> The short answer is that they have to. OpenSSH is developed by the OpenBSD community, for the OpenBSD community, and they do not give a flying Fedora about Linux.
What complete horseshit. I stopped reading there.
The OpenSSH Portable branch is maintained by OpenBSD developers and SystemD is a completely optional add-on so why on earth would they make it a dependency? If they didn't care about the Linux community they wouldn't develop this software *for free* for them. They can go write their own GNU SSH then.
It certainly doesn't help that there are 165+ definitions of what constitutes a "complete GNU+Linux system" some of which use SystemD and some which vow never to.
It's not the OpenBSD developers' fault some Linux distros use overly complex plumbing and can't agree on one standard for their OS unlike every other OS out there, including Windows.
The xz backdoor was a Debian and Red Hat issue because they maintained patches to fix problems of their own creation. No one else was affected. Why should the OpenBSD people care? It's not their problem.
>Did the OpenSSH folks know (or care) that ifunc was a thing? It's certainly not a thing on OpenBSD.
I do not know why you were down-voted, maybe you deserved no up-votes, but down-votes to me were a bit extreme :) But that quote tends to indicate to me the author put a little blame on OpenSSH Developers. Maybe the author did not intend it to be read in the way I read it.
OpenSSH developers should not need to know what or why systemd distros apply patches to OpenSSH, the distro I use, Slackware, did not have this vulnerability because the Slackware team, AFAIK, only adds patches if the package does not compile. If other distros did that this issue would not have occurred.
To me the issue was patching OpenSSH for some systemd thing. Maybe IFUNC was part of the issue, but the real issue was patching OpenSSH.
But I know one thing, I never heard of IFUNC and after reading about it, I will avoid that as much as I can. So at least I was educated :)
1) IFUNC is hardly the only way to run code before main.
2) The alternative they present is arguably less secure because the function pointer will remain writable for the life of the process, whereas with IFUNC the GOT will eventually be made immutable (or can be... not sure if that's the default behavior). In general function pointers aren't great for security unless you explicitly make the memory backing the pointer(s) unwritable, which at least is easier to do for a global table than it is for things like C++ vtables (because there's the extra indirection through data pointers involved to get to the table).
I take your meaning, but I think a threat actor targeting a system without IFUNC would be delighted if it suddenly showed up. It's like finding a website with a file upload form that purposefully supports ../ in paths.
Using IFUNC to patch sshd was kind of elegant, it achieved rootkit like behaviour with a pre-existing mechanism. And sure, it might be possible for a secure daemon like sshd to drop enough privileges that it could protect itself from a malicious dynamically linked library.
But IFUNC was not required, neither was systemd. The game was lost as soon as the attacker had arbitrary code installed in a semi-common library. It doesn't have to get linked directly with sshd, it only needed to be linked into any program running as root, at least one time.
Most programs make zero effort to sandbox themselves, and as soon as one of those links with the malicious library, it could do anything. Like indirectly targeting sshd by patching its binary on disk (optionally hiding it with a rootkit), or using debug APIs to patch sshd in memory.
IFUNC, systemd, and the patched openssh are all irrelevant to the issue, that was simply the route this attacker took to leverage their foothold in libxz. There are thousands of potential routes the attacker could have taken, and we simply can't defend from all of them.
There is always selinux if we want to add protection against arbitrary code running as root. Just because something operate as root does not mean it must have privileged access to everything.
I recently tried to make something properly sandboxed and, my goodness, we have basically crafted an ecosystem where everything needs access to everything. No wonder docker, despite all it's faults, is how everyone does it. You need an entire linux distro completely accessible in your sandbox.
> Most programs make zero effort to sandbox themselves, and as soon as one of those links with the malicious library, it could do anything. Like indirectly targeting sshd by patching its binary on disk (optionally hiding it with a rootkit), or using debug APIs to patch sshd in memory.
I do not understand how you even expected sshd to sandbox itself. Its entire purposes is to (a) daemonize , (b) allow incoming connections in and then (c) forward (possibly-root) shell statements. All 3 things are 100% required for sshd and would have already allowed an attack like this. Any talk about sandboxing here (or dropping privileges) is wishful thinking.
> The game was lost as soon as the attacker had arbitrary code installed in a semi-common library.
That is not quite true! You still have to get the code to be executed. I can call dlopen on a malicious library, load it into my address space, and still not necessarily invoke any dangerous functions. What ifunc did in this case is allow the attacker to manipulate symbols so that calls to real, well-behaved xz routines were instead redirected to the attack payload.
Some solaris engineer got a little too clever and decided that the modular part of the the auth system needed to be dynamic libs. Now it's all in one process space, hard to understand, hard to debug and fragile.
I really like openbsd's bsdauth, I don't know if it is actually any better than pam but because it is moduler at the process level it is possible for mere mortals to debug and make custom auth plugins. Sadly only obsd actually uses it. https://man.openbsd.org/login.conf.5#AUTHENTICATION
IFUNC should be implemented by software itself,
like switching functions on runtime/compile checks.
Why bother having a slower, insecure version that is less
flexible than a function pointer? I have to agree with author.
Glibc is filled with even more nasty hacks ripe for new exploits.
Less indirection means faster code. If the dynamic loader is already using a level of indirection and you patch into that same indirection instead of adding another, you're not making it slower.
The entire argumentation here is ridiculous. There's a big jump from "IFUNC slightly undermines RELRO" to "IFUNC is the real culprit". You could have gotten all but the same effect spawning a thread from a plain init or C++ constructor. No one should think that any relro, r^x or aslr or anything like this is going to deter anyone who can literally control the contents of the libraries which are linked in. They could, literally, exec a copy of sshd with a patched config if necessary.
I will still hold the decision to link the biggest possible target on every server against the biggest, most privileged daemon on every server, as not very smart indeed.
IDK I do find it funny the linked project readme is dunking on this thread.
And I am again going to mention the book Linkers and Loaders by John R. Levine from 1999, I'm not sure if there's anything comparable to it. How else does anyone know anything about this stuff?
25 comments
[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 41.3 ms ] thread> The short answer is that they have to. OpenSSH is developed by the OpenBSD community, for the OpenBSD community, and they do not give a flying Fedora about Linux.
What complete horseshit. I stopped reading there.
The OpenSSH Portable branch is maintained by OpenBSD developers and SystemD is a completely optional add-on so why on earth would they make it a dependency? If they didn't care about the Linux community they wouldn't develop this software *for free* for them. They can go write their own GNU SSH then.
It certainly doesn't help that there are 165+ definitions of what constitutes a "complete GNU+Linux system" some of which use SystemD and some which vow never to.
It's not the OpenBSD developers' fault some Linux distros use overly complex plumbing and can't agree on one standard for their OS unlike every other OS out there, including Windows.
The xz backdoor was a Debian and Red Hat issue because they maintained patches to fix problems of their own creation. No one else was affected. Why should the OpenBSD people care? It's not their problem.
I do not know why you were down-voted, maybe you deserved no up-votes, but down-votes to me were a bit extreme :) But that quote tends to indicate to me the author put a little blame on OpenSSH Developers. Maybe the author did not intend it to be read in the way I read it.
OpenSSH developers should not need to know what or why systemd distros apply patches to OpenSSH, the distro I use, Slackware, did not have this vulnerability because the Slackware team, AFAIK, only adds patches if the package does not compile. If other distros did that this issue would not have occurred.
To me the issue was patching OpenSSH for some systemd thing. Maybe IFUNC was part of the issue, but the real issue was patching OpenSSH.
But I know one thing, I never heard of IFUNC and after reading about it, I will avoid that as much as I can. So at least I was educated :)
2) The alternative they present is arguably less secure because the function pointer will remain writable for the life of the process, whereas with IFUNC the GOT will eventually be made immutable (or can be... not sure if that's the default behavior). In general function pointers aren't great for security unless you explicitly make the memory backing the pointer(s) unwritable, which at least is easier to do for a global table than it is for things like C++ vtables (because there's the extra indirection through data pointers involved to get to the table).
Curses, thwarted again!
Using IFUNC to patch sshd was kind of elegant, it achieved rootkit like behaviour with a pre-existing mechanism. And sure, it might be possible for a secure daemon like sshd to drop enough privileges that it could protect itself from a malicious dynamically linked library.
But IFUNC was not required, neither was systemd. The game was lost as soon as the attacker had arbitrary code installed in a semi-common library. It doesn't have to get linked directly with sshd, it only needed to be linked into any program running as root, at least one time.
Most programs make zero effort to sandbox themselves, and as soon as one of those links with the malicious library, it could do anything. Like indirectly targeting sshd by patching its binary on disk (optionally hiding it with a rootkit), or using debug APIs to patch sshd in memory.
IFUNC, systemd, and the patched openssh are all irrelevant to the issue, that was simply the route this attacker took to leverage their foothold in libxz. There are thousands of potential routes the attacker could have taken, and we simply can't defend from all of them.
I do not understand how you even expected sshd to sandbox itself. Its entire purposes is to (a) daemonize , (b) allow incoming connections in and then (c) forward (possibly-root) shell statements. All 3 things are 100% required for sshd and would have already allowed an attack like this. Any talk about sandboxing here (or dropping privileges) is wishful thinking.
That is not quite true! You still have to get the code to be executed. I can call dlopen on a malicious library, load it into my address space, and still not necessarily invoke any dangerous functions. What ifunc did in this case is allow the attacker to manipulate symbols so that calls to real, well-behaved xz routines were instead redirected to the attack payload.
Some solaris engineer got a little too clever and decided that the modular part of the the auth system needed to be dynamic libs. Now it's all in one process space, hard to understand, hard to debug and fragile.
I really like openbsd's bsdauth, I don't know if it is actually any better than pam but because it is moduler at the process level it is possible for mere mortals to debug and make custom auth plugins. Sadly only obsd actually uses it. https://man.openbsd.org/login.conf.5#AUTHENTICATION
As I know C++ allows running arbitrary code before main too - for constructors of global variables. Does it bring security risks too?
The title is just clickbait.
And I am again going to mention the book Linkers and Loaders by John R. Levine from 1999, I'm not sure if there's anything comparable to it. How else does anyone know anything about this stuff?