I live next door to a summer camp. The kind that has kids from the nearby city come for 2 weeks, sleep in bunks, play outside all day, hike, etc.
A few months ago we had a carpenter doing some work on the house, and he was asking me about the camp and living so near to it. Eventually he asked "Are they loud when they play? That must be so annoying. I'd hate that."
I replied "Nah, it's healthy and fun, and it doesn't travel as far as you'd think. The real annoying sounds are all the lawnmowers, weed whackers, and gasoline powered tools that people keep using throughout the summer". He immediately went quiet and sour. Guess I hit a nerve.
i think this started happening before the "iPad generation" we all love to bemoan, but it seems like practically overnight, kids were no longer expected to play outside (for all the reasons we've heard ad nauseum, especially those that fly in the face of declining violent crime statistics and increased communication media)... and rather than reflect on that, latently-cranky adults adapted immediately to the disappearance of children from public life. what a shame. i grew up one of those kids playing in parking lots and riding bikes through apartment complexes in my neighborhood looking for jumps, cool free piles and generally just places to be a kid.
i hope (not much, but somewhat) that with this increased recognition of the less-desirable effects of throwing kids in front of a screen, indoors, apart from each other, that we'll start to see kids reintegrate into the fabric of society. it's so important for kids to interact with people as they learn about the world, and it seems equally important for adults to realize that they're a part of the same community as parents and children.
We have kids of various ages playing outside all the time when the weather is good and, yes, they are loud. At least, sometimes they're loud, but they aren't always, and you get used to it. I think it's good for kids to get outside.
So generally it's not an issue and we just sort of tune it out and get on with our days but there is this one kid who only communicates by screaming at the top of their lungs at very high pitch constantly all day. Literally morning til night.
That gets pretty annoying although, fortunately, the particular kid is not always around. If I knew who the parents were I'd probably have had a polite word with them already because it's just so unnecessary even by the standards of excited and energetic children.
For years our neighborhood had an ice cream truck or two turn up a few days a week during summer, which we used to enjoy. This year, not a single one.
I saw one of the trucks at a school fete and asked about it. The guy said one person had complained about the noise so the local council banned them after 7pm! With most of their sales falling between 6-9pm, they decided it wasn't worth it for one hour and moved on to other local towns.
So not exactly "kids", but I think banning the normal, everyday noises involved in a local culture, whether that's church bells, kids playing football, carol singers, or ice cream trucks, is a slippery slope to nowhere positive.
-Then: Older generations had the cultural authority, and children were expected to conform.
-Now: There’s increasing tolerance—and even privilege—granted to children (and parents), sometimes at the expense of quiet, order, or adult comfort.
Hypothesis:
This shift reflects a society aware of its declining birthrate, where children are becoming scarcer and more symbolically valuable, so institutions (like courts) may reflexively protect or favor youth-centered activity.
I always have a hard time interpreting these stories. Is this really a trend? Or is it an example of someone collecting anecdotes from all around the world and presenting it as a trend?
The internet makes it easier than ever to search for anecdotes around the world that support an idea, but a collection of global anecdotes does not indicate a trend. There are billions of people in the world and some of them are cranky and intolerant.
If we're sharing anecdotes: I've had nothing but positive responses to my kids playing, even loudly. Obviously I'm not taking them to a library, school, or other dedicated quiet place to play, but the overwhelming majority of people in my area smile and laugh when they see kids playing, loudly or not.
Kids playing is great, but I think this article glosses over some important wrinkles.
A big one I see is that some parents seem incapable of distinguishing between "there are times when it is okay for my child to play noisily" and "my child's activities and/or noise level should never be restricted". Playing in a park is great --- that's what parks are for! Playing in your yard, or an apartment courtyard or the like, great. Playing on the sidewalk is fine. . . but remember that sidewalks are also for people to walk on, so if someone comes by the kid needs to realize that they should let them pass. But then we have parents who come into stores and let their kids grab things from shelves and play with them in the middle of the floor, and so on.
Part of accepting and embracing play is understanding that not every moment is playtime, and that even within playtime there can be subcategories with different expectations.
This article frames it in terms of noise, but in my experience a lot of the issues people have with noise are really issues about parents not understanding how to set boundaries for their kids, and teach their kids that behavior --- not just noise, but everything --- has to be adjusted for different situations.
There's a difference between being loud in public vs privately. As a kid, I was never allowed to be loud in a restaurant, unless it was a restaurant for kids—and even then up to a reasonable limit
Kind of interested for someone to look into if hearing children noise is healthy, I could imagine it actually affecting one's hormonal response and such, but also maybe not.
As we’re in tech, loud or noise are very implicit and can really range.
Reading this on Amsterdam, I know many others countries where there won’t be such a discussion at all about a soccer field outside a building.
I come from a place where children and the population is noisy due to many factors. every time we went as family on a holiday (With dutch people as an example), I saw my children become less and less vocal only to become loud as they were once we were back home.
Recently, we’ve relocated to Spain. It’s only a few months but still, I thought my children would get become less noisy similar to what we saw on holidays after a while…
But nothing changed, and also hearing other children here, they’re in the same “noisy” levels as my kids.
So there’s also a cultural aspect that needs to be considered about what is loud or how children are expected to behave, add immigration to that and cultural differences and you got so many factors.
Hm. I think I am encountering cultural differences here, again. Personally, I have a point from my grandma in my head: "If your ears are ringing from happy, playing children, that's future in your ears. That's good". For sure, within reason, but a huge ruckus in the shared backyard or playground between 08:00 or 20:00 due to kids?
That's what kids to.
I rather get worried if they abruptly stop, or start yelling differently. I don't even have kids, but I'll still take a look wether a kid of a neighbour mananged to add a temporary third joint to their arm, is bleeding a worrying amount or something like that.
I was just writing two days ago about how ADHD is overdiagnosed and our system is just set up to try to coerce kids to be convenient for the system: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44490274
There's kids being noisy, which in itself isn't much of a problem, and then there's _Dutch kids_ being noisy, with the latter sounding more like a bunch of roosters at a heavy metal concert.
Thankfully this is not a problem in Spain (I think this is either a southern European thing or Spanish thing). Kids share adult spaces all the time being it restaurants, bar, plazas or other spaces. I would not trade this for the world. In general the country is a very welcoming one for children in public spaces including active children.
I don't really see any need to take parental advice from a blog.
Not going to give advice either as we all have our own methods, but it's more or less the opposite of what this person is saying.
Doesn't mean letting them sit mindlessly in front of screens, but screen time is okay as long as they are creating, not consuming.
That has nothing to do with their noise levels though. There's a time and place. Outside with friends, yeah sure be loud within reason. In public around strangers? You better shut the hell up.
Our dorm was next to a playground in college. It was impossible to sleep in. They were literally just screaming at the top of their lungs for hours at a time. I guess it's different when it's someone else's day you're ruining.
I have 2 young kids, but I also had my first when I was 38 so I have a lot of experience as an adult with no kids.
I’ve only ever been seriously annoyed by loud kids a handful of times in my entire life. Each time it was always travel sports teams at hotels.
And I’m the kind of person who gets really annoyed at loud sounds like leaf blowers, and loud car stereos.
Kids can be noisy, but I have never had dinner “ruined” by an uncontrolled kid. I’ve never had a movie ruined by loud kids (I have had movies nearly ruined by loud adults and older teenagers). I’ve never been seated near a baby crying on a plane that I couldn’t tune out—especially with headphones (that is until I flew with my own baby on a plane—can’t tune that out because you’re just desperate to get him to stop so you don’t annoy anyone else).
I live across the street from an elementary school and during recess it gets quite noisy. I don't particularly mind, with one big exception: some kids scream a lot. I normally associate that screaming sound with "there is an emergency, check for trouble", but it's just kids playing (and I hear the teachers telling them to stop). Even during the off season, there is noise; for example, the people doing construction work sometimes trip the fire alarm, which rings for hours because the site staff isn't around.
I'd love to explain the idea of alarm fatigue, but from experience, people just think you're a jerk if you say "You should stop that alarm from turning on when there isn't a fire, because I will stop paying attention"
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[ 3.6 ms ] story [ 54.8 ms ] threadA few months ago we had a carpenter doing some work on the house, and he was asking me about the camp and living so near to it. Eventually he asked "Are they loud when they play? That must be so annoying. I'd hate that."
I replied "Nah, it's healthy and fun, and it doesn't travel as far as you'd think. The real annoying sounds are all the lawnmowers, weed whackers, and gasoline powered tools that people keep using throughout the summer". He immediately went quiet and sour. Guess I hit a nerve.
i hope (not much, but somewhat) that with this increased recognition of the less-desirable effects of throwing kids in front of a screen, indoors, apart from each other, that we'll start to see kids reintegrate into the fabric of society. it's so important for kids to interact with people as they learn about the world, and it seems equally important for adults to realize that they're a part of the same community as parents and children.
So generally it's not an issue and we just sort of tune it out and get on with our days but there is this one kid who only communicates by screaming at the top of their lungs at very high pitch constantly all day. Literally morning til night.
That gets pretty annoying although, fortunately, the particular kid is not always around. If I knew who the parents were I'd probably have had a polite word with them already because it's just so unnecessary even by the standards of excited and energetic children.
I saw one of the trucks at a school fete and asked about it. The guy said one person had complained about the noise so the local council banned them after 7pm! With most of their sales falling between 6-9pm, they decided it wasn't worth it for one hour and moved on to other local towns.
So not exactly "kids", but I think banning the normal, everyday noises involved in a local culture, whether that's church bells, kids playing football, carol singers, or ice cream trucks, is a slippery slope to nowhere positive.
-Then: Older generations had the cultural authority, and children were expected to conform.
-Now: There’s increasing tolerance—and even privilege—granted to children (and parents), sometimes at the expense of quiet, order, or adult comfort.
Hypothesis:
I have kids. I love a loud house with quiet time.
Loud children above age 2ish in the movie theater or restaurant are to be behaved because of the proximity of others.
Babies on airplanes get a pass because iykyk
The internet makes it easier than ever to search for anecdotes around the world that support an idea, but a collection of global anecdotes does not indicate a trend. There are billions of people in the world and some of them are cranky and intolerant.
If we're sharing anecdotes: I've had nothing but positive responses to my kids playing, even loudly. Obviously I'm not taking them to a library, school, or other dedicated quiet place to play, but the overwhelming majority of people in my area smile and laugh when they see kids playing, loudly or not.
A big one I see is that some parents seem incapable of distinguishing between "there are times when it is okay for my child to play noisily" and "my child's activities and/or noise level should never be restricted". Playing in a park is great --- that's what parks are for! Playing in your yard, or an apartment courtyard or the like, great. Playing on the sidewalk is fine. . . but remember that sidewalks are also for people to walk on, so if someone comes by the kid needs to realize that they should let them pass. But then we have parents who come into stores and let their kids grab things from shelves and play with them in the middle of the floor, and so on.
Part of accepting and embracing play is understanding that not every moment is playtime, and that even within playtime there can be subcategories with different expectations.
This article frames it in terms of noise, but in my experience a lot of the issues people have with noise are really issues about parents not understanding how to set boundaries for their kids, and teach their kids that behavior --- not just noise, but everything --- has to be adjusted for different situations.
Reading this on Amsterdam, I know many others countries where there won’t be such a discussion at all about a soccer field outside a building.
I come from a place where children and the population is noisy due to many factors. every time we went as family on a holiday (With dutch people as an example), I saw my children become less and less vocal only to become loud as they were once we were back home.
Recently, we’ve relocated to Spain. It’s only a few months but still, I thought my children would get become less noisy similar to what we saw on holidays after a while…
But nothing changed, and also hearing other children here, they’re in the same “noisy” levels as my kids.
So there’s also a cultural aspect that needs to be considered about what is loud or how children are expected to behave, add immigration to that and cultural differences and you got so many factors.
That's what kids to.
I rather get worried if they abruptly stop, or start yelling differently. I don't even have kids, but I'll still take a look wether a kid of a neighbour mananged to add a temporary third joint to their arm, is bleeding a worrying amount or something like that.
There I put forward some proposals at the end
Not going to give advice either as we all have our own methods, but it's more or less the opposite of what this person is saying.
Doesn't mean letting them sit mindlessly in front of screens, but screen time is okay as long as they are creating, not consuming.
That has nothing to do with their noise levels though. There's a time and place. Outside with friends, yeah sure be loud within reason. In public around strangers? You better shut the hell up.
We're sad we haven't heard them again recently. I was hoping to follow along as they got better.
I’ve only ever been seriously annoyed by loud kids a handful of times in my entire life. Each time it was always travel sports teams at hotels.
And I’m the kind of person who gets really annoyed at loud sounds like leaf blowers, and loud car stereos.
Kids can be noisy, but I have never had dinner “ruined” by an uncontrolled kid. I’ve never had a movie ruined by loud kids (I have had movies nearly ruined by loud adults and older teenagers). I’ve never been seated near a baby crying on a plane that I couldn’t tune out—especially with headphones (that is until I flew with my own baby on a plane—can’t tune that out because you’re just desperate to get him to stop so you don’t annoy anyone else).
I think people are just being overly sensitive.
I'd love to explain the idea of alarm fatigue, but from experience, people just think you're a jerk if you say "You should stop that alarm from turning on when there isn't a fire, because I will stop paying attention"