There are 100's of millions that hope so, not only him but the rest of the fools who are in his orbit.This has been the most disgusting and corrupt Administration since the founding of America.
He is a democratically elected president. I would rather that we respect his immunity and instead the entirety of US is put under sanctions since the majority of its population voted for him... I know it's cruel and disproportional but there's a country on Earth that uses that stick (guess which).
There is zero mechanism by which the ICC can indict Trump. Its jurisdiction is only over signature countries and their territories; the US is not a signatory country.
> "President Trump will never allow the International Criminal Court to prosecute Americans," Secretary of State Marco Rubio said in a statement, first published by Reuters.
Can't think of a more flagrant and succinct declaration that the US believes itself "above the law."
>> "President Trump will never allow the International Criminal Court to prosecute Americans," Secretary of State Marco Rubio said in a statement, first published by Reuters.
> Can't think of a more flagrant and succinct declaration that the US believes itself "above the law."
So would you think of yourself "above the law" if you refused to submit to my law?
Apparently the US never ratified the ICC treaty. International relations is literally an anarchy, there's no "higher authority" to impose law. Countries can only voluntarily submit to a treaty, or be violently coerced by another country.
This is not "the US", this is one or two very unpopular politicians whose tenure will be short. Wait until the midterm elections before you judge the whole country.
> This is not "the US", this is one or two very unpopular politicians whose tenure will be short
Trump has been in office for 6 years. Because 2/3 of America either voted him in or didn't bother showing up. I've been reading people say "he's unpopular" for a decade. But America voted him in again, this time with more power than he's ever had before.
There is no way to decouple his legacy from America anymore. You would have to have a blowout midterm with a Senate supermajority that can roll back everything he's done.
This is largely consistent with historical US views on international law. In 2002 the US passed the American Service-Members' Protection Act, which states that if any US service member or elected official is criminally prosecuted by the ICC, the president can use "any means necessary" (i.e. invading the Hague) to ensure their release.
In general any idea that international law is relevant except as a tool for the West to provide moral justification for its actions when it's convenient to do so is naive. At least the Trump administration being much more vulgar and crude in expressing its disregard for international law compared to previous administrations may open more people's eyes.
Another reason to fund the efforts to decouple from US companies, including payment processors. More investment in open source software and open weight models should be the priority of all governments and initiatives.
That was a bribe, a chunk of gold wrapped on a poor excuse to gave it legally.
The funny part is that Apple did exactly the same. Everybody did exactly the same in a "pay per access" endless chain of CEOS. but for some reason nobody has mocked them for that. Only South Park, that never miss one.
Is true that the FIFA excuse was particularly imbecile.
> "President Trump will never allow the International Criminal Court to prosecute Americans"
... but his government does support the ICC prosecuting Russians, on behalf of Ukraine, even though none of the two states is a party to the Rome statute / member of the court.
The U.S. wants to retain the right to commit war crimes without someone charging U.S. officials or soldiers with them, they have the sovereign right to commit war crimes. Russia doesn't, Iraq doesn't. The U.S. does, Israel does.
That is the 'International rules-based order' as opposed to the U.N. international law order.
?? Not sure. Can you provide examples of condemning for war crimes those and other regimes in the current times? I may be wrong, but I am getting the vibe of "free for all until somebody bigger shouts that's enough" - more clearly, I am not seeing ethical stances defended.
The 'international rules-based order' was established by the US at the end of WWII as the legal framework for rebuilding Europe after the war.
Honest question, what makes you think the US, China, or Russia need to abide by legal agreements made 80 years ago by people who aren't around anymore? Those three countries have since agreed amongst themselves that the 'international rules-based order' was a mistake, and nobody else has a big enough stick to do anything about it.
> The 'international rules-based order' was established by the US at the end of WWII as the legal framework for rebuilding Europe after the war.
The 'international rules-based order' is used today by the U.S. to imply to a naive reader that they mean international law as defined by the UN, whereas in fact they mean the world order where they're the world police, which essentially started after WWII and really kicked into another gear in the 90s when the U.S became the undisputed dominant power.
The phrase today is used merely as a ploy to suggest the U.S. is not acting alone/without UN approval in cases it in fact does precisely that.
> Honest question, what makes you think the US, China, or Russia need to abide by legal agreements made 80 years ago by people who aren't around anymore?
I dunno. I would like things like the Geneva Conventions to outlive their original authors, thank you very much.
As an aside, I don't think China's foreign policy can be casually compared to that of the U.S.
US sovereignty requires being able to perform war crimes with impunity. Surprise double-tap strikes on civilian boats in the Atlantic are an example of them.
I'll admit it's hard for me to debate which war crime is worse. I see your point, but I just can't fathom scores of dead children, even if it's negligence rather than purposeful.
He's used this admin as an opportunity to make war. Iran, Venezuela, and he hopes soon Cuba. He was instrumental in pushing for intervention in these cases.
> In 2022 the current Secretary of State, then a Senator, co-sponsored a resolution backing the Court’s jurisdiction over Russians accused of crimes in Ukraine.
Friendly reminder that if you look at population numbers its AFAIR less than 1/3rd of the world population whose countries recognize the ICC, which is an absolute minority.
Reuters isn't owned by the US Govt, but AFP is a public body (although with a pretense of independence) built in the office of the former OFI in 1944, which was Vichy's propaganda ministry.
How do you call a country where public press is so much owned or subsidized by the govt that other press can't survive, where press has guidelines of things to say, where voting happens without the ability for voters to check their vote was counted (witnesses were removed from witnessing the vote counting in France, when it's not total electronic), where they import voters to sway elections, and where the FISC publishes lists of people with a house and account numbers and amoints so hostage takers can target the right house and ask the right thing? Where police or train conductors take no action against fraudsters unless they are white, preferrably grandmas? SNCF has always been the most participant to exactions, they're breaking no tradition here.
What's holding me in Europe is clearly not democracy. Candidate for US or AU visa here, I'm rich but AU has closed the wealth-based visa.
Define healthy. You mean like the EU that constantly tries to install a surveillance state by backdooring cryptography and requiring age verification while killing off small businesses and internet forums with regulation? Or UK where you get sacked for social media posts? Or Germany where saying something mean about the ruling class gets you a knock at the door at 6am in the morning? The country that tries to ban their biggest political party? [...]
> who value science
Are you so sure about that? I was curious, so I took the Nature Index[0] and checked which countries support the ICC[1], then calculated share of contributions for both groups:
Countries Share %
ICC members 119 39,126.87 31.35%
Non-members 68 85,653.15 68.64%
Territories / aggregates (n/a) 9 8.00 0.01%
Total 196 124,788.02
(US and China, the two top of the list are 63% alone.)
Some people on here really have a hard time accepting simple facts and the fact that my stating of a simple fact led to downvotes/flag is a testament to that.
> Friendly reminder that if you look at population numbers
i think it's funny that you tried to cast doubt but couldn't even do that because you lead with the glaring flaw in your reasoning instead of your rhetorical point. congrats.
it's not really what we wanted, it's what we were taught. decades of defunding education and not modernizing the system that was originally based on apartheid, the creation of media conglomerates that advocate for anti-intellectualism, all of it just run rampant and increasingly unchecked, the large scale smearing of academic institutions from the outside and the insidious internal replacement of academics by administrators
the current version of the US was orchestrated deliberately by our wealthiest elites (eg Koch, Murdoch, etc) - the pleebs were becoming too powerful and now they're over-correcting
since when have we been defunding education? over the past 60 years the per pupil spending on education has increased pretty substantially. you can argue that the funds aren't well allocated but it's objectively false that we've been reducing funding for education over multiple decades.
the per-pupil number is a deliberate red herring. spending increases only cover increasingly expensive private contracts, expensive administrators who often contribute little of value in terms of actually educating pupils, and liabilities
teacher pay-rate and total comp are better indicators of defunding and they are dismal: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d21/tables/dt21_211.60.a... - this shows pay rates have stagnated since the 70s and some have even dropped relative to the inflation of the past 50 years
The % of GDP numbers seem to show, for elementary and secondary schools, rises and falls. It, fluctuates. Except for a dip in the 80s its been between 4.0% and 4.5% since 1967.
> the per-pupil number is a deliberate red herring. spending increases only cover increasingly expensive private contracts, expensive middle-managers who often contribute little of value in terms of actually educating pupils, and liabilities
Is that not just a more detailed explanation of what the comment said? jayglow said
> you can argue that the funds aren't well allocated
You have explained how they have been badly allocated. Its a general pattern in the western world's government expenditure on many things.
those two thirds living in the wrong states for it to matter, wouldn’t have voted the way you wanted and would have resulted in the same distribution of votes we already have?
Correct, the sentiment would have been the same distribution of votes across states. The electoral college distribution would have been the same 312 to 226 and not close at all
The way you talk about things could have easily resulted in California’s 54 electoral college votes flipping to the majority resulting in 366 electoral votes for the winner. Your numbers are spread across where people actually live after all, as opposed to a campaign swing state
I said nothing about non-voters. I voted. NOT for Trump and not for Spiderman or some fantastical shit. My point was, of those who voted, near 50% of us DID NOT VOTE for Trump. We, have been for a decade, fighting this monstrous trash fire.
I don't know why I'm getting down-voted by HN oligarchs for saying that over 1/2 of Americans were NOT for Trump and his dictatorial BS. Keep down-voting though, this is par for the course here.
The US' problems won't end when Trump leaves office, and things wouldn't have been much different if he'd not been elected the second time: the wars and calamity have been on the table for a long time.
Nobody cares about Americans having prosperity and happiness when their nation has been dropping bombs on innocent human beings every 15 minutes on average, for the past 26 years.
YES! I agree with you. I am an American standing in opposition to this admin and all government corruption. No one should care about our prosperity when we are acting the same and China, Russia, N Korea et al. Its disgusting and we are propagandized to the hilt.
Nah that is not Cyberpunk Tech enough, and also far too close to visuals and ideas of the working class rebelling against the people in power.
I could imagine something _like_ that happen, but it would be a different kind of spectacle, where it is ensured that it projects ideas that _stabilize_ the current structure.
__
Hmm.. although, if they have a good propaganda guy, they might actually do the Guillotine and annex that symbol as an ultimate power move.
> I could imagine something _like_ that happen, but it would be a different kind of spectacle, where it is ensured that it projects ideas that _stabilize_ the current structure.
Perhaps the government could hold a lottery for a spot on the firing squad. I’m sure there are plenty of loyal patriots that would be willing to pay* the $500 entry fee. The patriotic non-fake news media could do a human* interest story on the lucky winner, with before and after interviews and maybe a photo-op with SecWar.
It should be sad but not shocking. They deliberately campaigned on causing maximum destruction, grief and chaos, and frequently used the phrase "we're going to make so much money." It was totally transparent and out in the open what the plan was, and people voted for that plan.
Only three countries carry out public executions: Iran, Afghanistan, and North Korea. I guess there will be four now, with the U.S. joining this "prestigious" group.
Do something about it. Don't just let it happen. Don't say it's too hard or nothing is going to change. Don't let them win by default. Your government is supposed to be by the people, for the people. Remind them of that.
In Serbia, people protested for two years straight, giant protests, marches all over the country, until the government resigned and new elections were called.
> In Serbia, people protested for two years straight, giant protests, marches all over the country, until the government resigned and new elections were called.
We already reelect the entire Congress every two years, we don't have to do this.
Moreover, we also have set record protests in recent years larger than the ones you cite. Hands Off protest was a million+. No Kings I, II, and III was like 20 million people across those protests.
Furthermore, we did do something about it and we got rid of all these people once already. The problem is about half the country wants this to happen, so they were invited back to do more.
Country that supports war criminals and helps genocidares and land thiefs by giving them free bombs and planes, sanctioned organization that punishes such acts. Not a big surprise.
You would think google, microsoft and apple would be having kittens over this. How will any government or large corporation trust their goods and services if they can be disabled at will because the USA government takes offence to you, or someone in your department. Good for linux I guess but pain for the rest of us.
"The White House considers anyone that uses the term, “Artificial Intelligence,” as opposed to the highly accepted new and more accurate term, “Super Intelligence,” THE ENEMY! President DONALD J. TRUMP"
All because this simple-minded, vile rapist desperately wants to put his worthless fingerprint on everything, and his addled, time-locked imbecile brain decided that he would rename AI. So far I've only seen one pathetic simp so completely busted and worthless they would follow suit, and that's the equally vile and drug-abuse obliterated Elon Musk.
The US has fallen. These companies don't go against outrageously stupid dictums by this terroristic administration because they know there are zero checks and balances, and this vile creep will punish any who counter him.
Astonishing that this guy isn't polling at 0%. Do Americans fully comprehend that this self-dealing clown has destroyed your future?
If only he had read a single book at some point in his lifetime.
Artificial Intelligence is objectively the correct term. He's just using stupid Trumpian word-play for fun. It's so stupid and so sad. At least we won't need to listen to this for thaaaat much longer, at least I hope.
Remember, that half of the population is lower than 100 IQ.
And with LLMs being pushed everywhere, the active deskilling campaign / drug dealer first hit is free plan is working.
With dumb people, the louder and more emotional you are, the more the idiots trust you.
Intelligence and academics are the way out. And look how Republicans attack education and libraries. Their plan is straight forward, and the rubes have no clue. But they still vote for them cause of 'liberal cause of the week'.
I don't disagree with your feelings on 45/47, or your assessment of the quote. I just think in terms of analysis it's really vague, very free-association and fatalistic. I think in this context, if you want to land your hit you should tie it to the substance of the article and make a point about how this changes something. I think "45/47 Bad" and "Elon Bad" are well represented takes (and not even wrong!) but people will tune it out because it feels like a repetition of something they already know, or at least that they've already heard.
I replied to someone asking why multinational corporations aren't pushing back. Many US corporations make most of their revenue outside the US, and you would think these corporations would be more outspoken about the very dark, insular, war-criming path the US has gone down.
My comment directly addressed that. These aren't like incidental character comments, they directly address why the US is so completely broken right now. And this is damage that is permanent. This isn't just another lark that the US will recover from. The days of the US being the centre of the "free world", of commerce, and so on, is obliterated. Inertia is a hell of a thing and it might keep the illusion of maintenance going for a while, but the path is set now and there will be no recovery.
And when this disastrous government is ousted, successive governments are going to be so catastrophically crippled in every dimension that they'll look like failures, which surely will see the enlightened American public vote for the next foolish charlatan, rinse and repeat. I see no way out of this cycle now, and there's no way I can candy coat it.
Your comment was all over the map, culminating in "America has fallen", which is the opposite of being focused and on point, and even now you were able to focus on this point for about a sentence before slipping back into politics monologue mode as if the problem was that more persuading was needed on that front.
Getting more general and zooming out makes your comments less specific to the article or the thread. I don't necessarily disagree with your pessimism but you don't have to needlessly do a favor to people already looking for an excuse to ignore you.
> I don't necessarily disagree with your pessimism
Oh come on. Every one of your comments is basically the "I'm a centrist" Trump voter horseshit, building a narrative for why you are the way you are.
I'm not trying to convince anyone, friend. I also think only absolutely vile, profoundly stupid people could still be on the Trump train. I do not care an iota if you believe this, or if it convinces a single addled, halfwit Trump voter.
Yes, sadly. My discussions with tech people outside the US indicate that the rest of the world is learning to route around the US. The damage is more or less permanent at this point.
Super Intelligence name change is most likely about enrichment - there were reports about sales of .si (slovenia) increased significantly many months ahead of annoucement - most likely insiders.
>US President Donald Trump on Thursday awarded SpaceX CEO Elon Musk and a handful of other tech titans the prestigious National Medal of Science during a ceremony at the Institute of Peace in Washington, D.C.
>Musk received the award alongside Google cofounder Sergey Brin, Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang, and AMD chief Lisa Su
It's almost amusing reading this through the lens of the visa shuttering article from yesterday (which a lot were cheering) because none of the receivers were born in the US.
Is that amusing, or is it cherry-picking to create an imagined hypocrite that is easier to attack? You should decline the temptation to be smug (in general, but especially regarding people who haven't actually done anything hypocritical).
The administration is the thing to criticize here: Not all individual people who agree with some arbitrary other thing the administration did or said.
You should assign rationality to individuals, rather than assigning irrationality to groups, especially on HN. If you can't resist, I would earnestly ask you to vent in this way outside of HN, on the rest of the internet.
I'm not smug, I'm disappointed. I don't think hypocrisy is necessarily irrational but it is self-serving, morally bankrupt and, in this particular instance, self-defeating.
Not in the least, people are highly irrational, I don't know how you can say this with a straight face. Even me, here, if I were rational, I would STFU, who am I helping pointing out the hypocrisy of it all? Nonetheless, I still think it's hypocrisy. And being bothered by it does not make not so.
And not the least, this administration did not appear out of thin air. The US population voted it. I sure view the administration as a mirror (and the responsibility) of the US population.
But I do understand your wider point, and I think you're right, this whole thing is non-prodictive.
Insane these awards are going mostly to executives, Musk getting it for engineering sciences is a slap in the face to anyone that previously received the award.
You know what's funny? I live in a very progressive town. Everyone is pissed at Elon. Everyone drives Teslas. And not old one, clearly tons of them were purchased after he went "bad". Clearly people's principles are contingent on the car sale discounts.
Sold mine after running it a few months covered with stickers saying what I thought of him. Drive another EV now and will not go back. No discount on the car. Stop generalizing.
> Clearly people's principles are contingent on the car sale discounts.
Okay, I'll bite. Do you routinely make your purchase decisions solely on a single factor? Especially big ones, probably second only in size to your home?
It is possible to loathe Elmo but also conclude that given all the various factors driving your decision making, a Tesla ends up being the best fit.
When buying our refrigerator, I didn’t look into how evil the CEO of whirlpool is. It’s quite possible he is as bad or worse. However, at least he has the good sense to be quiet about it.
Yea, for most CEOs, I have no idea what their politics are because they don't wear it on their sleeve and make it part of their company's brand. I can probably guess their politics, but it's not going to affect my purchase decision.
There are a handful of CEOs who just can't seem to keep it to themselves, to the point where they're just begging for people to include those politics in their purchase decisions.
> It is possible to loathe Elmo but also conclude that given all the various factors driving your decision making, a Tesla ends up being the best fit.
Musk is unambiguously an unashamedly a Nazi, and not just for the triviality of his arm gestures. He calls people like my parents traitors for not sticking with their respective races and says people like me should “remigrate” because the west should be white only. He says people like my wife express “hatred against whites” and routinely retweets antisemitic posts. He called his ai system the “mechahitler” and it routinely returns racist responses when asked.
And when people patronize his businesses it amplifies his own wealth, which he then spends to spread his vitriol in multiple countries.
So yes, if you support Nazis financially or otherwise it makes you one too.
For you, out of convenience, nazi supporter and actual nazi (what, performer? activist?) are positions just micrometers apart, if at all. Not everybody considers moral fluidity some sort of virtue to brag about, in contrary
It’s hardly casual, but also hardly complex: if someone is a Nazi in both word and action, that’s pretty clear. It’s duck typing in the real world: the actual origin of the term.
But your defense of racist speech, acts, and the propagation of same sends a clear message too.
I was about to purchase a £6 tool on ebay, but noticed the seller was named truth_com. I decided to buy it from another seller simply because i intensely dislike the noise coming from that direction. Had i not noticed, and completed the sale, would i be a Nazi?
If i drop pennies in a collection box on a shop counter, unwittingly supporting a terrorist organisation, have i blown up schoolchildren?
What if i see the collection box, research the charity, discover that it funds terrorism, correctly decline to contribute, but then fail to immediately kill the shopkeeper and his entire family? Am i supporting terrorism, by suffering a terrorist to contribute his activities?
Develop some fucking nuance. Your direction is fine, but your insistence on your authority as the ultimate arbiter of morality is not. Calling all Tesla owners Nazis is petulant and self-satisfied.
There’s a difference between making a low-cognition effort (buying a toothbrush or holding a door open) and a complex choice like buying a car, typically a household’s largest or second-largest investment. I’m sure you know this too.
But not between buying a car and marching with blackshirts?
I take it Ford drivers are also Nazis? Henry Ford admired Hitler and advocated for eugenics in America. VW and Porsche, obvs.
Or have these marques aged out? When was the cutoff? Beatniks in air-cooled vauvi buses, all nazis? Jared Holt on youtube, fixing his wrecked 356? Did vw stop being a Nazi endeavour on VE day, or do they remain an overt wing of the third reich in the 21st century? Or was the changeover day the 19th of March of 1982?
You're going to hate the Marshall Plan when you learn about it. You're going to hate the Apollo program. Fucking Nazis, landing on the moon, makes me sick.
Are Tesla shareholders nazis? Where's your fucking pension, gumby? You'd better be whiter than the driven snow, you self-satisfied prat.
Where I grew up in the US it was not uncommon for people to intentionally only buy union made vehicles. Not sure how that works out now when things are built and assembled in a dozen factories but it used to be more simple and union workers supported other union workers. (this reads like the rantings of an old boomer, I'm not either I swear)
There are enough EVs on the market these days that people can afford to include more frivolous factors into their decision making. I was in the market for an EV a few years ago. Solely because I dislike Elon and don't wish to support his business, I took teslas off the table after 5 minutes of research to make sure they weren't drastically superior.
It's all quite true. What is surprising though, that the SAME people who are very outspoken in criticizing Musk are driving Teslas. First, they would put some lame stickers to make the whole thing seem like a joke, now they don't even care to do that. It's almost like their self-proclaimed virtue ends where (tiny) financial pain begins.
I do, something about having actual moral values and stances, not some pathetic when-it-suits-me. Can make life sometimes a bit more complex but then I can look myself in the mirror and be content with what I see without some advanced mental gymnastics.
Nazi germany may have been making the best cars of that era, would you still give them money out of convenience? Not that teslas are best electric cars in the world in quite a few aspects, but they have emotional momentum of early starters.
One simply does not have strong moral opinions and then act directly against them at first minor inconvenience.
This generalizes to "Morality means nothing without a price tag.". People have morals right up to the point that it inconveniences them, so those morals mean nothing. But if you persist in having your morals in one piece in light of discomfort or financial penalties then that is proof that those morals were real.
>>Also daily reminder that Jensen Huang and Lisa Su are first cousins once removed. It's a big club, and you ain't in it.
It's almost like culture you are brought in and family values have big influence over what you are able to do in your life.
Neither of them were handed their success. It's a good opportunity to learn what makes them different.
They issued a General License concurrent to the ICC sanctions designation to authorize IT/ICT services, similar to licenses that exist for many sanctioned countries. https://ofac.treasury.gov/media/937191/download?inline
Never heard the idiom "having kittens" before. It sounds very cute, but the origin, the belief of birthing kittens because the mother unknowingly ate cat semen, will stop me from ever using it.
That's citing the pocket trivia book How Did It Begin? Customs, Superstitions and Their Romantic Origins by Rudolph Brasch. As he cites "a superstition, once prevalent among Scottish people" he likely based his claims on Notes on the Folk-Lore of the North-East of Scotland by Rev. Walter Gregor. This reads: "It was a notion that a male cat, when he jumped, emitted urine, and at times semen. Hence great care was used to keep male cats at a distance from food, for another notion was, that, if a cat did chance to jump over food, the one, who was unfortunate enough to partake of it, conceived cats."
This doesn't seem to match the use of the idiom. Meanwhile Greens Dictionary of Slang suggests the meaning is related to the nervousness of pregnant cats. https://greensdictofslang.com/entry/42jrf3i#nizqrgq
I guess so, I now know of a lot of sovereign activities gaining traction (ie the Dutch NixOS based government desktop).
But then again with out politicians being this unwilling to experience some papercuts for freedom [0] I guess they have nothing to worry about. (Although the certainly endured the Teams papercuts until they didn't feel them anymore.) I honestly don't understand why they're crying so hard, I really enjoy Element "ascii shrug".
Ah well, the old saying "Privacy is for Nerds" remains true as always.
Every nation must ban companies operating in their bounds from conforming to unrecognized foreign sanctions. This has been long, long overdue, and the time is absolutely now.
If Visa, Mastercard, Microsoft, or any other company wants to operate in other countries, punitively obeying insane US sanctions is untenable.
Well, high time to break up toe Visa/Mastercard duopoly anyway, for many reasons. Any useless insanity like this just gives more argument to the interested parties wanting to see the breakup finally happen.
So much about the Trump administration is best understood, for everyone looking at it inside and outside the country, as criminals taking over the justice system.
What's probably as criminal, are the other two branches not stamping this out. Most of what everyone is despairing or angry about the administration is forbidden by the US constitution. The problem is that the people most able to uphold the constitution, by expunging the criminals in the executive branch (or preventing them from being there in the first place), are not enforcing it.
A law passed without the representation of the people it is being enforced upon is no law at all. That is a founding principal of the United States. The ICC is not a representative organization and it cannot be. Therefore it has no right to enforce laws against the US or American people.
It's a rogue court in that it's not derived from the will of the people. In democracy, the people are sovereign and have a say in what their laws are. American[1] citizens don't have a say in what international laws are, they can't invalidate them, so why should they be subject to them?
This is akin to the Nuremberg trials, where Germans were tried by foreigners, without the consent of German citizens... The major difference is, the Germans lost the war so Americans got to impose their will on the vanquished. America did not lose a war to India, so why should Americans be judged by this Indian?
[1]: I'm not American, but like the US, I also wish my country was only subject to the laws of my people.
Because the US could literally destroy the ICC without any repercussions aside from some reflexive gasps from European globalists.
If I were POTUS and this happened, the ICC would look like a smoldering crater just to remind the elites what real power is. Oh, and the thing is, there's nothing Europe can do about it. Europe's economically between a rock and hard place, with no serious military to defend themselves. They've also decided to import foreigners with no allegiance to Europe instead of grow their native population. This means they can't form a defensive military without a very high risk of those soldiers turning their guns on the government.
Well, many of us had hoped USA wasn't the epitomy of evil that you declare yourself to be.
Yes, killing 1000+ people in a peaceful, country you say your allied to, for no reason beyond being angry that your abject sin has been noticed and people are saying you're morally bad, when you revel in that lack of morality...
The way the US would leave a crater where the ICC was would not be militarily.
Go ahead, indict Trump. Trump, being the provocateur that he is, would travel to the Hague, or wherever else, and he would not be arrested. The ICC would do nothing and exposes its toothlessness as a performative political tool of center left Europe.
It would be a farce to try, of course. The American Service-Members' Protection Act gives the president power to use "all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any U.S. or allied personnel being detained or imprisoned by, on behalf of, or at the request of the International Criminal Court."
The ICC doesn't have jurisdiction in states that haven't signed up to the Rome Statute, and the US has not signed up. As President, Trump is protected under the Vienna Convention when he travels abroad so he can't be arrested even in other countries.
Can anyone with a level political head unwrap this?
Yes I know Trump is a deranged psychopath who fires from the hip. I'm looking for someone who can handle the challenge of steel manning the move. The political swamp has gotten so dense I feel like I am suffocating.
I don't think it should be controversial.
US doesn't recognize ICC. There is possibility that ICC goes after Americans or American allies. This is organized work against American interests -> sanctions.
I don't see what Americans lose because of those sanctions but I see what they gain. I am surprised it took them so long to make tbh.
They understand just fine, they just don't care. Those young enough to live to see the long-term effects of their policies will be rich enough through the blatant corruption of the current administration to be essentially free from all serious impact.
Realistically, Americans aren't pulling out guillotines for the excessively rich any time soon, so why would they care?
Let's hope "slowly, then suddenly" here. But also slightly less literally. But also literally enough that those who "dont' get it" start to catch on...
I worry about those who can't. There's some serious anti-US psyops originating from Russia and China at the moment and it seems the Left (including a lot of Europeans) are lapping it up gleefully.
China - authoritarian communist dictatorship, killing its own protesting students, concentration camps imprisoning Muslims, organised re-education of its own population, every company an arm of the intelligence agencies (by law), social credit system, biological weapons production (Wuhan), institutionalised IP theft from other countries
Russia - the most corrupt major dictatorship in Europe, military invasions of its peaceful neighbours, hybrid warfare against European countries, nerve agent assassination of political rivals both within and outside Russia. Indiscriminate killing of civilians in Ukraine with no remorse.
US - a constitutional democracy that has alternated leadership in the last decade in the same familiar way it always has. Attacked Iranian regime assets because Iran threatened it with nuclear weapons and fired hundreds of ballistic missiles at US ally Israel (a pluralist democracy that should be defended IMO). Widespread support for the US intervention from ordinary Iranians who has been oppressed by their Islamist dictator for decades; Removed a ruthless dictator in Venezuela due to massive human rights abuses and state narco trafficking, widespread US support from ordinary Venezuelans who have been oppressed by their dictator.
I don’t see all of the US actions as favorably as that description, I think a lot of recent actions are especially egregious and the US has a history of doing pretty terrible things.
But the scale really is completely different. I think the US is still overall good, and we do still have real elections, limits on government power, and genuine turnover in government where power can shift.
And even as the US govt is trying to scare people away from protesting and they’re building a corporate-government surveillance state, personal freedoms are still very high compared to China and Russia.
The USA has been dropping bombs on innocent people for 26 years. Not the case with China and Russia.
The US' phony "War on Terror" (a racist war) has killed millions and produced tens of millions of refugees. It has kidnapped sovereign leaders and demolish sovereign states, it has funded terror groups and armed them, it has literally provided the weapons for a genocide.
What the hell? Just this week Russia has killed tens of civilians by bombing apartment buildings and passenger buses, for no reason, just because they can.
I’m not excusing Russia - it has a long, long way to go to catch up with the magnitude of the crimes of the USA, but it will only face justice once the US has done so. The USA sure isn’t in any position to bring real justice to the world.
For 26 years the US and its minions have been fighting the racist war on terror and tens of millions of human beings have suffered for it.
Russia has a long, long way to go when it comes to catching up with the criminal behaviors of we in the West - which is to say, of course Russias wars are criminal too - but ours are far more heinous, by a far greater order of magnitude and indeed only provide cover for lesser states such as Russia to behave exactly the same way.
After all, we have been getting away with bombing apartment buildings, passenger buses, and indeed far too many other objects to describe, also .. ‘for no reason’ .. but at far, far greater orders of magnitude.
Those fools, what a wasted opportunity! Picture this: the prisoner is methodically prepared for execution, meanwhile sprinkle a few interviews with victims, friends, etc... Seconds before the moment of execution BAM! hydration pause and five minutes of ads.
As someone born in raised in Russia now living in the US as a naturalized citizen I still see a lot of difference, but not going to lie, it's shrinking quite a bit faster than I'm comfortable with.
Reminder that the US is responsible for the precision strike murder of at least 120 school children[1]. Are they still 'investigating'? No one went to prison, right?
Recently, Marco Rubio gave a speech in front of the Acropolis in Athens, Greece. Seeing this, I immediately thought "what an oximoron".
Although I need to preface this by saying that the Trump administration is one of the stupidest and pettiest in history, the Nobel peace price lost all credibility after it was awarded to Barack Obama for no reason. It seems to be a mechanism for trumpeting the political views of those on the committee.
Trump is upset about not getting the peace price Obama got, and the latest winner of the peace price was an ICC judge.
He was already upset about the ICC existing after the ICC tried to hold Israel accountable for its war crimes, but the timing makes it obvious that is just the president of the United States of America is being petty here.
Bush nomination? You know there are hundreds of people that can nominate whoever they want? A nomination means nothing, they aren't coming from the Nobel committee.
We have a proxy war with Russia and need US oil/gas. There is zero strength or political will to oppose US now, EU strategy seems to be just wait it out.
That would not be the smart thing to do. Sanctions would hurt EU economy more.
There are a lot better responses: reduce copyright length, to let's say... 50 years? Make everything after 1976 public domain. EU economy could even get a boost from that.
Or, if EU wanted to keep this limited to justice, denounce extradition treaties for all but most serious crimes (expecially not allowing any future Assange to be extradited), repeal laws that forbid bypassing DRM protections and reverse engineering.
353 comments
[ 1.8 ms ] story [ 73.9 ms ] threadJunk away snowflakes....
Can't think of a more flagrant and succinct declaration that the US believes itself "above the law."
> Can't think of a more flagrant and succinct declaration that the US believes itself "above the law."
So would you think of yourself "above the law" if you refused to submit to my law?
Apparently the US never ratified the ICC treaty. International relations is literally an anarchy, there's no "higher authority" to impose law. Countries can only voluntarily submit to a treaty, or be violently coerced by another country.
The US has very large problems far beyond one or two politicians.
Trump has been in office for 6 years. Because 2/3 of America either voted him in or didn't bother showing up. I've been reading people say "he's unpopular" for a decade. But America voted him in again, this time with more power than he's ever had before.
There is no way to decouple his legacy from America anymore. You would have to have a blowout midterm with a Senate supermajority that can roll back everything he's done.
In general any idea that international law is relevant except as a tool for the West to provide moral justification for its actions when it's convenient to do so is naive. At least the Trump administration being much more vulgar and crude in expressing its disregard for international law compared to previous administrations may open more people's eyes.
I don't think you understand the concept of "sovereignty"
The funny part is that Apple did exactly the same. Everybody did exactly the same in a "pay per access" endless chain of CEOS. but for some reason nobody has mocked them for that. Only South Park, that never miss one.
Is true that the FIFA excuse was particularly imbecile.
... but his government does support the ICC prosecuting Russians, on behalf of Ukraine, even though none of the two states is a party to the Rome statute / member of the court.
Algeria, Angola, Bahamas, Bahrain, Cameroon, Egypt, Eritrea, Guinea-Bissau, Haiti, Iran, Israel, Jamaica, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Monaco, Morocco, Mozambique, Oman, Russia, São Tomé and Príncipe, Solomon Islands, Sudan, Syria, Thailand, United Arab Emirates, United States, Uzbekistan, Yemen, Zimbabwe.
Not signed: China, North Korea, India.
Burundi and The Philippines withdrew from the treaty.
https://x.com/SecRubio/status/2108565647667904647
I guess what he is saying is that work of International Criminal Court is a threat to US sovereignty ? Can someone make that make sense?
That is the 'International rules-based order' as opposed to the U.N. international law order.
?? Not sure. Can you provide examples of condemning for war crimes those and other regimes in the current times? I may be wrong, but I am getting the vibe of "free for all until somebody bigger shouts that's enough" - more clearly, I am not seeing ethical stances defended.
Honest question, what makes you think the US, China, or Russia need to abide by legal agreements made 80 years ago by people who aren't around anymore? Those three countries have since agreed amongst themselves that the 'international rules-based order' was a mistake, and nobody else has a big enough stick to do anything about it.
The 'international rules-based order' is used today by the U.S. to imply to a naive reader that they mean international law as defined by the UN, whereas in fact they mean the world order where they're the world police, which essentially started after WWII and really kicked into another gear in the 90s when the U.S became the undisputed dominant power.
The phrase today is used merely as a ploy to suggest the U.S. is not acting alone/without UN approval in cases it in fact does precisely that.
> Honest question, what makes you think the US, China, or Russia need to abide by legal agreements made 80 years ago by people who aren't around anymore?
I dunno. I would like things like the Geneva Conventions to outlive their original authors, thank you very much.
As an aside, I don't think China's foreign policy can be casually compared to that of the U.S.
One can be blamed on fog of war, the other is straight up murder, and all involved need to be prosecuted as such.
https://www.npwj.org/press-release/an-assault-on-sovereign-r...
Little hypocrite.
How do you call a country where public press is so much owned or subsidized by the govt that other press can't survive, where press has guidelines of things to say, where voting happens without the ability for voters to check their vote was counted (witnesses were removed from witnessing the vote counting in France, when it's not total electronic), where they import voters to sway elections, and where the FISC publishes lists of people with a house and account numbers and amoints so hostage takers can target the right house and ask the right thing? Where police or train conductors take no action against fraudsters unless they are white, preferrably grandmas? SNCF has always been the most participant to exactions, they're breaking no tradition here.
What's holding me in Europe is clearly not democracy. Candidate for US or AU visa here, I'm rich but AU has closed the wealth-based visa.
Define healthy. You mean like the EU that constantly tries to install a surveillance state by backdooring cryptography and requiring age verification while killing off small businesses and internet forums with regulation? Or UK where you get sacked for social media posts? Or Germany where saying something mean about the ruling class gets you a knock at the door at 6am in the morning? The country that tries to ban their biggest political party? [...]
> who value science
Are you so sure about that? I was curious, so I took the Nature Index[0] and checked which countries support the ICC[1], then calculated share of contributions for both groups:
(US and China, the two top of the list are 63% alone.)Some people on here really have a hard time accepting simple facts and the fact that my stating of a simple fact led to downvotes/flag is a testament to that.
0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of...
1. https://asp.icc-cpi.int/states-parties
i think it's funny that you tried to cast doubt but couldn't even do that because you lead with the glaring flaw in your reasoning instead of your rhetorical point. congrats.
the current version of the US was orchestrated deliberately by our wealthiest elites (eg Koch, Murdoch, etc) - the pleebs were becoming too powerful and now they're over-correcting
Some US states seem to spend more per pupil than excellent independent ("private") schools in the UK. That is a lot of money.
teacher pay-rate and total comp are better indicators of defunding and they are dismal: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d21/tables/dt21_211.60.a... - this shows pay rates have stagnated since the 70s and some have even dropped relative to the inflation of the past 50 years
even then the rising costs don't reflect an increase in percent-of-GDP spending - that's actually gone down in the past decade: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d22/tables/dt22_106.10.a...
> the per-pupil number is a deliberate red herring. spending increases only cover increasingly expensive private contracts, expensive middle-managers who often contribute little of value in terms of actually educating pupils, and liabilities
Is that not just a more detailed explanation of what the comment said? jayglow said
> you can argue that the funds aren't well allocated
You have explained how they have been badly allocated. Its a general pattern in the western world's government expenditure on many things.
The Americans who saw this coming and stayed home are just as complicit.
Also, anyone who voted 3rd-party, because that is literally refusing to keep him out of office.
prefrontal cortex moment
The way you talk about things could have easily resulted in California’s 54 electoral college votes flipping to the majority resulting in 366 electoral votes for the winner. Your numbers are spread across where people actually live after all, as opposed to a campaign swing state
Nobody cares about Americans having prosperity and happiness when their nation has been dropping bombs on innocent human beings every 15 minutes on average, for the past 26 years.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_1933_German_federal_elec...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h242eDB84zY&pp=ygUSYXJlIHdlIHR...
Here's the second news thing mentioned for people that also did go "what??" but do not want to spend 5 extra seconds to Google like me.
https://www.uscp.gov/media-center/press-releases/uscp-arrest...
I could imagine something _like_ that happen, but it would be a different kind of spectacle, where it is ensured that it projects ideas that _stabilize_ the current structure.
__
Hmm.. although, if they have a good propaganda guy, they might actually do the Guillotine and annex that symbol as an ultimate power move.
I can see that working out and doing double duty.
Have some robot surgeon give people neuralink implants that humiliate them in some way. Maybe give the twitch chat some interactivity.
Punch yourself in the face, convict. Do a backflip and fail doing so. Make the guy say things he despises.
There's so much fuel in the cyberpunk dystopia tank.
Perhaps the government could hold a lottery for a spot on the firing squad. I’m sure there are plenty of loyal patriots that would be willing to pay* the $500 entry fee. The patriotic non-fake news media could do a human* interest story on the lucky winner, with before and after interviews and maybe a photo-op with SecWar.
* payments to be made in Trump coin.
* for some definition of “human”
/s
America is run by extremist Christians so eventually it will be death by drowning, stoning or whatever else the Bible recommends.
Despite what these "christians" do their book has a few good ideas. Wonder if they've read it.
sadly it no longer feels absurd
In Serbia, people protested for two years straight, giant protests, marches all over the country, until the government resigned and new elections were called.
Check out a video here: https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1jc29fk/breathtakin...
Be more like Serbia. Change doesn't just happen every four years at the ballot box. Politics is always and everywhere.
We already reelect the entire Congress every two years, we don't have to do this.
Moreover, we also have set record protests in recent years larger than the ones you cite. Hands Off protest was a million+. No Kings I, II, and III was like 20 million people across those protests.
Furthermore, we did do something about it and we got rid of all these people once already. The problem is about half the country wants this to happen, so they were invited back to do more.
2. the shooter deserves it
What are planning next, after your comrade, Hamam al-Hammami, failed to execute his plot of a 9/11-style suicide attack on Ben Gurion Airport?
"The White House considers anyone that uses the term, “Artificial Intelligence,” as opposed to the highly accepted new and more accurate term, “Super Intelligence,” THE ENEMY! President DONALD J. TRUMP"
All because this simple-minded, vile rapist desperately wants to put his worthless fingerprint on everything, and his addled, time-locked imbecile brain decided that he would rename AI. So far I've only seen one pathetic simp so completely busted and worthless they would follow suit, and that's the equally vile and drug-abuse obliterated Elon Musk.
The US has fallen. These companies don't go against outrageously stupid dictums by this terroristic administration because they know there are zero checks and balances, and this vile creep will punish any who counter him.
Astonishing that this guy isn't polling at 0%. Do Americans fully comprehend that this self-dealing clown has destroyed your future?
https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/approval/donald-trump...
(Posted on the same day one of my coworkers received a $500 check and nastygram about the unusually bipartisan Afoordable Healthcare Act.)
Artificial Intelligence is objectively the correct term. He's just using stupid Trumpian word-play for fun. It's so stupid and so sad. At least we won't need to listen to this for thaaaat much longer, at least I hope.
And with LLMs being pushed everywhere, the active deskilling campaign / drug dealer first hit is free plan is working.
With dumb people, the louder and more emotional you are, the more the idiots trust you.
Intelligence and academics are the way out. And look how Republicans attack education and libraries. Their plan is straight forward, and the rubes have no clue. But they still vote for them cause of 'liberal cause of the week'.
My comment directly addressed that. These aren't like incidental character comments, they directly address why the US is so completely broken right now. And this is damage that is permanent. This isn't just another lark that the US will recover from. The days of the US being the centre of the "free world", of commerce, and so on, is obliterated. Inertia is a hell of a thing and it might keep the illusion of maintenance going for a while, but the path is set now and there will be no recovery.
And when this disastrous government is ousted, successive governments are going to be so catastrophically crippled in every dimension that they'll look like failures, which surely will see the enlightened American public vote for the next foolish charlatan, rinse and repeat. I see no way out of this cycle now, and there's no way I can candy coat it.
Getting more general and zooming out makes your comments less specific to the article or the thread. I don't necessarily disagree with your pessimism but you don't have to needlessly do a favor to people already looking for an excuse to ignore you.
Oh come on. Every one of your comments is basically the "I'm a centrist" Trump voter horseshit, building a narrative for why you are the way you are.
I'm not trying to convince anyone, friend. I also think only absolutely vile, profoundly stupid people could still be on the Trump train. I do not care an iota if you believe this, or if it convinces a single addled, halfwit Trump voter.
Well, he has, just maybe not in the way he may be hoping (i.e., being positively remembered).
the Trump era is an interesting lesson in psychology
>US President Donald Trump on Thursday awarded SpaceX CEO Elon Musk and a handful of other tech titans the prestigious National Medal of Science during a ceremony at the Institute of Peace in Washington, D.C.
>Musk received the award alongside Google cofounder Sergey Brin, Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang, and AMD chief Lisa Su
https://www.euronews.com/2026/10/09/modern-day-thomas-edison...
Also daily reminder that Jensen Huang and Lisa Su are first cousins once removed. It's a big club, and you ain't in it.
The administration is the thing to criticize here: Not all individual people who agree with some arbitrary other thing the administration did or said.
You should assign rationality to individuals, rather than assigning irrationality to groups, especially on HN. If you can't resist, I would earnestly ask you to vent in this way outside of HN, on the rest of the internet.
Not in the least, people are highly irrational, I don't know how you can say this with a straight face. Even me, here, if I were rational, I would STFU, who am I helping pointing out the hypocrisy of it all? Nonetheless, I still think it's hypocrisy. And being bothered by it does not make not so.
And not the least, this administration did not appear out of thin air. The US population voted it. I sure view the administration as a mirror (and the responsibility) of the US population.
But I do understand your wider point, and I think you're right, this whole thing is non-prodictive.
Okay, I'll bite. Do you routinely make your purchase decisions solely on a single factor? Especially big ones, probably second only in size to your home?
It is possible to loathe Elmo but also conclude that given all the various factors driving your decision making, a Tesla ends up being the best fit.
For sure, I think a good CEO stays the hell out of politics altogether, because it will never recruit more customers, it can only alienate.
There are a handful of CEOs who just can't seem to keep it to themselves, to the point where they're just begging for people to include those politics in their purchase decisions.
Musk is unambiguously an unashamedly a Nazi, and not just for the triviality of his arm gestures. He calls people like my parents traitors for not sticking with their respective races and says people like me should “remigrate” because the west should be white only. He says people like my wife express “hatred against whites” and routinely retweets antisemitic posts. He called his ai system the “mechahitler” and it routinely returns racist responses when asked.
And when people patronize his businesses it amplifies his own wealth, which he then spends to spread his vitriol in multiple countries.
So yes, if you support Nazis financially or otherwise it makes you one too.
Wow.
You somehow managed not to know the extent of his racism and cruelty?
Or you don’t think that anyone who provides material support to Nazis/Communists/Hamas/the IDF/MAGA is is basically one of them?
Or?
That's a conversation-ending statement. And so it is.
But your defense of racist speech, acts, and the propagation of same sends a clear message too.
I was about to purchase a £6 tool on ebay, but noticed the seller was named truth_com. I decided to buy it from another seller simply because i intensely dislike the noise coming from that direction. Had i not noticed, and completed the sale, would i be a Nazi?
If i drop pennies in a collection box on a shop counter, unwittingly supporting a terrorist organisation, have i blown up schoolchildren?
What if i see the collection box, research the charity, discover that it funds terrorism, correctly decline to contribute, but then fail to immediately kill the shopkeeper and his entire family? Am i supporting terrorism, by suffering a terrorist to contribute his activities?
Develop some fucking nuance. Your direction is fine, but your insistence on your authority as the ultimate arbiter of morality is not. Calling all Tesla owners Nazis is petulant and self-satisfied.
I take it Ford drivers are also Nazis? Henry Ford admired Hitler and advocated for eugenics in America. VW and Porsche, obvs.
Or have these marques aged out? When was the cutoff? Beatniks in air-cooled vauvi buses, all nazis? Jared Holt on youtube, fixing his wrecked 356? Did vw stop being a Nazi endeavour on VE day, or do they remain an overt wing of the third reich in the 21st century? Or was the changeover day the 19th of March of 1982?
You're going to hate the Marshall Plan when you learn about it. You're going to hate the Apollo program. Fucking Nazis, landing on the moon, makes me sick.
Are Tesla shareholders nazis? Where's your fucking pension, gumby? You'd better be whiter than the driven snow, you self-satisfied prat.
Nazi germany may have been making the best cars of that era, would you still give them money out of convenience? Not that teslas are best electric cars in the world in quite a few aspects, but they have emotional momentum of early starters.
One simply does not have strong moral opinions and then act directly against them at first minor inconvenience.
Isn't this basically how WWI started?
It's almost like culture you are brought in and family values have big influence over what you are able to do in your life. Neither of them were handed their success. It's a good opportunity to learn what makes them different.
Same as before. Only if you're insane.
Current administration expects ICC to change
Future administration can reverse sanctions since its just the stroke of a pen, economic sanctions don’t require Congress
The US is untrustworthy, and governments are at the mercy of ridiculous hostile actions that even if shortlived may cause a lot of damage and losses.
Countries should speed up untangling themselves from the US. Be it by creating alternatives to Swift, effectively stop relying on US big tech, etc.
The US is a hostile power and its corporations are venues for it to cause harm.
I dont see why they should react
You are commenting about something else
Torvalds lives in the USA. Linux Foundation is in the USA. Good (luck) for Linux. /s
https://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/3/messages/139.htm...
This doesn't seem to match the use of the idiom. Meanwhile Greens Dictionary of Slang suggests the meaning is related to the nervousness of pregnant cats. https://greensdictofslang.com/entry/42jrf3i#nizqrgq
But then again with out politicians being this unwilling to experience some papercuts for freedom [0] I guess they have nothing to worry about. (Although the certainly endured the Teams papercuts until they didn't feel them anymore.) I honestly don't understand why they're crying so hard, I really enjoy Element "ascii shrug".
Ah well, the old saying "Privacy is for Nerds" remains true as always.
[0] https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-microsoft-teams-alternati...
If Visa, Mastercard, Microsoft, or any other company wants to operate in other countries, punitively obeying insane US sanctions is untenable.
Of course, from the perspective of a committed criminal, upholding the law is "going rogue".
What's probably as criminal, are the other two branches not stamping this out. Most of what everyone is despairing or angry about the administration is forbidden by the US constitution. The problem is that the people most able to uphold the constitution, by expunging the criminals in the executive branch (or preventing them from being there in the first place), are not enforcing it.
That is not lack of sovereignty, that is choice of morality.
Democracies can only enact the chosen rule of law because they're sovereign.
This is akin to the Nuremberg trials, where Germans were tried by foreigners, without the consent of German citizens... The major difference is, the Germans lost the war so Americans got to impose their will on the vanquished. America did not lose a war to India, so why should Americans be judged by this Indian?
[1]: I'm not American, but like the US, I also wish my country was only subject to the laws of my people.
Where are the ICC cases against Saudi? Syria? Yemen? Egypt? Most of Africa? North Korea? Haiti? Nicaragua? India? Iran?
It's a kangaroo court that gives retired judges jobs and powerless liberals the illusion they're doing something.
> Article 70. Offences against the administration of Justice
> 1. The Court shall have jurisdiction over the following offences against its administration of justice when committed intentionally:
> (e) Retaliating against an official of the court on account of duties performed by that or another official;
Can the ICC now please just put an arrest warrant out for Trump, Rubio, and anyone else involved in these sanctions.
If I were POTUS and this happened, the ICC would look like a smoldering crater just to remind the elites what real power is. Oh, and the thing is, there's nothing Europe can do about it. Europe's economically between a rock and hard place, with no serious military to defend themselves. They've also decided to import foreigners with no allegiance to Europe instead of grow their native population. This means they can't form a defensive military without a very high risk of those soldiers turning their guns on the government.
Yes, killing 1000+ people in a peaceful, country you say your allied to, for no reason beyond being angry that your abject sin has been noticed and people are saying you're morally bad, when you revel in that lack of morality...
Go ahead, indict Trump. Trump, being the provocateur that he is, would travel to the Hague, or wherever else, and he would not be arrested. The ICC would do nothing and exposes its toothlessness as a performative political tool of center left Europe.
Never know til you try.
of course it would not have this effect
on paper: yes
but do you think for example germany would really arrest the american president?
or even arrest trump after his term?
Yes I know Trump is a deranged psychopath who fires from the hip. I'm looking for someone who can handle the challenge of steel manning the move. The political swamp has gotten so dense I feel like I am suffocating.
I don't see what Americans lose because of those sanctions but I see what they gain. I am surprised it took them so long to make tbh.
Realistically, Americans aren't pulling out guillotines for the excessively rich any time soon, so why would they care?
Russia - the most corrupt major dictatorship in Europe, military invasions of its peaceful neighbours, hybrid warfare against European countries, nerve agent assassination of political rivals both within and outside Russia. Indiscriminate killing of civilians in Ukraine with no remorse.
US - a constitutional democracy that has alternated leadership in the last decade in the same familiar way it always has. Attacked Iranian regime assets because Iran threatened it with nuclear weapons and fired hundreds of ballistic missiles at US ally Israel (a pluralist democracy that should be defended IMO). Widespread support for the US intervention from ordinary Iranians who has been oppressed by their Islamist dictator for decades; Removed a ruthless dictator in Venezuela due to massive human rights abuses and state narco trafficking, widespread US support from ordinary Venezuelans who have been oppressed by their dictator.
But the scale really is completely different. I think the US is still overall good, and we do still have real elections, limits on government power, and genuine turnover in government where power can shift.
And even as the US govt is trying to scare people away from protesting and they’re building a corporate-government surveillance state, personal freedoms are still very high compared to China and Russia.
The US' phony "War on Terror" (a racist war) has killed millions and produced tens of millions of refugees. It has kidnapped sovereign leaders and demolish sovereign states, it has funded terror groups and armed them, it has literally provided the weapons for a genocide.
You're whitewashing.
Russia has a long, long way to go when it comes to catching up with the criminal behaviors of we in the West - which is to say, of course Russias wars are criminal too - but ours are far more heinous, by a far greater order of magnitude and indeed only provide cover for lesser states such as Russia to behave exactly the same way.
After all, we have been getting away with bombing apartment buildings, passenger buses, and indeed far too many other objects to describe, also .. ‘for no reason’ .. but at far, far greater orders of magnitude.
Maybe it's more simple. Maybe Trump is precisely the erratic, narcissistic, authoritarian dictator wannabe he appears to be.
America is responsible for its own reputation, and at the moment America appears to be intent on trashing it.
Recently, Marco Rubio gave a speech in front of the Acropolis in Athens, Greece. Seeing this, I immediately thought "what an oximoron".
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_Minab_school_airstrike
He was already upset about the ICC existing after the ICC tried to hold Israel accountable for its war crimes, but the timing makes it obvious that is just the president of the United States of America is being petty here.
There are a lot better responses: reduce copyright length, to let's say... 50 years? Make everything after 1976 public domain. EU economy could even get a boost from that.
Or, if EU wanted to keep this limited to justice, denounce extradition treaties for all but most serious crimes (expecially not allowing any future Assange to be extradited), repeal laws that forbid bypassing DRM protections and reverse engineering.