"In terms of cash, it was not worth it, if we count costs (without time) + taxes, then the “earnings” from those $632 will be lower than 0. I had lost the cash, the first month is mostly the “best” month of sales, so my next month’s sales will be worse and worse, maybe a few % of my first month. Someone might be curious why I’m still keeping early access, working on the game, to be honest, I don’t believe in some magic “boom” and millions of players, I’m just fixing bugs, adding new things because… People have paid for the game :-} I could drop it because Yerba Mate Tycoon generated cash loss (working more on it, generate bigger losses). But people paid for it, it got some players, so I will work on it :-} I know that some developers drop in that situations game, it’s a logical step from a business side, but it’s against my work ethic. I never promised huge things, but I have to finish what I started."
I know what Yerba Mate is, I’m even drinking some now! I even managed to start a Yerba Mate scene at my old work. And considering how many dev stations have gourds among their vinyl toy collection makes me think there were a bunch of Canadian video game developers googling Yerba Mate at some point. I imagine this game can do well with a little bit of niche online community spelunking. We’re out there!
How did such a scene work? Did you have get togethers to talk about your Yerba Mate experiences? Are there Yearba Mate VIPs you worship together? Did you have Yerba Mate merchandise?
I think it may depend on your region. Obviously it is very well known in South America (I first became acquainted with it about 25 years ago after being friends with someone from South America who drank tereré, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terer%C3%A9, all the time), but now I see these, https://guayaki.com/our-product-family/, all over Whole Foods in Texas, so somebody must be drinking them here.
I agree with the poster. If he'd for example renamed it to Tea Tycoon and made it about tea blends then I'd imagine that he'd be doing at least 10x better.
Isn't this the effect that the web does make work, super-niche things work globally that won't work locally. I've heard of it, Yerba mate, but I've never seen it mentioned anywhere offline (UK).
Tea Tycoon, I'd have to presume has been done? Otherwise, it sounds like something people would go for.
This type of niche game might actually be the exception where long-term sales are more than the initial sales. I would rather own this game than yet another clone of some overdone theme with similar sales up to this point.
Some reasons:
* If anyone were to search for such a game, this will be the top result by default, so there might be a trickle of sales over time that just doesn't stop.
* This game may trend on some relevant subreddit/twitter clique/forum and get later sales boosts from that.
* If you have a Yerba Mate blog or podcast, this is basically the only game you can even feature if you wanted to talk about something new.
My next step would be to make a spreadsheet of anything Yerba Mate -related that could possibly feature the game and contact them all.
As far as I know we users cannot see how many sales a game has from steam, so I very much appreciate the creator telling us. I often try to judge from the number of reviews if a game has made at least a few thousand bucks. This game here has 19 reviews with 420 sales, which means that 4,5% of all people have reviewed the game, which is more than I expected (I expected a ratio of about 1%). But this means that probably other games that have only a few dozen reviews have sold comparably (poorly).
As an aside, me personally, I don't like early access games; I'd rather wait till the game is finished. I'm probably not the only one thinking like that. So I find it difficult to guess how different the sales projectory would be if it didn't have the "early access" status, but with any luck the creator will tell us once he has released V1.0 :)
When I wrote my book, they did an early access thing at it was terrible. I was still understanding where to take my book and iterate and I was getting people telling me it sucked. Uh ya, its not finished at all yet, just v1!
Not a fan. I mean I get Betas and access to things say a month or so before launch. But not during active development.
I was a first time author and they were a big publisher, should have pushed back on it. Mentally it knocked me off my horse for a bit in making good progress on the book.
5-15% is in line with for example anecdotally observed view count vs votes on videos on YouTube.
So based on that I am not surprised that video games on Steam can be expected to have a similar number of reviews relative to number of owners.
Typically I expect a video on YouTube to have about 10% votes and about 1% comments.
Do all reviews on Steam need to include text or can simple thumbs up/down be given without any text? Haven't used Steam in a while so I don't remember.
yes, you have to write a text for the review to count. I just looked into the reviews for this game and there are actually 30 reviews, but apparently not every review counts towards the statline on the main page (not exactly sure which).
I forget where I read it, but you usually won’t be too far off the mark if you multiply review count by 100. This won’t tell you revenue of course, but it gives you an idea.
My game sold about 20k units on Steam and has 165 reviews, so there’s one anecdotal point of data.
Why do you want to make an iOS/Android version when the game isn't very popular right now? You mention the competition will be a lot higher so why do you think it will be worth it?
Just interested in it, I can gain this way experiences in releasing paid game on Android/IOS.
From other side t's a lot harder (crowd market), for other there are not many paid tycoons, real tycoons games + a lot of players asked about mobile version.
It's also easy to burn bridges by canceling early access games. The vast majority of people should stay away from early access games by default because of the risk that the game remains unfinished.
Perhaps there is a better name for what these projects are: "experimental" or "exploratory" access. Something that doesn't so strongly imply their will be a later or finished state.
I've got a few "early access" games where the developer lost interest or disappeared. Most infamously Starbase DF-9, but I've got a handful of other games in my library.
Now, I'll wishlist them rather than impulse buy them and then reconsider it when it comes out of early access.
yyyy/mm/dd is the true format because its alphabetically sortable. dd/mm/yyyy is another sensible format because the units grow in size. mm/dd/yyyy is the insane one. Idk why the US persists with it tbh.
It has flaws but it’s not “insane” or entirely illogical, it’s very clearly based on the way dates are spoken and written in English, ex. “Today is July 23rd, 2021”.
It's not insane, but it's not very logical. As a non native speaker, I prefer to say "Today is the 23rd of July in 2021" which is perhaps not valid English.
The US always seem to resist sensible things when it comes to units and formats: it is a mystery to me why they are so attached to imperial units, when the rest of the world sans Liberia and Myanmar are using metric units (and Myanmar planned to leave this shameful club before the recent coup).
I should have clarified that it is how dates are pronounced in American English. British people will say “it’s the 21st of July, 2021”.
I don’t think the US resisting things is so mysterious. The US is a large country that largely defines its own culture (and exports that culture to the world). The average american isn’t going to switch systems unless they have a VERY good reason to. For the fields where it matters (ex. the sciences) they’ve largely already switched.
Sure, but I think it's more that it seems incredibly rare to write month/day without year in strictly numbers. In almost all cases i would write 15 Jun/15 Jul. I can't think of anytime i would intentionally write 15.06/15.07. We all know this is a global world. We all know conventions vary. We should aim to make things intuitive, not make people guess which convention 06.07 is using.
"rare" is subjective - I'd have written it the same way (DD.MM) if I were going to write those dates without thinking. The author is from Poland, and so am I. Old habits die hard.
The game is far, far too much of a niche style game for it to even be all that popular, IMHO. I'm not quite sure what the Dev here expected to happen. It's also Early Access and it's fair to say that unless a game has broad appeal (which shop simulators don't) and hype (definitely not in this case), people tend to stay away from Early Access games from unknown developers with insubstantial catalogs. I know I do, been burned enough times.
I'm not saying 'feel bad', here... more along the lines of 'lower your expectations'. Unless you have a big publishing house backing you, marketing money being spent, your first title isn't going to be profitable... and that's before you consider the type of game it is.
He could yet get another bump in sales from a 1.0 release, but you're right the stars are just not aligned to make Yerba Mate Tycoon an indie smash. This was not necessarily a story of loss though. Taking a project all the way to release is a feat, and his attitude toward finishing the game, not to mention supporting it after release is commendable. All this seems like it helps position the developer to solicit publishers for future projects, convince others to work with him, and even help sway potential buyers of future projects. Not to mention it's a critical learning experience, feedback like yours is very helpful. All things considered pretty successful for a first game. This dude definitely has the potential to turn a profit in the future.
That Fish Eat Fishes is neat. It's simple to play. It's very visually distinctive. Caught me off guard.
It's maybe too trivial for steam but there's certainly potential to make a game out of it. Add a timer. Add some multiplayer challenge. Add a power or two (dash forward). Make some levels to swim through in increasing difficulty and that's a definitive puzzle/platform game.
Where do you get the idea that they had high expectations? The whole article is like "I knew this game wouldn't sell, but hey, at least it did better than my first ten games". This person is a grinder and may very possibly achieve moderate success or better if they keep it up. Their trajectory is def normal for successful indie game devs, anyway. You just never hear about the dozen plus games Soderstrom made/released before Hotline Miami or Thorson made/released before Celeste, etc. Because...well, because they failed
This article does serve as yet another good reminder though that platforms are where the money is and that making content is no way to make a living. Make your fuck you money first, THEN make content using the skills you developed along the way. You'll have something to make content about, too, having been out and about in the world to make your nut
> Before the game launch, I knew that game will be a failure. I was expecting most sales from Latin America (low price), my all previous mobile games were a failure, wishlist number was low + in the first month of early access (outside of Steam) I sold 0 games copies. So, there were no success indicators. I got no problem with it, everything is running according to my plan, If my whole life is a failure, then a “failure” is something normal, it won’t affect me :-}
I'd say their expectations were pretty low, and despite that they've got a wonderfully positive attitude about the whole thing. Maybe don't be so quick to rain on that.
This is a massive personal success for any indie-dev, and the fact that he keeps pushing makes me fairly certain he'll eventually make it to a profitability with a title eventually.
Annoyingly, the dev time travelled back and incorporated all that into their original article. I think they did it just to make your advice look pointless.
My all previous games (mobile + web+ were failure.
From the blog
"Before the game launch, I knew that game will be a failure. I was expecting most sales from Latin America (low price), my all previous mobile games were a failure, wishlist number was low + in the first month of early access (outside of Steam) I sold 0 games copies. So, there were no success indicators. I got no problem with it, everything is running according to my plan, If my whole life is a failure, then a “failure” is something normal, it won’t affect me :-}"
Drive day 1 sales, increasing your chance of getting featured as a "hot new release", increasing visibility and trying to ride the recommendation algorithm.
Sadly Steam encourages everyone to do this - if you don't get high enough in the rankings at launch you basically won't make any money, plus everyone on Steam is super accustomed to getting everything at a discount.
The market is far too crowded to rely entirely on the steam store for your exposure.
I'd like to know what the numbers are like for indie devs with their own twitch channel who constantly stream the development process, establishing a fan base throughout the year(s) of development before releasing on steam.
The market has always been too crowded, unless we are talking about the early Atari 2600 days.
Being a game dev is akin to music, acting, whatever arts related.
It will cost blood, sweets and tears, full of ups and downs, and only an handful will manage to keep going at it their whole life.
Just like other arts, it doesn't mean people just give up, rather be aware it isn't just because they like playing on their games console every single day, that they will make it on the industry.
Getting visibility within Steam itself is still probably the most effective way of increasing sales numbers - generally being featured/recommended within the platform is profoundly more effective than more organic marketing efforts (unless you really go viral on social media, for example).
Discoverability and viewership numbers for game dev streamers on Twitch are really poor. Of course it can have value as a marketing initiative, but you can also grind that for months / years without seeing a significant effect on sales - the return on time investment is probably not great. Whereas getting onto the front page of Steam (as part of some seasonal event, for example) can do more for you in a single day than months/years of streaming or social media.
I wasn't clear enough in my comment; it's to crowded to just toss your game on the Steam store and expect it to magically generate worthwhile sales.
You're entirely correct about being featured/recommended, and there are ways to game the platform at your release to amplify these effects.
But my basic point stands; you can't just toss a game on Steam and expect good results.
Between the low barrier to entry on the store ($100) and engines like unity/gamemaker enabling basically anyone to have something to toss on the store, it's overflowing with shovelware. How many reskinned game engine tutorials alone are out there for sale as games? It's a complete mess.
I've been tempted to start streaming the development of my game on Twitch, but it's somewhat unnatural for me to do so (tried it a couple of times so far, been putting off doing it again for like four months now) ...but it also seems like one of the only ways to build an audience for your games ahead of time nowadays.
I did one of those last October[1] (probably too long, but it was my first one). I need to get in the habit of doing them more regularly, but I don't make enough progress to do one every week right now. I have been meaning to do another for the past four months and been putting it off though.
Still, as a potential customer, I don't find it very encouraging. You don't see jokes like these for products that don't have bugs or do have decent graphics. Not a very good idea to draw attention to your shortcomings, even if they're expected.
Congratulations on commercializing the game. Are you a one person operation? I know how hard can it be to develop, publish, deal with game stores... This is a great deal that you were able to launch and sell. Kudos
one thing, to applaud the author is they have the right attitude. when launching internet products, don't expect them to make money. that liberates you from all sort of problems and stress.
I don’t think the problem is that the game is a niche game, there are ways to break even with niche games and just copying what everyone else is doing is not exactly a receipt for success.
In my opinion these is what OP could have done differently:
- The game lacks (an obvious) unique hook. Just replacing coffee with mate is not enough of a hook for me, and I was raised in a family that drinks Chimarrão.
- $5 is too cheap for a niche game.
I think would help a lot if you check the Jeff Vogel advices on creating and marketing niche games. He has a lot insight on creating games that only a tiny amount of people want
Can't speak for parent commenter, but there is a nugget of supreme wisdom in the remark nonetheless. Gamedev is notoriously punishing and mentally grueling. Pushing through these roadblock moments CAN lead to huge runaway successes if the market timing is right.
I'm in a field in no way orthogonal to gaming, but I can attest myself that pushing though the moments I -wanted- to quit the most, were the moments that yielded the most amount of advantage to me. I knew I could go further, work harder, learn to be smarter, because I knew that I had persevered where most others would've called it quits.
I've heard this before, mainly from "hustle culture" folks, but have never witnessed it in real life. I've followed quite a few people, both online and IRL, who have persevered through repeated failure, motivated by "passion" and convinced that success was around the corner.
Almost none of them achieved success. Instead, they ended up burned, jaded and in a few cases even genuinely suicidal.
As someone else mentioned in the thread, the kid is clearly talented. He has released 10 games on five different platforms at age 22 with no assistance whatsoever. That is genuinely exceptional, and he is without doubt in the top 10% of game dev grads.
I'm not arguing that you should quit after one attempt either (even successful designers fail maybe 50% of the time) but it seems irresponsible to suggest 10 failures in a row are a sign of success to come and he just needs to eat shit for the next 5 years.
Far more likely than not, the repeated failures suggest that his talents would be better applied elsewhere.
The biggest problem with "hustle culture" is that they praise each others effort rather than results. Like in this case, 10 failed games is a lot of effort but aren't good results. And if you look at the reviews and where he got traffic on this game they mostly come from other gamedev communities, meaning he sold to other developer hustlers interested in his journey rather than to real users.
At this stage what he needs to do is take a step back, stop seeking praise from other developers and instead focus on making a quality game he thinks users actually would want to play. Releasing games you know will fail doesn't teach you much, especially if it is your tenth one. Or he can pivot to becoming a gamedev influencer selling tutorials or monetizing views, if that is what he wants he is on the right track.
"meaning he sold to other developer"
No, I was marketing the game on yerba mate groups etc + Argentina gaming and many other places. I don't market my games to game devs because they are not my target :-}
I'm not posting info about my games on dev groups or anything, just from time to time, I'm back with my stats, but those stats are before posting about the game to dev groups, so sales comes from players interested in the game :-}
I understand you're coming from a compassionate place, you don't want to see them burn out, I've burnt out and it sucks.
You can make good money selling your time, but maybe it's not about money for them? By all other measures this game was a great personal success. At this point the dev is competent and successfully releasing games, they just haven't been commercially successful. Now would be a terrible time to give up.
My advice would be to run out of options first, then go work at that "elsewhere". Once you get settled into a career it can be really hard to step back out into solo dev.
I'm not going to refute the rest of your comment, as it's a valid opinion and I'd just be repeating myself, but in regards to this:
>Once you get settled into a career it can be really hard to step back out into solo dev.
I don't think that's true in and of itself. A lot of people struggle to adapt to the financial uncertainty of flying solo later in life, but that's only because they have a high-cost lifestyle and minimal savings.
I quit my day job last year, a few months before my first daughter was born, to run my online businesses full-time. The fact that my wife and I had saved huge chunks of our pay (100k+ in the bank), in addition to the fact that the businesses were already running at half-steam meant that the transition was stress-free and seamless.
He's 22, has a great attitude and work ethic, and has shown remarkable resourcefulness in releasing this game as a commercial offering (presumably running the operation by himself).
Doesn't sound like sarcasm to me. This kid is going places.
no way, this dev sounds AMAZING. Even if they don't work out what works at this rate they're bound to stumble upon it because they just keep going. It's really impressive.
I think the only sarcasm is around the world "failures". No one creates a super successful creative-work their first time, or usually even their first dozen times. You have to keep at it until you master it, and then also get a bit lucky.
Nobody creates a good product they first time they try, but lots of people don't commercialize those failures and instead iterates until they have something they don't feel is shit so their first commercial release becomes a success. I don't see what you'd learn by putting things you know will fail in front of paying customers just so they can point out the obvious shortcomings, all you do is waste time and energy.
In this day and age having over 400 actually paying customers is a lot! Even having 400 free users would be a lot. Now the question is - do they play the game ? Any number above 1% is good, so if there are 4 players spending a lot of time - it's a good sign. If possible ask them what they think is good about it, then update the marketing material to showcase what is good about the game.
There's a lot of low-quality Unity games on Steam, largely because they automated the new game system so that all it takes to publish a game is paying $100. There are some legitimate game designers putting in effort, but some 'publishers' have hundreds of these games and are often just copies of each other but with different assets.
For anyone doubting how simple this is, you can buy entirely pre-made games and template games in the Unity Asset Store for anywhere from $25-$500 depending on how polished the asset is.
They are wannabes because it makes the author of the parent comment feels better.
Anyone who isn't objectively the best at something is probably automatically a wannabe. So at the end of the day it's just a wannabe calling everyone else wannabe. Don't waste time on understanding people like that.
That's a mentality that broods on the internet and it's so counter-productive, you see it in all kinds of groups. Your car only producing 400hp not 1000hp? Lame. Not deadlifting 300kg? Not good enough. Not making 6 figures? Why even work!
I think it's because what tends to get 'promoted' on the internet is exceptional situations, I think people can get caught up in the thought that exceptionalism is all that's good enough. Spend enough time in real communities though and you realise that the world is full of people having a blast just doing their best, and that there are a million different ways to enjoy and be successful at different hobbies/careers.
I don't think that's a reasonable analysis. Wannabes want to achieve notoriety but aren't prepared to, or can't, do what it takes to get there. A subjective analysis clearly shows they're not going to "make it" - and if they did some introspection they would realise it too. That's a wannabe, and the World does seem to be chock-full of wannabes.
Some people just want to make great games, don't care about getting famous, etc.; they're not wannabes.
Some people want to do a job, get paid; they're not wannabes.
Some want to be famous and rich, and have the chops to go with it; they're not wannabes.
@Karsteki, I don't think it's intended as an insult, it's more "being realistic, most people making games won't succeed because 'everyone' wants to succeed and most don't really have what it takes".
The moment you said "subjective analysis" already invalidated the rest of your argument and supported what I said -- you are just saying it's okay to use you a set standards that are not universally accepted to judge others. It's probably not your intention to come across that way, but it is exactly this type of thinking that brews toxicity.
The OP of that "wannabe" comment could have finished the sentence without saying anything about wannabes and still get the same point across. So why bother calling everyone else who can't get their games paid wannabes?
Do we have any evidence that these wannabes are not "some people just want to make great games, don't care about getting famous"? What's wrong with wanting to become famous as a goal in the first place? Who decides who has the chops and who doesn't?
You simply can't unless you are objectively the best at something. The complexity in deciding what is objectively the best makes such efforts futile, and therefore everyone who thinks it's okay to call others wannabes is just conveniently glossing over the fact that they are also wannabes by someone else's standard.
I threw $5 your way because I wanted to support you. That said, some feedback:
1. The price is too high. I'm sorry, I know this sounds cheap at $5. But you're competing with the entire world of iOS games. For free, I can get endless kinds of games like this, but with in game purchases. Some of those, like Cardinal Quest 2, are actually amazing and the ingame purchases don't get in the way at all.
I think if you priced it at $2 you might get more revenue in the long run.
2. I don't know what the hell a Yerba Mate is. It does say in the description that it's some kind of coffee, but I honestly had to force myself to buy this. I'd rather buy a coffee than a game about coffee.
I feel guilty saying these things, because I don't know if my feelings here are representative or not. Maybe a lot of people feel that $5 is the right price point and that a game about coffee management is compelling. Either way, I want to support gamedevs, so I might try playing this just for kicks.
> But you're competing with the entire world of iOS games.
I am not convinced these are overlapping markets. The Venn diagram probably looks pretty close to two independent circles. I play games on Steam and also own an iPhone. I never play anything on my phone, because it's a completely different experience. I think PC games and iOS games are both games in the same way as PC games and hide&seek are both games. That is to say we use the same term for them, but they're not at all the same in regards to what I'm looking for.
It's not just me either. This line of separation exists in my whole social circle as far as I can tell. None of my PC gaming buddies play mobile games and everyone I know that plays mobile games don't play PC games.
As someone who has made a fair bit more in donations than OP just from building community tools for a reasonably popular mobile game (still peanuts compared to the time poured in though), I probably have a bit more anecdata to draw from.
In my experience, a not insignificant percentage of avid players of said mobile game active on Discord are also players of PC/console titles. These players may not represent the mobile game market at large, but they are overwhelmingly moderate to big spenders compared to the F2P crowd out there, so I’d say they are a good representation of a slice of the more valuable market segment. So, yes, there’s an overlap, and I imagine “Yerba Mate Tycoon”’s addressable PC market would be even more likely to play a comparable mobile game than the average AAA action/shooter/etc. market.
My game is PC game, when I will release on IOS/Android the price will be lower on that markets.
On PC $5 is good price, not too low (like $1 or $2), not too high like $20-$30. Feedback from players mostly say, that the game price should be higher.
Not sure if it has been mentioned yet, but I think the main reason why this title failed is the title. Most people probably never heard of "yerba mate", so to them, the title sounds like some kind of weird mating simulator.
These numbers are actually promising. 400 sales in early access for a 'niche' game would open the door for a few publishers out there. And as it stands this game has momentum behind it, NOT an easy thing to accomplish.
And further more, the steam page has quite a few problems that are easily fixed and would drives sales in a positive direction. Add some streamer outreach to the mix and this could do well enough to fund their next game. Just perhaps not well enough to satisfy the developers ambitions. Yet.
I would love to have this momentum on my own (very) niche game. Its is also on early access, interesting premise, zero marketing budget, and so on. Its numbers are nowhere near as promising as Yerba Mate Tycoon. Its a rare thing to click with an audience and YMT has done so.
To the Developer, keep going. Keep that mindset of honouring your customers its rare in games and of value to the gamers. Spend more time on you store page and promoting, and release it.
It will be worth it.
Thanks, I don't want to seem like I'm shilling with any of my comments. This is Kanso, a relaxing game that invites the player to slowdown and find a moment of Zen:
I believe pricing is one of the most important decisions any business can make, and $5 does not make any sense to me.
You're probably betting that this is a niche game that likely will take you more time than its worth in sales: in that case, you need to increase the price as much as you can without it looking absurd in comparison to triple A titles, so maybe $30 or so.
If not much happens, you accept that there is no way any meaningful number of people will be interested in this game for the price of a steak dinner, so you go for the "penny crowd" instead: sell the game for $1 during a steam sale and get free attention from a >95% discount.
Ideally you can spend this in-between time fixing some bugs and just keeping the game "alive" so it doesn't look like a complete cash grab, but on the other hand you should never feel obligated to put your time into something that isn't, and likely never will, be paying you back.
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[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 244 ms ] threadAlso, the video is funny, but it really doesn't tell us anything about what you do. It doesn't show us the consequences of any of your decisions.
Anyhow, I wish the developer all the best. I hope sales to pick up and that they enjoyed making the game.
How did such a scene work? Did you have get togethers to talk about your Yerba Mate experiences? Are there Yearba Mate VIPs you worship together? Did you have Yerba Mate merchandise?
Also, I wonder how many people knew what spelunking was before Spelunky!
I think it may depend on your region. Obviously it is very well known in South America (I first became acquainted with it about 25 years ago after being friends with someone from South America who drank tereré, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terer%C3%A9, all the time), but now I see these, https://guayaki.com/our-product-family/, all over Whole Foods in Texas, so somebody must be drinking them here.
Tea Tycoon, I'd have to presume has been done? Otherwise, it sounds like something people would go for.
Some reasons:
* If anyone were to search for such a game, this will be the top result by default, so there might be a trickle of sales over time that just doesn't stop.
* This game may trend on some relevant subreddit/twitter clique/forum and get later sales boosts from that.
* If you have a Yerba Mate blog or podcast, this is basically the only game you can even feature if you wanted to talk about something new.
My next step would be to make a spreadsheet of anything Yerba Mate -related that could possibly feature the game and contact them all.
As an aside, me personally, I don't like early access games; I'd rather wait till the game is finished. I'm probably not the only one thinking like that. So I find it difficult to guess how different the sales projectory would be if it didn't have the "early access" status, but with any luck the creator will tell us once he has released V1.0 :)
Not a fan. I mean I get Betas and access to things say a month or so before launch. But not during active development.
[1]: https://steamdb.info/app/1404560/graphs/
So based on that I am not surprised that video games on Steam can be expected to have a similar number of reviews relative to number of owners.
Typically I expect a video on YouTube to have about 10% votes and about 1% comments.
Do all reviews on Steam need to include text or can simple thumbs up/down be given without any text? Haven't used Steam in a while so I don't remember.
this is known as the 90-9-1 rule: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule_(Internet_culture)
My game sold about 20k units on Steam and has 165 reviews, so there’s one anecdotal point of data.
Now, I'll wishlist them rather than impulse buy them and then reconsider it when it comes out of early access.
This is very confusing
You should have mentioned something actually bad like month day year.
The US always seem to resist sensible things when it comes to units and formats: it is a mystery to me why they are so attached to imperial units, when the rest of the world sans Liberia and Myanmar are using metric units (and Myanmar planned to leave this shameful club before the recent coup).
I don’t think the US resisting things is so mysterious. The US is a large country that largely defines its own culture (and exports that culture to the world). The average american isn’t going to switch systems unless they have a VERY good reason to. For the fields where it matters (ex. the sciences) they’ve largely already switched.
I'm not saying 'feel bad', here... more along the lines of 'lower your expectations'. Unless you have a big publishing house backing you, marketing money being spent, your first title isn't going to be profitable... and that's before you consider the type of game it is.
I got even post about my other game stats: https://donislawdev.com/earnings-and-statistics-from-my-8-ga...
All released.
It's maybe too trivial for steam but there's certainly potential to make a game out of it. Add a timer. Add some multiplayer challenge. Add a power or two (dash forward). Make some levels to swim through in increasing difficulty and that's a definitive puzzle/platform game.
This article does serve as yet another good reminder though that platforms are where the money is and that making content is no way to make a living. Make your fuck you money first, THEN make content using the skills you developed along the way. You'll have something to make content about, too, having been out and about in the world to make your nut
Thorson isn't a good example here, because Celeste was only their 2nd commercial game, and their 1st was Towerfall, which was successful.
I'd say their expectations were pretty low, and despite that they've got a wonderfully positive attitude about the whole thing. Maybe don't be so quick to rain on that.
From the blog
"Before the game launch, I knew that game will be a failure. I was expecting most sales from Latin America (low price), my all previous mobile games were a failure, wishlist number was low + in the first month of early access (outside of Steam) I sold 0 games copies. So, there were no success indicators. I got no problem with it, everything is running according to my plan, If my whole life is a failure, then a “failure” is something normal, it won’t affect me :-}"
Why would you launch with a discount?
I'd like to know what the numbers are like for indie devs with their own twitch channel who constantly stream the development process, establishing a fan base throughout the year(s) of development before releasing on steam.
Being a game dev is akin to music, acting, whatever arts related.
It will cost blood, sweets and tears, full of ups and downs, and only an handful will manage to keep going at it their whole life.
Just like other arts, it doesn't mean people just give up, rather be aware it isn't just because they like playing on their games console every single day, that they will make it on the industry.
Discoverability and viewership numbers for game dev streamers on Twitch are really poor. Of course it can have value as a marketing initiative, but you can also grind that for months / years without seeing a significant effect on sales - the return on time investment is probably not great. Whereas getting onto the front page of Steam (as part of some seasonal event, for example) can do more for you in a single day than months/years of streaming or social media.
You're entirely correct about being featured/recommended, and there are ways to game the platform at your release to amplify these effects.
But my basic point stands; you can't just toss a game on Steam and expect good results.
Between the low barrier to entry on the store ($100) and engines like unity/gamemaker enabling basically anyone to have something to toss on the store, it's overflowing with shovelware. How many reskinned game engine tutorials alone are out there for sale as games? It's a complete mess.
I've been tempted to start streaming the development of my game on Twitch, but it's somewhat unnatural for me to do so (tried it a couple of times so far, been putting off doing it again for like four months now) ...but it also seems like one of the only ways to build an audience for your games ahead of time nowadays.
[1]: https://youtu.be/0IAx9fsBuus
> New update = new bugs
> Poor graphic and sounds
I have to say the first two "features" aren't doing you any favors.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1404560/Yerba_Mate_Tycoon...
The joke is misplaced. It has nothing to do in the official description of the game, among the first lines read by customers.
Personally I thought this was some sort of typo or weird expression, because the developer doesn't write English well.
In my opinion these is what OP could have done differently:
- The game lacks (an obvious) unique hook. Just replacing coffee with mate is not enough of a hook for me, and I was raised in a family that drinks Chimarrão.
- $5 is too cheap for a niche game.
I think would help a lot if you check the Jeff Vogel advices on creating and marketing niche games. He has a lot insight on creating games that only a tiny amount of people want
I'm in a field in no way orthogonal to gaming, but I can attest myself that pushing though the moments I -wanted- to quit the most, were the moments that yielded the most amount of advantage to me. I knew I could go further, work harder, learn to be smarter, because I knew that I had persevered where most others would've called it quits.
Hopefully that's what they mean.
Almost none of them achieved success. Instead, they ended up burned, jaded and in a few cases even genuinely suicidal.
As someone else mentioned in the thread, the kid is clearly talented. He has released 10 games on five different platforms at age 22 with no assistance whatsoever. That is genuinely exceptional, and he is without doubt in the top 10% of game dev grads.
I'm not arguing that you should quit after one attempt either (even successful designers fail maybe 50% of the time) but it seems irresponsible to suggest 10 failures in a row are a sign of success to come and he just needs to eat shit for the next 5 years.
Far more likely than not, the repeated failures suggest that his talents would be better applied elsewhere.
At this stage what he needs to do is take a step back, stop seeking praise from other developers and instead focus on making a quality game he thinks users actually would want to play. Releasing games you know will fail doesn't teach you much, especially if it is your tenth one. Or he can pivot to becoming a gamedev influencer selling tutorials or monetizing views, if that is what he wants he is on the right track.
You can make good money selling your time, but maybe it's not about money for them? By all other measures this game was a great personal success. At this point the dev is competent and successfully releasing games, they just haven't been commercially successful. Now would be a terrible time to give up.
My advice would be to run out of options first, then go work at that "elsewhere". Once you get settled into a career it can be really hard to step back out into solo dev.
>Once you get settled into a career it can be really hard to step back out into solo dev.
I don't think that's true in and of itself. A lot of people struggle to adapt to the financial uncertainty of flying solo later in life, but that's only because they have a high-cost lifestyle and minimal savings.
I quit my day job last year, a few months before my first daughter was born, to run my online businesses full-time. The fact that my wife and I had saved huge chunks of our pay (100k+ in the bank), in addition to the fact that the businesses were already running at half-steam meant that the transition was stress-free and seamless.
Doesn't sound like sarcasm to me. This kid is going places.
Is this sarcasm? Because that's generally now how things work.
1) create overpromising marketing campaign/kickstarter for a MMO
2) slap together some random assets
3) ???
4) receive VC
5) profit..
[0] https://www.pcgamer.com/dreamworld-infinite-world-mmo-kickst...
Anyone who isn't objectively the best at something is probably automatically a wannabe. So at the end of the day it's just a wannabe calling everyone else wannabe. Don't waste time on understanding people like that.
I think it's because what tends to get 'promoted' on the internet is exceptional situations, I think people can get caught up in the thought that exceptionalism is all that's good enough. Spend enough time in real communities though and you realise that the world is full of people having a blast just doing their best, and that there are a million different ways to enjoy and be successful at different hobbies/careers.
Just because we all tried, doesn't mean we should all be rewarded and congratulated for trying. Results matter.
So, balance somewhere between the two is best.
Some people just want to make great games, don't care about getting famous, etc.; they're not wannabes.
Some people want to do a job, get paid; they're not wannabes.
Some want to be famous and rich, and have the chops to go with it; they're not wannabes.
@Karsteki, I don't think it's intended as an insult, it's more "being realistic, most people making games won't succeed because 'everyone' wants to succeed and most don't really have what it takes".
The OP of that "wannabe" comment could have finished the sentence without saying anything about wannabes and still get the same point across. So why bother calling everyone else who can't get their games paid wannabes?
Do we have any evidence that these wannabes are not "some people just want to make great games, don't care about getting famous"? What's wrong with wanting to become famous as a goal in the first place? Who decides who has the chops and who doesn't?
You simply can't unless you are objectively the best at something. The complexity in deciding what is objectively the best makes such efforts futile, and therefore everyone who thinks it's okay to call others wannabes is just conveniently glossing over the fact that they are also wannabes by someone else's standard.
Like, I get that those people believe they’re delivering the next divine gift, but…
How about dreamers?
1. The price is too high. I'm sorry, I know this sounds cheap at $5. But you're competing with the entire world of iOS games. For free, I can get endless kinds of games like this, but with in game purchases. Some of those, like Cardinal Quest 2, are actually amazing and the ingame purchases don't get in the way at all.
I think if you priced it at $2 you might get more revenue in the long run.
2. I don't know what the hell a Yerba Mate is. It does say in the description that it's some kind of coffee, but I honestly had to force myself to buy this. I'd rather buy a coffee than a game about coffee.
I feel guilty saying these things, because I don't know if my feelings here are representative or not. Maybe a lot of people feel that $5 is the right price point and that a game about coffee management is compelling. Either way, I want to support gamedevs, so I might try playing this just for kicks.
I am not convinced these are overlapping markets. The Venn diagram probably looks pretty close to two independent circles. I play games on Steam and also own an iPhone. I never play anything on my phone, because it's a completely different experience. I think PC games and iOS games are both games in the same way as PC games and hide&seek are both games. That is to say we use the same term for them, but they're not at all the same in regards to what I'm looking for.
It's not just me either. This line of separation exists in my whole social circle as far as I can tell. None of my PC gaming buddies play mobile games and everyone I know that plays mobile games don't play PC games.
In my experience, a not insignificant percentage of avid players of said mobile game active on Discord are also players of PC/console titles. These players may not represent the mobile game market at large, but they are overwhelmingly moderate to big spenders compared to the F2P crowd out there, so I’d say they are a good representation of a slice of the more valuable market segment. So, yes, there’s an overlap, and I imagine “Yerba Mate Tycoon”’s addressable PC market would be even more likely to play a comparable mobile game than the average AAA action/shooter/etc. market.
On PC $5 is good price, not too low (like $1 or $2), not too high like $20-$30. Feedback from players mostly say, that the game price should be higher.
You can verify this by comparing the sales by country to the number of searches for the term "yerba mate" by country: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=yerba%20mate The distributions are very similar.
And further more, the steam page has quite a few problems that are easily fixed and would drives sales in a positive direction. Add some streamer outreach to the mix and this could do well enough to fund their next game. Just perhaps not well enough to satisfy the developers ambitions. Yet.
I would love to have this momentum on my own (very) niche game. Its is also on early access, interesting premise, zero marketing budget, and so on. Its numbers are nowhere near as promising as Yerba Mate Tycoon. Its a rare thing to click with an audience and YMT has done so.
To the Developer, keep going. Keep that mindset of honouring your customers its rare in games and of value to the gamers. Spend more time on you store page and promoting, and release it. It will be worth it.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1454650/Kanso/
Working on a game myself, but I'm nowhere near ready to put it on Steam yet, even on Early Access.
You're probably betting that this is a niche game that likely will take you more time than its worth in sales: in that case, you need to increase the price as much as you can without it looking absurd in comparison to triple A titles, so maybe $30 or so.
If not much happens, you accept that there is no way any meaningful number of people will be interested in this game for the price of a steak dinner, so you go for the "penny crowd" instead: sell the game for $1 during a steam sale and get free attention from a >95% discount.
Ideally you can spend this in-between time fixing some bugs and just keeping the game "alive" so it doesn't look like a complete cash grab, but on the other hand you should never feel obligated to put your time into something that isn't, and likely never will, be paying you back.
But definitely not in early access and definitely not until it reaches similar quality/content.
If one tries to make a money grab as you suggest, gamers will obliterate the game with bad reviews. A few bad reviews and the game is doomed forever.