ElevenLabs was a commercial version of 15.ai. It's crazy, because 15.ai could have had the venture-scale outcomes if he'd fundraised and turned it into a SaaS product. He was in the right place, right time, with tremendous attention, but missed the opportunity.
The other "labs" followed the trend. The {number}labs / {number}.ai domains all quickly got squatted.
I was in the same space and watched it happening. I launched FakeYou about the same time as 15.ai, but 15 had the backing of 4chan and a better model. I still made it to 7M MAU and a million in revenue despite that.
Just last year, Fish Audio picked up where 15.ai / FakeYou / UberDuck / Weights.gg left off and made it to $20M ARR, which is a lesson about abandoning under-served markets when you still have tremendous gravity.
This world of cheap (vc) money, huge private equity sells and high revenue early in the products development phase is so distant to me(geographically and even more so, mentally), I need some help deciding what to do with my project and I'd really appreciate if you could DM me
Rebranding a domain with traction is a mistake, in retrospect. I think Magnific is learning this lesson now after undergoing a change from the popular FreePik.
I'm a filmmaker and I wanted to get into video models, and FakeYou felt more like a pivot to UGC video (vo.codes was too audio centric) that I could ultimately swing me into cinematic video. I was too slow and that was not a good choice.
But Higgsfield and Bytedance showed you can be late and still win a lionshare of the market.
My video product launched in February and is at $5M ARR / 67% MoM growth.
We're in use by a few film studios and some pretty popular AI artists. There are a couple of theatrical releases coming out that use us, but I can't talk about it. (Under NDA for the individual projects.)
It's at $5M ARR and growing 65% month-on-month by word of mouth.
ArtCraftX (launching soon) is a new UX that lets you bring your own compute from every single platform and vibe code your own workflow UX. You can clone the repo and easily add/remove things you want. It's okay that people can bring competitor compute - we'll be generous and open.
Think of it as "ComfyUI, but comfortable" and geared to high-volume creators rather than hobbyists. It's written in Rust.
Critically, people should be able to not only own their apps, but be able to deeply customize them.
I've also built an open source FAL/OpenRouter which I eventually want to build RunPod/Featherless (fine tunes) features into. It's called "Foundation", and it's in private beta but launches GA soon. I think it could have good positioning vs. Stripe / OpenRouter since it's open source and is meant to be extensible. Fully BYOK, too.
I'm looking to hire someone to help me build a social layer for creators that ties all of this together. YesAnd got funding to pursue this, but I think they're taking the wrong approach. I think it should be open and hackable.
A lot of platforms either target B2B enterprise (Runway, Krea) or UGC / "everyone can be a creator" (Higgsfield, OpenArt), but I think creators look more like the Github set. Intentional, and in need of tools they own.
>It's crazy, because 15.ai could have had the venture-scale outcomes if he'd fundraised and turned it into a SaaS product
Or equivalently could have gone down as a "deepseek" moment in TTS if the model was open-sourced (I don't think even a paper was published). It's a bit strange, he never made any profit but also never ended up publishing anything even after it was shut down.
For context, 15 was some brony tf2 player who cracked deep voice synthesis in order to make My Little Pony characters say funny things. He then offered this for free on his site. It was never a clever branding thing, it was just his username.
It's funny seeing HN types being genuinely confused as to why someone would just make interesting things for the sake of making them, and then offer them freely for the good of others. He used to be on HN, there's good insights in his posts: https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=15ai
I have friends that still play with him, he's still active on the same servers with a different username. He's currently working on an AI-free artist marketplace:
Thanks for sharing. It is a classic. HN has only seemingly changed in that there seems to be more of those ‘types’ than ever. The TF2 community has always been a creative bastion too.
Why would people use Fish instead of e.g. ElevenLabs? (I was a heavy TTS user in previous job, but we generally went with one of the "major" providers (11labs, PlayHT when they were still around), not any of the "new players".)
Hitchhiker: You heard of this thing, the 8-Minute Abs?
Ted: Yeah, sure, 8-Minute Abs. Yeah, the exercise video.
Hitchhiker: Yeah, this is going to blow that right out of the water. Listen to this: 7... Minute... Abs.
Ted: Right. Yes. OK, all right. I see where you're going.
Hitchhiker: Think about it. You walk into a video store, you see 8-Minute Abs sittin' there, there's 7-Minute Abs right beside it. Which one are you gonna pick, man?
Ted: I would go for the 7.
Hitchhiker: Bingo, man, bingo. 7-Minute Abs. And we guarantee just as good a workout as the 8-minute folk.
Ted: You guarantee it? That's - how do you do that?
Hitchhiker: If you're not happy with the first 7 minutes, we're gonna send you the extra minute free. You see? That's it. That's our motto. That's where we're comin' from. That's from "A" to "B".
Ted: That's right. That's - that's good. That's good. Unless, of course, somebody comes up with 6-Minute Abs. Then you're in trouble, huh?
[Hitchhiker convulses]
Hitchhiker: No! No, no, not 6! I said 7. Nobody's comin' up with 6. Who works out in 6 minutes? You won't even get your heart goin, not even a mouse on a wheel.
Ted: That - good point.
Hitchhiker: 7's the key number here. Think about it. 7-Elevens. 7 dwarves. 7, man, that's the number. 7 chipmunks twirlin' on a branch, eatin' lots of sunflowers on my uncle's ranch. You know that old children's tale from the sea. It's like you're dreamin' about Gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly Brie time, baby. Step into my office.
I was trying to remember the actor/comedian who delivered this pitch. It was Harland Williams. I most remember him as the Pennsylvania state trooper from Dumb & Dumber.
Fwiw, ElevenLabs doesn't make any sense as a firm, considering its TTS offerings are extremely overpriced by an absurdly large factor. A large user would be far better off using local models.
The moat is marketing and good looking UI. They have been spamming Tik Tok et al. relentlessly and every lazy opportunist algorithm exploiter out there knows who they are, what they do, and that they can easily generate enough slop per cost to make their money back. So yeah, not a moat, but you're kinda missing the point. Just like Lovable is wildly over-priced, under powered, and has crazy levels of lock in built in (you can't even access your own supabase account that it uses for backend). It's not for you / us. Its for the masses who don't know (or want to know) any better.
11labs does _way_ more than basic TTS. The options, customizability, quality of voice cloning (for editing your own voices), etc is far more than what you see on the surface.
If you wanna hook up a voice agent to Twilio for support for example, 11labs is probably one of the least painful ways to integrate while still maintaining control over your agent and behaviors.
For many customers that can be worth it, maintaining your own glue code is OK for some teams, others would prefer to write and _maintain_ less code over time, and hand it to procurement to negotiate on volume prices.
A long time ago I used "23 Labs" as a funny name relative to my username. Fast forward many years and I considered actually using it. Apparently "[Number] Labs" is a very popular idea now...
Wow, haha I just created an LLC that is a "<number> Labs" company. I don't plan on raising VC or anything public with it, it's just a name to release apps on the app store under.
I was trying to come up with a name and it was exhausting, everything was taken, I was trying "clever names", eventually after strategizing with ChatGPT it gave me the suggestion along the lines of:
"Many people just use their initials, birthdate, or area code, plus the word 'software', 'tech', or 'labs'"
I got lucky when registering an LLC last year for some contract work because despite having a relatively common first and last name, no one had named an nLLC that in my (very large) city. At some point during the process, I had to pick an officer title for myself for some paperwork, but there didn't seem to be any guidelines or restrictions on them, so I just put down my name for that too; I figured that being Firstname Lastname of Firstname Lastname LLC is probably even more clear than "CEO" since it makes it even more obvious that I'm the only one in it.
149 comments
[ 0.25 ms ] story [ 21.1 ms ] threadElevenLabs was a commercial version of 15.ai. It's crazy, because 15.ai could have had the venture-scale outcomes if he'd fundraised and turned it into a SaaS product. He was in the right place, right time, with tremendous attention, but missed the opportunity.
The other "labs" followed the trend. The {number}labs / {number}.ai domains all quickly got squatted.
I was in the same space and watched it happening. I launched FakeYou about the same time as 15.ai, but 15 had the backing of 4chan and a better model. I still made it to 7M MAU and a million in revenue despite that.
Just last year, Fish Audio picked up where 15.ai / FakeYou / UberDuck / Weights.gg left off and made it to $20M ARR, which is a lesson about abandoning under-served markets when you still have tremendous gravity.
I launched as vo.codes (and two prior names) before 2020 and later rebranded to FakeYou.
https://thenextweb.com/news/celebrity-voices-deepfake-ai-app
Rebranding a domain with traction is a mistake, in retrospect. I think Magnific is learning this lesson now after undergoing a change from the popular FreePik.
I'm a filmmaker and I wanted to get into video models, and FakeYou felt more like a pivot to UGC video (vo.codes was too audio centric) that I could ultimately swing me into cinematic video. I was too slow and that was not a good choice.
But Higgsfield and Bytedance showed you can be late and still win a lionshare of the market.
My video product launched in February and is at $5M ARR / 67% MoM growth.
I'm working on https://getartcraft.com which is open source:
https://github.com/storytold/artcraft
We're in use by a few film studios and some pretty popular AI artists. There are a couple of theatrical releases coming out that use us, but I can't talk about it. (Under NDA for the individual projects.)
It's at $5M ARR and growing 65% month-on-month by word of mouth.
ArtCraftX (launching soon) is a new UX that lets you bring your own compute from every single platform and vibe code your own workflow UX. You can clone the repo and easily add/remove things you want. It's okay that people can bring competitor compute - we'll be generous and open.
https://artcraftx.ai/
Think of it as "ComfyUI, but comfortable" and geared to high-volume creators rather than hobbyists. It's written in Rust.
Critically, people should be able to not only own their apps, but be able to deeply customize them.
I've also built an open source FAL/OpenRouter which I eventually want to build RunPod/Featherless (fine tunes) features into. It's called "Foundation", and it's in private beta but launches GA soon. I think it could have good positioning vs. Stripe / OpenRouter since it's open source and is meant to be extensible. Fully BYOK, too.
I'm looking to hire someone to help me build a social layer for creators that ties all of this together. YesAnd got funding to pursue this, but I think they're taking the wrong approach. I think it should be open and hackable.
A lot of platforms either target B2B enterprise (Runway, Krea) or UGC / "everyone can be a creator" (Higgsfield, OpenArt), but I think creators look more like the Github set. Intentional, and in need of tools they own.
Or equivalently could have gone down as a "deepseek" moment in TTS if the model was open-sourced (I don't think even a paper was published). It's a bit strange, he never made any profit but also never ended up publishing anything even after it was shut down.
It's funny seeing HN types being genuinely confused as to why someone would just make interesting things for the sake of making them, and then offer them freely for the good of others. He used to be on HN, there's good insights in his posts: https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=15ai
https://artistalley.org/
[0] https://youtu.be/IijpmHlGzXA?si=bELHeYmcwk6L6Jpi
Ted: Yeah, sure, 8-Minute Abs. Yeah, the exercise video.
Hitchhiker: Yeah, this is going to blow that right out of the water. Listen to this: 7... Minute... Abs.
Ted: Right. Yes. OK, all right. I see where you're going.
Hitchhiker: Think about it. You walk into a video store, you see 8-Minute Abs sittin' there, there's 7-Minute Abs right beside it. Which one are you gonna pick, man?
Ted: I would go for the 7.
Hitchhiker: Bingo, man, bingo. 7-Minute Abs. And we guarantee just as good a workout as the 8-minute folk.
Ted: You guarantee it? That's - how do you do that?
Hitchhiker: If you're not happy with the first 7 minutes, we're gonna send you the extra minute free. You see? That's it. That's our motto. That's where we're comin' from. That's from "A" to "B".
Ted: That's right. That's - that's good. That's good. Unless, of course, somebody comes up with 6-Minute Abs. Then you're in trouble, huh?
[Hitchhiker convulses]
Hitchhiker: No! No, no, not 6! I said 7. Nobody's comin' up with 6. Who works out in 6 minutes? You won't even get your heart goin, not even a mouse on a wheel.
Ted: That - good point.
Hitchhiker: 7's the key number here. Think about it. 7-Elevens. 7 dwarves. 7, man, that's the number. 7 chipmunks twirlin' on a branch, eatin' lots of sunflowers on my uncle's ranch. You know that old children's tale from the sea. It's like you're dreamin' about Gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly Brie time, baby. Step into my office.
Ted: Why?
Hitchhiker: 'Cause you're fuckin' fired!
from There's Something About Mary
> Twelve Labs and ElevenLabs are co-hosting the 23Labs Hackathon
Check out their docs for a glimpse: https://elevenlabs.io/docs/api-reference/introduction
If you wanna hook up a voice agent to Twilio for support for example, 11labs is probably one of the least painful ways to integrate while still maintaining control over your agent and behaviors.
For many customers that can be worth it, maintaining your own glue code is OK for some teams, others would prefer to write and _maintain_ less code over time, and hand it to procurement to negotiate on volume prices.
Oh well
I was trying to come up with a name and it was exhausting, everything was taken, I was trying "clever names", eventually after strategizing with ChatGPT it gave me the suggestion along the lines of:
"Many people just use their initials, birthdate, or area code, plus the word 'software', 'tech', or 'labs'"
And I went ahead with that and called it a day!