HN Explorer

Ask HN: How many hackers are also fighters?

8 points by aarongough ↗ HN
While I was at a Dog Brothers Martial Arts training camp last weekend I noticed that almost 70% (roughly) of the people there were involved in the IT industry in some way. Most of the people I talked to were programmers of some kind.

I'd be interested to see what the percentage is the other way. A lot of the martial artists I have met have been programmers, how many programmers are also martial artists?

42 comments

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noodle
i used to be a professional martial artist until i killed my knees. now i fence.
aarongough
Yeah I hear you on the knees. I managed to give myself severe tendinitis in both knees about 1 1/2 years ago, luckily I was able to slowly get rid of the pain and get my strength back, but it's been a long road.

Do you enjoy fencing? Do you think a lot of the footwork stuff would be useful in other martial arts? I've been wanting to try it for a long time now...

noodle
yeah, i still have knee problems with things like running for more than 15 minutes. they're better now, but i doubt they'll ever be "good".

i definitely enjoy it, for a lot of reasons. been doing it for a while now. the transition from what i was doing to fencing was pretty smooth because of the established general body kinesthetics and concepts you've probably picked up along the way. they translate well. it doesn't make you automatically awesome, but it helps you become competent quickly.

aarongough
That's great! I always find it really interesting how much of the basics from one martial art can be applied to another. It seems to me that a lot of times the differences are in the details.

What did you fight when you were doing it professionally?

noodle
definitely. after having fenced for a little while and then testing the martial arts waters again, i found that i'd gained a lot of interesting, useful insights. the commonly pointed out anecdote is that bruce lee was a fencer, and it influenced his philosophies and development as a martial artist.

my bread and butter was teaching. the money and opportunity wasn't around for me with respect to fighting or tournaments or anything else to warrant seriously focusing more on them than i was.

icey
I had the option of teaching at a kwoon or hacking for a living. I'm here so.... (the tendinitis in both elbows at the same time was a sign that I wasn't meant to fight ;))
noodle
can't you do both? :)
icey
I could have, yes. I didn't for reasons unrelated. :D
Novash
I used to fight Aikido but now it is hard to find time for it since I work far (and by far I mean 2h30 each trip). Also, I recently suffered an accident (read, nearly broke my feet) that left me with a permanent damaged tendon on my left feet, rendering me unable to kneel down properly, which rules out the Shi-ko exercises that are paramount on the practice of Aikido.

And yes, I miss it. Every day. Martial Arts is not called 'Art' without a reason and I like to agree with pg that hacking is more closely related to the artistic field than the engineering one.

[dead] pageman
dabbled in Aikido and tried MMA. maybe some serious BJJ soon and try the rubber guard :)
aarongough
Sorry to hear about the foot. Not being able to train because of an injury is terrible...

I damaged the tendons in my knees a while back quite badly, there was a 3 month period where I couldn't walk properly at all. In the end I found that exercising my legs with slowly increasing intensity and taking ice baths after every training session has put them about 90% back to what they were, and they're still getting better!

ionfish
When I did ju-jitsu in university, everyone there studied physics, chemistry, engineering or computer science.

I found it slightly surprising at the time, but I suppose the arts and humanities students had better things to do.

Novash
Get drunk, I guess.
ionfish
Oh, we did that too, we just waited until after training.
aarongough
I've had the same experience. Nearly everyone I train with is highly intelligent and generally fairly level-headed.

I guess the popular perception is kind of the opposite, but I'm glad it doesn't work out that way!

khafra
Systema, Silat, and Xingyi. I've noticed a lot of graduate students in the sciences out rock climbing, too.
aarongough
That's a good mix, I don't even know what Xingyi is, I'll have to look that up!

I've been doing Jiu-Jitsu, Boxing, Airsoft and I've just started Kali, JKD and DBMA.

I notice a lot of martial artists like rock climbing too... I guess the challenge appeals!

noodle
xingyi (aka hsing-i) is one of the three general internal chinese styles along with taiji and bagua. if you've seen jet li's movie "the one", you've seen xingyi (and bagua). its the only pop culture reference i can think of.
jacquesm
The way you've phrased your question it's kind of hard to say that you're not.

So, I'm not :)

I don't like fighting, though I appreciate the discipline and control that goes in to things like karate.

When I was a kid and in high school I fought my lifes share of fights and since then I've worked hard to stay away from violence in any shape or form as much as I can.

aarongough
Fair enough! If you have a suggestion for an alternate title I would be open to it!

I know what you mean about staying away from violence.

I was on the receiving end of a lot of bullying in High School, I guess in the end I've gone the other way in trying to make sure that if any violence occurs, I'll be in control of myself and, as much as possible, of the outcome.

jacquesm
Well, I wasn't in one case. That was enough of a lesson for me, even though I was completely in the right. 3 months or so suspension, one guy in hospital, not a good idea.

I've gotten a lot more mellow over the years though.

movix
I do Movement Meditation in a class run by a seventy year old guy. I'm the youngest at fourty-five. It's an art, no violence or aggression, but intense training. I don't get injured - ever.

Previously kubatan, and some close protection training. I rate Systema very highly, but I still think running away is the best self defence. As I mentioned in a previous post, go surfing for the best exercise of mind and body.

aarongough
I'm intrigued by the fact that you did close protection training, I've been looking into the same thing. I find the whole concept really interesting.

After seeing the damage the a knife-fight can do in very short order I agree that running away is the best overall tactic. I do martial arts for fun and for the situation where I run away and the guy chases me :-p

movix
The training I did was based on 'Sudden Attack' principles, i.e. where you're being suddenly attacked. These are the most common forms of attack, and in most cases, no amount of martial arts training is going to help you, because you probably won't see it coming, or if you do, you have almost no time to react. I know lots will disagree with me, but that's my opinion. Most attackers are looking for an easy target, even they don't want to get hurt. Reading the situation, and getting away from it, is far more useful than fighting your way out of it.

If it does get rowdy, Systema or an improvised kubotan - a pen, dining spoon, memory stick, may help you. It's always better to get out of the situation in one piece though, and get back to some nice programming that will do some good in the world.

aarongough
No, I totally agree with you. Walking away is always the better option: that way there's no possibility of getting hurt!

I train for fun and for the rare situation where there's no other option but to stand your ground.

JimmyL
Karate in while studying computer engineering in University.

The Sensei was a trained mechanical engineer, and about half the group either had iron rings (which they all took off before fighting) or were in the process of getting them.

DanielStraight
Considering how uninteresting "no" is as a response, I think this thread will tell you precisely nothing.
aarongough
The fact that there's already been a strong response tell me that it's at least somewhat common...
electronslave
Having noticed a slight trend along these lines, I tend to avoid people who are violent and have under-developed social skills, as poor anger management strategies seem to ride along in the same bucket.
aarongough
I really don't think that I would classify too many of the people I train with, or even fought, as 'violent'. 99% of them will avoid any fight that is not in a controlled environment as much as possible, and anyone that is quick to anger generally finds going to a martial arts school a very frustrating experience. They get angry, then they lose control, then they lose. Badly. They don't seem to hang around for more than a couple of classes.

I would also say that most people I train with have very good social skills!

The people you have to worry about are the ones that aren't doing martial arts classes, because they're just sitting in their garage, cleaning their guns, by themselves.

andymism
I agree. I've been practicing judo for 14 years (I'm an assistant coach at the nearby college) and BJJ for 4. And would pretty much everone I know would avoid a street fight.

You learn pretty fast in the dojo that you really have no idea what someone is capable of until you take your grips. Outside the dojo, that maybe too late

aarongough
That's a very good way of explaining it. There's no point taking the chance that the person you're messing with is willing and capable of hurting you very badly or killing you...
yummyfajitas
Eskrima (filipino martial arts) here. In addition to being fun, it also gives you strong and flexible wrists.
aarongough
I just started Kali, which depending on your point of view, is very similar to Eskrima. It's fantastic!

If you haven't heard about the Dog Brothers you should definitely check them out! Full-contact stick fighting!

schof
Krav Maga, Kali, boxing, and bits of Muay Thai and Wing Chun; Python, BASH, and a bit of C.
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le_dominator
Five years in muay thai (MTA in North Hollywood) and blue belt in brasilian jiu jitsu. Lots of concussions, broken hands, messed up hips and tendons ;)

Seems like hackers are more into martial arts rather than MMA or muay thai or boxing, BUT I've met some guys that are engineers and programmers.

Fighting takes a couple years to get good at and keeps you goal oriented and focused under extreme stress and failure.

The first round is all hype, but when the third bell rings you feel like shit getting ready to go out there. That's when doubt creeps in. Killing that doubt in your mind or staying attacking even when you're losing is what makes a fighter a special breed of person. Lessons are learned the hard way, but they stick with you.

aarongough
I like what you're getting at in the last sentence, it really resonated with me.

I think almost as importantly fighting (in a sport context anyway) teaches you that there's a time when it's best to let things go. Learning to tap when you recognize that someone really has something locked is an important skill!

Evgeny
Hapkido consistently for a few years, also started some Krav Maga just a few weeks ago. Some Taekwondo and Aikido in the past. Haven't used any in RL yet and hopefully never will. :)
iterationx
I've done karate and shaolin kung fu and wushu.