Ask YC: Meditation Advice

59 points by andr ↗ HN
I am getting a lot of stress lately and have trouble focusing, so I'm looking to start meditating to help my case. I failed to find something useful on searchyc.com. My only experience with this are the 5-minute meditations a professor made us do in class. I am basically failing to see the difference between meditation and sitting on the couch and watching empty space for a couple of minutes.

So, what is the hacker way to meditation? Do you have any tips as to how to approach it? Thanks!

79 comments

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try biofeedback... with meditation type exercises... search for WildDivine I think...

I found it helpful..

That looks useful, but I would prefer not to have to sit in front of the computer.
Agree and understand.. after brief basic use can use the biofeedback feature alone (i no longer use the "game" aspects) with simple finger clip... (get "grapher" option) and then may not even need that...
Best meditation advice I got was completely unexpected so I took it to heart. It was in a footnote in a book called "Ventriloquism For The Total Dummy".

1) Dark room. Dark.

2) Lie in bed or on the floor.

3) Breathe.

4) More slowly.

5) Nope, slower. Hold it in tension.

6) Concentrate on breathing. This is not a nap.

I would add:

7) Practice. This isn't magic. You are trying to get your body & brain to do something. It's not something it just does regularly by itself. Think of it as exercise.

This is good advice. I learned Transcendental Meditation a while ago and found that it did relieve stress. I also found that when I was tired I would fall asleep instead of meditating since that's what my body needed. I try and do it when I first wake up in the morning for 20 minutes and again sometime before dinner. Sleep and exercise are also good at reducing stress, but I have definitely found that meditation helps me to relax and reframe my perceptions.
You have to realize it IS different than staring into empty space. The breathing is the most important part, as aristus mentioned. Just try some deep belly breathing with your eyes closed for five minutes. The effects can be drastic. Good luck.
if you're looking for yogic meditation, then its true essence lies in the breathing technics.

There are variations to the breathing technics - so its important that you do a little research on it rather than just randomly trying out something.

Search for 'baba ramdev' in google/youtube - he's a yoga guru in India who's achieved cult status.

Have you read "Autobiography of a Yogi"? I'm half way through the book and am loving it.
This book tells about so many miracles that I mostly appreciated it for its weirdness.

I liked the part where the immortal himalaya yogi instantly makes a palace appear, walks in it for a while with his pupil, and makes it disappear again. The point was just to get rid of a desire for luxury that remained in the pupil's karma (or something like that).

Meditation isn't a silver bullet. If you're not sleeping enough, you should do that first. If you're not exercising enough, do that second.
I do internal martial arts (Which are Chinese arts which partake of Chi Gung a bit '(Xingyi Bagua T'ai Chi)) in a class where we actually hit each other--near full strength, but slowly. There's nothing like it, in my experience, for stress relief; it's far beyond static meditation or hitting the open road on my motorcycle or dancing at a club.

Having a punch completely take your equilibrium because you let your mind get trapped in an analysis paralysis loop is a wonderfully effective biofeedback mechanism.

In my experience, punches take your equilibrium due to physics, not your thoughts on the punch...
If you were an inert body that could be the case, but given our ability to react to the environment there is a big difference between a punch you are expecting and one that catches you unprepared.
I don't think I'll be able to explain it to your satisfaction with words; if I had a good CAD program with a skeletal model that'd show heat-maps for the amount of pressure applied across various bones, joints, and connective tissue I could probably get closer: holding and moving your body in a way that keeps the soft tissue deformation from strikes as shallow as possible, while minimizing skeletal deviation from a stable but agile base is the key.

The trick, of course, is that nobody's fast enough to do that kind of calculation in the middle of a fight. A simplifying model helps--the most popular model involves "chi"--but even using that model, conscious analytic thought is too slow for anything but mostly-scripted practice.

Yes, you summed it up nicely. A "simplifying model".

In other words, chi may be magic fairy mysticism, but if you believe it, at least temporarily, it works anyway.

I've spent a lot of years doing both "internal" and "external" arts.

Even though I've always 'known better', I've still been tossed on my ass more than a handful of times by a soft arts practitioner, once or twice by a guy who was almost 80 years old.

It's an interesting thing, you can get tossed around for a couple of reasons:

One, you can be a subconsciously willing partner - even if you don't realize it, you want your partner to succeed because it validates what you're spending your time doing.

And two, your partner cheats and uses force in a sly way.

Taiji, Xingyi and Bagua guys are absolute masters at body mechanics. After lots of years spent practicing, they know as much about body leverage as a lot of judo guys. It can be shocking, and your body often won't realize what's happened because it encounters an overload - there's a foot and two hands touching you all of the sudden, and your brain doesn't know what to make of the sudden stimulus when you're already in a mentally stressed state. I honestly don't think that a lot of the practitioners even realize it, hence the devotion to "chi flow".

I've spent many many years studying kinetics as it relates to power generation, and the internal artists are amazingly good at it; it's just not immediately obvious what they are doing.

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  > The trick, of course, is that nobody's fast enough
  > to do that kind of calculation in the middle of a fight.
Indeed. And not only that, but the time that it takes to observe an incoming punch and instruct your muscles to make an appropriate reaction (even if you know exactly what you wanted to do already) is on the order of 100-250 msec. If the punch comes faster than that, you are doomed.

Fortunately, there is a simple solution to the paradox: you learn to anticipate what your opponent is going to do so you can start your response before they even initiate their movement.

Chi probably helps too.

Sounds fun. How do you learn, and can you recommend a source?
It's tricky; plenty of T'ai Chi schools focus on the chi gung applications and ignore fighting. Some schools that do focus on practical applications go so far in debunking the mysticism that they throw the baby out with the bathwater. Googling here in Tampa Bay for the less popular internal martial arts* found me my school, which is called Clear Silat. Its nominal focus is Pentjak Silat; but after learning the basics, Xingyi, Systema, and eventually Bagua find their way in.

*Xingyi(quan)|Hsing-I Chuan, Bagua(zhang)|Pa Kua Chang, Liu He Ba Fa, and Meihuazhuang are Chinese internal arts. Systema is a Russian art that shares a lot with Tai Chi, but substitutes specialized calisthenics for chi gung, and guarantees you learn how to get punched. Pentjak Silat is an Indonesian art--actually a large group of arts, like Kung Fu--with a lot of fun knife and machete work.

Personally I find any activity which forces you to lose that constant mind chatter to be very relaxing. My favourites are sparring (Brazilian Jiu Jitsu), weight lifting and Life Drawing. I guess it's that old 'flow' thing.

The nice thing about exercise is it will help you sleep better, which I find is half the battle in trying to maintain focus (especially for us programmers who spend most of the day sitting at a desk).

Lifting is good.

I took a blacksmithing class the other day, and that was excellent.

this. for the vast majority of people, meditation does not relieve stress. its good for other purposes, but not heavy-duty stress relief. and this comes from someone who meditated almost daily for several years.

in general, the best ways to relieve stress follow the rule of thumb: "take care of yourself". sleep long/well enough, exercise, eat right, ensure personal health (go to doctor/dentist, get a massage, etc.), and take the time to do the things you enjoy.

Seconded. In my experience, meditation can lead you into some wonderful states of consciousness, but its effects on stress reduction are relatively minor compared to other options e.g. getting enough sleep, exercising, eating a healthy diet, removing causes of unnecessary stress.
I think you're overgeneralizing, especially 100 various things can be understood under the term "meditation". There is a program for mindfulness-based stress reduction using meditation as one of the elements, with scientifically proven effects: http://www.mindfullivingprograms.com/whatMBSR.php

Addressing the original question, this is an exceptional introduction: http://www.amazon.com/Miracle-Mindfulness-Thich-Nhat-Hanh/dp...

yoga is a form of exercise, so it has higher success rates than meditation alone.
and if you're not having (much) sex, you should do that third.
Mind Performance Hacks by Ron Hale-Evans has a bunch of recipes which deal with meditation. You could probably get it on http://safari.informit.com I think the first couple of weeks is free.

Fourfold Breath is the basic technique. Or google pranayama yoga. I idea is to control your breathing and through that control your being.

If stress is the problem, I would try a more active martial art like karate, tai chi, kung fu, etc. Exchanging sitting in one place and breathing for another place and breathing doesn't seem like an optimal solution. Better to get moving around while learning to control your breath. Running does that too, but I find it's rough on my joints.

EDIT: I neglected yoga, which is excellent for de-stressing and working out daily kinks. The problem is it's popular and so it's expensive. As an extra bonus, if you're single, there are many worse places to be than in a yoga class.

I play on a hockey team. Helps you forget about other things. Plus smacking a puck, or people occasionally is good for relieving stress. The only draw back is getting an intense work out right before going to bed doesn't really help your sleep.
I have tried meditation at the local Shambhala center (2 years) and also meditation after Vinyasa Flow Yoga session (1 year so far). I found both rewarding. They were rewarding for different reasons though. It would take volumes to note the differences. Essentially, the first was more spiritual and the second was physical and spiritual. This book may help you... http://tinyurl.com/bfqdq9 I go to yoga class weekly and practice sitting meditation less, but try to fit in a session once or twice a month. Good luck.
http://www.dogensangha.org/video.htm has a couple (slightly tilted) videos explaining the basic posture of zen meditation.

Your body needs to be in an alert or awake position in order for you to be able to settle into yourself. Sitting on a couch will just make you sleepy.

It's also hugely important not to expect anything out of your meditation. "Having trouble focusing" is only a symptom of what's actually going on. Meditation won't make it go away; but, if you stick with it, you'll likely gain insight into the causes of it, and hopefully find more productive ways of dealing with it.

> It's also hugely important not to expect anything out of your meditation

Thanks for saying that... it's such an important bit, but so difficult to actually live, and it's ignored by most.

I'd suggest finding a meditation teacher, most likely through a meditation center. Meditation is not easy to learn from books, and the instruction really benefits from discussions around how it is going for you in particular.

Personally, I learned to meditated from a Shambhala center. They teach shamatha/vipassana meditation, which are the two most common forms of Buddhist meditation. The (over-simplified) explanation is that Shamatha is about quieting the mind, and Vipassana about awareness/insight.

In terms of your basic question, meditation can be as simple as sitting on the couch and watching empty space for a couple of minutes, if you are sitting on the couch and watching empty space the right way. Generally speaking, there are postures that serve better than couch-sitting, and instructions that are more sophisticated than "watching empty space", and a qualified meditation instructor can help you with those.

If you really don't have access to a local instructor, get in touch with me privately, and I'll see what I can do for you.

Sit on the couch, stare into empty space, and notice your breathing. Now, notice the thoughts that creep in - don't fight them, don't obsess over them: just observe them. Welcome them, and let them go. Keep noticing your breathing.

Rinse, repeat (daily).

An aspect of some meditation is getting into a sensing mode instead of a judging/thinking mode. One way to do this is to focus on perceiving:

- focus on your breath (count to N as you breath in; count to N as you breath out - where N=4 or some other integer that is comfortable for you. I sometimes use N=2 if I'm very stressed).

- focus on the texture of something in the real world - trace the actual edge of a rock, or a doorway, or a road. Don't skip ahead with your idea of the edge - trace the actual edge, observe the actual texture of it.

- focus on the sounds around you, middle, near (your own sounds, breath, cloth moving) and far (traffic hum, birds, wind).

Being in nature, and thinking about what is stressing me, then observing infinite reality around me (sky, ocean, plants, earth) somehow calms me and puts things in perspective: those things are much more complex. I also get ideas from this new perspective. :-)

Not saying these will work for you. But one of them might.

Work out daily (even for just 20 minutes). Have more sex (differentiate).
Mine's pretty simple:

1. Get a good noise-blocking pair of headphones. Such as the Etymotic ER-6is I have.

2. Get some relaxing music. I usually pick up an album a month of new music. It keeps the music effective.

3. Walk around a bit with the headphones playing the music. Just outside the office is fine, maybe up & down a street or two -- depends on where you/the office is.

http://dhamma.org puts on 10-day silent Buddhist meditation retreats at retreat centers around the world. They're supported entirely by donations: they don't charge for the retreats, nor do they accept donations from people who haven't attended one.

I've participated in retreats at a few of their locations and helped out on the volunteer staff a few times. The stuff they teach, though basic -- observe your breath & observe the sensations in your body -- is really useful.

I recommend this organization too. I would recommend to anyone to attend one of those 10-day courses.

They assume you have no background knowledge whatsoever about meditation, and they teach you everything you need to know. The course is very intensive and hard, but it's really really rewarding. It's a life-changing experience.

I attended this course a few years ago, and while I don't meditate regularly, I do meditate sometimes for 30 minutes. I do it when I feel stressed, or overworked, or when I feel my urges are controlling me. It works great against these things. I feel like this meditation is a sort of super-powerful weapon that I can pull out when life gets tough.

As I said, highly recommended.

Can you explain more about what it involves and in what ways it is intensive/hard, please?

(Genuine curiosity not dismissiveness)

I will attempt to summarize Vipassana as I understand it.

According to Vipassana, all misery comes from "Sankaras". A Sankara is either a craving or an aversion. In other words, wanting something badly, needing it emotionally. The feeling associated with addiction.

You have a lot of different little sankaras going on in your daily life. Vipassana is all about systematically eliminating them. It's a sort of ultra-rehab. But they deal directly with sensations: It doesn't matter what the object of the addiction is. They won't talk with you about cigarettes if you're addicted to smoking. They just teach you to feel yourself all over your body, and whenever you feel a sankara, you have to (gently but firmly) destroy it. You destroy it by simply observing it objectively. Over time, you notice that you have less and less sankaras.

Why is it intensive/hard?

The hard part is having to deal with your sankaras all the time. This is very hard.

The intensive part is because there is so much meditation. It's somewhere around 10 hours a day, if I remember correctly, with the biggest chunk being two hours long. You wake up real early and start meditating right away. You have few hours to sleep. There is no dinner. (This is intentional: it's supposed to be better for meditation.) You aren't even allowed to exercise.

I think it's worth it though. I took it twice.

You can check out their site too: http://www.dhamma.org/

Five minutes just doesn't cut it. Think about how long it takes to get in the proper state of mind for hacking. I don't even bother if I know I'm going to have to stop in less than an hour. Meditation is similar (but I'd say you need 20 minutes, not an hour).

I did a ten day course with these guys: http://www.dhamma.org/

I found it to be difficult, but worthwhile. I'm not going to do a brain dump of my experiences here, but I came back with no shortage of focus, that's for sure.

Here's a thread where people talk about their experiences at this course: http://www.yoga.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=18216&...

They tell you at the retreat that you should practice for an hour twice daily after you get back. I did that for awhile, but you feel like you're backsliding doing it for "just" two hours daily, after having put in roughly 100 hours in 10 days, and I was working 12 hour days at the time, so all I really did was work, meditate, and sleep. I ended up switching to this mantra-based approach: http://www.aypsite.org/13.html instead, because it only takes 20 minutes twice a day and seems to give you more benefit per time spent (this is not to say that this program is necessarily better than Vipassana, but it's easier to maintain while you're living in the real world). This is basically the same thing as TM, except you don't have to pay $2000 for a mantra. The people involved in this are too new-agey for my tastes, but the techniques will get you out of that permanent fight-or-flight reaction that does nothing but harm in the modern world.

The bottom line: do the 10 day course or something similar if you can and you are up to it. If not, a mantra for 20 minutes or so will help you deal with stress (although working out might be a good way to deal with too).

While I'm sure there is a difference between 5 and 20 minutes, I do find a five minute meditation break useful. It's a nice break between classes, and I end up feeling more focused.
I agree with the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis. My goal in meditation is to stop "thinking in words".
Your only goal should be to notice what you're feeling and thinking and to return to the object of meditation.

If you set a goal such as "stop thinking in words" you will never actually stop thinking in words because this is what you're thinking about.

I mean that that is the object of my meditation, not what I think about while I am meditating.
Be careful. Meditation is a buzz word and has a big industry built around it. Most of it is junk. The best meditation advice is offered by people that have taken a vow not to accept money (other than donations), so if you're being charged something other than a nominal fee, it's likely a scam.

Meditation is not about relaxation, stress relief, and being in peace with yourself and the world. These things only come as a byproduct.

Meditation is not a band aid you can apply to your life to make it better. You cannot continue living your life exactly the way it is now, medidate for half an hour a day and expect improvement. It is psychological self exploration. If you maintain your life the way it is now, you will very quickly hit a boundary and will make no further progress in meditation until your life is changed.

Meditation is about observing the way your mind works. The only way to do that is to anchor it by sustaining an incredibly focused attention on a single object for prolonged periods of time. It doesn't matter what the object is (although it's normally breath) - your mind responds to any object and by learning to sustain uninterrupted attention you will observe how your mind works.

I would suggest you to seek instruction in Anapanasati from a competent teacher. Ignore new age stuff, buddhist cosmology, relaxation and stress relief business, or any related stuff. None of it will make any lasting difference.

In a nutshell just follow your breathing, one breath at a time. When you discover you've lost attention, relax, smile, accept whatever emotions you're feeling, and go back to the breath. Seek a teacher once you discover how incredibly deep and subtle this process can be.

Good luck!

EDIT: I suppose I should add a disclaimer. I am far, far from an expert. If someone (including me) claims they completely understand meditation, they probably do not.

"The only way to do that is to anchor it by sustaining an incredibly focused attention on a single object for prolonged periods of time." -- This is one way. You can learn to attend to your attention without the focus on a mudra or sutra, but for most people this is not the easiest entry point.
If you want to explore a full range of meditation techniques, check out Osho's "The Book of Secrets". It explains the 112 methods from one of the ancient texts describing the various methods of meditation (or dhyana in sanskrit).

Read through it, try a few, see what works for you. Different techniques work for different people.

The best is to learn in a live environment from a trained teacher. I recommend Isha Yoga (www.ishafoundation.org) They have a program called "inner engineering" which imparts a yogic practice which is quite effective at lowering stress and bringing clarity to the mind. There have even been some scientific studies looking at changes in the brain through doing the practice.

I sat down for a long time in a deep, calm, state of meditation and achieved the realization that yogic meditation = bullshit.