We have Youtube premium, where it is possible to pay a monthly fee not to have adds. Why isn't there an analogous version of this for the Google search engine?
There's still long-term brand value in just being the biggest ad delivery machine that can bring eyeballs to your ads from any potential customer group.
Once you remove a portion of those eyeballs, you might make more money short-term, but long-term you might end up in difficult conversations with large advertisers.
> Youtube Premium is only ~$10/month, does Google really make that much more with ads?
Yes! Already their average per-user revenue was 21 USD per user per month in 2018 (couldn't find newer data) [0]. Furthermore, the first people to sign up would be the richest folks, those who are the most interesting to advertisers. Meaning: they are worth way more than 21 USD per month to Google.
To compensate, the price would have to be even higher. If only 5% of Google's userbase signed up, and those 5% are, on average, worth to Google 5 times as people from the general population, then you'd have to pay 100 USD per month for getting rid of ads across all Google products. That number would also have to grow at least as quickly as the ad revenue for it to make sense for Google to do it.
I'd pay for this, if it also applied to other google products. In particular, google maps has become unpleasant to use lately, with a lot of extra stuff drawn on top of the actual map. I've switched to apple maps, for this reason. I wonder how many others have done the same.
I think you are right. If Google thought even a small minority of people would subscribe to it, too small to make a dent in revenue, Google should do it if it is enough to show advertisers that "inventory" is limited and to use it as a bargaining chip.
I am sure companies like WPP are pressuring Google even today to open up more and share all kinds of data with them. It is not in Google's best interest to do so but how do you fend off attacks like the adpocalypse if you can't show advertisers that you don't need them as much as they need you?
dude. how can you stand an ad in 2022? i have been using ublock origin everywhere since it was released, abp before that. i have a pi-hole at home. on my android i often use apps like blokada.
the other day i had visited a friend at home and their tv was at full blast. the ads felt really jarring/irritating/obnoxious to a point i requested them to just turn the tv off.
then another day i saw a coworker on his laptop, edge opened on homepage with big 2000's style banner ads, sidebar ads, full page ads and they were just keeping the page open because "eh, dont care".
try to use ublock origin on your browser for a week and then the next week without it.
I have ublock origin. I actually disable it at times because it's killing some of the ads that I do like. Google is an excellent example, where the ads are often literally the thing I'm looking for.
Because you will end up with no-result for mostly any search input, except of few situations when you are searching something like "hackernews" on input and getting "news.ycombinator.com" on output.
Too expensive. Google makes, on average, smtg like $50/user/year or something (not an accurate number). Now obviously this varies, so some people are much more valuable, and some are less valuable. The value depends on many things, but one of the biggest factor is purchasing power.
Now -- if you're willing and able to pay eg. $10/month for Google Premium, then you likely worth much more than the average user. So the more you're willing to pay the more you worth as an advertisement target. I am not sure where those curves meet, but I presume it'd be a lot.
I know I'd pay just to never see an ad again because I don't care about them at all. If one slips through the cracks I do whatever I can to suppress it as soon as possible while actively denying any form of sensorial engagement with it. I suppose this is true for many people and paying might be more convenient than using adblockers, installing alternative apps, using PiHoles...
Using adblock is indeed very convenient. Enable browser extension and forget about all web annoyances. Calm and peece.
Google Ad Premium disables google ads only (or most of them?), while other ad nets (avg more than 80 cookies on every major news site!) will continue to annoy.
Ublock Origin and never see an ad again. I can't believe there are still people who don't do this. You can even do it on your mobile device if you use android and firefox.
The Android 'equivalent' is just using the uBlock Origin add-on in Firefox as usual, not some new Apple-invented category of app and hamstrung browsers that are all basically Safari.
It's open source. You can verify whether or not they're doing anything nefarious with your browsing history. You can then package it yourself and run it!
Or, instead of digging through every line of source code and packaging it myself, I can use an operating system where the vendor designed a content blocking framework that is privacy focused by default and that works with third party apps that use web views.
The data processing consent popups on Google properties aren't blockable by this because they are JS-based and integrate with the rest of the page's JS code, so the only way to "defuse" them is to run active JS code provided by the blocker. The declarative framework can't do this by design.
And if you really want to, you can run 1Blocker scripts within Safari that can do the same type of thing. You have to go into Settings and you get a huge privacy warning.
And this also works with embedded web views - unlike with Android
Yeah, because you're just taking Apple's word that they aren't being nefarious. You can quite literally see for yourself whether or not ublock origin is. It's like arguing that being able to film the police shouldnt be allowed because they promise to be good.
Towards open source freedom is my goal, not towards Tim Cook's bonus. nvidia just moved more towards open sourcing their drivers. You think that's out of kindness? No, it's because AMD and Intel have open drivers and nvidia is scared to lose market share to them.
Vote with your wallet and we can have a better future. I don't care if it's iOS, Android, or Linux! Just that it's actually open.
Nvidia no more moved toward open source than Google with the play store. It still depends on binary closed source blobs.
I assure you that Nvidia is not going to lose market share to Intel in the GPU race. Even Apple is creating chipsets Thad trounce Intel in graphics performance.
By “embedded web view”, I don’t mean when you click on a link it switches to another app. I mean something like an RSS reader where you view a web page inside the hosted app.
> Mozilla uses GeckoView to power Firefox for Android, Firefox Reality, Firefox Focus, and other Android apps. GeckoView serves a similar purpose to Android's built-in WebView, but it has its own APIs and is not a drop in replacement.
You can replace the default web view, although I believe it requires root access. I've been using https://www.bromite.org/system_web_view for a while and it works pretty well.
And android is actually getting worse, too, not better. And Firefox is slowly knee capping the freedom (presumably because they're all Apple users haha)
Its why it's important for folks like yourself who are pro-Apple to push for Apple to open up. That way we can have the best of both worlds (if you believe the marketing, like it would appear you do). I'll use the most open device at the end of the day.
You can now run arbitrary web extensions in Safari. 1Blocker has the standard Content Blocking framework that’s been supported 7 years where it just gives Safari a list of rules and it supports embedded Safari extensions where it does have access to your browsing history.
You don’t just get a pop up that allows you to enable it. You have to go into settings and get a scary warning.
> Good luck with using that “equivalent” in an embedded web view.
It works, so thanks. Maybe you're referring to the impossibility to access the plugin's settings from the embedded web view. But if it's a site you've visited before and configured to your preference, then it takes effect in the same way there as in full FF.
> iOS content blockers tell Safari what to block and don’t have access to where you go.
If I tell it 'block scripts from example.org on news.ycombinator.com' then it's a pretty good bet that I visit news.ycombinator.com.
Right, I realise iOS content blockers aren't that powerful, so it's hypothetical. ;)
I don't know, I'm just reporting my experience as a user. I don't develop for Android or know anything about what Mozilla says about it.
Feel free to reproduce it yourself: block third party by default (for example), open some broken page, observe it as such; 'open in browser' from 3-dot menu; amend settings to allow whatever it needs; back out, observe it functional.
Open in the browser is not the same thing as an embedded web view. Take something like an RSS reader. You click on the link and it shows you the web page inside the app without taking you outside of the app.
At some point, you have to trust someone. I trust uBlock Origin to not be malicious and so do plenty of people. Ideally you'd want to pin versions and always stay a few versions behind so that an overnight "rug pull" where the extension becomes compromised doesn't affect you.
The problem with iOS' declarative blocking framework is that it's not powerful enough to deal with more advanced ads.
What a crazy thing to say. Do the konami dance on Android to set your device to developer mode, and it literally gives you a root shell on a Linux system with a completely open source OS that you can tweak, complile, and reflash yourself. That whole process is simple enough that any given 10 year old can figure it out in a weekend and have complete control over their device if they want it, no fancy exploits or anything required.
The fact that Windows 10 has zero protections WRT physical or app security is not something to be proud of.
You can't root or re-flash all Windows devices either.
It's an open platform, so of course there are a ton of bad actors in the space who are going to add their own garbage and try to prevent people from removing it, but if you buy a phone from a reputable source, it's going to let you put it into dev mode. Obviously don't buy the malware encrusted garbage sold directly from shady telecom companies etc.
I didn't mean an equivalent to iOS's content blockers specifically, but an ad block solution in general. I don't use Android, so I'm not familiar with what's available.
and hamstrung browsers that are all basically Safari
Content blockers work in original Safari. Which part don’t you like? Content blockers as an app, safari itself, or inability to load third party js into every page you visit?
I wish PC browsers had something like that, because while I trust uBlock Origin (and others, e.g. Bitwarden), there’s always a chance someone hacks into their repo. Modular integration - separate Bitwarden and Adguard apps - is objectively better for these use cases than just pouring some javascripts into every website.
I just mean that 'content blockers' are a solution to a problem of Apple's own creation -
> Content blockers work in original Safari.
I know, what I mean there is that all the browsers on iOS are only superficially not Safari; which is the only reason 'content blockers' work in anything 'not' Safari.
You have to use Safari on iOS anyway, because the only permitted web view implementation is Safari’s. Firefox/Opera/Chrome on iOS is just Safari in a trench coat.
There is Bromite, a Chromium fork -Google +Adblock.
Also you can change your DNS server permanently to an adblocking one like ControlD or NextDNS, iOS hilariously enough only allows this on a per-network basis.
There are ad blockers on iOS, too. They are implemented in such a way that they can not spy on you—they simply provide a „block list“ that is executed by the browser. Works pretty well in my experience.
Ultimately, you have to trust someone. Unless you write your own compilers in machine code, and get the source, review it, etc. you have to trust someone along the chain. Hell, Intel/AMD could be fucking with you via the CPU.
If I have to trust someone, I trust the multi-trillion dollar company built on privacy. If they are found to be spying on people, the hit to the wealth of everyone who works there will be massive.
Made me laugh. For nine month I gave a chance to full-time android phone, and every two weeks or so it showed me ads based on what I discussed with my coworker in voice (I mean mouth and ears, not voice messaging) but never googled etc. If Apple does that, they at least pretend not to.
Adguard does the same good job on ios as ublock origin does on a pc. Even on youtube.com. No third-party browsers, no mandatory vpn. Just install it and enable its rules in safari settings.
I'd feel bad if advertising law wasn't a joke, and ads weren't basically an aggressive waste of time/money as a result.
Like man, I always hear "so many people make their living on this" but uh, maybe if false advertising law is practically unenforced and most ads are practically usually lies pushed by the already established winners in their industry...
Which it certainly seems to be, then. I find it hard to feel too bad, especially when people in the advertising business are probably not going to end up street beggars if things suddenly changed.
edit: although that "makes a living" argument may go wayside a little with the inevitable AI-generated, focus-group tested future we'll be living in. Hmm.
I think using an adblocker and uninstalling the YouTube app should be sufficient. The downside being that the playback quality is worse (720p max, I think).
I simply don't use the YouTube app on mobile. I use YouTube via the brave browser which automatically blocks ads. Not the best experience since you can't background videos playing, but it works for me.
You need to jailbreak for that, and there are multiple adblocking tweaks. You can also add the iSponsorBlock tweak in the mix to skip paid video segments.
You can't. And I literally switched to Android specifically because of this reason.
Now I use youtube vanced, and as a bonus it includes sponsorblock that saves me a ton of time while I watch videos. It also plays videos while phone is locked, useful during jogs and working out.
I use Brave Browser. I am always shocked to see how bad the internet is for users without ad blocker. I also totally forgot that YouTube has annoying ads.
Just think about all the times you accidentally click the first result and how much it cost those companies. They probably paid a sum total that's way more than what you're willing to pay in a year.
> So the more you're willing to pay the more you worth as an advertisement target.
So the common wisdom goes. Alternative thought: the more you’re willing to pay to not see ads the likelier you are to block them or never click on them, making you worth less as a target.
Google had a service, now discontinued, that allowed a user to enter into those bids, setting a monthly limit on ad spend. It was for external sites using AdSense, not Google Search, but I thought it was an amazing idea.
> if the user wins the auction, [a thank you message] is placed in the ad space, and the cost of the ad is deducted from the user's monthly contribution. If the user does not win, the winning ad is displayed as normal and the user pays nothing for that slot
Search makes ~$40B per year. They likely have over >3B MAU.
People that would realistically pay for the product - maybe 50M. I think a ~$10/m subscription could make sense.
The problem is - they probably need to offer something beside just being ad free. And I'm not sure what they could possibly add that wouldn't be better suited just improving the product for the other 99% of searchers.
I'd pay more than $10/m for Search if I had to. I pay for YouTube premium to get rid of the ads (and free YouTube Music). But I don't think the search ads are intrusive enough that I'm willing to pay $10 to get rid of them.
Advertising CPMs vary wildly between geographies and demographics. GP’s point is still valid: even if average global revenue is $10/mo/user, the average revenue of the group that would pay $10/mo is likely much higher.
Yeah, I can easily imagine a 90th percentile user in North America is worth closer to $100 per month. Which answers the OP’s question.
And its likely a Pareto curve too.
So a 99th percentile user could be worth $1000 per month, 99.9th percentile worth $10000 per month, etc.
I imagine they would only take the risk to offer such a premium service when they can figure out how to get everyone to upload their payslips and bank account statements.
Advanced and permanent search filters would be nice to have. No longer seeing results from geeksbygeeks, medium or stackoverflow clones when searching for documentation would be great
The problem with paying to not see ads is that now you have made yourself known as a juicier target for advertising -- they know you have enough money to buy frivolous things like a 'no ads' experience. Which makes them want to advertise to you even more.
YouTube Premium is $14.99/month for no YouTube ads for up to 5 people (among other features) so I'm not sure it is really so hard for the curves to meet.
I'm paying for YouTube. I already blocked ads on my desktop computer, but I wanted to use the official (I know third-party apps exist including YouTube vanced) youtube app on Android.
Similarly, I can block ads in web search results in desktop and mobile. But I can't block ads in the Android apps for Google maps and Gmail.
What would I pay to get rid of them. Not much, admittedly. But I would pay more if it was part of an overall package that'd make it easier to pretend Google is not a semi-hostile entity.
Because if google offered it, people that are worried about tracking like myself wouldn't buy it.
Indeed, it would require a google account, and one that is always connected. Basically giving full view of my private life to google and trust that no matter how bad their track record is, from now on they are going to respect it.
I don't trust them to give them that data, and even if I did, I don't trust a gov won't abuse it eventually or something else down the line.
Hence I'd rather not have a google account, and use ad blockers so that the data is just not communicated to them. It should be a constitutional right to do so.
Ideally you would be able to have an extension that says “hey, I’m on example.com/page and I’m not going to load ads. That all you get to know to pay out a portion of my subscription to the website operator”. The issue with this is that Google typically doesn’t have an exclusivity agreement with websites, and header bidding is quite prevalent, so it doesn’t make sense for Google to allow people to pay to remove Google ads if they’re just going to get out-header-bid anyways when someone comes along with Google Premium+no ad blocker and suddenly the website is showing ads from another ad network instead, leading the user to think Google Premium doesn’t work.
And I don’t think most people would buy a Premium offering if all it did was remove results in Google Search; the only people that helps is Google and most people can easily scroll past those even without Adblock.
Of course they would never do this. But it is possible with cryptography to have a system where you can prove that you paid for such service without proving who you are.
Yup. I know some people at Google who just smack their foreheads every time the HN "of course we'd all pay to eliminate ads" narrative shows up. There have been a bunch of attempts at this over time. They've just never got traction and slowly died.
Speculation but: there will be a huge amount of institutional inertia around this. It sure suits a large number of Google employees that "paying for a service" will fail.
Newspapers, tv, and music, are counter-examples to the assertion that people won't pay for things - even when they've previously been free.
Google's main product focus now should be Cloud, the ad debate is long-term done.
> It sure suits a large number of Google employees that "paying for a service" will fail.
Let me get this straight. The idea is that Google has deliberately constructed several different systems over the years to enable micropayments or subscriptions to replace ads with the plan of them failing so they can use this as evidence that the ad model is unstoppable and that people shouldn't try to replace it? And this was done despite knowing that an alternative would make Google more money? And not a single person who was involved in this deliberate sabotage has ever spoken about it?
Come on.
> Newspapers, tv, and music, are counter-examples to the assertion that people won't pay for things - even when they've previously been free.
Newspapers are a dying industry and are filled with ads. TV is filled with ads. Even paid streaming services like Hulu (and soon maybe Netflix) are ad supported. Spotify has an ad-driven free service.
> Google's main product focus now should be Cloud, the ad debate is long-term done.
Ad revenue continues to grow every quarter. Yes, Google obviously wants another similarly sized revenue stream and there are very few domains that can generate that kind of revenue. But "the ad debate is long-term done" is just not based in facts.
I don't think there needs to be a conspiracy. From what I've read about Google (I have never and will never work there), ICs are incentivized to build and ship new stuff, even if it isn't successful, so Google ends up building a bunch of stuff that isn't successful.
It's not at all hard for me to believe that a company that has built, shipped, and killed multiple chat apps has also built and killed multiple subscription and micropayments systems. Then, the employees who are pushing adtech can use those failures as evidence that adtech is the only way.
The same incentive system explains that too, though. The incentive is to ship. Once you've shipped the system, improving it isn't rewarded, so if it isn't immediately viable, who cares, you got your promotion and you can say, "Well we tried".
> From what I've read about Google (I have never and will never work there), ICs are incentivized to build and ship new stuff, even if it isn't successful, so Google ends up building a bunch of stuff that isn't successful.
I work at Google. What you say here is not true.
Yes, Google is indeed often very bad at long term product strategy and has rebooted its chat offerings an embarrassing number of times. But "it shipped, fuck it if it works" is not actually a sufficient justification for promotions.
Interesting, this is not what I've heard, but my sources are obviously secondhand. I'll update my priors in that direction, although it makes whatever Google is doing make even less sense to me.
I think a big problem is that "Google bad" is a very engaging blog post and that, by virtue of being enormous, there are plenty of people who leave the company with bad feelings who are willing to write about it. This leads to a lot of highly visible writing about flaws within Google but largely from the perspective of people who were unhappy.
There are people who struggle to get promoted and leave. A very coarse piece of failed promo feedback is "not enough impact" and people sometimes interpret this as "you must launch new stuff." For actual data, the Core Developer organization has historically had one of the higher promo rates in the company despite being primarily focused on internal tooling, maintenance, and iterative improvements like refactoring and optimization.
I have my own hunches for why Google seems to have such terrible product strategy as a company. There are a few cases where I've seen the actual root cause and, while still being stupid at the end of the day, had nothing to do with promotion or career advancement.
Isn't it telling that few/none of us have heard of this? Maybe these efforts didn't get traction because Google made no effort to let the world know they existed.
I'd be slap bang in the cross hairs of this product. I mooch around online reading stuff like HN in my spare time, and yet have never ever heard of it. From an advertising company.
Is this the upside or the downside of ad blockers? So hard to decide...
I used this when it was announced but it's been a while since I even thought about it. I decided to dig up some old emails and see how it went for me.
Invited and signed up on 2015-04-28, service ended 2017-01-17. I had a $2 monthly reoccurring charge to fund the account, but I just accrued a balance, so I cancelled the charge in 2015-11-15 and that balance lasted until the service ended. In the final email they sent they included some stats:
> Thanks for being a Contributor! Your contribution of $14.01 helped to fund 351 sites! A refund for your remaining balance of -$0.02 is being processed and your account is now closed.
I don't remember it being particularly noticeable, and I think on some sites it would just replace the ads with a banner saying something like "Thanks for being a contributor". I also recall there being tiers / budgets you could set.
Google has a custom search API that comes in two flavors — ad-supported or $5/thousand queries (beyond 100 free queries a day). You can either use their Search Element API (HTML, comes with standard Google Search UI, customizable) or build your own UI with the JSON API.
Obviously you’re talking about a consumer offering, but I just want to point out that paid, ad-free Google Search does exist and is pretty easy to set up.
An interesting portion of this is the Restricted API, which limits the number of sites to 10, but allows an unlimited number of requests at the $5/k rate. There doesn't seem to be any restriction on business use, which seems like a good option for paid, ad-free and anonymized code search, since 95% of the desired results are from three sources: GH, SO and Reddit.
No they don't, you are going to find plenty of horror stories from people who make Google money. Content/app creators, people paying for ads, G-suite customers, Pixel phone buyers, etc...
Maybe it is different for companies literally paying millions of dollars, but don't expect more than bot treatment below that.
Heh, I’d Pay to get better search results like google was a couple of years ago. Maybe a like/dislike button for search results and some machine learning on top of that would do it.
Youtube Premium is a perfect proposition for an easy ad free streaming to TV and to mobile. On Desktop browser adblock extension is efficient enough to cut out the ads.
Google search on the other hand is primarily for desktop and is not a streaming platform that consumes your attention minutes, hence Google Premium has little market with effective adblockers.
I'd rather have the ability to buy a Google Bond for $X that Google must return to me in the event they lock or terminate my account. That way, if their algorithmic classifiers on a whim decide that I'm a bad person and they should lock my account, Google would have a financial incentive to invest up to $X verify that I wasn't the victim of a false positive before pulling the rug out from under me.
It's not so much that they would be desperate to keep the $x; but rather "has had $x posted for Y years" is a strong signal the account warrants careful human review for any flagged issue.
Why do you think that? What kind of nefarious use makes a hundred bucks or more per account and is subtle enough for the ban review to let them keep doing it?
There is no cost to a bad actor in the OP's proposal. If/when the account gets terminated, the money is returned to them. This policy would be worse than useless. No real users would sign up for it, only abusers.
Well the bond will be meaningless if it was only put there yesterday. If it's been there for a while that's a real cost. But true, it's not the full amount unless they do something that makes them owe Google money.
For bad actors, an extra careful review is still going to result in account termination. So, for them, the bonds buy virtually no protection, but it does tie up real money. How many bad actors are going to prefer to loan Google $100 per active account rather than $0 per active account?
Maybe $1000 is reasonable amount both for me and GOOG. BTW they might just not to give you anything anyway, for example if some algo considers you a terrorist who is strictly forbidden to be funded.
Buy some adsense revenue and never cash it out. You would have to be an extra bad person before they consider banning you. If they do it's still dubious to terminate a business relationship while you owe the other person money.
They would kinda not want to go in front of a judge even if he states they are allowed to seize peoples funds without any explanation.
But they will state a reason for doing so. The "incentive to verify" was there. Ofc it doesn't change that it is an evil corp that (if at all possible) you shouldn't get involved with.
> Because we have a need to protect our proprietary detection system, we're unable to provide publishers with any information about their account activity, including any pages, users, or third-party services that might have been involved.
The trial by robot really cracks me up. How is this even legal?
I'm still convinced there is some small / non zero difference between banning free users and banning users that produce revenue but it might just be as insignificant as you make it out to be.
Google doesn’t want to give up its current model of operation. Google as a corporation likes being able to surveil the Earth. Google likes being able to control information. Google likes being (essentially) part of the US state department.
I've been using it for over a month now and it's great. Search results are on par with Google,if not better. (Probably better, subjectively, since I switched mostly due to getting annoyed daily with worsening results. Ignoring my search terms was especially annoying.)
The privacy aspect felt like a bonus, but now I never want to go back.
It requires a login to use and aside from not showing ads, the FAQ makes no promises about not monetizing the per user search history. That's bit of a red flag for me.
Would seem to address those concerns — if the only money coming in is users paying directly, that would seem to preclude selling the data for further monetization. Or are those known weasel words?
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[ 2.0 ms ] story [ 241 ms ] threadIs the value that Google gets from one user having ads really that high?
Youtube Premium is only ~$10/month, does Google really make that much more with ads?
Money made with ads = how much advertisers pay
Money made with ads per user = how much advertisers pay / number of users.
If they average to... $10/user, then it's viable.
Once you remove a portion of those eyeballs, you might make more money short-term, but long-term you might end up in difficult conversations with large advertisers.
Yes! Already their average per-user revenue was 21 USD per user per month in 2018 (couldn't find newer data) [0]. Furthermore, the first people to sign up would be the richest folks, those who are the most interesting to advertisers. Meaning: they are worth way more than 21 USD per month to Google.
To compensate, the price would have to be even higher. If only 5% of Google's userbase signed up, and those 5% are, on average, worth to Google 5 times as people from the general population, then you'd have to pay 100 USD per month for getting rid of ads across all Google products. That number would also have to grow at least as quickly as the ad revenue for it to make sense for Google to do it.
[0]: https://mondaynote.com/the-arpus-of-the-big-four-dwarf-every...
There is the argument that many shopping decisions start with the search, but not sure if there is an order of magnitude difference.
Some Goog ads are also very useful since it’s intent based.
I am sure companies like WPP are pressuring Google even today to open up more and share all kinds of data with them. It is not in Google's best interest to do so but how do you fend off attacks like the adpocalypse if you can't show advertisers that you don't need them as much as they need you?
Edit: spelling
the other day i had visited a friend at home and their tv was at full blast. the ads felt really jarring/irritating/obnoxious to a point i requested them to just turn the tv off.
then another day i saw a coworker on his laptop, edge opened on homepage with big 2000's style banner ads, sidebar ads, full page ads and they were just keeping the page open because "eh, dont care".
try to use ublock origin on your browser for a week and then the next week without it.
Now -- if you're willing and able to pay eg. $10/month for Google Premium, then you likely worth much more than the average user. So the more you're willing to pay the more you worth as an advertisement target. I am not sure where those curves meet, but I presume it'd be a lot.
Google Ad Premium disables google ads only (or most of them?), while other ad nets (avg more than 80 cookies on every major news site!) will continue to annoy.
The catch for iOS is that you have to use Safari, unless the browser has an ad blocker built-in. It won't solve blog spam either.
Besides, if I care about my privacy, why would I want to use an ad blocker that has access to my web browsing history?
iOS content blockers tell Safari what to block and don’t have access to where you go.
> Block Annoyances: blocks cookie notices
And if you really want to, you can run 1Blocker scripts within Safari that can do the same type of thing. You have to go into Settings and you get a huge privacy warning.
And this also works with embedded web views - unlike with Android
Did you also verify that Firefox installed from the App Store was the same as the open source version?
Are you using only open sourced code on your phone or are you using Google provided binaries? Are your drivers open source for your chipset?
If not, you are also using “locked down code”
Vote with your wallet and we can have a better future. I don't care if it's iOS, Android, or Linux! Just that it's actually open.
I assure you that Nvidia is not going to lose market share to Intel in the GPU race. Even Apple is creating chipsets Thad trounce Intel in graphics performance.
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Mobile/GeckoView
> Mozilla uses GeckoView to power Firefox for Android, Firefox Reality, Firefox Focus, and other Android apps. GeckoView serves a similar purpose to Android's built-in WebView, but it has its own APIs and is not a drop in replacement.
So the only way you can actually use your ad blocked system wide is through a series of hacks
https://github.com/bromite/bromite/blob/master/FAQ.md
That’s definitely a lot easier than just…going to the App Store.
Of course when your phone is using an OS that is created by an ad tech company, they aren’t going to make it easy to block ads system wide.
Its why it's important for folks like yourself who are pro-Apple to push for Apple to open up. That way we can have the best of both worlds (if you believe the marketing, like it would appear you do). I'll use the most open device at the end of the day.
You don’t just get a pop up that allows you to enable it. You have to go into settings and get a scary warning.
It works, so thanks. Maybe you're referring to the impossibility to access the plugin's settings from the embedded web view. But if it's a site you've visited before and configured to your preference, then it takes effect in the same way there as in full FF.
> iOS content blockers tell Safari what to block and don’t have access to where you go.
If I tell it 'block scripts from example.org on news.ycombinator.com' then it's a pretty good bet that I visit news.ycombinator.com.
Right, I realise iOS content blockers aren't that powerful, so it's hypothetical. ;)
Feel free to reproduce it yourself: block third party by default (for example), open some broken page, observe it as such; 'open in browser' from 3-dot menu; amend settings to allow whatever it needs; back out, observe it functional.
The problem with iOS' declarative blocking framework is that it's not powerful enough to deal with more advanced ads.
The fact that Windows 10 has zero protections WRT physical or app security is not something to be proud of.
It's an open platform, so of course there are a ton of bad actors in the space who are going to add their own garbage and try to prevent people from removing it, but if you buy a phone from a reputable source, it's going to let you put it into dev mode. Obviously don't buy the malware encrusted garbage sold directly from shady telecom companies etc.
This is bad why exactly?
and hamstrung browsers that are all basically Safari
Content blockers work in original Safari. Which part don’t you like? Content blockers as an app, safari itself, or inability to load third party js into every page you visit?
I wish PC browsers had something like that, because while I trust uBlock Origin (and others, e.g. Bitwarden), there’s always a chance someone hacks into their repo. Modular integration - separate Bitwarden and Adguard apps - is objectively better for these use cases than just pouring some javascripts into every website.
I just mean that 'content blockers' are a solution to a problem of Apple's own creation -
> Content blockers work in original Safari.
I know, what I mean there is that all the browsers on iOS are only superficially not Safari; which is the only reason 'content blockers' work in anything 'not' Safari.
Also you can change your DNS server permanently to an adblocking one like ControlD or NextDNS, iOS hilariously enough only allows this on a per-network basis.
If I have to trust someone, I trust the multi-trillion dollar company built on privacy. If they are found to be spying on people, the hit to the wealth of everyone who works there will be massive.
Like man, I always hear "so many people make their living on this" but uh, maybe if false advertising law is practically unenforced and most ads are practically usually lies pushed by the already established winners in their industry...
Which it certainly seems to be, then. I find it hard to feel too bad, especially when people in the advertising business are probably not going to end up street beggars if things suddenly changed.
edit: although that "makes a living" argument may go wayside a little with the inevitable AI-generated, focus-group tested future we'll be living in. Hmm.
Already have pihole on my home network and unlock on all non-iOS browsers.
Does anyone upload 360 or 180 videos on here?
Now I use youtube vanced, and as a bonus it includes sponsorblock that saves me a ton of time while I watch videos. It also plays videos while phone is locked, useful during jogs and working out.
So the common wisdom goes. Alternative thought: the more you’re willing to pay to not see ads the likelier you are to block them or never click on them, making you worth less as a target.
I think people also underrate how much this varies. Our company has paid $50-$100 per click in the past for certain search terms.
Letting a CTO at a tech company opt out of ads for like $50 is a sucker deal for Google.
> if the user wins the auction, [a thank you message] is placed in the ad space, and the cost of the ad is deducted from the user's monthly contribution. If the user does not win, the winning ad is displayed as normal and the user pays nothing for that slot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Contributor
People that would realistically pay for the product - maybe 50M. I think a ~$10/m subscription could make sense.
The problem is - they probably need to offer something beside just being ad free. And I'm not sure what they could possibly add that wouldn't be better suited just improving the product for the other 99% of searchers.
I'd pay more than $10/m for Search if I had to. I pay for YouTube premium to get rid of the ads (and free YouTube Music). But I don't think the search ads are intrusive enough that I'm willing to pay $10 to get rid of them.
And its likely a Pareto curve too.
So a 99th percentile user could be worth $1000 per month, 99.9th percentile worth $10000 per month, etc.
I imagine they would only take the risk to offer such a premium service when they can figure out how to get everyone to upload their payslips and bank account statements.
Per quarter, no?
Examples: cable TV, Hulu, soon Netflix?
Similarly, I can block ads in web search results in desktop and mobile. But I can't block ads in the Android apps for Google maps and Gmail.
What would I pay to get rid of them. Not much, admittedly. But I would pay more if it was part of an overall package that'd make it easier to pretend Google is not a semi-hostile entity.
Indeed, it would require a google account, and one that is always connected. Basically giving full view of my private life to google and trust that no matter how bad their track record is, from now on they are going to respect it.
I don't trust them to give them that data, and even if I did, I don't trust a gov won't abuse it eventually or something else down the line.
Hence I'd rather not have a google account, and use ad blockers so that the data is just not communicated to them. It should be a constitutional right to do so.
That's an incredibly tiny fraction of Google Search users.
And I don’t think most people would buy a Premium offering if all it did was remove results in Google Search; the only people that helps is Google and most people can easily scroll past those even without Adblock.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Contributor
Newspapers, tv, and music, are counter-examples to the assertion that people won't pay for things - even when they've previously been free.
Google's main product focus now should be Cloud, the ad debate is long-term done.
Let me get this straight. The idea is that Google has deliberately constructed several different systems over the years to enable micropayments or subscriptions to replace ads with the plan of them failing so they can use this as evidence that the ad model is unstoppable and that people shouldn't try to replace it? And this was done despite knowing that an alternative would make Google more money? And not a single person who was involved in this deliberate sabotage has ever spoken about it?
Come on.
> Newspapers, tv, and music, are counter-examples to the assertion that people won't pay for things - even when they've previously been free.
Newspapers are a dying industry and are filled with ads. TV is filled with ads. Even paid streaming services like Hulu (and soon maybe Netflix) are ad supported. Spotify has an ad-driven free service.
> Google's main product focus now should be Cloud, the ad debate is long-term done.
Ad revenue continues to grow every quarter. Yes, Google obviously wants another similarly sized revenue stream and there are very few domains that can generate that kind of revenue. But "the ad debate is long-term done" is just not based in facts.
It's not at all hard for me to believe that a company that has built, shipped, and killed multiple chat apps has also built and killed multiple subscription and micropayments systems. Then, the employees who are pushing adtech can use those failures as evidence that adtech is the only way.
I work at Google. What you say here is not true.
Yes, Google is indeed often very bad at long term product strategy and has rebooted its chat offerings an embarrassing number of times. But "it shipped, fuck it if it works" is not actually a sufficient justification for promotions.
There are people who struggle to get promoted and leave. A very coarse piece of failed promo feedback is "not enough impact" and people sometimes interpret this as "you must launch new stuff." For actual data, the Core Developer organization has historically had one of the higher promo rates in the company despite being primarily focused on internal tooling, maintenance, and iterative improvements like refactoring and optimization.
I have my own hunches for why Google seems to have such terrible product strategy as a company. There are a few cases where I've seen the actual root cause and, while still being stupid at the end of the day, had nothing to do with promotion or career advancement.
Give me something approaching YouTube premium and I'll go for it. Does Scroll support enough sites ye-- oh no Twitter bought them and gutted it.
Is this the upside or the downside of ad blockers? So hard to decide...
Invited and signed up on 2015-04-28, service ended 2017-01-17. I had a $2 monthly reoccurring charge to fund the account, but I just accrued a balance, so I cancelled the charge in 2015-11-15 and that balance lasted until the service ended. In the final email they sent they included some stats:
> Thanks for being a Contributor! Your contribution of $14.01 helped to fund 351 sites! A refund for your remaining balance of -$0.02 is being processed and your account is now closed.
I don't remember it being particularly noticeable, and I think on some sites it would just replace the ads with a banner saying something like "Thanks for being a contributor". I also recall there being tiers / budgets you could set.
Obviously you’re talking about a consumer offering, but I just want to point out that paid, ad-free Google Search does exist and is pretty easy to set up.
https://developers.google.com/custom-search/docs/overview
[Searx upstream doesn't seems to be keen on implementing it though](https://github.com/searx/searx/issues/2622)
And if you can't on your iPhone, get a better phone
Maybe it is different for companies literally paying millions of dollars, but don't expect more than bot treatment below that.
Youtube Premium is a perfect proposition for an easy ad free streaming to TV and to mobile. On Desktop browser adblock extension is efficient enough to cut out the ads.
Google search on the other hand is primarily for desktop and is not a streaming platform that consumes your attention minutes, hence Google Premium has little market with effective adblockers.
What amount would make them think investigating your lock is worth the effort?
They would kinda not want to go in front of a judge even if he states they are allowed to seize peoples funds without any explanation.
https://support.google.com/adsense/answer/57153?hl=en
> Because we have a need to protect our proprietary detection system, we're unable to provide publishers with any information about their account activity, including any pages, users, or third-party services that might have been involved.
I'm still convinced there is some small / non zero difference between banning free users and banning users that produce revenue but it might just be as insignificant as you make it out to be.
Google doesn’t want to give up its current model of operation. Google as a corporation likes being able to surveil the Earth. Google likes being able to control information. Google likes being (essentially) part of the US state department.
I’ve tried it on a couple of demo searches, and the results seem good.
Haven't tried it, but it looks promising.
[0] https://kagi.com/
Would seem to address those concerns — if the only money coming in is users paying directly, that would seem to preclude selling the data for further monetization. Or are those known weasel words?