I'd imagine Pornhub's audience skews younger, as do Mac users given the colleges + Mac association. So I'm not sure this is totally representative. e.g. Steam has Mac at 2% which is unrepresentative in the other direction
Oh, i can AFFORD any phone i want...but i use a cheap android because my self esteem is not dependent on using money to signal other people about my high social status
You're projecting. I can't afford any phone I want, I use a 5 year old iPhone and my choice has nothing to do with my social status. My next phone is likely to be an iPhone too.
The iPhone isn't a good social status signal any longer - the majority of smartphone users in the US have one. If the majority can afford something, it's quite obvious it no longer functions for signaling high social status.
The iPhone hasn't been a good social status signal for nearly a decade at this point.
There's a 'waterfall' effect of status signals. The upper class uses signal A to differentiate themselves from the middle class; the middle class catches on, and starts using signal A to imitate the upper class; the upper class moves on to signal B, to differentiate themselves from the middle class; the lower class use signal A to imitate the middle class; the middle class uses B to differentiate themselves from the lower class and imitate the upper class; from there, it cycles.
ABA->BAB->ABA
The upper class aren't worried about being mistaken for the lower class; that's why 'ghetto chic' exists, and why Zuckerberg wore hoodies. Conspicuous adoption of low-class signals can be a signal of high-class- for a while, till the rest of the culture catches up.
Usual caveats of 'this is a simplified model' etc.
There is a small minority that refuses to buy Apple products because of ideological causes (at least that is the reason for me- I am not comfortable with supporting a company that locks it's users in a walled garden).
I switched to Android because I use a lot of Google products: GMail, Google Calendar, Google Fi, Google Maps.
The deeper integration with my phone makes my life easier and, while there used to be a large gap in quality, I find iOS/Android to be similar these days.
Absolutely not true. I had an iPhone 1, a 3GS and more recently a 13. After a while with the 13, I have switched back to Android (Pixel 6). Issues I had:
- Irritating keyboard behaviour (autocorrect, having to manually add custom words)
- Inability to organise the home screen to my liking
- Inability to adjust the volume of external devices, such as other Spotify devices
- Poor audio switching - if I have music playing, and play a video on another app, the music will not resume after the video ends
- Inability for third party apps to use the alarm volume - so that if I install a third party alarm app, it will change my system media volume to the level of the alarm. Therefore, if I'm playing music and my alarm rings, suddenly the music volume will increase.
- Inability to change the snooze time (hence having to resort to a third party alarm app)
These are just a small selection of (seemingly minor) issues that I had with iOS, and there were more. I appreciate Apple as a brand for its more favourable data privacy aspects, but iOS has a lot of shortcomings and reasons for a user to prefer Android. However, it's important to note that I'm used to Motorola G phones, and now the Pixel, both of which forego any irritating skinning/custom UI over the top of plain Android.
I was using an Android for years. My mother at one point was nagging me to buy an iPhone, and I relented and bought one just to get her to stop nagging.
6 months later I gave the iPhone to my sister and bought a new Android. I still use Android today.
(Apple does not make iTunes for Linux, seemingly out of sheer spite to Linux users like myself. I ended up having to use a slow paid app to transfer files where previously I used a command line and an SSH connection with RSA keys.)
I attribute most of this to iMessage and the associated lock-in effect.
You don't see the same trend in the rest of the world where 3rd party messengers (Whatsapp, Viber, Line, snapchat, etc) are mostly used for comms.
The inability of iPhones to easily host 'cracked' apps also acts as an anchor to adoption - theres a lot of people hooked on their cracked ad-free spotify or youtube apps, or games with 'everything free'.
The EU mandate that all large messaging platforms be interoperable by mid 2023 ought to widen this gap too.
I wouldn't want to be part of the team having a deadline of March to develop and implement a way for every big messaging app to interoperate, with different user models, privacy concerns (e2e?), data storage models, data durability models, etc.
Yet if it launches late, you have that 10% of revenue fine hanging over you, which is huuuuuuge. And the EU probably won't listen to you when you say "we implemented this API but their API was incompatible with ours".
They mandates a bunch of things, more than just payment services. It also includes app stores, at least according to multiple reports, but linking to the specific article that includes app store freedom seems hard to me.
No. Some very large companies have to offer interop for their messageing platforms, smaller ones don't. So if Threema wants interop with Signal, Signal can say yes, no or they can discuss it. If either Threema or Signal want to interop with Whatsapp, Facebook has to offer that, because Facebook meets one of the two size criteria.
I attribute most of this to the simple fact that in Europe, Apple products are around 20% more expensive, because, protectionist EU trade policies.
Unsurprisingly, iPhone has a pretty damn high penetration rate in Japan where it costs about as much as the US, because there's fewer trade barrier there.
Isn't therr career subsidies already heavily at play ?
Having the actual price partially swallowed in business rebates or scaled into years of monthly charges changes the optics in term of price and the option to afford "luxury"
It's probably that using an Android device remains an extremely poor experience. I was an early adopter, a root mod developer, and an open source believer. Even I got tired of hoping for the experience to rival iOS "next year" after 5 years or so.
There's really nothing clever going on. People prefer good products over less good ones.
Not saying you’d like the current experience, but it’s a lot different from the early days.
I used iOS first and android here and then, keeping a middle tier device officially for testing, and privately to see what goes on on the other side. Up until around the last Nexus phone, I agree it was pretty bad. Not unusable, but with very little upside.
I completely switched with the Pixel 4a, and it’s a very good experience with very little downside. Still waiting to see what comes from Apple next week before buying my next phone, but I’m not seeing myself going back to Safari and iCloud if it’s just incremental improvements.
Are cracked apps really that popular? I'm pretty in touch with tech and piracy but I haven't thought of cracked mobile apps especially for something like YouTube and Spotify
Most young people (ie. under 25) seem to have at least a few cracked apps on their phone. I think it starts when you want something and don't have a credit card to pay for it, so you ask your mates and someone knows how to sideload it for free...
Cracked spotify (premium), snapchat (screenshotting messages without notifications), and various games seem to be the most common.
Do you find it reliable or is it whack-a-mole with constants updates required as the main service providers close exploits?
Spotify surprises me because I would think the API is locked down and requests are authenticated. I guess it's abusing the free tier and spoofing the request to avoid rate limits?
Youtube vanced require(d) an update approximately annually, but it has an auto-updater utility so it's just a few taps to do. Most hacked apps are similar (although there is no consistency).
Isn't a risk with using something like YouTube Vanced that Google could determine you're using it and ban your Google account. That could be somewhat mitigated by not signing in to YouTube when using YouTube Vanced, but google could easily determine your IP and compare that to the IP you're using with other Google services and ban your account. And considering how much people rely on Google services, it's a big risk. Or am I overstating the risk?
I attribute most of it to marketing. Both companies make pretty great phones that do more or less the same things equally well.
Apple is better at selling phones. Aside from better ads, they have prominent stores in most major cities. If you want to see the latest Pixel phone, you're going to have to visit a carrier store or Best Buy. As bad as an Apple store might be today, stepping into a T-Mobile store is worse.
I don't think the iMessage effect is what it used to be. My kids (in Texas) communicate on Discord mostly. I think they use Snapchat too. Text messages are pretty much only used to message their parents or to get a ping when their restaurant table is ready.
To me, it feels like Google has lost interest in Android and consumers will pick that up as well.
I'm in Austin and Google has a sizable presence here. They have offices (I've gone to seminars they host), it's a Google Fiber city, lots of schools use Chromebooks and Google Classroom, and it's become a tech hub.
There are Apple stores in malls and those malls all have lots of vacancy. It's a no-brainer that if Google were going to have stores anywhere, they would have them here.
I don't know if Google is serious about stores, but the one in Chelsea in NYC is in an extremely high foot traffic location (right across the street from Chelsea Market), in a building they already own. And Google NYC is way bigger than Google Austin. I don't think starting there rather than Austin shows they aren't serious.
Also, FWIW, the store is pretty nice! Has a much warmer feel than an Apple store.
It's a slow process because it's low priority. I hope they continue though and really accelerate it. Every city should have a place where one can go to get help with Google products. How many stories have you seen blow up on HN that probably could have been resolved in 30 minutes if the person could talk to a Google person face-to-face.
Android people usually do. That doesn't make it entirely true, though.
The overall experience of using an iPhone is, for most people, more consistent and smooth. You're correct to note network effects, but I think you overstate the importance of iMessage for most people. I don't really care if you're green or blue in my text window, and I don't think many people really do. What I do care about and enjoy is the overall platform effects, including easy integration with my Mac, the way the watch works with it, etc.
You could cobble together most of that, I assume, with utilities and whatnot using Linux or Windows and Android, but with Apple all that comes out of the box.
>As bad as an Apple store might be today,
The Apple Store experience is insanely streamlined, easy, and creepy up-sell free compared to a carrier. That's a big deal.
>To me, it feels like Google has lost interest in Android and consumers will pick that up as well.
I'm an iPhone person, but yeah, I think there's something to this, too.
The UK, where WhatsApp is standard, has iOS in the lead. Radio1 now just give their WhatsApp number and not the sms option. Wealth/affordability are relevant.
I'd heard about some of the imessage exploits prior to getting my iPhone, and so the first thing I did was uninstall imessage. Happily, the OS allowed me to do this. I haven't missed a thing, frankly.
Yeah totally must be iMessage and not the fact that iPhones just feel significantly smoother and less laggy, have a way better looking interface, and way better security overall(Android doesn’t even have full disk encryption lol..)
What models are you comparing? I had both between 2016-2018 for work and I was shocked at how slow, buggy/unresponsive, annoying(sign in/update reminders upon unlock), and featureless my work iphone was to my Pixel.
I have no idea what it's like in 2022, but it was such a horrible experience.
iPhone 2020 SE, which cost me $200 in grade-A+ condition on ebay. They have the same processor as the 13 Pro Max. vs. every Android phone I ever touched. I work for a phone company and helped people setup and fix problems on hundreds of different models of Androids.
This is misleading. Android implemented full disk encryption around Android 5 (it's on 13 now), and later transitioned to file based encryption because it's a better fit for mobile phones.
You might be surprised to hear that the iPhone also doesn't have full disk encryption - it used file based encryption as well.
Wait, you use iMessage instead of Whatsapp in the US? I tried iMessage with some friends and I feel like the experience is so much worse, not to mention not having my entire contact list there.
Yes, pretty much everyone uses iMessage here. If you have a non iPhone and try to message an iPhone user you're stuck with slow as molasses, featureless sms which is a huge pain in the ass.
To be pedantic, and thus clear: "iMessage" isn't an app. It's Apple's messaging protocol, that only works between Apple devices.
"Messages" is the name of the app, and it hosts both iMessage conversations and vanilla SMS conversations.
Personally, I can't imagine being willing to use a proprietary messaging app owned by Facebook for any significant part of my online communication.
Using Messages, my contacts aren't "in an app", they belong to my phone (and to my iCloud account, since I use that service). Any messaging app that I am willing to grant permission to has access to them.
Also, iMessage conversations are end-to-end encrypted, and Apple has shown, repeatedly over the years, that they have no interest in mining them for saleable data.
I've seen it the other way. When spending $1000 dollars on a phone is no big deal, you get the best phone available regardless of brand.
When you can't afford it, you finance it. A iphone is $30/month. It's a status symbol for the lower class. It doesn't do much for status when you make 6 figures.
Exactly. If you keep the phone two or three years, a handset costs a buck or two per day and that's something just about everybody can afford if it's something they want.
I am on my fifth iPhone. I sold the first three for respectable amounts of cash, and traded in the fourth for the fifth. For the third and fourth, I ended up making a profit versus the cost of the iPhone that replaced them!
I like to say that Apple is a marketing company with a very good product development team. Apple makes luxury goods with huge cachet. Android covers the entire spectrum of cheap crap up to the same level of luxury but that dilutes the brand. Apple is also vertically integrated, doing everything themselves and licensing nothing.
I feel like many people love iOS, but many also hate it (not open enough, lock in etc.) but they hate the cheapishness and crappiness of Android even more.
Is there any development ongoing for a mobile OS that is not full of crap like Android, but not as restrictive as iOS?
Not sure if Windows Phone or PalmOS were like that, but those are both gone…
Windows Phone apps were absolutely mostly shovelware, which had a not insignificant contribution to it's failure I feel.
Never used PalmOS to comment.
I think third place these days is Tizen which is in a worse place than the two big ones for apps, and then fourth might genuinely be GNU/Linux but there's massive dropoffs between third and fourth, and between second and third.
But you may have used the Palm OS successor, webOS, which is used by LG smart TVs. It blew me away that Palm OS is still around in some form. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebOS
There is also LuneOS [0], its sort of a successor that is built using a combination of Open webOS components and android components, and uses a web rendering engine (Qt WebEngine) for UI and app development.
It's available on a few devices (I have it running on a pinephone; also tried running on a galaxy 4 but got stuck in a boot loop). The wiki is a bit out of date, but there is an active community on their IRC [1].
>I think third place these days is Tizen which is in a worse place than the two big ones for apps,
iirc third place is KaiOS, a proprietary fork of the discontinued FirefoxOS [0]. It's primarily used on feature phones though. As for app support, an official youtube and whatsapp app are available on KaiOS.
This is where my mind is - although I don't think they're quite as far off as you might think.
Frankly - I don't like Apple or Google, and I'm damned tired of being sold hardware that has software locks I'm not given a key to (And at least in this case, Google is better - so I'm still on android hardware for now).
But what I really want is a linux phone at this point. Google had exactly the same reputation 20 years ago that Apple has now (height of the "do no evil" stage). It turns out that companies literally cannot help themselves.
So just like I've moved almost exclusively to linux on non-work computers, I plan to move exclusively to a free OS on my phone hardware. Right now that's un-googled forks of android, but I genuinely hope to see usable phones running on debian/arch/etc in the very near future. We're tantalizingly close with things like the pinephone pro, and the librem.
I was able to use the non-pro pinephone as a daily driver for a bit, and it worked, but not well. And despite sounding negative - that's frankly a huge jump from where we were 5 years ago when a working linux phone (in any shape) was mostly a pipe-dream. I think there's a lot of interest in this area right now.
>I was able to use the non-pro pinephone as a daily driver for a bit, and it worked, but not well
which distro were you running on the pinephone? If you haven't tried out PureOS yet, I'd recommend giving it a shot. The Phosh UI has improved a lot, firefox is now installed by default and scales well, and a lot of usability issues have been fixed. For some workloads, its actually works pretty well as a daily driver.
At the time (about 10 months ago) it was the most solid I could find. I'm a little out of date at this point, but I'll probably check back in on it some time in the next few months.
And I agree - even at the time it was a usable phone. A tad slow for my tastes, but hard to argue with the performance given the low cost of the hardware.
i think more people like apple's hardware than their software (myself included)
android is not full of crap if it doesnt come preloaded with it. the google apps , which you can download are pretty great and the interface can be replaced with another launcher. The app selection in the stores seems identical to me
Yeah. I switched to iPhone late last year, since Apple is the only manufacturer that builds a phone that fits in the human hand. I'm pretty blown away by how bad iOS is compared to Android. Way fewer features, many more bugs, less customizable. Android is a far better software experience, but Apple is my only choice for a reasonably sized phone. Sucks.
I fall exactly here.. I used Android for a long time, until I got tired of my phone becoming non-functional after just a year or two. Switched to iPhones, and now they’re lasting 4+ years. I miss the flexibility of Android and iOS is full of bugs and design-based papercuts, yet it still manages to beat Android in just about all the areas that truly matter to me.
It hasn’t received updates, not even security updates, for years. It’s unacceptable for me to use a phone that doesn’t have security updates. On the other hand the other day Apple released a security update for the iPhone 5s, released in 2013.
Can't say that Google does not deserve "this" defeat (out of many). Google slowly stopped caring about Android: the vision and the concept of a "community-driven" OS but instead went back in the "defensive" mode of caring more about Google: ads, profits, government contracts & "obeying" (without actual motive) draconian surveillance laws, etc. Yes "organizing world's data" was always a core mission of Google, but the fact is that you cannot do that by also fighting over the smallest edges when it comes to competition, not if you want to keep scaling.
Most people have seen this coming as soon as Google fought the concept of letting people switch the search engine, the browser, core defaults on Android. I would say "I can't blame them" but seeing that they want both eating the cake & keeping it, I won't.
Are there any "real" (come on, techy people, you know what I mean) reasons for going Apple besides I suppose the genuine convenience of fully interoperable phone/messaging across devices (which I fully concede is probably a big one for a good number of people?)
The price differences between Android and Apple still strike me as absurd. On the other side, I went from "picking an Android very carefully for rooting" gradually to "what's on sale at Best Buy for about 150" with no major shift in experience or quality.
iPhones are durable and are supported for longer times. Some people prefer spending more upfront for a product that will last longer. iOS is not a bad OS, and some might say that is more idiot proof than Android.
I switched from Android to iPhone. I was tired of my Android phones (Samsung Galaxy’s) only receiving updates for ~2 years. On top of that, I found that there was a lot of “jank” when using some apps. They would crash, fail to load, slow down etc… I attribute that mostly due to the Java based code. I also hated having both Google and Samsung trying to bait me into their “ecosystems”. They also have both the device OEM and Google prying their big data vacuums into the devices.
My iPhone on the other hand, I am still on my first one, and it is 4 years old and still gets updates. And judging by history, it should still get updates for at least another 2-3 years.
Apps don’t crash. The battery is just starting to go on it, but a replacement isn’t very expensive. And the entire Apple “ecosystem” is optional here. Apple is just starting to spin up an ad ecosystem, but the privacy features of the device are quite unparalleled (although I wish I were able to install an on device ad blocker that actually works)
To be fair Samsung is pushing the worst possible android experience consistently since they make phones.
Their android flavor is nothing like stock android, buggy and gets barely updated. The phones to expensive for the actual build quality.
Samsung is just the most ugly side of Android. A pixel or even a Xiaomi that ship with stock and allow removing unwanted apps without hacks is not even compareable.
Hijack my own thread for curiosity. Can Americans get Xiaomi or similar Chinese brands? I've always been curious to try one because I feel like I could hack my way around stuff but life/family keeping busy stuff...
No American but you can just order them from China directly they sell EU and US versions on AliExpress.
I can only recommend Xiaomi, cheap, very good build quality and you don't need to hack or root anything and still have full control over your phone. I've had a cheap Oppo before and it drowned, fell and more and still goes strong 8+ years later.
In isolation, I don't think there's much reason to buy an iPhone right now. I have an iPhone 12 Pro and a Pixel 6a and they're interchangeable as far as I'm concerned.
I also have a Mac, AirPods, and an Apple Watch, though. That makes it kind of a no-brainer which phone I carry around with me.
Access to iMessage so that I can text people in less than 10 seconds is the only reason most people need to get an iphone. Apple's incentives with regards to privacy are also much betters than Googles. Neither are great, but apples strategy revolves around selling marked up hardware, while Googles is 100% about getting people to use google products so that they can be served ads.
Price difference? iPhone SE is $429, iPhone 11 is $499, iPhone 12 $599, iPhone 13 $699. I feel like people who still are stuck at Apple pricing, have really no idea about Apple pricing. Sure, if you want the maxed out best iPhone, it'll be around 1 thousand USD, but so will be maxed out best Android.
But you're talking old phones in the 499 range. You can get new phones in that range in the android ecosystem.
Many people inherently don't want last years model, or the model from 3 years ago.
The full range of the current phones Apple sells today (2022 iPhone SE on the low end through the iPhone 13 Pro Max on the high end) both use the same chipset: the A15 "bionic". As you go up the scale, you're paying more for hardware features (better camera sensor, front depth sensor for face scanning, etc.). This will probably change pretty soon, only because the higher-end phones tend to be refreshed in the fall and the low-end phone was announced and then refreshed in the spring.
Obviously, you can save some money by buying an older phone with better hardware features, but the same applies to Android -- this year's "mushy middle" of pricing is occupied with last year's flagship model.
150. I have chosen the price point of 150. Whatever's on sale at Best Buy for that. Maybe Costco.
I am around Apple people. With the exception of that cross device thing which I concede can be a big deal for some, I have not dealt with or seen any significant differences between their experience and mine.
Fair, but I, on Android don't do that either? Like I said, I used to play around with rooting and stuff, but in the past 5+ years or so (especially with work AND kids et al) it's been "Pop into Best Buy, watcha got for 150, login with Google, done."
There are zero Android phones that are usable one-handed. Apple makes two such models. I strongly prefer Android as an operating system, but if I can't physically use the phone, it's useless to me. So I'm on iPhone.
Not having to care about anything is a real advantage.
If you have absolutely no interest in phones, the base iPhone will be a better device than any android of the same price in terms of stability (years of use) and support (you'll hit not mobile website that doesn't handle it, any major app provider will support it)
android has advantages only if you actually have specific aspects you want to optimize (price, performance, photo, obscure tools, versatility etc..)
Having the Apple Store support option is another one. Yes, repairs can be a bit expensive, but most of them can be done same-day instead of having to ship my phone off for a week+ to get repairs.
This depends on where you’re located though — in some places it’s much easier to get quick OEM repairs for (some) Android devices than for Apple ones.
The A-series chips are also genuinely very good, but one could argue that a lot of that power is wasted on iOS.
Anecdotally, I’ve also found battery life on iPhones to be more reliable out of the box than on most Android devices, especially in standby.
> I went from "picking an Android very carefully for rooting" gradually to "what's on sale at Best Buy for about 150" with no major shift in experience or quality.
Well a lot of people can very clearly tell the difference between a middle of the pack iPhone and a $150 Android device. That you experienced no such variation among the Android lineup is why people prefer Apple. It "feels like" a premium product, is priced like a premium product, and is perceived as a premium product because... you guessed it: it's a premium product!
iPhones aren’t even that expensive anymore. You can get a like-new iPhone SE 2020(which has the same CPU as a 13 Pro Max) for a mere $200 online. There is no Android phone that comes close to the price:performance ratio. Even the cheapest Android phones any prepaid carrier sells retails for $150. It simply blows every other comparably priced Android out of the water.
Has there been some breakthrough in lithium ion battery technology in the last 2 years that Im not aware of? I have 2x 2020 SE's which I've used every day and the battery life is still great. Im always surprised how much time I have before shutdown while using my phone at 1%.
I suspect the phone lies about it's true battery levels and reserves (1% - 10%) to display to users as 1%. Is this true? Does anyone have a source for what 1% really means?
I'm saying that creating a premium product cannot be distilled down to one feature/dimension/characteristic and it's a fruitless task to just ask people on the internet to do it for you.
1) Many people can't specifically identify and articulate which characteristics lead them to prefer one product over another.
2) Many people have different reasons for preferring the same product over the same alternative
3) An individual is probably preferring a set of characteristics that overdetermines their preference (i.e. if you remove one of the set, their preference still doesn't change) and the set is comprised of individually not-very-important characteristics.
Would you be confused if someone said that they prefer a Porsche Panamera over a Honda Civic? They could probably say they prefer the size of the Panamera, but that's clearly not sufficient explanation because they also would prefer it over a CR-V. Then they'd say the materials used are better. But would they now accept a CR-V with the interior redone in ultra-premium materials? Very unlikely.
The reality is that their preference is a complex mixture of things that they struggle to even detect never mind articulate. "Good product companies" get this, and bad product companies just stare in befuddlement at why their CR-V with fancy leather isn't outcompeting Porsche. Of course when you ask someone to explain their preference, they cannot. They don't have the language to describe it! It's a silly question to even ask!
Sure! I hope "other people are idiots" is a helpful model for you.
I find much more value in the view that a great product is the confluence of millions of tiny, apparently inconsequential decisions. It seems completely believable that if the product developers are successful, I as the consumer would struggle to reverse engineer what all of those decisions are by looking at the finished product.
No. seriously -- your absolutely content-free justification of a great product implies, e.g. that crack dealers are great developers of a great product. I legitimately find this sort of after the fact justification not just bad, but dangerous.
But it's not after the fact. Go talk to someone at Apple and they will tell you before the fact how much work goes into the tiny little details. But you're asking users why, and the answer is how could they possibly know? Either everyone is an idiot and you're somehow not hitting a trillion dollar market cap with that knowledge, or the company is doing something very subtle that adds up in ways that are not articulable by laypeople [0].
Not sure what analogy you're getting at with crack. Separate from the moral valence you're trying to ascribe to it, of course it's a great product in some respects. Though I'd suggest that explaining why a single molecule that interacts ~directly with the brain's reward system is a "good product" is much easier than something like a smartphone or car.
[0] One example I happen to know about had to do with the really complex machining that was required on one of the iPhones (forget which) to make the bevel around the screen bezel wrap around the corner in a way that felt (but was not actually) "flat" relative to the straight-line parts of the bevel. Without this multi-axis beveling, which was apparently a complete nightmare to figure out how to manufacture, the corners would've "seemed" sharper. Does that mean someone would pick up an iPhone and remark how nice it is that the corner bevel rotates another 3 degrees or whatever? Obviously not. Does that mean this was a complete waste of time? No one knows. Apple's market cap, margins, adoption, and consumer loyalty point toward them doing something uniquely right though.
Views like the ones you are expressing are dangerous and bad for the world, and I hope you grow to understand that.
The ability that you have to equate affinity/addiction to "good/quality" is downright creepy, and sadly symptomatic of literally the worst bits of all of technology.
If you're operating in real life like this, please stop.
"Good product," at least in English, generally means "a product that people successfully and happily use for its intended purpose." It doesn't usually mean "a product that does good in the world." There are plenty of very good products that don't do good things in the world. If you're operating in real life as if these are inseparable features of an object, please stop.
Well, I suppose you can carry on. Again, if it's useful for you to believe everyone else is an idiot and that, now, good product == product that does good, go ahead. I think this is a very low-resolution picture of reality though, and is probably the source of some of your confusion.
I'm not here to "be correct about somebody's particular definition of words," I'm here to try to get people to make better decisions and actions in the world.
It is absolutely the case that the definition you are using can serve as a technically correct one. But that's not very important. What is important is that real people are being harmed by exploitative technology, and you handwaving that away as if it should be a dismissable part of the conversation is you doing a bad thing.
I’m not handwaving that away lol. You asked whether people could explain why they prefer iPhone over Android. We’re far afield from the point that I (thought?) I was replying to, so I’ll wrap it up here. Have a good weekend!
1) Not being locked in into the Google ecosystem and being tracked by that company. You need to be logged in into your Google account for the play store, which means you're looped in to Gmail and Google calendar.
In iOS I can choose to use different providers for email, calendar, and password management or remove the apps (for the first two).
2) Long support which makes the price really reasonable. I've been using an iPhone 8 for a couple of years now, and still have the latest iOS version and the phone works good enough. If I would have bought an Android phone when I bought my iPhone I would have needed to replace it already, because of lack of updates.
You need an apple account to use their store or? You can also use a different Google account (or account generally) for every app, on non botched stock android at least. You can also remove all apps with stock android, also Google apps. Samsung really skewed the view by shipping the worst possible android.
My Google account for my phone is just for that nothing else. My last phone cost $120 and lasted 6 years, it still works but doesn't run my banking app anymore. my current one was $250 and last for 2 years without issues already.
I do have an Apple account myself, but apparently you don't need one[0]
And I checked on my old Android phone, an Nokia 6.1, which is supposed to have stock Android, and I can't delete these apps: calendar, drive, lens, gmail, chrome, files, photos.
I am no specialist, just someone who avoided plenty of brands. My theorie is that they lock down some stock apps so it doesn't look so fishy when Facebook and co is locked too to get good ad deals.
Every phone I owned in the last 10 years allowed full control about apps without root. That's a nexus, a cheap Oppo and now a Xiaomi.
Edit:// I thought you need an account to activate the iphone? Not sure if I am totally wrong
In my opinion the UX on Android is inferior. It’s not about as good, it’s worse. There are just a million kinda shitty decisions embedded in the interface that aren’t quite right.
For me Android is like an off-brand cola. It gets the job done. It’s sugar water, just like coke. But there are a million little decisions that make Coke a better product.
going from one to the other will always be confusing but as a long time android user I have to say UX has really been going downhill quite a bit. the same could be true for ios but I wouldn't know and neither would other android users so from that perspective a switch might seem like a reasonable idea
For general consumers, the Apple ecosystem beyond just messaging is a legitimate reason. It’s not just messaging, it’s handoff of your browser from your phone to your tablet to your laptop so you can easily keep reading a website even if you swap devices. It’s Apple Pay. It’s Apple Music. Sure, there are Android apps for all of those things, but you have to spend time picking each app and setting it up. Starting a new Apple product is an entirely different experience.
It’s decent hardware and a consistent experience- sure, there have been misses, and sometimes there are non-Apple products that are better. But there is no other single company that offers a competitive watch, tablet, laptop, and phone. Not everyone needs this, which is why basically 50% of people aren’t in the Apple ecosystem. But it’s a legitimate draw for many people. And make sure that you don’t fall in the trap of thinking “just because Apple products aren’t right for me, then everyone that uses them must be an idiot.” You pay for the convenience, but for many people that is worth it, and the fact that not every Apple product is #1 is okay. Basically every Apple product line has something in the top 3.
Apple is like the Disney of the tech world- there are other companies that make good movies, and there are other companies with cruise lines and theme parks, but nobody else that does all that. They stand alone in terms of their breadth and consistency.
For sure. That's exactly what I was trying to get across with my first comment; but I suppose I was wondering for folks (especially perhaps us techy folks) who may not much require that kind of cross platform connectedness -- are there any other advantages?
From a technical standpoint Apple's processors are industry leading- they licensed the core tech from ARM, but their combination of getting them built on advanced production nodes and the tight design integration into the products makes them stand out. And Apple's software support is a couple years longer than most other brands- so an iPhone will continue to be useable in terms of speed and security longer than most Android phones. From a development standpoint, developing for Apple devices on an Apple device is a better experience.
I would say that most other things are on par with other devices/brands, and so you would trade on individual things that you prioritize- screen quality, battery life, compatibility with particular software, etc. And there are a couple small areas in which Apple probably doesn't make sense. For basic video editing, I might still use Apple devices. But if I was creating a rendering farm for an animation studio, I'd probably build servers with video cards and parts that weren't Apple.
To add to this: Apple, like Disney, is generally pretty good at user experience (and, in my opinion, something they've both been faltering on as of late, just look at Genie+). I got a Steam Deck a few weeks ago, and while it's a very good device, there are some software shortcomings that other mobile devices don't have (eg: the device pauses downloads and updates in sleep mode, even when it's plugged in, while my iPhone does a pretty good job of waiting until the middle of the night when the device is on mains power to run app updates and download OS updates). UX is one of those things that's not easily quantifiable or can be objectively described like a feature checklist, so it tends to get overlooked.
Android locks you in as well. We had a hell of a time when switching from Android. My wife's new iPhone wasn't receiving any messages, and we had never heard of "RCS (Rich Communications Services)" prior to this problem. It's incredibly stupid.
I made the jump from Android to Apple a year ago. For me, the benefits were that Apple has a much nicer camera than any of the Android options (especially all the Pixel phones, which have essentially had exactly the same camera for the past six years or so), and that I knew I’d get software updates for at least five years.
Before this I had the Nexus 6P, which despite being a Google branded phone, only got updates for three years. If you amortize the cost of the phone over five years instead of three, it suddenly makes the Apple phones seem like a deal.
Maybe specific to me, but hear me out. 5 years ago, I was all Windows + Android. For both, you get hardware choice. This made me buy mid-range because it felt like a good deal to me. But every laptop I had was cheaply built and became slower and slower. I've never had an Android phone for more than 2 years because they all died for reasons: I had 2 Nexus 5 x that died in a bootloop (a well known issue with this model that Google has always refused to acknowledge), and a Pixel (3a I think?) that stopped charging for no reason.
Now with Apple you don't have a choice in hardware, you can't buy low-cost or mid range. You have to make the choice the make for you. Thiw works for me because I've never had better hardware in my life. I've had a MBP and an iPhone for 2 years and they're still as strong and efficient as the first day. The only non Apple device I still have are my Jabra earbuds, but the left one is randomly dying now. Can't to buy Airpods Pro instead :)
As iphones get more popular, it will lose its Veblen effect. When teenagers who have no job have iphones, it doesn't portray "wealthy" as it used to.
Among my 100k-300k/yr friends, it's about a 50/50 split. My tech friends nearly exclusively android, my wife's medical friends, iphones with a few exceptions.
I'm personally loving my new phone I got last week. It has an aux port!
I was forced to upgrade my phone earlier due to my previous phone using a no-longer supported version of Android. I realised when speccing out new phones that I don't use half the stuff that they can do, my main use is messaging, calling, GPS and occasional browsing. 5G and battery life is important too. So I went for a Nokia XR20. Then fact it runs Android had no relevance. I can't justify spending £1k on a phone; it's absurd.
Now all I need is a better Wifi Hotspot app so I can use it as a 5G router (low latency, channel selection etc)
How does it run l. I bought a cheap Nokia phone in an emergency a couple months back and got stuck with it. All I know for sure is whatever SoC they stuck in there had no business trying to run android.
I prefer android but its getting harder. My employer will only let us have corporate apps on android phones that are quickly patched - right now only Google Pixel phones makes the approved list. Everyone else has iphones.
I've had many androids and iphones throughout the years (I think starting 2010), and i often switching from android to iphone and back. Even when I had the higher end devices like google pixel it just wasn't as high quality as the iphones.
Switched from Pixel 2 to iPhone Pro Max 13 a few months ago. I refer to it as my gilded preschool. The basic quality is phenomenal, but there are so many things I had done to customize my Android to my tastes that I can't do on my iPhone. It's been a very mixed bag for me.
I switched a few months ago and I can't believe the lack of difference. They are very similar. If I want to see the weather, I tap the square with a cloud on it. If I want to start Spotify, I tap that icon. I turn it on and off with a button on the side and turn the volume up and down with the other buttons. The camera takes pictures and I can use the map to navigate in my car. Maybe the Apple camera is better this year, but the Google camera will probably be better next year. Both place calls and can send/receive text messages.
For me (and I think most people) the two are very substitutable. One is a Toyota Camry and the other is a Honda Accord. They are both fine.
I don't know if this is supposed to be a serious comment.
Everyone I know who uses an Android is frustrated with it all the time.
I'm sure the people who make Android also think it's fine. You just tap the button and then an app opens. Who cares if it's janky and freezes half the time? Certainly Android developers don't seem to care.
Not really my Android experience. Any bad Android vibes come two things. Apps that go from good UX to terrible UX or apps that intentionally behave badly (looking at you MS Outlook & your Bing Search poison)
> Apps that go from good UX to terrible UX or apps that intentionally behave badly
At one point, I remember certain google sites displaying differently (and in an obstructive way) when I would browse from Firefox, but not from Chrome.
That's certainly a thing. Sometimes it's just lazy coding.
Conversely, Firefox is the only app that lets me clean up bad site practices (eg: by using Kill Sticky). Conversely to that, in Android I have browse on FFx 68 because newer FFx (still!) has mostly non-existent extension support.
100% serious. I switched to iPhone fairly recently. My last phone was a Pixel and it worked well enough but the battery was shot and the camera was a generation or two old.
I think iPhones are relatively homogenous but with Android - it really matters which phone you have (and whether they're running custom apps or closer to stock Android).
So it's unclear when someone says "they feel very similar" without saying what "they" are.
> I had a good brand (One Plus 6). Taking a picture on Android is an awful experience.
Good brand. Terrible camera app. I carry a OP6 and the awfulness of it's camera is legendary. Besides what you mentioned, the camera app is often incapable of focusing. To deposit checks, I have to use an old phone.
That and the utterly dismal battery life (drains fast with heavy use) will make this my only OP device. I accept good brand but I wouldn't go as far as good phone.
All that said, even this OP6 is still a better option for me than an Apple phone. My first and foremost requirement will always be rooting.
I'd put them squarely midrange. They start out better but their OS modifications often wind up sabotaging the hardware (insanely fast charging to go with the insanely fast, heavy use drain).
I was a big fan and supporter of Android all the way from version 2.2 up to version 8. The final straw was when my brand new 800 dollar motorola phone, which was owned by google at the time stopped getting updates barely a year after I bought it. I also noticed that everything I liked about Android was slowly being stripped away, and Apple was slowly adding all the things I felt were missing. Still not the biggest fan of the fact that I have no headphone jack, but I'm still getting updates on my now 4 year old iphone, it didn't cost me any more than my last android did, and overall it just works so much better for me. Not everything is due to status symbols and affordability
That's fair, but when I buy a laptop made by Lenovo or Dell or whatever, that doesn't prevent me from upgrading Windows to a new version, so why is that the case with Android? (I know the real answer to this, but really, how is this still a problem?) If I bought a google pixel phone, would they support it with new versions for 5+ years? Just sucks that no android phone manufacturers have any incentive to try and keep a phone up to date for more than a year or two any more.
My decision was based on "Google owns Motorola, therefore something considered a flagship phone at the time of buying it should be supported for longer than a year". In my opinion, that's some excellent criteria for buying a phone, just a shame that Google treats everything they do, even owning large companies like a beta test, and shuts things down on a whim whenever they feel like it. Honestly my best android phone was a Xiaomi Note 3, cost less than 300 bucks and performed great up until the day I replaced it. Not sure if they still make phones as well as they used to, but I'd give them another try if I ever went back to Android
My moto was a stop gap when I thought I lost my phone and had to replace it. Moto was already known to be a poor brand at the time. The only thing I missed from it was shake to turn on flashlight. For me, getting flagship phones after 1-2 years it's been out has been a great value. They last for 5+ years if you don't drop it.
Their big mistake was how they communicated (or didn’t) that it was happening. The technical reasoning behind it was sound, and it resulted in actually prolonging the life of the device.
As the battery wore down, the phone would still function, just slower for peak CPU demand. Other devices would just die and people would buy new ones, so not throttling had the effect of people buying newer devices more often than needed.
The main issue is they should have alerted people that performance was degrading so they could get a new battery.
Can you overclock your Android phone? Force it to run faster at a cost to battery life and overall stability, just by changing a setting in the UI?
Assuming the answer is "no", then Android doesn't actually grant you meaningfully greater freedom in this regard than Apple does: you're just upset about the communication around a particular feature/bug-workaround that requires underclocking the phone temporarily in certain situations.
I can install on it everything I want, including a kernel that lets me do so. Don't rephrase my words, Apple does not want you to interfere with your own machine.
You were complaining about a very specific incident, using wording that suggested you either didn't understand the background behind it, or were deliberately attempting to obscure that background in order to paint Apple as worse than they are.
If your beef with Apple is the lack of repairability of their phones and laptops, then you do you. Personally, I have no problem with it, because it's a tradeoff that gets me laptops with higher build quality in a smaller package.
But if your stated beef with Apple is something that isn't true or doesn't make a lick of sense, I'm gonna call it out, if only to help reduce the degree to which the false narrative about the throttling spreads.
I'm attached to the ecosystem, like watch, home hub, use Google One, Photos, etc. I was very close to switch to Apple, but picked a Samsung S series phone which is the first Android device that is actually polished. Imo Google made a mistake by giving too much freedom to manufacturers, they are really bad at making decent consumer devices and ditch their half baked product right after release. PC bussines model like in 90s doesn't work for phones.
My experience on Android: good hardware, very open and customizable, but the defaults all have a cheapish, crappy mentality and quality to them; the phone degraded in one year. Everything is Google-centric and I simply don’t trust them anymore.
On Apple: great hardware, everything on the OS is nice out of the box. Thought went into everything from colours to fonts to make it nice. The phone lasts for years and years. Apple doesn’t seem quite so underhanded.
Now, we spend lots of time with our phones. Getting one that is nice and feels snappy to use makes every day 0.5% better. Combined with the fact that iPhones last longer and have resale value, for most people, it’s a no-brainer even at a much higher cost.
In fact, the cheaper Androids get, the worse the perception of them will get.
For me what keeps me on iOS vs Android is app quality. No matter how many times I try to switch to Android completely, the lack of quality apps on the Play store always bums me out.
The best apps on the App Store are unique to iOS, and Android apps always feel like an after thought, and many of the best iOS apps do not have Android counterparts.
Apollo for reddit, CoPilot for money management, Flighty for flight tracking, Foreflight for aviation, Halide for camera, Things/Muse for notes and todos, Overcast/Castro for podcasts, Tweetbot/Twitterific twitter, even Spark for email use to be iOS only for years.
I challenge you to compare the quality of iOS only vs Android only apps.
The iOS dev community seems vibrant, and I wish I could say the same for Android.
I worked for a similar company that put in real effort to make quality, well-designed, native Android apps to match the iOS offerings. I left in 2019, so my info might be out of date.
On iOS we inevitably made anywhere from 2x to 10x the amount of money through IAPs. No matter how good or fast the Android app was, no matter how many good reviews, no matter if we saw 2x or 3x or 4x as many installs on Android.
If our clients wanted to actually profit, the answer was clear: do iOS first, and then decide whether an Android version is even necessary.
I work on an app with 100k MAU. Android users are 3x iOS users, but those iOS users make us 3x more money on both ads and subscriptions than the Android userbase.
Its crazy how many left leaning socialist types are on here, yet everytime apple, the second most profitable company in the world and largest by market cap is brought up, they come out of the woodwork to defend their disgusting lock-in and infantilization that they force down the throats of their mostly unknowing consumers, who then use it as status symbol against poor people and tech literate people who understand apples lock in and don't want part of it. What upsets me is the HN also takes part of this even though they are tech literate. And some of these people even claim to want to "fix capitalism" or whatever. Apple fanboys will respond something like "we don't like lock in but android is just to yucky for me" or "we don't like lock in but my grandma might be scammed otherwise." Back on topic im disgusted to see this trend continue in the US, though I am not surprised
I bought OnePlus 6 in 2018 and am still using it. It's still receiving updates.
I've seen some apps crash/hang occasionally, some always, some never. I believe the cause of crashing is in those apps rather than Android itself.
If getting a new phone, I will choose OnePlus or Pixel. I don't see what iPhone is better at, Apple ecosystem aside.
I think a lot of it is the UX and design feeling so advesarial and frankly cheap.
I'm a long time android user but lately I've been wondering if it's still a reasonable choice.
I'm writing this from my brand new pixel and I'm frankly shocked how bad the UX is.
one of the most blatant dark patters is the impossible to remove (without installing a third party launcher) google assistant/search bar that takes up the most important screen realestate right on the bottom.
another horrid design choice is the (also impossible to remove without third party tools) "at a glance" widget which stays in place and shows the date even when you turn the feature off. it also sits just slightly off to the left from where the clock widget ALSO shows the date making it look like hot garbage
It's a band-aid solution really, but I can recommend you check out the launcher Lawnchair. It looks and behaves much like the stock launcher, but is far more customizable, letting you change the things you mentioned. Thankful that Android will still let you change out the launcher, at least.
yes the fact that it CAN be fixed is a huge plus but I think for most people the frustration of having to fix unpleasant UX decisions, clearly just made to get people to use their device in a specific way, feels like enough of an FU to warrant considering other options.
Android is starting to feel like the choice for people that really want to tinker with their phones, install custom roms etc. but it lacks a middle ground option between that and just going with ios to not being bothered by so much nonsense. then again I rarely use ios so maybe I'm just not aware of the equivalent annoyances
Must say I'm a little surprised with many of the comments from a tech focused site/forum like this one. I find that Android is a far more open system with a great community that rewards the inner hacker (no matter how much of a novice they may be).
I have a Samsung Galaxy S4, it is still a very usuable phone and is running a modern android version and gets regular updates. Sure it is a bit slow and I had to flash a custom rom (/e/os) but that is not hard to do.
This phone is now almost 10 years old, but still gets updates and can run most apps. I don't think this can be done with an iphone.
For me, I think that’s actually part of why I stay away from Android. I tinker and whatnot with my open systems and it often leads to various forms of slight incompatibilities or instability. I rely on my phone to work consistently, and for me that’s meant staying with a more closed off ecosystem to protect me from myself.
Android is more customizable for sure but the default behavior does matter and the default state of android devices almost invariably feels advesarial and cheap.
Bloat wear, ugly launchers, horrid camera apps, all sorts of dark pattern.
Used to be that nexus devices offered a no BS android experience but having just switched to a pixel I feel like these days are gone too
yes it is /e/os getting updated but it is still android and I thought that most people here would be up for changing between the flavors rather than just sticking with the original.
I don't stay with the original OS on my PC why would I do the same with my phone. If my original PC OS stops getting updates I change to a newer one. I figured most here would be used to that.
Uber, that I can remember. Didn't like the micro g aspect, but I hear that may have changed. Also banking apps but I don't use those myself.
ofc, it should be. Android quality both on soft and hardware is not on par with Apples now. Google should step up their game with better phones and software.
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[ 6.0 ms ] story [ 279 ms ] threadHow do i know? check stats from porn websites :)
https://www.pornhub.com/insights/yir-2021#Devices-Technology
I dont think one can exclude enterprise here
By some accounts, Apple already had >50% marketshare in the US but FT's source is probably more reliable.
The iPhone hasn't been a good social status signal for nearly a decade at this point.
ABA->BAB->ABA
The upper class aren't worried about being mistaken for the lower class; that's why 'ghetto chic' exists, and why Zuckerberg wore hoodies. Conspicuous adoption of low-class signals can be a signal of high-class- for a while, till the rest of the culture catches up.
Usual caveats of 'this is a simplified model' etc.
My 128GB Xiaomi Redmi Note 9S cost me about R5000 in 2020 while a comparable screen sized iPhone with the same capacity would have been R20,000
Easy decision to make when the $$$ is paid upfront - contracts for iPhones here are already like cars heading towards 36 months.
Remind me - how long is your Android phone receiving software updates for?
The deeper integration with my phone makes my life easier and, while there used to be a large gap in quality, I find iOS/Android to be similar these days.
- Irritating keyboard behaviour (autocorrect, having to manually add custom words)
- Inability to organise the home screen to my liking
- Inability to adjust the volume of external devices, such as other Spotify devices
- Poor audio switching - if I have music playing, and play a video on another app, the music will not resume after the video ends
- Inability for third party apps to use the alarm volume - so that if I install a third party alarm app, it will change my system media volume to the level of the alarm. Therefore, if I'm playing music and my alarm rings, suddenly the music volume will increase.
- Inability to change the snooze time (hence having to resort to a third party alarm app)
These are just a small selection of (seemingly minor) issues that I had with iOS, and there were more. I appreciate Apple as a brand for its more favourable data privacy aspects, but iOS has a lot of shortcomings and reasons for a user to prefer Android. However, it's important to note that I'm used to Motorola G phones, and now the Pixel, both of which forego any irritating skinning/custom UI over the top of plain Android.
6 months later I gave the iPhone to my sister and bought a new Android. I still use Android today.
(Apple does not make iTunes for Linux, seemingly out of sheer spite to Linux users like myself. I ended up having to use a slow paid app to transfer files where previously I used a command line and an SSH connection with RSA keys.)
You don't see the same trend in the rest of the world where 3rd party messengers (Whatsapp, Viber, Line, snapchat, etc) are mostly used for comms.
The inability of iPhones to easily host 'cracked' apps also acts as an anchor to adoption - theres a lot of people hooked on their cracked ad-free spotify or youtube apps, or games with 'everything free'.
I wouldn't want to be part of the team having a deadline of March to develop and implement a way for every big messaging app to interoperate, with different user models, privacy concerns (e2e?), data storage models, data durability models, etc.
Yet if it launches late, you have that 10% of revenue fine hanging over you, which is huuuuuuge. And the EU probably won't listen to you when you say "we implemented this API but their API was incompatible with ours".
https://www.macrumors.com/2022/07/05/eu-approves-landmark-le...
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL...
Unsurprisingly, iPhone has a pretty damn high penetration rate in Japan where it costs about as much as the US, because there's fewer trade barrier there.
Having the actual price partially swallowed in business rebates or scaled into years of monthly charges changes the optics in term of price and the option to afford "luxury"
There's really nothing clever going on. People prefer good products over less good ones.
I used iOS first and android here and then, keeping a middle tier device officially for testing, and privately to see what goes on on the other side. Up until around the last Nexus phone, I agree it was pretty bad. Not unusable, but with very little upside.
I completely switched with the Pixel 4a, and it’s a very good experience with very little downside. Still waiting to see what comes from Apple next week before buying my next phone, but I’m not seeing myself going back to Safari and iCloud if it’s just incremental improvements.
Cracked spotify (premium), snapchat (screenshotting messages without notifications), and various games seem to be the most common.
Spotify surprises me because I would think the API is locked down and requests are authenticated. I guess it's abusing the free tier and spoofing the request to avoid rate limits?
Apple is better at selling phones. Aside from better ads, they have prominent stores in most major cities. If you want to see the latest Pixel phone, you're going to have to visit a carrier store or Best Buy. As bad as an Apple store might be today, stepping into a T-Mobile store is worse.
I don't think the iMessage effect is what it used to be. My kids (in Texas) communicate on Discord mostly. I think they use Snapchat too. Text messages are pretty much only used to message their parents or to get a ping when their restaurant table is ready.
To me, it feels like Google has lost interest in Android and consumers will pick that up as well.
Google has a NYC store, with a second one also in NYC that recently opened. Seems like they want to keep going there.
https://store.google.com/magazine/locations?hl=en-US
I'm in Austin and Google has a sizable presence here. They have offices (I've gone to seminars they host), it's a Google Fiber city, lots of schools use Chromebooks and Google Classroom, and it's become a tech hub.
There are Apple stores in malls and those malls all have lots of vacancy. It's a no-brainer that if Google were going to have stores anywhere, they would have them here.
Also, FWIW, the store is pretty nice! Has a much warmer feel than an Apple store.
Android people usually do. That doesn't make it entirely true, though.
The overall experience of using an iPhone is, for most people, more consistent and smooth. You're correct to note network effects, but I think you overstate the importance of iMessage for most people. I don't really care if you're green or blue in my text window, and I don't think many people really do. What I do care about and enjoy is the overall platform effects, including easy integration with my Mac, the way the watch works with it, etc.
You could cobble together most of that, I assume, with utilities and whatnot using Linux or Windows and Android, but with Apple all that comes out of the box.
>As bad as an Apple store might be today,
The Apple Store experience is insanely streamlined, easy, and creepy up-sell free compared to a carrier. That's a big deal.
>To me, it feels like Google has lost interest in Android and consumers will pick that up as well.
I'm an iPhone person, but yeah, I think there's something to this, too.
There are a lot of people who do care, especially in group chats. There's an experience downgrade when an Android user is added to a group chat.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/262179/market-share-held...
It would be nice to see some evidence of this. It seems less complicated to me.
Particularly among young people, Android phones have a reputation for being trash, and they are the equivalent of my generation's store brand shoes.
Or does Apple allow third-party apps to handle SMS? If so, that would be news to me...
I have no idea what it's like in 2022, but it was such a horrible experience.
On a similar note, Pegasus has me unable to get an iPhone even if I wanted to.
There might be some multi step exploit that requires me to download an app from an external source, but nothing like the 0 clicks.
You might be surprised to hear that the iPhone also doesn't have full disk encryption - it used file based encryption as well.
Doesn't mean that there is a correlation. In the EU iPhones are way more expensive than competitors. The difference is bigger than in the US.
All Meta products are privacy violating trash and wouldn't use them at all.
"Messages" is the name of the app, and it hosts both iMessage conversations and vanilla SMS conversations.
Personally, I can't imagine being willing to use a proprietary messaging app owned by Facebook for any significant part of my online communication.
Using Messages, my contacts aren't "in an app", they belong to my phone (and to my iCloud account, since I use that service). Any messaging app that I am willing to grant permission to has access to them.
Also, iMessage conversations are end-to-end encrypted, and Apple has shown, repeatedly over the years, that they have no interest in mining them for saleable data.
Tech people excluded because they have other niche reasons for their smartphone choice.
When you can't afford it, you finance it. A iphone is $30/month. It's a status symbol for the lower class. It doesn't do much for status when you make 6 figures.
$30/month (for a maxed out phone; you could be looking at $12/mo) is much more palatable to a lot of people than paying the full sticker price today.
Is there any development ongoing for a mobile OS that is not full of crap like Android, but not as restrictive as iOS?
Not sure if Windows Phone or PalmOS were like that, but those are both gone…
Never used PalmOS to comment.
I think third place these days is Tizen which is in a worse place than the two big ones for apps, and then fourth might genuinely be GNU/Linux but there's massive dropoffs between third and fourth, and between second and third.
It's available on a few devices (I have it running on a pinephone; also tried running on a galaxy 4 but got stuck in a boot loop). The wiki is a bit out of date, but there is an active community on their IRC [1].
[0] https://www.webos-ports.org/wiki/About
[1] https://www.webos-ports.org/wiki/Contributors
https://palm.com/
iirc third place is KaiOS, a proprietary fork of the discontinued FirefoxOS [0]. It's primarily used on feature phones though. As for app support, an official youtube and whatsapp app are available on KaiOS.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KaiOS
Frankly - I don't like Apple or Google, and I'm damned tired of being sold hardware that has software locks I'm not given a key to (And at least in this case, Google is better - so I'm still on android hardware for now).
But what I really want is a linux phone at this point. Google had exactly the same reputation 20 years ago that Apple has now (height of the "do no evil" stage). It turns out that companies literally cannot help themselves.
So just like I've moved almost exclusively to linux on non-work computers, I plan to move exclusively to a free OS on my phone hardware. Right now that's un-googled forks of android, but I genuinely hope to see usable phones running on debian/arch/etc in the very near future. We're tantalizingly close with things like the pinephone pro, and the librem.
I was able to use the non-pro pinephone as a daily driver for a bit, and it worked, but not well. And despite sounding negative - that's frankly a huge jump from where we were 5 years ago when a working linux phone (in any shape) was mostly a pipe-dream. I think there's a lot of interest in this area right now.
which distro were you running on the pinephone? If you haven't tried out PureOS yet, I'd recommend giving it a shot. The Phosh UI has improved a lot, firefox is now installed by default and scales well, and a lot of usability issues have been fixed. For some workloads, its actually works pretty well as a daily driver.
At the time (about 10 months ago) it was the most solid I could find. I'm a little out of date at this point, but I'll probably check back in on it some time in the next few months.
And I agree - even at the time it was a usable phone. A tad slow for my tastes, but hard to argue with the performance given the low cost of the hardware.
android is not full of crap if it doesnt come preloaded with it. the google apps , which you can download are pretty great and the interface can be replaced with another launcher. The app selection in the stores seems identical to me
Not trying to attack but can you explain what you mean with that?
There are at least 200 current android phone models and at least 50 popular flavours of android around.
Sure you don't find a stock Samsung phone feeling 'luxury' but even a cheap Xiaomi with cleaned up stock android feels 'luxury' to me.
Most people have seen this coming as soon as Google fought the concept of letting people switch the search engine, the browser, core defaults on Android. I would say "I can't blame them" but seeing that they want both eating the cake & keeping it, I won't.
The price differences between Android and Apple still strike me as absurd. On the other side, I went from "picking an Android very carefully for rooting" gradually to "what's on sale at Best Buy for about 150" with no major shift in experience or quality.
Which means 0 chance of getting apps with no tracking.
My iPhone on the other hand, I am still on my first one, and it is 4 years old and still gets updates. And judging by history, it should still get updates for at least another 2-3 years. Apps don’t crash. The battery is just starting to go on it, but a replacement isn’t very expensive. And the entire Apple “ecosystem” is optional here. Apple is just starting to spin up an ad ecosystem, but the privacy features of the device are quite unparalleled (although I wish I were able to install an on device ad blocker that actually works)
Their android flavor is nothing like stock android, buggy and gets barely updated. The phones to expensive for the actual build quality.
Samsung is just the most ugly side of Android. A pixel or even a Xiaomi that ship with stock and allow removing unwanted apps without hacks is not even compareable.
I can only recommend Xiaomi, cheap, very good build quality and you don't need to hack or root anything and still have full control over your phone. I've had a cheap Oppo before and it drowned, fell and more and still goes strong 8+ years later.
I also have a Mac, AirPods, and an Apple Watch, though. That makes it kind of a no-brainer which phone I carry around with me.
Apple just isn't as competitive for new devices.
Obviously, you can save some money by buying an older phone with better hardware features, but the same applies to Android -- this year's "mushy middle" of pricing is occupied with last year's flagship model.
150. I have chosen the price point of 150. Whatever's on sale at Best Buy for that. Maybe Costco.
I am around Apple people. With the exception of that cross device thing which I concede can be a big deal for some, I have not dealt with or seen any significant differences between their experience and mine.
I write code and setup cloud infrastructure for a living.
If you have absolutely no interest in phones, the base iPhone will be a better device than any android of the same price in terms of stability (years of use) and support (you'll hit not mobile website that doesn't handle it, any major app provider will support it)
android has advantages only if you actually have specific aspects you want to optimize (price, performance, photo, obscure tools, versatility etc..)
This depends on where you’re located though — in some places it’s much easier to get quick OEM repairs for (some) Android devices than for Apple ones.
The A-series chips are also genuinely very good, but one could argue that a lot of that power is wasted on iOS.
Anecdotally, I’ve also found battery life on iPhones to be more reliable out of the box than on most Android devices, especially in standby.
Well a lot of people can very clearly tell the difference between a middle of the pack iPhone and a $150 Android device. That you experienced no such variation among the Android lineup is why people prefer Apple. It "feels like" a premium product, is priced like a premium product, and is perceived as a premium product because... you guessed it: it's a premium product!
In my experience iphone users carry a powerbank with them.
2nd hand phones with non replaceable batteries are not worth paying much.
Edit: So to clarify, you could be saying "there is something better about Apple" or "Apple people are complete suckers." Which is it?
1) Many people can't specifically identify and articulate which characteristics lead them to prefer one product over another.
2) Many people have different reasons for preferring the same product over the same alternative
3) An individual is probably preferring a set of characteristics that overdetermines their preference (i.e. if you remove one of the set, their preference still doesn't change) and the set is comprised of individually not-very-important characteristics.
Would you be confused if someone said that they prefer a Porsche Panamera over a Honda Civic? They could probably say they prefer the size of the Panamera, but that's clearly not sufficient explanation because they also would prefer it over a CR-V. Then they'd say the materials used are better. But would they now accept a CR-V with the interior redone in ultra-premium materials? Very unlikely.
The reality is that their preference is a complex mixture of things that they struggle to even detect never mind articulate. "Good product companies" get this, and bad product companies just stare in befuddlement at why their CR-V with fancy leather isn't outcompeting Porsche. Of course when you ask someone to explain their preference, they cannot. They don't have the language to describe it! It's a silly question to even ask!
I find much more value in the view that a great product is the confluence of millions of tiny, apparently inconsequential decisions. It seems completely believable that if the product developers are successful, I as the consumer would struggle to reverse engineer what all of those decisions are by looking at the finished product.
Not sure what analogy you're getting at with crack. Separate from the moral valence you're trying to ascribe to it, of course it's a great product in some respects. Though I'd suggest that explaining why a single molecule that interacts ~directly with the brain's reward system is a "good product" is much easier than something like a smartphone or car.
[0] One example I happen to know about had to do with the really complex machining that was required on one of the iPhones (forget which) to make the bevel around the screen bezel wrap around the corner in a way that felt (but was not actually) "flat" relative to the straight-line parts of the bevel. Without this multi-axis beveling, which was apparently a complete nightmare to figure out how to manufacture, the corners would've "seemed" sharper. Does that mean someone would pick up an iPhone and remark how nice it is that the corner bevel rotates another 3 degrees or whatever? Obviously not. Does that mean this was a complete waste of time? No one knows. Apple's market cap, margins, adoption, and consumer loyalty point toward them doing something uniquely right though.
The ability that you have to equate affinity/addiction to "good/quality" is downright creepy, and sadly symptomatic of literally the worst bits of all of technology.
If you're operating in real life like this, please stop.
"Good product," at least in English, generally means "a product that people successfully and happily use for its intended purpose." It doesn't usually mean "a product that does good in the world." There are plenty of very good products that don't do good things in the world. If you're operating in real life as if these are inseparable features of an object, please stop.
Well, I suppose you can carry on. Again, if it's useful for you to believe everyone else is an idiot and that, now, good product == product that does good, go ahead. I think this is a very low-resolution picture of reality though, and is probably the source of some of your confusion.
It is absolutely the case that the definition you are using can serve as a technically correct one. But that's not very important. What is important is that real people are being harmed by exploitative technology, and you handwaving that away as if it should be a dismissable part of the conversation is you doing a bad thing.
In iOS I can choose to use different providers for email, calendar, and password management or remove the apps (for the first two).
2) Long support which makes the price really reasonable. I've been using an iPhone 8 for a couple of years now, and still have the latest iOS version and the phone works good enough. If I would have bought an Android phone when I bought my iPhone I would have needed to replace it already, because of lack of updates.
My Google account for my phone is just for that nothing else. My last phone cost $120 and lasted 6 years, it still works but doesn't run my banking app anymore. my current one was $250 and last for 2 years without issues already.
And I checked on my old Android phone, an Nokia 6.1, which is supposed to have stock Android, and I can't delete these apps: calendar, drive, lens, gmail, chrome, files, photos.
[0] https://www.macworld.com/article/673831/how-to-use-an-iphone...
Every phone I owned in the last 10 years allowed full control about apps without root. That's a nexus, a cheap Oppo and now a Xiaomi.
Edit:// I thought you need an account to activate the iphone? Not sure if I am totally wrong
For me Android is like an off-brand cola. It gets the job done. It’s sugar water, just like coke. But there are a million little decisions that make Coke a better product.
It’s decent hardware and a consistent experience- sure, there have been misses, and sometimes there are non-Apple products that are better. But there is no other single company that offers a competitive watch, tablet, laptop, and phone. Not everyone needs this, which is why basically 50% of people aren’t in the Apple ecosystem. But it’s a legitimate draw for many people. And make sure that you don’t fall in the trap of thinking “just because Apple products aren’t right for me, then everyone that uses them must be an idiot.” You pay for the convenience, but for many people that is worth it, and the fact that not every Apple product is #1 is okay. Basically every Apple product line has something in the top 3.
Apple is like the Disney of the tech world- there are other companies that make good movies, and there are other companies with cruise lines and theme parks, but nobody else that does all that. They stand alone in terms of their breadth and consistency.
I would say that most other things are on par with other devices/brands, and so you would trade on individual things that you prioritize- screen quality, battery life, compatibility with particular software, etc. And there are a couple small areas in which Apple probably doesn't make sense. For basic video editing, I might still use Apple devices. But if I was creating a rendering farm for an animation studio, I'd probably build servers with video cards and parts that weren't Apple.
Before this I had the Nexus 6P, which despite being a Google branded phone, only got updates for three years. If you amortize the cost of the phone over five years instead of three, it suddenly makes the Apple phones seem like a deal.
Now with Apple you don't have a choice in hardware, you can't buy low-cost or mid range. You have to make the choice the make for you. Thiw works for me because I've never had better hardware in my life. I've had a MBP and an iPhone for 2 years and they're still as strong and efficient as the first day. The only non Apple device I still have are my Jabra earbuds, but the left one is randomly dying now. Can't to buy Airpods Pro instead :)
Among my 100k-300k/yr friends, it's about a 50/50 split. My tech friends nearly exclusively android, my wife's medical friends, iphones with a few exceptions.
I'm personally loving my new phone I got last week. It has an aux port!
Now all I need is a better Wifi Hotspot app so I can use it as a 5G router (low latency, channel selection etc)
Isn't Apple at risk of losing its air of exclusivity if this continues?
Hard to believe the difference. Android is really bad at many things, and I had a good brand (One Plus 6).
Taking a picture on Android is an awful experience. The Camera app takes about 3 seconds to open, and freezes for a second when taking a picture.
The Camera app on iPhone opens instantly and takes photos instantly.
The quality of the pictures taken on the iPhone are also much much better.
I don't like the closed model of the iPhone, but the quality is currently unbeatable.
For me (and I think most people) the two are very substitutable. One is a Toyota Camry and the other is a Honda Accord. They are both fine.
Everyone I know who uses an Android is frustrated with it all the time.
I'm sure the people who make Android also think it's fine. You just tap the button and then an app opens. Who cares if it's janky and freezes half the time? Certainly Android developers don't seem to care.
At one point, I remember certain google sites displaying differently (and in an obstructive way) when I would browse from Firefox, but not from Chrome.
Conversely, Firefox is the only app that lets me clean up bad site practices (eg: by using Kill Sticky). Conversely to that, in Android I have browse on FFx 68 because newer FFx (still!) has mostly non-existent extension support.
So it's unclear when someone says "they feel very similar" without saying what "they" are.
Good brand. Terrible camera app. I carry a OP6 and the awfulness of it's camera is legendary. Besides what you mentioned, the camera app is often incapable of focusing. To deposit checks, I have to use an old phone.
That and the utterly dismal battery life (drains fast with heavy use) will make this my only OP device. I accept good brand but I wouldn't go as far as good phone.
All that said, even this OP6 is still a better option for me than an Apple phone. My first and foremost requirement will always be rooting.
Also note that your issue is not with Android, it's with moto.
Pixel, Huawai in the past, Xiaomi all allow to use stock android and remove any apps.
As the battery wore down, the phone would still function, just slower for peak CPU demand. Other devices would just die and people would buy new ones, so not throttling had the effect of people buying newer devices more often than needed.
The main issue is they should have alerted people that performance was degrading so they could get a new battery.
Assuming the answer is "no", then Android doesn't actually grant you meaningfully greater freedom in this regard than Apple does: you're just upset about the communication around a particular feature/bug-workaround that requires underclocking the phone temporarily in certain situations.
Are Apple laptops repairable by you?
If your beef with Apple is the lack of repairability of their phones and laptops, then you do you. Personally, I have no problem with it, because it's a tradeoff that gets me laptops with higher build quality in a smaller package.
But if your stated beef with Apple is something that isn't true or doesn't make a lick of sense, I'm gonna call it out, if only to help reduce the degree to which the false narrative about the throttling spreads.
Also, clearly Samsung has tried to take up the premium approach (as well as every other tier)
On Apple: great hardware, everything on the OS is nice out of the box. Thought went into everything from colours to fonts to make it nice. The phone lasts for years and years. Apple doesn’t seem quite so underhanded.
Now, we spend lots of time with our phones. Getting one that is nice and feels snappy to use makes every day 0.5% better. Combined with the fact that iPhones last longer and have resale value, for most people, it’s a no-brainer even at a much higher cost.
In fact, the cheaper Androids get, the worse the perception of them will get.
The best apps on the App Store are unique to iOS, and Android apps always feel like an after thought, and many of the best iOS apps do not have Android counterparts.
Apollo for reddit, CoPilot for money management, Flighty for flight tracking, Foreflight for aviation, Halide for camera, Things/Muse for notes and todos, Overcast/Castro for podcasts, Tweetbot/Twitterific twitter, even Spark for email use to be iOS only for years.
I challenge you to compare the quality of iOS only vs Android only apps.
The iOS dev community seems vibrant, and I wish I could say the same for Android.
After 10+ years of making apps, the discussion with new clients is still the same here (EU/USA) every time:
Client: we want an app
Me: iOS or Android or both?
Client: both
Me: Ok, which one first?
Client: iOS, I have an iPhone 13 Pro max, make it work on that!
... app designed and built in close co-op with the client
Me: What do you think?
Client: Great! Publish it! Let me put it on my phone!
Me: shall we do the Android design? On which phone types should it work; premium or also mid or budget?
Client: Who cares, just do something and publish it whenever. Here is money, Bye!
On iOS we inevitably made anywhere from 2x to 10x the amount of money through IAPs. No matter how good or fast the Android app was, no matter how many good reviews, no matter if we saw 2x or 3x or 4x as many installs on Android.
If our clients wanted to actually profit, the answer was clear: do iOS first, and then decide whether an Android version is even necessary.
That’s the most ridiculous statement I’ve seen today, bar none.
I have a Samsung Galaxy S4, it is still a very usuable phone and is running a modern android version and gets regular updates. Sure it is a bit slow and I had to flash a custom rom (/e/os) but that is not hard to do.
This phone is now almost 10 years old, but still gets updates and can run most apps. I don't think this can be done with an iphone.
> ... I had to flash a custom rom (/e/os) ...
> ... 10 years old, but still gets updates
It's e/OS that's getting regularly updated, right?
If you had never flashed a custom rom and stayed with Samsung's Android that came with the phone, would you still be receiving regular updates?
> can run most apps
Curious to know what apps haven't run on your phone?
I don't stay with the original OS on my PC why would I do the same with my phone. If my original PC OS stops getting updates I change to a newer one. I figured most here would be used to that.
Uber, that I can remember. Didn't like the micro g aspect, but I hear that may have changed. Also banking apps but I don't use those myself.