For voters to actually be in control, they would have to do straightforward things like reject the obviously terrible destructionist candidate in favor of the milquetoast corpo stooge. I would love to say it's as principled as "I chose the wrench" from Good Will Hunting. But from everything I've surmised it's that mass media propaganda is really strong - most people simply can't fit more than one thing in their head at once. Focus them on how bad A is and they will eagerly choose B all day long despite being clearly worse.
A long time ago I had the realization that the primary information flow in democracy isn't the few bits from each citizen to the government, but rather it's from the candidates/parties to the people making them think they wanted any of the ensuing shit. And I'd say Grumpism has thoroughly proven that out. The people who used to be your average conservatives are now radical reactionary destructionists, and if you nudge them to ponder their former values they wince at thinking too hard and then get angry at you.
They really don't have to call a group far left or far right in their justification, because it sounds like weak credibility in search of social support. They could just call them a criminal organization seeking directly, or indirectly, to contribute to violence for political ends, which does not sound like the case here.
The name of the party is the Democratic Party. I am aware of Mamdani making that statement approximately 5 years before he ran for office. Who else has said that?
So this is the US government acting at the behest of neonazis: "
According to one anti-fascist research group, “Some of the most well-known NoBlogs sites belong to researchers who solely report on far-right hate and radicalization, never doing anything aside from showing you what exists.”
"
in their newest crusade generally championing the concept of fascism (which is what you get when you declare yourself anti-anti-fascist, as should be immediately evident to anyone with the ability to follow basica boolean logic).
> Trump is completely torching his term for Israel.
That is utter bullshit and you know it.
The US government has always been deathly afraid of anything left of what would be "conservative social democrats" in Europe - remember McCarthyism? The US certainly does not need Israel to tell it to hunt down leftists.
> Then you'll get your comments removed from this website if you mention the term "ZOG".
Because it's a ridiculous antisemitic conspiracy myth.
> Because it's a ridiculous antisemitic conspiracy myth.
This perceived overlap of antisemitism and anti-zionism has been shown many times to be a false equivalence.
It does nobody any good to conflate Zionism which is a very real fascist Israeli supremacy movement, with Semitism which refers to Jewishness regardless of culture or country.
As with many Fascist movements it is very much in the interest of those who follow the a Supremacy movement to conflate opposition of their movement with persecution of their culture.
> It does nobody any good to conflate Zionism which is a very real fascist Israeli supremacy movement, with Semitism which refers to Jewishness regardless of culture or country.
No. Zionism at its core is just the opinion that there needs to be a state of Israel, to serve as a "last safe haven" for all Jews in the world.
And what is "a state of Israel"? Obviously it needs to meet some criteria to count as a state of Israel. If I bought a farm and called it Israel it wouldn't meet the criteria.
Some of those criteria are that it must include Jerusalem, and it must be a Jewish ethnostate.
"ZOG" claims way too much, is inactionable, and ultimately just feeds the reactionary dumpster fire that has created our current predicament. "Please don't release the real Epstein files Mr Bibi Sir" suffices.
Assuming this is a serious question: There are people who are not themselves fascists who object to the direct action tactics (read: violence, vandalism) sometimes employed under the banner of "antifa."
These people are easy to find. Listen for people who are acting like a hero because they boycott Amazon or some other with-your-wallet kind of activism, and suggest nonviolent sabotage. They clutch their pearls so hard, each becomes a tiny neutron star, and you can then triangulate their position in real space based on the gravitational waves from those collapses.
It's always curious to me how property damage weighs the same or worse than violence against real humans.
I've had people tell me with a straight face that broken windows make one group just as bad as the group threatening violence based on ethnic lines. I don't get it.
Parent also said 'violence', why did you conveniently choose to ignore that? Antifa has absolutely enacted physical violence on actual human beings. Ah, I know, Antifa is just an idea! That violence cannot be attributed to them.
The Weather Underground committed over a dozen bombings back in the day and the only deaths were WU members from a failed explosive. The wikipedia page has a table of right-wing terror attacks while the page for left-wing terror mostly describes guerilla groups in civil wars.
Generally no, Antifa is not a violent organization in the same way that violent white-nationalist/neonazi groups are violent.
Antifa hasn't shot up a church/synagogue/mosque. Followers of modern fascist sects have.
You're either willfully ignorant or purposefully biased to consider them on the same playing field.
I'll just post this one reply because you seem to have a completely tribalistic perspective and I don't have the time to be sucked into a tribalistic black-hole:
From the average person's perspective, who is neither a Fascist/Nazi/Far-Right Extremist nor Antifa/Far-Left/wte - nobody cares about your violence Olympics, the fact that your opponent tribe claims the Gold medal while yours claims Silver or Bronze, is completely irrelevant to us. And the particular problem is that everybody is aware of the danger of the one tribe, but then there are people like you who dismiss and whitewash the excesses of yours just because "the other guy is worse".
“Antifa has…” is like saying “Nerds have” or “Hackers have”. It is really only a broad label, either assigned by one self or by others. I know people who are strictly against any violence and still proud to use Antifa “branding”. Others wouldn’t want to be called Antifa but are called that by others.
You are a HN user. Saying “HN users have enacted physical violence” and implying it is all of them is just utter bs.
Fascists have…” is like saying “Nerds have” or “Hackers have”. It is really only a broad label, either assigned by one self or by others. I know people who are strictly against any violence and still proud to use Fascist “branding”. Others wouldn’t want to be called Fascist but are called that by others.
You are a HN user. Saying “HN users have enacted physical violence” and implying it is all of them is just utter bs.
reply
Fascists are just against the rule of law. They designed a multi tiered system where they have more rights than the one they judge inferior. An antifascist is someone who fights against fascists, either violently or, more often, through documenting of fascist groups, taking pictures and counter protesting.
If someone were to come to my workplace and smash a window, for example, I think it's pretty fair to interpret that as a threat that they might smash the people working there next.
itll make more sense if you consider that the right wing has been selling the idea that there is only one fredom/right - property ownership under capitalism
and with that hayek setup, the property isore important than the life. you can be tortured, imprisoned and murdered, but as long as you still own a factory, you are a free man.
its silly, buts its the driving idea behind western culture for the past 40-50 years or so
It makes you okay with golfing, or not care enough about the impacts and implications of golfing to form an opinion.
It's like they say: if there is a golfer at a table and 10 other people talking with him, you have 11 golfers.
Sports preferences are also not typically mutually exclusive - even the most unforgiveable golfer may still be pro-basketball, baseball - even hockey, in rare cases.
Political ideologies are very often _not_ like that.
Judging from noblog's opening statement of "connecting radical people" together with a welcoming bomb, I'd suspect they are very welcoming to open, peaceful discussions, particulary with those holding opposing views.
> "When fascism returns, it will not say, 'I am fascism.' No, it will say, 'I am anti-fascism.'"
– Ignazio Silone
From a European perspective, one has long wondered what this government actually considers NOT to be terrorism. The violent storming of a national symbol of democracy is clearly not one of them.
This doesn't exactly make one want to spend their next vacation in the USA – even though, admittedly, we have our own problems here.
Get right the frak out. No. This is the most ridiculous cope. There's nothing like this creeping horrifying terrormongering fascism. This use of the state against any and everyone who doesn't fall into line.
It isn't a cope. They are pointing out the fact that the state has been used against the opposition multiple times in the past by authoritarians, by both the US (this goes beyond DT's gov too) and socialist governments (although they often use the term "reactionaries" instead).
Who did Obama sick the DOJ on? Who did Biden? How? Did his lackies at the FCC bully media companies, threaten to take them off the air for what their comedians did? What noblogs.org did they go after? Did they tell everyone the un-cities were violent overrun places that needed that national guard sent in? Did Obama's personal lawyer get to run the DOJ?
The left/"socialists", generally, these days, seem to believe pretty strongly in individuals liberty. They aren't the same rank hypocrites who crow and cry foul every chance they get, only to violate those same principles as soon as it's convenient.
> The left/"socialists", generally, these days, seem to believe pretty strongly in individuals liberty.
The “left”, whether you mean left ultras or left-liberals, generally do not respect individual freedoms in my experience. They redefine liberty to exclude rights they don’t believe in (the right does as well). Polls have shown that the public as a whole, including the left, is becoming more hostile towards many individual liberties, especially freedom of speech. Even more concerning, support for political violence is gradually climbing.
Socialists are a mixed bag. In my experience, the more educated they are, the more they publicly espouse support for individual liberties, at least during academic discussions. But there’s a disturbing trend of “joking” about rights violations in casual conversation, mirroring the same trend on the right.
The word "terrorist" is almost always used in a propaganda context. There's a good book you should check out, that surveys media mentions and provides hard statistical evidence for this: Manufacturing Consent.
The American Right are spending a surprising amount of resources on fucking over Europe. Once piece of good news about a future US economic crash is that there'd be no money left to do that. After Elon gets a tax bill from a new progressive administration whose answer to "You can't tax your way out of America's problems" is either "Well lets at least try" or even "If the effect is just to get rid of the billionaires we're OK with that too" your local racists may find he's too distracted to wire them some more cash for their antics.
But maybe that's just wishful thinking, it's not as though there weren't fascists about, they just didn't have the same funding before.
>This doesn't exactly make one want to spend their next vacation in the USA – even though, admittedly, we have our own problems here.
Don't worry, Trump and Musk will export their model to Europe. They guys and gals who were easily bought by Russia when it had money will very gladly side with the richest and gaudiest men on Earth.
"I am a freedom fighter, you are a rebel, and he is a terrorist."
Going against the US regime means you're a terrorist. If you instead bomb a "terrorist nation", i.e. "a nation not aligned with the US regime"'s schoolgirls, you're a freedom fighter.
> From a European perspective, one has long wondered what this government actually considers NOT to be terrorism.
The definition hasn't really changed regardless of the U.S. President: If you kneel to current U.S. Administration policy, then you can be a mass-murdering, torturing, rapist head-chopper and you will still be a "good guy".
If you object to whatever the current US policy is and are small fry, then you are a bad terrorist begging to be eliminated by the American Military Machine. You become a valuable elimination target of US intel/war-corpo investment.
I think it is the reverse situation - the US government is a global terrorist. Canada noticed this too recently again, when the USA tried to sneakily put in abusive clauses that would take advantage of Canadians and put them as second class citizens in the new trade agreement. Trump acts as a mafia and now we know that "The Art of the Deal" is a mafia slogan.
“They are either the hero or the victim, but never the perpetrator.” - Narcissist ethos
“Narcissism has more in common with self-hatred than with self-admiration.” - Christopher Lasch
“The four core pillars of narcissism, as defined by clinical psychologist Dr. Ramani Durvasula, are a lack of empathy, grandiosity, a chronic sense of entitlement, and a constant need for admiration and validation” - America Psychology Association (possibly a global terrorist organization)
More dark triad because pure narcissicm misses the transactional behaviour and the psychopathy where a clear perception of reality is sometimes muddled.
All three dark triad traits are believed to be conceptually distinct, although empirical evidence shows them to be overlapping. They are associated with a callous–manipulative interpersonal style.[8]
Narcissism is characterized by grandiosity, pride, egotism, and a lack of empathy.[9]
Machiavellianism is characterized by manipulativeness, indifference to morality, lack of empathy, and a calculated focus on self-interest.[10][11]
Psychopathy is characterized by continuous antisocial behavior, impulsivity, selfishness, callous and unemotional traits (CU),[12] and remorselessness.[13]
Yes I think most of those boxes are checked. I’m still somewhat fascinated/baffled by the fact that many people seem to paradoxically associate these traits with “good leadership.” It’s a tale as old as time.
Being far-left is now officially terrorism. Now they will start move the bar one step at a time, one organization at a time, to cut off every political movement that does not align.
And a bit rich that it mentions its reasoning included the Kirk assassination. Kirk was starting to make noise about the Epstein stuff, so Trump personally called him and told him to knock it off. Shortly after he was assassinated.
IMO this comment perfectly exemplifies the process that advances society's slide towards fascism:
> Just like being far-right was.
This is simply not true. Just like so many lies repeated ad nauseam by the right-wing media machine, it has convinced a huge part of the US population that the opposition genuinely wants to hurt and destroy them, so now they have no problem with doing the same to them. A terrifyingly huge portion of them is actively and gleefully applauding every time their sides manages to "own the libs", right down to citizens being shot while exercising their rights.
If you look back at Nazi propaganda against Jewish people, it's the same pattern. They convinced their followers of so many terrible things this minority group is doing just to hurt and spite "the common man", until said followers were ready to do all those things to them.
When a vice president tells people that minority groups are eating pets and him literally admitting that it's a lie doesn't dissuade his voters from believing it to be true, you have all the ingredients necessary to enable the next Holocaust.
Nitpicking here, but nazi repression was not only against jewish people. Also against other claimed inferior races (eg. tsigans), but also handicapped people, homosexuals... and very relevant to this thread, communists and anarchists.
Yeah, good point. I only mentioned Jewish people because that's where I've seen the strong similarities between the propaganda then and now, but I'm sure there's also plenty of examples for the other groups that were targeted.
No, they decided only on support for the Kurdish PKK, which is only under right-wing states a terrorist org. Everyone knows they are not one for decades.
Equating the two seems pretty "radically centrist". Also I'm not so sure that's accurate given that the far right continues to gain legal political power in the EU (and the US for that matter).
Good, it's about time the radical left is held to account for promoting and enacting violence unchecked for the past few decades, while at the same time anyone opposing insane Progressive policies and social engineering has been branded a far-right extremist.
And not over any good cause either, just violence for violence sake, no principles, no stakes.
These people arrested trying to assassinate 47? Either right or neutral. The presidents own people.
The right as always is desperately relying on projection. Their media systems blare that the cities are unlivable hell, that social order is breaking down, that antifa is burning cities down. The pitiful lies to deluded base, low engagement that they are, happy to be baited, laps it up. The right are insurrectionist psychos, are anti-social maniacs deluded and violent.
What are some big unchecked violent acts from the Radical American Left the last few decades? I'm making a big list and don't want to leave any of them out.
Bombing pregnancy centers. Sabatoging rail lines. Carrying out assassination attempts on federal officers. Attempting to burn police officers alive after chaining the doors shut. Lynchings of Horace Lorenzo Anderson and Antonio Mays Jr. Attempts to crash police helicopters with laser attacks.
insane progressive policies like giving people access to healthcare and a living wage? got it.
I'd be angry if I wasn't so disappointed how you and millions of others who think like you can be utterly allergic to logic, but I'm not angry. I pity you. I pity you because you're a victim of fascist brainwashing. It must make you feel so helpless to have to ideologically align with a child rapist and his cronies.
Yeah they are insane, and you throwing a tantrum because other opinions than yours exist shows who is the brainwashed one. I won’t apologize because I understand economics and think your policies are insane.
To moderators: So I’m getting downvoted for stating my political opinion but this comment is directly calling names and calling me brainwashed just because they disagree with me and it’s fine and dandy. You should be ashamed of yourselves for letting this be the state of discourse in here.
sorry, I missed the news about the radical left violently trying to overturn election results by storming the Capitol, killing an officer, and threatening to kill members of the government; maybe you could link to it?
143 comments
[ 0.33 ms ] story [ 16.3 ms ] threadThis proves once again who runs the US Gov, it is not the voters but the ultra-rich.
A long time ago I had the realization that the primary information flow in democracy isn't the few bits from each citizen to the government, but rather it's from the candidates/parties to the people making them think they wanted any of the ensuing shit. And I'd say Grumpism has thoroughly proven that out. The people who used to be your average conservatives are now radical reactionary destructionists, and if you nudge them to ponder their former values they wince at thinking too hard and then get angry at you.
Most jurisdictions will prosecute you under terrorism laws for that.
The "adjectives" (far-left) are there just explain to the public what kind of terrorism they are talking about.
And it works!
History doesn't repeat, but it sure rhymes...
So this is the US government acting at the behest of neonazis: " According to one anti-fascist research group, “Some of the most well-known NoBlogs sites belong to researchers who solely report on far-right hate and radicalization, never doing anything aside from showing you what exists.” " in their newest crusade generally championing the concept of fascism (which is what you get when you declare yourself anti-anti-fascist, as should be immediately evident to anyone with the ability to follow basica boolean logic).
Cool, cool.
https://2009-2017.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2013/05/209499.htm
Jolly good fellow.
Then you'll get your comments removed from this website if you mention the term "ZOG". If this is not ZOG, then what is it?
That is utter bullshit and you know it.
The US government has always been deathly afraid of anything left of what would be "conservative social democrats" in Europe - remember McCarthyism? The US certainly does not need Israel to tell it to hunt down leftists.
> Then you'll get your comments removed from this website if you mention the term "ZOG".
Because it's a ridiculous antisemitic conspiracy myth.
This perceived overlap of antisemitism and anti-zionism has been shown many times to be a false equivalence. It does nobody any good to conflate Zionism which is a very real fascist Israeli supremacy movement, with Semitism which refers to Jewishness regardless of culture or country.
As with many Fascist movements it is very much in the interest of those who follow the a Supremacy movement to conflate opposition of their movement with persecution of their culture.
No. Zionism at its core is just the opinion that there needs to be a state of Israel, to serve as a "last safe haven" for all Jews in the world.
Some of those criteria are that it must include Jerusalem, and it must be a Jewish ethnostate.
I've had people tell me with a straight face that broken windows make one group just as bad as the group threatening violence based on ethnic lines. I don't get it.
Generally no, Antifa is not a violent organization in the same way that violent white-nationalist/neonazi groups are violent.
Antifa hasn't shot up a church/synagogue/mosque. Followers of modern fascist sects have.
You're either willfully ignorant or purposefully biased to consider them on the same playing field.
From the average person's perspective, who is neither a Fascist/Nazi/Far-Right Extremist nor Antifa/Far-Left/wte - nobody cares about your violence Olympics, the fact that your opponent tribe claims the Gold medal while yours claims Silver or Bronze, is completely irrelevant to us. And the particular problem is that everybody is aware of the danger of the one tribe, but then there are people like you who dismiss and whitewash the excesses of yours just because "the other guy is worse".
I hope you have a good day.
You are a HN user. Saying “HN users have enacted physical violence” and implying it is all of them is just utter bs.
You are a HN user. Saying “HN users have enacted physical violence” and implying it is all of them is just utter bs. reply
and with that hayek setup, the property isore important than the life. you can be tortured, imprisoned and murdered, but as long as you still own a factory, you are a free man.
its silly, buts its the driving idea behind western culture for the past 40-50 years or so
It’s also curious to me why people espousing freedom hand waive property destruction
It's like they say: if there is a golfer at a table and 10 other people talking with him, you have 11 golfers.
Sports preferences are also not typically mutually exclusive - even the most unforgiveable golfer may still be pro-basketball, baseball - even hockey, in rare cases.
Political ideologies are very often _not_ like that.
> "When fascism returns, it will not say, 'I am fascism.' No, it will say, 'I am anti-fascism.'" – Ignazio Silone
Maybe working under ruthless, hierarchical corporate structures all your life breaks your brain a little.
Can't make it real
This doesn't exactly make one want to spend their next vacation in the USA – even though, admittedly, we have our own problems here.
Anyone willing to line their pockets, it seems.
The left/"socialists", generally, these days, seem to believe pretty strongly in individuals liberty. They aren't the same rank hypocrites who crow and cry foul every chance they get, only to violate those same principles as soon as it's convenient.
The “left”, whether you mean left ultras or left-liberals, generally do not respect individual freedoms in my experience. They redefine liberty to exclude rights they don’t believe in (the right does as well). Polls have shown that the public as a whole, including the left, is becoming more hostile towards many individual liberties, especially freedom of speech. Even more concerning, support for political violence is gradually climbing.
Socialists are a mixed bag. In my experience, the more educated they are, the more they publicly espouse support for individual liberties, at least during academic discussions. But there’s a disturbing trend of “joking” about rights violations in casual conversation, mirroring the same trend on the right.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_Street#Government_...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kiriakou
No, they were not a brazen and stupid as trump, but they violated nearly as many civil liberties.
Obama executed a US citizen on terror charges without a trial, for starters
But maybe that's just wishful thinking, it's not as though there weren't fascists about, they just didn't have the same funding before.
Don't worry, Trump and Musk will export their model to Europe. They guys and gals who were easily bought by Russia when it had money will very gladly side with the richest and gaudiest men on Earth.
Going against the US regime means you're a terrorist. If you instead bomb a "terrorist nation", i.e. "a nation not aligned with the US regime"'s schoolgirls, you're a freedom fighter.
They're all the same person.
(How long till the world declares the US a "terrorist nation"?)
When and if they do they will be many decades late
The definition hasn't really changed regardless of the U.S. President: If you kneel to current U.S. Administration policy, then you can be a mass-murdering, torturing, rapist head-chopper and you will still be a "good guy".
If you object to whatever the current US policy is and are small fry, then you are a bad terrorist begging to be eliminated by the American Military Machine. You become a valuable elimination target of US intel/war-corpo investment.
“Narcissism has more in common with self-hatred than with self-admiration.” - Christopher Lasch
“The four core pillars of narcissism, as defined by clinical psychologist Dr. Ramani Durvasula, are a lack of empathy, grandiosity, a chronic sense of entitlement, and a constant need for admiration and validation” - America Psychology Association (possibly a global terrorist organization)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSPM-7
And a bit rich that it mentions its reasoning included the Kirk assassination. Kirk was starting to make noise about the Epstein stuff, so Trump personally called him and told him to knock it off. Shortly after he was assassinated.
Just like being far-right was. Wow, who could have seen this political war coming?
People also complained about insider trading for years (Pelosi), and that the president was too old and pardoned everyone (Biden).
Well, Trump is doing it all to the extreme. Now people are concerned.
> Just like being far-right was.
This is simply not true. Just like so many lies repeated ad nauseam by the right-wing media machine, it has convinced a huge part of the US population that the opposition genuinely wants to hurt and destroy them, so now they have no problem with doing the same to them. A terrifyingly huge portion of them is actively and gleefully applauding every time their sides manages to "own the libs", right down to citizens being shot while exercising their rights.
If you look back at Nazi propaganda against Jewish people, it's the same pattern. They convinced their followers of so many terrible things this minority group is doing just to hurt and spite "the common man", until said followers were ready to do all those things to them.
When a vice president tells people that minority groups are eating pets and him literally admitting that it's a lie doesn't dissuade his voters from believing it to be true, you have all the ingredients necessary to enable the next Holocaust.
The right is far more angry and violent. https://ccjs.umd.edu/feature/umd-led-study-shows-disparities... https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/right-wing-extremist-v...
And not over any good cause either, just violence for violence sake, no principles, no stakes.
These people arrested trying to assassinate 47? Either right or neutral. The presidents own people.
The right as always is desperately relying on projection. Their media systems blare that the cities are unlivable hell, that social order is breaking down, that antifa is burning cities down. The pitiful lies to deluded base, low engagement that they are, happy to be baited, laps it up. The right are insurrectionist psychos, are anti-social maniacs deluded and violent.
I'd be angry if I wasn't so disappointed how you and millions of others who think like you can be utterly allergic to logic, but I'm not angry. I pity you. I pity you because you're a victim of fascist brainwashing. It must make you feel so helpless to have to ideologically align with a child rapist and his cronies.
To moderators: So I’m getting downvoted for stating my political opinion but this comment is directly calling names and calling me brainwashed just because they disagree with me and it’s fine and dandy. You should be ashamed of yourselves for letting this be the state of discourse in here.