XCancel also down, at least for time being

3 points by orange999 ↗ HN
Message on xcancel website:

"On Monday 24th August at 8PM EST, we received at letter from X Corp. asking to cease and desist the service XCancel. The service XCancel is stopped until further notice. We are seeking legal advice and won't share more details for now. Thank you for the trust you have put in these two years of XCancel."

https://xcancel.com/

233 comments

[ 0.28 ms ] story [ 16.4 ms ] thread
"You know, with [Musk], the more I learn about that guy, the more I don't care for him."
[flagged]
That is the point. It's a way to get the value of a service you don't like, while signaling to everyone that you're too virtuous to use the service you're getting value out of.
I prefer not to share links that require the people receiving the link to create an account to read the content or post to such websites for that matter. That's basic netiquette.
Same, and I'm learning that we're definitely a minority.
Others have explained about not being able to see all content, profiles and such.

I’ll add another reason why I redirect to it: XCancel is/was a lot faster than X and had IMO a much cleaner UI, especially when reading larger conversations or groups of tweets. I don’t browse X much, but I already have an extension installed to redirect certain sites, so adding a redirect was an easy win. I’ll miss it.

Do you make the same complaint when folks post links to archive.is? If not, why is this different?
If you read the comments on the Github issue for Nitter shutting down you'll see that's precisely what it is
Odd. Try to read stuff on twitter without an account/logged out.

It's a kind of enshittification pattern where a site based on user content closes off more and more access over time.

Xcancel and Nitter are/were easier to work with, afaict.

It's mostly useful if you want to link someone to a post on twitter to people who don't have an twitter account.

I use it to make RSS feeds for accounts where I don't want to miss a single post
Yeah, it’s connected to Nitter.

I had a number of bookmarked X accounts I would check in on via xcancel. I’ll keep them for now but I assume they’re done for.

I have zero desire to ever crate an X account. Keep closing doors, Elon, and watch usage drop even more than it already has.

I don't understand being so emotionally attached to a personality to virtue signal about everything they're connected to. I'm no fan of the guy itself for many reasons, but it's just a service like any other, you either use it or you don't.
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Hardly any one is virtue signaling, but people vice signal all the time.
It seems like you’re reading an emotional connection that the commenter didn’t actually state or even allude to. They just use the service from a utilitarian standpoint: they have some people they follow that they have bookmarked on xcancel so that they don’t need to make an account.

I find it somewhat sensationalist to interpret a moral choice to use or not use a product with a negative connotation phrase like “virtue signaling.” It strongly implies that the individual is wrong for making a purchase choice for moral reasons.

But that’s neither here nor there because the parent commenter never actually mentioned any moral objection to using the product. They just don’t like the fact that X is a closed platform that doesn’t allow content viewing without being logged in.

The us system of government and many of its agencies are under attack by an administration that elon helped secure a win for. Excuse me for getting a little emotional towards a Nazi who supports the concentration camps we have on US soil.

I'll make every effort to avoid his products and bad mouth him every single time his name comes up.

he is hated.

> I'm no fan of the guy itself for many reasons, but it's just a service like any other, you either use it or you don't.

It's not just a service, using it actively helps increase and spread his influence in the same way using Facebook/Insta/Threads helps increase and spread Zuck's influence, or using Truth Social helps spread Trump's influence.

You can't separate the man from Twitter, any more than you can separate him from Tesla or SpaceX.

Have you considered that people actually have ethical beliefs and you're the one that is weird?
Have you considered that other's ethical beliefs may not match yours?
“actually have ethical beliefs” here → not “virtue signalling”
Like most media, it's non-fungible. Many people post there and nowhere else. You may as well say "Oh the book you liked got pulled? Just pick a different book to read."
Has nothing specific to do with Elon Musk, it's the entire ecosystem.

Why do you assume not wanting to create an account on every platform is "emotionally attached" and a "virtue signal"? Are you familiar with the business model of these sites?

I don't use any of these services. Any service that requires an account to view content, I don't use. So Instagram, Facebook, and now X (via xcancel).

The LibRedirect extension lets you use any alt-frontend for [Twitter|YouTube|Reddit|Fandom|you name it] and automatically redirects you when you click a link. That way you can just save the original url and let your browser redirect for you. Would highly recommend

https://libredirect.manerakai.com/

It has some default options built in like Nitter for Twitter, Invidious for YouTube, Redlib for Reddit, etc

EST, huh? Where is this poster located that they are in an Eastern Standard Time zone?
Especially rich coming from X Corp, with their xAI-Bot web scrapers.
I didn't get much use out of XCancel, because it usually assumed I was a bot and refused to show me the page.

It's web scrapers with anti-scraping filters, all the way down.

A real shame. Even if you put all the political arguments aside it sucks when a site requires you to log in before you can read content on it. For me that’ll mean I just don’t read content on there any more. These days I don’t think it’ll be much of a loss.
Indeed. I’d only reengaged with any Xitter content when I realized I could get it through xcancel. Without a door like this, it’s invisible to me.
The modern hipster equivalent of "I don't even own a TV."
This seems really out of touch tbh.
Reddit is the worst for this. I hate disgusting, low class UX design where they let you read about 10-15 seconds of a page before locking you out.

Though I think Pinterest takes the cake for being just the ugliest example of this.

spez is a problem. And if it's not spez, then enlighten me. But they've taken years of built up network effects and absolutely wrecked it. It's so hostile when companies do this. They just ignore their users, straight up. That should be a firable offense. The customer is NOT 'always right', but you can meet them halfway

Fail upwards. That's all they know how to do

> The customer is NOT 'always right', but you can meet them halfway

Reddit users are not customers. The advertisers and AI labs are the customers because they're the ones paying. The users are the cattle in the pen being sold to the advertisers and the monkeys at the typewriters whose output gets sold as AI training data.

I understand this, but the distinction is academic

The people using their product. The people who, if the product were shit from day 1 - as Reddit wasn't - would have never signed up for it. Who have been effectively and literally lied to

It's not day 1, so it's irrelevant what would've happened on day 1.
What is your point. The product has been ruined and I'm saying that by 'customers' I just meant users
“Users” is a misnomer that sheepishly cloaks the relationship with a little feint of dignity. You are not the customer merely because you use the thing. Where the service is free, your attention, metadata, and by extension, susceptibility to influence are the value being sold; the advertisers are the customers.

As the saying goes: “If it’s free, you’re the product.”

My point is exactly what I wrote.
Old Reddit is now completely unusable without an account. Maybe it's time for me to finally stop using it.
Do database dumps of it still exist?

Maybe it’s time to just download it and Wikipedia, then point an LLM / vectordb at it.

Yes they do, there are archives that are up to date for the month.
Old reddit on the tor onion domain still works for me.
All the time? It wasn't working for me using tor-browser, nor Brave. I was only a reader of Reddit. I'm on fediverse/Lemmy, mainly https://old.lemmy.world which feels very familiar!

I've not taken the effort to understand fediverse yet, but it feels very old-internet.

Interesting--I'm still using old.reddit.com with no problem, without an account. Maybe the change is not broadly rolled out?
Could be regional - however it's odd that it pops up on old.reddit.com but not reddit.com.
It happens to me on not old reddit as well
They’ve been rolling it out gradually. There was a thread on HN about it a couple of weeks ago, it just started affecting my IPs a few days ago.

It’s managed to do what years of self-imposed content blockers etc. on my own side have failed to do - finally broke my Reddit addiction!

I think gradual rollout is underrecognised as the utterly devious way of implementing user-hostile changes that it is. It doesn't take a lot of scrolling through the comments here to find instances of people who are unaffected by some change or another being inexplicably hostile towards posters who are, implicitly accusing them of anything from incompetence to drama-mongering and misinformation. In that way, some of those who would complain about a change are worn down early on, and by the time the change is rolled out to more people they have already resigned and moved on, preventing a critical mass of opposition from forming.
That's the magic of A/B testing. You get to send an entire "B" group into paranoia and upset about the change they didn't want/like while everyone in "A" gets to gaslight B that B isn't experiencing what they're getting and that it would never happen to A...
Yes, it's a kind of boiling the frog where instead of slowly cranking up the degree of enshittification you do it with the number of affected users instead. In both cases the goal is to avoid a critical mass of user outrage.

A/B tests in general should require informed consent just like any other study on human participants. But then most software developers don't care about ethics so this is nothing new.

I got it last week sometime. Now I can't browse reddit at work and on my tablet, where I'm not logged in.
Use a LibReddit/Redlib/Teddit/etc. instance.
To what end? We're discussing this on a post about the equivalent for another platform being (hopefully temporarily) shutdown so this will never be a reliable long term solution.
Until we finally overcome this inevitable enshittification by migrating everyone to decentralized communication platforms?
New Reddit is too. They were A/B testing it for a while, but now you can't use it without the login pop-up after a short timespan. The funny thing is, it has nothing to do with how much content you view. So if you really want to read something, you can hit F5 and scroll back down every time the pop-up is shown. Still not worth it. But honestly, Reddit content has taken such a plummeting nose dive over the last few years, this just feels like a final reminder that it's time to move on.
Cynically, I think the purpose is to inflate page view counts. You refresh 10x to read the comments, they report 10x user engagement, and high five each other over successfully meeting their KPIs.
It was time for that a long time ago lol.
The changes to old.reddit mean I've started using redlib.catsarch for simple browsing.
Reddit seems to have let this AI demand go to their heads.

I had multiple Reddit accounts, simply because I did not want my more "professional" account linked to the other accounts (some for more controversial opinions, some for more adult talk, etc.) Apparently that's a problem for them. So they banned most of my accounts. If I really was up to no good, I'd have used VPNs, etc. to hide my activities. But I just wanted to segregate my personas. e.g. I like discussing local SF and California politics, and often times take controversial positions. I don't want my activities as a respectable(?) member of the Linux Kernel group to be colored through my activities in these other groups. But now I can't do that.

Oh, and back in the day Reddit (when it wanted to pad its user numbers) didn't care for an email address or a phone number. Now, 15 years later, it suddenly wants to confirm the email address!

And don't even get me started on the moderation at Reddit. Typical example: "Hey! We deleted your comment. If you have any questions about it, email the mods." except ... they deleted the comment and now I don't even know what was wrong with it! :-D

You're lucky you only got email address. I got selfie+ID. No thank you.
Interesting, because multiple accounts for the same person is explicitly allowed by Reddit:

https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/204535759-I...

What is written and what is done in practice is always different. "Anti-fraud" and "security" are things you can drive a truck through.
Which is why, like often in these stories, there is probably more to it.
It's good to be skeptical. But in my case, there is not much more to it.
> Reddit is the worst for this. I hate the disgusting, low class UX design where they let you read about 10-15 seconds of a page before locking you out.

When this happens I use uBlock origin to remove that popup and the grey background behind it. Scrolling and loading more comments remains usable (unlike Facebook)

(as a logged-in user) I just stopped using it the day they banned 3rd party apps and I don't miss it a bit. I visit some communities still, but only on PC with old reddit. Once that is gone, I'm gone as well.
Sites that force you to login to actually use it feel very arrogant.
Nice to see everyone taking a break from their day jobs at Google of continually breaking yt-dlp so it's impossible to use, to comment how this is an injustice.

To the aggrieved I say: 403 Forbidden.

This might be the first HN thread I’ve seen where the statement “regiwalled content is bad” is somehow attracting a lot of negative reactions…
There's a bit difference between breaking a scraper and sending Cease and Desist letters.

Also, blocking scraping is very rich (and expectedly hypocritical) for an AI company, which SpaceX is now.

Google has sent a cease and desist letter to youtube-dl. It didn’t work out well.

And of course, Google is an AI company, too.

Wasn't it a DMCA takedown actually?
There are probably some legal differences (IANAL), but isn’t the idea basically the same as in C&D?
It was the RIAA, not Google

It failed because it didn’t make any technical sense. The RIAA was trying to argue that YouTube’s proof-of-work JavaScript challenges were some kind of DRM and by running JavaScript YouTube-dl was circumventing DRM

I don't get it, are you implying everyone who's not a fan of this change is a Google employee?
Pretty sure it was a satirical joke.
Most people on HN don't work at Google. And most would probably agree that both Google and Twitter are being user-hostile.
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> when a site requires you to log in before you can read content on it.

Where does this come from? You can see the last few posts of an account [1], and the contents of a single posts, but minimal to no comments [2]. Videos play after dismissing the login popup.

I have no X account, but I read content there all the time without issue.

[1] https://x.com/ID_AA_Carmack

[2] https://x.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/2091983940609245467

A few months ago you needed to log in to view any replies, which was critical for some threads.
I received an Amber Alert a few days ago, which linked to a Twitter post containing the details, and the "x" in the "plz login" modal that blocked the entire screen was non-functional. I just sat there pounding on the x, and then a little hand gif popped up and pointed at the login button.
It always confuses me because the X you need to click is in the upper right and very small.

Not the giant X in the middle.

Horrible UI choices.....

I was definitely clicking the correct x. And I resolved it by refreshing the page and trying again.
Do you have a screenshot of what you see when you click the above link? I've never had a twitter link go directly to a login screen. A twitter link within a twitter link does, though, unless you copy paste it into the address bar.

I don't understand why I'm being downvoted. Am I seeing something different than everyone else? I just tried with private browser, multiple browsers, multiple devices, and they're all the same: I click any twitter post link I can find, and I see the post, no login screen. I'm not using adblock or and javascript is turned on.

Trying to open an image in a tweet also gets the login screen and since a lot of people hide the important information in images because that's what the algorithm prefers, simply visiting the tweet URL directly is no longer a viable solution. You also sometimes get the login requirement for the initial tweet itself.
It depends on the tweet. I can browse many profiles of public figures just fine and open their tweets, but tweets from random people (especially if they include media) will bounce me back with a login wall. Remotely NSFW stuff is instant block.
It is not difficult to understand why you are being downvoted. You are insisting that your own personal observations are the absolute truth, and rejecting everyone else's.
I'm referring to a modal overlaying the post. It says "see this post in the app". Not a login prompt, as I previously reported (but who cares, modal is modal).
Unless it has changed, the posts are in random order; they aren't the latest, which makes the ones you see basically worthless.
I don't know how it works, but it is very inconsistent.

On mobile right now, I can't scroll past the second post of [1] without getting blocked by an undismissable popup.

If I click on the "read more" button of the first post, I can't scroll down at all before getting that same non-dismissable popup. It makes it hard to read the post itself, because even scrolling a tiny bit (e.g. to get what I'm reading closer to the center of my vision) triggers it.

I've also had other times where I couldn't play a video someone linked to me, but sometimes I can, don't know why.

This is a surprising change. It works even without JS, although as others have mentioned, without all the content.

6 years ago, pre-Musk, they started forcing the JS-only webapp and everyone absolutely hated it: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/technology/twitter-war...

I wonder if there's a group of developers at X, especially with Musk's cost-saving direction, who are slowly bringing back the static pages.

> a site requires you to log in before you can read content on it.

That's not true for X. You can read content without being signed in.

https://help.x.com/en/safety-and-security/public-and-protect...

Not in any useful way that makes Twitter better or different than other sources of news.
I can't think of another platform that carries a more diverse range of news and perspectives.

But that's beside the point. I was pointing out that X does allow non-logged in users view posts.

Text posts, yes. Videos can't be watched with volume on web as any interaction with the video player redirects you to the App Store
> Text posts, yes. Videos can't be watched with volume on web as any interaction with the video player redirects you to the App Store

While inconvenient, I would be surprised if isn't a relatively small use case. Most people who use X on their phones are using the app.

We're probably cross purposes, but, yes, you can view posts in isolation if directly linked to that individual post.

But try to go anywhere 'related' or follow a trail of replies and you're blocked by either a login prompt or a post limit or some other guest-unfriendly pattern. And that means, for me personally, that the original 'thing' is not worth the time because I can't follow the train of thought that it creates - which is probably why it's designed that way: annoy people into signing up.

I can not and will not reward that (mostly, I'm probably hypocritical in a couple of facets of my life choices).

Only if it's directly linked to you. Can't go scrolling on someone's profile without getting blocked by a pop-up. Also can't click a post and see replies.

Edit: also can't read a thread because each new post is considered a "reply", so blocked too.

It's possible that the lack of these alternatives will decrease engagement enough that Twitter would loosen these rules. Perhaps not that likely, but it's possible.
I'd say that's practically a given. Everyone that wants to have an account already has one, everyone else will not make an account just because they are bothered into making one.

Nitter and xcancel traffic must be negligible, they're doing this just to pretend they're doing stuff to justify their legal department wages.

Would be funny if this backfires and results in consequences/restrictions for their own (AI) scraping.
It goes against the whole “global town square" declaration.

Only if you're part of the club. If not, fuck off!

I choose to fuck off.

Want to come to the free town square ? Gotta show ID first to the guard at the wall
& the town square forces you to listen to famous gossippers and dumb popular people you've never heard of
... and so many people shilling scams as hard as they possibly can.
And you realize it isn’t the town square, but just the local ketamine heads backyard club.
The Ancient Mystic Society of No Bidens
(the guard will also sell you a loudspeaker and an "official" badge for a modest fee)
This. It bugs me that we can’t read without logging in, and other UX decisions that basically made me quit using it for like 7 or 8 months now.
You should've removed your account too.

You won't miss much.

We all hope the current age of enshitification will eventually end.
Enshitification doesn’t end. It collapses under its own weight as people get tired and instead stop using things or switch to some newer radically different paradigm.
> switch to some newer radically different paradigm.

What if there won’t be a critical mass of fediverse users for it to matter enough and centralised social media platforms are all that we’ll ever get?

Asking because things don’t always magically get better, for example phones are still mostly using locked down Android that bends to corporate whims and the alternative phone options are quite limited (how many Linux phones have failed to get mass market adoption?).

Ofc not all is grim, like Framework is doing some good work on repairable hardware in general and also in regards to software there are quite a few FOSS projects that respect the user etc., like Mastodon also exists and is actually decent to use.

I just think it’s important to acknowledge that the network effects of some of these established players are quite major.

> What if there won’t be a critical mass of fediverse users for it to matter enough and centralised social media platforms are all that we’ll ever get?

I know this might not be a popular view but I'd be fairly content with a fediverse that never scales to the size of platforms like reddit, a lot of the reasons I use the fediverse is because it resembles older forums or even reddit before it was enormous.

With every year passed the bar for a successful Linux phone got higher. Potential users expect more & more apps for internet-related services to run while the companies tear down their APIs making more 3rd-party apps impossible.

Facebook Messenger didn't have an XMPP API because Zuck was a nice guy back then.

What exactly is a Linux phone and how does that actually change anything?
A phone with a freedesktop.org/XDG, FHS-compliant userland whose software is fully hackable if the user of the device wants to.
The fact that you use fediverse and framework as some catchall for future innovation tells me you are really missing my point.

I am talking more about on the level of things like the migration of time spent watching television to time spent on Facebook on a pc to time spent swiping TikTok on an iPhone. None of these are inherently good or bad, but many of them exhausted their ability to grow and attract costumers and as a result doubled down on extracting value from an existing base - that’s what enshitification is or so I thought.

Seems inherent to capitalism. I think hope here is futile
One can always hope capitalism is replaced by space communism like in Star Trek.
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You don't have to comply with a cease and desist notice, depending on your risk tolerance. They're not legally binding, like court orders. Rather, they are threats, equivalent to "gimme your lunch money or I'll beat you up"
It depends on how deep your pockets are, not risk tolerance.

And the manbaby in charge will absolutely go after you.

That's risk tolerance. You can even choose not to have a lawyer (but you shouldn't) and then it costs you very little until you lose.
Yes and hiQ v. LinkedIn has already given us precedent that scraping is not inherently illegal, not to mention X's own scraping to train their AI.

Makes sense that they want to consult legal experts rather than just going with their gut though but I hope those legal experts will work something out that gets them back online.

I hope the EU makes it illegal
Yes, more regulations from the EU is what the internet needs /s
Unlikely.

The EU is first and foremost a business club. So the majority of EU rules are there to create a common market. If one participant is trying to be dodgy, then oftentimes a rule valid for all market participants is created, to re-establish the common market.

Sometimes it's even the producers that ask the EU to regulate it. E.g. all of those classes for vegetables originated from the producers. As a result, an egg of size "M" from Netherlands has the same size as an egg of the size "M" from France. And both can be sold in e.g. Belgium, since we now have a common market and common attributes. A customer seeing an "M" sized egg in the shelves doesn't need to ponder, he knows what he gets.

If some website needs a login so that you can view contents is completely outside of this. That is actually common, many newspapers and magazines do that. Its entirely to their discretion if they allow free public access, limited access, or paid access. One doesn't need to be Google Search, one can also be Kagi, so to say.

Implicitly its payment via data but most people don't understand. Theres an asymmetry in the transaction to me.
Both Imgur and Reddit have put a lot of roadblocks up lately as well. I think some of it is driven by trying to reduce bot traffic.

It's quite inconsistent though which is really frustrating. I can look at the imgur homepage feed, but if I go into a specific post and accidentally click anywhere it throws a modal up that can't be dismissed.

If I go on a specific subreddit or post I can freely look, but reddit homepage now pops a modal you can't dismiss.

This is on mobile browsers, of course both sites are pushing their apps.

I am sure it doesn't align with their incentives so they don't care, I will never have an account and never install the app, but why block me from viewing the site if I am still seeing the ads? Does the free ad model just not pay anymore, or is the selling user data model just that much more lucrative that they would rather no user at all if they aren't logged in?

Hide distracting items is great on the iPhone to delete elements on the page intuitively and it remembers what you hid.
Imgur is 80% posts of text for people trying to post political messages vs what it used to be, interesting or funny pictures

I guess that's their traffic so that's their market but ugh. Imagine if flickr or some other photo site was run over by people posting photos of text messags.

What imgur used to be was just an image host for reddit. Then they tried to make it into a separate community thing and reddit added their own image/video hosting.
I remember when Imgur tried to become a self-contained community.

Reddit users would post an image in Imgur and the "community" would reply complaining about the lack of context, judging appearances or just being mean in general. The nicest ones would ask users (that would never read anything) to make the images private.

It was a very strange alternate universe.

Imgur has been totally unusable in the UK for a couple of years - it's an irritant, because it's used for so many image embeds and I'm reluctant to fire up the VPN just so I can see someone's meme that they posted on a forum thread. Nobody has ever used Imgur as a destination site, it's a utility, and any attempts to make it a destination or an app you'd deliberately open are futile.

Reddit isn't so badly impacted, but there are still age-walls around some of the content where it's been deemed "adult" (which encompasses more than just graphic adult imagery).

I recently deleted all of my Reddit accounts. The website had been unusable on mobile for a good while, with the constant and ever-more-aggressive nagging about switching to the app. Old Reddit was the one thing that made the site still usable. And now that requires a login.

So fuck that. Bye Reddit. I'll miss some of the communities.

Same, the few communities that are worthwhile I still lurk through photon-reddit. It's a pity how the site went down, I only hope their stock value goes down in the same way.
It's been real annoying to no longer be able to visit reddit posts for search results as it has been the de-facto public forum where recommendations and solutions to issues get posted for a while now. Never going to login there again though and I think I will follow your example and have them delete my account.
> It's quite inconsistent though which is really frustrating. I can look at the imgur homepage feed, but if I go into a specific post and accidentally click anywhere it throws a modal up that can't be dismissed.

That's not inconsistent, that's a deliberate dark pattern that every social media site uses. Let them see the first page, then when they want to engage: force creating an account.

When you just put a "log in to see this page" up front, people will bounce. When you have them engaged a little bit, chances are they are already invested enough to create an account.

Exactly, and it also proves that it is not about limiting bot access.
> every social media site uses

It's not only social media anymore, many mainstream websites have started doing it.

For example on IMDB, you used to be able to read the comments, now they locked them behind a signup box.. it's only a matter of time until they lock the whole site down.

I wish we had the old internet, with simple html forms, texts and pictures.

The peek was really Web 2.0 design, it introduced just enough styles and interactivity to get rid of TABLES but no more than that.

The imdb move was truly stupid of Amazon, imo. I use to go there all the time for movie info but now its wikipedia and other alternatives and don't even bother with imdb.
That's not quite what I meant sorry, I meant Reddit handles it differently to Imgur (one blocks the homepage and one blocks deeper links but not thr homepage. I agree with what you're saying though
I remember using old.reddit to bypass login requirements and quite often it would let me read with VPN on (otherwise it kicks you out if you are not logged in with VPN on). Only recently did they introduce the same authentication blocks to the old.reddit, so I am assuming everyone was taking advantage of it
You have to log in to use old and new reddit now. The only way I can view reddit is through the mobile app without logging in.

They already AI shadowbanned me and nuke all of my accounts for participating in historical discussions that mentioned violent upheaval of power, thats why I can't login. I appreciate them helping me ween off using the site completely.

Thank you reddit, never thought I'd quit you. And I'm missing nothing but the exact same conversations over and over again.

This exactly, reddit and X can be good places to stay informed about what is going on in the world, but the constant negativity, astro-turfing and misinformation is quite unhealthy. I'm a fair bit more relaxed since 'reading reddit' isn't my morning ritual anymore.
I dropped Reddit after the Apollo/API fiasco and came here, and it's been a good change. I still skim Facebook occasionally for niche group stuff, by and large I just don't consider Reddit save for searches that take me there but the constant flood of interstitials has me avoiding it more and more even then
FYI web extension "Old Reddit Redirect" was just updated. Restores anonymous access and old reddit. I looked under the hood and it's just setting a "redesign_optout" cookie, so I'd say our days are numbered regardless.
> Does the free ad model just not pay anymore, or is the selling user data model just that much more lucrative that they would rather no user at all if they aren't logged in?

Traffic from google is probably in the process of collapsing, so these sites are trying to capture all the users they can as registered users before it's gone completely.

And yes, the free ad model is probably in the process of dying, the information that was once given away for free in return for looking at ads is now more valuable sold to llm's who will have the eyeballs going forward.

This will presumably make many on this site happy, since for many years an ad supported open web was consistently railed against.

> these sites are trying to capture all the users they can as registered users before it's gone completely

With the shuttering of nitter if this is what twitter wants then the least they could do is let you create an account. You need apple or google for that. It seems like they shut the front door some time ago and now drew the curtains so people couldn't peer in.

They managed to make it enticing enough for me just to see one person's posts to enter my email but said "fuck off and get the app". I'll have to make do with the 5 posts they show without login

> the information that was once given away for free in return for looking at ads is now more valuable sold to llm's who will have the eyeballs going forward.

I don't believe it.

Bots are the noisy excuse they can scream and point to. You look at the mobile reddit app or the new reddit interface and you think these javascript “devs” are capable of forming any valid opinion on these things?

This is the company that refers to its users as “daily active shitheads.” That’s a real quote.

They’re just screaming and pointing to anything they can so they can lock it down and gain more favorable data to sell and more legitimate accounts to show advertisers. That’s what it always is.

I’m never wrong and I’m tired of fake imposters devs telling me I am wrong at every corner of every single topic when I turn out to be right 100% of the time.

> I’m never wrong and I’m tired of fake imposters devs telling me I am wrong at every corner of every single topic when I turn out to be right 100% of the time.

If you truly believe this, then you should probably seek therapy.

Actually you can discard those annoying popups on reddit using some HTML element blocker (e.g. “hide distracting element” on safari or the picker tool from uBlock origin)

I had some success with these for logged-out browsing ever since old.reddit was locked down completely

It interesting because it suggests Musk doesn't need Twitter to swing anymore elections... He didn't buy it [solely] to make money from it.
Actually between us and X is not logged in but Xcancel itself I believe logs in. So it's not a login issue..
It's builtin adblocker, hehe, internet was full of shit for a while anyway. Books are the new internet.
> I just don’t read content on there any more

This is the sensible response. I'm always bemused by the reactions that go: "this is a garbage site but I am forced to use it every day". Be grateful that your social media addiction is now automatically mitigated! Go outside!

Not only requires you to log in, asks you your username once you do log in, which means for me I can't log in because I had a random username and there is no email from them where it is mentioned
X is really a bad joke with their "Public Town Square".
Wait until Musk discovers that without these additional services, people will care even less about what happens there.
Perhaps the ability to de-anonymize[1] users and algorithmically influence those remaining is more valuable to him than whatever ARPU is for Twitter, especially with significant elections coming up around thr world.

1. A lot of data vendors key information on phone numbers or email, that's why all rewards program are thirsty for it.

https://joinmastodon.org/

https://bsky.app/

https://www.threads.com/

Pick literally any one of those, just seriously, if you're still on that platform, leave.

They all get to the point where anime contents start flooding in pinning the system at capacity 24/7, scaring the wrong set of people, and then they chicken out and start dying a long death. This situation itself is downstream event of Twitter doing the same, in a sense.
I'm not sure why Threads makes your cut here, trading one walking negative externality of person in control for another is not really a sell to most folks.
it has Fediverse interop. Skepticism obviously is warranted towards the owners but you can at least interact with an open protocol or consume threads content from a Mastodon instance, say.
Aren't many big mastodon instances talking about blocking Threads?

I don't like the mastodon culture but tbh I can't fault them for this move. Imagine if every post on r/all suddenly shows up on HN.

There is no one "mastodon culture". The server I'm on (indieweb.social) absolutely is not blocking Threads.
And Twitter used to have open API access. And Facebook Messenger used to have Jabber compatibility. I don't think those companies deserve any trust in regards of promoting them for their open initiatives.

Threads' activity pub gimmick is just a nice to have. It's the salad of the Big Mac. If you're going to eat it anyway, sure, glad it is there, but it doesn't make it deserve a spot in any serious discussion about healthy food alternatives.

> it has Fediverse interop.

It has been completely abandoned AFAIK. As expected, the good ol' classic EEE attempt, but it just didn't work due to decentralized architecture and just lack of actual capability from Meta.

FYI, threads does not have fediverse interop for European users.

As in, if you use threads and are in Europe, you have no option to enable mastodon to read threads replies.

Facebook Messenger also used to have XMPP interop until they got the userbase they wanted and shut that down.
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Wasn’t xcancel, sort of by definition, for people who have already left X?
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An interesting new one for Canadians (that's built on AT and interops with bsky) is https://gandersocial.ca/. It uses our national postal service's identity validation, so it dramatically reduces foreign actors and bots, and without handing PII to shady private companies like Persona. They collect no PII either, they just get an "is_a_human" response back from Canada Post.

You can still do read-only things like see threads and follow users as an anonymous user. Just can't post or comment. Only thing I don't like is that it's app-only for now.

Can us non Canadians sign up somehow ?
From their FAQ[1] the plan is to allow other countries eventually but for now it's read-only for non-Canadians. I imagine they have no interest in private KYC like Persona and integrating with national identity providers can be a real pain, if that country even has a unified service.

[1]: https://gandersocial.ca/faq/

intersting take, I'm not Canadian but wasn't there some pretty draconian bills that were passed where you could be reported for voicing or sharing your opinions on some things ?

That already seems like a hard barrier for any sort of Canadian social network especially when you require your users to dox themselves and open themselves to all sorts of scrutiny.

The problem with all of this is that it creates a sterilized politically correct environment that won't have the same pull as a public square that upholds freedom of speech like American ones.

> intersting take, I'm not Canadian but wasn't there some pretty draconian bills that were passed where you could be reported for voicing or sharing your opinions on some things ?

Not a thing. You can't post hate speech or threats of violence.

> That already seems like a hard barrier for any sort of Canadian social network especially when you require your users to dox themselves and open themselves to all sorts of scrutiny.

Also not a thing. I was pretty clear all they get is a is_a_human".

> The problem with all of this is that it creates a sterilized politically correct environment that won't have the same pull as a public square that upholds freedom of speech like American ones.

Also not a thing. American platforms practice widespread self-censorship and have no protection under the law except from the state.

> they collect no PII

this is false.. Gander's own privacy policy says it collects account info including name/email/DOB IP, device ID and physical location.

> you can't post hate speech or threats of violence

is a pretty misleading summary of Canadian speech law, it prohibits public statements likely to expose protected groups to hatred or contempt, and covers public incitement and wilful promotion of hatred.

Even more disturbing is that Gander itself has literally published an article pushing Canadian hate speech laws should be expanded and enforced on social platforms.

> Also not a thing. American platforms practice widespread self-censorship and have no protection under the law except from the state.

1st aendment generally protects a user from government censorship, not from a private website deciding what it wants to host thats very different from American platforms having no protection.

I understand that you might view these laws and moderation policies are good but dismissing the concerns while mispresenting basic facts about the service and while promoting a social network seemingly started by a CTO from pornhub pushing for more censorship and broad application of Canadian hate speech, to say the least very disturbing and not a wise PR move.

Ah, yes, because I trust a social network founded by a guy that helped build Pornhub
Looked this up and yikes, Gander's CTO Jeff Wood did work at Pornhub.
All of these are seriously bad copycat alternatives of twitter. And since twitter's foundations are laid on moving bedrock.... the whole thing is a horrible abomination where the tendrils are these "alternatives".
I'll take the bait, what makes Bluesky a bad copycat? It's just old Twitter. I can't for the life of me see what makes it "seriously bad", it has a pretty large userbase, it's seemingly got a decent number of normies to move over from X, it's pleasant enough to use. It's been a success.

Saying this as one of twelve Mastodon users.

There is no bait. I just pointed out that instead of creating something new and unique, they copy something and add nothing......
The thing is, people liked old Twitter and then it got taken away from them with all of the changes to X, so there's merit in a clone of what was. Many such cases, WoW Classic's popularity as a random example.
My problem is. People do not even use their brains no more. Just copy that someone else made. They are essentially stealing, like mindless zombies. Why do we even have AI if people are at such low level mental capacity?
I don't post there anymore but I do still check my DMs once a week, because every now and then someone will find my work through there, and I need people to find my work in order to survive. I unfortunately can't easily trade that in for a platform that no one visits.
Don't just throw some competitor URLs and tell us to "leave."

What's wrong with X? How are these options better?

I don't think any of them are better, I especially do not want to be on bluesky. on X you could still do your own thing and not be tied to the political extremism but its not the case with bluesky, people automatically perceive you to support the founder's political views and it has nowhere the same reach as X which is why I think the negative connotations are stronger on bluesky than X

X is used internationally, especially big in Japan and has lot of adoption among working professionals. Just my two cents and I personally don't really like X much either. Threads also isn't that great either.

You mean besides it being a factory for child pornography?
I only use X (via XCancel etc) to read the updates from things like the local train company that they only post on X. They aren't on Bluesky or Mastodon. When I tried Mastodon, I found it too politically extreme, it felt like walking into an angry students' union meeting. It never seemed to catch on in the UK, it surfed a couple of waves of dissatisfaction with X, but people quickly drifted away.
I am already on fediverse. My friends are too. It's where I post my dumb opinions on movies and pictures of my cats. But that is not what I used nitter for. I used nitter to pull posts of organizations and reporters to deliver breaking news in my area to me fast. I did this via the RSS endpoint in nitter. These journalists and organizations only post on twitter that fast. Their websites are updated much slower and often also don't have RSS feeds or APIs for me to scrape. I wish these orgs post on fedi too but they don't. So what am I to do? Nitter was for us people that have already left X.
Have you tried reaching out to them and asking them to duplicate their posts to bluesky?
Why would I leave when it's a more engaging and vibrant platform than ever before? As well as still being just as useful, if not more so.
It's insane that their sign-up process now requires a phone number to complete on the web, and even basic features like playing a video in a tweet recently stopped working on x.com without an account. (In the past, searching for tweets, looking at an account's entire timeline, etc., never required logging in at all.)
It's not insane if you're trying to build a social network without bots and foreign interference.
But Twitter has and embraces that. The bots are all verified. Go on any tweet that mentions crypto or "my friends account got hacked" and dive into the deep well of hidden tweets.

Hiding tweets for users without accounts does absolutely nothing for either of those goals.

Twitter's removal of messages based on foreign government requests went up massively after the Musk takeover.
So where are the alternative instances popping up left and right? I thought the internet would detect a problem and route around it.
Regardless of the outcome, I’m very thankful for xcancel and all the excellent work they’ve done.

I wish them the best in the legal fight!

Whenever Meta is mentioned on HN, there will be HN users asking why people are still on Facebook or Instagram when we all know Meta hired psychology PHDs to make their products addictive yadda yadda. Usually you will just see people tell each other that they have gotten off Facebook before it became uncool. You hardly see anyone accusing each other of virtue signaling or having any kind of political slant.

But Twitter or X comes up, someone will say they don't use it, and people will start calling out their supposed virtue signaling and making wild speculations about their politics in no time.

Why?

Musk and his supporters project a lot. They have some neural condition or notoriety as popularity strategy or something that makes him/them hate everything, and they performatively state that "___ hates Elon"(often verbatim) out of that. It's not exactly organic.
I've never really noticed a difference in the trends for either. For the most part, all of the comments are about how anywhere but HN is complete shit and even HN is not as good as it used to be. There are always a few saying "but that's where everyone is". Inevitably, someone will post a link to something we all hate on constantly, be it one of these kinds of sites or a paywalled news article or whatever, and we're all just supposed to either know the currently working proxy or hope someone has already posted the link in the comments.
Believe it or not but outside the USA there are over a billion people who use Facebook, Instagram and WhatsApp services daily to conduct their daily lives and business. You do not speak for the average Indian or Indonesian and the world does not revolve around America.
Elon was more or less made in environments where the informational flow was free. I'm not sure what he thinks he's doing with all this.
It's likely not him directly, but the big legal teams of lawyers that need things to do.
I wonder why X waited until now to send cease and desist letters. I assumed the issue was resolved somehow - maybe they were unenforceable - long ago.

I'm also surprised they don't already have their response prepared to this inevitable event, though maybe they are just seeking to fine-tune it.

In the meanwhile for anyone that have android, use QuaX (still requires account)
The other day in the bay there was an amber alert. it had a bit.ly link which opened up twitter (or i guess x) app. that wouldnt let me see the alert unless i logged in.
well I guess I won't be reading anything on that hellsite anymore
First Instagram and Facebook, then Reddit, now Twitter. The is the new normal, paywalls and walled gardens everywhere. Not to get started on quickly increasing nation-state censorship and trail blazers such as China with the entirety of their national web locked down already.
XCancel was usefull, but so be it. I will see less content from X. Probably better this way.