recovery."

Yep, the people who graduated about 3-4 years ago are all making more than I do after more than a decade. It seems like that's just how it works.

swagmoney69
Huh. This is making me realize that perhaps my situation is more bizarre and unstable than I realize...

How uncommon is it for someone with no highschool diploma (GED), or college diploma to get a job as a software engineer at a Fortune 500 company? Am I completely fucked if I ever lose this job? It's my second SE job...

Like OP may have been hinting at, I had a really fucked up family situation and this path was the only one that I could take- should I plan on going back to school just for future job market security?

r14c
I'm in a similar boat. I dropped out of uni for reasons (a bit of a story, I can tell it if you buy me a beer) and ended up making a career out of software engineering.

The main thing to do IMO is spend time building a network. A recommendation in the right place at the right time can open doors that would otherwise be closed to you.

School is an option, but the opportunity cost has been too high so far for me. Though doing a freelance PhD thesis probably wouldn't hurt.

mattmanser
I wouldn't worry too much, 20 years ago when I entered the industry (with a philosophy degree), the adverts which emphasised degree pedigree over experience were common.

I have watched that diminish over the last 20 years.

The unspoken secret in programming is that a CS degree basically signals absolutely nothing about programming skill. You can get a 1st in CS and be a rubbish programmer, you can get a chemistry degree and be an amazing one. A lot of CS is utterly irrelevant to programming, and the vast majority of programming skills are not covered by CS degree.

Once you're past 2-3 years experience it stops being relevant, before that it's a way to filter CVs by managers who want to pretend their CS degree wasn't a complete waste of time.

If they're asking for a CS degree for a senior role it's basically advertising they're a clueless company.

camcil
I'm in the market now and I honestly don't think anyone even looks at the education section of the resume if there is applicable work experience following it. After 10+ interviews in the past couple of months, education hasn't been mentioned once in an interview, and my unofficial transcripts have been requested one time prior to and interview.
b3ing
Yeah it sucks, but for many even in a good economy, you will struggle like that coming from a small college that isn’t well known or just not looking the right way. Life isn’t fair, just do what you have to, to get by
revskill
I kept hearing about 2008 crisis. It is overrated. Just a market up and down ?
johnnyanmac
Are we calling current times overrated too? If so I'd love to know how you are fairing with work and overall finances.
MrDresden
I can't speak for other places but graduating into the Icelandic market at the time was brutal. The state was effectively bankrupt at the time.
disgruntledphd2
It was probably the worst economic crisis of the last fifty years. It went on forever, particularly in Europe and the UK (mostly because of a bunch of bone-headed moves by politicians).

Even the US basically didn't get back to where it was pre-2008 till 2019.

Tech was fine because mobile was happening, but it was incredibly grim everywhere else.

billy99k
"Even the US basically didn't get back to where it was pre-2008 till 2019."

Hard disagree. Things went back to almost normal around 2013. Lots of money going around, new startups, and plenty of jobs.

disgruntledphd2
Yeah fair enough. The numbers suggest otherwise but I only visited back then.
giantg2
This was true even a few years after 08/09. I applied to about 250 positions and lowballed my salary. I did get a job after 5 or so months of looking. I will say, that lowball salary is still impacting me today. If you do lowball yourself, you have to do a bit of job hopping when the market gets good to boost it.
devwastaken
its different this time. the work isnt coming back because the market is now saturated by an oligopoly. IP law and anti competitive practices have effectively stopped upstarts. thats why old tech corps like IBM, Oracle gave trump money and align with their politics.
nradov
There are as many startups now as ever before. It's probably pointless to compete directly against an established company in a mature market like relational databases but there is unlimited opportunity for new stuff.
devwastaken
devs dont understand IP law or business. it doesnt matter if youre “innovative”. the concept of your techn was already R&D by someone else. you are beholden to them and they may license it but you will never own it. innovation is over.
nradov
Bullshit. That's not how IP law or business works at all. You're just making things up. I see more technology innovation all around then ever before.
toomuchtodo
https://www.reddit.com/r/hiringcafe | https://hiring.cafe/ (not mine, but I've chatted with folks its worked for)

Know when to rest, not to quit. Take whatever job you can now while continuing to look for your next role.

> What helped you push through when it felt like the system failed you?

Grit and nihilism. No one is coming to save us.

johnobrien1010
> Take whatever job you can now while continuing to look for your next role.

This. And by any job I mean any job. McDonalds, book store, what have you. A good friend of mine dropped out of Harvard sophomore year. She found work at the COOP, then CVS, etc. It was definitely better than going back to an unstable and abusive environment while continuing to job hunt.

Pet_Ant
> Grit and nihilism. No one is coming to save us.

What I'll say won't help you now, but: this will help you later.

Don't assume you'll always be able to find a job. Work towards financial independence early. Avoid debt. Don't get some fancy car as a "treat" to yourself, counting on your future income to make payments... that income might not come.

Sorry it sucks right now. Don't give up, don't let your skills dull. Keep grinding and take any programming job just to start getting that 2-3 experience that locks out so many of the labour market.

toomuchtodo
Good advice. Save for future you, possessions are temporary.
arrosenberg
I graduated in June 2009 from a UC just after the crash. It took me until September 2010 to find a job in the field I wanted and get my career going. I got super lucky and found that job off a Craigslist ad. Just remember the system isn't set up to support you, so you are going to have to be proactive, creative, try and network and be uncomfortable asking for what you want until you get it. These are core life skills. Grit 'n' Grind.
Rooster61
It's hard to face this when fresh out of school, but one piece of advice I can offer is to network as much as you can. Talk to folks you know that graduated before you and have a job. Talk to professors who might have industry ties in their history. Talk to folks in the career center. Try to be as visible as you can. Yes, I know that seems trivial considering you don't have job experience, but even building relationships at school can pay off.

Those types of connections are CRITICAL in the age of scorched-earth AI centric hiring. I spent 9 months recently jobless after getting laid off, and its damned near impossible to get a job through the usual resume farm (LinkedIn job board and the like).

Also, look for jobs local to wherever you are that don't look all that glamorous. RTO is a big thing now, and smaller organizations struggle to hire locally without the brand recognition of the big guys. That might be your in for your first job.

And the biggest thing, keep your head up. Keep pushing. You just got a degree from an extremely difficult program, and you can hang your hat on that. The factors affecting the job market are not within your control, and your skills will outlast them.

kkylin
Agree with everything here, with one minor addition: talk not just to professors who might have industry ties, but everyone in your orbit with whom you have reason to think might help -- even those professors (or research scientists or postdocs or grad students or what have you) who entered MIT as a freshman and never left will have had many contacts (e.g., former students or classmates) who are in industry, and in many cases people do keep in touch.
freedomben
Indeed, this is a big benefit of being from MIT. Most professors at most schools don't have good connections in my experience, but that is not the case for MIT.

Asking for referrals/connections will be more effective though if you have an interest and focus and can articulate that to the prof. Imagine they are the first link in the hiring chain and treat them accordingly. You need to sell yourself to them before they'll sell you to their network.

Rooster61
This. My comment was definitely not meant to limit, just giving examples. Introduce yourself to a brick wall if you think it will give you a boost
kkylin
Absolutely agree! I only added the comment lest yours be read too literally.
lkrubner
I agree with the emphasis on networking. At the risk of sounding like I am doing an advertisement, last month I gave away 5 free tickets to graduates of Fullstack Academy to come to my event, and one of those people found a part-time connection to a startup via the event. I'll do the same again, if you're in New York City, I offer 5 free tickets. Reach me at lawrence@krubner.com. Mention this Hacker News post. We will have entrepreneurs at this month's event who are hiring. Come join us. Details:

https://respectfulleadership.substack.com/p/april-28-the-inf...

FilosofumRex
This is just old school fatherly advice, which doesn't represent today's reality at anywhere, let alone at MIT.

Most profs these days, went to grad school right out of college and never stepped foot in the industry. If they've had any contact within industry it's through some R&D grant with other PhDs. A few are in start-ups which means they only hire interns for $20/hr, and fresh off the boat indians and asians grad students.

Small or local companies don't want and can't pay salary of MIT grads; they've plenty of salt-of-the-earth local engineering school grads to chose from.

Clubber
I second this. I haven't had to do the typical recruiter channel since 1998. I have plenty of people I've worked with in previous jobs whose companies were looking for good people. This only works if you work hard enough to make a good impression.

I would suggest for your first job, take whatever you can get, as long as it is in your field, and deal with it for the first two years to get your foot in the industry. My first job was notoriously horrible, but after two years, I got a really good job with a company you've heard of through a recommendation.

Also, I would suggest looking outside the typical mega tech companies. There are plenty of other industries that need good people.

atrettel
I second networking as the thing to do in this job market.

The vast majority of the recent interviews that I have gotten have been through networking. Sometimes just asking the right people works, but obviously you have to know who to ask, when to ask it, and how to ask it to make it work. There are also more passive methods like the HN monthly job threads, but you should do active networking as your primary networking method in this job market.

Even if I apply via a job board to positions that I am supremely qualified for, there is a good chance I'll be auto-rejected within a day. It has happened multiple times to me and I shrug it off at this point.

I know networking is hard, especially when you are just starting out, but I just wanted to write a post saying that it does work if you stick to it.

(That said, I would also prepare to be unemployed for an extended period. Even if you are actively interviewing, it can take months to get a job offer. For my current position, it took 5 months to get an offer and I started 4 months later due to a housing storage where the job was located.)

fluidwizard
Networking is the most OP "soft skill" one can learn in the long run, takes time to properly have enough people who trust you (and that you trust as well), but its definitely worth it specially in bad times (like the ones we're having right now).

You can also "start small" and network via FOSS communities, I met one of my best friends while contributing to niche projects and we ended up working together because of it.

noleary
To OP, sorry you're experiencing this. If you want 1:1 help debugging your job search, feel welcome to email me directly (contact in HN bio). I probably won't be able to get to it until this weekend, but I will try to help if I can.
ElevenLathe
Many student loans can be put on basically indefinite hold via income based repayment (if you make little enough, your minimum payment is zero, but the interest keeps accruing). This gives you some flexibility to take any job you can find, even something that doesn't require a degree.

You might also look into trades, depending on your engineering specialty. A machinist with a MechEng degree from MIT or a millwright with something related to manufacturing will be extremely valuable, especially if you're willing to move where the work is.

laidoffamazon
MIT students almost definitely don't have student loans. The degree is free to cheap.
josefresco
> I've applied to tons of places

What kind of places are you applying? FANG? Startups? Something else?

returnInfinity
Look for marketing jobs, technical marketing, marketing on social media. People are hooked to youtube, tiktok, instagram.

That being said, the whole tariff situation is creating a dark cloud over all jobs

AstroBen
I'm not sure that's the best advice unless you're looking to build a career in marketing

If you're looking at your long term career trajectory you're probably better off taking a (maybe much) lower paying job in the area you want to end up in. Grow relevant skills and gain experience

Of course this is irrelevant if you just need money to survive today

dskhatri
Consider tapping into the alumni network - I can help with more guidance on this front. Drop me an email.
neural_thing
These days, applying through job portals is a losing strategy. People are overwhelmed with perfect-on-paper AI-generated applications.

Email people directly. DM them on Twitter/LinkedIn. Meet people in person.

rankam
To me, it sounds like you need professional experience on your resume so that should be your goal. However, professional experience != a full time software engineer role. Can you find something really small that pays from a freelance site? Maybe it's just a python script that takes 4 hours and pays $10 - but with that you are a professional software engineer. Do you anyone who owns a website for a business? Ask them if you can do some really basic work for $1 - because if you do that, you're a professional software engineer.

Once you have some professional experience on your resume, it should get a little easier - it's still going to take some time and grit, but it should work out.

bombcar
Decide where you WANT to be (like, literally, location).

Plan to move there and get any job.

Don't be ashamed to apply for any and all government assistance you might be able to find.

analog31
If you can get support, staying for a graduate degree is a time honored way of riding things out when you graduate into a recession. And if the stock charts are an indication, industry is bracing for the mother of all recessions.
iancmceachern
It was like this when I, and my friends graduated. This too will pass. Do not let it discourage you and take away everything you've worked so hard to achieve. You will triumph anyway. It's not easy to get into, let alone graduate from a school like MiT. God speed my friend.
paulsutter
If you're interesting in automated manufacturing, contact me at paul@neofactory.ai

Most hardtech startups dont have the same constraints as big tech in hiring. More than anything we need smart dedicated people to create the future.

skirge
You are one of the best in history prepared to do your job, with current knowledge etc. and best university in the world, get your colleagues and start a company. You don't need a jerk who barely passed a college to tell you what to do.
TrackerFF
Don't be afraid to:

- Hit up alumni on LinkedIn, even though you've never met them before.

- Cold-call companies.

But at the very least be genuine, and look up what the companies and people do.

throitallaway
Welcome to the machine. What sort of jobs are you applying for? If you haven't worked in your field at all yet, keep your sights low and apply for entry level positions or internships. IME there can be a large gap between what formal education provides and actually producing work. Also, soft skills are very important and often overlooked.

I've interviewed some PhD students that we deep in their field, but they had zero work experience. That, combined with the fact that they were applying to a non-entry level position, meant that I'd be taking a large-ish risk in my position if I were to hire them.

navvyeanand
Become a founder. It's the easiest way to make something people want and get paid a moderately decent salary while you're doing it!
preordained
Is there no pipeline--or a job fair? A way to get a moment with prospective employers? It seems tragically stupid if MIT offers no such thing. Applying into the void seems like a fool's errand.
weard_beard
Talk to peers, friends, even people you do not know that well and ask about their plans. Don't be afraid to ask for help. Crash on a couch for a few months. Keep refining and sending out resumes. Take a job that you might be overqualified for. Early in your career you should accept and work for entry level positions and anticipate that you will be doing this same thing every 2-4 years in order to get to a salary range you are hoping for anyway.

Don't expect or even look for a dream job straight away. Lower your standards. That's what I did, and I ended up where I'm supposed to be in my career after a few years. I took an early risk on a personally important project early in my career and found myself broke and headed home afterward. I just committed myself to taking entry level work and moving jobs several times in order to catch up with my peers who went straight into industry.

nosmokewhereiam
Service industry (waiting tables is my go to) doesn't pay well but it does pay...

I worked at Stinkies Fish Camp as a dishwasher fwiw after my 6 years as a Cyber Threat Operator in the AF (2012 government sequestration did wonders to clearance renewals). It sucked, but I lived. Well, survived.

Best of luck, always keep a candle of hope to a wildcard interview!

FilosofumRex
lol, you sound like honest & decent fellow, assuming everyone else is like you - but you've no clue who you're advising.
recursivedoubts
The advice I give to students is to leverage connections, especially family connections, as much as possible. Take any job you that have a family connection to, even if it isn't in tech.

Learn the business as well as you can and then apply your technical knowledge to it.

freedomben
This is indeed a very rough time to be graduating. You're unfortunately getting screwed. It happened to me too in '08/'09, so I know very well how shitty it can feel. Try to be stoic about it though and just worry about the things you can actually change, not what you can't change.

Here's my advice and what I would do in that situation again, though you should definitely adjust/adapt to your strengths/goals:

1. Don't "spray and pray" your resume out there (at least, don't do that to jobs you actually want). When jobs get tight it feels natural to want to spread your (resume) seed as widely as possible hoping one will germinate, but realistically that doesn't work. Instead I would find job postings that you want, and make yourself spend 20 to 30 minutes tailoring the resume for the job. Don't lie or even exaggerate, but don't include irrelevant information and definitely don't omit anything relevant. If it's something you have and it's mentioned in the job post, it should be on your resume, unless you don't think you could speak intelligently on the subject. For example I put in a job posting I needed someone with bash scripting experience, then interviewed somebody who put bash on their resume, but when I asked about it they hadn't done much more than just run simple commands. They didn't even know how to set a variable in bash. They did not get an offer.

2. Be willing to take something in QA or another adjacent area even if you feel it is beneath you (especially being from MIT. You went to a phenomenal school and deserve to be proud, but don't let that turn into counterproductive pride). Even the best school only partially prepares you for the workforce, and you can learn a ton even slinging test code. (to be honest, my time working in QA was one of the most enjoyable because I didn't have to deal with Product :-D). Being humbled to dust a few times in life has (IMHO) ultimately given me much better perspective on myself.

3. Take a look for Professional Services and/or Support Engineer roles that involve some coding. These are often a little less pay, but they are also more plentiful and the competition is much lower because many people avoid these roles. However, this can be a great way to get your foot in the door and pivot to a full SWE role 6 to 12 months down the line. You can also get some incredibly useful experience in these because you'll work will real customers/users and will learn a ton about product, bug hunting, and building clever solutions to solve real problems. You'll also gain industry experience in whatever industry your employer is in, and that can be invaluable for getting your next role. I worked with someone who started as an L1 support with no schooling, learned to code, started automating small parts of his job, and also learned a ton about the finance industry. He later got a fantastic job in large part because he knew a lot about loan origination and underwriting from working with customers. If you do this, talk to and get to know the engineers you work with. Not just to use them to pivot, but to actually get to know them as people and also learn from them. Many of them will be able to give you excellent advice and mentorship to help you get to where you want.

4. (this one can be a bit controversial but it's my opinion): Don't just look at local options. Moving sucks, but there are lots of great jobs in areas with rapid growth that will even sometimes pay for your move. I would definitely look in areas like Texas, Utah, and Colorado. I've even seen some interesting roles coming out of Arkansas, Chicago, and Minnesota as well. Hell, Boise Idaho has some good roles pop up here and there too, especially if you are interested in embedded systems.

5. Unless you are well differentiated in it, I would avoid chasing "AI" or even "Big Data" roles as those are insanely compe...