I think you might want to consider why the customer said fuck you here. You're "can't replicate it" response is terrible customer service, and it seems commons sense to expect that they'd be frustrated. Your response of "can't replicate it" feels like a fuck you, if not in so many words.
Also, giving advice based on a single experience rather than several repeated successful outcomes seems like a bad practice for helping other entrepreneurs, and they might not read all the way to the bottom to discover that data point.
Fair point - should have added more context there: the exchange referenced as a small part of a longer multi-part conversation during which we'd been really responsive (conversations lasting hours sometimes). We eventually fixed the problem - my contention is merely that a "f*ck you" was neither necessary nor productive towards solving Jon's problem (which we eventually did despite the comment).
That was my thought. "can't replicate it" is an excuse rather than an apology, "fuck you" is still uncalled for, but making a blog post doesn't fix anything for anyone and just looks like whining.
It might have looked better a few months later as a humorous addition to a "things people have said to our customer support" list
Even if there was a long conversation leading up to this, the sudden, curt tone of "can't replicate it" would all but guarantee aggravation and insult to the customer (I'd most certainly feel insulted). A more appropriate response would have been "I'm sorry, but we just can't replicate it on our end. We'll keep trying, though."
Yes, that was my reaction to this story to. "Can't replicate it" (a.k.a. It Works Fine On My Machine) is a classic move to dismiss complaints from users about problems with software by shifting the blame from the software to the user -- if it works for me and not for you, you must be the one who did something wrong, not me.
After long experience, the users understand this, and don't like being dismissed.
"Nuclear option"? I think it is more the Applebee's / lame tech support option. It was taught to the whole industry and now is used by everyone to a counterproductive end. I subscribe much more to the ways described by Gary Vaynerchuk in the The Thank You Economy where someone swore to his face and that person is now, years later, one of his VPs after Gary got to the bottom of the problem.
Holy shit, if you were providing a service and sent me (a customer) an email like that I'd leave you in a heartbeat. Talk about a "fuck you".
I get customers can be hard but "can't replicate it" translates directly into "find another service provider".
Really, if the relationship has moved to this level a canned "We're sorry but we are going to have to terminate this relationship, here's a generous timeline and a few freebies to make us look like the better person" response would have been MUCH better.
> I get customers can be hard but "can't replicate it" translates directly into "find another service provider".
Omitted for brevity (as others have pointed out in the comments): we maintained a relationship with the customer long after the exchange. The goal definitely wasn't to get him to "find another service provider" so much as it was to reset the tone.
All that being said, clearly my casual response ("can't replicate it") definitely was the wrong thing to do, as I didn't intend it to offend at all.
Does anyone on HN go to training anymore? Effective customer service, hiring practices, how to treat your employees, etc are all solved problems. One can pick up a book and/or have an educator teach you how to do these things effectively.
I agree with most of the post, but I think it barely scratches the surface. There is just so much to say about this...
* What about a culture where people end up feeling entitled to ask for everything? Should I accept abuses?
* What about personality disorders? There are lots of people out there suffering psychological diseases. How do you diagnose it and handle it, if you are not a psychiatrist?
* You're supposed to be show genuine empathy for your customers needs. I don't know if that is even possible without some emotional vulnerability. How do you control your emotions when people react just plain mean?
There are worse customers, to me, than those that simply aren't polite. For example, a few times a year, someone will show up, subscribe to a webapp for months, then send an e-mail asking to cancel and get a refund for all their past payments "because I meant to cancel before" -- when they were logging in and using the service regularly the entire time. Even the most polite ways of saying "no" seem to lead to "I'll just call my bank for a refund then". A series of chargebacks, even if they're easily disputed, is more of a threat than the lost revenue -- and running into people so unethical messes with my head more than a "fuck you" ever would.
This is quite true and real. Though you must be aware that this happens to every business. Adjust your prices accordingly, and only worry when it starts being a common occurrence (keep track of it). Plus, not everyone that does it is evil. People go through hard times. They might need to scrounge up some funds to pay rent this month and will do anything to survive (short of assaulting a bank). Don't demonize them. You dont know what might be happening in their lives.
Though some just are entitled assholes. Leave those alone. No sense in trying to paint the sky.
Good point. But some people are just assholes, and thats OK. Realize that people are different and come in quite an array of colors, personalities, backgrounds, etc. Some of them will be assholes to you. Plus you can't just let people push your buttons. People will say mean things. Hell, I'm a big-eared latino nerd who wears black plastic glasses. I was never great at sports and was very shy. All of my life has been about people telling me mean things and names. But it doesnt matter to me now. Why? Becuase those who say mean things are just a reflection of the things they say. I know you are a good person, and shit, we all have bad moments like this. Do realize that you have to face the mistake and make things rights. Your busines is about customer service, and this is a great opportunity to show what you really are made of.
* What about a culture where people end up feeling entitled to ask for everything? Should I accept abuses?
I don't see anything wrong in people being entitled to ask for everything but they shouldn't feel entitled to actually get it. You can and normally should say no. Edit: Politely and where possible with a reason.
Having said that there are businesses that make their money from catering to insane requirements and going to insane lengths to look after customers but they really make them pay for it. E.g. super luxury hotels.
RE Scaling comment - I work for a fairly large company, and we definitely have a template that says something along the lines of, "When you send us an email, you're talking to a real human being. If you can't talk to us in a more courteous manner, we're more than happy to send you your balance and end our relationship."
I think this is what Herb Kelleher was getting at - treating his employees well while still providing a good customer experience (which Southwest is still known for)
That's how the co-founder of a customer service oriented company responds to a bug complaint? Three whole words? And then he has the nerve to "go nuclear" on the customer? Wow, talk about being rude and arrogant. Not only is your response unprofessional because of its poor grammar, you also didn't even give the cusomter the impression that their complaint matters to you.
How about something like, "Still haven't been able to replicate it yet, but we're trying"?
I wouldn't respond how the customer did, but I think you deserved it.
Pretty much this. A better response might be "I need more information, because I can't get this problem to happen on my machine. Can you tell me more about exactly what you were doing when the problem happened?" That's just a generic response; someone who knows the product could probably come up with more specific questions to guide the user toward giving the right info.
> A better response might be "I need more information, because I can't get this problem to happen on my machine. Can you tell me more about exactly what you were doing when the problem happened?"
Definitely a better response. No excuse for the casualness of my tone - just reflective of my relationship with Jon (which at the time was more casual/familiar than with others)
Sometimes, "Fuck out" is the most polite, concise, and well reasoned response someone can give, because it points out how you've been treating them.
What you fail to realize, even to this day, is that you said "Fuck you" to him FIRST.
Then when he called you on it, you did it again.
You blew him off with a three word response that doesn't give him anything to go on, or any reason to believe that you were taking him seriously.
Then when he called you on your failure to provide adequate service (or an explanation of why you couldn't or even, have given him anything to go on to try and move the ball forward)... rather than recognize that message for what it was (A repetition of what you said to him) you made it even worse!
Your final response is blowing him off, telling him that he's not an important customer, that you care much more about having your anus licked very carefully, than about the issue at hand.
YOU made it personal. First by blowing him off, then when he (quite politely, frankly) pointed this out to you, you made it all about him.
Worse, you've now gone and written a blog post.
This whole affair is all about how your delicate sensibilities are far more important to you than solving a customers problem.
Worse, it wasn't even sufficient to simply blow him off, you had to do it PUBLICLY by writing this blog post... while smugly lecturing us on good customer service?
Frankly, I would be astounded, but there seems to be a lot of this kind of attitude going around silicon valley these days.
I think its what you get when you get kids right out of college and have them do "startups" without them ever having any real life experience.
I suspect pointing this out to you is not going to make any sense. You clearly think you were in the right, and you may not be able to conceive of how you might not be. That's the problem.
That you work for a company all about "customer service" is pretty rich irony, though.
You just told everyone over 30 that, when push comes to shove, you care more about finding an excuse to blow them off.
For some time it's been apparent that working with complete sentences (let alone capitalization) is a sure path to being seen as a cut above, professionally.
My father took me aside when I was 6 years old (I still remember this conversation like it was yesterday), because I was complaining about writing class, and he told me, yes, it's hard, but it's the number one skill you need to succeed in life. He was a tech guy who was made manager of a half-dozen younger engineers at Northrop-Grumman in no small part because he could boil all the tech stuff down into a 1-page report that could be placed directly on the CEO's desk.
I still didn't like writing, of course. But I had no idea how right he was. It continues to amaze me how rare proper grammer, coherent sentences, and clear, concise thinking are in the professional world, and how much of a jump start he gave me forcing me to learn those skills, year in, year out.
Completely agree. I used to love as a programmer selecting "Works for Me" from the dropdown on QA reports because in my mind it was like selecting "Fuck Off, Noob". Terse replies can come across wrong. Even, "can't replicate it yet..." would be much better as it shows you're willing to still try. Or "can't replicate it on my environment" because it means the customer has a valid complaint. "Cant replicate it" means you think the customer is explaining something wrong or is otherwise nuts.
Happens to me all the time. I run an online football management game, and there are a lot of children who play and think calling you names is a reasoned response to an issue.
The thing is, you don't let it get to you or even register it. They pay you money, you deal with it. That's the way it works.
Also, I've never once told them it's not very nice. They know it's not very nice.
I've turned paying customers around from "Fuck you" into "take my money please" by just responding to the issues they say around the insults.
Here's an example.
Customer - "One of my players was cut off my team, this fucking game is stupid and I'm never going to play it again. FUUUUUUUCK YOUUUUU"
Me - "Wow, that sucks to hear. I looked over your team and it looks like you signed 1 too many players, and it had to find someone to cut. I can go ahead and reassign him to your team if you'd like, but you need to specify who so you aren't over roster limits."
Customer responds with who, and thanks me.
Completely normal. No big deal, don't let it ever get to you.
I once had a user complaining on twitter "HelloInbox sucks" (that was my company in those days). I responded "Sorry to hear that, what is the problem?". Guy asks for email address. Sends a 2 pager, starting that he really liked HelloInbox but had a list of addition featured he wanted. So awesome!
Prepare for a potential avalanche of bad press. Do the following:
1. Realize that a great product has never been enough! How you treat people is very, very important.
2. Apologize to the client. Publicly. Why? You just humiliated him/her by posting the conversation. People value their privacy, even when they are seeking customer service. Now every client might think you are going to post everything online.
3. Either learn some CS skills, or hire someone to do it, or better yet, hire me to make you a simple CS script. It only costs a couple hundred bucks but will save you these types of embarrasments.
4. Erase that blog post, and replace it with a PG version. Specially the headline. You are trading credibility for traffic? Awful idea!
5. Publish a blog post stating your new customer service guidelines and feature it on the front page of the site. If this goes viral you are going to need to combat that.
6. Next time you feel like posting something like this just stop. Think!
How would you feel if you were getting shitty customer service? Would you tell them to go fuck themselves? Of course you would! Always, always think about the other side of the coin.
This company seems thin skinned. I agree its best not allow abusive relationships with customer fester. However I don't agree that you should react to a customer blowing off steam the same way as a customer that is serially abusive.
At our company we want only happy customers. Thus we're very liberal with giving refunds when we can't fix a customer's problem.
There's no sense in having someone being mad at you and your brand because of $30. And the interesting thing is that most of those customers back off from taking the refund and prefer to keep using the software omitting the not working parts.
Very important point being made here. If you are pro-active with your customer service policies you will disarm most angry customers. But dont just offer a refund. Do more than that. Listen to them. Fix the issue (if possible), and offer a gift or refund. Very few businesses do this, and people will be blown away by your friendly attitude.
Why does my wife keep shopping at walmart.com even though their prices are not that great? Because if the item is not the coreect one (clothing size, defective gadgets, etc) she can just take it to the store and receive a refund. No questions asked. What does she do with the refund? She spends it in the store.
The difference between this and the Southwest Airlines example is that the latter comes off as touching loyalty to one's employees, which is nice pr if the anecdote becomes public. If the team member handling the abuse takes it upon him or herself to politely snub the client in the same way, it makes the entire organization seem a little snooty. Whether or not this is justified is, of course, besides the point.
You should asking yourself why things got to that point. It's unlikely they will when clients feel they are getting value from your product/service and are being treated fairly.
Wow. You're making your company look like complete idiots here, to be honest.
"cant replicate it" directly to the customer in a 3 word non-sentence from the co-founder? Really? From what's supposed to be a "customer service" company? WTF?
This should have been handled by competent support stuff who know how to talk to users. You should be apologizing for whatever it is and telling them that while you have not been able to reproduce it after many many hours of testing, you'd really like to the bottom of this mysterious issue, and then go on to suggest some steps to try and track the issue down.
There are many more ways of responding to a "f* you" than, telling them they are not very nice. He just drove a customer away with all his responses. A few hints from a blog post I wrote on dealing with angry customers just two weeks ago: http://www.olark.com/blog/2013/how-i-chat-part-3-dealing-wit...
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[ 3.7 ms ] story [ 114 ms ] threadAlso, giving advice based on a single experience rather than several repeated successful outcomes seems like a bad practice for helping other entrepreneurs, and they might not read all the way to the bottom to discover that data point.
It might have looked better a few months later as a humorous addition to a "things people have said to our customer support" list
You're totally right. No excuse for the casual tone there.
After long experience, the users understand this, and don't like being dismissed.
A very productive way of dealing with this is to dig out of it with your customer. That person will likely become a great ally.
Holy shit, if you were providing a service and sent me (a customer) an email like that I'd leave you in a heartbeat. Talk about a "fuck you".
I get customers can be hard but "can't replicate it" translates directly into "find another service provider".
Really, if the relationship has moved to this level a canned "We're sorry but we are going to have to terminate this relationship, here's a generous timeline and a few freebies to make us look like the better person" response would have been MUCH better.
Omitted for brevity (as others have pointed out in the comments): we maintained a relationship with the customer long after the exchange. The goal definitely wasn't to get him to "find another service provider" so much as it was to reset the tone.
All that being said, clearly my casual response ("can't replicate it") definitely was the wrong thing to do, as I didn't intend it to offend at all.
What on earth did you think it would do, make him jump for joy?
Especially since "it works for me" is standard helpdesk-speak for fobbing people off and closing their issues.
It didn't even occur to you to say "Sorry can't replicate it?"
That would clearly have been the right answer here.
"I'm sorry, we were unable to fix the issue. [Ask them a probing question about their environment, or requests for video]."
Seems to me, the person left the already frustrated customer with very little else to say.
* What about a culture where people end up feeling entitled to ask for everything? Should I accept abuses?
* What about personality disorders? There are lots of people out there suffering psychological diseases. How do you diagnose it and handle it, if you are not a psychiatrist?
* You're supposed to be show genuine empathy for your customers needs. I don't know if that is even possible without some emotional vulnerability. How do you control your emotions when people react just plain mean?
Though some just are entitled assholes. Leave those alone. No sense in trying to paint the sky.
I don't see anything wrong in people being entitled to ask for everything but they shouldn't feel entitled to actually get it. You can and normally should say no. Edit: Politely and where possible with a reason.
Having said that there are businesses that make their money from catering to insane requirements and going to insane lengths to look after customers but they really make them pay for it. E.g. super luxury hotels.
* I'll bend over backwards for you, but I won't bend over forwards.
* The customer is not always right - we discontinued that policy years ago due to abuse.
With that said - you'll get my absolute best effort to support you.
That's how the co-founder of a customer service oriented company responds to a bug complaint? Three whole words? And then he has the nerve to "go nuclear" on the customer? Wow, talk about being rude and arrogant. Not only is your response unprofessional because of its poor grammar, you also didn't even give the cusomter the impression that their complaint matters to you.
How about something like, "Still haven't been able to replicate it yet, but we're trying"?
I wouldn't respond how the customer did, but I think you deserved it.
Definitely a better response. No excuse for the casualness of my tone - just reflective of my relationship with Jon (which at the time was more casual/familiar than with others)
Not an excuse - when your job's doing customer service better.
What you fail to realize, even to this day, is that you said "Fuck you" to him FIRST.
Then when he called you on it, you did it again.
You blew him off with a three word response that doesn't give him anything to go on, or any reason to believe that you were taking him seriously.
Then when he called you on your failure to provide adequate service (or an explanation of why you couldn't or even, have given him anything to go on to try and move the ball forward)... rather than recognize that message for what it was (A repetition of what you said to him) you made it even worse!
Your final response is blowing him off, telling him that he's not an important customer, that you care much more about having your anus licked very carefully, than about the issue at hand.
YOU made it personal. First by blowing him off, then when he (quite politely, frankly) pointed this out to you, you made it all about him.
Worse, you've now gone and written a blog post.
This whole affair is all about how your delicate sensibilities are far more important to you than solving a customers problem.
Worse, it wasn't even sufficient to simply blow him off, you had to do it PUBLICLY by writing this blog post... while smugly lecturing us on good customer service?
Frankly, I would be astounded, but there seems to be a lot of this kind of attitude going around silicon valley these days.
I think its what you get when you get kids right out of college and have them do "startups" without them ever having any real life experience.
I suspect pointing this out to you is not going to make any sense. You clearly think you were in the right, and you may not be able to conceive of how you might not be. That's the problem.
That you work for a company all about "customer service" is pretty rich irony, though.
You just told everyone over 30 that, when push comes to shove, you care more about finding an excuse to blow them off.
I still didn't like writing, of course. But I had no idea how right he was. It continues to amaze me how rare proper grammer, coherent sentences, and clear, concise thinking are in the professional world, and how much of a jump start he gave me forcing me to learn those skills, year in, year out.
The thing is, you don't let it get to you or even register it. They pay you money, you deal with it. That's the way it works.
Also, I've never once told them it's not very nice. They know it's not very nice.
I've turned paying customers around from "Fuck you" into "take my money please" by just responding to the issues they say around the insults.
Here's an example.
Customer - "One of my players was cut off my team, this fucking game is stupid and I'm never going to play it again. FUUUUUUUCK YOUUUUU"
Me - "Wow, that sucks to hear. I looked over your team and it looks like you signed 1 too many players, and it had to find someone to cut. I can go ahead and reassign him to your team if you'd like, but you need to specify who so you aren't over roster limits."
Customer responds with who, and thanks me.
Completely normal. No big deal, don't let it ever get to you.
1. Realize that a great product has never been enough! How you treat people is very, very important.
2. Apologize to the client. Publicly. Why? You just humiliated him/her by posting the conversation. People value their privacy, even when they are seeking customer service. Now every client might think you are going to post everything online.
3. Either learn some CS skills, or hire someone to do it, or better yet, hire me to make you a simple CS script. It only costs a couple hundred bucks but will save you these types of embarrasments.
4. Erase that blog post, and replace it with a PG version. Specially the headline. You are trading credibility for traffic? Awful idea!
5. Publish a blog post stating your new customer service guidelines and feature it on the front page of the site. If this goes viral you are going to need to combat that.
6. Next time you feel like posting something like this just stop. Think! How would you feel if you were getting shitty customer service? Would you tell them to go fuck themselves? Of course you would! Always, always think about the other side of the coin.
Good luck. You will need it.
There's no sense in having someone being mad at you and your brand because of $30. And the interesting thing is that most of those customers back off from taking the refund and prefer to keep using the software omitting the not working parts.
Why does my wife keep shopping at walmart.com even though their prices are not that great? Because if the item is not the coreect one (clothing size, defective gadgets, etc) she can just take it to the store and receive a refund. No questions asked. What does she do with the refund? She spends it in the store.
"cant replicate it" directly to the customer in a 3 word non-sentence from the co-founder? Really? From what's supposed to be a "customer service" company? WTF?
This should have been handled by competent support stuff who know how to talk to users. You should be apologizing for whatever it is and telling them that while you have not been able to reproduce it after many many hours of testing, you'd really like to the bottom of this mysterious issue, and then go on to suggest some steps to try and track the issue down.
... WTF.