I've been looking into switching away from apple and try to buy more EU based services and products.
I love the concept and might just buy one to support the project, but I want something sleeker for my daily use. So I'm considering slimbook & tuxedo atm as buy-from-eu options.
Can you fly with stuff like this? I only wonder because of the battery setup. Very cool, I would personally use a regular track pad over the ball as I prefer as little mouse interaction as possible and it would stay out of the way better.
You're paying for significant ground-up R&D and manufacturing costs that only marginally benefit from any economies of scale. (It's also an incredibly fucking robust machine!) This is not a MacBook Neo competitor. I think if it more as a product for the person who is bored of their quad core-swapped, nitrocaster-modded, corebooted ThinkPad X230, and wants a new, weirder toy laptop to hack around on.
It's an interesting concept, but perhaps a bit financially and environmentally wasteful, when you can get a 10 year old ThinkPad for 10% of the price that will perform roughly as well as this one. We don't need to bring more low-powered laptops into this world.
It took me a while and a few regrettable purchases to come to terms with this, but you hit the nail on the head here. I tried to replace an old ThinkPad T440p with a Pinebook Pro at one point. It wasn't even a sidegrade, struggled with video playback, had a very small amount of soldered RAM that made web browsing difficult. I'd love to move away from x86 but maybe it'll be another decade before any of the affordable stuff is worth using. It really is hard to beat a ThinkPad from eBay. Even 4 years old or newer you can get quite performant machines for under $1000. On the less low-end there are the Apple Silicon machines, but Asahi needs a bit more time to bake as well. I'm still hopeful for the future, but will be more cautious in actually embracing it from now on.
> you can get a 10 year old ThinkPad for 10% of the price that will perform roughly as well as this one.
Eventually those Thinkpads will run/wear out. The hardware designs for a [pretty much a Thinkpad] will be a good thing to have then. Let rich nerds looking for bragging rights support development for the future; call them patrons.
Also, they will sell 6 of these, it's not an environmental concern in any way.
One day we will actually run out of "old" ThinkPads. They are already quite pricey in a lot of places in the world - especially the ones with libreboot support.
I use their Pocket reform option pretty regularly, its a gorgeous device. The keyboard is a delight to use and the community is very friendly and helpful. The RK3588 is also plenty fast for the programming I like to get up to -- mostly writing things in Go or Ocaml for myself, but also for larger tasks its worked fine.
It has rough edges but its very usable , especially for somone inclined to hack on their devices. My main trouble being my yearning to use Alpine on it but not quite having the know how personally to get it up and running.
I like it enough though, that I've also got the Next ordered, which I'm very excited for. Being able to upgrade them both more or less ad-infinitum while new boards come out is a big plus too.
Hi! I actually have, and have been using as my main device, an MNT Pocket Reform, and at one point was using an MNT Reform.
MNT's devices are honestly kinda incredible. I can't recommend them for everyone yet, though that will change soon. Both of them are a kind of "laptop of theseus"; you can open and change and repair them, and honestly I have. Both device's guts are dramatically different than where they started, but changes happened piecemeal.
The Pocket Reform is an incredibly cute device. I can't pull it out anywhere without people fawning over it. Not even just hackers! It's an open hardware cyberdeck you can use as your main device. What's not to love?
The MNT Reform Next will be closer to what many people want out of a laptop. It'll still be chonkier than a normal laptop. But again, these things are incredibly upgradeable and hackable.
Now for the caveats: for most people, I would wait until the MNT Quasar module comes out. The reason being is that while the current "best" module, the RK3588, is honestly pretty good with the 32gb version, it lacks one critical thing for most people and one other critical thing for me in particular. The first thing it lacks is support for suspend. Honestly, it does make working with a tiny computer like this a bit less appealing than the Pocket Reform's form factor could be, since what you really want to do is just be putting it to sleep and taking it out everywhere. The other thing is that Blender doesn't really run on the rk3588 either. You can kind of get a patched version working based on Lucie's patches, and I did, but it doesn't support the Eevee renderer, which is a must-have for me personally.
But the MNT Quasar board will be apparently fixing both of those above issues, and yes, at that point this will be a device that I can recommend generally. And I'll also note that I got the very first MNT Reform when it came out, and holy moly the state of the hardware now vs when it originally launched half a decade ago... it's hugely far between, but the amazing thing is that to get it up to the current state, I didn't need to throw things away, I could just open and tinker with things bit by bit.
In many ways, the MNT Pocket Reform reminds me of the book the main character has in the solarpunk book A Psalm for the Wild Built; a computer that is issued to you at the age of 16 and that which you carry with you for life. You can upgrade and repair it easily, but you don't need to throw it away.
So yeah, it's not for everyone. But if the idea of supporting repairable, upgradeable open hardware made by a lovely bunch of queers in Berlin sounds great? That you can hack on, that has a neat little community, that will be a conversation point amongst fellow hackers for its quirkiness? It's appealing to some, but not all.
> Hi! I actually have, and have been using as my main device, an MNT Pocket Reform, and at one point was using an MNT Reform.
I think the question here is "main what" device? Looking at the MNT reform alone:
I can't use it as a dev laptop (tiny screen, orthlinear keyboard)
I can't use it as my main web browser (4GB RAM isn't going to be enough)
So, that leaves it for uses where I need a small computer for doing something quick (emergency ssh for my site, for example).
For the Pocket Reform, there's even fewer use-cases. I'd love a rockchip based laptop that
1. Takes 18650 batteries
2. Has 16GB+ of RAM
3. Has mechanical keys in a regular layout
4. Has at least a 14-inch screen.
The form factor is what decides what the device is good for, and a form factor of a laptop but still being unsuitable for what laptops are used for is a puzzling product decision to me.
I mean, I am looking through this entire post you made. Quite a large post extolling the virtues, and yet I don't see one single point about what you use it for :-/
Look through all the comments - I don't see people explaining what they use it for.
Curious why they went with the i.MX8M SoC specifically — was it purely about open documentation, or did the memory bandwidth also factor into the decision?
For this kind of hobby device, I would love a different kind of approach that is more like an detachable independent tablet panel with a extended docking base both with CPUs - and hack on the smarts to make resources on the docking base seamlessly available between independent/docked states.
I ran across their trackpad [1] last night; it uses the same Azoteq TPS65 module as the keyboard I just bought. Unfortunately the module's discontinued. [2, 3] I guess people have been going through stockpiles of these given that the last manufacturing run was 2 years ago, but I note the MNT Reform Trackpad is listed as out of stock...
I'm wondering what they'll do to replace it. You can still buy the IQS550 chip it's based on and apparently make a very similar PCB. [4] The black frosted glass seems like more of a challenge for most DIY keyboard makers, maybe not for MNT. The replacement project I saw recommended "2mm thick matte acrylic".
[edit: or maybe the TPS65 manufacturing restarted? mouser apparently has it in stock. [5] although that's the A unit without the surface.]
I would love to have one of these with a RISC-V SBC, I know there's a framework board but as good as framework is they're never be able to beat MNT in terms of hackability
Typing this from a Pocket Reform right now. The two non-work devices I use most often are this and the Reform 2, and I've upgraded both to various degrees over time. I plan to swap modules between them at some point soon so I can have the Pocket Reform be the faster of the two.
I should really write up a long-term review of this thing at some point, but overall I love it. It can be a bit rough around the edges at times, but it's also the coziest little machine I've used in a long time. (And seriously, having a mechanical keyboard in this form factor is great.)
I hope to keep using it long into the future, and the fact that it's open hardware (and that the batteries are standard off-the-shelf pouch cells, or 18650s for the full-size Reform) gives me hope that I will be able to.
I really like almost everything about MNT's products except for the hardware. Not from a performance standpoint, but on a more fundamental level. I'm really not impressed with all the caveats that ARM brings here. I understand the hacker ethos is part of the brand, and that's perfectly fine when it comes to the friction involved in getting a preferred distro (and other software) running. What's less fine are things like the fundamentally broken sleep/wake functionality.
I'd love to drop $1700 on a Pocket Reform, it's far more appealing than a GPD Pocket 4, but what makes it hard to justify is knowing I'm just buying into another system hampered by the critical flaw of being an ARM SoC. Even though they're tantalizing as a super-luxury boutique computer, overbuilt and absolutely lovely, at the end of the day I simply can't overlook the awful ARM experience it brings with it.
I have wanted an MNT Reform for quite a while. The problem for me has been spending so much money on an RK3588. Feels irresponsible for a machine that would mostly be accessing my Mac Studio as the Reform is so weak. On the other hand, every single design choice hits for me. I may get one at some point, possibly second hand.
MNT Pocket Reform user here, had mine for about 1.5 years now in pretty much daily use
Mostly I use it at university (studying psychology) for reading and annotating literature, writing papers using LaTeX, statistics in RStudio, and email, or at home whenever I'm not at my desktop PC and need something with a keyboard or otherwise more capable than my phone. Sometimes I'll take it with me on a trip in case I want to do some writing while traveling.
It sure is a conversation starter. I"m certainly "the lady with the cute cyberpunk-ish laptop" at uni now (I have the purple version)
Things I like:
- trackball: I wish more laptops came with that option these days. Love it
- keyboard: I use a columnar layout on my desktop as well so the ortholinear one was very welcome and afaik the Pocket Reform is the only laptop available right now with such a layout.
- case: it's chunky but very sturdy. I used to run a few MacBooks over the years and I always worried about their super-thin screen assemblies. I never worry about damaging my Pocket Reform when chucking it in a bag. This thing is really sturdy.
- community support: whenever I had any issue, people on the user forum were quick to help and usually a solution was found very soon.
Things that could be better:
- battery life: I get about 4h on a full charge, which is fine. And I can easily get to 8h with a small USB-C powerbank. There's a guide on how to replace the battery cells with larger ones for about 8-10h of running time on the user forum but I haven't gotten around to trying that. Sounds promising though.
- performance: the RK3588 is fast enough for most everyday tasks but it sure has its limits. I'm not going to edit my 50MP RAW photos on this machine.
Issues experienced:
- Debian unstable: by default the device ships with Debian unstable (sid) which has caused a lot of issues for me early on, just software breaking a lot. However there's a really good community project providing stable (Trixie) images for Reform laptops and since switching to that it's been smooth sailing.
- some battery charging inconsistency: might be related to an early revision of the charging board and I'll probably switch it out for a newer one soon.
Who is this device for?
I'd day it's definitely an enthusiast device. If I just needed a laptop, then yes, I could have gotten an old Thinkpad or a Framework or even a Macbook Air for less money as others have commented, but I think open-hardware projects like MNT Reform are important. That's why I joined the early crowdfunding for the Pocket laptop.
I like that I can actually repair this thing when necessary, upgrade components (like I've already did with the RK3588 CPU), that Linux is the "original" OS for this and not an afterthought, that I can talk to the people designing it (I've personally been to their workshop in Berlin) and contribute things myself.
Knowing Linux basics is certainly helpful too. I would not want to throw a Windows/Mac user with no UNIX terminal experience into the deep end, especially not when running Debian unstable.
It's a nerdy and unique machine for people who are fine with some level of tinkering and I really like it. No other laptop feels like this to use and that's hard to express in specs.
44 comments
[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 68.1 ms ] threadI love the concept and might just buy one to support the project, but I want something sleeker for my daily use. So I'm considering slimbook & tuxedo atm as buy-from-eu options.
The trackball stays out of the way very nicely when you don't need it and it uses a lot less space than a trackpad would.
I'd go for a framework using the Roma or CIX boards if I wanted to go for an "open hardware but not really" goal.
Eventually those Thinkpads will run/wear out. The hardware designs for a [pretty much a Thinkpad] will be a good thing to have then. Let rich nerds looking for bragging rights support development for the future; call them patrons.
Also, they will sell 6 of these, it's not an environmental concern in any way.
It's like framework laptops, but EU based and without the drama of funding a fascist developer.
It has rough edges but its very usable , especially for somone inclined to hack on their devices. My main trouble being my yearning to use Alpine on it but not quite having the know how personally to get it up and running.
I like it enough though, that I've also got the Next ordered, which I'm very excited for. Being able to upgrade them both more or less ad-infinitum while new boards come out is a big plus too.
MNT's devices are honestly kinda incredible. I can't recommend them for everyone yet, though that will change soon. Both of them are a kind of "laptop of theseus"; you can open and change and repair them, and honestly I have. Both device's guts are dramatically different than where they started, but changes happened piecemeal.
The Pocket Reform is an incredibly cute device. I can't pull it out anywhere without people fawning over it. Not even just hackers! It's an open hardware cyberdeck you can use as your main device. What's not to love?
The MNT Reform Next will be closer to what many people want out of a laptop. It'll still be chonkier than a normal laptop. But again, these things are incredibly upgradeable and hackable.
Now for the caveats: for most people, I would wait until the MNT Quasar module comes out. The reason being is that while the current "best" module, the RK3588, is honestly pretty good with the 32gb version, it lacks one critical thing for most people and one other critical thing for me in particular. The first thing it lacks is support for suspend. Honestly, it does make working with a tiny computer like this a bit less appealing than the Pocket Reform's form factor could be, since what you really want to do is just be putting it to sleep and taking it out everywhere. The other thing is that Blender doesn't really run on the rk3588 either. You can kind of get a patched version working based on Lucie's patches, and I did, but it doesn't support the Eevee renderer, which is a must-have for me personally.
But the MNT Quasar board will be apparently fixing both of those above issues, and yes, at that point this will be a device that I can recommend generally. And I'll also note that I got the very first MNT Reform when it came out, and holy moly the state of the hardware now vs when it originally launched half a decade ago... it's hugely far between, but the amazing thing is that to get it up to the current state, I didn't need to throw things away, I could just open and tinker with things bit by bit.
In many ways, the MNT Pocket Reform reminds me of the book the main character has in the solarpunk book A Psalm for the Wild Built; a computer that is issued to you at the age of 16 and that which you carry with you for life. You can upgrade and repair it easily, but you don't need to throw it away.
So yeah, it's not for everyone. But if the idea of supporting repairable, upgradeable open hardware made by a lovely bunch of queers in Berlin sounds great? That you can hack on, that has a neat little community, that will be a conversation point amongst fellow hackers for its quirkiness? It's appealing to some, but not all.
I think the question here is "main what" device? Looking at the MNT reform alone:
I can't use it as a dev laptop (tiny screen, orthlinear keyboard)
I can't use it as my main web browser (4GB RAM isn't going to be enough)
So, that leaves it for uses where I need a small computer for doing something quick (emergency ssh for my site, for example).
For the Pocket Reform, there's even fewer use-cases. I'd love a rockchip based laptop that
1. Takes 18650 batteries
2. Has 16GB+ of RAM
3. Has mechanical keys in a regular layout
4. Has at least a 14-inch screen.
The form factor is what decides what the device is good for, and a form factor of a laptop but still being unsuitable for what laptops are used for is a puzzling product decision to me.
I mean, I am looking through this entire post you made. Quite a large post extolling the virtues, and yet I don't see one single point about what you use it for :-/
Look through all the comments - I don't see people explaining what they use it for.
I'm wondering what they'll do to replace it. You can still buy the IQS550 chip it's based on and apparently make a very similar PCB. [4] The black frosted glass seems like more of a challenge for most DIY keyboard makers, maybe not for MNT. The replacement project I saw recommended "2mm thick matte acrylic".
[edit: or maybe the TPS65 manufacturing restarted? mouser apparently has it in stock. [5] although that's the A unit without the surface.]
[1] https://shop.mntre.com/products/mnt-reform-capacitive-trackp...
[2] https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/azoteq-pty-ltd/TP...
[3] https://mm.digikey.com/Volume0/opasdata/d220001/medias/docus...
[4] https://github.com/geek-rabb1t/GR-Trackpad65
[5] https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Azoteq/TPS65-201A-S?qs=...
I should really write up a long-term review of this thing at some point, but overall I love it. It can be a bit rough around the edges at times, but it's also the coziest little machine I've used in a long time. (And seriously, having a mechanical keyboard in this form factor is great.)
I hope to keep using it long into the future, and the fact that it's open hardware (and that the batteries are standard off-the-shelf pouch cells, or 18650s for the full-size Reform) gives me hope that I will be able to.
But for mine I really would prefer to wait for the RK3668. My past experience with the current soc is that it's a tad too slow for many cases.
I'd love to drop $1700 on a Pocket Reform, it's far more appealing than a GPD Pocket 4, but what makes it hard to justify is knowing I'm just buying into another system hampered by the critical flaw of being an ARM SoC. Even though they're tantalizing as a super-luxury boutique computer, overbuilt and absolutely lovely, at the end of the day I simply can't overlook the awful ARM experience it brings with it.
Mostly I use it at university (studying psychology) for reading and annotating literature, writing papers using LaTeX, statistics in RStudio, and email, or at home whenever I'm not at my desktop PC and need something with a keyboard or otherwise more capable than my phone. Sometimes I'll take it with me on a trip in case I want to do some writing while traveling.
It sure is a conversation starter. I"m certainly "the lady with the cute cyberpunk-ish laptop" at uni now (I have the purple version)
Things I like:
- trackball: I wish more laptops came with that option these days. Love it - keyboard: I use a columnar layout on my desktop as well so the ortholinear one was very welcome and afaik the Pocket Reform is the only laptop available right now with such a layout. - case: it's chunky but very sturdy. I used to run a few MacBooks over the years and I always worried about their super-thin screen assemblies. I never worry about damaging my Pocket Reform when chucking it in a bag. This thing is really sturdy. - community support: whenever I had any issue, people on the user forum were quick to help and usually a solution was found very soon.
Things that could be better:
- battery life: I get about 4h on a full charge, which is fine. And I can easily get to 8h with a small USB-C powerbank. There's a guide on how to replace the battery cells with larger ones for about 8-10h of running time on the user forum but I haven't gotten around to trying that. Sounds promising though. - performance: the RK3588 is fast enough for most everyday tasks but it sure has its limits. I'm not going to edit my 50MP RAW photos on this machine.
Issues experienced:
- Debian unstable: by default the device ships with Debian unstable (sid) which has caused a lot of issues for me early on, just software breaking a lot. However there's a really good community project providing stable (Trixie) images for Reform laptops and since switching to that it's been smooth sailing. - some battery charging inconsistency: might be related to an early revision of the charging board and I'll probably switch it out for a newer one soon.
Who is this device for?
I'd day it's definitely an enthusiast device. If I just needed a laptop, then yes, I could have gotten an old Thinkpad or a Framework or even a Macbook Air for less money as others have commented, but I think open-hardware projects like MNT Reform are important. That's why I joined the early crowdfunding for the Pocket laptop.
I like that I can actually repair this thing when necessary, upgrade components (like I've already did with the RK3588 CPU), that Linux is the "original" OS for this and not an afterthought, that I can talk to the people designing it (I've personally been to their workshop in Berlin) and contribute things myself.
Knowing Linux basics is certainly helpful too. I would not want to throw a Windows/Mac user with no UNIX terminal experience into the deep end, especially not when running Debian unstable.
It's a nerdy and unique machine for people who are fine with some level of tinkering and I really like it. No other laptop feels like this to use and that's hard to express in specs.