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This hypocrisy is not at all surprising. The modus operandi for these people has been rules for thee, but not for me for quite a while now.
We should be thankful for the small mercy they their manta at least rhymes.
Well, it is and it isn't hypocrisy.

It is hypocrisy because Meta are knowingly creating a product that is perfectly suited for filming or photographing people without their knowledge. I find that it speaks ill of someone's character to pretend otherwise. And then they react badly when the very thing that these products enable happens to them. Demonstrating how this is a problem. They try to pretend it isn't a problem and then their actions demonstrate that it IS a problem.

It isn't because we do have laws that actually cover these things already. Of course, they're not the same across the world, law enforcement are not always aware of what the laws are, and this causes confrontations and sometimes overreach. There are also different legal systems that interpret laws differently. For instance in some legal systems the letter of the law carries more weight. In other legal systems the intent of the law is what matters.

There are two great risks here:

1) we pretend we can get by with existing laws. That the existing laws had enough foresight to meaningfully fulfil what the laws were intended to accomplish.

2) we can overreact and damage legitimate freedoms in our eagerness to solve an immediate problem.

For instance, where I live there is a law on the books that prohibits photographing someone being arrested. The law was well-meaning. It was there to protect people from being plastered all over the media until guilt has been determined in a court of law. But it would also prohibit someone from documenting police brutality during an arrest. So the law was never enacted because it failed to balance interests properly.

Right now, where I live, there is a real risk that rules about photography may become overly strict because politicians feel they have to demonstrate an ability to act. So they may end up passing laws that have unforeseen consequences while probably failing to make much of a difference anyway.

We know why these cameras pose a problem. Let's not insult each other's intelligence by pretending they are exactly like poking a traditional camera in someone's face. They're not and we should be able to agree on simple facts. But we also know that we need to have a public discussion about what we're going to do about this so we don't end up introducing draconian laws that take away freedoms we should have. For instance the freedom to document abuses of power, criminal activity, artistic expression etc.

It's not "perfectly suited", it's EXPLICITLY DESIGNED TO do that. And it's very well designed and very effective.

But hey it's OK because Meta only want to record everything to train their AI, who cares if some of their friends use it to create CSAM material, their third-world country workers upload it to PornHub and the NSA secretly pipe all of that through their servers (or servers managed by MI5 in the case of Americans).

Citation needed buddy…
You can conclude by the fact that they hid a recording device into what looks like a normal pair of glasses as proof that the idea is to allow people to look like they're recording people without looking like they're recording people.

They could have made it much more effective - better optics, better microphones, better battery - but that would have made it extremely obvious.

Why?

It should be enough that it is overwhelmingly likely.

They added a recording light and made covering it stop recording or photography. They went through extra effort to at least try and provide a public signal someone is recording.
Depending on your environment (outdoors/bright sunlight and angle to the wearer) it can be pretty difficult to notice the light. And not everyone knows what the light is if they even notice it.

That functionality that is supposed to stop the recording if the light is covered is not perfect. You can find lots of "hacks" being offered online and apparently some of them work.

It's pretty obvious Meta did the bare minimum here. It could have made these much more conspicuous or decided, wisely, not to unleash this crap on society given the privacy and abuse concerns that clearly outweigh the benefits.

How many days of effort do you think it takes to defeat that?
> rules for thee, but not for me

This is their theory of power, that the selected few get access to a state of exception (but you can lose it at any time, so don't slip up).

Trump and oligarchs broadly have offered this franchise to their most loyal.

But! I'd argue it is not precisely hypocrisy, because they never believed in a rules-based order in the first place. They just see a system they can exploit.

break things has always been right there in black and white.

Instagram is full of videos of guys harassing and antagonizing people in public as "pranks". And this is not some coincidence, since both products are from the same company, they basically unleashed this for engagement.
Yes, having a taste of their own medicine.
Great idea for protests outside meta offices. Just stand on the public right of way outside the entrance, smiling in your meta ray bans.
Would only be an effective protest if you stole the glasses.
Why does the effectiveness of the protest be contingent on stealing the glasses?
I'd guess because buying the meta glasses to use them is in a way helping it succeed.
The title is misleading - it sounds like they specifically went there to harass employees by filming them, and Meta took down the videos for harassment, like they routinely do if this is reported on their platforms. I'm really not sure what the issue is.
TBH this is tamer than 99% of the content published by Creeper Glasses users that Meta itself relentlessly shows to me.
Meta only cares about this video because it directly targets Meta. If this guy was asking questions to employees of any other company they would not give a shit.
I didn't see any harassment.

They made a product, interviewer is using it as intended. He walked up to people, asked questions while using their product.

If they don't like it, walk away. Zero harassment.

I have read news article about people wearing meta glasses, removing the red recording LED and filming woman and girls at beaches in bikini without their knowledge. And these video often stay up on metas Instagram, accounts don't get suspended. THAT is the issue.
In China the government controls the discourse. Here it's the corporations.
And you let it happen.
Ok I don't anymore. Are we good now?
agreed

I just can’t find the user experience different enough for me to feel like my western friends have any point to make about China

the west has a thin partyless corporate layer controlling all facets of life and your ability to participate in life compared to the government doing it directly

but its okay because if you don’t care about any of that you can talk about it (in person only because nobody will hear it for long elsewhere) and you won’t be disappeared? *unless your citizenship status is questioned

amusing cope

Fortunately the corporations here lack the power to imprison people for saying things they don't like.
Who remembers the picture of inside Zuckerberg's home that got leaked with the grotesks living their private lives?
meta's pervert glasses
Epstein Glasses by Meta. For people who don't do consent.
Interesting - yes, Epstein glasses. Hmm.. Pervert glasses, epstein glasses, pervert glasses, Epstein glasses. Pervstein glasses? <looks at coffee>, <looks outside>, <wonders why this world is so dumb>, <wonders when the revolution will come>
Corporation under no obligation to uphold journalistic standards. In other news, water still wet.
Corporate censorship. Do we want such a future in general, where big companies decide onto you what you can see and what you can not see? These walled digital gardens they built up are already such a huge issue.

Now I don't depend on CIAbook, formerly known as Facebook, in any way, shape or form. And I don't use Suckerberg's Spyglasses either - hopefully others feel in a similar way, but unfortunately money convinces people, and I noticed a few "auditors" using spyglasses allegedly for "protection" (though, why they don't use normal vide cameras instead, beats me - perhaps they are not truthful). I fear that the spyglasses will be a success since Suckerberg is so sold on spying on mankind. If Google were not to exist, Facebook would be the number #1 evil company right now.

Okay I'll bite. What do you mean by auditors in scare quotes? Like actual auditors of business practices? Or something else?
Btw, I found out a few days ago HN censors comments. Not just down voting, but if you say something they HN finds offensive it disappears.
You can enable viewing dead comments in your settings.
I cant believe this is a thing. I just turned on dead comments and there are loads of them, most I dont consider offensive or bad in any way. I had no idea HN was so severely censored, my opinion of it has gone down (even though I assume this comment will now be killed).
Maybe post two comments about it, maybe in different stories, and ask people that respond with bewilderment to post twice as well.
Look through the history of the commenters who are shadowbanned (the reason all their comments are dead) and you usually find out relatively quickly how they ended up in that situation. I cannot think of a single instance where dang banned someone for being critical of HN, ycombinator, disagreeing with them, etc, it is always because someone cannot maintain a basic level of civility.
For testing sake, even if you don't believe it - try posting a few comments with this idea (in your own words) - and be very civil.

The AI industry's mass theft of artwork is a crime that should be punished. The perpetrators, those directing this action, should lose everything. They should be left in perpetual debt as payment for their theft from the rest of society. This is just like 2008, when all of the oligarchy controlling the banks pillaged the rest of society, and got off with no real consequence. What we have is a few, probable psychopaths, injuring the masses for their own gain.

Try posting that on a high visibility story relating to the AI industries ethics. See what happens.

You will surely be down-voted - that's fine - [even though, for me, this opinion seems like a no-brainer, is it that crazy?] - (this comment might affect your account? not sure) -- The question, is it "disappeared."

Let me know.

If anyone wants to see the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHKhYL3is5o

He did harass them a bit. I'm looking forward to Meta taking down all videos where someone is a bit harassed. Internet will be a much nicer place!

Interesting. Would they also disable personalized ads targeting Meta employees? Nothing overtly malicious, at most something trending fast and polarizing the company.
Everyone keeps saying he is dutch but he was speaking a different language in the video. I was quite confused because not everything was even dubbed correctly. Also its an auto dubbing through AI. Didn't realize it got automatically selected. So annoying.
As far as I know he is Dutch and he sounds like a native Dutch speaker. But he but also uses English with some of the people that do not speak Dutch.
Once you realize you are wrong, try to edit your comment. It doesn’t add to the discussion.
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I edited it. It was not clear enough that I am referring to the auto dubbing not the guy.
He's speaking Dutch and speaking English with a very very heavy west-Netherlands accent. Quite a lot of the Meta employees there can't speak Dutch which is why he switches to English.
I think I should have worded my comment differently. I did not mean the guy does not speak dutch, the video was not playing in dutch because of that shitty auto dubbing of youtube.
Yeah I saw that after posting. I have the same issue, and I'm fluent in Dutch.
> He did harass them a bit.

Maybe I'm too European to understand, where exactly is harassment occurring? He's asking Meta employees questions, doesn't seem to follow them around, and when they walk away or say no, he doesn't exactly force them to stay or anything? Doesn't there have to be some intimidation or humiliation or similar for it to be harassment? Or asking employees what they think of the products they develop and support is the harassment part?

I am just an American, but I live in Portugal and it is legally not allowed to film people in public without their consent (you also can't have a street facing surveillance camera like in the US). Moreover, people take this rule very seriously. If it appears that you are doing so, they will be visibly bothered (I know some kids who have had uncomfortable interactions because they weren't aware).

I don't think blurring faces fully addresses that (though I'm not commenting on legality in Amsterdam).

I can see the argument that this video is in the public interest (hey, I'm Americanese), but it does seem plausible some people would find it a violation of a norm.

Working at meta is a violation of the norm, it's hard to care.
This is true de jure but not de facto and if anyone wants proof just go look up the number of Teslas in portuguese streets and the zero convictions over continuous recording of the public.
> it is legally not allowed to film people in public without their consent

Lots places have laws like that. Maybe Meta shouldn't sell a device that makes it easy to do it anyway.

Not defending Meta, they suck.

I realize the idea that rules exist even if you dislike the people they (momentarily) protect, even if those people have violated them, is a tough pill to swallow.

Most places have laws against publishing such content, not recording it in the first place.

Edit: I do however agree with the sentiment.

>you also can't have a street facing surveillance camera like in the US

That's wild. Their solved crime rate must be in the gutter.

The original comment doesn't tell the whole story. Street facing surveillance cameras are allowed if they are strictly covering the entrances to the building.
> I am just an American, but I live in Portugal and it is legally not allowed to film people in public without their consent

If that's actual law that's a bit surprising. In many EU countries there are journalistic exceptions (which may or may not apply in this specific case depending on local law)

> (you also can't have a street facing surveillance camera like in the US)

And same here. Usually the limit is that if you do it within GDPR household exemption then you cannot have it facing street, but if you do it on GDPR scope then you need to fulfill the GDPR requirements (e.g. posting notice, be ready to answer GDPR requests, perform balancing tests for recording etc.).

He's specifically bending down to look at the behinds of the persons, also asks them to turn around "scanning" them.

If anything I think the employees are all nice people. I get the message but it's cringy to watch.

I'm also against cameras everywhere, but let's not pretend this is not all also possible with other devices.

> let's not pretend this is not all also possible with other devices

Let's not pretend being able to beat someone with a rock and shoot them with a M61 Vulcan at 6k rounds per minute are the same thing just because they involve projectiles.

Facebook started explicitly (https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2003/11/19/facemash-creat...) as a way to creep on women.

This kind of hyperbole is nonsense. It’s a camera, being compared to other cameras. If your point doesn’t stand without dubious analogy then it’s not a very good point.

The fact is that if you stood outside any company office, with a highly visible camera crew, and then asked people who were passing by whether they worked at that company, most of them would probably feel quite apprehensive.

They would also be apprehensive if there was no camera at all.

So what exactly is the point that is being made in this video? People are apprehensive when put into situations with other people where their intentions are not clear and there are signs that the intentions might be malicious. Very informative…

> This kind of hyperbole is nonsense. It’s a camera, being compared to other cameras.

This kind of false equivalency is nonsense. Facebook's been making clear attempts to reduce the obviousness of their camera glasses.

The problem isn't "I get apprehensive when I see a camera". The problem is "I don't want to be filmed without my knowledge".

Citations please. I’ve only seen glasses which are obviously meta glasses with a clearly visible camera.

Being filmed without your knowledge is happening all the time, these glasses haven’t moved the needle at all.

> Citations please.

https://www.ray-ban.com/usa/ray-ban-meta-ai-glasses

I'm supposed to peer closely at peoples' sunglasses to try and figure out if that little black-on-black dot is a camera versus a design embellishment?

> Being filmed without your knowledge is happening all the time…

Murders happen all the time. That doesn't mean I need to be pro-murder.

Maybe I’m just more used to them. I see obvious camera in clearly identifiable smart glasses…
I felt a bit uneasy when the employees indicate they're uncomfortable with the filming and he asks them why, while continuing to film. Given how they're blurred out and that their discomfort is kind-of the point w.r.t. the issue he's trying to raise, I don't think this meets the bar that Meta usually adheres to when it comes to taking down videos, but describing it as "a bit" of harassment doesn't sound too wrong to me.
They feel uncomfortable with being filmed while going about their day to day life? Maybe they should stop making products that enable such a thing.
How do these glasses "enable" it any more than a gopro, a security camera, or the phone that nearly every person in the developed world already has?
Others are making it wrong doesn't justify another wrong.

In any case: they are different because they are in the face all day long, they are not a device some needs to start using to record; they are not operated by the user, in the sense that the user does not show any active indication of recording (e.g. they are not holding the camera); they are similar to regular glasses, making it hard to distinguish;

and they do not clear indicate if they are recording (and don't tell me that the LED is enough)

because these always-available features changes the threshold for it happening
Is it not currently always available on the phones we're carrying?
Do you strap your phone to your face?
Behavior like this will one day causing "no glasses beyond this point" rule, which will also hurts people that really need to use glasses.

All things you mentioned can be easily prohibited on photo-sensitive area. Perhaps phone is harder, but it's still easily get prohibited without hurting anything. Glasses so far is a requirement, not that easy to prohibit in an area.

Because it's intentionally a camera that blends into normal clothing so it's less obvious you are being filmed.
It's intentionally a camera that doesn't need to be held and it matches the the POV of the wearer. Where has Meta said it's intentionally designed to be hidden?
Does Meta have a reputation about being honest about what it's doing? This is the company that just lost a $17 billion lawsuit for endangering children.
Asking genuinely: what are you saying? Do they intend to use the cameras for evil, and the physical form enables them beyond how they are currently enabled by iPhones and non-iPhones now?
No it looks like a pair of glasses.

People who don't know these "Meta glasses" exist (and they shouldn't need to), would have no idea that the thing is even capable of recording.

It's subterfuge and while you could argue that this subterfuge was "unintentional", but imho that's mincing words, and also given that it's Meta, not entirely in good faith.

Can I assume that you have good enough eye sight that you don't need to wear glasses if you choose to? Because as somebody who is absolutely dependent on glasses as a serious aid, it leaves a very bad taste they are literally hiding the recording device in a disability aid.

I first needed glasses in 4th grade. There hasn't been much time I can remember in my life where I haven't required them to function normally. Save for like, walking to the bathroom in the middle of the night.

I don't think making them glasses is "gross". It seems like a natural evolution of cameras to me. Even before Google Glass they were thrown around as an idea in scifi for decades. It's cool to me, but I understand public opinion isn't with me, and I'm fine with that.

Most people would recognize a gopro, or a security camera, or a phone held in a certain way as something that is recording or likely to be recording.

I don't think most people would recognize the meta glasses as something that could be recording. Especially if you cover or disable the recording LED light that is supposed to come on.

The comment to which you're responding didn't claim the glasses enabled it more than some other device does. And these employees don't work for the companies that make those devices. You can see how your question is irrelevant whataboutism right?
I don’t know the legal of boundary harassment but he’s clearly trolling them and making people uncomfortable.
That's the point.

If everyone is wearing the glasses, wherever you go, you'll be filmed all the time, with most people not bothering to ask.

I mean, you are being filmed everywhere you go anyway by flock cameras, police/government cctv, even cctv on business and peoples house/ring doorbells etc. Concent to being filmed in a public place is not really asked anywhere, so I dont see it as a big difference personally.
I think the ironic thing in the video, is the employees of the company making the product, abject to the use of the product when it is directed towards them. So why should everyone else be comfortable with it.
But meta employs many thousands of people. Is it fair to say they all work on the meta glasses and/or all think they are a good idea? Just because you work for a company doesnt mean you share its morals.

Poor Tracy in accounts probably doesnt give 2 hoots about meta glasses, shes just an accountant and maybe she doesnt even know they exist. But now shes getting harassed by idiots with cameras as she goes into the office.

If you were doing it to Zuck himself or following round the head of the smart glasses department then it might be different, but harassing general employees of meta is no better than any other company. These are normal people no matter where they work.

I mean to be honest, fuck them all. The whole affair is fruit of the poisoned tree (Zuck). Just because people are making bank working there doesn’t absolve them of responsibility for their choices. Each and every employee made that conscious choice to be a part of it all
Tarring innocent people with the same brush as their overlords is a very dangerous direction to go down.
Think you're still kind of missing the point.

If we aren't allowed to ever criticize anybody because they were just following orders, where would we be?

Yes fine, blame and criticise every single person that worked on those glasses. But other teams like accounts, cafeteria, hell event the damn cleaners have nothing to do with it.
Try to have the 24/7 cameras at chest level or lower, you'll find people starting to get uncomfortable. You can easily reach those angle with the glasses, and different with smartphone which also can, the glasses can be hard to distinguish.
Ring doorbell cameras are chest high and millions of homes have them. I would bet every time you walk down the street you are captured by loads of them, but because you dont know you dont care.
Ring doorbell cameras don't move and aren't attached to people's faces. Come on.
> Come on

I've said this out loud several times while reading the comments defending Meta under this post.

It's so interesting to see so many weak or misdirecting justifications. It's almost as if people are here to attempt to control the narrative for financial reasons.

No, I just dont care about being filmed in public.

If I enter a public space I consider that anybody could watch me at any time, therefore I am always careful in public and always consider that walking out of my property is consenting to anybody else seeing me.

Personally I dont see a difference between someone watching me on the street or recording me and watching it back. Its just no different to me.

Arguing about whether to call this kind of behavior a harassment or "a bit" of a harassment is in my opinion all besides the point.

This video mainly shows a person approaching other people in public and recording them with these glasses. Which is one of the typical scenarios in which such a glasses are probably going to be used. And that video shows that even the Meta employees themselves generally do not seem to like it very much.

That is the point.

I don't know if I agree that man-on-the-street pseudo journalistic stuff is one of the "typical scenarios." Any time I see a product like this I think:

    1) Can I use it to watch a more immersive movie without bothering people who may be in the next week?
    2) Can I use it to make my games more enjoyable, either console or PC?
    3) Can I use it to record IPSC/USPSA matches?
    4) Can I use it for work?
I don't think these will make more people bother strangers on the street, it's just another way the same people can do that.
That's fine for you, but why on earth do you think every other person out there will only use these for innocuous nerdy reasons? Ask any adult woman you know and there's a good chance she will have at least one story of being stalked or getting really creeped out by someone. Consumer tech that enables creepy behavior will be used in that way by too many people.
> why on earth do you think every other person out there will only use these for innocuous nerdy reasons?

I don't, which I why I didn't say that :)

We already have thousands of videos made by way more hostile people, who test the patience of people in public and even get themselves occasionally arrested, and they're very obviously holding cameras and shoving those cameras in people's faces.

I'm not sure how it follows that glasses will encourage more of that behavior.

Bending down to stare at a female employee's ass at waist level after he asked her to turn around isn't harassment[1]? Like, up until that point it was almost ribbing but that was quite the turn given it'd be the same issue whether he was wearing smart glasses or not.

Not to mention the sarcastic, insincere tone he adopts after being asked what he's doing, claiming he's "such a huge fan" of the Meta glasses. There is a way to draw attention to privacy and this is a poor way to go about it.

[1] Cambridge Dictionary: 'behavior that annoys or upsets someone'

Also see: Irony
If what someone has done makes me critique them rather than fully side with them then the goal of what they've produced has already failed. This is not a video I can share with anyone I know and expect their takeaway to be 'fuck Meta'.

People also use smartphones to take upskirt photos without any shutter sound (arguably much easier than this guy physically bending over) but if someone was protesting phone cameras then doing that to people in public for some video wouldn't be some gotcha 'dunk'. At best it'd merely be controversial.

For a high effort pushback of Meta Glasses see the lenticular They Live vandalism of Meta's bus stop ad[1]. It hits the same goal this video author was trying to make, is actually clever and doesn't leave itself open to critique. Didn't require video removal on platforms to get the attention of articles either.

[1] https://hyperallergic.com/guerrilla-london-bus-ads-mock-kyli...

To me he crossed a line by asking the woman to turn around and then crouching down to film her butt. That is a really creepy thing to do and a lot of women would find that threatening. Ask a female friend how they would feel if you find that surprising.
Yes but isn't that what those glasses were made for by those Meta employees?
If your can back that up with a source I would love to see it.
I suspect he was making a point?
Asking questions is harassment now?

It's obvious he's making a point, but there is no harassment that I see.

FFS ... it's this kind of goal-post shifting that ends with sign-holding grannies being arrested for terrorism.

It's harassment when you're doing something slightly inconvenient in a way which doesn't benefit big business or the super rich.

It's fine if you're doing it to benefit them, then you can go much further, you can kill small children with your tractors (as is attempted in The Netherlands) or to murder coast guards or migrant (via drowning or fire) as happens in the UK.

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Isn't that the point? The camera glasses add a 10x harassment factor.
I think he could've gotten his point across without making her turn around and then putting his face behind her ass.
That was totally unacceptable behavior. I support the choice to take down a video depicting blatant sexual harassment of its employees. I also support launching meta into the sun.
He did it to men too.

The argumentative method of rather than saying and doing what you believe and instead doing and saying what you are opposed to, is always weak and usually a great way to shoot yourself in the foot.

That being said. I agree 100% with making Meta Employees feel uncomfortable with their own products.

Asking someone to turn around isn't making them turn around. And he asked multiple men and just one woman in the video. In any case - among real life Meta glasses users, who do you think is going to be perved on more - men, or women?

If you judge this video without any kind of context, then yes he is a weirdo harassing strangers who are just trying to go about their day. The point is that these glasses enable this weird behavior, and the people he's filming are (ostensibly) part of that system.

> I'm looking forward to Meta taking down all videos where someone is a bit harassed. Internet will be a much nicer place!

Well, I’m looking forward of Meta going down. Now that would benefit the Internet.

After that, I think the fact that these glasses are allowed in the first place creates a problem that Meta as a platform cannot fix, because Meta is just one of the many many places where videos can be posted.

But the video was not just the view from his glasses?
Yes. It appears that there was another person, perhaps with another pair of such glasses, who was filming the interactions from a 3rd person's perspective.
Outside basic network effects like real names Facebook has contributed essentially nothing of value to the world. (And no, don't tell me "React, Pytorch". People were screaming about React's license) The network effects barely matter too because their AI bans you whenever and feeds are so useless you never see what anyone posts

Instagram went from a site for photographers to Reels everywhere (and login walls on every page)

Zuckerberg is awful. Awful, awful, awful.

I personally think React made webdev worse. Overcomplicated shite I call it.
That's hilarious. Keep it up!
Privacy for me but not for thee.
Why are these Mets glasses still allowed to be sold? It needs to be stopped and the product recalled.

Google glasses came and went. Mets glasses should follow a similar fate.

Anyone can just go on Temu and easily buy stalking gadgets like gps trackers and tiny spy cameras etc for very little money. Any legislation against this type of thing would need to be very wide reaching to be effective, as there are much cheaper and easier to obtain devices which secretly film than meta glasses.
Not something to be worn on your face.
But to be hidden in a necklace, or badge, or handbag etc...
Zuckerberg has a knack for creating the most anti-human products possible. It is a mystery he didn't create or buy out OF.
I can't think of a more human place .
Facebook included, by the way

Myspace had its run, it wasn't an especially good product. People moved to Facebook for any number of reasons, but those privacy settings ("friends only", etc) if they worked would've been pretty cool and good for the web

Unfortunately Zuckerberg doesn't care about privacy and actively spent time changing those from Friends Only to Public

And graph search. If I search for 'carrot' I can see any post you've ever made in your entire history with carrot in it

There's a reason Facebook's wall thing is now called 'timeline'. It lists everything you've ever done ever. Hope you managed to catch yet another one of their silent privacy changes. Oh, look, guess you have to log in to catch it. That means they rope you back into the system. Oh well. No biggie. Just the absolute antithesis of consent

I recorded a video harassing the employees of a company, I uploaded it to the servers of said company, and they removed it. Who could have imagined this would happen?
It's a bit frustrating to see this video immediately sniped while Meta continues to host some of the most insidious content on the internet.

It actually scares me that kids can read IG comment sections.

I've found Instagram comments to be heavily censored. What exactly are you worried about?
Mostly vast amounts of sexism, but I also see racism, antisemitism and islamophobia waaay too much. The 'isms' tend to glom onto certain posts and go nuts. Algorithmic feeds at their finest, I guess.
Just exposing the kids to the real world will create those thoughts in their brains from first principles. The only way for them not to have those thoughts is by manipulation… which is, surprisingly, done through mass media these days.
They cant if they dont have an Instagram account. Easy solution.
This "ban all kids" kind of take is bananas to me. It implies you either A) believe we should trust famously secure and benevolent tech companies with government ID or B) believe parents have the time or technical know-how to exhaustively monitor the internet access of kids. Even as a software engineer, I've found it insanely tiresome to try operating half-assed parental controls across devices.
You okay bro? Blink twice if the Meta has your family in danger.
That's not very "digital town square" of them
We need to move beyond just banning these glasses - all smart glasses of all kinds - to breaking up these companies. Undo the acquisitions of Insta and Whatsapp - I don't care that will be expensive, thats a shareholders problem.
What does this have to do with WhatsApp?

Also as much as you might like to punish investors (most of whom just have it in their 401k) because you don't like people with money, there are legal protections and the government can't just do something like that without an actual reason.

I think the point is, it's been a good system, but it's out of control. It's not that people don't like people having money, it's people don't like the status quo of watching society and the world be destroyed by generating share holder value alone. We need a better system. Not saying that is communism or whatever, but the monopolies and corruption are off the charts.
WhatsApp is definitely part of Meta's distribution and reach strategy. So it's very relevant.

I don't think OP is trying to punish investors. I think they are saying the overall damage of letting these companies continue the current trend will be worse than the cost of unwinding it now.

I'm an advocate of reformed legislation to enable this.

Why shouldn't we punish investors? This is the risk when you invest in these types of companies where regulation is nonexistent. It's not the job of the government to make sure rich shareholders stay green.
It’s absolutely insane to me how intro economics classes spout that capital takes on risks to implement new ideas while completely glossing over the political process of ensuring profit floors and guarantees under the “rent seeking” definition. Like, rent seeking seems to be the only goal of capital now.

Egregious example:

https://www.loevy.com/for-profit-prison/

Public prisons have all of the same incentives to reduce costs and anything you should do to ensure public prisons are following minimum standards (regular inspections and regulations) can just as easily be applied to private prisons.

The problem isn't the profit. The problem is the lack of accountability.

The profit motive introduces the lack of accountability because now they care about making money and not housing humans and providing dignity.
Politicians don't care about that either. They care about trying to balance the budget by cutting money from the places that people care about the least.
Politicians care about this around me, they even campaign and win on these issues. Try not to speak in absolutes
Also as much as you might like to punish investors (most of whom just have it in their 401k) because you don't like people with money, there are legal protections and the government can't just do something like that without an actual reason.

As much as you might like to defend the wealthy because the only thing you care about is money, regardless of the human cost, doesn't mean that we can't use the law and the government to limit the harm being done to humans.

I know what you are going to say. "Fuck people! I only worship money!" but I think you need to look beyond just the financial aspects of this situation.

I know that shareholders just want monopolies and free money and don't want to compete for it, but we should make them. Like we did before Ronald Reagan and Robert Bork shot the kneecaps out of our antitrust law. It's not about punishing shareholders, it's about making them earn their keep. It's just good business.
The government can do whatever it wants. Laws are written by the government. We have a democracy. If enough votes exist to, say, pass a law banning drug dealing (like meta does), then the company will die.

Simple as that

> because you don't like people with money

What a great way to flip a discussion on privacy. I'm so happy for your investments. I have investments, too. That didn't stop me from telling our financial advisor that I didn't want shares in specific evil companies, regardless of their profitability. Maybe that's because I have enough money to be selective about it, which apparently will earn your respect.

Se should together stop calling devices which film in dressing / locker rooms smart.

These track serve Ads and do Data fusion

Much like a cell phone, nobody would even really care if you brought a camcorder down so long as you aren't operating it (which is very obvious).

What makes these things gross is that it's not obvious when someone is recording.

I agree we should do something in this instance, but with the speed of which things are changing? Eventually, this tech is going to be undetectable.

"Oh no that's sci-fi and decades away", I really don't think so. I think neuralink, and competitors too, will next move on to reading the visual cortex. They already have plans to push data to the visual cortex, to enable the blind to "see", reading in healthy people seems quite doable.

I expect something like this to happen before 2030.

Regardless, I agree for now? Yes. But the future? I don't see it as blockable forever.

There are two ways we decide how severe the punishment for broken laws is. One is to enable just punishment. The other is deterrent. This may fall into "deterrent is the bigger part of the sentence", where people posting private information receive years in jail as a result.

There is a little bit of a conversation about this here:

https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/other-autre/cndii-cdncii...

And the above certainly covers Meta glasses too.

I think it won't be long before it's the posting of non-consensual imagery that is so criminal, that few will do so. For years in Quebec, sharing of images captured in public isn't really legit. You control "images of yourself", regardless of where they are taken, public places or not:

https://educaloi.qc.ca/en/capsules/your-right-to-control-pho...

And they're so worried about problems with image sharing, they've almost automated the process to deal with it:

https://www.quebec.ca/en/justice-and-civil-status/support-vi...

So this is already being criminalized in a lot of places.

So glad people like you stay in Canada.
> Regardless, I agree for now? Yes. But the future? I don't see it as blockable forever.

It's increasingly necessary not to allow guests to bring their devices into your house or establishment. Somebody should go into business doing courtesy phones, where you can switch your sim/esim at the door to a dumbphone owned by the business.

When it comes to smart glasses, if they're prescription you had better have spares or you're going to be blind.

Canada's censorship solutions are no solution; you can't stop people from doing things by cracking down on civil liberties, people will just ignore you and do it anyway. Then you're stuck chasing anonymity, now your entire society is totalitarian and everything is rooted. In order to fight the totalitarian surveillance and tracking instituted because you wouldn't tell some pervert to take his robot glasses off, the electorate makes MechaHitler your PM, and it's now in control of your surveillance system.

It would be very funny if Skynet took over because people elected it, like Hitler did.

It's not censorship to be in control of your own likeness. And having laws which are easy to call upon is part of justice being served. In the Quebec example, someone posting something about you is as easy as 'take that down' then 'police are called if you disobey the court', which is really how courts have always worked everywhere around the world.

The US has a crazier takedown regime, letting companies do this. At least in Canada it goes through a court, it's about your personal likeness, and you can contest it.

>to enable the blind to "see"

Please watch this ad to enable 5 minutes of premium color vision!

> "Oh no that's sci-fi and decades away", I really don't think so. I think neuralink, and competitors too, will next move on to reading the visual cortex. They already have plans to push data to the visual cortex, to enable the blind to "see", reading in healthy people seems quite doable.

> I expect something like this to happen before 2030.

I think 2030 is too early for that, medical tech is slower than most people expect. What may happen by then is retinal implants connected to external cameras, as the early tests of that kind of thing are now well into the past.

The non-medical surveillance risk is higher. The smallest camera (as of 6 years ago) was already small enough to be easily missed amongst makeup sparkles if you were so inclined: https://originalpricing.com/ov6948-medical-camera-sensor/

Low resolution? Sure. Expensive, too. But I can easily see this being embedded in someone's nail lacquer, or eyelashes.

There have been hidden cameras of various kinds for a lot longer than that, hidden in buttons etc.

Between this and how easy it is to use AI to fake a picture of anyone you choose, anywhere you choose, doing anything you choose… I have absolutely no idea what will happen to consensus reality and shared social norms next year, let alone by 2030.

Yes, the reality issue is big. This may be in fact the only thing which saves 'big' news. And it may be what kills all forms of social media posting.

Some yahoo you don't know, posting a video of <thing happening> is useless without some degree of trust. So whether an established celeb on Youtube or actual media outlets, centralized reporting is going to become more of a thing.

When I was a kid, pre-internet, pre-camera, 'rumours' could be devastating, and were often wildly made up. Yet there was always this category of people who simple could not get through their head, that simply because someone hears something, it isn't therefore true.

This category of people still exists. And I think they'll be most hit by this.

Which Meta Glasses try to counter by making it obvious when someone is recording with the recording light; arguably more obvious than cell phones.
They are designed to be easy to bypass. Plenty of tutorials exist online and I can't imagine that Meta engineers didn't know about it beforehand.
And the next generation of "smart glasses" made by companies that aren't so reliant on public image will just forgo this entirely voluntary nicety.
There's a technology that can hide an LED light, it is called "a small piece of tape."
I don't know how effective it or how it works but Meta says they disable recording if the recording light is blocked.

https://9to5google.com/2026/07/07/meta-ray-ban-smart-glasses...

The idea that Meta gives any serious shits about anyone's privacy or well-being when it's in opposition to their revenue is laughable.

The $17b settlement they just agreed to said as much.

> As he films them from multiple angles, the predominantly English-speaking employees ask the presenter questions such as, "What are you doing?" and "Are you filming me right now?"

Meta employees themselves couldn't tell if he was recording!

This is the non-confrontational way to say, "I know you are recording". It allows a quick "Oh, sorry" if the person is willing to turn it off when confronted, without escalating to an actual confrontation.
You have to hold up a cell phone to film people with it. It's a very obvious action. Definitely not intentional in the design but it's an accidental feature.
I don't like it but it's totally normal, especially for youth, to have their cell phones out in locker rooms. Targeting only glasses with this concern is largely out of touch with current behavior.
That isn't normal and it's actively enforced against in gyms and pools where I live.

Glasses are passively recording. Recording with a phone is active (for the most part). You need to take it out and point it at what you are recording...

My children's school have an interesting way of dealing with the ever growing list of devices they need a policy for. They borrowed the police term "data carrying devices" and wrote a policy based on that. When Metas glasses started to be come a problem no policy change was needed for the school, they were automatically covered.

That's probably the best solution, deal with the functionality, not the device type.

Yep, they're spy glasses / perv glasses.
They're basically Flock Cameras, except they could appear anywhere. Nobody wants mobile surveillance potentially brought into any room.
> Undo the acquisitions of Insta and Whatsapp - I don't care that will be expensive, thats a shareholders problem.

Yikes. I thought this was America.

> I don't care that will be expensive, thats a shareholders problem.

"I have no empathy for the two-thirds of Americans who will lose their personal savings that they need to retire" really undermines your case.

Edit: thoughtful tradeoffs against the stock market are reasonable. "I don't care" is not a carefully weighed tradeoff

93% of equities are held by the top 10% of households, cry me a river.
You just unknowingly pointed out the real problem - the system is setup so that we think we are in on it, but as a wise man said "It's a big club and you ain't in it".

Also "lose their personal savings" is a hyperbolic bad faith argument. If anyone's entire net worth is put into Meta stock, they get whats coming. Second, 93% of the stock market is owned by 10% of the population. The average American has more to gain from holding companies accountable than letting them rape and pillage our society so the richest people can have even more money.

Flat out banning a category of product because it is possible to use it for bad things is stupid. Thousands of people are killed by cars every year - should we ban them? (Being killed is far worse than being recorded naked in a locker room. Not saying the latter is great, but it's better than being dead)

There are also potential good uses for this tech. As someone who can't remember anyone's name worth crap, I can't wait for smart glasses with facial recognition and a name tag that hovers over everyone. I'm sure there will be great benefit in industry, giving workers heads up displays of all manner of important information.

Just like any new technology, there is equal potential for good and bad.

[delayed]
That works the first 10 times or so I meet someone, but it starts getting awkward after that. (Wish I was exaggerating)
This is a problem you have to solve yourself, without relying on making facial scanning and profiling tech widespread.

The simple solution is that you live with the small amount of awkwardness this generates.

Practical advice from a non-social person that forgets names - make notes, even 15 seconds after you meet the person if possible. The name, along with a quick note about where you met them, a feature that stuck out about them, a conversation you had with them, etc. Another thing that helps if you are not great at socializing on the fly (like me), is having pre-planned conversation pieces for people you might meet at a venue, or on the elevator at work. This will help add to the notes. Dittys sometimes work - like if the person's name is Brian and they have long hair - "Long haired Brian". Sounds goofy, but it really does work. Then every time you see that person, you call them by their name to help make it stick.

And if all fails, a "What up DUDE!" always works well too.

Now if you have a brain issue or something, I understand. But as a normal, healthy person, if we aren't making even the smallest effort to remember names, even the non-important ones, then we are more than likely the problem hah!

How fo you think we can go about this the politicians are not in our pocket
> banning these glasses

(Networked) surveillance cameras are just as problematic, but people don't notice them. Any ban should affect them too. I don't want to build a world where corporations and governments film and surveil us in public (or privately-owned public spaces, like malls, parking lots, etc.), but we're forbidden from doing the same.

We need to go further and ban mini camera module for raspberry pi zero. Imeagine someone can record you with this stuff...
Is the issue with person A videoing person B that a) B doesn't know they're being filmed b) B knows it and doesn't like it c) something else. I think likely b) so now we get to is whether A's conduct legal. If A is located in a public place, e.g., a public sidewalk, they can legally film whatever they can see. They can do this using a phone, Meta glasses, a camera on a tripod, etc. For example, A could stand on the sidewalk in front of your your house and legally film you through an open window. Kinda creepy but not illegal.
All over the US people are freaking out about Flock cameras and that's justified.

Meanwhile, these Meta glasses are far more ubiquitous, far more intrusive, being sold all over the world (not only the US) and their images have a lot less oversight than Flock's. And I don't need to tell anyone how irresponsible Meta is with other people's privacy.

And, yet, very few make a scandal about it.

> these Meta glasses are far more ubiquitous

Huh? Not in my area. I've seen one pair of these in the wild and dozens of Flock cameras. Will that change? Maybe. For now, the _freak outs_ about Flock are absolutely justified.

Their footprints are also completely different. I can't avoid Flock cameras unless I want to change my path of travel and take back roads, which costs me time and money. Whereas I _might_ encounter someone wearing Meta glasses _if_ I happen to cross paths with them.

Yeah, I also find it weird to make a comparison with a random private individual and/or corporation with an actor that has the monopoly on violence.

The government doing surveillance is much much worse.

And, ultimately, the issue here is that individuals are using these products in a bad way. Go to Japan and this shit is prolifically bad. Upskirt cameras on shoes and all this shit. Banning these glasses doesn't get rid of bad behaviors. Japan has been at the forefront of pervy invasive shit for decades.

In democracies, governments are accountable to their citizens.

But I understand your concern, the U.S. hardly qualifies as a democracy.

O.t.o.h, in the absent of stringent privacy laws (as the U.S. is an example), corporations are accountable just to stockholders.

> and their images have a lot less oversight than Flock's

Given what I've read about Flock recently, I'm actually not sure that is true.

There are some Meta employees reading this thread and thinking: "well, he did harass them!"

That said, I hope that real harassment starts to happen. Meta doesn't care about social boundaries when it benefits them, so it's fair game

I've always wondered if people who work for Meta/Twitter/whoever think that the Nuremberg defense is valid
I'll take the bait. I work on ads at Meta.

What am I on trial for that I need to use the nuremberg defense?

Your employer has fundamentally undermined the stable functioning of society by systematically provoking outrage, division and hate. You have contributed to a world where we can’t even agree if measles is bad.
Maybe we haven’t seen enough creative applications of these to win us over? Every time I see them on someone they instantly look like Woody Allen. Imagine what art a filmmaker like Woody Allen would make with these glasses.
It's a good bit.

My guess is if you went to the Apple Campus and held up an iPhone recording its employees, you'd have the same thing happen to you.

Are you filming? - Can't you see the light?

Case closed. People that are very familiar with these glasses need to ask. These devices need to get banned.

I hate these glasses, but why do you need to ban them? Meta operates at scale, so it will only stay in this business if a considerable number of people buy this. Vote with your money. There are legitimate uses for camera glasses (journalism, action sports, etc.).
I'm trying to understand how to "vote with my money" for not being recorded by these glasses in public. My best interpretation would be financially supporting private establishments that have banned these devices... Which feels like exactly what you're arguing against.
> so it will only stay in this business if a considerable number of people buy this. Vote with your money.

How many billions of dollars have been wasted on the Metaverse?

>Vote with your money

That doesn't work in a society with such extreme wealth inequality.

Not true. Meta’s target demographic aren’t billionaires. They are targeting a wide spectrum of normal people.
How does me not buying these glasses stop creeps from buying them to film people surreptitiously?

the legit uses don't need to be surreptitious.

Sorry but have you looked at AliExpress lately? You think glasses with hidden video cameras are something we have the ability to ban?

Meta has made the concept popular, but hardware feasibility already tipped the scales, these cameras are going to be ubiquitous and if not in glasses then in even more hidden formats like buttons and pinhole wearables.

So, make it a punishable offence? Maybe get a slap on the wrist the first time and go to jail the second time. That will get people thinking if it's worth it. And it will definitely stop the flood of weirdos that randomly film people to put them on their instatok.
Pretty sure filming people without their consent is already illegal?