Ask HN: Fired from my first job – how do I talk about it during interviews?

ALSO, there was another team that I think I would have been a much better fit for (tech lead actually gave a shit about programming and gave people autonomy) but unfortunately I did not take the initiative to switch over.

I have references from other people at the company as well, including the CTO, that I actually liked working with, and they liked working with me. Unfortunately they were not on my team.

Sounds like a shitty company; so I wouldn't expect a glowing reference...

For instance, you didn't like the environment which didn't care about technical debt, thought it was time for a company change, and when you voiced your concerns honestly, they let you go.

People know there are toxic environments out there.

Very important: Try to get the new employers to fall in love with hiring you before you get to that question. You can do this by having a great introductory phone screen (try to focus them on telling you about/selling you on the position before they can focus on you. During that conversation you can explain how your skills are in line with what they need, talk a little shop, show you are qualified).

Another way to achieve this is to have a great github/personal web page. If you do these things, employers will care much less about what happened at your last position and want you because of what you can do for them.

I am not saying it wasn’t a bad situation, just that you can still learn from it. Maybe, just maybe, the timing of your vacation could’ve been a little different? Maybe you could’ve worded ‘I don’t like the job I’m only here for a year’ a little differently.

Your next employer will have to decide whether the environment was toxic, or you were. Showing growth proves it was them and not you.

It was scary, and I wondered exactly the same things you did. I can offer you this advice FWIW. I found another job within 6 weeks of being let go, and I had two other offers on the table.

* Be honest. If the web form asks you if you left the company voluntarily, say no. If you left on bad terms, they'll generally ask you whether they can contact your last employer for a reference, and you can say no. They'll get the picture.

* That said, you don't exactly have to lead off every interview with it. Honestly, I don't think any of the interviewers I talked with even asked me about it. They're interested in their own impressions of you and the work you've done.

* You should prepare a short explanation that - and this is important - doesn't blame or denigrate your prior employer. I mean it. Swallow whatever feelings you have about the situation and be professional about it. A new employer may not care about the circumstances of your leaving your last gig, but they WILL certainly care about the bitter, angry guy they just interviewed for this position. Something along the lines of "My leadership and I agreed that I was no longer a good fit for the position." It sounds gross, I know, but it's not really meant to be believed, and allows everyone to save a little face.

* If they press you, you might frame it as "personality conflicts" or "communications issues". However you decide to frame it, rehearse the explanation and maybe a quick followup. You don't want to start to ramble when you're on the spot, because that'll make you nervous and you may stumble into saying something you regret.

I know exactly what you're going through. We had just bought a house, we had a nine-month-old baby, and we didn't have much in the way of savings. It was scary as hell. But you square yourself up, set your jaw, and do what you have to do. You'll get through it, and one day you'll laugh about it. I promise you you're not the first person who's been fired. Hang in there.

Also be prepared to talk about everything you learned and what you could have done better yourself. It seems like you have a good idea with hindsight about a lot of things that didn't seem right at the time.

But as noted by others, employers understand that there are toxic work environments out there. Be honest but don't belabor the point.

So your last work environment was a disaster and you got fired? Here's how to describe it in your next interview: It was a GREAT PLACE to work, I loved it, so many great learning experiences! Unfortunately the objectives of the company shifted away from my core experiences and I wasn't needed, so they had to let me go. But GREAT people there.

Seriously.

> I had a lot of suggestions for improving the codebase

It's important to learn politics and humility.

As a new graduate (or junior in general) on your first job you should be extremely careful about making suggestions to 'improve' things. Heck at any point of your career you should be careful about doing that soon after joining unless you were brought in as an expert to do just that.

From this and the rest of your post, I would suggest that you try to develop a more diplomatic, political, and humble approach in your next job. This is an important skill.

When discussing your previous positions stick to facts (I did X, Y, and Z) and positive notes about what you learned and accomplished.

Second, I wouldn't tell people that I was fired. I would list a year of experience there. If someone asked why I left I'd say that I learned a ton, the work was interesting - whatever true and positive evaluations I had, but ultimately I wasn't sure I could accomplish my career goals at the startup and so, after giving it a year, I've decided to consider other opportunities.

Also, just as an FYI: while your manager was wrong with most of his statements,

> Killing an app in iOS via the app switcher is the same as `kill -9`

iOS apps are essentially SIGKILLed if they’re swiped up on in the app switcher.

Don't spend more than a sentence or two discussing your previous role. Describe their business model and leave it at that.

90% of your interview should be finding out what skills and tech your new employer needs and explaining to them why you're perfect for delivering those skills.

My advice for your next job: don't mention any of the bad things you've experienced, talk about all the good things you've learned, the great team you had etc.. always remain positive in every new interview. And don't expect a great developer experience when you enter a new company, (although it sometimes happens), you work for money in the first place, and coding is your skill.

You shouldn't lie during an interview, but you're under no obligation to be so openly honest by offering additional details that you do yourself a disservice getting another job. I.e. If they ask you directly "were you fired from your last job?" I'd answer "the job was challenging. Let me elaborate...", etc. and if pressed actually say you were fired. But if they don't ask you that direct question, just don't mention or allude to the fact you were fired. At least that's how I'd play it.

Incidentally the same thing applies with "what were you earning?". Always ignore the question and deflect. Answer the question you wanted to hear which is "how much do you want?" and deflect. E.g. The correct answer is "I'm looking for $xx,000. So what sort of tech are they using?". If they press you for a figure just say you don't feel it's relevant because you took that job for a variety of reasons, but you're looking to make $xx,000. If they won't let it drop walk away unless it's megacorp that you're desperate to work for. "What's the minimum we can pay you?" is the most valuable piece of information a potential employer can find out about you and the last thing you should tell them.

Interviews are, fundamentally, sales propositions. You shouldn't outright lie, but you don't need to focus on the negative things either. People on the spectrum (as many engineers tend to be...) find this kind of stuff very hard. But for most people, it's fairly normal to sugar coat things to keep the social machinery flowing. It took me a long time to learn this.