What a coincidence, I am working on deploying the https://nolongerevil.com/ on my 2nd Gen Nest Thermostat, my wife has bugging me for weeks to either fix it or buy a new one.
I am actually going to self-host and vibe code my own cloud service on Cloudflare.
Why bother? Block WAN access at the router, put the entire thing behind a VPN (Tailscale or Wireguard, dealers choice), and move on. If you really care, put everything you vibe code or consider security-abandonware on its own VLAN.
Keep it off the WAN and you'll be streets ahead of commercial vendors, and your weird, one-off, vibe-coded app means those same commercial vendors are the easier, more widely-deployed targets anyways.
Could do something like oauth to gmail + OTP (or passkeys) on cloudflare workers with long lived sessions or I could vibe code an iOS app even and side load it. That would be very secure as well. I haven't decided yet.
I have a personal password manager secured like that I vibe coded to replace 1password and so far it is working great.
If someone says Google can't be trusted for purchases of long-term, capital-style goods like a thermostat (or smoke detectors), I'd have to agree.
The Nest I bought way back when may still be installed in the home I sold 10+ years ago.
But I didn't buy it from Google, I bought it from Nest (pre-Google) - a company that designed and sold high-tech gear that was designed to be permanently installed and (presumably) last a good long time. The acquisition was not a good match, but it is what it is - lesson learned and reputations lost.
(and the design, honestly, was more down Apple's lane than Google's - I thought the former would be more likely to buy them out, not that it guranteed any different results).
I think that's an overly optimistic take, because we've been through this over and over, and it's only getting worse. We collectively are clearly not getting the message, and we don't own anything as a result.
Actually, I agree. I wasn't talking about consumer boycotts in particular. With the current concentration of money and power, consumer choice has less influence on corporations with each passing day. This is made abundantly clear with the current wipeout of the personal computing market to make way for AI data centers.
So I believe that the lesson we should learn here is the importance of public pressure and proper regulations that rein in bad actors.
I have one objection, though. It's a mistake to think that Anthropic is on the consumer's side. That's the same mistake we've made over and over.
On one hand, I obviously can’t legitimately expect the manufacturers of these things to support their older hardware offerings ad vitam aeternam.
On the other, it’s a freaking thermostat controller. An appliance. I don’t want to have to replace appliances before they break, and software breaking it is unacceptable.
I’ve been largely holding off on domotics because so much of it reeks of premature obsolescence... Maybe someone over here has good experience with Home Assistant et al?
I was looking at wireless cameras on eBay and had to stop because I realized I can't just check specs and price. I have to make sure they don't require a cloud connection and or a service plan.
I just bought a couple of Reolink RLC-810A cameras, and realized too late (after receiving them) that they require an app just to enable communications and configure the baseline RTSP functionality. Claude found https://github.com/TinKurbatoff/reolink-init# and took care of the issue nicely.
I will probably buy a couple more of the RLC-810As, since I can only assume that newer models will be harder for the owner to actually own.
I've been using NodeRED + zigbee2mqtt/zwavejs for my locally controlled home automation to great effect. I expose all my devices to Google Home as a convenient frontend, but all the actual devices are mine and locally controlled so I can replace Google at any point. I tried home assistant years ago, but aside from the wealth of plugins I didn't find its approach particularly convincing. I have on occasion used it simply as a bridge between node red and HA plugins before though which is nice for niche devices or integrations
plenty of things should have a mandatory sort of twenty year supportability warranty. not necessarily free repairs but an enforceable promise that a thing / "ecosystem" can be used for a reasonably expected lifetime
I've recently set up Home Assistant again after a 5 year hiatus. All my old devices still work fine.
I primarily use zigbee, which is fully local and very reliable. Home Assistant supports a lot, including older hardware. I have a 2010 Philips LivingColors lamp (predecessor of the Hue) that talks early zigbee and still connects to a 2026 zigbee dongle + Home Assistant install.
I avoid any cloud dependency for the reason you give. Anything local, especially with open protocols and an active community, will probably work for a very long time. Likely the lifetime of the appliance.
Honestly, given the surveillance capitalism of it all, I take this as a win. The termostst should have been dumb the whole time, not an avenue for harvesting our data.
Nest is a disaster. Same with their fire alarms. I spent a small fortune buying those, just to rip them out and dump into garbage. Google hardware - never again.
not the parent, but when my nest protects died i switched to dumb ones. all co2 detectors expire after ten years, nest decided the appropriate action is to just brick it when they were ten years old. the only feature i really used was using the app to silence it when cooking got smoky. but theres very few options for smart ones, lack of interconnect compatibility got frustrating if i wanted to mix smart and dumb, and it would have easily cost twice as much(i have 6 detectors).
ive considered connecting the interconnect wire to my esp32 (that replaced the security system) and get it pushed into home assistant, but without the ability to silence, a push notification that it is going off just didnt seem worth it
It truly is, and it's a shame since the hardware build quality was solid.
My gen 3 had a bug where when selecting heat mode from off mode after previously being in cooling mode, it'd pulse the AC briefly before ultimately engaging heat, which is absolutely not what you want to do when it's below safe operating temp for the AC compressor.
It was a really basic thing that would have been quickly patched if owned by a thermostat company, but clearly asking too much when owned by an advertising company.
One of many reasons I prefer home automation hardware that uses ZigBee, Z-Wave, or Thread over using WiFi. If it uses WiFi it almost always wants to connect to or worse requires a cloud, where the dedicated home automation network tech is basically the polar opposite and requires that it work entire directly locally or with a local hub.
Other major reason being that "IoT" devices usually have the shittiest WiFi radios that usually don't even support 5 GHz and almost never support WiFi 6/7 modes where they aren't wasting a ton of airtime on their low-bandwidth communication.
in theory AI can produce the ongoing software support. and the compute bill is trivial compared to even a single AI assistant customer (1/500). something doesn't add up
Should you throw out your entire home every 1–2 years, just because a corporation would like you to?
It's not a phone, so we're not necessarily expecting the lack-of-longevity we'd expect of a phone. (Although even a lot of phones are basically corp "can-you-upgrade-every-2-yr-or-more".)
If it depends on some services that are being sunset then the cost of getting them working again approximates the cost of getting them working in the first place.
The law should require that if a company sells hardware that depends on an internet service, and later discontinues that service, it must open-source the communication protocol and provide a way to connect the hardware to alternative services. This requirement should cover every feature that was functional when the device was sold.
Fortunately Nest owners got lucky this time and there was an escape hatch that allowed projects like No Longer Evil. But there's a long list of devices that have been bricked when their manufacturers shut down a proprietary backend.
Someone has to write 'The law', and we need to prioritize politicians that do (instead of those that are trying to get views on social media by getting quips/gotcha moments).
Another case of a smart home device that unnecessarily needs someone else's servers. They could've made it controllable over the local network and that would've solved, like, 80% of this issue.
I have a z-wave hub I bought about 8 years ago. Admittedly, it's shit, but it does one thing right — you only need the manufacturer's cloud services if you want to control it from outside of your LAN, or if you want integrations with other services.
This thing was released in 2011, and can be replaced in 5 minutes for like $100. This is probably longer than any "smart" device from any manufacturer has ever worked. Not everything needs to be an anti-Google crusade.
As if dumb thermostats last really that long.
Ours from Brötli died after around four years.
The replacement has a manufacturing date from 2008 -- what a joke.
The firmware in those things has bugs (like switching some, but not all programs at midnight) that will never get fixed; it works, but not flawless.
Considering this I wouldn't mind a smart solution that lasts /only/ ten years, but gets bug fixes during its lifetime.
Have since replaced it with a Z wave Honeywell thermostat, and I'm much happier.
Not only did I kill the wifi & Internet dependency, but the UX is much closer to a traditional thermostat. So other folks don't seem to have an issue with it as much.
And it actually supports my hardware thermometer for dual fuel cutover.
I will NEVER buy google hardware again. They kill stuff that we depend on and then just expect you to buy their latest version. Up yours, not going to happen. Got rid of my last nest products this year and did NOT replace with the google version. Goodbye!
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[ 2.0 ms ] story [ 40.9 ms ] threadI am actually going to self-host and vibe code my own cloud service on Cloudflare.
Keep it off the WAN and you'll be streets ahead of commercial vendors, and your weird, one-off, vibe-coded app means those same commercial vendors are the easier, more widely-deployed targets anyways.
I have a personal password manager secured like that I vibe coded to replace 1password and so far it is working great.
But I didn't buy it from Google, I bought it from Nest (pre-Google) - a company that designed and sold high-tech gear that was designed to be permanently installed and (presumably) last a good long time. The acquisition was not a good match, but it is what it is - lesson learned and reputations lost.
(and the design, honestly, was more down Apple's lane than Google's - I thought the former would be more likely to buy them out, not that it guranteed any different results).
I think that's an overly optimistic take, because we've been through this over and over, and it's only getting worse. We collectively are clearly not getting the message, and we don't own anything as a result.
So I believe that the lesson we should learn here is the importance of public pressure and proper regulations that rein in bad actors.
I have one objection, though. It's a mistake to think that Anthropic is on the consumer's side. That's the same mistake we've made over and over.
To a point anyway.
On the other, it’s a freaking thermostat controller. An appliance. I don’t want to have to replace appliances before they break, and software breaking it is unacceptable.
I’ve been largely holding off on domotics because so much of it reeks of premature obsolescence... Maybe someone over here has good experience with Home Assistant et al?
They've had 10+ years to plan ahead for this eventuality, and it's not rocket science.
I will probably buy a couple more of the RLC-810As, since I can only assume that newer models will be harder for the owner to actually own.
for a thermostat that's measured in decades
I primarily use zigbee, which is fully local and very reliable. Home Assistant supports a lot, including older hardware. I have a 2010 Philips LivingColors lamp (predecessor of the Hue) that talks early zigbee and still connects to a 2026 zigbee dongle + Home Assistant install.
I avoid any cloud dependency for the reason you give. Anything local, especially with open protocols and an active community, will probably work for a very long time. Likely the lifetime of the appliance.
More dumb electronics please.
ive considered connecting the interconnect wire to my esp32 (that replaced the security system) and get it pushed into home assistant, but without the ability to silence, a push notification that it is going off just didnt seem worth it
It truly is, and it's a shame since the hardware build quality was solid.
My gen 3 had a bug where when selecting heat mode from off mode after previously being in cooling mode, it'd pulse the AC briefly before ultimately engaging heat, which is absolutely not what you want to do when it's below safe operating temp for the AC compressor.
It was a really basic thing that would have been quickly patched if owned by a thermostat company, but clearly asking too much when owned by an advertising company.
Never again.
Other major reason being that "IoT" devices usually have the shittiest WiFi radios that usually don't even support 5 GHz and almost never support WiFi 6/7 modes where they aren't wasting a ton of airtime on their low-bandwidth communication.
It's not a phone, so we're not necessarily expecting the lack-of-longevity we'd expect of a phone. (Although even a lot of phones are basically corp "can-you-upgrade-every-2-yr-or-more".)
And I have to replace my HVAC every 20 years so yes I do expect to have to spend money once every couple decades
Fortunately Nest owners got lucky this time and there was an escape hatch that allowed projects like No Longer Evil. But there's a long list of devices that have been bricked when their manufacturers shut down a proprietary backend.
I have a z-wave hub I bought about 8 years ago. Admittedly, it's shit, but it does one thing right — you only need the manufacturer's cloud services if you want to control it from outside of your LAN, or if you want integrations with other services.
Considering this I wouldn't mind a smart solution that lasts /only/ ten years, but gets bug fixes during its lifetime.
The procedure is simple. 2 fix periods : one in the morning one in the evening and in between if somebody comes home he/she turns the heat manually.
I didn’t see any advantage more inconvenient: * saw people at home that were not * started to heat the whole house while I just work in my office.
I have not yet found a practical case except that I can turn it off remotely when I’m on vacation if i forget.
Are any people here getting any advantages?
Have since replaced it with a Z wave Honeywell thermostat, and I'm much happier.
Not only did I kill the wifi & Internet dependency, but the UX is much closer to a traditional thermostat. So other folks don't seem to have an issue with it as much.
And it actually supports my hardware thermometer for dual fuel cutover.