This is fantastic. However, I only see the use case of messaging through the Meshtastic clients. Is there any other thing one can do over this setup, like Gopher or IRC?
For a more baby-steps approach to resiliency, one might start running software on less-virtualized computers, creating a small home-lab, running software on bare-metal hardware that you actually own.
Fun fact: At least one ham radio store ran out of walkie talkies during the power outage in Spain, also there was plenty of chatter on 446 when it's normally quite quiet.
Many people already do that (e.g. I use Linux on a Laptop- I consider this bare-metal).
The way I read this, it's more about what is needed to get services back up after a large scale loss of critical infrastructure: communication to other network/internet/infrastructure professionals.
I spent the weekend moving all my personal projects away from github & AWS to to dedicated hardware in the EU, still not in my own home, but I'm toying with the idea of purchasing some hardware to run gitlab etc from my home network.
Renting dedicated hardware is expensive though. I'm taking a financial hit for my paranoia.
Also related though maybe not resiliency-focused: It's quite easy now to download all of Wikipedia and all of Project Gutenberg to a hard drive, so that whatever problems you have in the post-apocalyptic hellscape, boredom won't be one of them.
Kiwix is the best software I have found for this and they make an extensive library of materials available for download themselves, which includes the aforementioned but also many other resources that would be helpful in a disaster scenario: https://library.kiwix.org/
Huh. Hadn’t heard of Meshcore before. Thanks for that. It sounds more organized than Meshtastic. Seems more polished, but also a bit more opaque (from my cursory examination). That may just be, because it’s not had as much time to get established. It has all the open credentials.
From her article:
> Their answer was both depressing and freeing: “You can’t. All you can do is be prepared with tools and a plan for when the crisis arrives. That’s when the organization will listen.”
That is so sad, but also, so true.
I was fortunate to have worked for a company that is over 100 years old, and that had weathered a couple of wars, depression, recession, market disruption, etc.
They were about as open to disaster planning as anyone, but they could also be head-in-the-sand knuckleheads. The biggest thing was the company had a fiscal and cultural conservative bent; quite unusual in the tech industry, these days.
Anyone that has managed a DR system, knows how difficult it is to get support. Disaster Recovery is expensive, resource-intensive, and difficult to test. It is also stuff people don’t want to think about. Sort of like insurance.
My suggestion as someone preparing for this kind of stuff since quite a while:
+ Quangsheng UV-K5
+ Android phone with 3.5 mm audio jack
+ APRSdroid installed
Forget about LoRa, that is basically a toy. It is far more useful to have a functioning walkie talkie capable of talking with satellites and other stations at 50 kilometers of range.
The issue with satellite stuff, is that it’s pretty sensitive to active attack. It will be available for things like natural disasters, but not necessarily for war.
That is inaccurate. You will NOT be able to jam a satellite outside local areas, the amount of power to do is monstrous and likely to cause cancer for anyone around.
In a real scenario these things work. Please don't fall into "what if's" which are exotic and confused as things bigger than what they are.
Well, from the comments, here, this sounds like a passionate topic, for folks.
I've always been interested in helping folks that help folks.
I started looking at Meshtastic, some years ago, but found the ecosystem to be a bit overly-complex, as is often the case, with "Swiss Army Knife" approaches.
> You will NOT be able to jam a satellite outside local areas
It is true that you will not be able to jam the _downlink_ frequency outside local areas.
But due to the FM capture effect, anyone else in the same hemisphere with a basic 100w transmitter (and appropriate antenna) on the _uplink_ frequency will be able to deny the satellite service to all the 5W Baofeng radios that preppers are stockpiling.
That level of argument is already at Reddit level where every little detail is a reason to be "right". This is tiresome.
Look: if someone is jamming something with a 100 watt transmitter which causes impact on the adversary, that location is quickly bombed because it is now a giant beacon that advertises its position.
I'll even throw a cheap appeal to authority and mention that I've done this stuff professionally in the military for a decade. I'll still trust more on the usability of my cheap walkie-talkie capable of +50km range and satellite texts than an exotic LoRa used on the ground by few internet warriors.
I think the Internet warriors are trying to build their own entirely self-sufficient network independent of the state or commercial worlds, which is, as you say, tricky to do only with resources legally available to the general public. Armed forces have had these things nailed down pretty much since the invention of radio.
Things like this really benefit from experience and practice though. If an emergency is the first time you try to really use your radio, it's probably not going all that well.
That is indeed true. Practicing is important. To remember: APRS is available on other frequencies and methods, one does not need a radio license to receive text messages.
APRS is friendly enough to permit sending messages using normal internet and receiving messages from friends while on the outdoors. However, all of this requires practice and know-how.
Depends. Various parts of Europe have bands that can be used licenseless and allow data, e.g. in Germany there was somewhat of a community doing APRS-over-CB (past tense because I haven't kept up if thats still a thing).
it doesn't, but if you only start learning and using your equipment once disaster has hit you are a bit late (and possibly getting in the way of others trying to use radios properly).
Yes, that is the case. By the time you learn and get more equipment, you might as well get a proper radio license too. If you are interested on the topic, it is worth doing (in my opinion)
> Forget about LoRa, that is basically a toy. It is far more useful to have a functioning walkie talkie capable of talking with satellites and other stations at 50 kilometers of range.
You’re not going to reliably get that without terrestrial infrastructure, unless both you and your correspondent are conveniently standing on mountaintops.
5km in the suburbs, maybe. Closer to 500m at street level in an urban environment.
To be fair, he actually says that he isn't able to do comparison vids, yet (because the UK is fairly flooded with Meshcore, so I guess it's a good reason).
The video is a promotion for Meshcore.
But I'm not sure that's necessarily a negative. Meshcore does seem to be a good thing.
The one issue, from my limited understanding, is that Meshocore doesn't seem to have integrated positional data, which would be very important for things like emergency response efforts.
The problem with lora (and APRS over satellite... well, even ground APRS) is, that the bandwidth is very limited and usually only for "one person at a time", so while meshtastic/meshcore might be fine for tens of stations and a few users chatting, once those numbers get higher, the routing/signalization uses up most of the bandwidth, and many people sending messages at the same time makes the whole system very unreliable.
APRS is a bit better, because it requires ham licences and (usually) a bit more expensive equipment, but with "SmartBeaconing" and just a few hams, you get collisions (multiple people transmitting at the same time, effectively jamming eachother).
Reddit is usually full of preppers and other idiots buying these cheap chinese radios, usually without any knowledge and licences (that are needed to use them), and in turn they know nothing about actual use of those devices.... simplex range in urban environment is measured in hundreds of meters or maybe one or two large buildings between radioss, and repeaters will be in use by actual emergency servics and not really usable for any kind of "private use".
tldr: get a few books, a pack of cards, wait it out, not so long ago being unreachable away from home was the norm, and we managed.
Portugal was for 24 hours without electricity. LoRa networks were jammed and non-operational because the bandwidth is limited. APRS kept working.
It is far better to have a walkie-talkie that you can use as PMR on the 446 range and use for satellite text messages than an expensive toy that very few use.
And as you also know: You do NOT require a radio license when operating under emergency situations, which is the context on this case.
> And as you also know: You do NOT require a radio license when operating under emergency situations, which is the context on this case.
In portugal? Yes, you need one. Probably in every other EU country too
In USA too.
I have no idea where people got the myth of not needing a licence in emergencies, probably due to not reading the actual rules.
Also, you cannot use the same device for PMR and ham radio bands, the PMR device needs to be certified for PMR use, that means that it can only transmit on pmr frequencies and nowhere else. Other devices (eg. ham radio) cannot be used on PMR frequencies.
It's not FUD, it's regulation which exists for good reason, because in cases of actual emergencies, trained ham operators can assist actual emergency services with communication, and that's impossible if every idiot with a baofeng jams the channels.
In Portugal you are legally permitted to use channel 9 (27.065 MHz) in addition to the PMR channels. The hard line has always been on public safety bands. From a long time cooperation with the authorities (especially around the Azores) there was always an informal permission for that kind of usage across boats and islands because communication is difficult there.
Last but not least: taking the radio license exam is NOT a drama. Anyone can apply and get the radio license when they are serious into this topic.
Channel 9 is a CB channel, and neither quanshengs nor baofengs work on those frequencies at all, but you need a certified/type-accepted CB radio to use on that frequency.
Same with PMR, you need a PMR radio to use on pmr frequencies.
It's not FUD, it's just hardware limits and regulation.
Yes, 12yo kids can get an amateur radio licence, it's easy, but you still need a licence to transmit on ham bands, and you still cannot legally use a baofeng (except the few pmr models) or a quansheng on PMR frequencies, those radios don't transmit on cb freqencies at all, and there are no legal "you don't need a licence in an emergency" exceptions.
I have a ham radio and still not got around to getting my license. I never transmit on it now but in a proper crisis I am not going to worry about being prosecuted by the radio authority.
Your neighbor has access to a car, but still hasn't got around to get his drivers licence. In a proper crisis, he'll google "how to drive a car?" and "what does the third pedal do in a car?", and won't worry about being prosecuted by the driving authority.
You will in turn have to share the road with him in the same way as other radio amateurs (and possibly rescue services) will have to share the spectrum with you. You transmitting on a repeaters input frequency without a subtone set will in turn jam the repeater (PLL is before the TSQL) will make communications impossible in the same way as your neigbor stuck in the middle of the road with a burnt clutch will make driving impossible for others.
But hey, stay lazy, don't get a licence, i'm sure you'll be able to figure it all out fast when you're knee deep in flood waters.
You don't need a radio license to receive radio messages, that is valid also for satellite messages received on walkie-talkies.
This fact alone is incredibly important to at the very minimum known what the heck is going on. Suddenly you have a cheap device in your hands that can receive updates relevant to survivors and victims.
In Portugal exist the 3-3-3 plans for anyone to practice using a radio. These are regular-weekly sessions with a lot of people joining.
But who will send messages to you? Including satellite messages?
In most countries emergency services have moved over to tetra or dmr, with encryption, and all the public related info is broadcasted on "normal" broadcast fm, where you need a normal fm radio, not a ham transciever.
That is a question you can answer yourself when trying it out.
In Portugal +90% of tetra stopped working. DMR only locally.
Satellite APRS continued working. Who will listen? Well, those from north to south on the country were listening. More important, they were listening who was still active because those were the stations running with their own energy because even FM stations started to go down quickly as the generators ran out of fuel.
Had the blackdown lasted a week, those with a 20 euros walkie-talkies would very likely be the only ones still capable of +50 km distance communications and +1700 km reach using satellite APRS text messages.
Try to see from it from that perspective. You really won't have electricity nor cellphone coverage and not even FM in such scenario.. It's all gone.
> i'm sure you'll be able to figure it all out fast
Even if you do, a radio by itself is useless unless you can trust the people on the other end.
Perhaps your generator won’t start. A voice on the radio sounds like a mechanic and claims you need a new spark plug. He can offer you one if you can meet him in a neighborhood 3 minutes from your house. Is this a benevolent actor with small engine expertise and a garage full of spare parts? A well meaning elderly man with dementia? An opportunist luring you into a robbery?
You lose a tremendous tactical advantage in this situation if you’ve never met any local radio operators, gotten a sense of where they live and what they do for a living. Some are skilled experts. Some are blowhards who confidently give bad advice. Some live near you. Some are 100 miles away. You can figure it out, but it takes time that you don’t have in the middle of a disaster.
Get your license. Join your local Amateur Radio Club. Use your radio to chat with someone at least once a week. If you have signal quality issues, experiment with upgrading your equipment. Then the radio in your bug out bag will be of some value to you.
The same applies to driving... you have to know the road rules, how the car behaves in what situations, how to drive in bad weather, heavy traffic, etc.
Now the best way is to get licenced and drive (=use a radio) in "normal" cirumstances to get experienced before an emergency. Somehow 12yo kids manage to get licenced, but preppers can't.
> No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station of any means of radiocommunication at its disposal to provide essential communication needs in connection with the immediate safety of human life and immediate protection of property when normal communication systems are not available.
This rules applies to:
> the use by an amateur station
Not every billy and bobby with a baofeng are an amateur station.
Luckily, at the beginning of part 97 there are definitions of such words (you have to open the full document, not just this article)
> Amateur station. A station in an amateur radio service consisting of the apparatus necessary for carrying on radiocommunications.
So, for something to be an "amateur station", you need an "apparatus" (some kind of radio transmitter) and it has to be a part of "amateur radio service". That too is defined in the same document:
> Amateur radio services. The amateur service, the amateur-satellite service and the radio amateur civil emergency service.
It's not RACES (that's defined below), not satellite, so let's see what "amateur service is", again, definition in the same document
> Amateur service. A radiocommunication service for the purpose of self-training, intercommunication and technical investigations carried out by amateurs, that is, duly authorized persons interested in radio technique solely with a personal aim and without pecuniary interest.
So, for that rule to apply, you need a device (an apparatus), that has to be used for self-training etc (read above), for noncommercial, personal aim by a licenced ("duly authorized") person. Only then can you break other rules (eg power limits) in situations described in rule 403 you linked above.
Without a licence, a radio is just a radio, eg. a business band radio (like many motorolas are), and nothing in the part 97 (regulating amateur radio) applies to the user of that radio. Only when a licenced ham uses that (or any other radio, or even a homemade transmitter), in a specific way (described above) that "just-a-radio" becomes an amateur station.
On the other hand, getting a license is pretty easy. If you have a US address you can take 2 ten minute exams online for $10 to get General class; that's usable when traveling globally. It's a fixed pool of about 300 questions, so a half day of studying should be enough.
With the license, there are ham repeaters for FM and DMR. My cheap Chinese radio can reach the repeater 15km away.
It also supports APRS, but only for sending beacons. I can't really test it as there aren't repeaters around.
What I don't get about Meshcore is... What's their goal. They seem a commercial venture, their contact email is customers@..... I don't know they're license... I rather use meshtastic.
I think their basic idea is to have a more advanced (and therefore scaleable mesh) where you can have more control over the path your packets take. I dont get the impression they are very commercial. Seems to been started by people first approaching meshtastic with proposed changes to the algo and getting rejected and therefore "forking" (forking in quotes because I dont think they share any code)
Yeah, that is crappy indeed. The core itself is open source and someone could write a different android app but I doubt it would show up there as option.
If I go to https://meshcore.co.uk/about.html, the fact that there is two youtube videos there and not a button that says "Download Docs PDF" shows me exactly how serious they are about "[We] connect people and things, without using the internet"
You could just about squeeze voice down LoRa with a really low-bandwidth codec, as really aggressive codecs can manage < 0.5 kbps. If you want to sacrifice voice quality but use standard codecs, the military MELPe codec has 600 bits/s as one of its standard modes.
And yet such implementation never was seen outdoors.
Because it would likely violate the restrictions setup for the LoRa frequency. Using a normal walkie-talkie has none of those limitations while being cheaper and more versatile.
No mention of starlink? Even if the internet is entirely down locally your packets could be routed to the other side of Earth before making it to the internet.
Starlink is much simpler for the average consumer to setup than what this article suggests.
Well IMHO it is more about if the infrastructure is centralized or decentralized. In a centralized infrastructure we are all at the whim of someone like Musk/Gates fill in the ______
A mesh network and federated services will not rely on one actor or server. And if you are in middle of no where and only a random guy from Texas is hosting, then maybe start your own node if he is unreliable.
a pretty important part of everyone's strategic planning in 2025 needs to be resilience to random rich American cunts deciding to inflict harm on you or your country.
The article is talking about the war in Ukraine specifically, and not only has the US repeatedly threatened to disable their starlink access if they don't agree to a treaty, Musk himself admitted to disabling starlink during a Ukrainian raid a couple of years back.
Resiliency isn't found by relying on corporations who are subject to interference by foreign nations.
Sure, as a backup to your regular internet it could work, and can be shared with your community. However, the objective is to be independent from any infrastructure. The US has boycotted the ICC in the Netherlands already, if the ICC were to arrest American or Israeli war criminals they may choose to expand that boycot to the whole country, which includes Starlink access.
I've been thinking about an idea, that maybe it would be worthwhile for a city to create a wireless network where it uses rooftops for a mesh.
This WiFi offers a low-data-rate (<5-10 mbit/s) service to seniors for free or a very low fee (~3€/month), without service guarantees, but honest best-effort.
In the case when an internet problem arises, which affects the city's it-infrastructure, the city can switch to this WiFi to have their city-wide services still interconnected, while the seniors get kicked off of the network during this time.
I see the sarcasm but you're likely not simulating this hard enough. This is what happened in most of Spain and Portugal during the recent power outage and it wasn't pretty.
It also wasn't so incredibly nasty, though.
There were disruptions and some arrests, but the large majority of people were in the streets socializing, dancing, doing impromptu things they wouldn't be doing on a work day.
That's because they kinda expected everything to be back to normal in a few hours. If there would be some more catastrophic distributed outage there would probably be less dancing.
> Thanks to war, geopolitics, and climate change, Europe will have more frequent and more severe internet disruptions in the very near future. Governments and businesses need to prepare for catastrophic loss of communications.
I think the subject of the thread is pretty clearly how to deal with interruptions that won't resolve themselves in a short time. It's on you that you choose to ignore that and focus on "was it pretty for a milisecond?"
Now we've gotten to "Ok the claim was admittedly not true but it's your fault for pointing it out instead of going along with the groupthink" Is this the post-truth society we hear about?
The sub-thread was very clearly started by the idea that loss of connectivity might not be as bad as assumed, there was space to have some debate about what positives could be taken and how we could actually prepare to live with outages alongside preparing to negate them.
I didn't think much of it honestly, the original point of it not being so bad, but your comment has left me with the feeling that the internet can't fall soon enough.
Pretty for young and unencumbered, less so for the COPD patient with an oxygen concentrator, or the parent of an infant running out of sterile bottles, etc.
With breastfeeding, which millions can't, for whatever reason (even if only prior preference, you can't turn it on at will). Bottle feeding young babies without the ability to semi-sterilise formula and sterilise bottles will lead to higher infant mortality.
Obviously, but not all. I can't believe I have to say this, but prolonged blackouts (with all the downstream ramifications they bring to hygiene, temperature control, food safety, food availability, etc) would cause infant mortality to exponentially rise as days pass without power.
Without the power grid we are right back to the dark ages in a matter of a few days. Except at least in the dark ages people sort of knew how to survive. Now, only a minority of people really know how to survive without modern conveniences.
I would disagree. The dark ages were hundreds of years ago, the electric grid is much less than a century old. Plenty of countries have unreliable supply and rolling blackouts and have adapted to it or have just never became accustomed to the luxury of 24/7 electricity on demand. Being without juice is not the end of the world.
Those places generally have the luxury of 24/7 electricity, normally via diesel gensets, for key parts of their infrastructure, such as fuel transfer, hospital, food supply.
The places that don't have the fallback ready access to fallback diesel genset, like rural South Sudan or Burundi, are pretty close to an end of the world scenario.
Don't romanticise disaster. If a developed country indefinitely lost power, a huge swathe of the population would die, starting with the infants, elderly, and chronically ill. Then hunger and disease would come for the rest. Nonsense ideas that we'd MacGyver or bushcraft our way out of trouble are infantile.
To sterilize a bottle you simply need boiling water without a significant amount of toxic materials in it. To get boiling water you need water, a container for the water, a combustible fuel, an ignition source, and a means of transferring heat from the burning fuel to the water. Even if you don't have a metal pot you can do stuff like heating rocks and then stacking them on cool rocks inside a plastic, glass, ceramic, wood, etc container filled with water to get to a boil.
> Even if you don't have a metal pot you can do stuff like heating rocks and then stacking them on cool rocks inside a plastic, glass, ceramic, wood, etc container filled with water to get to a boil.
That can get you sterile water, although it's extremely difficult to do and involves many more rocks than you'd imagine easily 5x the mass of rock to water to get a rolling boil for a full minute, but it doesn't get you clean water. Now you have sterile water with a lot of potentially very unpleasant dissolved solids. Certainly not something you'll be using to feed an infant.
Put the bottle in a smaller container of clean water inside the larger container of water with the top sticking out of the water so it doesn't overflow into it. It'll take longer to boil without the convection but you'll get there eventually. You can fashion tongs out of sticks to pull rocks back out after their heat has mostly transferred to the water while you put newly heated ones in.
You mean everyone who didn't have an issue because modern hospitals have backup generators that can run for days, or even indefinitely if diesel-based?
The diesel supply in all countries is dependent on the grid, so days is the absolute maximum. The reality is often much less. During the recent power outage in Portugal, the Alfredo da Costa maternity hospital had only one hour's diesel and had to be resupplied by ministerial chauffeurs delivering Jerry cans of fuel.
Still, all the ancillary services that go into a hospital like water, sewage, medical gasses, cold chains, etc are all dependent on the grid, as are the people who make them work. If a large-scale outage happens, most hospitals will start losing patients within 24-48 hours and will close as functioning hospitals well within a week.
This is one of the reasons I'm looking at extending my solar system to add a battery and islanding, so I can have a regular resupply of some amount of power/electricity for the necessities in case of extended outages.
I'm not sure how far into "prepper" that makes me. I don't have a store of canned food or weapons or a generator. I started down this track to keep my home lab (on which I self-host a bunch of stuff) online / protected through outages.
Additionally, the city in which I live has an ad-hoc amateur WiFi setup which connects over several kilometres. I used to be a member a long time ago but, ironically (in this context) getting fiber internet meant I kinda lost interest. It's one of those things that had just never gotten back to the top of my priority list: https://air-stream.org/
Solar and battery for refrigeration seems a waste.
If you own a house I'd look into very old school options like digging a deep hole to store your food in a dark&cool place - forgot the name for it but it'll work for weeks or months without a single milliwatt
That sounds really inconvenient (am I going to keep my food down there all the time, or is the plan to carry the entire contents of my refrigerator down there in an outage?) not terribly effective (RIP all the frozen stuff) and probably not any cheaper. Plus the hole can’t be used for other things like charging my phone.
That's very smart and might end my quest for a truly quiet bedroom fridge, if it really only runs two minutes in an hour. (Light fridges marketed as "quiet" just produce near-constant annoying fan noise, quietly.)
If society actually suffers a sustained "collapse," access to electricity won't even be among your top-20 problems. You're going to be more worried about how you're going to obtain water, food, and protect yourself from the roving looters and/or warlords that will immediately spring up in the absence of law and order.
> protect yourself from the roving looters and/or warlords that will immediately spring up in the absence of law and order.
This is a hollywood meme.
The reality is that aggressive looters/warlords will be very quickly disposed of and the remaining ones will fall in line and become semi-official protective militia forces, who will labor alongside farmers in small communities if they don't want to starve.
Food scarcity will be a much bigger issue that some nutcase trying to loot my solar panels.
There are a lot more of regular reasonable folks who own guns (approximately 134 million in USA) than those who have some kind of meme warlord fantasy.
Which is to say, normal people really don't like shooting each other, and they REALLY don't like being shot at, so most normal folks would eliminate the threat of crazy warlords first, then form some kind of organized militia group to repel small groups of raiders/thieves.
Any large group of raiders would very quickly fall victim to its own internal politics and lack of resources, because they don't produce anything. You can't have a group that's 100% raiders.
It's just not going to look like Mad Max, ever. Sorry to disappoint.
This is exactly it. The other part is not just water pumping but operating the sewer systems - if the lift stations are down the whole thing fills up in about a week and the basic plumbing in your house - and thus pretty much entire city, stops working.
Cities are not setup to support their current populations without those services and once you run out of buffer things go downhill quick - wastewater is an enormous and immediate disease hazard.
I guess it depends on your perspective. Here in Portugal, lots of people ended up sitting on their patios, chatting with friends, cooking on the grill, playing cards, sipping wine, and generally having a pretty good time. There was a collective groan around the small village where I live when the power came back on, and quite a few people commented that they were disappointed that they'd have to work in the morning.
> and quite a few people commented that they were disappointed that they'd have to work in the morning
Hangover from the port.
Instead of doing drugs or chatting, I'd read a book on my Kobo.
The thing with the stuff you mentioned. I already drank enough alcohol jn my life to not bother with it anymore. Same with card games. And random chitchat.
With my neighbors? For sure. Friends? Don't live near me anymore. How am I going to chat with my friends if they're hundreds of kilometers away? By way of a (smart)phone, which requires power.
We actually saw the effect of downtime during covid. In the beginning, a massive appreciation for health services. We all know how long that lasted. In the beginning, it was us against the virus. Eventually, we were fighting with each other, even over details. Rest assured, offensive propaganda services from secret agencies learned a lot from that (one may guess which one primarily).
If it was so awesome that wine drinking and chit-chat, why aren't we doing it? A pretty simple explanation is: because it ain't awesome. Yes, a change of pace can be regarded as a fun challenge or change of pace. Heck, it may even open up people to changing their life. But look how much we remote work post covid. Policies were reverted.
People absolutely drink wine and chit-chat with each other. They can't during the day usually because they have work.
It seems to me that these modern anti-social tendencies are actively driving a wedge between most people and their surroundings, making people further isolated from each other. Young people tend to spend time in doors alone because they don't know _how_ to interact with strangers. But they should because being alone is literally damaging to your health.
Being far away from friends is bad for you[1]. Being socially isolated is bad for you. Promoting a lifestyle in which you don't have friends and don't talk to strangers is akin to promoting a lifestyle in which you don't exercise.
It's not "awesome", it's a necessary component of living healthily as a human being.
Perhaps too late to comment - but I think it's just population density being too high. There's only so much presence of others that you can take without getting tired of it. Just having people around is communication of its own.
That much anyone can figure, and my point is, that threshold of sustainable density can be way lower than commonly thought. We're just too used to it, like we're used to burning fossil fuel. There might be a "peak density", hopefully after population growth resumed on the high orbit and beyond.
Also based in Portugal, big city, and had a shockingly different experience. Fights in the street over traffic violations, fights at the bus/train stops for cutting 3h+ long queues, people hauling multiple 5L bottles and emptying the stores...
I doubt everything would be as idyllic as you describe if the blackout went for longer.
The power grid went down in a large area of the US about 20 years ago. The biggest issue I saw was the gas pumps didn't work. Cars were lined up, many abandoned, just waiting for the power to come on some they could get gas. I was in college at the time, but home for a few days. I heard rumors that the power was on west of us (where my school was), so I just started driving west, hoping I found where the power was on before I ran out of gas. Thankfully, that worked out.
But if the power, and the gas stations, don't work anywhere. It won't take long before we start running out of food and other utilities start to fail.
Gas stations are private businesses, and they typically make almost nothing on gas, most of their margin is in the c-store.
Requiring every single one of them to invest in a 5-6 figure power backup solution with hundreds or thousands in yearly maintenance costs, so they can sell their lowest margin product to accommodate those who can't plan ahead during a disaster that happens maybe once in a decade event is pretty absurd.
I guess a government/population that cared about resilience would require them to add a few pennies/gallon onto the price to pay for backup generators. Maybe also bigger storage tanks.
Maybe they would just design a more reliable grid, or have an emergency management organization that can flexibly solve many problems instead of dictating huge costs to private business owners in order to cover for extremely rare events.
How does one plan ahead for a multi-day regional power failure, that may only happen once in their lifetime? Should everyone have several hundred gallons of gasoline stored in their garage just incase? Or maybe we all invest in personal solar generation at our homes, with enough battery capacity to power an electric car and the home through those short winter days? This would cost tens of thousands of dollars for every household in the country. What about renters? Are they out of luck? Suggesting individuals prepare for this seems equally absurd, does it not?
> How does one plan ahead for a multi-day regional power failure, that may only happen once in their lifetime?
Ready.gov has instructions.
> Should everyone have several hundred gallons of gasoline stored in their garage just incase?
oh, c'mon.
Do you or any one person you know use several hundred gallons of gas over the course of a few days on critical things? If that is the case, then yes, by all means you should have a private gasoline backup supply since you are running some sort of industrial scale operation.
If you are worried about it, just make sure you have a several day supply of gasoline on hand. For most people that use about a tank of gas per week that means filling up when you are at half tank. For those of us, like me, who live in a place where a generator is occasionally useful, a couple of jerry cans full of gas are typically already on hand. Hundreds of gallons could keep me powered up for weeks at a minimum unless I was really trying to use a lot of power.
For most people, gasoline is used exclusively for their car, which has a multi-day gas supply storage mechanism built in.
Lets say we require all gas stations to have the ability to pump gas during a blackout. Then what? It doesn't solve any of your hypotheticals. Without a beefy generator and a professional crossover switch, you aren't powering your home with gasoline. What is a working gas station going to do for a renter, or apartment dweller?
In any case. If things get actually desperate, it isn't that hard for a handy person to wire a generator up on the spot, and get gas pumping, although at that point, what are the chances that the payment network is online. At that point you can just run the pump by hand if it's truly desperate.
> Suggesting individuals prepare for this seems equally absurd, does it not?
Not absurd at all. Experts and the government actually suggest that people do some of their own preparations for disasters. They suggest that you have enough on hand to survive for 48 hours without outside help. There are entire government initiatives, campaigns and organizations based on this exact premise. Check out Ready.gov for the USA federal version. You can probably find state and local level initiatives where you are too, if in the US. Almost every large, multi-day, regional blackout in living memory is weather related, which also means it is predictable.
And gasoline is insanely easy to replace if you have a car that uses it. Drive to station when car is empty, dump oldest 5 gallon can of fuel into tank, finish filling tank, refill can. Do it every three months. No gas is more than a year old, half the time that stabilizers allow.
If disaster strikes, you never worry about the gas you have.
I had to get gas every day for my generator during the outages. Only one gas station in down was in an area that still had power. If you don’t live in so cal and have to deal with public safety power shutoffs, quit talking out of your ass. Our power grid is so unreliable here that they really need to make the gas infrastructure more resilient.
When shit goes down, people need to be able to get fuel. The populace at large is never going to be prepared enough to deal with every gas station in the area going down. Raise the cost of gas by 10 cents to cover the costs. If every station is mandated to do so then they won’t have any issues with the margins as they will simply all raise prices in concert.
I don't live in SoCal. I live in rural Canada where I get several power outages per year due to inclement weather downing lines.
It sounds like there wasn't really a problem with gas availability, in your case. You were able to get enough gas to comfortably power a generator with no preparation during one of the biggest emergencies the city has ever seen. During the LA fires, the power cuts were to small enough areas that you could have just driven to a different area of the city. That sounds inconvenient, but hardly worth the effort of building independent power generation sources for the 10k+ gas stations in your state.
A far better solution is to do what we do in my part of Canada: a competently run power company that doesn't arbitrarily shut off power due to failing infrastructure setting billions of dollars worth of city on fire. We don't have PSPS's despite living in a very fire prone place with extreme weather because our infrastructure is maintained much better.
Instead of forcing everyone to subsidize individual power plants for gas stations to do long tail risk mitigation, California should maybe invest in a grid that doesn't regularly cause billion dollar fires.
You make a great point. Additionally, I know personally of one house fire that was caused by sparks from a power line falling on a stray gas can and lighting the whole place on fire. If you combine bad infrastructure with everyone storing a bunch of extra gas around the house, then that might actually increase fire risk significantly.
It’s also not something you really need to plan in advance. It’s ok if you can’t pump gasoline for a day. If there’s some catastrophic outage that takes down an entire region for days, you can hook up generators to the pumps at that point. There are plenty of portable generators out there. It’s not like a hospital where people will die if the power is out for more than a minute.
Movie theaters have a similar model. The movie gets you in the door, but it’s very low margin. They make almost all their profit on the concessions.
While I can count on one hand the number of times I walk into the store at a gas station in a given year, I know others who buy things on a daily basis, to the point that they’re on a first name basis with everyone there and the employees start asking questions if a few days go buy without a visit.
> I know others who buy things on a daily basis, to the point that they’re on a first name basis with everyone there and the employees start asking questions if a few days go buy without a visit.
Pretty well known, and documented. You can google it, or do the math yourself. Typical margins are around 1-2% on fuel sales. You can check this by looking up the wholesale price of gas (search for 'gasoline rack price', that tells you what it costs at the distribution center), then add in taxes, and you will find that most stations are within a few cents of cost. Don't forget that gas pumps cost $20k per, and all of the fixed costs like tanks, testing, calibration, inspections, etc.
The business model for a typical gas station is to bring people in with competitively priced gas, since people are incredibly price sensitive to gas, and then make money with high margin c-store items. Most of the things in a c-store have triple digit margins. That's why you'll see plenty of c-stores without gas stations, but its pretty rare to see a gas station that doesn't have a business attached.
Government imposes all sorts of regulations on all sorts of businesses; prices rise to cover it. Any one individual gas station might not be able to sustain having an expensive generator, but if they all need one, and they all raise prices to cover it, it doesn't affect the competition much.
Think the some of the worst of it was for people stuck in elevators. Don’t have exact numbers but there were A LOT of them. Emergency services were very busy freeing people. My wife was stuck on a train and that wasn’t so great either. Toilets overflowed, ran out of water, eventually evacuated and walked to the previous station. They were lucky to be only a couple km away.
When Whatsapp and a bunch of social media went down a few years back I took a stroll outside that evening here in Berlin and the streets were weirdly buzzing. It was a bit surreal.
Maybe some sort of bias but I also view things this way.
I can remember I was at a birthday party and the entire topic of the f*cking evening was when it will be online again. With everybody checking every 23 seconds.
To perhaps add a dimension to the issue, imagine that one day you woke up and the roads were not functional. Many people would have a great time, as long as they knew the roads were going to be functional later that day. If it turned into a longer problem, the disruption would have vast and unpleasant consequences.
We do not yet have an awareness of our dependence on technologies, nor of how fragile those technologies can be. If someone had suggested years ago that perhaps we should prepare for a disruption in say, the egg supply, that would have provoked laughter. And jokes like, well I really don't like eggs. Or what about toilet paper hoarding? Given just those two events alone, one might decide that disruptions are at least somewhat of a possibility. That our past assumptions of an unending supply of goods and services might not hold in the future.
It is a funny comment, and there are several dependencies I personally would not miss. Until I did.
Personally, the interesting concept is resiliency in general.
> To perhaps add a dimension to the issue, imagine that one day you woke up and the roads were not functional. Many people would have a great time, as long as they knew the roads were going to be functional later that day. If it turned into a longer problem, the disruption would have vast and unpleasant consequences.
To be fair, this is a real scenario for people in snowy/and or rural areas. It isn't uncommon for people in my area of Canada to get snowed in for a few days.
On a local level, I feel like we can probably do better than just text messaging capabilities. Mesh network covering the village, with someone running mirrors of essential services in their basement (local email routing, wikipedia, etc)
Maybe for professional communications. For cases where the grid is gone, you will quickly see how quickly you stop using electricity for luxuries such as that one.
At most you will be able to charge smartphones and small devices with solar panels. Keeping a larger Wi-Fi router running only on solar? Very seldom.
The price of solar panels and batteries keeps falling. You can go an Amazon today and get a setup that can power a switch/router/AP 24/7 in winter for a few hundred dollars.
Try to avoid understanding this difficulty from your own shoes, but rather from the shoes of communities very limited on what is reachable to them from a technical, financial and logistical point of view.
I know you can solve it easily. I can solve it even more easily myself.
Now see any disaster area, see any remote area. Setting up Wi-Fi is invariably never a priority for those in such situations. Even as things settle, it is still more practical to share files directly with each other.
When you see from that perspective then you are on the domain of realistic solutions rather than keyboard level on virtual forum.
> Setting up Wi-Fi is invariably never a priority for those in such situations
The point here is to have it setup before the proverbial shit hits the fan.
Resiliency preparations are a fundamentally different ballgame to disaster recovery - you have more time and resources to prepare, your supply chains aren't broken yet, etc.
And if it has a 12-volt input, there's a good chance that can work directly from a panel between about 9 and 15, possibly even up to 20 volts. Don't quote me on that - this isn't sound engineering advice, just an idea of something that might work. If it's a 5-volt input then it probably needs a pretty accurate 5 volts. Same for NUCs and so on (again don't quote me).
You can even use a (right-sized) lead-acid battery without a charge controller, as they're pretty resilient, unlike lithium-based batteries. This will both store power for night and stabilize the voltage. The lifetime would be a bit shorter. You can literally just parallel your solar panel, battery, and whatever you want to power, and it has a pretty good chance of working.
This article makes more sense if its coming from a city where only the large telco's are present.
Here Dresden (Germany), there are several volunteer organisations who laid wires through the city or have microwave-antennas (AG DSN, Bürgernetz, Freifunk), and there is a recently founded internet exchange run by volunteers (DD-IX). So as long as we have power, we got our own internet.
* I would consider adding a T-1000 device to the recommended list of devices, it's about the size of a credit card and works very well to add Meshtastic to phones. https://www.seeedstudio.com/SenseCAP-Card-Tracker-T1000-E-fo... It's a lot easier (in my opinion) to get people to stash a radio and remember how to power it to Bluetooth then to get setup from 0 on a new device. I think I paid about 40 euros each when I bought a pair.
* I have a Starlink mini--in the event that there is ever a broadly disconnecting event I'd be happy to share access to it. I keep it pretty much exclusively for emergency use and occasional camping/rural holiday house vacations. You might want to consider one too? They're ~250 euros new, which for someone who's starting a club for anything seems like a plausible expense. I believe there's a chinese version in case you don't want to trust the whims and emotions of Musk.
* https://kiwix.org/en/applications/ is pretty useful if you'd like to have an archive of technical information, wikipedia, stack exchange etc.
* I try and keep whatever feels like the smartest open weight LLMs at the time available so if something real bad ever happened it'd still be available. I might add that idea to your preparedness list too--I'd probably take LM Studio with Gemma 3 over another random engineer on the Meshtastic channel :)
* Would you share channel config details for your IRC community? I'm happy to join.
> Note: Currently, LR1110 radios are unable to receive Meshtastic packets from the older SX127x radios, it requires a breaking change to fix this. Transmitting works and when hopping through an SX126x radio, you can still receive packets from SX127x radios.
I think that's totally fair if you're primarily working in rural/not dense communities. If you're in a major city, in practice it just doesn't matter and ease of use is king. In a disaster, everyone with a meshtastic radio has it on. Your messages will propagate just fine.
I think you still have access to whatever user-portal starlink uses, so you can unpause it that way. But I have not confirmed this, and could be mistaken. The documentation only mentions that when you are out of data you have access to that page, it doesn't mention anything about when your plan is paused.
> If you exceed the allotted data on the Roam 50GB plan and have not opted-in for additional data, you will be unable to use the internet except to access your Starlink account, from which you can add additional data or change plans.
Good point about the Starlink Mini - I need to add one to my kit too. Looks like I'll have to head back to https://gearscouts.com to find a bigger power station since the Mini pulls ~40W and my current setup won't cut it for extended use. That EcoFlow Delta 2 Max at CA$0.80/Wh is looking pretty tempting now.
I am into Meshtastic but the coverage, at least in Italy, is low and depends a lot on the position.
If you are in a city, you can get many neighbors nodes, otherwise you need to be at high altitude, relying on other nodes or use a directional antenna.
Anyway, it's a nice hobby to learn a lot about solar powered systems and antennas/propagation.
I think that one of the best use cases for Meshtastic is to use it during protests, especially in authoritarian countries.
Another thing is to update mesh stack to more modern language, to improve security and resiliency - projects like B.A.T.M.A.N, Babel, OSLR, FRRouting, etc would largely benefit from being rewritten from pure C to language like Rust.
Being "modern" is a poor excuse. Code in C can be ported to anywhere, code in your "modern" language can only be understood by a few and is not portable anymore to other languages.
Please don't confuse security with resilience, they might be connected in some dots but have fundamentally different purposes.
Why? I mean... we had many "modern languages" that are not "modern" anymore, but the code in C still works, and when rust loses the "language of the week" status, the code in C will continue to be developed, and rust will be like go, ruby and others.
Because of the memory safety, better type system, and better infrastructure of testing. There's even no well-maintained property-based testing framework for C. Rust provides all of this out of the box or with popular crates.
Sure, multiple languages do that and many more will.... will you rewrite all the software ever written to any new language that has something new? The current code works.
As someone who has done a fair bit of playing with Meshtastic in the last few months, it's worth really managing expectations... it is in no way a replacement for any sort of internet. It's a way of sending very short text messages, with a system that is really quite flaky in any kind of built-up urban environment. Don't get me wrong, it's great fun, but there's a reason stuff like Ham radio is robust.
but who has the gear, who keeps it charged, who actually shows up when the net goes dark. tech's the easy part. the hard part is getting 5 neighbors to agree on a channel, a meeting point, and a backup plan they’ll actually remember.
also, would be interesting to see people test these setups during a planned outage. like simulate a real failure for 24 hours and see what breaks. most systems look solid until you actually need them
If things go bad, you need to own the tech completely. Be able to setup a wifi hotspot with services that can help your community (wikipedia, openstreetmaps, low-res movies), or have pendrives with critical knowledge ready to be shared, etc.
The low power radio is more of a short term thing, for "what's going on" soon after the first moments of a crisis. Building long-term resilience is much harder.
IMHO, the loss of access to knowledge is much more detrimental than access to a network of people. One can eventually get you into the other, but there's only one you can actually own.
I have a WAP on my shed roof and batteries that can power my gear for a few hours without the grid. In the absence of other WiFi networks the one atop my shed would stand out as a rallying point.
(It's not switched on / connected at the moment - I tested it out during COVID lockdowns, but no one else connected since we didn't have power outages).
Mesh networks are the foundation - they are essential to disaster resilience. Then what services to run over them ?
Real time chat: wild unsecure simplicity proven to run anywhere (IRC), bells & whistles with contemporary security (Matrix), some mesh native that almost no one knows ? What about post-disaster onboarding of actual users ?
Store & forward messaging: SMTP & friends may work nicely, but with actually distributed servers - in each local disaster POP. Also needs timeout and retry parameters to keeping stuff in queues practically forever.
Forums: anything better than ol' NNTP ? Other protocols merely adopted intermittent indirect connectivity - NNTP was born in it !
Is anything more sophisticated or more interactive realistic for actual disaster ?
An onboarding kit with clients for each major OS (à la AOL CDROM !) might be handy too, for snearkernet distribution over USB dongles.
I think the point of the article is not to use that mesh network as a replacement for internet. I think the author's idea is that the mesh network would provide the "resilience club" a communication channel while they work on recovering the regular internet.
The real "resilience teams" are going to be at the telcos/ISPs, and they will have dark fibre between their networks and autonomous backup power in their data centres. They will be able to do IRC, VoIP telephony, email, etc. between their networks over statically routed point-to-point IP between their local networks even if BGP and the transit networks go down so they can "black start" the Internet. (Back in my ISP days, I remember reading about there being a private telephone network just for AS operators' NOCs to talk to one another quite independenty of the PSTN.)
For anything that takes even those out (eg. a "Big One" quake in California), you fall back to radio hams and autonomous radio links for the disaster services.
The article's author mentioned speaking with some telco people, which apparently weren't aware of any resiliency emergency plan. Maybe there's some difference between EU countries and the USA on this.
Post-disaster onboarding is complicated by app store lockdowns and the difficulty of sideloading. Heck, even establishing plain http or self-signed https connections is tricky on phones now.
I'm sure someone smarter than me has a toolkit for these things, I just don't know where to find it.
Store-and-forward-wise, NNCP is designed for this, but it's not widespread yet.
I was just thinking about this sort of thing the other day. Thinking if I need a techno 'bug out' bag, my Macs would be the most useless ones to waste the weight on because if anything happened I'd never be able to reinstall macOS without phoning home to Apple for an activation.
Throw-in a USB key with a Linux distro that works with your Mac. You could also flash Ventoy on it, so that you can have multiple distros in case you end up needing to boot some other machine.
Trouble is a Linux-on-a-key that you've never used before, is still a long way from being productive without a network to install all the packages you actually want to use.
It takes me about a month after a reinstall or new machine, to feel like I've really spread my wings and have everything installed that I initially forgot about. So I guess the recommendation would be "daily-drive it for a month before refrigerating it". And at that point, you might as well just make it your everyday machine.
Mass hysteria arguably belongs on the list of Bad Things, but I don't think it is as likely to knock out your internet or power supply for a prolonged period. Maybe more of a reason for a Toilet Roll Resiliency Club.
Mass Hysteria is seriously dangerous. A few years ago I've seen a full room of people applauding Military for ordering more tanks. ("Enough to have those shot down by Russia in the calculation"). And young German politicians being proud of it. They even said publicly "The best outcome of the Ukraine War would be reinstallment of the old German-Russian border."
Germany has the potential to go full Nazi again... And the population is mostly crazy in a scary way "We need sirens", "We need bunkers", "How can I make my pupils go for a career in the army"...
Instead of of investing time into making a mesh network. I'd like to see more energy spent on preventing real dangers. If people don't start going against the real troublemakers, loss of internet will be very low on the list of problems of the future.
And still nobody I've ever seen in public speak or comment about climate has ever read any paper on atmosphere physics... Before you build a mesh network against climate change, people should better read at least a few papers about atmosphere physics first.
Commenting on voting is against the guidelines (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html). To understand why your comment fares as it does, helps to re-read the guidelines in their entirety.
I know why my comment was downvoted, and I know what the guidelines are. I wanted to know why people were downvoting adornKey's completely reasonable comment.
GCP went down over a null pointer exception recently, taking down a good chunk of sites, and people claimed that it was the start of WW3, since obviously it would begin with an internet blackout - Meanwhile everyone is refreshing their feeds constantly to see the latest hypersonic missiles hit civilian houses in HD quality."war, geopolitics and climate change" seems like the same kind of paranoid hysteria. People just write buggy software
> "war, geopolitics and climate change" seems like the same kind of paranoid hysteria
It is until it isn't. Better not to write off these dangers and to just focus on keeping the general public in the dark to avoid mass hysteria, and treat these other threats with the required respect they deserve just in case.
If you look more, you'll most likely find more discussions. The things on StackExchange are a bit lame. There was a blog somewhere that posted about climate data for about a decade and had a discussion going on for maybe 2 months... I don't know if can find that again. Soon after the discussion of that paper the blog was pretty dead...
I remember bank run being one of the reasons why SVB failed, and also during the COVID pandemic people rushing to buy toilet paper has a terrible effect on the market.
However I don't think these cases are anywhere close to the level of widespread disruption that the list of dangers can bring.
Do you happen to know instances where mass hysteria had a similar effect on disrupting global supply chains or communication services than war, geopolitics etc?
A bank run started by our esteemed VC brethren having a mass panic attack, then getting their own money out, then telling people they had a financial stake in to get their money out, et voila your bank is now running.
I tried to parse it by reading the intro and the conclusion. Is it trying to say some of the heating effects will be potentially saturated and limited when co2 increases, decreasing temperature? York and Princeton seem legit but don't know about how well received this is
They're saying "The effects of the first ton of CO2 dumped into the atmosphere is much higher than the effects of the next ton. Now there's so much CO2 in the atmosphere that dumping any more into it will have a negligible effect."
The implication is "There's no need to worry about CO2 at this point, it's already done the damage it can, so let's call our global warming concerns off". But the models may be suspect (see my other post), so I wouldn't go celebrate just yet. Let's at least wait for peer review or submission to a notable journal to see how well received it is.
The essence is that each frequency alone is eventually saturated. (can't absorb more than everything). If you add more CO2 you'll start to absorb more in new frequencies, but the effect is getting smaller. To calculate how much the numbers add up, there is HITRAN-Database with a lot of data about the absorption lines.
About these calculations there's interesting material out there. I think there's even software to download, and feed with a download of HITRAN-Data.
At the beginning of COVID many countries had toilet paper shortages because of mass hysteria. Now imagine how ugly things would get if there wasn't enough food to go around. It's not that far fetched if there's a supply chain disruption. There's no secret food reserves at supermarkets, they sell products just-in-time.
Watch her 10-minute RIPE 90 talk and then listen to the first "question" for a short tutorial on how to behave like a prick: dude didn't even have a question, just wanted to let everyone know how much he knew about a somewhat related subject
that is one of my pet peeves: people who try to dominate discussions or make them about themselves (you might notice they say "I" a lot)
another way you might see it manifest: a simple question is asked, and without pausing to hear the answer, the questioner then goes on a long speech about their personal experiences and why they're asking the question and what the meaning of the question is etc etc, rephrasing the question several different times along the way
if you're actually interested in learning the answer to your question: *think* about the question first; compress it into 1 short sentence (5-10 seconds long) ending in a question mark; say it; and as soon as you hit the question mark, immediately be silent so the answerer can actually answer the question and get to other questioners
if you're worried they might not understand the question that way: do it anyways, and if they don't, wait for a chance to ask again (after others have had theirs)
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[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 294 ms ] threadMaybe walkie talkies too? Pretty simple to use!
The way I read this, it's more about what is needed to get services back up after a large scale loss of critical infrastructure: communication to other network/internet/infrastructure professionals.
Renting dedicated hardware is expensive though. I'm taking a financial hit for my paranoia.
Kiwix is the best software I have found for this and they make an extensive library of materials available for download themselves, which includes the aforementioned but also many other resources that would be helpful in a disaster scenario: https://library.kiwix.org/
To remember: LoRa only permits small text messages. Don't even think about images, voice nor binary files (I mean it).
Another option is APRS using satellite connections through a cheap chinese walkie-talkie (Quangsheng UV-K5) for 20 euros to send text messages.
From her article:
> Their answer was both depressing and freeing: “You can’t. All you can do is be prepared with tools and a plan for when the crisis arrives. That’s when the organization will listen.”
That is so sad, but also, so true.
I was fortunate to have worked for a company that is over 100 years old, and that had weathered a couple of wars, depression, recession, market disruption, etc.
They were about as open to disaster planning as anyone, but they could also be head-in-the-sand knuckleheads. The biggest thing was the company had a fiscal and cultural conservative bent; quite unusual in the tech industry, these days.
Anyone that has managed a DR system, knows how difficult it is to get support. Disaster Recovery is expensive, resource-intensive, and difficult to test. It is also stuff people don’t want to think about. Sort of like insurance.
+ Quangsheng UV-K5 + Android phone with 3.5 mm audio jack + APRSdroid installed
Forget about LoRa, that is basically a toy. It is far more useful to have a functioning walkie talkie capable of talking with satellites and other stations at 50 kilometers of range.
In either case, jamming is a possibility.
In a real scenario these things work. Please don't fall into "what if's" which are exotic and confused as things bigger than what they are.
I've always been interested in helping folks that help folks.
I started looking at Meshtastic, some years ago, but found the ecosystem to be a bit overly-complex, as is often the case, with "Swiss Army Knife" approaches.
Best thing is the android app combo with the walkie-talkie. Tends to give a usable setup that works for voice and data.
It is true that you will not be able to jam the _downlink_ frequency outside local areas.
But due to the FM capture effect, anyone else in the same hemisphere with a basic 100w transmitter (and appropriate antenna) on the _uplink_ frequency will be able to deny the satellite service to all the 5W Baofeng radios that preppers are stockpiling.
Look: if someone is jamming something with a 100 watt transmitter which causes impact on the adversary, that location is quickly bombed because it is now a giant beacon that advertises its position.
I'll even throw a cheap appeal to authority and mention that I've done this stuff professionally in the military for a decade. I'll still trust more on the usability of my cheap walkie-talkie capable of +50km range and satellite texts than an exotic LoRa used on the ground by few internet warriors.
APRS is friendly enough to permit sending messages using normal internet and receiving messages from friends while on the outdoors. However, all of this requires practice and know-how.
You’re not going to reliably get that without terrestrial infrastructure, unless both you and your correspondent are conveniently standing on mountaintops.
5km in the suburbs, maybe. Closer to 500m at street level in an urban environment.
The network itself does far more than what other projects were doing and is being fast adopted across Europe.
Then please educate me, I'm listening.
The video is a promotion for Meshcore.
But I'm not sure that's necessarily a negative. Meshcore does seem to be a good thing.
The one issue, from my limited understanding, is that Meshocore doesn't seem to have integrated positional data, which would be very important for things like emergency response efforts.
APRS is a bit better, because it requires ham licences and (usually) a bit more expensive equipment, but with "SmartBeaconing" and just a few hams, you get collisions (multiple people transmitting at the same time, effectively jamming eachother).
Reddit is usually full of preppers and other idiots buying these cheap chinese radios, usually without any knowledge and licences (that are needed to use them), and in turn they know nothing about actual use of those devices.... simplex range in urban environment is measured in hundreds of meters or maybe one or two large buildings between radioss, and repeaters will be in use by actual emergency servics and not really usable for any kind of "private use".
tldr: get a few books, a pack of cards, wait it out, not so long ago being unreachable away from home was the norm, and we managed.
Portugal was for 24 hours without electricity. LoRa networks were jammed and non-operational because the bandwidth is limited. APRS kept working.
It is far better to have a walkie-talkie that you can use as PMR on the 446 range and use for satellite text messages than an expensive toy that very few use.
And as you also know: You do NOT require a radio license when operating under emergency situations, which is the context on this case.
In portugal? Yes, you need one. Probably in every other EU country too
In USA too.
I have no idea where people got the myth of not needing a licence in emergencies, probably due to not reading the actual rules.
Also, you cannot use the same device for PMR and ham radio bands, the PMR device needs to be certified for PMR use, that means that it can only transmit on pmr frequencies and nowhere else. Other devices (eg. ham radio) cannot be used on PMR frequencies.
It's not FUD, it's regulation which exists for good reason, because in cases of actual emergencies, trained ham operators can assist actual emergency services with communication, and that's impossible if every idiot with a baofeng jams the channels.
In Portugal you are legally permitted to use channel 9 (27.065 MHz) in addition to the PMR channels. The hard line has always been on public safety bands. From a long time cooperation with the authorities (especially around the Azores) there was always an informal permission for that kind of usage across boats and islands because communication is difficult there.
Last but not least: taking the radio license exam is NOT a drama. Anyone can apply and get the radio license when they are serious into this topic.
Channel 9 is a CB channel, and neither quanshengs nor baofengs work on those frequencies at all, but you need a certified/type-accepted CB radio to use on that frequency.
Same with PMR, you need a PMR radio to use on pmr frequencies.
It's not FUD, it's just hardware limits and regulation.
Yes, 12yo kids can get an amateur radio licence, it's easy, but you still need a licence to transmit on ham bands, and you still cannot legally use a baofeng (except the few pmr models) or a quansheng on PMR frequencies, those radios don't transmit on cb freqencies at all, and there are no legal "you don't need a licence in an emergency" exceptions.
You will in turn have to share the road with him in the same way as other radio amateurs (and possibly rescue services) will have to share the spectrum with you. You transmitting on a repeaters input frequency without a subtone set will in turn jam the repeater (PLL is before the TSQL) will make communications impossible in the same way as your neigbor stuck in the middle of the road with a burnt clutch will make driving impossible for others.
But hey, stay lazy, don't get a licence, i'm sure you'll be able to figure it all out fast when you're knee deep in flood waters.
This fact alone is incredibly important to at the very minimum known what the heck is going on. Suddenly you have a cheap device in your hands that can receive updates relevant to survivors and victims.
In Portugal exist the 3-3-3 plans for anyone to practice using a radio. These are regular-weekly sessions with a lot of people joining.
In most countries emergency services have moved over to tetra or dmr, with encryption, and all the public related info is broadcasted on "normal" broadcast fm, where you need a normal fm radio, not a ham transciever.
In Portugal +90% of tetra stopped working. DMR only locally.
Satellite APRS continued working. Who will listen? Well, those from north to south on the country were listening. More important, they were listening who was still active because those were the stations running with their own energy because even FM stations started to go down quickly as the generators ran out of fuel.
Had the blackdown lasted a week, those with a 20 euros walkie-talkies would very likely be the only ones still capable of +50 km distance communications and +1700 km reach using satellite APRS text messages.
Try to see from it from that perspective. You really won't have electricity nor cellphone coverage and not even FM in such scenario.. It's all gone.
Even if you do, a radio by itself is useless unless you can trust the people on the other end.
Perhaps your generator won’t start. A voice on the radio sounds like a mechanic and claims you need a new spark plug. He can offer you one if you can meet him in a neighborhood 3 minutes from your house. Is this a benevolent actor with small engine expertise and a garage full of spare parts? A well meaning elderly man with dementia? An opportunist luring you into a robbery?
You lose a tremendous tactical advantage in this situation if you’ve never met any local radio operators, gotten a sense of where they live and what they do for a living. Some are skilled experts. Some are blowhards who confidently give bad advice. Some live near you. Some are 100 miles away. You can figure it out, but it takes time that you don’t have in the middle of a disaster.
Get your license. Join your local Amateur Radio Club. Use your radio to chat with someone at least once a week. If you have signal quality issues, experiment with upgrading your equipment. Then the radio in your bug out bag will be of some value to you.
Human networks can be stronger than radio waves, join your local radio club.
You should worry about knowing the procedures, the channels, how to engage in communication with the hardware available to you.
Now the best way is to get licenced and drive (=use a radio) in "normal" cirumstances to get experienced before an emergency. Somehow 12yo kids manage to get licenced, but preppers can't.
Parent is referring to the “Safety of life and protection of property” rule [0].
[O]: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D...
This rules applies to:
> the use by an amateur station
Not every billy and bobby with a baofeng are an amateur station.
Luckily, at the beginning of part 97 there are definitions of such words (you have to open the full document, not just this article)
> Amateur station. A station in an amateur radio service consisting of the apparatus necessary for carrying on radiocommunications.
So, for something to be an "amateur station", you need an "apparatus" (some kind of radio transmitter) and it has to be a part of "amateur radio service". That too is defined in the same document:
> Amateur radio services. The amateur service, the amateur-satellite service and the radio amateur civil emergency service.
It's not RACES (that's defined below), not satellite, so let's see what "amateur service is", again, definition in the same document
> Amateur service. A radiocommunication service for the purpose of self-training, intercommunication and technical investigations carried out by amateurs, that is, duly authorized persons interested in radio technique solely with a personal aim and without pecuniary interest.
So, for that rule to apply, you need a device (an apparatus), that has to be used for self-training etc (read above), for noncommercial, personal aim by a licenced ("duly authorized") person. Only then can you break other rules (eg power limits) in situations described in rule 403 you linked above.
Without a licence, a radio is just a radio, eg. a business band radio (like many motorolas are), and nothing in the part 97 (regulating amateur radio) applies to the user of that radio. Only when a licenced ham uses that (or any other radio, or even a homemade transmitter), in a specific way (described above) that "just-a-radio" becomes an amateur station.
With the license, there are ham repeaters for FM and DMR. My cheap Chinese radio can reach the repeater 15km away.
It also supports APRS, but only for sending beacons. I can't really test it as there aren't repeaters around.
In either case, they are a good competitor.
Because it would likely violate the restrictions setup for the LoRa frequency. Using a normal walkie-talkie has none of those limitations while being cheaper and more versatile.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WRNTkbRuCI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdHB_5Z_CFE
Starlink is much simpler for the average consumer to setup than what this article suggests.
A mesh network and federated services will not rely on one actor or server. And if you are in middle of no where and only a random guy from Texas is hosting, then maybe start your own node if he is unreliable.
Resiliency isn't found by relying on corporations who are subject to interference by foreign nations.
This WiFi offers a low-data-rate (<5-10 mbit/s) service to seniors for free or a very low fee (~3€/month), without service guarantees, but honest best-effort.
In the case when an internet problem arises, which affects the city's it-infrastructure, the city can switch to this WiFi to have their city-wide services still interconnected, while the seniors get kicked off of the network during this time.
I dunno.... as I get older, this sounds more and more idyllic
I think the subject of the thread is pretty clearly how to deal with interruptions that won't resolve themselves in a short time. It's on you that you choose to ignore that and focus on "was it pretty for a milisecond?"
Now we've gotten to "Ok the claim was admittedly not true but it's your fault for pointing it out instead of going along with the groupthink" Is this the post-truth society we hear about?
The sub-thread was very clearly started by the idea that loss of connectivity might not be as bad as assumed, there was space to have some debate about what positives could be taken and how we could actually prepare to live with outages alongside preparing to negate them.
I didn't think much of it honestly, the original point of it not being so bad, but your comment has left me with the feeling that the internet can't fall soon enough.
The places that don't have the fallback ready access to fallback diesel genset, like rural South Sudan or Burundi, are pretty close to an end of the world scenario.
Don't romanticise disaster. If a developed country indefinitely lost power, a huge swathe of the population would die, starting with the infants, elderly, and chronically ill. Then hunger and disease would come for the rest. Nonsense ideas that we'd MacGyver or bushcraft our way out of trouble are infantile.
That can get you sterile water, although it's extremely difficult to do and involves many more rocks than you'd imagine easily 5x the mass of rock to water to get a rolling boil for a full minute, but it doesn't get you clean water. Now you have sterile water with a lot of potentially very unpleasant dissolved solids. Certainly not something you'll be using to feed an infant.
Still, all the ancillary services that go into a hospital like water, sewage, medical gasses, cold chains, etc are all dependent on the grid, as are the people who make them work. If a large-scale outage happens, most hospitals will start losing patients within 24-48 hours and will close as functioning hospitals well within a week.
I'm not sure how far into "prepper" that makes me. I don't have a store of canned food or weapons or a generator. I started down this track to keep my home lab (on which I self-host a bunch of stuff) online / protected through outages.
Additionally, the city in which I live has an ad-hoc amateur WiFi setup which connects over several kilometres. I used to be a member a long time ago but, ironically (in this context) getting fiber internet meant I kinda lost interest. It's one of those things that had just never gotten back to the top of my priority list: https://air-stream.org/
Feels like they're ahead of game on this topic.
If you own a house I'd look into very old school options like digging a deep hole to store your food in a dark&cool place - forgot the name for it but it'll work for weeks or months without a single milliwatt
Or if you want to get technical I guess "root cellar".
https://www.notechmagazine.com/category/refrigeration
Refrigeration is top priority and I would happily buy solar panels just to keep it working (plus leeching a few watts for my phone).
It's terrible in a society-collapse way - makes you a target.
A target for what? People to come charge their phone at your house?
Why would you be a target if 50%+ of population have solar setups?
This is a hollywood meme.
The reality is that aggressive looters/warlords will be very quickly disposed of and the remaining ones will fall in line and become semi-official protective militia forces, who will labor alongside farmers in small communities if they don't want to starve.
Food scarcity will be a much bigger issue that some nutcase trying to loot my solar panels.
Which is to say, normal people really don't like shooting each other, and they REALLY don't like being shot at, so most normal folks would eliminate the threat of crazy warlords first, then form some kind of organized militia group to repel small groups of raiders/thieves.
Any large group of raiders would very quickly fall victim to its own internal politics and lack of resources, because they don't produce anything. You can't have a group that's 100% raiders.
It's just not going to look like Mad Max, ever. Sorry to disappoint.
Cities are not setup to support their current populations without those services and once you run out of buffer things go downhill quick - wastewater is an enormous and immediate disease hazard.
Otherwise you're throwing out all fresh food, supermarkets couldn't process payments nor most restaurants either, etc.
Hangover from the port.
Instead of doing drugs or chatting, I'd read a book on my Kobo.
The thing with the stuff you mentioned. I already drank enough alcohol jn my life to not bother with it anymore. Same with card games. And random chitchat.
We actually saw the effect of downtime during covid. In the beginning, a massive appreciation for health services. We all know how long that lasted. In the beginning, it was us against the virus. Eventually, we were fighting with each other, even over details. Rest assured, offensive propaganda services from secret agencies learned a lot from that (one may guess which one primarily).
If it was so awesome that wine drinking and chit-chat, why aren't we doing it? A pretty simple explanation is: because it ain't awesome. Yes, a change of pace can be regarded as a fun challenge or change of pace. Heck, it may even open up people to changing their life. But look how much we remote work post covid. Policies were reverted.
It seems to me that these modern anti-social tendencies are actively driving a wedge between most people and their surroundings, making people further isolated from each other. Young people tend to spend time in doors alone because they don't know _how_ to interact with strangers. But they should because being alone is literally damaging to your health.
Being far away from friends is bad for you[1]. Being socially isolated is bad for you. Promoting a lifestyle in which you don't have friends and don't talk to strangers is akin to promoting a lifestyle in which you don't exercise.
It's not "awesome", it's a necessary component of living healthily as a human being.
[1] https://www.cdc.gov/social-connectedness/risk-factors/index.... - I found this source from the CDC but there are numerous others
That much anyone can figure, and my point is, that threshold of sustainable density can be way lower than commonly thought. We're just too used to it, like we're used to burning fossil fuel. There might be a "peak density", hopefully after population growth resumed on the high orbit and beyond.
I doubt everything would be as idyllic as you describe if the blackout went for longer.
But if the power, and the gas stations, don't work anywhere. It won't take long before we start running out of food and other utilities start to fail.
Now nobody else can get more fuel for their generators when the gas stations don’t have power either.
This was a big issue during the power shutoffs during LA fires this year.
Requiring every single one of them to invest in a 5-6 figure power backup solution with hundreds or thousands in yearly maintenance costs, so they can sell their lowest margin product to accommodate those who can't plan ahead during a disaster that happens maybe once in a decade event is pretty absurd.
Ready.gov has instructions.
> Should everyone have several hundred gallons of gasoline stored in their garage just incase?
oh, c'mon.
Do you or any one person you know use several hundred gallons of gas over the course of a few days on critical things? If that is the case, then yes, by all means you should have a private gasoline backup supply since you are running some sort of industrial scale operation.
If you are worried about it, just make sure you have a several day supply of gasoline on hand. For most people that use about a tank of gas per week that means filling up when you are at half tank. For those of us, like me, who live in a place where a generator is occasionally useful, a couple of jerry cans full of gas are typically already on hand. Hundreds of gallons could keep me powered up for weeks at a minimum unless I was really trying to use a lot of power.
For most people, gasoline is used exclusively for their car, which has a multi-day gas supply storage mechanism built in.
Lets say we require all gas stations to have the ability to pump gas during a blackout. Then what? It doesn't solve any of your hypotheticals. Without a beefy generator and a professional crossover switch, you aren't powering your home with gasoline. What is a working gas station going to do for a renter, or apartment dweller?
In any case. If things get actually desperate, it isn't that hard for a handy person to wire a generator up on the spot, and get gas pumping, although at that point, what are the chances that the payment network is online. At that point you can just run the pump by hand if it's truly desperate.
> Suggesting individuals prepare for this seems equally absurd, does it not?
Not absurd at all. Experts and the government actually suggest that people do some of their own preparations for disasters. They suggest that you have enough on hand to survive for 48 hours without outside help. There are entire government initiatives, campaigns and organizations based on this exact premise. Check out Ready.gov for the USA federal version. You can probably find state and local level initiatives where you are too, if in the US. Almost every large, multi-day, regional blackout in living memory is weather related, which also means it is predictable.
If disaster strikes, you never worry about the gas you have.
When shit goes down, people need to be able to get fuel. The populace at large is never going to be prepared enough to deal with every gas station in the area going down. Raise the cost of gas by 10 cents to cover the costs. If every station is mandated to do so then they won’t have any issues with the margins as they will simply all raise prices in concert.
It sounds like there wasn't really a problem with gas availability, in your case. You were able to get enough gas to comfortably power a generator with no preparation during one of the biggest emergencies the city has ever seen. During the LA fires, the power cuts were to small enough areas that you could have just driven to a different area of the city. That sounds inconvenient, but hardly worth the effort of building independent power generation sources for the 10k+ gas stations in your state.
A far better solution is to do what we do in my part of Canada: a competently run power company that doesn't arbitrarily shut off power due to failing infrastructure setting billions of dollars worth of city on fire. We don't have PSPS's despite living in a very fire prone place with extreme weather because our infrastructure is maintained much better.
Instead of forcing everyone to subsidize individual power plants for gas stations to do long tail risk mitigation, California should maybe invest in a grid that doesn't regularly cause billion dollar fires.
It's hard for me to imagine gas station convenience stores doing enough volume for this to make any business sense.
While I can count on one hand the number of times I walk into the store at a gas station in a given year, I know others who buy things on a daily basis, to the point that they’re on a first name basis with everyone there and the employees start asking questions if a few days go buy without a visit.
... I suppose it takes all kinds.
The business model for a typical gas station is to bring people in with competitively priced gas, since people are incredibly price sensitive to gas, and then make money with high margin c-store items. Most of the things in a c-store have triple digit margins. That's why you'll see plenty of c-stores without gas stations, but its pretty rare to see a gas station that doesn't have a business attached.
Maybe some sort of bias but I also view things this way.
I left that 'party' quite early.
We do not yet have an awareness of our dependence on technologies, nor of how fragile those technologies can be. If someone had suggested years ago that perhaps we should prepare for a disruption in say, the egg supply, that would have provoked laughter. And jokes like, well I really don't like eggs. Or what about toilet paper hoarding? Given just those two events alone, one might decide that disruptions are at least somewhat of a possibility. That our past assumptions of an unending supply of goods and services might not hold in the future.
It is a funny comment, and there are several dependencies I personally would not miss. Until I did.
Personally, the interesting concept is resiliency in general.
To be fair, this is a real scenario for people in snowy/and or rural areas. It isn't uncommon for people in my area of Canada to get snowed in for a few days.
Why did you cut out that part?
At most you will only be able to start a few Android-phone hotpspots and share files. That is the reality of it.
At most you will be able to charge smartphones and small devices with solar panels. Keeping a larger Wi-Fi router running only on solar? Very seldom.
Try to avoid understanding this difficulty from your own shoes, but rather from the shoes of communities very limited on what is reachable to them from a technical, financial and logistical point of view.
I know you can solve it easily. I can solve it even more easily myself.
Now see any disaster area, see any remote area. Setting up Wi-Fi is invariably never a priority for those in such situations. Even as things settle, it is still more practical to share files directly with each other.
When you see from that perspective then you are on the domain of realistic solutions rather than keyboard level on virtual forum.
The point here is to have it setup before the proverbial shit hits the fan.
Resiliency preparations are a fundamentally different ballgame to disaster recovery - you have more time and resources to prepare, your supply chains aren't broken yet, etc.
It will not be a problem at all to power it completely on a small 100W panel.
You can even use a (right-sized) lead-acid battery without a charge controller, as they're pretty resilient, unlike lithium-based batteries. This will both store power for night and stabilize the voltage. The lifetime would be a bit shorter. You can literally just parallel your solar panel, battery, and whatever you want to power, and it has a pretty good chance of working.
Here Dresden (Germany), there are several volunteer organisations who laid wires through the city or have microwave-antennas (AG DSN, Bürgernetz, Freifunk), and there is a recently founded internet exchange run by volunteers (DD-IX). So as long as we have power, we got our own internet.
* I have a Starlink mini--in the event that there is ever a broadly disconnecting event I'd be happy to share access to it. I keep it pretty much exclusively for emergency use and occasional camping/rural holiday house vacations. You might want to consider one too? They're ~250 euros new, which for someone who's starting a club for anything seems like a plausible expense. I believe there's a chinese version in case you don't want to trust the whims and emotions of Musk. * https://kiwix.org/en/applications/ is pretty useful if you'd like to have an archive of technical information, wikipedia, stack exchange etc.
* I try and keep whatever feels like the smartest open weight LLMs at the time available so if something real bad ever happened it'd still be available. I might add that idea to your preparedness list too--I'd probably take LM Studio with Gemma 3 over another random engineer on the Meshtastic channel :)
* Would you share channel config details for your IRC community? I'm happy to join.
> Note: Currently, LR1110 radios are unable to receive Meshtastic packets from the older SX127x radios, it requires a breaking change to fix this. Transmitting works and when hopping through an SX126x radio, you can still receive packets from SX127x radios.
https://meshtastic.org/docs/hardware/devices/seeed-studio/se...
Its range is also much worse than the T-Echo's.
> You have the ability to pause and unpause service at any time, with billing occurring monthly.
Source: https://www.starlink.com/support/article/dd5b43b5-20e1-b29b-...
> If you exceed the allotted data on the Roam 50GB plan and have not opted-in for additional data, you will be unable to use the internet except to access your Starlink account, from which you can add additional data or change plans.
Anyway, it's a nice hobby to learn a lot about solar powered systems and antennas/propagation.
I think that one of the best use cases for Meshtastic is to use it during protests, especially in authoritarian countries.
For protest there are already bluetooth messenger for that:
https://briarproject.org
but yeah it is only for Android.
At present there simply exist no good BLE messengers any more since recent updates to the BLE stack.
Please don't confuse security with resilience, they might be connected in some dots but have fundamentally different purposes.
also, would be interesting to see people test these setups during a planned outage. like simulate a real failure for 24 hours and see what breaks. most systems look solid until you actually need them
If things go bad, you need to own the tech completely. Be able to setup a wifi hotspot with services that can help your community (wikipedia, openstreetmaps, low-res movies), or have pendrives with critical knowledge ready to be shared, etc.
The low power radio is more of a short term thing, for "what's going on" soon after the first moments of a crisis. Building long-term resilience is much harder.
IMHO, the loss of access to knowledge is much more detrimental than access to a network of people. One can eventually get you into the other, but there's only one you can actually own.
(It's not switched on / connected at the moment - I tested it out during COVID lockdowns, but no one else connected since we didn't have power outages).
Real time chat: wild unsecure simplicity proven to run anywhere (IRC), bells & whistles with contemporary security (Matrix), some mesh native that almost no one knows ? What about post-disaster onboarding of actual users ?
Store & forward messaging: SMTP & friends may work nicely, but with actually distributed servers - in each local disaster POP. Also needs timeout and retry parameters to keeping stuff in queues practically forever.
Forums: anything better than ol' NNTP ? Other protocols merely adopted intermittent indirect connectivity - NNTP was born in it !
Is anything more sophisticated or more interactive realistic for actual disaster ?
An onboarding kit with clients for each major OS (à la AOL CDROM !) might be handy too, for snearkernet distribution over USB dongles.
For anything that takes even those out (eg. a "Big One" quake in California), you fall back to radio hams and autonomous radio links for the disaster services.
I'm sure someone smarter than me has a toolkit for these things, I just don't know where to find it.
Store-and-forward-wise, NNCP is designed for this, but it's not widespread yet.
It takes me about a month after a reinstall or new machine, to feel like I've really spread my wings and have everything installed that I initially forgot about. So I guess the recommendation would be "daily-drive it for a month before refrigerating it". And at that point, you might as well just make it your everyday machine.
Even if there were, it may be orthogonal to the anti-theft online Activation feature that wpm was talking about.
I had no idea. I guess this refers to app-store rules? Related to https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/manifest/applicat... and https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security/preventin... ?
Or is it even hard to browse to http webpages? (No problem on iOS that I see.)
Is this scalable?
There is also a version with Rak chip instead that ESP32, that is a lot less power hungry and it's perfect for a solar powered module.
Germany has the potential to go full Nazi again... And the population is mostly crazy in a scary way "We need sirens", "We need bunkers", "How can I make my pupils go for a career in the army"...
Instead of of investing time into making a mesh network. I'd like to see more energy spent on preventing real dangers. If people don't start going against the real troublemakers, loss of internet will be very low on the list of problems of the future.
And still nobody I've ever seen in public speak or comment about climate has ever read any paper on atmosphere physics... Before you build a mesh network against climate change, people should better read at least a few papers about atmosphere physics first.
It is until it isn't. Better not to write off these dangers and to just focus on keeping the general public in the dark to avoid mass hysteria, and treat these other threats with the required respect they deserve just in case.
However I don't think these cases are anywhere close to the level of widespread disruption that the list of dangers can bring.
Do you happen to know instances where mass hysteria had a similar effect on disrupting global supply chains or communication services than war, geopolitics etc?
The implication is "There's no need to worry about CO2 at this point, it's already done the damage it can, so let's call our global warming concerns off". But the models may be suspect (see my other post), so I wouldn't go celebrate just yet. Let's at least wait for peer review or submission to a notable journal to see how well received it is.
About these calculations there's interesting material out there. I think there's even software to download, and feed with a download of HITRAN-Data.
another way you might see it manifest: a simple question is asked, and without pausing to hear the answer, the questioner then goes on a long speech about their personal experiences and why they're asking the question and what the meaning of the question is etc etc, rephrasing the question several different times along the way
if you're actually interested in learning the answer to your question: *think* about the question first; compress it into 1 short sentence (5-10 seconds long) ending in a question mark; say it; and as soon as you hit the question mark, immediately be silent so the answerer can actually answer the question and get to other questioners
if you're worried they might not understand the question that way: do it anyways, and if they don't, wait for a chance to ask again (after others have had theirs)