there's no threat model for this (mass-media image authenticity verification) that attestation solves. i mean, i know people will say that there is, but they're all wrong haha.
Yeah, there are plenty of modern cameras that don't have it, but it would still be nice for Sigma to join the other camera manufacturers that are supporting C2PA.
C2PA would use signing, but even having signing at all would be useful. Sony signs with a Sony key, and that goes into c2pa. Having a public or uploadable key would be nice
I wonder if we can create a small device that sits on the camera hot shoe with a crappy camera that takes a “verified photo” every time you press the shutter button. You use the main camera photo primarily but if anyone cares to verify you can look at the embedded verified version to see it’s largely the same.
Same. Mobile phones have excellent image processing, displays, and interfaces, but small optics and sensors. Dedicated cameras have big optics and sensors, but bad/limited image processing, displays, and interfaces.
The market is just not demanding it. People buying these full frame cameras opt to shoot in raw and have a desktop program with significantly more compute and control after the fact do the processing.
Whatever denoising algorithm they put on the camera, your laptop will do it better. Stripping back the processing means you can take photos at 60fps with minimal battery drain.
This camera was great. I could take pictures and upload them directly to Picassa without screwing around with SD cards. The camera UI was also a step up from the regular morass of menus, all alike.
It’s just another point of planed obsolescence. Your Android camera with direct to Facebook upload will stop getting updated in a few years and be useless junk. Meanwhile 2008 digital cameras work just as well as they did back then.
Handheld cameras aren’t meant to be interacted with a lot. The interface is supposed to get out of the way and get photos to the SD card as fast and predictably as possible.
Sony camera firmware is Android based, but without the Android UI.
Some of the camera makers have added apps and app stores and they haven’t been popular.
Most users don’t want their dedicated camera to be a full Android phone. The specs of the CPU don’t matter as long as it shoots fast enough and does what you need when you press the button.
The touchscreens are a common point of complaint as they are. Many photographers want physical controls and a viewfinder. The screen is only there to review photos quickly.
I also want to upload to Google Photos automatically. And have the ability to share to Facebook Messenger, post to Facebook Wall, live stream to Instagram or Youtube or whatever... It adds up, pretty quickly.
> Handheld cameras aren’t meant to be interacted with a lot. The interface is supposed to get out of the way and get photos to the SD card as fast and predictably as possible.
Yeah, sure. If you want a great shot in low-light conditions, you often need to tweak the color balance and exposure.
My usual test is taking a picture of the full moon. Most cameras on automatic settings result in a white blob.
I also frequently want to review a couple of previous photos to see if I messed up anything.
> Some of the camera makers have added apps and app stores and they haven’t been popular.
Camera app stores were never popular because the SDKs for cameras were obscure and buggy.
> Yeah, sure. If you want a great shot in low-light conditions, you often need to tweak the color balance and exposure.
Exactly. That's the type of interaction they need to support, not all of the Facebook Messenger and other app interactions the parent commenter is looking for.
Those functions are also the ones most frequently requested to appear on physical controls.
I’m really keen for the future of modded firmwares on cameras. One feature I’d love to have is starting an SMB or ftp server on the camera so I can just copy files over the network rather than having to move sd cards or plug anything in.
There are none because it's a stupid idea. The last thing I need in a digital camera is apps, ads and google uploading my every snap to cloud for analysis.
Cameras also need to be fast and reliable which is not something that describes Android well.
I looked into buying a compact full-frame camera a couple years ago (the Sony a7c2), and came to the conclusion that the size and weight of lenses matters more than the camera body. So personally I don’t really see the point of making a camera body this small if you have to sacrifice on things like IBIS, an EVF, physical controls, and heat dissipation/recording limits.
Are there any particular use cases where a camera this small really offers a significant benefit? Perhaps street photography when paired with certain compact lenses?
In the PetaPixel review they found that the camera overheated after 33 minutes when recording 4k60p. So 6k60p would be probably overheat even faster than that. Maybe not an issue depending on what you're trying to shoot, but seems like the sort of thing that could be frustrating or even completely ruin your day.
I combine the a7cII with various small primes (Sony 24mm f2.8, Sony 40mm f2.5, Sigma 90mm f2.8, Voigtlander 35mm f1.4) and I have a very capable camera that fits in a tiny bag. It's great for street and travel.
Then when I need to I can attach the same body to a big lens (Tamron 28-200, Sigma 100-400) and slap on a Smallrig grip to counteract the lens weight. It's great for protests and birding.
IMO the benefit is that one can purchase a single body and do big camera and small camera things with it.
With regards to the size and weight of lenses, Sigma also announced the most compact autofocus 50mm f/1.4 lens ever along with the FP-2, which is even smaller than their 50mm f/2 lens. It's really nice when you can just toss a full frame camera with a 50mm f/1.4 into your pocket. Of course, the autofocus is slower and there is no IBIS or EVF. But when it comes to the pareto frontier of small size versus full frame image quality, this is it.
And it looks like there are some interesting ultra compact (and affordable) autofocus lenses from Chinese makers available now compared to when I last looked.
Having more compact full frame lenses on offer is an exciting development IMO. Although none of them are stabilized, which makes the lack of IBIS on the FP2 a bit more painful.
> Sigma developed a powerful autofocus actuator in which coils and magnets, as used in the HLA (High-response Linear Actuator), are arranged in a circle to match the shape of the lens barrel
"We had the genius idea of taking a linear actuator and wrapping it into a circle... let's call it a 'normal motor'!"
Yeah I'm really excited to try this lens - sounds like it'll be optically similar to some film-era 1.4 lenses and they have lots of character. I have a Minolta 50mm f/1.4 I use all the time because it just has a look that I can't get from modern perfect glass.
The Fp L was great for landscapes because it was so ridiculously tiny for a 61MP camera that you could just chuck it in a waist bag instead of a backpack.
For the lower-resolution versions, they're very popular with video people from my understanding. The Fp was in particular popular with directors for test shots and framing, and they've leaned into that use-case with this new one I believe.
I came to basically the same conclusion when I purchased some years back. It seemed to me then that even in the ostensibly smaller mount formats, all the manufacturers were chasing larger bodies and lenses, and reserving all the upscale features in those. I think trends have recently convinced manufacturers that compact bodies are "cool", but I'm still waiting for more compact lens options. I ended up just making due with a large body and carefully managing how I travel with lenses.
I had some interest in the first Sigma FP, but my impression is that it was getting used mostly in highly modular video setups, not so much to save space.
I like this concept of a minimal core camera which has a huge sensor, the logic board, a battery compartment, and then mounting points for accessories to customize it to the use case.
Lack of in body image stabilization is difficult, though. It makes sense for a minimum size camera but IBIS is amazing when it’s working well.
Ever looked into digital backs? Basically what you are describing. Sometimes minus battery - the (old) mega vision backs are just a sensor, FPGA, and firewire cable out to a host!
“But there are — to be honest, the project has been a little bit delayed… because every time we run the wafer and get the prototype sensor, we found some technical issues because we have never designed a sensor by ourselves."
Foveon while a good idea, is extremely complicated to get right from what I understand.
I imagine that different silicon fabs or even different runs of the same fab have slightly different absorption on each focal plan in the sensor and calibrating that at high quality is tricky? Can you even do BSI? I have no idea
I have an older camera with GPS, it takes many minutes after turning on to acquire a gps fix, usually I’ve taken my photo and turned it off again long before it’s found a gps fix. It also drains the battery.
Meanwhile my Sony camera acquires a location from my phone instantly. That’s why gps has been removed, it’s so much better to acquire location from your phone which always has a fix.
I also self host Dawarich which has a log of my location and can plug in to Immich to fill in location metadata for any photos which are missing it.
It requires installing a crapp that never works well, and enabling it to get the position in the background.
I made a physical GPS logger a while ago with AGPS support (over BT), and it's now trivial to do. There's also the most trivial thing possible: after you take a photo, start getting a fix, and update the GPS position on the photo once the fix is acquired.
Geotagging. I want to know the exact locations of pictures that I took during my travels. I also usually don't copy photos immediately.
Sure, I have workarounds. When taking pictures with my camera, I also typically take a picture with my phone to get a fix. Then I can copy-paste the location in Immich.
Oh, and another thing that GPS buys: automatic timezones. I always keep forgetting to set the time and date on my camera.
How do people who are far sighted use cameras without EVF ? When I have to hold a camera 20 cm in front of me to film I just pretend I'm able to focus on the LCD.
I think many viewfinders have a mechanism that can adjust the magnification of the viewfinder regardless of whether it’s electronic or not because it’s an optical adjustment. Old film SLRs even have this.
I have used contact lenses in the past (though I didn't really like them for everyday use so I just wear glasses now) and/or a camera an optical viewfinder with diopter adjustment, which is sufficient for my long sightedness, but I'm lucky in that the eye I tend to use on the viewfinder is the "better" one as well.
You used to be able to get aftermarket eye pieces to attach the the camera as well which either put more distance between the back of the camera and your head in order to make room for glasses, or (more rarely) had or could accept additional correction lenses.
I'm not sure if those are a thing still for the newest cameras though - the move towards EVFs make it even more of a niche item.
Why not but..
No grip, with a zoom it can become complicated to hold the whole thing properly.
And at what price?
On the other hand, regarding miniaturization, it’s a success.
Sigma are like the Cybertruck of cameras. Impractical sharp shape, expensive, lacking in practical features professionals actually need. But appeal to larping tech bros who have enough money to buy them just to visually stand out.
They make great lenses, but the camera bodies are all compromise with no low price to reflect it.
Sigma are far and away my favourite photographic company right now, for a variety of reasons, but top of the list has to be that they're doing something different. What they're doing might not be for you but at least they're not just making another camera the same shape as every DSLR/mirrorless camera going back 25 years.
From a personal perspective, they were the only company that was interested in loaning me gear to review from right at the start of me making YouTube videos. Many other companies continue to refuse to talk with me even when I've found serious bugs.
The frustrating part is that they're currently not releasing full-frame lenses on Nikon's Z mount, likely due to a licensing issue with Nikon. And that's frustrating because for my needs, there's no "pro" level camera on L mount that I can use, and Sony hobble third party lens manufacturers' maximum burst speeds (also I don't like Sony's AF but that's another story). I ended up selling a lot of my L mount gear and consolidating on Nikon for professional work.
But I did buy myself a Sigma Bf. The Fp series is excellent but the Bf is beautiful. It's such a fundamentally weird camera that it reminds me of camera design back in the 60s-90s where companies went absolutely nuts with camera ideas. Is it my most practical camera? Very much not. Is it the camera I use to take pictures of my cat? Absolutely.
I'm always excited to see what Sigma comes out with. Their optics and manufacturing have moved on dramatically since Yamaki-san took over in 2012, and they're constantly bringing out really interesting new optics. I'm very excited to try out that new 50mm f/1.4 CL they announced, personally.
Sigma is the last great experimenter in the industry and I appreciate everything they do however wacky (former fp, fpL and various i-series lens owner)
I'm done w/ hybrid cameras. Just make a video focused camera or a photography focused camera. Didn't people learn their lesson after seeing how well FX3 did?
Cautiously optimistic for them. Sigma faces some steep competition against Canon/Sony/Nikon but might be able to find a niche like Fuji has with price on one hand and lens+color fans on the other.
No IBIS is rough, because its definitely a useful thing - the R6 III has 8.5 stops for $2.7k, same price as the FP2 with an EVF. At $2.2k, the partial stacked sensor might reduce the jello effect, might not. It's an interesting tradeoff and it'll come down to whether the AF is good enough to make the 20 fps it shoots at usable. For example, if you shoot 30 fps but the AF doesn't work, 28/30 shots being blurry is a waste. The flagship cameras can get 60-90% keep rates if you do your part, so I'm curious what Sigma's system can pull off outside of a studio.
I think the biggest problem with a minimalist ILC is that a commodity body stops making sense bc once you throw in even a few decent lenses and the usual other spend on memory and lights, you're outside of the budget range. You don't _have_ to have Art lenses and nice gear - one of my favorite fun lenses is a $150 lensbaby experiment, but the gap between a decently rounded Canon kit and a Sigma kit closes in price and widens in capability fast once you get started, at least gear-wise.
24mp on full frame just isn’t enough. The resolving power of good glass is just significantly better than the pixel size, and when you can find 40 and 60+ mp options and get significantly more flexibility for significant cropping and still be of high enough resolution for prints. I do not understand why anyone is buying these low megapixel cameras in full frame in 2026.
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https://www.da.vidbuchanan.co.uk/blog/android-c2pa.html
Like a Pixel 6a is $249 new right now.
So, where's that same caliber of hardware, but as a camera-first?
Whatever denoising algorithm they put on the camera, your laptop will do it better. Stripping back the processing means you can take photos at 60fps with minimal battery drain.
https://www.classiccameradatabase.com/blog/the-mirrorless-ca...
This camera was great. I could take pictures and upload them directly to Picassa without screwing around with SD cards. The camera UI was also a step up from the regular morass of menus, all alike.
Sony camera firmware is Android based, but without the Android UI.
Some of the camera makers have added apps and app stores and they haven’t been popular.
Most users don’t want their dedicated camera to be a full Android phone. The specs of the CPU don’t matter as long as it shoots fast enough and does what you need when you press the button.
The touchscreens are a common point of complaint as they are. Many photographers want physical controls and a viewfinder. The screen is only there to review photos quickly.
Yeah, sure. If you want a great shot in low-light conditions, you often need to tweak the color balance and exposure.
My usual test is taking a picture of the full moon. Most cameras on automatic settings result in a white blob.
I also frequently want to review a couple of previous photos to see if I messed up anything.
> Some of the camera makers have added apps and app stores and they haven’t been popular.
Camera app stores were never popular because the SDKs for cameras were obscure and buggy.
Exactly. That's the type of interaction they need to support, not all of the Facebook Messenger and other app interactions the parent commenter is looking for.
Those functions are also the ones most frequently requested to appear on physical controls.
Nowadays Android is mostly a hidden implementation detail, but I did recently see someone Claude+ADB some neat stuff for their Sony camera.
https://th.hkyongnuo.com/products/yn455
https://web.archive.org/web/20120831232318/http://geeknizer....
But they just didn't have the ergonomics or battery life to act as a replacement for small SLRs.
Are there any particular use cases where a camera this small really offers a significant benefit? Perhaps street photography when paired with certain compact lenses?
Then when I need to I can attach the same body to a big lens (Tamron 28-200, Sigma 100-400) and slap on a Smallrig grip to counteract the lens weight. It's great for protests and birding.
IMO the benefit is that one can purchase a single body and do big camera and small camera things with it.
Whereas the FP2 seems to compromise more on useful features in the name of compactness.
And it looks like there are some interesting ultra compact (and affordable) autofocus lenses from Chinese makers available now compared to when I last looked.
Having more compact full frame lenses on offer is an exciting development IMO. Although none of them are stabilized, which makes the lack of IBIS on the FP2 a bit more painful.
[1] https://www.sigma-global.com/en/news/2026/10/23/012375/
"We had the genius idea of taking a linear actuator and wrapping it into a circle... let's call it a 'normal motor'!"
For the lower-resolution versions, they're very popular with video people from my understanding. The Fp was in particular popular with directors for test shots and framing, and they've leaned into that use-case with this new one I believe.
I had some interest in the first Sigma FP, but my impression is that it was getting used mostly in highly modular video setups, not so much to save space.
Lack of in body image stabilization is difficult, though. It makes sense for a minimum size camera but IBIS is amazing when it’s working well.
https://petapixel.com/2025/10/27/sigma-says-full-frame-foveo...
“But there are — to be honest, the project has been a little bit delayed… because every time we run the wafer and get the prototype sensor, we found some technical issues because we have never designed a sensor by ourselves."
I imagine that different silicon fabs or even different runs of the same fab have slightly different absorption on each focal plan in the sensor and calibrating that at high quality is tricky? Can you even do BSI? I have no idea
Meanwhile my Sony camera acquires a location from my phone instantly. That’s why gps has been removed, it’s so much better to acquire location from your phone which always has a fix.
I also self host Dawarich which has a log of my location and can plug in to Immich to fill in location metadata for any photos which are missing it.
I made a physical GPS logger a while ago with AGPS support (over BT), and it's now trivial to do. There's also the most trivial thing possible: after you take a photo, start getting a fix, and update the GPS position on the photo once the fix is acquired.
Sure, I have workarounds. When taking pictures with my camera, I also typically take a picture with my phone to get a fix. Then I can copy-paste the location in Immich.
Oh, and another thing that GPS buys: automatic timezones. I always keep forgetting to set the time and date on my camera.
You used to be able to get aftermarket eye pieces to attach the the camera as well which either put more distance between the back of the camera and your head in order to make room for glasses, or (more rarely) had or could accept additional correction lenses.
I'm not sure if those are a thing still for the newest cameras though - the move towards EVFs make it even more of a niche item.
They make great lenses, but the camera bodies are all compromise with no low price to reflect it.
From a personal perspective, they were the only company that was interested in loaning me gear to review from right at the start of me making YouTube videos. Many other companies continue to refuse to talk with me even when I've found serious bugs.
The frustrating part is that they're currently not releasing full-frame lenses on Nikon's Z mount, likely due to a licensing issue with Nikon. And that's frustrating because for my needs, there's no "pro" level camera on L mount that I can use, and Sony hobble third party lens manufacturers' maximum burst speeds (also I don't like Sony's AF but that's another story). I ended up selling a lot of my L mount gear and consolidating on Nikon for professional work.
But I did buy myself a Sigma Bf. The Fp series is excellent but the Bf is beautiful. It's such a fundamentally weird camera that it reminds me of camera design back in the 60s-90s where companies went absolutely nuts with camera ideas. Is it my most practical camera? Very much not. Is it the camera I use to take pictures of my cat? Absolutely.
I'm always excited to see what Sigma comes out with. Their optics and manufacturing have moved on dramatically since Yamaki-san took over in 2012, and they're constantly bringing out really interesting new optics. I'm very excited to try out that new 50mm f/1.4 CL they announced, personally.
I highly recommend watching videos on the ProcessX YouTube channel that shows their factory and processes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx14Juo4AQo.
I have a very nice tripod that has been in the closet for a decade because I do not have a use for it with what I shoot.
Sigma's entire differentiator is quality at price for clear tradeoffs, and their lenses often succeed, curious if this might. Tough market, though.
No IBIS is rough, because its definitely a useful thing - the R6 III has 8.5 stops for $2.7k, same price as the FP2 with an EVF. At $2.2k, the partial stacked sensor might reduce the jello effect, might not. It's an interesting tradeoff and it'll come down to whether the AF is good enough to make the 20 fps it shoots at usable. For example, if you shoot 30 fps but the AF doesn't work, 28/30 shots being blurry is a waste. The flagship cameras can get 60-90% keep rates if you do your part, so I'm curious what Sigma's system can pull off outside of a studio.
I think the biggest problem with a minimalist ILC is that a commodity body stops making sense bc once you throw in even a few decent lenses and the usual other spend on memory and lights, you're outside of the budget range. You don't _have_ to have Art lenses and nice gear - one of my favorite fun lenses is a $150 lensbaby experiment, but the gap between a decently rounded Canon kit and a Sigma kit closes in price and widens in capability fast once you get started, at least gear-wise.