There's an opportunity to insert or remove a leap second twice a year. They only decide about 6 months in advance of each opportunity what to do (leap second, skipped second, or do nothing).
For those who need more context of who the Time Lords are
The Time Lords are a fictional ancient race of extraterrestrial people in the British science fiction television series Doctor Who. In-universe, they hail from the planet Gallifrey and are stated to have invented time travel technology.
I think if we're being pedantic, his name is "The Doctor". The TV show is named "Doctor Who" but the character doesn't call himself that and a name is what something is called.
I wasn’t being pedantic, I was (as per my words), providing further context. Anyone who has watched the show knows these things, they are basic information from it. My post and the one I replied to are (obviously) for people who know close to nothing about it, and those people won’t know who “The Doctor” is, the point was to make it clear it’s the main character.
In practice it will never affect anyone because it's a legal fiction, but even if you pretend to believe we would actually introduce this "leap hour" it would be in the distant future long after we're all dead and if there are still humans who have any idea the year 2026 happened they're not sure which of Donald Trump, Taylor Swift, Tony Stark and John McClane were real people.
Edited to add:
This is such a ridiculously long time frame that they might not be sure whether we were worried about climate change, for them that's either a disaster they survived (and maybe most didn't) or it's a weird blip in their historical charts which they struggle to explain. Did our civilisation do something very, very stupid? There is a flammable gas deep underground, did we set fire to it because we were crazy? Why the hell would we have done that? There are signs we deliberately set fire to the coal which is a toxic rock also found underground? That would explain the global climate going nuts. Maybe it was a ritual or something. Ancient people are mad.
Up until now we have added 1 leap second every 2 year (27 leap seconds since 1972). So if it continues like this, in 7200 years it would be 1 whole hour, and in "only" 3602 years it will be closer to the next hour than the previous (so a natural time to add the leap hour).
Timekeeping is timeless. We count the number of orbits around the Sun from a specific guy's birthday 2000 years ago, our 12 months are named after rulers of an empire that hasn't existed for almost as long, and weekdays are named after the pagan gods that guy replaced. I don't know why there are 7 days in a week, but supposedly there are 86400 seconds in a day because some Bronze Age people liked the numbers 60 and 12.
Even if one day humans have to account for relativity in their commute, their woes will pale in comparison with those of the poor soul who has to add support for it in a C library that only understands (now, 128-bit) Unix timestamps.
There's a graphic novel by Cixin Liu "The Wandering Earth" where they not only stop Earth's rotation with this method, but also propel Earth out of the solar system (for what appear to be good reasons, I might add). Can't quite remember what fuel they used for the engines.
They are good reasons. Conspiracy theorists are able to persuade almost everybody that the reasons were bullshit, an excuse to seize power or something, and so the few who still insist this was necessary and mustn't stop are executed. Almost immediately after those executions, Mother Nature proves them right. So that leaves everybody: Guilty of having murdered their saviours and with no choice but to carry on with the very plan they had insisted was bogus...
There is a Chinese movie but I'm kinda surprised no Hollywood studio got themselves a rights deal and made a US-friendly movie where the Sun conveniently blows up slightly earlier and our heroes are vindicated and everybody agrees they were right all along.
IIRC they accelerated rock as the reaction mass. Gigatons of rock accelerated to well above escape velocity and launched from the ground.
In the real world their scheme is doomed as it would strip the atmosphere off of the Earth, but since they were planning to leave the solar system the atmosphere was going to freeze to a solid anyway so maybe it didn't really matter. To be honest I thought the entire scheme was an extremely elaborate cover for the fact the lead ship was the actual ark and everyone else was just plain doomed. This would have mirrored one of the themes in the 3 Body Problem where interstellar space travel is strictly forbidden until everybody can participate at once. The "launch the Earth as a spaceship" concept was so poorly thought out I thought it had to be a fraud in the story, and our somewhat dense protagonists just didn't catch on.
Wouldn't it just be easier to have Superman fly around the planet a bunch of times really fast to do the same thing? Then you wouldn't have to worry about having to deal with all of that engine maintenance.
You could actually move very large quantities of water around and probably have a measurable impact. Like draining the California central valley aquifer.
The Three Gorges Dam has already given us 22 more microseconds in the year. Basically, the Chinese have converted the angular momentum of every molecule on Earth, including you... into electricity.
god that would be awful. Can you imagine time zones being one second off from each other. Or two or three? ah yes, india is GMT+4:30:03, where europe is GMT+0:59:58
I had not seen that. In the nineties I worked on an alerts system where you could sign up for like some sport or weather data at a certain time of day. We stored the alert times as minutes before midnight and then ran the time to trigger calculations often enough that unless you were some freak that wants weather alerts at 2 am it basically worked to send one alert each day at the appropriate time; we had a special non-OS copy of the tzdb as the users were global. One quarter I forgot to update it and everyone in Mexico City got their alerts one hour off till someone complained and I updated it. We also had data feed alerts, like score changed or stock hit x% over previous high, where the problem is some data is manually entered and can be off by a factor or two of ten from time to time. Had to be filtered. I had a lot of fun.
Right, and orders of magnitude more people have to deal with UTC and timezones compared to TAI and the offset. So it's good to have it in the layer that it's in
The changes in Earth's rotational speed that leap seconds help account for affect the whole globe. Why shouldn't the effects be noted in the global time standard?
The leap day system handles the mean, the leap seconds handle the variance around the mean. The need for leap seconds is not predictable—they zero out accumulated error.
No, they handle totally different things. Leap seconds handle the earth spinning at a varying speed. They would be a problem even if the sun didn't exist. Leap years handle the fact that earth spins don't evenly divide orbits around the sun. They would be a problem even if clocks didn't exist.
We can imagine a system where leap days are split into mean and variance: This would look like a council coming together every thousand years to decide if that year will have a leap day or not, but otherwise we follow the pattern.
We can also imagine a system where leap seconds are split into mean and variance: Many years from now when the Earth is notably slower, there's a guaranteed leap second every odd month, and sometimes there's an extra leap second in June.
That would create much more chaos, because every region autonomously decides on its timezone(s). You'd have different countries and/or timezones using different leap second counts.
Yes! I yearn for the day when central daylight savings time is 1:00:00:36 behind eastern time, but standard central time remains offset by 1 hour exactly (except for leap years, which are obviously 1:00:00:36 offset all year round).
I've often dreamed of and revisited this idea. I first started thinking of it seriously when I realized I was paying the same rent in February as in January despite a significantly shorter-than-mean (30.4375) month...!
My ideal year is 12 months, each 5 weeks long, each week 6 days long. At the summer solstice, 3 intercalary days (bank holidays), at the winter solstice, 2 or 3 intercalary days depending on leap year.
They're cool people but like it doesn't stop the world from imploding. Most of all of our code is full of trivial bugs and edge cases and most people don't mind too much. Certainly no one cares about leap seconds, they hardly even notice DST or leap days
> This means the atomic clock is behind the solar clock by 37 seconds?
If anything, it's the other way around.
A UTC day is defined as exactly 86400 SI seconds. But an actual mean solar day is a few milliseconds longer (although the difference is not constant due to irregularities in the Earth's rotation--but the average difference is expected to slowly increase over time). SI seconds are counted by atomic clocks, so UTC advances its day by one every 86400 atomic clock seconds.
But a solar clock that advances its day by one every time the mean sun reaches noon (it has to be the mean sun because the rate at which the actual sun moves across the sky varies over the course of a year, we need to look at the average) will advance its day a few milliseconds later than UTC does. Or, to put it another way, each time period that the solar clock says is exactly 86400 seconds, is a few milliseconds longer according to the atomic clock.
As this happens day after day, the difference accumulates, and when it gets close to being a full second, a leap second gets inserted into UTC, so that one of its days is 86401 seconds long instead of 86400. The reason for this is that UTC is not just counting atomic clock time; it also has to stay in sync with where the sun is in the sky since so many human activities are tied to that. And we humans have defined "in sync with the sun" to be "within a second of the average sun". In other words, we want UTC noon to be within a second of mean solar noon on the prime meridian.
So the 37 seconds is how far mean solar noon would be behind UTC noon, if we didn't use leap seconds--at UTC noon, the mean sun would be 37 seconds short of actually crossing the prime meridian in the sky.
"In other words, we want UTC noon to be within a second of mean solar noon on the prime meridian."
Why?
If I travel 1 mile east or west of the prime meridian, my solar noon now comes 2-3 seconds earlier/later. It's nearly impossible to have your local time match your local solar noon. For most of the population, solar noon is, on average, 30 minutes off of 12:00 noon.
Um, because it's the prime meridian and that's how UTC is defined?
> It's nearly impossible to have your local time match your local solar noon.
Which is why I specified on the prime meridian, which is the particular local meridian that UTC is defined as corresponding to.
> solar noon varies from day to day by 10-20 seconds.
Which is why I was careful to specify mean solar noon.
I'm not quite sure what your issue is. Yes, we have time zones tied to specific meridians, and the actual sun's speed in the sky varies (which I mentioned in my post, so I'm not sure why you seem to think I'm unaware of it) so in most places local time by the clock doesn't match local time by the sun. Yes, a leap second adjustment to UTC is quite a bit smaller, taken in isolation, than the annual variation in actual solar time vs. mean solar time.
But over time, if we didn't have leap seconds, the difference would accumulate. The accumulated difference now between UTC and TAI is 37 seconds--which is almost twice the maximum variation in actual solar noon from mean solar noon that you refer to. We humans have collectively decided that we don't want that, and that it's better to do the adjustments a little at a time rather than in bigger lumps.
"But over time, if we didn't have leap seconds, the difference would accumulate. The accumulated difference now between UTC and TAI is 37 seconds--which is almost twice the maximum variation in actual solar noon from mean solar noon that you refer to."
No, the 10-15 seconds I mentioned is the daily variation in solar noon.
From the link I posted, in NYC, solar noon on 2026-01-01 is at 11:59am. On 2026-01-31, solar noon is at 12:09pm. In one month, it has drifted 10 minutes. That's much greater than the 37 leap seconds we have added in 60 years.
"We humans have collectively decided that we don't want that, and that it's better to do the adjustments a little at a time rather than in bigger lumps."
Yet we just reversed that decision. No more leap seconds after 2035. After trying it, we decided it was terrible.
> the 10-15 seconds I mentioned is the daily variation in solar noon.
Yes, but averaged over an entire year, it still comes out to zero. The difference between mean solar and atomic time does not. It accumulates over the years.
> we just reversed that decision
We paused it for 100 years after 2035. That doesn't change the physical fact that the Earth's rotation will continue to slow over the long term. We might eventually decide to just not care about that when it comes to civil timekeeping, but that's not what the decision you're referring to did. It just said we can afford to let the difference between UTC and TAI accumulate from 2035 to 2135 (by which time it is predicted to be about a minute) while we figure out what we want to do over the longer term.
> Um, because it's the prime meridian and that's how UTC is defined?
That's an explanation of how it is, not why we should care to preserve it.
The definitions of hours minutes and seconds have changed before, and in recent history.
> Which is why I was careful to specify mean solar noon.
And "mean solar noon" is meaningless to people's lives. Even in the areas where time zones do follow meridians and not country borders that are many minutes off.
> The definitions of hours minutes and seconds have changed before, and in recent history.
In terms of what physical process we use to set the standard, yes. But those very changes were made to try to preserve the same time periods that were important to humans. In other words, to not change what hours, minutes, and seconds mean intuitively to us humans as we go about our daily lives.
I completely disagree. The intuitive meaning is that a day is 24 hours and you can divide that by 60 twice. But that makes the second vary by some parts per billion, so we nailed down the second to make the technical side easier at the expense of relatability.
> we nailed down the second to make the technical side easier at the expense of relatability.
Would you also say that getting rid of leap seconds and allowing UTC to gradually drift away from the sun is making the technical side easier at the expense of relatability?
> The intuitive meaning is that a day is 24 hours and you can divide that by 60 twice.
And that's exactly why the SI second has the length that it has--to be as close as possible in terms of how atomic clocks work to 1/86400 of an Earth mean solar day at a chosen epoch. (Note that the actual definition before the atomic clock one was adopted was in terms of the Earth's tropical year at that epoch--but the fraction of the tropic year that was chosen was to line up the second with 1/86400 of an epoch day.) If we didn't care about "relatability", nobody would have gone to all the trouble of trying to determine how many cesium clock oscillations there were in 1/86400 of an epoch day.
I'm not so sure. The concept of 24 hours in a day originates in civil timekeeping, yes, but not minutes and seconds. Those originally came from astronomy, and corresponded to angles, not times, and those angles are constants; they don't change as the Earth's rotation slows down or as its speed in orbit around the Sun changes over the course of a year. I don't think people's intuitive concept of minutes and seconds is that they vary according to the time of year or the tidal effects on the Earth.
> I don't think people's intuitive concept of minutes and seconds is that they vary according to the time of year or the tidal effects on the Earth.
But if you asked people to choose between "seconds vary by an imperceptible amount, less than your clocks naturally drift" and "an hour doesn't have 3600 seconds" I bet most will pick the former.
And it doesn't have to drift day by day, you can average it over a multi-year period.
It's going to be weird once the earth slows down enough that we'd need a leap second every day or two. Once you can't ignore the drift anymore, the system we chose is significantly unintuitive.
> If we didn't care about "relatability", nobody would have gone to all the trouble of trying to determine how many cesium clock oscillations there were in 1/86400 of an epoch day.
I'm not saying we didn't care about it, I'm saying we didn't put it as top priority. We went with a nice clean fixed-length second that will drift away from the Earth over time. And it wasn't/isn't that hard to determine the number of oscillations since "matching" the Earth's unstable speed has a huge margin you can land within.
> Would you also say that getting rid of leap seconds and allowing UTC to gradually drift away from the sun is making the technical side easier at the expense of relatability?
Yes.
I'm in favor of both, to be honest. But it's a tradeoff, and it's a tradeoff that weakens the layman's definition of a second.
What causes the unpredictability in this? I would have guessed we have earth's rotation and orbit down to many decimals. Does geological activity, weather, or something else cause rotation speed differences that we just can't predict?
In short, yes, the weather, geology, and signicantly, human movement of water via aquifer draining and dam building, as well as glaicial and ice melts, all contribute to unpredictable changes in the earths rotational period, as well as the axis of rotation. The models for this are IIRC trigonometric polynomials of fairly low order, so even if we could model the unpredictability perfectly, truncation error would limit our ability to distribute the model at super high accuracy. The existing models are built in to, eg, satellites, so you can't just make them arbitrarily complex.
Fun fact: leap seconds will stop being a thing soonish. I think they phase out in 2035, with a delay because Russia needed time to update glassnoss satellites.
(Note: on mobile, this is from memory, details need checking ;))
A frightening fact, the 2011 magnitude 9.0 Tohoku Earthquake shifted the position of the Earth's figure axis about 17 centimeters, making days about 1.8 microseconds shorter.
Everybody agreed that "Leap seconds" are a sufficiently bad idea that they should be replaced by 2035. Nobody has agreed how to fix it, and "Just turn them off" isn't technically legal. However, "What if there were Leap hours instead?" is technically legal and of course those hours would happen in the very distant future (likely after our civilisation is gone) so it's functionally identical to "Just turn them off" but without legal problems.
Now, I'm English, and England loves this sort of hack. You may have heard that controversial UK politician Nigel Farage "resigned" as a Westminster MP recently and that's not technically true because you can't resign, historically people hated that job and so you can't resign and we never changed that, but what you can do, and everybody does, is get assigned an "Office of profit" in which legally the King is paying you, an MP can't work for the King so you can't be an MP any more. The "Offices of profit" in question aren't real jobs† and don't pay real money, like this "Leap Hour" they'd be a legal fiction. So everybody says you "resigned" but in fact you legally can't do that...
† I mean, historically they were real jobs that made sense which is why the King paid somebody to do them, but England is very, very old so they haven't made sense for centuries and serve only as a legal fiction today.
There's a long tradition in the UK of having electoral candidates who don't expect to win but run because it's free publicity in a high profile race. "Count Binface" is a comedian who dresses up as a space alien whose outfit resembles well, having a Bin for a face. The serious political parties told Nigel to fuck off, if he wants to step down and then immediately contest the same seat they wouldn't run against him in this farce, but Binface isn't a serious politician so he is running in that by-election.
Nigel wanted to be able to do this whole thing about how the establishment is rotten and he (Wealthy public schoolboy who keeps lying to people and doesn't bother going to Parliament even though he was elected to do so) is a true man of the people and can put things right. It got him this far in life. But with the other candidate on your ballot being a space alien it's obvious which of these options is really "the establishment" and it's not the guy whose policies include "Building at least one house†" and who says he comes from a different planet...
† British political parties often insist they will build lots of housing because that's popular with voters. But, in practice they don't tend to really deliver because the various groups lobby not to actually build. So "at least one house" is a joke about this phenomenon, while conveniently also being technically possible, Binface could just build a house, that's a thing you can do.
I think it's more than publicity. Anyone can stand as a candidate, and anyone can vote for them. Money and connections and establishment and everything else don't matter, all candidates are equal on that stage. It's both weird and to be admired.
Nigel Farage has decided to counter a scandal by throwing himself upon his constituents for judgement, the obviously establishment parties have backed off to allow Binface to run against him in a ~1v1, and you think Binface is more anti establishment than Farage?
The "establishment" parties' argument seems to be that they wanted to wait for the results of the commision into Farage's allegedly dodgy finances before triggering a by-election, and are refusing to play ball with his attempt to get a popular mandate before all the facts are known.
Binface has always involved himself in well-publicised constituency races, the idea that this was some pre-planned operation by "the establishment" (as you are implying) stretches credulity. None of the other parties have endorsed Binface, they all seem to have expected Farage to win anyway.
Yes, the MP, former MEP, and founder of a significant political party is closer to being “the establishment” than the comedy candidate dressed up as a rubbish bin.
The ex stockbroker who lunches with presidents and takes £5m personal bribes in charge of a party sticked with ex ministers of the crown (at least one who took a bribe) is clearly not the establishment.
This seems like an interesting solution, even if it's absurdist at first thought. What if we just shift the steel bar in Greenwich 20 metres east or west instead of adding a leap second?
Then everything would theoretically be correct. The logical next thing to do would be to move all the time zones as well. But time zones already don't coincide with the lines of longitude in practice; they tend to follow country or internal boundaries somewhat close to the lines of longitude (but sometimes multiple hours away!). After a few thousand leap seconds, maybe one or two countries would feel it was helpful to readjust a time zone boundary to better align with solar time, but in practice this would never be the overriding reason for that decision.
You say people's GPS systems would all suddenly be wrong because they depend on locations in latitude and longitude? I don't think this is a problem either: in practice longitude and latitude are given not relative to the steel bar in Greenwich, but to per-continent geodetic datum points. This already prevents continental drift from affecting your coordinates, though a big earthquake can still mess things up.
On the subject of amusing British political legislation, should he defeat Nigel Farage in the resulting by-election Count Binface will not be able to wear his costume in Parliament; not only is business attire required in the House of Commons, it's specifically forbidden to wear a suit of armour there due to a law from the 14th century.
For those unaware, the major parties have declined to participate in the by-election triggered by Farage's resignation seeing the whole thing as a farce. As a result Farage will likely face only Count Binface, a space warrior from Sigma Six. He'd get my vote purely on the basis that he's promised to bring back Ceefax, and build at least one affordable house.
Quite a few MPs in Westminster already don't take their physical seats in Parliament (and never vote or address the House) because the conditions attached to doing so aren't compatible with their principles. Maybe Count Binface will be the next.
More specifically, that refers to the Northern Irish MPs from the Sinn Féin party who do not recognise the UK Crown as a lawful authority in NI, and hence, refuse to take an oath of allegiance to it. (They used to not recognise the Republic of Ireland as well, until the 1980s I think.)
I think they don't approve of the Crown as an authority even if they agree it's lawfully established?
It's more like an atheist refusing to swear an oath before God in a courtroom: even if you agree that the law says you must do so, you might still not want to give God that recognition. But worse, because God might also be the defendant and the judge in this case, and you have to swear not only that He might witness your testimony but also that you pledge allegiance to Him, so swearing that oath really impairs your ability to participate in a fair trial.
For oath swearing it turns out atheists weren't why we fixed that. Some of the Christians also refuse to swear oaths. For Quakers obviously God exists - they're Christians, but a mere court of law here on Earth is no reason to go around swearing when they believe God has explicitly ordered them never to do that. They'd need orders from God, not some judge.
So for them rather than for atheists England made it possible to Affirm that you're not lying. This will work in Parliament, and it's pretty routine these days that a new member is like nope, no swearing for me, I can promise I'm not lying but I never swear or I won't swear to God.
However, Parliament does require allegiance to the King because this is a constitutional monarchy, if they wanted to be a Republic they'd get rid of the King as a group, that's not up to you as an individual member. Not much notice is taken of how much you seem to mean it about allegiance to the King, because after all plenty of members are known to hold Republican sentiments, but you are required to say the words unlike the stuff about swearing which is optional.
It's understood by constituents that a vote for a Sinn Féin representative is a protest vote that results in specifically nobody going to Westminster to represent you. I cannot imagine that any significant number of people vote for them and are then astonished when this has the effect everybody else expects.
On the other hand, Binface has not, as I understand it, ever said he would not serve if elected. He's made it clear that he's not from Clacton (or Makerfield) -- because he's a space alien -- but I believe he said if he won he would move there so that's fair enough if the constituents want him. They previously elected Nigel, and he's rarely in either parliament or Clacton so Binface can't be worse than that.
Either way, it's a contest already bringing out the sporting punters and popcorn eaters of Australia: Joke Candidate To Face Count Binface in UK By-Election
Likewise, nobody will be all that surprised, or disappointed, if Binface never takes his seat. It's much more of a protest vote than voting Sinn Féin in Northern Ireland, and voters will have achieved their aim of Farage not getting in.
Actually, I'd take issue with describing Sinn Féin as a protest vote at all. They've historically been the only choice that even claim to represent constituents in many areas. And they do seem to do much of the work of an MP (writing letters on behalf of constituents, lobbying government agencies...) they just don't vote or debate.
Agree that SF is not a protest vote but they do vote and debate. Since their first major electoral victory over 100 years ago they have been clear that they represent their constituents to the best of their abilities (I won't opine on the quality of representation in this forum). That has always involved a cabinet, votes, debates, and eventually a bicameral legislature.
The key aspect is that they consider the English government to be a foreign government and so they avoid involving it in the work that they do in Ireland for their Irish constituency. Statements about the illegitimacy of their government historically come from conservative English sources. But the fact is those SF debates in their "protest government" formed the foundation of the modern Irish state. They are a protest vote in the same way that the US Constitutional Convention was.
By the same token, they consider legislating on affairs that pertain to the English, Welsh, and Scots to be none of their business. To take up seats in a foreign parliament would be to meddle in the affairs of a foreign, sovereign nation. And that would be hypocrisy!
The thing is, an SF MP can't vote or debate because they, by policy, refuse to attend.
You're correct that the party has representatives in the other bodies which it does recognise but those aren't the same people.
So for example Órfhlaith Begley was elected MP for West Tyrone. Her voters will have known she's not going to Westminster, and she didn't - but she's not in some parallel institution instead, AFAIK there isn't one. Nicola Brogan represents West Tyrone as an MLA in Stormont, because Sinn Féin does recognise the Assembly and you can't say well but there's a body in Dublin. Dublin doesn't control West Tyrone so what would she even do there?
But Órfhlaith Begley does go to Westminster, and she has an access badge for the Houses of Parliament, and she flies over there and works in her office in the parliament buildings and answers her @parliament.co.uk emails and asks her staffers (paid for by the parliament) to respond to letters on paper headed Órfhlaith Begley MP. All the work of an MP except the most performative part.
She just doesn't go into the room which is called the House of Commons and try to speak or vote there, because the armed guards at the door won't let in anyone who doesn't swear allegiance to the King. If swearing allegiance to the King was a requirement to use the email system, then she wouldn't do that either.
Fascinating, I didn't know that they actually physically travel to Westminster. That does seem like quite a trip given they could work from home. I'm also not sure how effective you can be in this way, but of course it's really up to her constituents not me whether they feel adequately represented.
I think it's parliament.uk rather than parliament.co.uk by the way.
You're absolutely right that they aren't in a parallel institution. As I understand it, the SF perspective is that there is no legitimate government representing the people of West Tyrone (other than Stormont, which is complicated). I think it sounds like we're saying the same thing but there's a subtle interpretation difference. When Idi Amin declared himself to be the King of Scotland the Scots didn't send representatives to Uganda to form a government. The SF position since their Árd Fheis before the 1919 elect has been to treat Westminster like Idi Amin. To simply engage in a conversation about Idi Amin's claim to the throne of Scotland would be to give him too much credibility.
So the core issue, from the Republican perspective, is that the people of West Tyrone are denied representation at the national level in Ireland by a foreign government. Once that representation is achieved the SF representatives will participate in it. (again, not trying to address the merits; just clarify the logic)
Binface's speculation to the media is that the Monster Raving Loony party may split the vote with Farage instead as that is closer to where his loyalties lie.
Their policies are obviously not compatible, I just don't see how that could work out for either party. Sure you could get more votes that way, but the honourable thing to do is to run seperately.
How is this relevant to the current topic? I don't have any context on political stories you are discussing, but I am fairly sure that this isn't the place to do so, not at least this thread.
More appropiate would be the legal inability to resign from the house of commons, thus having to be appointed to a specific office of the crown which is incompatible with being a member of the commons.
There were arguments that the government should refuse Farage's appointment because he's doing it to stop the clock on investigation into his various financial dealings. While against constitutional law to decline such, it was discussed in similar situations in the past - fairly recently in fact for the same reason -- Henry Cadogan in 1842
On the subject of headwear in parliament, I quote the member for Hereford who yesterday in parliament said:
> How very different from the forthcoming by-election in Clacton, which appears to be a choice between a novelty comedy act with no real policies, and Count Binface. It is a long time since we had a count in the House of Commons, and when the time comes—as it surely will—we will have to leave to you, Mr Speaker, the delicate question of whether and how to suspend the rules on headgear in the Chamber for the new Member.
Which implies that the laws around headgear are at the behest of the Speaker.
There is precedent in electoral history for election of people dressed as a figure -- H'Angus the Monkey (a football mascott, not an actual monkey) was elected Mayor. However on the ballot paper his entry was
STUART DRUMMOND Independent
Where as Binface's is
Count BINFACE Count Binface Party
Given Farage received a mere 45% in 2024, and a unity candidate beat an incumbant mp who previosuly had 55% and was mired in a similar scandal back in 1997, it's not impossible.
Between 2002 and 2013, Hartlepool in North East England elected a local football mascot known as H'Angus the Monkey as their mayor, winning three elections. I think he did ditch the monkey costume between elections, maybe Binface could do the same?
Basically we guessed wrong. We thought knowing "Solar time" would be more useful than in it, and we thought these "Leap seconds" would be less trouble than they are.
It's like you buy a cat to help with your rodent problem, figuring the cat will eat mice and isn't much trouble to look after, but after purchasing a cat you find that your problem was actually rats, your cat is terrified of these large dangerous creatures and sometimes gets bitten by them necessitating expensive vet bills and now you need to pay a lot of attention to the poor animal and also now need to buy cat food.
Heh, I like the analogy but my question was really why it was considered such a hassle.
I mean we deal with daylight saving time all the time and I know it's not the same because the leap second affects UTC, not just local time zone, it's just that you are either dealing with monotonically increasing time like epoch, or you are dealing with "human" time and I found no distinction in the latter.
Is it "just" that leap seconds or delay seconds caused problems in epoch to utc conversion? Note the just in quotes, but did I just answer my own question? :)
It's a hassle for anybody doing or recording "physics" as they cannot log against UTC (which may or may not have an added second or removed second in some interval if it happens to overlap the adjustment zone).
Those things that really do rely on actual "elapsed time" rather than the difference between two recorded "book times".
Does this happen? Yes, a few times in my career in geophysical exploration - it's why multiple bits of gear are synced to a reference "real clock" which gets logged against the raw GPS epoch time (real time since Sunday last week(?)) and processed "UTC" time (some variation of it).
The most annoying part is that a lot of GPS gear automatically "corrects" to UTC without giving clear indication of it. Things would'be been fine if the standard was to explicitly sent out TAI timestamps, with a leap second offset for the people who insist on UTC.
Well, yeah, that to - although TBH it's never been an issue in my line of work which started with (LORAN actually, and then moved to..) off book reverse engineering of the OG NavStar format. To this day it's still "raw" GPS packets that are logged - and later post processed for greater accuracy (and often blended with a local area fixed position base stations "corrections" for GPS fix wobble).
There's a lot of fiddly pedantic stuff that goes with scientific data recording, timekeeping is but one domain of possible issues.
The real problem is they made Unix time non-monotonic. So there is no agreed universal monotonic clock.
We also don't deal with DST very well either. You won't believe the amount of programs written that treat local time as monotonic. It causes all kinds of problems and most people roll their eyes when someone who knows pipes up about local time and time zones etc.
It's not solving a very important problem and the edge cases it introduces makes software more complex and bug prone
If the world weren't entirely reliant on software to the extent it is today (like when leap seconds were introduced in the 70s), it wouldn't matter as much.
The co-ordinated universal time, UTC exists by international agreement. In the 1960s lots of countries signed a treaty so that's the "authority" AIUI.
The treaty says everybody agrees that this new standard will try to track "solar time" which felt intuitively reasonable. They want something equivalent to the old GMT which was really based on solar time, except more modern. At first the idea was, well, we just work out how fast this damp rock spins more precisely and we can use that to ensure everything works forever.
More precise measurements of the damp rock showed that, annoyingly, Mother Nature did not provide the spinning rock as a precise clock, it spins slower and faster according to a huge number of variables and so the best we can do is measure the spinning against an actual clock. So, "Leap seconds" were born to meet that legal requirement to have UTC match the solar time.
The "leap hour" would likewise fulfil this requirement, just in a deliberately useless way because we actually do not care about precisely tracking solar time. If we did, almost every human in the world would be perpetually annoyed because of course our present system of "time zones" means on average we're at least 30 minutes wrong!
Everybody agreed that "Leap seconds" are a sufficiently bad idea
No. Not everybody. I prefer accurate time, and all the complaints I've heard hold little water.
My servers need to timesync forwards and back all the time, eg timedrift. They need to jump to new times, or slowly drift, depending.
VMs can be hypervisor starved, or need to move to a new host.
Servers also need to handle missing time. Any daemon or program which cannot handle this is buggy, broken, and needs to deal.
Leap seconds are just part of all of this, and present no new issues compared to normal time change. I question the capabilities of any engineer who singles out time second as difficult to deal with, time is constantly changing on servers. Constantly.
So back to the start, no... everybody doesn't agree. Google isn't "everybody".
Accurate to what though, and for what? We decide what the standard is, and it seems like it would be a lot easier to have accurate time if we aren’t adding or subtracting seconds here or there. Does it really matter if the sun crests the horizon a second earlier than it did ten years ago? If it does, isn’t it much easier to just adjust your sun-cresting time?
That actually sounds like the worst of all possible worlds!
It's infrequent enough that most systems won't bother implementing it, but a big enough time difference that it absolutely must be handled correctly at the right instant.
You'd be setting yourself up for a millennium bug-sized panic every century. And the instant that the generation that experiences one retires, their successors will start saying "there's not going to be a leap minute for the next couple of decades, and there's no chance our code will still be running then...", and the cycle will start afresh!
It's caused significant controversy in my (former colony) country where all other long-term leases are 99 years. The landowners are insisting it must have been a typo and they want their land back.
Congratulations, you've managed to turn an informative thread into a completely useless political nonsense, now that should be a crowning achievement for you as an English. For the rest of us in the world, we couldn't give a rat's arse about your politics, it's irrelevant.
> because Russia needed time to update glonass satellites.
Why is this? As leap seconds don’t occur on a regular frequency, I assume they are not hardcoded on the software or hardware on board, but the control centre uploads them on the satellites enough in advance once they have been scheduled. So why can’t the control centre just stop sending those updates?
My understanding the problem is that GLONASS is aware of leap seconds at all. It sends messages in UTC, which has this leap second funny business. GPS uses a special "GPS time" (sometimes abbreviated UT) that doesn't have a leap second. For further confusion, the leap second ensures that UTC is never more than 0.9 seconds off of mean solar time, aka UT1.
This type of assumption that was made early in a massive software and hardware project that's now been ossified for ~50 years is going to be hard to change.
> The models for this are IIRC trigonometric polynomials of fairly low order, so even if we could model the unpredictability perfectly, truncation error would limit our ability to distribute the model at super high accuracy. The existing models are built in to, eg, satellites, so you can't just make them arbitrarily complex.
What are the satellites doing with the models? They're not deciding leap seconds on their own, I hope. So I don't see why the leap second decision would be locked to low accuracy.
Also I would expect doubling the precision to give you a 3-4x slowdown on the math or adding orders to have less effect, and the amount of available computation spent on those models to be like a tenth of a percent at most, so the extra cycles wouldn't be an issue. What am I missing here?
To me it seems like unpredictability is the only real issue.
Phasing out leap seconds is such a crack pot idea. Read the resolution [1]. The conclusion hinges entirely on accepting the immutability of these 2 premises:
recalling that the CGPM at its 26th meeting (2018)
- stated that UTC is the only recommended time scale for international reference and the basis of civil time in most countries,
- recommended all relevant unions and organizations to work together to develop a common understanding on the realization and dissemination of reference time scales with a view to considering the present limitation on the maximum magnitude of UT1 - UTC to meet the needs of the current and future user communities,
I accept all the other premises from the resolution, but then the obvious conclusion should be to just recommend TAI instead of UTC for any application that could be disrupted by leap seconds, instead of butchering UTC and turning it into just a worse version of TAI.
Among other things, turbulent currents of liquid iron in the Earth's core can make the core drift eastward or westward, which causes the crust and mantle to turn slower or faster. Same thing with the strength of the jet stream.
Quite the opposite. The earth's rotation can vary by quite a few seconds each year. But over hundreds of years, the variations mostly cancel out, which is why I think trying to add or remove leap seconds are a bad idea. The only people who care about such things are space agencies, and they can apply whatever offset they want, it doesn't need to affect everyone else.
Arguably, the only real-world impact this drift has on normal people is GPS, but GPS already transmits an offset from its own clock so that receivers can correct for that. The GPS clock is different both from UTC and TIA.
I don't think we know this do we? we haven't been measuring accurately enough for long enough to be confident that it does in fact cancel out. In fact for the period of time where we've been applying leap seconds they were happening with significant frequency and always in the same direction. It's only been very recently that there's been the realistic suggestion it might drift in the other direction.
If anything people have been suggesting that if we do get rid of leap seconds that we can just wait until the offset is enormous instead (say an hour) because it would take a very long time to happen. But even still, that does actually affect everyday people (because people would surely notice when solar noon is an hour later/earlier). Although pragmatically the obvious solution there is to change timezone instead.
This announcement is very much a nothing burger; it’s already been more or less decided that adding leap seconds just isn’t going to be a thing anymore (in our lifetime). Here’s on article from 2022: https://www.timeanddate.com/news/astronomy/end-of-leap-secon...
Whenever leap seconds were added, Google was running the clocks on their servers slower/faster over a longer period of time (hours) so they would slowly drift back in sync with the solid platinum, perfectly spherical grandfather's clock sitting in NIST or whatever: https://developers.google.com/time/smear
Yes, time() and clock_gettime(CLOCK_REALTIME) results are affected by leap seconds.
New leap second will get to your system through NTP. Sadly NTP only distributes indicator flag that leap second is going to be introduced, but not the offset itself. But the distributed time itself is already affected by leap second, so NTP client doesn't really need to know.
(In contrast the other time sync mechanisms - GPS and PTP - use time scale unaffected by leap seconds and distribute it as an additional information with UTC offset. And it's left on client to modify received time on its end. Kernel has a parameters in clock_adjtime() for leap seconds.)
So if you have a passive system that has NTP client then it's time will change for new leap second on runtime. Linux treats UTC time as the dominant one, so that's the one saved to RTC device and will survive reboot.
There is CLOCK_TAI that sounds like it should return TAI time, but it is such a second class citizen to the point that nothing on regular Linux desktop and server distros even set the offset and it returns the same time as CLOCK_REALTIME.
There is a file in /etc with list of leap seconds that is part of some package, so you need to update the system to update this file. I don't believe traditional NTP software updates this package dynamically. But not many software uses it. If some init service script parsed and set the kernel UTC offset then your system's CLOCK_TAI would be one second late from rest of the world until update. But it doesn't affect UTC time on Linux in any way I know.
Isn't this anti-news? I vaguely remember they have stopped introducing leap seconds until further notice because they cause too much trouble with today's computing systems. On my phone now and did not research it, as I say vaguely remember. Now we are 37 seconds off. Nobody of us will have to worry that Christmas is around Easter time. We can leave that problem to future generations much more responsibly than many other problems.
That the notice comes every 6 months is just to meet the letter of the original international treaty.
The fact that it’s only 6 months seems insane to me and probably the cause of the problem, if time was +- 60 seconds nobody would notice, so a more manageable solution would be to implement an arbitrary leap about once a decade, with a decades notice so everyone can sort their systems with plenty of notice. 6 months for a world wide coordinated execution is laughably optimistic.
No, they haven't done that yet. It's just a proposal, but it's not likely to be formally stopped until 2035.
The reason we've stopped having leap seconds is because the drift between TAI and UT1 slowed down and has actually been very slowly drifting in the other direction.
With the Temporal API will all of the browsers / nodejs etc be able to get the time right when performing operations around that time or will they need to be updated in order to not mess up calculations?
Temporal API seems to be based around Unix/POSIX timestamps, which ignore leap seconds. In Unix time a day is always 86400 "seconds". This makes it trivial to do UTC calendar arithmetic into the past and future without recourse to a database and without necessarily having to deal with fractional seconds. Leap seconds are handled by the OS by repeating a second or slewing the length of a second.
Most datetime APIs are fundamentally designed and intended for supporting calendar and wall clock operations for business functions. If you need SI seconds for scientific purposes, you really need to use alternative APIs and facilities that provide and guarantee the semantics required all the way down to the hardware level. Likewise, if you want timers, etc, for software facilities like thread sleeping, you use dedicated interfaces like monotonic clocks. If leap seconds are phased out, this won't really change the situation. It was wrong for software to rely on Unix timestamps for, e.g., mutex algorithms before and it'll be wrong if and when leap second clock adjustments are gone.
190 comments
[ 2.7 ms ] story [ 35.5 ms ] threadThe Time Lords are a fictional ancient race of extraterrestrial people in the British science fiction television series Doctor Who. In-universe, they hail from the planet Gallifrey and are stated to have invented time travel technology.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Lord
Even the titles are sci-fi.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_Defense_Coordination...
Is it a headache or a non-issue
Meanwhile....
International timekeepers to vote on changing the leap second to a leap hour
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/international-tim... (https://archive.ph/GnQUj https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48842329)
In practice it will never affect anyone because it's a legal fiction, but even if you pretend to believe we would actually introduce this "leap hour" it would be in the distant future long after we're all dead and if there are still humans who have any idea the year 2026 happened they're not sure which of Donald Trump, Taylor Swift, Tony Stark and John McClane were real people.
Edited to add:
This is such a ridiculously long time frame that they might not be sure whether we were worried about climate change, for them that's either a disaster they survived (and maybe most didn't) or it's a weird blip in their historical charts which they struggle to explain. Did our civilisation do something very, very stupid? There is a flammable gas deep underground, did we set fire to it because we were crazy? Why the hell would we have done that? There are signs we deliberately set fire to the coal which is a toxic rock also found underground? That would explain the global climate going nuts. Maybe it was a ritual or something. Ancient people are mad.
Even if one day humans have to account for relativity in their commute, their woes will pale in comparison with those of the poor soul who has to add support for it in a C library that only understands (now, 128-bit) Unix timestamps.
[Spoiler]
They are good reasons. Conspiracy theorists are able to persuade almost everybody that the reasons were bullshit, an excuse to seize power or something, and so the few who still insist this was necessary and mustn't stop are executed. Almost immediately after those executions, Mother Nature proves them right. So that leaves everybody: Guilty of having murdered their saviours and with no choice but to carry on with the very plan they had insisted was bogus...
There is a Chinese movie but I'm kinda surprised no Hollywood studio got themselves a rights deal and made a US-friendly movie where the Sun conveniently blows up slightly earlier and our heroes are vindicated and everybody agrees they were right all along.
In the real world their scheme is doomed as it would strip the atmosphere off of the Earth, but since they were planning to leave the solar system the atmosphere was going to freeze to a solid anyway so maybe it didn't really matter. To be honest I thought the entire scheme was an extremely elaborate cover for the fact the lead ship was the actual ark and everyone else was just plain doomed. This would have mirrored one of the themes in the 3 Body Problem where interstellar space travel is strictly forbidden until everybody can participate at once. The "launch the Earth as a spaceship" concept was so poorly thought out I thought it had to be a fraud in the story, and our somewhat dense protagonists just didn't catch on.
It would have to be rockets. My napkin says 2B starship boosters and 250K tons of propellant per second should give us around 1 second per year.
They should live in the same abstraction layer that does leap days and daylight savings: the time zones.
The point is that it's weird that we handle a day every 4 years off in a different way to a couple of second being off.
We can imagine a system where leap days are split into mean and variance: This would look like a council coming together every thousand years to decide if that year will have a leap day or not, but otherwise we follow the pattern.
We can also imagine a system where leap seconds are split into mean and variance: Many years from now when the Earth is notably slower, there's a guaranteed leap second every odd month, and sometimes there's an extra leap second in June.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Republican_calendar
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercalation_(timekeeping)
My ideal year is 12 months, each 5 weeks long, each week 6 days long. At the summer solstice, 3 intercalary days (bank holidays), at the winter solstice, 2 or 3 intercalary days depending on leap year.
>
> from 2017 January 1, 0h UTC, until further notice : UTC-TAI = -37s
This means the atomic clock is behind the solar clock by 37 seconds? I also don’t understand the reference to 2017.
If anything, it's the other way around.
A UTC day is defined as exactly 86400 SI seconds. But an actual mean solar day is a few milliseconds longer (although the difference is not constant due to irregularities in the Earth's rotation--but the average difference is expected to slowly increase over time). SI seconds are counted by atomic clocks, so UTC advances its day by one every 86400 atomic clock seconds.
But a solar clock that advances its day by one every time the mean sun reaches noon (it has to be the mean sun because the rate at which the actual sun moves across the sky varies over the course of a year, we need to look at the average) will advance its day a few milliseconds later than UTC does. Or, to put it another way, each time period that the solar clock says is exactly 86400 seconds, is a few milliseconds longer according to the atomic clock.
As this happens day after day, the difference accumulates, and when it gets close to being a full second, a leap second gets inserted into UTC, so that one of its days is 86401 seconds long instead of 86400. The reason for this is that UTC is not just counting atomic clock time; it also has to stay in sync with where the sun is in the sky since so many human activities are tied to that. And we humans have defined "in sync with the sun" to be "within a second of the average sun". In other words, we want UTC noon to be within a second of mean solar noon on the prime meridian.
So the 37 seconds is how far mean solar noon would be behind UTC noon, if we didn't use leap seconds--at UTC noon, the mean sun would be 37 seconds short of actually crossing the prime meridian in the sky.
Why?
If I travel 1 mile east or west of the prime meridian, my solar noon now comes 2-3 seconds earlier/later. It's nearly impossible to have your local time match your local solar noon. For most of the population, solar noon is, on average, 30 minutes off of 12:00 noon.
Plus, solar noon varies from day to day by 10-20 seconds. Check the charts out. https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/usa/new-york
Um, because it's the prime meridian and that's how UTC is defined?
> It's nearly impossible to have your local time match your local solar noon.
Which is why I specified on the prime meridian, which is the particular local meridian that UTC is defined as corresponding to.
> solar noon varies from day to day by 10-20 seconds.
Which is why I was careful to specify mean solar noon.
I'm not quite sure what your issue is. Yes, we have time zones tied to specific meridians, and the actual sun's speed in the sky varies (which I mentioned in my post, so I'm not sure why you seem to think I'm unaware of it) so in most places local time by the clock doesn't match local time by the sun. Yes, a leap second adjustment to UTC is quite a bit smaller, taken in isolation, than the annual variation in actual solar time vs. mean solar time.
But over time, if we didn't have leap seconds, the difference would accumulate. The accumulated difference now between UTC and TAI is 37 seconds--which is almost twice the maximum variation in actual solar noon from mean solar noon that you refer to. We humans have collectively decided that we don't want that, and that it's better to do the adjustments a little at a time rather than in bigger lumps.
No, the 10-15 seconds I mentioned is the daily variation in solar noon.
From the link I posted, in NYC, solar noon on 2026-01-01 is at 11:59am. On 2026-01-31, solar noon is at 12:09pm. In one month, it has drifted 10 minutes. That's much greater than the 37 leap seconds we have added in 60 years.
"We humans have collectively decided that we don't want that, and that it's better to do the adjustments a little at a time rather than in bigger lumps."
Yet we just reversed that decision. No more leap seconds after 2035. After trying it, we decided it was terrible.
Yes, but averaged over an entire year, it still comes out to zero. The difference between mean solar and atomic time does not. It accumulates over the years.
> we just reversed that decision
We paused it for 100 years after 2035. That doesn't change the physical fact that the Earth's rotation will continue to slow over the long term. We might eventually decide to just not care about that when it comes to civil timekeeping, but that's not what the decision you're referring to did. It just said we can afford to let the difference between UTC and TAI accumulate from 2035 to 2135 (by which time it is predicted to be about a minute) while we figure out what we want to do over the longer term.
That's an explanation of how it is, not why we should care to preserve it.
The definitions of hours minutes and seconds have changed before, and in recent history.
> Which is why I was careful to specify mean solar noon.
And "mean solar noon" is meaningless to people's lives. Even in the areas where time zones do follow meridians and not country borders that are many minutes off.
In terms of what physical process we use to set the standard, yes. But those very changes were made to try to preserve the same time periods that were important to humans. In other words, to not change what hours, minutes, and seconds mean intuitively to us humans as we go about our daily lives.
Would you also say that getting rid of leap seconds and allowing UTC to gradually drift away from the sun is making the technical side easier at the expense of relatability?
And that's exactly why the SI second has the length that it has--to be as close as possible in terms of how atomic clocks work to 1/86400 of an Earth mean solar day at a chosen epoch. (Note that the actual definition before the atomic clock one was adopted was in terms of the Earth's tropical year at that epoch--but the fraction of the tropic year that was chosen was to line up the second with 1/86400 of an epoch day.) If we didn't care about "relatability", nobody would have gone to all the trouble of trying to determine how many cesium clock oscillations there were in 1/86400 of an epoch day.
Ok so far.
> and you can divide that by 60 twice
I'm not so sure. The concept of 24 hours in a day originates in civil timekeeping, yes, but not minutes and seconds. Those originally came from astronomy, and corresponded to angles, not times, and those angles are constants; they don't change as the Earth's rotation slows down or as its speed in orbit around the Sun changes over the course of a year. I don't think people's intuitive concept of minutes and seconds is that they vary according to the time of year or the tidal effects on the Earth.
> I don't think people's intuitive concept of minutes and seconds is that they vary according to the time of year or the tidal effects on the Earth.
But if you asked people to choose between "seconds vary by an imperceptible amount, less than your clocks naturally drift" and "an hour doesn't have 3600 seconds" I bet most will pick the former.
And it doesn't have to drift day by day, you can average it over a multi-year period.
It's going to be weird once the earth slows down enough that we'd need a leap second every day or two. Once you can't ignore the drift anymore, the system we chose is significantly unintuitive.
> If we didn't care about "relatability", nobody would have gone to all the trouble of trying to determine how many cesium clock oscillations there were in 1/86400 of an epoch day.
I'm not saying we didn't care about it, I'm saying we didn't put it as top priority. We went with a nice clean fixed-length second that will drift away from the Earth over time. And it wasn't/isn't that hard to determine the number of oscillations since "matching" the Earth's unstable speed has a huge margin you can land within.
> Would you also say that getting rid of leap seconds and allowing UTC to gradually drift away from the sun is making the technical side easier at the expense of relatability?
Yes.
I'm in favor of both, to be honest. But it's a tradeoff, and it's a tradeoff that weakens the layman's definition of a second.
Fun fact: leap seconds will stop being a thing soonish. I think they phase out in 2035, with a delay because Russia needed time to update glassnoss satellites.
(Note: on mobile, this is from memory, details need checking ;))
A frightening fact, the 2011 magnitude 9.0 Tohoku Earthquake shifted the position of the Earth's figure axis about 17 centimeters, making days about 1.8 microseconds shorter.
Everybody agreed that "Leap seconds" are a sufficiently bad idea that they should be replaced by 2035. Nobody has agreed how to fix it, and "Just turn them off" isn't technically legal. However, "What if there were Leap hours instead?" is technically legal and of course those hours would happen in the very distant future (likely after our civilisation is gone) so it's functionally identical to "Just turn them off" but without legal problems.
Now, I'm English, and England loves this sort of hack. You may have heard that controversial UK politician Nigel Farage "resigned" as a Westminster MP recently and that's not technically true because you can't resign, historically people hated that job and so you can't resign and we never changed that, but what you can do, and everybody does, is get assigned an "Office of profit" in which legally the King is paying you, an MP can't work for the King so you can't be an MP any more. The "Offices of profit" in question aren't real jobs† and don't pay real money, like this "Leap Hour" they'd be a legal fiction. So everybody says you "resigned" but in fact you legally can't do that...
† I mean, historically they were real jobs that made sense which is why the King paid somebody to do them, but England is very, very old so they haven't made sense for centuries and serve only as a legal fiction today.
There's a long tradition in the UK of having electoral candidates who don't expect to win but run because it's free publicity in a high profile race. "Count Binface" is a comedian who dresses up as a space alien whose outfit resembles well, having a Bin for a face. The serious political parties told Nigel to fuck off, if he wants to step down and then immediately contest the same seat they wouldn't run against him in this farce, but Binface isn't a serious politician so he is running in that by-election.
Nigel wanted to be able to do this whole thing about how the establishment is rotten and he (Wealthy public schoolboy who keeps lying to people and doesn't bother going to Parliament even though he was elected to do so) is a true man of the people and can put things right. It got him this far in life. But with the other candidate on your ballot being a space alien it's obvious which of these options is really "the establishment" and it's not the guy whose policies include "Building at least one house†" and who says he comes from a different planet...
† British political parties often insist they will build lots of housing because that's popular with voters. But, in practice they don't tend to really deliver because the various groups lobby not to actually build. So "at least one house" is a joke about this phenomenon, while conveniently also being technically possible, Binface could just build a house, that's a thing you can do.
Binface has always involved himself in well-publicised constituency races, the idea that this was some pre-planned operation by "the establishment" (as you are implying) stretches credulity. None of the other parties have endorsed Binface, they all seem to have expected Farage to win anyway.
The liberal elite of plumbers and comedians are
Then everything would theoretically be correct. The logical next thing to do would be to move all the time zones as well. But time zones already don't coincide with the lines of longitude in practice; they tend to follow country or internal boundaries somewhat close to the lines of longitude (but sometimes multiple hours away!). After a few thousand leap seconds, maybe one or two countries would feel it was helpful to readjust a time zone boundary to better align with solar time, but in practice this would never be the overriding reason for that decision.
You say people's GPS systems would all suddenly be wrong because they depend on locations in latitude and longitude? I don't think this is a problem either: in practice longitude and latitude are given not relative to the steel bar in Greenwich, but to per-continent geodetic datum points. This already prevents continental drift from affecting your coordinates, though a big earthquake can still mess things up.
For those unaware, the major parties have declined to participate in the by-election triggered by Farage's resignation seeing the whole thing as a farce. As a result Farage will likely face only Count Binface, a space warrior from Sigma Six. He'd get my vote purely on the basis that he's promised to bring back Ceefax, and build at least one affordable house.
It's more like an atheist refusing to swear an oath before God in a courtroom: even if you agree that the law says you must do so, you might still not want to give God that recognition. But worse, because God might also be the defendant and the judge in this case, and you have to swear not only that He might witness your testimony but also that you pledge allegiance to Him, so swearing that oath really impairs your ability to participate in a fair trial.
So for them rather than for atheists England made it possible to Affirm that you're not lying. This will work in Parliament, and it's pretty routine these days that a new member is like nope, no swearing for me, I can promise I'm not lying but I never swear or I won't swear to God.
However, Parliament does require allegiance to the King because this is a constitutional monarchy, if they wanted to be a Republic they'd get rid of the King as a group, that's not up to you as an individual member. Not much notice is taken of how much you seem to mean it about allegiance to the King, because after all plenty of members are known to hold Republican sentiments, but you are required to say the words unlike the stuff about swearing which is optional.
On the other hand, Binface has not, as I understand it, ever said he would not serve if elected. He's made it clear that he's not from Clacton (or Makerfield) -- because he's a space alien -- but I believe he said if he won he would move there so that's fair enough if the constituents want him. They previously elected Nigel, and he's rarely in either parliament or Clacton so Binface can't be worse than that.
- https://theshovel.com.au/2026/07/09/joke-candidate-to-face-c...
Actually, I'd take issue with describing Sinn Féin as a protest vote at all. They've historically been the only choice that even claim to represent constituents in many areas. And they do seem to do much of the work of an MP (writing letters on behalf of constituents, lobbying government agencies...) they just don't vote or debate.
The key aspect is that they consider the English government to be a foreign government and so they avoid involving it in the work that they do in Ireland for their Irish constituency. Statements about the illegitimacy of their government historically come from conservative English sources. But the fact is those SF debates in their "protest government" formed the foundation of the modern Irish state. They are a protest vote in the same way that the US Constitutional Convention was.
By the same token, they consider legislating on affairs that pertain to the English, Welsh, and Scots to be none of their business. To take up seats in a foreign parliament would be to meddle in the affairs of a foreign, sovereign nation. And that would be hypocrisy!
So for example Órfhlaith Begley was elected MP for West Tyrone. Her voters will have known she's not going to Westminster, and she didn't - but she's not in some parallel institution instead, AFAIK there isn't one. Nicola Brogan represents West Tyrone as an MLA in Stormont, because Sinn Féin does recognise the Assembly and you can't say well but there's a body in Dublin. Dublin doesn't control West Tyrone so what would she even do there?
She just doesn't go into the room which is called the House of Commons and try to speak or vote there, because the armed guards at the door won't let in anyone who doesn't swear allegiance to the King. If swearing allegiance to the King was a requirement to use the email system, then she wouldn't do that either.
I think it's parliament.uk rather than parliament.co.uk by the way.
So the core issue, from the Republican perspective, is that the people of West Tyrone are denied representation at the national level in Ireland by a foreign government. Once that representation is achieved the SF representatives will participate in it. (again, not trying to address the merits; just clarify the logic)
I did not expect this to be a real person. Is he with the Standing At The Back Dressed Stupidly And Looking Stupid party?
That would be the Monster Raving Loony party who will apparently also be standing in this by-election. Count Binface has ruled out a pact with them.
I thought this was an opportunity for them to be tactical, but no.
(this is a joke)
There were arguments that the government should refuse Farage's appointment because he's doing it to stop the clock on investigation into his various financial dealings. While against constitutional law to decline such, it was discussed in similar situations in the past - fairly recently in fact for the same reason -- Henry Cadogan in 1842
On the subject of headwear in parliament, I quote the member for Hereford who yesterday in parliament said:
> How very different from the forthcoming by-election in Clacton, which appears to be a choice between a novelty comedy act with no real policies, and Count Binface. It is a long time since we had a count in the House of Commons, and when the time comes—as it surely will—we will have to leave to you, Mr Speaker, the delicate question of whether and how to suspend the rules on headgear in the Chamber for the new Member.
Which implies that the laws around headgear are at the behest of the Speaker.
There is precedent in electoral history for election of people dressed as a figure -- H'Angus the Monkey (a football mascott, not an actual monkey) was elected Mayor. However on the ballot paper his entry was
STUART DRUMMOND Independent
Where as Binface's is
Count BINFACE Count Binface Party
Given Farage received a mere 45% in 2024, and a unity candidate beat an incumbant mp who previosuly had 55% and was mired in a similar scandal back in 1997, it's not impossible.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48848034
It's like you buy a cat to help with your rodent problem, figuring the cat will eat mice and isn't much trouble to look after, but after purchasing a cat you find that your problem was actually rats, your cat is terrified of these large dangerous creatures and sometimes gets bitten by them necessitating expensive vet bills and now you need to pay a lot of attention to the poor animal and also now need to buy cat food.
I mean we deal with daylight saving time all the time and I know it's not the same because the leap second affects UTC, not just local time zone, it's just that you are either dealing with monotonically increasing time like epoch, or you are dealing with "human" time and I found no distinction in the latter.
Is it "just" that leap seconds or delay seconds caused problems in epoch to utc conversion? Note the just in quotes, but did I just answer my own question? :)
Those things that really do rely on actual "elapsed time" rather than the difference between two recorded "book times".
Does this happen? Yes, a few times in my career in geophysical exploration - it's why multiple bits of gear are synced to a reference "real clock" which gets logged against the raw GPS epoch time (real time since Sunday last week(?)) and processed "UTC" time (some variation of it).
There's a lot of fiddly pedantic stuff that goes with scientific data recording, timekeeping is but one domain of possible issues.
And I wish we didn't every year!
We also don't deal with DST very well either. You won't believe the amount of programs written that treat local time as monotonic. It causes all kinds of problems and most people roll their eyes when someone who knows pipes up about local time and time zones etc.
If the world weren't entirely reliant on software to the extent it is today (like when leap seconds were introduced in the 70s), it wouldn't matter as much.
The treaty says everybody agrees that this new standard will try to track "solar time" which felt intuitively reasonable. They want something equivalent to the old GMT which was really based on solar time, except more modern. At first the idea was, well, we just work out how fast this damp rock spins more precisely and we can use that to ensure everything works forever.
More precise measurements of the damp rock showed that, annoyingly, Mother Nature did not provide the spinning rock as a precise clock, it spins slower and faster according to a huge number of variables and so the best we can do is measure the spinning against an actual clock. So, "Leap seconds" were born to meet that legal requirement to have UTC match the solar time.
The "leap hour" would likewise fulfil this requirement, just in a deliberately useless way because we actually do not care about precisely tracking solar time. If we did, almost every human in the world would be perpetually annoyed because of course our present system of "time zones" means on average we're at least 30 minutes wrong!
No. Not everybody. I prefer accurate time, and all the complaints I've heard hold little water.
My servers need to timesync forwards and back all the time, eg timedrift. They need to jump to new times, or slowly drift, depending.
VMs can be hypervisor starved, or need to move to a new host.
Servers also need to handle missing time. Any daemon or program which cannot handle this is buggy, broken, and needs to deal.
Leap seconds are just part of all of this, and present no new issues compared to normal time change. I question the capabilities of any engineer who singles out time second as difficult to deal with, time is constantly changing on servers. Constantly.
So back to the start, no... everybody doesn't agree. Google isn't "everybody".
It's infrequent enough that most systems won't bother implementing it, but a big enough time difference that it absolutely must be handled correctly at the right instant.
You'd be setting yourself up for a millennium bug-sized panic every century. And the instant that the generation that experiences one retires, their successors will start saying "there's not going to be a leap minute for the next couple of decades, and there's no chance our code will still be running then...", and the cycle will start afresh!
The 999 year lease to essentially make land practically freehold is one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/999-year_lease
It's caused significant controversy in my (former colony) country where all other long-term leases are 99 years. The landowners are insisting it must have been a typo and they want their land back.
GLONASS maybe? or really glasnost era satellites?
Why is this? As leap seconds don’t occur on a regular frequency, I assume they are not hardcoded on the software or hardware on board, but the control centre uploads them on the satellites enough in advance once they have been scheduled. So why can’t the control centre just stop sending those updates?
This type of assumption that was made early in a massive software and hardware project that's now been ossified for ~50 years is going to be hard to change.
What are the satellites doing with the models? They're not deciding leap seconds on their own, I hope. So I don't see why the leap second decision would be locked to low accuracy.
Also I would expect doubling the precision to give you a 3-4x slowdown on the math or adding orders to have less effect, and the amount of available computation spent on those models to be like a tenth of a percent at most, so the extra cycles wouldn't be an issue. What am I missing here?
To me it seems like unpredictability is the only real issue.
[1]: https://www.bipm.org/en/cgpm-2022/resolution-4
Arguably, the only real-world impact this drift has on normal people is GPS, but GPS already transmits an offset from its own clock so that receivers can correct for that. The GPS clock is different both from UTC and TIA.
I don't think we know this do we? we haven't been measuring accurately enough for long enough to be confident that it does in fact cancel out. In fact for the period of time where we've been applying leap seconds they were happening with significant frequency and always in the same direction. It's only been very recently that there's been the realistic suggestion it might drift in the other direction.
If anything people have been suggesting that if we do get rid of leap seconds that we can just wait until the offset is enormous instead (say an hour) because it would take a very long time to happen. But even still, that does actually affect everyday people (because people would surely notice when solar noon is an hour later/earlier). Although pragmatically the obvious solution there is to change timezone instead.
Nothing I do requires this level of precision, but certainly there are things that do.
New leap second will get to your system through NTP. Sadly NTP only distributes indicator flag that leap second is going to be introduced, but not the offset itself. But the distributed time itself is already affected by leap second, so NTP client doesn't really need to know.
(In contrast the other time sync mechanisms - GPS and PTP - use time scale unaffected by leap seconds and distribute it as an additional information with UTC offset. And it's left on client to modify received time on its end. Kernel has a parameters in clock_adjtime() for leap seconds.)
So if you have a passive system that has NTP client then it's time will change for new leap second on runtime. Linux treats UTC time as the dominant one, so that's the one saved to RTC device and will survive reboot.
There is CLOCK_TAI that sounds like it should return TAI time, but it is such a second class citizen to the point that nothing on regular Linux desktop and server distros even set the offset and it returns the same time as CLOCK_REALTIME.
There is a file in /etc with list of leap seconds that is part of some package, so you need to update the system to update this file. I don't believe traditional NTP software updates this package dynamically. But not many software uses it. If some init service script parsed and set the kernel UTC offset then your system's CLOCK_TAI would be one second late from rest of the world until update. But it doesn't affect UTC time on Linux in any way I know.
That the notice comes every 6 months is just to meet the letter of the original international treaty.
The reason we've stopped having leap seconds is because the drift between TAI and UT1 slowed down and has actually been very slowly drifting in the other direction.
Most datetime APIs are fundamentally designed and intended for supporting calendar and wall clock operations for business functions. If you need SI seconds for scientific purposes, you really need to use alternative APIs and facilities that provide and guarantee the semantics required all the way down to the hardware level. Likewise, if you want timers, etc, for software facilities like thread sleeping, you use dedicated interfaces like monotonic clocks. If leap seconds are phased out, this won't really change the situation. It was wrong for software to rely on Unix timestamps for, e.g., mutex algorithms before and it'll be wrong if and when leap second clock adjustments are gone.