which blocks the receptor that THC binds to and led to weight loss and further improvements of the “metabolic syndrome” beyond weight loss alone. Unfortunately it caused major depression in some people including suicide.
So looking at it that way it would be no surprise that cannabis causes weight gain and metabolic syndrome and in fact my experience is that if I am using cannabis I get a few kg. I think that is the THC and on top of that if you are smoking you are inhaling small particles that turn your blood into sludge (e.g. your blood is a “complex fluid” with cells in it that can be damaged) and doing damage to your lungs and capillaries and promoting inflammation and all that.
Many people have had cardiologists say they have perfectly fine hearts go on to have heart attacks months later. My brother was one of these people. He was going in for spinal surgery, cardio said his heart was fine. Two weeks after surgery he was short of breath. Turns out he needed a triple bypass.
And that was a physical change. Heart attacks happen because of electrocardiac issues as well.
No. This was about ten years ago. But not much has changed as I cannot get CAC score on Medicare even though they wanted to put me on statins. Cardiologist says I am fine. :/
Yeah, but I mean what can you do really? Many people have CAT scans then it turns out the technician/whoever missed something, or a surgeon forgets an instrument inside of the patients body, shit happens.
Information asymmetries are a bane in the medical doctor market.
Trust doctors with a grain of salt. There are many bad doctors that market themselves as good doctors, but are in reality terrible providers.
I recently had a scare, where I was encouraged by two separate general practitioners to seek immediate care with an ophthalmologist. I visited the ophthalmologist who I was referred to and they said everything was great, then booked my next appointment for a year out. Four days later, I started losing vision in my right eye.
After visiting a competent ophthalmologist, they were flabbergasted by what the other did. Ten appointments within 2 weeks later with the new specialist and we're undoing the damage that was easily preventable.
In short, some doctors are borderline DANGEROUS, but it's difficult to distinguish them with the ample legal protections they receive.
> After visiting a competent ophthalmologist, they were flabbergasted by what the other did. Ten appointments within 2 weeks later with the new specialist and we're undoing the damage that was easily preventable.
Eeesh...sorry about that. Been there my whole life. It too ten years to get an appointment with a Hematologist and was finally diagnosed with Erythrocytosis which I told them I had but always said my HCT levels were "not really that high". The Hematologist looked at my records and wondered why they did not send me in twenty years ago. I am on Medicare which makes it much more difficult.
> Anyhow, hope your brother recovered well.
My whole family disowned me for no other reason than me having a serious mental illness so I do not care. But thanks.
this is so true. There's huge variability in competence. and many doctors have fled to boutique medical care, or whatever it's called, since the recent changes in healthcare.
It comes down to the old saying for doctors, "when you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras." Rare and dangerous things often manifest in ways that look really similar to relatively harmless and common things. Go forward with the most probable explanation and you're not only going to be right the overwhelming majority of the time, but also keep costs and stresses down for patients. Only when somebody does show up with a genuinely serious condition (or otherwise had significant red flags) do you jump to zebras.
This is likely even more true in modern times with such high rates of anxiety and other similar disorders paired alongside the internet - there's going to be a lot of hypochondriacs suddenly thinking, and subsequently claiming, that they have every symptom of [something awful].
Doctors have very little in the way of legal protections, but malpractice has to actually be malpractice. A recent study on the topic found that in low risk occupations, 75% of doctors end up getting sued for malpractice over their career, and in high risk it bumps up to 99%. [1] When people don't like the outcome, they sue, but in most cases the outcome was largely unpreventable even with a high standard of care.
I have been a heavy cannabis user (like that guy in the Bob Marley song who "smokes two joints in the morning, smokes two joints at night") on and off from my mid 20's onward. I've also been a heavy exerciser and have the constellation of symptoms known as "athlete's heart" including an A-Fib diagnosis that I don't really believe [1] as well as concerning findings that may or not really be concerning because doctors don't know to evaluate us. I'm the kind of person who might get told by a doctor to exercise less instead of more!
Mostly it's been smoking, though I've had access to edibles and was lately impressed by cannabis beverages that contain 10mg of THC and some CBD that give an experience competitive to drinking alcohol. I find it easy to not use it if is not around, but once I get into it I will keep using it and quitting is a few days of hell followed by almost forgetting it ever existed. But maybe I get depressed a bit a few months later and think "I will feel better if I use" and then I will use for a few weeks to months, start feeling strung out and quit. Never dabbed, I haven't found a vape I like the way I like smoking but for me it has always been green weed, not extracts. It is legal to grow in NY and I know enough amateur and pro growers who owe me a favor that I rarely have to pay for weed and don't expect to ever go into a dispensary.
I do know that I gain/lose several kg of wait depending on if I am using cannabis. Despite being rather athletic and having a lot of lean muscle mass I have many signs of "metabolic syndrome" including somewhat high blood sugar, blood pressure, etc. I am off cannabis now and just started Zepbound which I am hoping will help with my metabolic syndrome.
[1] once i got into a biosignals hobby and started looking at EEG traces to evaluate heart rate variability where I often can't make out the P wave on a two or three lead ECG, how can you say 20 beats out a million were bad with any accuacy
That's a weird statement. I don't think I'll ever visit a cardiologist (as a patient) unless I had a suspicion of heart disease. Is it common to get checked out by specialists for no reason in your locale?
If people are this concerned about heart health, they'd be wise to continue a zero-covid lifestyle into 2026 and beyond, since each re-infection (which vaccines don't prevent) increases the risk of severe health outcomes, including heart-related issues among lots of others.
Yet I only see about .5-1% of the population in my area these days wearing any kind of mask/N95 respirator in public.
A - masks don't protect you, they protect others, B - what % of the population leaves the house when they feel sick enough that they should wear a mask?
B - a lot of them, actually. You see sick people going to work or shops all the time. And most them them see themselves as some kind of "pushing through it" tough hero.
> A - masks don't protect you, they protect others
This is flat wrong, but also a demonstration of how far the Back To Normal propaganda propagated, because it's a common misconception. They protect both; especially at an N95 level of filtration.
> B - what % of the population leaves the house when they feel sick enough that they should wear a mask?
For starters, ~40% of COVID infections are asymptomatic (and still carry the same aforementioned long-term risks).
Exactly. Being unable to account for this covariate (tobacco use) pretty much invalidates this analysis. The odds ratio for tobacco use is basically the same (3x).
The cannabis to cocaine pipeline sadly is real, whether we want to or not. As long as the same people we buy our weed from also have a chance of being the people that have cocaine for you to buy, all that’s left to figure out is the money and the willingness to buy some.
This is odd to me. The X to Y pipeline is real if A, B, and C also align. It’s a weak correlation that sounds a lot like the “gateway drug” propaganda.
That's interesting and probably an argument for pro-legalization.
Were I to pick a gateway drug into cocaine, it would be alcohol. It becomes a way to infuse more energy in a later night, which is usually one of alcoholic revelry.
When cannabis is just in a store and it's the only thing there, many potheads just stay in the pothead bubble.
So many guys I knew who were occasional weed smokers in high school started smoking cigarettes in college. That's the real "pipeline" effect of weed: cigarette smoking.
Cannabis is a multi purpose drug, cocaine is party drug and/or a "I haven't slept, don't want the 8 hour+ commitment of speed, but need to stay awake" drug.
The overlap of pot users and cocaine users is rather small in my anecdotal experience.
That's not a common path to coke. Those who sell coke don't want to deal with a less profitable product that can be purchased legally.
In the movies the drug dealer has an overcoat with every common drug ready to sell at any point. In reality people stick to one or products because there not dealing with multiple suppliers and carrying products for months until the right buyer comes along, they buy in bulk and sell quickly.
Pfff. Try food. People naively say "weed is a gateway to other drugs", meaning cocaine. In practice, the biggest drug it opens the highway to is food.
A stoner would smoke half-a-joint and then easily eat a pound of processed meat, then send a whole bag of chips down the hatch, washing it down with two or three pints of beer, and twenty minutes later will be eating ice cream directly from the bucket.
Food is the worst and most dangerous drug of modern human history. It has killed more animals, insects, and humans than any other drug. Cocaine compared to it is a kindergarten party.
> A stoner would smoke half-a-joint and then easily eat a pound of processed meat, then send a whole bag of chips down the hatch, washing it down with two or three pints of beer, and twenty minutes later will be eating ice cream directly from the bucket.
I'd like to say that's a little bit of an exaggeration but I also feel like a joint and $25 for taco bell at 1am wouldn't help my case...
Indeed, as that also happens during exercise. But, the effects of exercise are quite different from the effects of being a lazy pothead, and so it may be that the former is overall beneficial, and the latter detrimental.
Weed (as prescribed) gets me and many others moving and active.
There was a deliberate effort to demonize weed in the US as it's associated with mexicans, black people, and counterculture, and it's difficult to monetize if it's legal (anyone can just grow it).
Sauna raises HR without increasing blood pressure though (modulo some possible initial short spike at the beginning), because your blood vessels dilate.
Cannabis causes dilation of blood vessels and elevated HR, it’s the same effect. If you take a big dab you can definitely feel your blood pressure drop.
Yeah it raises heart rate and blood pressure bc it dilates your blood vessels. The raised HR/BP are to counter that so you keep pushing the same amount of O2 per unit time.
That's one of the reasons. The primary reason is THC is a partial CB1 receptor agonist - CB1 is abundant in the central and peripheral nervous systems - so it increases sympathetic nervous system activity and increases norepinephrine, both of which lead to increased heart rate independent of vasodilation.
I mean, probably? There's definitely a statistical likelihood of folks who use cannabis also using tobacco products or other substances. It's not a "gateway drug" so much as a "anyone who enjoys thing X is likely to try related things" object. I recall those early studies about alcohol in moderation being good for you eventually being debunked as, "actually, folks who could afford alcohol consistently in moderation also ended up being able to afford health insurance and that created the better outcome"; I suspect there's something similar with cannabis when we look retrospectively, given its illegality for so long (users are less likely to seek medical attention for symptoms or precursors to avoid the stigma).
The thing is we don't know without doing more research, which I genuinely appreciate the authors essentially calling out point blank. They're not saying cannabis is bad, they're saying that looking at the thin amount of valid data we have available thus far, there's definitely a correlation there worth investigating further.
In my experience there is no overlap between cannabis and tobacco users. Cannabis users dont smoke because cigarettes cause cancer. There was never a link published around cannabis & cancer because no research even existed!
You make some reasonable points but the implication, that cannabis is as benign as water, is farcical.
The popularity of cannabis doesn’t justify pretending it’s entirely harmless.
Consumed as an inhalant it’s impossible to claim that it won’t have similar negative impacts to putting anything in our lungs which isn’t clean air.
Consumed orally the harm will be in the dose. But there no evidence that the doses people consume for their pleasurable effect are within the safe range long term.
I am sure based on the available evidence cannabis is less harmful than alcohol, but it’s so unproductive that any research on its harms is immediately shouted down by fans who want to pretend it’s “water”.
Substances approved by the FDA are done based on specific treatments, with multiple trials and approval per use case
Substances declared scheduled are illegal by the substance itself, instead of per use case
paradoxically because there is no FDA approved use case and almost no way to get one
meaning that places in the US that diverge in legality and are ignored by the federal government have done so without any clinical trial, which would be some level of peer reviewed objective information by use case instead of the whole substance
we can’t even get a simple list of side effects, or a disclaimer about what kind of users shouldn’t use it
the two week hearing happening now mentioned marinol, with the DEA throwing its support behind that and rescheduling to schedule III, following the administration's policy aims (only mentioning because the head of DEA was anti-rescheduling before being appointed, spineless haha but I'm glad he's not in the way)
Would be nice to know how much of a role a sedentary lifestyle plays in it or if it puts everyone at risk regardless of other habits. Maybe this just means you need to do cardio several times a week to keep using THC.
FWIW, I've smoked cannabis daily for maybe 15 years, I'm not exactly sedentary (have dogs, a partner and like to (lazily) swim in the sea) but generally don't exercise. Visited a cardiologist like two months ago and have perfectly fine heart despite the smoking.
Anecdotal of course, many could probably bring up counter-stories too, but I do think you bring up a good point, it seems to me a completely sedentary lifestyle seems to be way more destructive to your health than moderate usage of various drugs and/or eating habits. People who just walk a bit daily already seem way healthier and happier than peers in their same age.
Not really related, but the other thing I found out recently that cannabis can cause is the worst panic attack I have ever experienced: a DPDR (derealization / depersonalization) panic attack. I’ve had regular panic attacks before. I get one a year, roughly, where I get essentially heart attack symptoms. But this was something else. It felt like something was truly, irrevocably broken with my mind and I couldn’t even describe what. Utterly terrifying. I was a heavy user but dropped it the next day.
I had a similar experience when I was young. Bought a vape and some Cannabis, which probably had really high THC concentration as it tends to have nowadays. Took a bit, didn't feel anything, then took a bit more, and boom, a panic attack. Might even had some hallucinations, I'm not fully sure what was real and what wasn't.
After the experience I felt kind of weird and "slow" for several days. Later I found out that there is also a genetic risk of schizophrenia in my family. No way I'm going to touch anything with THC ever again. I've tried CBD oil though and that was okay, slightly calming effect.
Anecdotally this isn't uncommon among heavy users, I've heard of similar things happen to a few people. You did the right thing stopping, where people really go off the deep end is when they don't listen to the warning signs and keep blazing.
I think weed should be legal and for the majority of people used in moderation it's going to be fine, but at the end of the day it's a psychoactive drug. It's probably not optimal to use it daily and in particular waking and baking every day is asking for trouble.
Also a case to be made that modern strains are worse. I fully believe that the risk of losing the plot is higher when you're smoking some lemon sherbet bubblegum flavours every day instead of old fashioned moroccan hash
THC increases glutamate release[1], which is most likely the source of this panic. I have psychotic episodes even with a a few big hits but then again I have schizoaffefctive disorder. Glutamate is my arch enemy.
In social systems or spiritual systems where cannabis is used, this is often called "going clear".
We (general West) have no overarching myth or support system to help people navigate this type of pure madness. We have a psychological framework, and anything that interferes with our capacity to construct an I, a me, an ego in real time is seen in the most ultimately negative terms. And the experience is terrifying, such to support these terms.
Though, if through meditation, through religious constructs, or similar, there is a learned capacity to sit with the experience, it is considered less of a breaking and more of a liberation.
Wouldn't recommend it, wouldn't prescribe it. Though this decoupling of self from experience isn't a universal ill.
i enjoyed reading your post. i'd love to know more about this "going clear". in my case, i have noticed that if you persist with cannabis inspite of the anxiety..u somehow come out on "top" ie solve the problem causing anxiety.
For me, cannabis causes anxiety, and it’s pretty well established that anybody with anxiety or bipolar or schizophrenia should not be using cannabis because it can make these much worse. I don’t suffer anxiety anymore, but there’s plenty of scientific evidence about the relationship between anxiety and cannabis use.
I’ve seen it happen over and over again, regular smokers stop smoking because weed only gives them anxiety now. It’s literally a gateway drug to an anxiety disorder.
I think it works for a while to cover up an anxiety disorder. Which is typically a result of adverse childhood experiences (like emotional neglect), until processed.
Literally no mention of ROA. It matters whether they smoke plant matter, vape, use it orally, etc. This, combined with their inability to account for a number of other factors such as tobacco use, makes this study literally useless. Earned a flag from me.
Some commenters here talking about anxiety, but I think the bigger cause, which many people don't know, is that THC significantly increases your heart rate despite it's usual characterization as a depressant. If I recall correctly (big "if" considering the circumstances hah) my heart rate after smoking would go up by 10-20 BPM (from 65-70 to 80-90) while still feeling relaxed; finding some numbers on this from a reputable source is difficult right now and this symptom is suspiciously missing from the wikipedia page.
There's more going on here than just the substance's effect.
There's a mind body connection that an altered state can throw into disarray.
Well, under the influence of cannabis, one may be a lot more aware of physical pain, dehydration, and so on. The key word is aware. Suddenly becoming aware of the fact that you are stressed out, you are carrying tension, can lead to something of a latent processing effect of some of these suppressed or physically felt emotions.
However, if you're generally not tense, ingesting cannabis itself does not always raise the heart rate. I can validate this myself right now, given I wear an Apple Watch and can vaporize cannabis. Looking at my historical data, there is no relationship, and my resting heart rate remains in the 40s.
It's anecdotal, but at the same time we need to be careful with something that acts on the physical, the mental, and dare I say it, the spiritual. If we focus too much on one dimension, we lose the important synergy from processing all dimensions.
sure but you aren't going to help mental/emotional problems by getting stoned
there are far better, legal supplements to treat that anyway, less expensive too
dope activates AMPK in the brain/CNS and turns off AMPK in the body/heart it's an incredibly stupid thing to do to yourself (also why people get "the munchies")
literally why it's called dope (before dope meant "cool")
There are (illegal) substances that are highly effective for treating these issues, PTSD, etc. Psilocybin, ibogain, etc. Obviously when administered correctly, with therapy, etc.
It seems to me that cannabis users aren’t seeing the benefits of the aforementioned group. My experience of cannabis stoners is that it’s used to numb out and for escapism, which certainly aligns with what you’re saying.
Yes, people want to recreate, doing all kinds of activities with various levels of risk. They don't need to concern themselves with whether you can respect it.
I wonder about all the confounding effects. In my country (famous for cannabis to be easy to come by (for decades already), and I saw many smoke from age 16 up as I grew up in 90's, 00's). I have always felt that the heavy cannabis smokers had something to compensate; stress, unrest, impending depression. It was never the healthy sporty types with fulfilling relationship, good grades or a nice career that smoke cannabis heavily. Sure, some of those smoked, but more occasionally.
I believe it’s an “artificial” reward mechanism. The ability to control one’s own rewards is an easy habit to take up. If the rewards aren’t coming from externalities one needs to get them from somewhere.
Esp the last wording: "friction with parents" (which is by the way are very noble wording here, I have to state)
I have not met ANY regular drug user (regardless which drugs), who didnt had "frictions with parents" early in their life. (and some for which its still persisting into their 40ies)
You ever taken a hike or nature something and try it in that different context?
Set and Setting are also relevant too. If you do it a soecfic way with other soecific tools and activities while on it, that all gets packaged and reinforced.
That's good you have the self-awareness. You're kind of on the edge of NLP territory. Is it the act of smoking or is that simply your internal slang for cannabis use? Can you walk and listen to music at the same time? (Fine, maybe you need to walk someplace where you won't get hit by a car or someone on an electric scoot.)
As the other comment says: set and setting. And it works both ways, you can take some memento with you, and when you're being quiet and introspective and you're feeling good fondle some fob: a keychain, a rosary, buddhist prayer beads, some macrame you're working on, it doesn't matter. Point is later when you're in a different situation, you can replay that ritualistic behavior and it will probably reach in and remind your body, which will then remind you mind. This is human nature: it's known that e.g. humans remember / forget things when passing through doorways, and some forms of acting use cues like this especially for emotional resonance.
That is an opinion. I for one prefer talking to a happy, healthy mind, healthy body-type over someone with a life riddled with substance experiments. In fact, it was why I hardly talked to some of my family for a long time. Every weekend was the same, they were always angry and in the end they nearly killed themselves. I'm happy they got out of it and we have a much better relation now.
Yeah I think for any of the significant pot smokers I've known it's a way of avoiding other issues. As a positive it's probably much better they descend into pot than alcohol which I'm sure many would if it was the only other easy coping mechanism.
I’m not from a place where cannabis use was common, but it was present.
Growing up I definitely knew some people who had their demons who turned to drugs.
However we also had a lot of people who were in good situations who picked up drugs for purely recreational reasons. One of my friends at the time even boasted that drugs were actually more appropriate for people like him who were educated, in good situations, and rational (his description of himself) because they knew how to manage themselves and their usage better. He even had links to some subset of the rationality community who had become pro-recreational drugs with a lot of justifications.
His turn to drug use marked the end of his promising academic career. He started struggling with mental health in ways that were obviously related to the drugs. Holding a job had never been a problem until he starting smoking, which marked his turn toward job struggles. His friends and family relationships started declining and falling apart.
He’s not the only one I know like this. The first person I knew who had to go to rehab for drug addiction was a happy, successful guy who started using drugs as a way to party more and for longer. He thought his life was awesome and he was invincible.
I think there’s become a belief that drug use is purely a symptom, but I’ve seen enough people go from happy to falling apart as an obvious result of the drug use. Most of the people I know who started using drugs didn’t do it at their homes in private to cope, they started doing it at parties with friends.
This is even well known with alcohol: There is common belief that being a “social drinker” is a different risk profile than someone who does their drinking alone.
I think it’s a comforting idea that we tell ourselves that nobody chooses to use drugs, they are driven to do so by circumstances out their control. We like removing blame from people and hoisting it on to the world. I don’t think it’s always true, though. Many people use drugs because drugs are rewarding (at first) and they like the way the drugs make them feel. The negative consequences come later.
I feel by your logic, no one should ever use drugs or alcohol lest they become addicted to how good they make them feel. An abstinence approach. very modern!
Not really, it more depends if you are east coast or west coast. East coast has stigma associated with loss of control. They have a stick up their ass basically.
In my country, California, we have so much cannabis use and it’s by basically everyone. People with spouse and children, fulfilling careers and exercise regimes. The culture of a place really can change the outcomes. It’s part of why Silicon Valley beat Route 128.
this is true of most risk factors though, diet, excercise, relationships, work , all suffer under stress. it's the job of medical reseach to sift this stuff as best they can.
Without a clear mechanism of action, this sure requires monitoring (like any drug), but the conclusions are terribly oversold. Correlation does not imply causation, no matter the sample size
but sure, still lets make to account by other "legal" substances (alco, tobacco, cocaine, pharmaceutics and other "lifestyle choices" infecting cardiovascular system)
and way they are consumed(smoked, ingested, pure or with say tobacco)
would love see data for a group who consumes cannabis by ingestion and especially not via smoking!
also- do they differ different thc/cbd grades used (high/low thc, "medical")?
im regards "research demonstrates something does this.." for many years alcohol was considered "healthier" over non consumption, just becauses non-drinkers were together with those of abstinent ex-alcholics.. thus average score was lower than for those who drunk minimal amounts and were considered "healthier".
What I find fascinating is how smokers rationalize their
behaviour, e. g. "weed is harmless". When they compare it
to fentanyl or heroine/cocaine, but compounds are never
intrinsically harmless. But you can not get that message
across most folks who are smoking weed. It's a somewhat
similar issue, to some extent, when you look at sumo
wrestlers. These have a significantly lower life expectancy
on average than the rest of the society in Japan, but the
sumo association does not acknowledge that. It's really
strange how the human mind operates.
Or alcohol, or whatever others are doing. In Italy, where I live, people on the ‘left’ side of the political spectrum (let’s say ‘progressives’) tend to think it’s perfectly ok to smoke dope, irregardless of what any scientific study may or may not say. This seems very weird to me.
There's a saying: don't throw stones if you live in a glass house. The same human mind that rationalizes the intake of substances is the same one that rationalizes social networks, junk food, eating meat, whatever it is. I wouldn't be so quick to condescend.
At some point in time, it's important to realize that not everyone optimizes for longevity, correctness, rationalism, and so on, and they just simply do what makes them feel good within the limited life that they have.
Nothing is intrinsically harmless. Cannabis can be devastating. But I was just sitting here doing work one day, got a hemorrhage in my eye, and lost half the sight in it. Otherwise, I'm supremely healthy. The cause: a gene.
Just a few years ago cannabis was presented online as a miracle drug that could cure all physical and psychological diseases. Any criticism of the sacred cannabis was strictly forbidden and dissenters were burned alive in the figurative fire of social media. Interesting how times are changing.
When it was legalized, there was a documentation push and clear presentation of the downsides. In fact, as above, the language is mostly presented in the negative.
This matches the general sentiment of the broad population.
And let's not conflate things. The article is discussing smoked cannabis. This does not invalidate the essential substance and benefit of the experience. If we remove the ingestion method from the basket of effects, it's a different discussion.
Not all positive, yet smoking is clearly not good for you.
for the anxiety crowd: don't buy street weed and avoid sativas
about the 'study': I do not trust anything that comes out of meta studies given how many base studies are found to be either garbage or very lacking in controls. And without knowing an accurate life history it is hard to rule out or quantify damages done much earlier in life.
For clean weed - not laced with anything - sativas are more prone to causing anxiety. I doubt one will find any kind of study proving this, it is anecdotal - myself, friends and the internet at large.
While not universally true, it seems that many of the sativas for sale are very high THC which probably is a primary factor. Other factors are terpenes, though there is still a lot of debate on whether it these are real or imagined effects.
Moderate THC (15-20%) indica or indica dominant hybrid flower, using a flower vape, IMHO, is the best way to go. Always a good idea to read strain reviews prior to purchase (or growing) as people will note those that have caused them to be anxious, sleepy, hungry, horny, etc.
People can also have very different reactions when taking a drug (weed, shrooms, lsd, etc) alone vs with friends, something to consider as well.
You talk like dispensary employees who are, in general, dishing out recommendations based on folklore and personal experiences. The only true advice is YMMV - there are no controlled studies on what different “stains” do, or even a formal definition of what a strain is for they matter.
What the literature definitely finds is that CBD ratio is crucial for anxiety (higher CBD = less anxiety). Some of the first lab experiments were pure THC and quite intense/unpleasant relative to what you'd get from a plant naturally "full spectrum." If you're ever in california, NY, Maryland, whatever then try something with 1:1 THC:CBD and maybe get some of the other CBs in there too.
[Strain sativa/indica can sort of be an indicator, but going by the dose of each active ingredient is the more scientific approach]
The entire field of statistics is based off not making critical type 1/2 errors (which meta studies are not able to control well) so I would say it is not just his "gut" feeling.
It's not addictive along the same pathways (as far as I'm aware) from what I observe in my own life you either smoke casually and could stop whenever you want to (I used to then I stopped no problem) or you are dealing with psychological stress factors that are best treated with the help of a mental health professional.
yes there are no side effects. i have cold turkeyed twice (once when actually in turkey). and nothing bad happened. even AI was telling nothing bad wud happen. but im usually a light user. say 4 joints a day with 4 grains of # in each.
What has worked for me is (1) Buy 4+ boxes of coconut water (2) remove cannabis from your house, (3) drink coconut water whenever you feel like smoking, (4) get some exercise going (swim, push-ups, gym, sports) - whatever the "MVP" of exercise is to start thinking of your body as fit, athletic & strong.
If I have cannabis on hand I will use it. But if I just don't buy it it's pretty easy to do without. Nothing at all like nicotine, which will consume your entire consciousness with cravings.
Come on people, it is a drug. Exercise, cardio, eat well, sleep well, it's your choice the risks you take, but try to balance the good with the bad, if you partake in "bad".
The study controlled for general health but I would note that the odds-ratio reported for cannabis use (4-6) is not so different from the odds-ratio associated when studying high vs. low income cohorts (3-5). This study is not a random blinded clinical trial it's reporting a trend present in ~5 million electronic health records which I assume record yes/no to patients ever telling a doctor they have used cannabis.
I would assume that cannabis use correlates with a few other important heart health variables and we would expect the odds ratio to be lower when accounting for those (alcohol doesn't have an OR more than 1.0, tobacco smoking ~1.5)
I'm sure that cannabis use is bad for cardio health but the reported odds ratio is very high. I personally do not use cannabis.
I mean, it's good that we have data showing some sort of connection between heart attacks and cannabis, but I appreciate the callout toward the end more:
> Since both studies were limited by their retrospective nature and the meta-analysis was limited by the challenges inherent in pooling data from multiple studies, researchers said that additional prospective studies would help to confirm the findings and determine which groups may face the highest risk.
Here's the thing that both the alarmists and the naysayers keep ignoring: all this data is new, it's recent, and decades of effective global prohibition have meant the only sources of reliable data came from either post-war/pre-prohibition studies (often by Defense Departments) or from "anecdata" gathered retrospectively among large cohorts. We still lack a substantial amount of direct, quality, long-term data on drug use and Nth-order impacts on the body, and these studies are the first steps towards getting more data from higher quality research to draw better conclusions from.
If anything, I try to be quite open with my Doctors about my own use precisely because I know that data is thin and dated, and any contributions from patients in an honest manner is going to help draw better conclusions for healthcare guidance tomorrow. Letting alarmists use these thin precursors as justification for a return to total prohibition is the wrong move.
correct. the push for dispensaries has been financial not medical. now that we are getting large scale trials there will be more real evidence to show the public health effects. my guess: it will go the way of smoking eventually. realization around public health effects -> cost of those effects on public services -> taxes and costs go up. I'm curious as to why heart attack and not stroke. seems like bp isn't the only thing at play.
quite a few people I know consume edibles as the main form of cannabis. but it seems underrepresented in all the studies I've seen so far. as several others have pointed out, you would think the act of smoking would itself have nontrivial effects on health
One can also use vapes. I avoid the cartridge types as I don't want to guess what was used to process them. Instead I use a simple flower vape which on the face of it should be less bad than say smoking from a joint or bong.
Gummies and other edibles though require processing in the liver before they become active in the body (they are converted to a slightly different form of THC) so you would need to consider whether there are any negative effects on liver health from edibles and then compare to the various 'inhaled' methods.
General friendly advice - for anything not flower, try to get things that are made by live rosin (not resin) as they are the cleanest and should not involve the use of any hydrocarbon solvents for extraction. Live resin would be next, though it does use hydrocarbons. Distilliates which are often in vape cartridges are almost always made with hydrocarbons. While the production method shouldn't matter if everything is done 100% properly, it does require trust that all the butane, etc has been fully removed from the final product.
I really don't understand why anyone who has the means to buy a decent dry herb vape smokes it. I have a friend who's a daily smoker who just refuses to make the change. Has an absolutely terrible cough and yet he persists with smoking.
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[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 70.9 ms ] threadhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rimonabant
which blocks the receptor that THC binds to and led to weight loss and further improvements of the “metabolic syndrome” beyond weight loss alone. Unfortunately it caused major depression in some people including suicide.
So looking at it that way it would be no surprise that cannabis causes weight gain and metabolic syndrome and in fact my experience is that if I am using cannabis I get a few kg. I think that is the THC and on top of that if you are smoking you are inhaling small particles that turn your blood into sludge (e.g. your blood is a “complex fluid” with cells in it that can be damaged) and doing damage to your lungs and capillaries and promoting inflammation and all that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN1AQDxwrSg
> I've smoked cannabis daily for maybe 15 years [...] Visited a cardiologist like two months ago and have perfectly fine heart despite the smoking.
And that was a physical change. Heart attacks happen because of electrocardiac issues as well.
Trust doctors with a grain of salt. There are many bad doctors that market themselves as good doctors, but are in reality terrible providers.
I recently had a scare, where I was encouraged by two separate general practitioners to seek immediate care with an ophthalmologist. I visited the ophthalmologist who I was referred to and they said everything was great, then booked my next appointment for a year out. Four days later, I started losing vision in my right eye.
After visiting a competent ophthalmologist, they were flabbergasted by what the other did. Ten appointments within 2 weeks later with the new specialist and we're undoing the damage that was easily preventable.
In short, some doctors are borderline DANGEROUS, but it's difficult to distinguish them with the ample legal protections they receive.
Anyhow, hope your brother recovered well.
Eeesh...sorry about that. Been there my whole life. It too ten years to get an appointment with a Hematologist and was finally diagnosed with Erythrocytosis which I told them I had but always said my HCT levels were "not really that high". The Hematologist looked at my records and wondered why they did not send me in twenty years ago. I am on Medicare which makes it much more difficult.
> Anyhow, hope your brother recovered well.
My whole family disowned me for no other reason than me having a serious mental illness so I do not care. But thanks.
This is likely even more true in modern times with such high rates of anxiety and other similar disorders paired alongside the internet - there's going to be a lot of hypochondriacs suddenly thinking, and subsequently claiming, that they have every symptom of [something awful].
Doctors have very little in the way of legal protections, but malpractice has to actually be malpractice. A recent study on the topic found that in low risk occupations, 75% of doctors end up getting sued for malpractice over their career, and in high risk it bumps up to 99%. [1] When people don't like the outcome, they sue, but in most cases the outcome was largely unpreventable even with a high standard of care.
[1] - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-doctors-idUSTRE77G5YS2011...
i.e. is there a symptom, question or quick, cost-effective and reliable test that can distinguish horses from Zebras in this situation.
A: Doctor
Bingo.
Some medical practitioners were the bottom of the class.
No different than mechanics.
Can’t hero-worship.
Mostly it's been smoking, though I've had access to edibles and was lately impressed by cannabis beverages that contain 10mg of THC and some CBD that give an experience competitive to drinking alcohol. I find it easy to not use it if is not around, but once I get into it I will keep using it and quitting is a few days of hell followed by almost forgetting it ever existed. But maybe I get depressed a bit a few months later and think "I will feel better if I use" and then I will use for a few weeks to months, start feeling strung out and quit. Never dabbed, I haven't found a vape I like the way I like smoking but for me it has always been green weed, not extracts. It is legal to grow in NY and I know enough amateur and pro growers who owe me a favor that I rarely have to pay for weed and don't expect to ever go into a dispensary.
I do know that I gain/lose several kg of wait depending on if I am using cannabis. Despite being rather athletic and having a lot of lean muscle mass I have many signs of "metabolic syndrome" including somewhat high blood sugar, blood pressure, etc. I am off cannabis now and just started Zepbound which I am hoping will help with my metabolic syndrome.
[1] once i got into a biosignals hobby and started looking at EEG traces to evaluate heart rate variability where I often can't make out the P wave on a two or three lead ECG, how can you say 20 beats out a million were bad with any accuacy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_Two_Joints
by the Toyes!
Yet I only see about .5-1% of the population in my area these days wearing any kind of mask/N95 respirator in public.
Anybody curious might consider scanning the sticky posts on /r/zerocovidcommunity for more information and links to external sources.
This is flat wrong, but also a demonstration of how far the Back To Normal propaganda propagated, because it's a common misconception. They protect both; especially at an N95 level of filtration.
> B - what % of the population leaves the house when they feel sick enough that they should wear a mask?
For starters, ~40% of COVID infections are asymptomatic (and still carry the same aforementioned long-term risks).
Also, title needs a 2025.
(Sadly speaking from experience)
Were I to pick a gateway drug into cocaine, it would be alcohol. It becomes a way to infuse more energy in a later night, which is usually one of alcoholic revelry.
When cannabis is just in a store and it's the only thing there, many potheads just stay in the pothead bubble.
Everyone I knew who developed coke problems had drinking problems first. Bar none.
Cannabis is a multi purpose drug, cocaine is party drug and/or a "I haven't slept, don't want the 8 hour+ commitment of speed, but need to stay awake" drug.
The overlap of pot users and cocaine users is rather small in my anecdotal experience.
In the movies the drug dealer has an overcoat with every common drug ready to sell at any point. In reality people stick to one or products because there not dealing with multiple suppliers and carrying products for months until the right buyer comes along, they buy in bulk and sell quickly.
I didn't want my kids to have any reason to know the types of people we had to deal with.
A stoner would smoke half-a-joint and then easily eat a pound of processed meat, then send a whole bag of chips down the hatch, washing it down with two or three pints of beer, and twenty minutes later will be eating ice cream directly from the bucket.
Food is the worst and most dangerous drug of modern human history. It has killed more animals, insects, and humans than any other drug. Cocaine compared to it is a kindergarten party.
I'd like to say that's a little bit of an exaggeration but I also feel like a joint and $25 for taco bell at 1am wouldn't help my case...
https://youtube.com/watch?v=XewVicFzRxw&t=152s
It is not.
(Exercise raises both HR and BP as well.)
Your parent's comment makes no sense.
Water can kill you, too! It does not mean that drinking water is bad.
There was a deliberate effort to demonize weed in the US as it's associated with mexicans, black people, and counterculture, and it's difficult to monetize if it's legal (anyone can just grow it).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uy_lCjA6poo
Also, there are alternatives to smoking it: use a dry herb vaporizer with no tobacco and you avoid the vast majority of the negative health effects.
The thing is we don't know without doing more research, which I genuinely appreciate the authors essentially calling out point blank. They're not saying cannabis is bad, they're saying that looking at the thin amount of valid data we have available thus far, there's definitely a correlation there worth investigating further.
The popularity of cannabis doesn’t justify pretending it’s entirely harmless.
Consumed as an inhalant it’s impossible to claim that it won’t have similar negative impacts to putting anything in our lungs which isn’t clean air.
Consumed orally the harm will be in the dose. But there no evidence that the doses people consume for their pleasurable effect are within the safe range long term.
I am sure based on the available evidence cannabis is less harmful than alcohol, but it’s so unproductive that any research on its harms is immediately shouted down by fans who want to pretend it’s “water”.
Substances approved by the FDA are done based on specific treatments, with multiple trials and approval per use case
Substances declared scheduled are illegal by the substance itself, instead of per use case
paradoxically because there is no FDA approved use case and almost no way to get one
meaning that places in the US that diverge in legality and are ignored by the federal government have done so without any clinical trial, which would be some level of peer reviewed objective information by use case instead of the whole substance
we can’t even get a simple list of side effects, or a disclaimer about what kind of users shouldn’t use it
only anecdotes
that annoys me and it’s not just about weed
(Literally the person responsible for the branch of government that keeps illegal drugs out of the country is an investor in a Kratom company)
Anecdotal of course, many could probably bring up counter-stories too, but I do think you bring up a good point, it seems to me a completely sedentary lifestyle seems to be way more destructive to your health than moderate usage of various drugs and/or eating habits. People who just walk a bit daily already seem way healthier and happier than peers in their same age.
After the experience I felt kind of weird and "slow" for several days. Later I found out that there is also a genetic risk of schizophrenia in my family. No way I'm going to touch anything with THC ever again. I've tried CBD oil though and that was okay, slightly calming effect.
I think weed should be legal and for the majority of people used in moderation it's going to be fine, but at the end of the day it's a psychoactive drug. It's probably not optimal to use it daily and in particular waking and baking every day is asking for trouble.
Also a case to be made that modern strains are worse. I fully believe that the risk of losing the plot is higher when you're smoking some lemon sherbet bubblegum flavours every day instead of old fashioned moroccan hash
[1] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s42238-025-00277-9
We (general West) have no overarching myth or support system to help people navigate this type of pure madness. We have a psychological framework, and anything that interferes with our capacity to construct an I, a me, an ego in real time is seen in the most ultimately negative terms. And the experience is terrifying, such to support these terms.
Though, if through meditation, through religious constructs, or similar, there is a learned capacity to sit with the experience, it is considered less of a breaking and more of a liberation.
Wouldn't recommend it, wouldn't prescribe it. Though this decoupling of self from experience isn't a universal ill.
Hemp, meaning very low THC, higher terpene and CBD content, is for you (and most!).
i find if you persist with it, the anxiety goes away and then you feel cannabis cured me!
There's a mind body connection that an altered state can throw into disarray.
Well, under the influence of cannabis, one may be a lot more aware of physical pain, dehydration, and so on. The key word is aware. Suddenly becoming aware of the fact that you are stressed out, you are carrying tension, can lead to something of a latent processing effect of some of these suppressed or physically felt emotions.
However, if you're generally not tense, ingesting cannabis itself does not always raise the heart rate. I can validate this myself right now, given I wear an Apple Watch and can vaporize cannabis. Looking at my historical data, there is no relationship, and my resting heart rate remains in the 40s.
It's anecdotal, but at the same time we need to be careful with something that acts on the physical, the mental, and dare I say it, the spiritual. If we focus too much on one dimension, we lose the important synergy from processing all dimensions.
it's as stupid as smoking/vaping and not even black box warnings will get people to stop
now if you need pain management I can respect that 100%
but you need to investigate Palmitoylethanolamide and Geraniol as alternatives
* https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48700498
there are far better, legal supplements to treat that anyway, less expensive too
dope activates AMPK in the brain/CNS and turns off AMPK in the body/heart it's an incredibly stupid thing to do to yourself (also why people get "the munchies")
literally why it's called dope (before dope meant "cool")
Marijuana is dirt cheap compared to any prescription medication, at least in the US.
It seems to me that cannabis users aren’t seeing the benefits of the aforementioned group. My experience of cannabis stoners is that it’s used to numb out and for escapism, which certainly aligns with what you’re saying.
Yes, people want to recreate, doing all kinds of activities with various levels of risk. They don't need to concern themselves with whether you can respect it.
Well, Id guess these are reasons for any case of substance missuse?
I have not met ANY regular drug user (regardless which drugs), who didnt had "frictions with parents" early in their life. (and some for which its still persisting into their 40ies)
Going on an actual calorie restricted diet while consuming cannabis is basically impossible for me.
Then instead of walking 60 minutes I end up sitting and listening to music.
There is really not anything for me that correlates with healthy behavior when I smoke.
Set and Setting are also relevant too. If you do it a soecfic way with other soecific tools and activities while on it, that all gets packaged and reinforced.
As the other comment says: set and setting. And it works both ways, you can take some memento with you, and when you're being quiet and introspective and you're feeling good fondle some fob: a keychain, a rosary, buddhist prayer beads, some macrame you're working on, it doesn't matter. Point is later when you're in a different situation, you can replay that ritualistic behavior and it will probably reach in and remind your body, which will then remind you mind. This is human nature: it's known that e.g. humans remember / forget things when passing through doorways, and some forms of acting use cues like this especially for emotional resonance.
I’m not sure what the first sentence is after, but this one reminded me of Michael Phelps.
^^ many of those are boring people.
Growing up I definitely knew some people who had their demons who turned to drugs.
However we also had a lot of people who were in good situations who picked up drugs for purely recreational reasons. One of my friends at the time even boasted that drugs were actually more appropriate for people like him who were educated, in good situations, and rational (his description of himself) because they knew how to manage themselves and their usage better. He even had links to some subset of the rationality community who had become pro-recreational drugs with a lot of justifications.
His turn to drug use marked the end of his promising academic career. He started struggling with mental health in ways that were obviously related to the drugs. Holding a job had never been a problem until he starting smoking, which marked his turn toward job struggles. His friends and family relationships started declining and falling apart.
He’s not the only one I know like this. The first person I knew who had to go to rehab for drug addiction was a happy, successful guy who started using drugs as a way to party more and for longer. He thought his life was awesome and he was invincible.
I think there’s become a belief that drug use is purely a symptom, but I’ve seen enough people go from happy to falling apart as an obvious result of the drug use. Most of the people I know who started using drugs didn’t do it at their homes in private to cope, they started doing it at parties with friends.
This is even well known with alcohol: There is common belief that being a “social drinker” is a different risk profile than someone who does their drinking alone.
I think it’s a comforting idea that we tell ourselves that nobody chooses to use drugs, they are driven to do so by circumstances out their control. We like removing blame from people and hoisting it on to the world. I don’t think it’s always true, though. Many people use drugs because drugs are rewarding (at first) and they like the way the drugs make them feel. The negative consequences come later.
I can have fun without drugs.
I am lonely. Weed makes me to fucked to care.
but sure, still lets make to account by other "legal" substances (alco, tobacco, cocaine, pharmaceutics and other "lifestyle choices" infecting cardiovascular system) and way they are consumed(smoked, ingested, pure or with say tobacco)
would love see data for a group who consumes cannabis by ingestion and especially not via smoking!
also- do they differ different thc/cbd grades used (high/low thc, "medical")?
im regards "research demonstrates something does this.." for many years alcohol was considered "healthier" over non consumption, just becauses non-drinkers were together with those of abstinent ex-alcholics.. thus average score was lower than for those who drunk minimal amounts and were considered "healthier".
So why don't we?
At some point in time, it's important to realize that not everyone optimizes for longevity, correctness, rationalism, and so on, and they just simply do what makes them feel good within the limited life that they have.
Nothing is intrinsically harmless. Cannabis can be devastating. But I was just sitting here doing work one day, got a hemorrhage in my eye, and lost half the sight in it. Otherwise, I'm supremely healthy. The cause: a gene.
That's just wrong. Why do you think their force retirement ages are so low?
There's always been a pragmatic center on cannabis, especially if you're somewhere where it's legalized.
In Canada, we have legal cannabis.
https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/drugs-medica...
When it was legalized, there was a documentation push and clear presentation of the downsides. In fact, as above, the language is mostly presented in the negative.
This matches the general sentiment of the broad population.
And let's not conflate things. The article is discussing smoked cannabis. This does not invalidate the essential substance and benefit of the experience. If we remove the ingestion method from the basket of effects, it's a different discussion.
Not all positive, yet smoking is clearly not good for you.
Full stop, no matter what it is.
about the 'study': I do not trust anything that comes out of meta studies given how many base studies are found to be either garbage or very lacking in controls. And without knowing an accurate life history it is hard to rule out or quantify damages done much earlier in life.
I don't think blanket advice like this is helpful. For me indicas increase my anxiety significantly while sativas do the opposite.
While not universally true, it seems that many of the sativas for sale are very high THC which probably is a primary factor. Other factors are terpenes, though there is still a lot of debate on whether it these are real or imagined effects.
Moderate THC (15-20%) indica or indica dominant hybrid flower, using a flower vape, IMHO, is the best way to go. Always a good idea to read strain reviews prior to purchase (or growing) as people will note those that have caused them to be anxious, sleepy, hungry, horny, etc.
People can also have very different reactions when taking a drug (weed, shrooms, lsd, etc) alone vs with friends, something to consider as well.
[Strain sativa/indica can sort of be an indicator, but going by the dose of each active ingredient is the more scientific approach]
Point being, ymmv.
From what I have seen, there are no side effects at all. They go back to smoking when the opportunity arises, but that's another story.
You haven’t seen enough.
People quit cigarettes without incident, too!
I would assume that cannabis use correlates with a few other important heart health variables and we would expect the odds ratio to be lower when accounting for those (alcohol doesn't have an OR more than 1.0, tobacco smoking ~1.5)
I'm sure that cannabis use is bad for cardio health but the reported odds ratio is very high. I personally do not use cannabis.
> Since both studies were limited by their retrospective nature and the meta-analysis was limited by the challenges inherent in pooling data from multiple studies, researchers said that additional prospective studies would help to confirm the findings and determine which groups may face the highest risk.
Here's the thing that both the alarmists and the naysayers keep ignoring: all this data is new, it's recent, and decades of effective global prohibition have meant the only sources of reliable data came from either post-war/pre-prohibition studies (often by Defense Departments) or from "anecdata" gathered retrospectively among large cohorts. We still lack a substantial amount of direct, quality, long-term data on drug use and Nth-order impacts on the body, and these studies are the first steps towards getting more data from higher quality research to draw better conclusions from.
If anything, I try to be quite open with my Doctors about my own use precisely because I know that data is thin and dated, and any contributions from patients in an honest manner is going to help draw better conclusions for healthcare guidance tomorrow. Letting alarmists use these thin precursors as justification for a return to total prohibition is the wrong move.
https://www.med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2022/04/marijuana...
Gummies and other edibles though require processing in the liver before they become active in the body (they are converted to a slightly different form of THC) so you would need to consider whether there are any negative effects on liver health from edibles and then compare to the various 'inhaled' methods.
General friendly advice - for anything not flower, try to get things that are made by live rosin (not resin) as they are the cleanest and should not involve the use of any hydrocarbon solvents for extraction. Live resin would be next, though it does use hydrocarbons. Distilliates which are often in vape cartridges are almost always made with hydrocarbons. While the production method shouldn't matter if everything is done 100% properly, it does require trust that all the butane, etc has been fully removed from the final product.
i don't beleive edibles are any safer