Because most people don't need that much, especially with the new auto-delete of photos that have been copied to the cloud in Google Photo, love this feature.
That's why I said half the memory.. The other half would be for apps and stuff.
It'd be very interesting to see how much music people store on their phone when they use services like Spotify. I use it on a Nexus 4 and I've never had a problem with running out of space, but I don't have lots of games or anything on there. I honestly doubt it's much more than 2 or 3GB.
just because you personally don't have a need to store more things in the phone, doesn't mean other people won't have usage for these.
I don't like fragile cloud solutions, so my music is offline. I find it amazingly stupid to tell other people to "just delete some of it, because you probably won't listen to it twice". My offline car navigation takes more than 10 GB, and no thank you, I won't use google maps which are not that accurate in places I go, and require constant connectivity (which makes them useless in foreign countries, or in mountains).
My DCIM folder is cca 5 GB after 1 year of usage, and I shoot almost no videos which would make it explode.
FFS, it's almost end of 2015, having 32 GB model as your highest offering is... pathetic.
Agreed. I have a 64 GB iPhone 6 and over 1k songs synced to mobile on rdio. Rdio only takes up 8.4 GB, but total I have 31.1 GB used. I would have to go back to the radio if I didn't have that space, as I would probably be out of my 4 GB data plan half way through the month.
Yes, but I don't fill up my phone's storage during those activities.
The issue comes up if you use your phone solely as a camera without an accompanying connection for long enough to fill up internal storage without some way to offload it.
It's a situation that won't come up ever for most users of the phone, and as Wifi and Data coverage increases will become even more obscure.
It's typical in Europe to go abroad on holiday so the only coverage is via expensive roaming - I usually take lots of photos on holiday and like to use my phone to play music in my room or by the pool. Hotel WiFi is often expensive.
It's especially a problem while cruising - onboard WiFi is slow and expensive, buying a sim per country wastes time.
simply no. one example - in europe, there are still roaming charges. in mountains, there are still places with no internet at all (and it might surprise people like you, but no wifi either).
I'd prefer my entire audio collection on the same device, not because I want to listen to several months of music without interruption, but to be able to choose that particular album or track that perfectly fits my mood now.
Online music works nice as long as you're in a covered area (and the data traffic is of no concern). This is true for California highways but is often false for New York subway. This can also be an issue if you happen to travel abroad.
How hard is for some people to understand that whatever suits you, doesn't necessarily suits every single living person on this planet??? get out of your tiny little bubble for once, please.
I don't see any value for me in spotify, for example. In circles around me, spotify & co penetration is well below 50%, albeit most know about it.
Meanwhile, I got a base model Iphone 3gs back in 2009 that had 16GB minimum storage.
And 32GB is plenty except for X Y and Z (where Y is large app collections of games [Hearthstone alone is like 1.5GB on mobile] and Z is music collections where you don't want to spend $50 a month in data fees for things you have on your home hard drive) which precludes anyone using those from buying these devices.
All the cell companies are in a ruckus about how nobody bought 2015 flagships, but when the best storage you can get is 128GB on an S6 without a removable battery or SD slot for an insane like $200 premium over the minimum model you might want to stop price gouging as much if you want customers.
The iPhone 6 still starts from 16 GB, which I found very odd, as these days the minimum should be 32 GB. Like the Nexus 6 had, so now we are talking about a regression in the Nexus line.
This thing claims it shoots 4K video. That means at 32 GB you can shoot 30 minutes of uncompressed video or around an 60 minutes of compressed video (depending on a lot of factors, including compression ratio, format, etc).
The thing will likely overheat or run out of battery before 60 minutes of 4K video, but still the point stands, something that is featuring 4K video but then limits you to only 32 GB of storage is kind of contradictory.
I feel like this device is saying: "We support 4K video* (*but don't actually try to use it)."
PS - My point about overheat/battery is based on previous phones which claimed they supported 4K video. If you tried to use it the camera would switch off after a few minutes due to overheating, and the battery consumption would go through the roof.
Because apparently the cameras are so bad that nobody records video on them. Do you want to store your music and apps or record your kid's birthday? Tough choice.
I still have that phone and I can't imagine upgrading. Anything 5" and up doesn't fit well in my hand, and I'm a relatively big guy. The specs are more than enough for my needs, phone, work, messaging, music.
This looks awesome, I'm looking to update my Nexus. I don't really see the point of the 6p though, everything is slightly better than the 5X but not by that much
The press release on that is only two months old. This phone was probably in or near final testing by then, and definitely laid out. Components like this usually take at least six months to start to flow into end devices, because of the lead time required for manufacturing complex devices.
It's a great feature in general. I've had the google charging orb since the nexus 4 and not having to worry about unplugging/plugging in the phone is so nice. This is probably going to stop me from getting either of these new phones.
I really like the idea of wireless charging but the Qi devices I used left much to be desired. On the Nexus 4, the alignment is critical for it to work at all. The Nexus 5 fixed that issue with magnets but only if you had the official charger, otherwise you were back to trying to precisely align things. Randomly the Nexus 4 would freak out and forget it's charging or rapidly enter and exit charging mode, even on the LG charger. Devices would randomly decide to become hotplates, still haven't figured out what voodoo causes that to happen so I could avoid it. I'm pretty sure every 3rd party or knock off Qi charger I played with was a fire or shock hazard, probably both.
I think until they solve the range, alignment, and random hotplate issues that Qi is not ready for prime time. If they suddenly solve all of those issues I'll be gluing Qi chargers underneath every surface I own.
I have a 3rd party wireless charger and I've never really had problems with alignment. As long as it's vaguely lined up with the pad it works fine. I can do it without looking from in bed.
> As long as it's vaguely lined up with the pad it works fine.
I guess my objection is that the effort necessary to align the device on a pad. It requires as much effort aligning as plugging it into a micro USB connector albeit it's only a 1 handed operation.
Nope. Although, you can get 4 hours of use from a 10 minute charge over USB-C, so perhaps plopping it down on a pad for 8 hours isn't as convenient an alternative as it used to be.
That's a serious disappointment for me. I had my wallet in hand ready to buy, but I don't think I can go back to dealing with a charging cable. Wireless is so much easier... being able to grab my phone off its charge pad and return it again with one quick motion is great. And I can do it with my eyes closed at night.
A lot of people are saying that the oneplus one has unreliably hardware and buggy software. Reliability is much more important to me than saving a few bucks. I was planning on getting the Note 5 when the 64gb variant is available in Canada, but now I'm considering the 6P.
Google did a good job of avoiding the lack of OIS on both the 5X and 6P. I don't mind not having wireless charging capability, but OIS has proven to be a helpful feature when taking photos in less than ideal situations. I think, if size isn't an issue, the Nexus 6 is still a solid option at the reduced price point.
Though hard to say if this is true, it seemed their argument during the presentation was that the bigger sensor/pixels in both devices make up for the lack of OIS, and they specifically compared performance against the Nexus 6.
The 1.55 micrometer pixel sensors are interesting. If they actually do what they're supposed to, then exposure times should be decreased which would theoretically reduce the usefulness of OIS. I guess we'll see once the reviews start coming in.
Is the S6 identical to the S6 Edge? Looks like their Edge review had some comments questioning it, and while they confirmed the cameras are the same, they never confirmed on the comment regarding many S6's shipping with inferior Samsung sensors.
And unsurprisingly, it's half a foot tall (159mm, or 6.2 inches). My hands continue to cry. Is it what the future holds, that we should eventually hold mainframes up to our heads?
Maybe stop sitting on your phone? I've got a nexus 6 in my front pocket and it doesn't affect the way I sit.
There isn't a huge market for small portable phones because most people shelling out $500+ for a smart phone want to actually use it as a smart phone. They play games, watch shows and movies, read full novels, and browse the web. These are all experiences that are enhanced by having a larger screen. My wife upgraded to the iPhone 6s from her old phone (5s maybe?) and one of the first things she said about it was that the screen was small, despite it being considerably larger than her old phone.
I cannot understand how the "I want a small phone" crowd don't realize that they are in the minority.
I think there's a big market for a mini-tablet and bluetooth headset combo that can replace the phone completely. You get the huge screen, the dumb pipe tablet 4G contract, VOIP calling, can make most calls without taking the slab out via voice control.
If you miss hardware keyboard and you are not too dependent on Google services I suggest you to take a look at BlackBerry Passport. I have one. It is fine.
What does being fat have to do with fitting a large phone in your pocket?
I totally understand why some people want a small phone. But the "I mostly make calls and only occasionally need a browser/apps" is becoming a very niche market.
I really need to see a comparison between 6P, Moto X Pure, and current 6.
Those are the phones I need to decide between. Current 6 only b/c it should get cheap and the Snapdragon 820 comes out next year, but I'm not sure I can wait a year with my aging Moto X 2013.
Maybe it's not worth it to you but I'd love to see a comparison between the phones you listed but also toss the iPhone 6S+ in there. I don't have any brand loyalty and bounce back and forth between iOS and Android so it's always helpful for me when someone includes the iPhone in comparison.
I was looking at the same phones as you a few weeks ago, then the Nexus 6 price dropped to $350 on Amazon and I quickly jumped on it. Pretty solid phone for the price.
That's what's making me consider it. The Nexus 6 is a solid phone (my wife has it), it has wireless charging, a good camera, the Nexus brand - everything I want. It's just no longer "top of the line."
It'll have Marshmallow, so if it's cheap enough.. it's worth getting it and waiting for the 820 and hopefully new top of the line phones from Motorola and Google next year making use of them.
I actually just bought the Nexus 6 (moments ago) thanks to the above poster for mentioning the price drop. It is going to replace my N5.
Personally, i don't care about the "top of the line issue" in this case. As it stands, i absolutely love my N5. It is every bit the phone i want, and need. Price point is, of course, a huge part of it. Is it a $700 phone? Probably not. But my value of it is far higher than retail price ($250).
So i guess what i'm saying is, because i love my N5 so much, i don't "need" better. The N5X just feels like the same (but a bit better) phone, and since my N5 is still operating great, i have no need for it. On the flipside, the N6P is a bit too spendy for it's (personal) value. The Amazon price of the N6 on the otherhand, definitely raises the value bar, for me.
Quality with lower price points (N5 land) just makes me a really happy customer, totally willing to spend the coin.
I would not recommend the Moto X Pure. I have last year's Moto X Pure, here's my short summary (my personal opinion, so feel free to reply and explain why you disagree):
pros:
- good feel in the hand; not easy to drop
- like the choices for back, etc.
- decent camera for an Android device
- reasonable price
- superfast charging with Quick Charger
- mostly-stock android UI (read on though)
- Motorola UI customisations can usually be disabled
in favour of Android stock version (e.g. Lock screen)
cons:
- Motorola software updates significantly lag behind nexus
devices; took a long time to get stagefright security
fix
- over a dozen spontaneous phone reboots for no apparent
reason during last year (i have very few apps
installed, so it seems unlikely to be due to that, and
apps should never be able to cause that anyway)
- catastrophic and mysterious phone shutdown which lead to
rebooting to a black screen, which the only option for
recovering from was a factory reset (which meant I lost
all of the data I hadn't backed up yet, which for me,
was some pictures I had taken but hadn't backed up)
- poor battery life
- signal strength / reliability not as good as my spouse's
iPhone 6 plus; they often have data when I don't, even
though we have same carrier (AT&T)
- Some Motorola add-on software not removable
- Some Motorola customisations conflict with Android
standard customisations which leads to weird UI
interactions problems sometimes (mostly the lock screen)
My previous phone was a Nexus 5, which the software experience was generally better on since I got updates on a timely basis. However, the hardware experience was pretty poor (made by LG) and I went through two replacements due to GPS issues.
I have the Moto X not-pure for Verizon. I've had I think three spontaneous reboots, no catastrophic shutdown, seemingly identical signal strength to my iPhone, and while the battery is indisputably not a strength of Moto X, I reliably finish my day with 40% charge or so (and I run an app that continuously samples and sends my location in the background).
The Motorola software is indeed annoying, I wish it updated Android editions a bit faster, and specifically the lock screen doesn't interface that well with Android stuff.
I had an issue with my 2013 X (random reboots, repaired within two days), but the X 2014 has been very solid for me. Upgrades weren't as fast as I would have hoped (still waiting for the Stagefright fix in Germany), but hearing about issues that people had with the N5 (constantly crashing camera app, no voice during calls, etc.), I am a happy camper :).
I currently have no clue what's next. The Style (Pure) would be the spiritual successor to the 2014, but the Play has a much larger battery and can be purchased with dual-SIM in some EU countries. I was also looking at the Nexus, but I am a bit underwhelmed by the 5X (the 6P is too big for me). I guess I'll look how Motorola is with updates the coming months and then go with the Play.
The price is certainly right, but I really don't feel like the specs are any kind of leap that makes me want to upgrade from my Nexus 5.
Hexa-core is neat, but honestly I'd rather have software polish that meant rotating my phone while using the camera in video mode didn't mean some probability of a system reboot. Unfortunately my experience with both the Nexus 4 and 5 is that the stability is either never quite there or actually decreases dramatically as OS updates come out and Google's focus shifts.
Yes. With only 32GB, the "Use the cloud, Luke" is a bit pushy. The only thing selling me is the desire to get the USB Type C.
I've experienced what you are talking about, every time I get an OTA for the Nexus 5; the performance seems to degrade dramatically.
We're looking at spending $400 every 2 years to stay every other gen Nexus? That isn't horrible (55 cents a day or so). But if we pay for services to avoid storage on the phone, the cost rises.
Nothing about the CPU/Etc makes me think it's time for an upgrade.
Honestly the cloud push doesn't bother me, although I'd suspect I don't go about it the way Google wants.
I host my own Subsonic media server which means that I can just set a cache size in Android (5GB right now) and let it automatically download my media as I consume it and push old stuff out of the cache.
Combined with Dropbox camera uploads I generally don't use much more than 10GB of storage on my phone.
Just out of curiosity: what mobile network traffic do you have? Over here in germany, i would certainly kill my free 1 gigabyte per month, even with cache size set to ~ 25 gigabyte.
A2DP Bluetooth on the Nexus 4 has degraded significantly since it's launch. The current iteration is pretty awful, having to reboot daily to avoid silence gaps, but it's world better than Kit Kat.
I don't understand how they could get such an important feature so wrong.
I forgot about this but it truly is horrible. Mine somehow gets into a state that not only required rebooting my phone but also restarting my car stereo.
I ended up doing a Factory Reset on my Nexus 4 and was close to tearing my car apart to get at the aftermarket Bluetooth Adapter but thankfully decided to check connectivity with a handful of portal speakers I had first and realized it wasn't the car.
Yeah, my Nexus 4 has started rebooting by itself pretty often and it also keeps "losing" the SIM card somehow (by checking uptime it seems it doesn't reboot, but it still asks me to enter the SIM PIN as if the phone had restarted). Really annoying. It means it's no longer reliable as a phone because you're unable to receive calls after either of those occurs randomly of course.
I don't really care about Android either, it's just a cheesy delivery platform for Google services which I don't want. But none of the alternatives seem much better either... Still, I started looking at Apple.
Why did Google bother with all of that work to fix SD storage in Android M[0] if they're still not going to put an SD card in their Nexus phones!?!
I was holding out hope that I would finally have a reason to buy a Nexus phone with the 5X or 6P, but now that we have the final spec sheet, I think I'm going to just grab an HTC One M9 or something. The lack of expandable storage really kills it for me.
Serious question - do you really use more than 128GB on your phone? If so, at what point would internal storage be good enough for you to not require extendable storage?
128 GB would be enough, but I resent having to pay an extra $150 for it as internal storage when I can find a 128gb memory card for about $60 on Amazon.
The internal memory is much faster than SD cards, and potentially more reliable. I think Google and Samsung have decided to ditch sd cards to prevent the user having a shitty experience.
Also, Google is offering 128GB, which is pretty decent. And their pricing is much less than Samsung's for 64gb vs 32gb.
It may be, but you only have to buy one high-speed (U3?) microSD card once (every 4-6 years), while if you need 128GB storage in your phone but it only comes as internal, then with every phone you buy you'll have to pay that extra premium.
It depends on the device, but I'm working with the Qualcomm DragonBoard 410c (similar to a phone in some respects), and eMMC memory is WAY faster than SD cards.
I have tried two different 128GB cards on my Note 3. The first one died after a few months, the second one is currently having problems. My next phone will have at least 128GB internal storage (iPhone or 6P).
Right, because they makes more sense than ditching them because they are an unreliable mess that cause more problems than they solve, and are not necessary for the vast majority of users.
Do you think apple never supported SD cards because they wanted more people to put stuff in icloud?
What makes them an "unreliable mess that cause more problems than they solve"? I've never had a single problem with an SD card. I put files on it, sometimes I read those files.
> Do you think apple never supported SD cards because they wanted more people to put stuff in icloud?
Uhh... of course? Both companies charge extra for more space — Apple past 5GB and Google past 15GB. They make money by forcing you to upgrade your online storage.
Not iCloud: Apple would prefer you buy all your storage (NAND) from Apple rather than Kingston, Samsung or SanDisk. Soldered, with an Apple-sized margin.
Then amend the parent and instead say "I feel ripped off paying $150 premium for a 128GB model when I could buy a desktop 512GB 850 Evo for that much".
And I guarantee you Samsungs SSD options are faster than their phone flash, because they go for performance way more on desktop parts.
The SD cards are a better price comparison because they will use a similar stacking technology to get the small form factor. The main difference is SD cards need a controller which adds cost.
> I think Google and Samsung have decided to ditch sd cards to prevent the user having a shitty experience.
This line of reasoning makes absolutely no sense. How could having the option to use an SD card with your device make for a shittier UX. The use of an SD expansion slot is completely optional, if you don't have the desire to use an SD card it has absolutely no bearing on the UX, and if you do, no matter how shitty the UX, it will always be preferable to the absence of removable media capabilities altogether.
Because there is an opportunity cost to having an SD slot. Remember it takes up physical space inside the device, which could be used for more internal memory, battery space etc. they would have opted for something everyone wants over a smaller subset of users
That sounds more like an engineering challenge than a UX compromise. Also, as these heated threads show, what "everyone wants" is a bit elusive. I think they could overcome these "costs" if they wanted, but they don't -- the actual UX "cost" of complicating how the user interacts with storage is probably one reason why.
> Because there is an opportunity cost to having an SD slot. Remember it takes up physical space inside the device, which could be used for more internal memory, battery space et
There are opportunity costs for everything, but microsd readers are a cheap, mature, commodity technology that's been in top-end phones for ages, its impact on the phone's available real-estate for battery and memory is nearly negligible.
The more storage someone has available, the more they might use. I could see carrying around a phone with 4 TB of storage, holding all my operating systems, data, HD movies and video games, for instance, and simply plugging it into terminals and booting on more powerful hardware.
They did the work for third parties to keep it an an option for the lower end market. The higher end market has shown it doesn't care about SD cards and, honestly, I think for good reason: their user experience has always been terrible.
Internal storage is faster and more reliable so I think you're always going to see more and more phones, especially flagships, not offer expandable options.
SD card user experience is terrible, so we will fix the user experience (and just make them a joint overlay FS) but not include one, while still shipping phones with 16-64GB capacities like we did five years ago.
If they want me to ever buy an SD card-less phone, they better start shipping 256GB options at the real cost of the flash memory involved (ie, $40 more expensive over a 64GB option, not $100 or more).
When you are shipping phones with cameras nearing 20+ MP where you would fill up the paltry internal storage (what, like 10GB after OS on the 16GB models?) in a thousand photos at PNG compression (ie, about 10MB a shot) you are doing it wrong, especially when SSD manufacturers are about to start shipping 4TB options in m.2 form factors (ie, the size of a small candy bar).
Still, SD cards are still fine for storing large amounts of photos, videos, and music. And as a proud father of a 1.5 year old, I like to stash a lot of photos/videos on my phone.
their user experience has always been terrible.
The other obvious reason is that phone manufacturers like to overcharge on extra storage.
I think you're always going to see more and more phones, especially flagships, not offer expandable options.
Not everyone is moving in that direction. E.g. the new Moto Xs support SD cards, while the previous generations didn't.
"The higher end market has shown it doesn't care about SD cards and, honestly, I think for good reason: their user experience has always been terrible."
But that's just an easy software fix away. There is nothing inherent to SD cards (or removable storage in general) that makes it a tough UI case. It's pretty simple, actually,
> There is nothing inherent to SD cards (or removable storage in general) that makes it a tough UI case. It's pretty simple, actually,
See, you're thinking in terms of UI but I'm talking about user experience (which isn't just UI). It sounds like they essentially fixed the UI type of issues in Android M but SD cards are still slower, once you install it you really don't want to ever remove it or if you do god knows what happens now that the storage is unified and good luck explaining how to use and install one to a non-tech savvy person. After working years in retail I don't believe the majority of customers for digital cameras understood cards let alone _optional_ cards in phones.
Well, if android phones still had the ability to masquerade as a USB drive (in order to move files/photos/whatever) on and off, then I could see leaving the SD card in place forever.
But android phones don't currently have the ability to behave as a simple USB drive when you plug them into the computer.
So if you're even a little bit discerning, and you refuse to install silly helper apps and photo-importers and android-buddy programs on your computers, you need some other (sane) way to move files on and off the phone - and that is the SD card.
They're just files. You don't need a little helper app or to open up iPhoto and "import" or any of this silliness. You just need a dumb block device that you can move back and forth.
As far as I can tell, the decision to remove Mass Storage had two main drivers:
* The removal of SD cards from mainstream phones
* The use of ext4 as a main filesystem on a lot of phones.
The removal of SD cards meant that you could no longer "unmount" part of the phone filesystem to present it as a mass storage device. The use of ext4 meant that many OSes had no idea how to mount the storage, even if you presented it as a block device.
I'm not sure anyone will read this, but I think you could implement a FAT emulation layer over USB Gadget, at least enough to get car head-decks to play MP3s off the phone. If anyone wants to take a crack at this, please get in touch with me.
My impression was that the loss of mass storage was due to a licensing issue with fat32, wherein android (google) had to pay some little license fee to MS for each copy ...
But that's what the commenter was saying, Google has been putting work into making the experience less terrible.
Also, Motorola and LG both have flagships with expandable storage. Everyone runs out of 32GB, and having an SD card handy to make more on-device storage available can only improve the user experience.
The thing is, internal storage isn't necessarily faster. Sure, it is on the top tier $750 and up premium-priced phones like the iPhone 6s (which has very fast internal storage). But we're talking about a much less expensive phone here. Let's compare:
64GB Nexus 6P: $549
64GB iPhone 6S+: $849
So, you really shouldn't expect the Nexus 6P to be using the top-tier internal storage solutions Samsung rolls out as used in the iPhone and Samsung phones. Yes, a lot of that $300 price difference is for the Apple name, especially when you factor in the lower resolution 6S+ 1080p screen. But quite a bit of it is used for the polishing bits that make the phone faster... like much faster storage.
As a data point, the high-end Sandisk 64GB microSD cards are about $50 and are around 3x faster than the internal storage in my Nexus 6. They're hitting 95 MB/s read, 90 MB/s write now.
While a microSD won't top out at the 200 MB/s you get from last year's top-tier storage available in the Samsung S6 and iPhone 6 (not to mention the twice as fast Samsung storage in the new iPhone 6s and upcoming Samsung phone), they'll perform better than the internal storage in most mid-tier phones and all low-tier phones, which is all most folks need for photos and videos.
What's so terrible about the user experience? I put in an SD card, my phone has more storage space, and I don't think about it any more. Seems like a pretty perfect user experience.
It doesn't work like that, unfortunately. You can't use your SD as extensions of your device storage capacity, it can store just "your" files (as photos, musics, videos etc). You still need device capacity to install apps and apps use device to store things like cache.
You can move some of that to SD, but not everything. You'll end up with zero phone capacity and a pretty empty SD.
1. The Nexus line is supposed to be something like Google's Android reference device, and implements the minimum common set of features -- up-to-date computing hardware and screen, reasonable-resolution cameras, standard set of sensors (GPS, acceleration, etc.). An SD card slot doesn't really add any technical possibilities.
2. Google probably wants to push the idea that any storage beyond local apps should be to the cloud.
(which is comically unviable in Canada, where you're paying $25-50 per 1 GB of mobile data)
---
A year ago, I got a Nexus 5 after a long search for a replacement for my stalwart iPhone 3GS. The lack of SD card was the primary sticking point, and caused me days of choice-agony. In the end, price and "cleanliness" (stock android, lack of shitware, doesn't fight software customization very hard) won out.
I pay $30 for 6GB of LTE data per month (Rogers, via a promotional plan that they've offered countless times). And I generally use about 200MB in an average month as I'm virtually always around WiFi of some sort. Which is exactly what Google envisions, with most of their cloud solutions defaulting to only operating over WiFi.
SD storage has always been a mess on Android because it was originally added just as an easy way to port music and movies over. It was essentially supposed to be read-only memory. Then of course apps and users started using it and the ugly, messy history is notorious.
I'm not in Canada, but I do use Google Play Music on my commute (2-3hrs per day) with it's streaming curated playlists. That eats through a ton of bandwidth. That chewed through about 3GB last month before I had to stop listening while out and about.
It simplifies managing storage for users. Per Matias Duarte, who I think was Director of Android User Experience at the time: [1]
Everybody likes the idea of having an SD card, but in reality it's just confusing for users.
If you’re saving photos, videos or music, where does it go? Is it on your phone? Or on your card? ... We take a different approach. Your Nexus has a fixed amount of space and your apps just seamlessly use it for you without you ever having to worry about files or volumes or any of that techy nonsense left over from the paleolithic era of computing.
Remember the vast majority of users have vastly less technical understanding than HN readers.
You could say the same thing about cloud storage, couldn't you? As with extra local storage, that has additional UI baggage, which comes along with extra utility for the user. To be able to bring with you all of your music or photos, without requiring a connection, is a massive benefit.
That also doesn't explain sticking with the same storage options from two years ago, even though prices have plummeted in the meantime.
Yeah, for me it is hard to take this at face value when Google has a vested interest in cloud storage from the standpoint of data analysis, platform lock-in, and subscription revenue.
Since every Android phone I've ever had takes SD, the process of transferring all my data over is basically just pulling the card out of the old phone and putting it into the new phone. This unfortunately doesn't handle reinstallation of my apps and migration of data like texts and calls. Google's done all this work, and there still isn't a simple migration path. Give me a simple way to boot up the 6P and have all my data migrated over, and I'll kiss my SD card goodbye. In the meantime, the user experience is still broken.
I have the Z3 which is also 5.2" and has a 3100 mAh battery compared to the 2700 mAh battery in this. And seemingly that costs you no thickness as the Z3 is actually slightly thinner (7.3 mm vs 7.9 mm for this). They're both 1920 x 1080 LCD at 423 ppi.
In my experience 3000 mAh at 5.2" is the sweet spot, as below that you might rarely run out of juice under heavy usage. Above that no matter how heavy your usage is you'll get that whole day (and multiple days under light load).
You can buy an unlocked Sony Z3 for $400 right now (32 GB storage).
This person has 70 to sell, Buy It Now, New, unlocked, 32 GB, for $420.90 (free shipping offered, from Texas). Well reviewed for selling similar items:
$379, not $399. There's an optional $69 2-year protection plan, which would cost $99 from SquareTrade. It also comes with a $50 Play Store credit. If you would've spent the money on the warranty and Play Store anyway, that makes it a $300 phone.
I think they meant that, because the Google provided protection plan is cheaper, you're saving money, assuming you're going to get the protection plan either way.
I wanted the 5X but it seems like that only comes with 2 gigs of Ram and gets 32 gigs max storage.
For future proofing I prefer to have more memory and storage.
+1 on Fi. It's the sleeper feature that justifies trading up to one of these bad boys.
I spend much of my time in wifi, as does my wife, and I suspect we can shave minimum $40 a month off our phone bills if we were both using Fi phones. It wouldn't take long to pay for itself.
My Nexus 4's speaker failed just after a year. I replaced it with a Nexus 5, whose speaker and microphone failed after 7 months. I did a warranty exchange and the refurbished Nexus 5 now in my pocket's speaker and microphone just went out about a week ago. They share a flex cable that runs under the battery and seems to go bad somehow. I messed with the connection but it didn't fix it. I've preordered the 5x, but this time with the 2-year warranty.
Huh... bought a bunch of Nexus4's 3 years ago for family members (a mix of younger and older people). Some of them are still in use, some of them upgraded. Not a single complaint about random hardware failures (except for worsening battery life of course). Also haven't heard this particular complaint about Nexus devices on the forums etc. Are you sure this is not something specific to your use patterns?
Oh, it's not uncommon. I've commiserated over these issues with dozens of others in Android message boards. There are YouTube videos where people show how to "fix" it, mostly involving jamming things inside the case to hold the flex cable connector in place more firmly. I don't do anything with my phone except put it in my front pant pocket, hold it in my hand, or set it on a wireless charging pad.
The price is fine -- in the US. The markup in Germany, and presumably the other EUR-countries, is enormous. The $380 Nexus 5X 16 GB will be sold (when? who knows) for 480 EUR. $380 at today's rates with the 20% VAT added on top is 405 EUR. Maybe I'm missing some massive import duties that go on top of the VAT.
Your tone is uncalled for. I included the 20% VAT which results in ~405 EUR, and I'm fine with it. I do mind the remaining 75 EUR that go on top of it. Though I just found out that about half of that goes to the copyright industry[1].
I'd guess the other half is going towards things like localizing text and dealing with getting the device certified for the market, etc. You could say the same about the initial English version and USA certifications - but those are generally bundled into the core product while the German part would be extras. Yeah that does mean you're paying for both the English version and USA certifications when you buy the device in Germany even though you aren't using those, but that's life.
They mention: "15W of power so you can charge your USB Type-C enabled phones and tablets quickly. Also works with large USB Type-C devices, like laptops.¹".
And the footnote: "¹Wattage is optimized for smaller devices, like phones and tablets. Larger devices, like laptops, will take longer to charge. Delivers maximum charge speed to Nexus 5X and Nexus 6P. Charge time depends on USB Type-C device. Larger devices, such as the Chromebook Pixel, will typically need more charge time with this adapter (Pixel estimated charge time is 5.6 hours at 15W with system off)."
Well if you go by the spec then USB1 and USB2 can only deliver 0.5A. Apple seems to have settled as 2.1A as the most current you can run through a USB connector without getting it too hot.
Not sure about the connector, but I have heard reports that some cheaper USB cables with thinner-gauge wires already cannot handle the current from some chargers that are on the market.
I can imagine USB-C only makes this more of a concern, since the USB Power Delivery spec allows up to 5 A @ 20 V.
That's also probably true, but your comment lacks some kind of explanation for people like me who actually know nothing about electrical engineering and can only make reasonable guesses.
I'd love to hear what the reason is for not offering a detachable cable ("I don't know why they wouldn't offer a detachable cable" being a completely fair answer).
That's a pretty major gripe in my book. The beauty of the USB charger is that they continue to be useful when the standard changes to the next connector type. My USB chargers dutifully charge my regular (battery), mini (camera), and micro (phone) devices without protest.
Huh, I've actually been wanting something like this for my Macbook for travel (since the USB-C cable is charge-only anyways, it doesn't do me a lot of good for it to have two ends -- I'm not going to be plugging it into untrusted USB ports to charge anyways). Compactness is much more important to me. Will have to see what people say about the durability though.
EDIT: Of course, the wattage is too low, so no dice anyways.
Blackberry made one for their tablet. I picked up the charger for not much money on Amazon. I use it to charge my Android phone. It's a really nice charger with a long cable. It has enough output that Quickcharge likes it, too.
I would imagine they implemented it exactly like Google in that they're stored only on the OS and it needs your code to decrypt them. Anything else just doesn't sit right.
Ugh. First off they need to only store hashes of fingerprints, not the fingerprint images themselves. But I hope they are smart enough to do that by now.
Second, it's not supposed to be "on the OS". It's supposed to be in TrustZone, the "secure world" separated from the OS. I hope that's what they did, but I worry they may have adopted a more "universal" solution that's a little higher level and less secure (even though TrustZone should be in virtually all ARM chips).
> First off they need to only store hashes of fingerprints, not the fingerprint images themselves. But I hope they are smart enough to do that by now.
That sounds pretty impressive. How would this be done? You're not going to get the same file by scanning the same physical finger twice.
Fingerprints are recognized by comparing an image to a stored record of salient features, not to another image. But as far as I can see (and I have no further knowledge of the area), you kind of need the actual record, and the identifying information it contains, in order to see if an image matches it.
There are lots of algorithms that take an image and produce a so called perceptual hash that matches all images that 'look' the same. phash.org is a popular open source implementation of one such algorithm
Most likely they do not store the image of the fingerprint. They may store the minutae which is not that good. But if they store the hash of the minutae (something like locality sensitive hash) it would be quite safe.
The US prices are reasonable, but the UK prices are just horrendous. £500 for the 6P brings it out of the range of "I'm due an upgrade anyway" into luxury territory.
In terms of the software, the Nexus phones are some of the best I've ever had, because they don't mess around with Android to try and 'improve' it, and because they get regular, timely upgrades. My Nexus 4 is still going strong several years after I got it. I'm tempted by the 5x, though I wish it were a bit smaller.
Another Nexus 4 owner! My girlfriend has been giving me crap about how my phone is going to be 3 years old in a month and how I need a new phone. I don't. They are all plastic/glass bricks with the same Android operating system in them. I wish my battery life were better, which I guess would warrant a new phone.
I don't like that the battery is under 3000 mAh but it is only $380...though I guess others are saying that the Moto X Pure and the Xperia Z3 are around the same price point but better?
The Nexus 4 had great battery life initially - you could get through nearly 2 days with it. After a lot of use, mine is not so great any more, but still quite usable - I don't have to worry about whether it'll make it through the day.
Same here - actually the Nexus 4 still is a great solid phone. But besides the battery life, storage space for apps is a problem for me. Since the latest Android updates, apps got a lot bigger and I regularly need to delete stuff to be able to get all the app updates.
Maybe it's time for a new phone now.
Since Lollipop it's been agonizingly slow for me. Apps take 4-6 seconds to open, opening a web page can render the phone unresponsive for seconds at a time. My wife's has become unstable, hard-locking and/or rebooting several times a day. Using the camera in particular seems to cause it to misbehave, which is unfortunate as she loves taking pictures.
It's been a great phone, no doubt, and we've loved ours, but it feels like it's time to move on to the next thing.
I'm at the point of considering upgrading my N4 to an S6 or this new N5 but really was hoping for a higher-end phone in an N4 form factor. Seems like nobody wants to make a high-end phone for smaller hands these days.
As an owner of Nexus 5 I must say I'm a bit disappointed with this announcement. I was looking forwards to upgrading my almost two year old phone to Nexus 5x, but there doesn't seem to be a good reason unless Nexus 5 stops getting new Android updates.
They have the same resolution, same amount of memory, same amount of storage. I don't shoot video, and I probably won't use fingerprint reader - but I do use wireless charging every day.
Why are you disappointed? It sounds like a device you bought a few years ago has a longer useful lifespan than you thought. You get to have a state of the art phone for less money when you own it longer.
I wonder if devices will start to be built better, with more replaceable components as the rate of spec improvements in mobile devices slows down.
My phones seem to last 24-30 months; they just eventually take enough damage from being in my pocket and moved around all day every day that they die. And battery life goes to crap. I too was hoping for a nice nexus 5 upgrade.
Yow. Here's a perspective from someone who has only owned two iPhones:
I purchased the first gen on release day (2007) and carried it my pocket every day without a case until the 5 came out in 2012. I still have it, it still works.
I bought my iPhone 5 in 2013 and carry it my pocket every day without a case. It has some cosmetic damage.
Not fanboy-ing; I think it's legitimately interesting that most smartphones are still designed the way early cell phones were: plastic case around components, clipped or screwed on, flimsy from day one.
I treat my smartphones like garbage and have only ever broken my iPhone 6 (shattered screen). I still have all of my Android phones since the original T-Mobile G1 and they all still work.
Now that Nexus has the fingerprint sensor I'm never getting another iPhone.
Yeah, the nexus 5 is noticeably less well built than my partner's iphone. There are gaps around pieces of the frame and lint gets in; the plastic takes more damage; etc.
Not the OP (although I feel exactly the same), but I'm disappointed because the battery life on my Nexus 5 is going nowhere but down... but I am not going to buy a new phone with exactly the same RAM and storage (and no SD card slot). The features they have added I don't care about (fingerprint scanner, better camera).
I may well buy a new phone, but there is zero chance it will be a 5x.
It's not a tease. At today's event, they specifically said the Nexus 5 gets 30% better battery life with Marshmallow, mostly due to the "deep sleep" when you leave the screen off for a long time.
Same thing happened to my battery, so I bought a new one and followed a YouTube video to replace it myself. Although the battery isn't meant to be replaceable, the process was not too terribly difficult. Maybe consider that as an option, too.
I've read others describe the same, but when I went to look for a part I've been overwhelmed by the purchasing process. There seem to be several sources for this part and I have no idea how to guarantee its quality. I know the replacement is easy enough, having already had to disassemble the phone to replace the display.
Can you tell me where you found the battery you are using now?
I'm disappointed by the 5X. I was planning to replace the Nexus 5, but the 5x really does not appear to be a good value. If I can really get usable battery life out of the Nexus 5, I'll gladly keep using it, because there's very little else about it that seems in any way deficient.
To be honest I didn't spend a lot of shopping around on batteries. I bought the one I found on Amazon that seemed to be made for Nexus 5, and it works: http://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00NCJMQXK
I was having the same experience where I was getting super disappointing battery performance and was ready to replace it, when I read an article where the author claimed it is very unlikely the battery is at the end of its life (wish I could find it) and it is even more unlikely that a battery you buy off of eBay/Amazon will be better than the one you already have.
Turn off Google Fit, turn off always on OK Google hotword detection, clear the Google Play Services cache.
I'm a little disappointed too. Don't get me wrong, my N5 is great and it doesn't have many disadvantages... but the stuff people really want should be more doable now. For example, a replaceable battery? Maybe an included thumblonger so you can reach the top-left corner :P
I have an LG G3 which I paid $50 for (upgrade price) which included an extra battery and battery charger (promo period). Being able to swap in a fully charged battery in seconds is something I now depend on when I travel - I never have any battery life anxiety. The lack of swappable batteries on most phones is a huge turnoff for me.
The potential deal breaker for me is the storage space. You can't just rely on having WiFi everywhere you go. Cell phone plans have data caps. I need to be able to store data on my device. I really don't understand their reasoning. I can get over not having a removable battery, but not having expandable storage is idiotic.
They also just updated the apk file size limit from 50MB to 100MB. On top of that, they made the video camera capture at a higher frame rate which will take up more space.
My iPod from nearly a decade ago has 80GB of storage. I don't want to have an extra device just for music anymore.
My iPod Classic has 160MB, but it seems to be getting worse. I'm torn between either getting a phone (iPhone or 6P) with 128GB or getting the new iPod Touch with 128GB and keeping my Note 3 (I have had consistent trouble with 128GB cards).
I was a Nexus 5 owner up until I dropped it a few months ago, shattering the screen, and was banished to an iphone 5s. Wireless charging was one of the things I missed most about my nexus, and I was fairly disappointed when I heard these two wouldn't be including it.
If I still had my Nexus 5, I doubt I'd even be considering a 5x or a 6p.
The lack of wireless charging is a major drawback for me. I've come to really appreciate being able to drop my phone on the charging pad in landscape mode and have it launch the clock interface.
I don't see any official dock for the 5x so far, and most 3rd party ones won't support landscape.
The useful life is limited by duration of security updates,
if you care about such things. Google are strictly following their recently announced 18 month/3 year rule. Eg no Stagefright update to 5.1.1 for the Nexus 7 v1 even though it was just a few months previously updated to 5.1.1
This means you probably should only buy Nexus devices when they're new to market, unless you're happy with a 18 month lifespan for your device.
> Nexus 4, Nexus 5, Nexus 6, Nexus 7, Nexus 9, and Nexus 10 devices get the latest version of Android directly from Google. These devices will receive Android version updates for at least two years from when the device first became available on the Google Store.
> Nexus devices will also receive updates for security issues considered Critical for at least the following periods:
> * Three years from when the device first became available on the Google Store
> * Or, 18 months after the device stopped being sold on the Google Store
Yep. Notice how this phrasing does not say the listed models are currently being updated, just says how support length is calculated. Nexus 7 (2012) Stagerfright update is just missing without specific un-announcement, but it fits the schedule. It was sold till early 2013, 18 months from that... See threads on XDA etc for discussion on its absence.
Thank you for reference . Now you have facts . This makes sense , my next phone definitely will not be a nexus (and believe me I was hardcore fan of nexus since the day they begun nexus program). Getting update for only 2 year ? Give me a break . I will be switch to another platform , definitely , I was waiting for ubuntu phone . I will seriously consider them for my next purchase.
I am thinking about ditching whole phone/tablet or switching to phone with official support of CyanogenMod (which I think that didn't go anywhere).
p.s. For multiple times when somebody claimed that , their only references was AndroidPolice site , which I don't give shit about . But seems google quietly updated their policy. (which is unacceptable for me as power user)
Which platform are you going to switch to exactly that has a better official update policy than this one?
Not trying to be snarky, but Google's policy is as good or better than most (perhaps all? I haven't heard of a better option, though they may exist) and at least they are completely transparent about it. They also have good policies around keeping the bootloaders unlockable so if they do EOL it and you want to update with unofficial builds, that's an option, just not one they officially support for all sorts of obvious reasons.
Think of it like this , in near future (maybe in 2016 holiday) you can buy device with Tegra X1 processor which is almost power full as low end desktop device (which I have 3 of them and I run ARCH on them ). Okay ? but the fun part comes here, these devices after two year will become obsolete , you know why ? not because of their hardware , because their hardware will be more than enough for running ordinary tasks , just because fucking big names like Google,Samsung,etc don't want you to keep your device long enough .
The problem with old devices was their lack of power for new increasing computing even for ordinary people (because this industry was infant). But ARM architecture based SoC and embedded CPU will pass (or passing/passed) a threshold . After this threshold you will be able to run ordinary app (I am not talking about high end 3d 4k gaming, I am talking about browsing internet,chatting , reading) for daily usage maybe for 5 year or even more.
but your device will become obsolete , because of these thief's . ( I hate how big corporation ripping people off )
Let me give you an instance , you can have a pc desktop with 2gb ram from 2008 . If you are using your device for reading and ordinary job I bet you can install windows 10-32bit (which is state of art) on it and use it without any serious issue . This is the problem with whole ecosystem of Gadgets. Even if you buy a device with tegra x1 SoC(which is powerful as shit) , You should throw it away after 2 year , or you are sticking to old version of android (put aside how much security threat it has) .They can develop a solution for this problem with spending money. But why spending money when they can rip off people ?
I don't disagree with any of this... I just don't see what alternatives you have that are superior to what Google offers with the Nexus line.
Even the handsets that are sold on the idea of open source have spotty records when it comes to supported OTA updates beyond a year or so after release.
Given the lack of any ideal alternative, I'm personally sticking with Nexus devices and just going with unofficial builds of the OS when it makes sense to do so.
>Given the lack of any ideal alternative, I'm personally sticking with Nexus devices and just going with unofficial builds of the OS when it makes sense to do so.
I can understand your (and most people) point of view about this problem , but this is not how I encounter with my problems. Personally I am sure non of nexus device (no matter how they will be good) will be my next device . (I am planning to switch device in next month)
The one thing I want to mention and personally I cannot tolerate Google shows himself as savior of us from Microsoft/Apple.But it is not , it is as bad as Microsoft of Apple (I would say maybe even worse than them).
I just hate how they can handle media and most people thinks Google is different than any other dirty company out there.
Google literally ripping people off.Google can provide more update to solve the problem(or at least make problem less intense ). But instead they just went to opposed direction. They instead of solving problem. Literally made it harder to solve .
I hope they don't, I don't want to pay for such a thing.
Given the US cell carriers move towards a leasing model for devices, I think there are many people who don't want to pay for updates to 5 year old devices. I don't like that move, I'd prefer to see people paying upfront for cheap devices, but I take it as a evidence that more people want new devices than want updates forever.
My wife dropped her N5 a few weeks ago and cracked the screen (why are phones still so delicate?). We bought the new Moto G that night from Best Buy. Its pretty much a Nexus 5 but with a 720p screen instead of a 1080p screen. She loves having twice the battery life and the $179 pricepoint was mindblowing. The low and mid range in Android is very competitive. I'm not sure what this new N5 is bringing to the table other than the AOSP Nexus experience. A slightly faster SoC and maybe a little extra battery life? For $400 with tax and shipping, I'm just not seeing the hype that's been dominating /r/android for months.
$499 for a decent 6 inch phone seems like the real story here. Especially if it gets the typical Nexus price cut 6-9 months out. $449 or $399 for this could happen sooner than later, which would be an amazing deal. $499 is still really good, considering the previous N6 launched at $650. I'm surprised Samsung didn't balk at this, its pretty much a shot at their Note line which typically sells for $600+ unsubsidized. I think Google is trying hard to make phablets happen for non-techies any way they can, even to the point of pissing off their biggest OEM's. I also suspect there's some politicking here as Google is trying to groom Huawei to go after Samsung's massive marketshare. Samsung being the defacto Android product isn't good for Google or Android.
The design of the Nexus 5 has a razor thin plastic bezel surrounding the edge of the screen glass. Minor bumps push through the plastic and crack the glass from the edge where the glass is weakest. The push for thin phones and tiny bezels is a cancer on phone design.
I've never seen anyone decide not to get an iPhone because the screen is too fragile. I have seen people decide to upgrade their phone because the screen on their old one is broken.
The screen kinda has to be made of glass, and even Dow Corning's finest will break if it hits a hard surface. I believe synthetic sapphire is available for watches and smartwatches but not for any actual phones?
The 3210 glory era of 'indestructible' Nokias had the glass under plastic (polycarbonate?), and weren't touchscreens.
That was also the big era of replaceable phone cases. I think people who are worried about the frailty of the phone buy secondary-market protective cases these days.
But protective cases makes my point about poor design. If the only way I can stop my phone being damaged during normal use is to wrap it in 3rd party protective case then the design failed.
I just checked -- the 2nd gen model Moto G is $149.99 on the Motorola website (free shipping). Add a few bucks of tax and it's still one third the price of these other offerings. MicroSD slot, water resistant, 5" display, pure Android experience. This is what the Nexus should have been. Except unfortunately it lacks NFC, ditto the 2015 model.
If it had NFC I'd consider getting one myself, but unfortunately that's a showstopper for me -- I write NFC apps for a living.
If Moto would put NFC in this bad boy, they'd have a killer phone!
Now, the Moto X for $400 does have NFC - plus a microSD slot. Hmmm.
Wireless charging seems to be something very few people use, but those that do love it so much they would not want to trade it.
Being able to simply lay my phone on my bedside table at night and have it fully charged the next morning is such a nice thing to have.
So the thing is, the Nexus 5 was a near-perfect phone (especially considering it was released two years ago), and it's totally reasonable to think it's still doing the job very well -- it is.
But that's a fact about the N5, not the N5X/6P. I mean, what would you want from a new phone that would show up on a spec sheet?
Faster? Check, both of these are. The 808/810 aren't gigantic generational leaps over the 800, but they're significantly faster + 64-bit.
Better screen? They're both bigger; >1080p resolution seems irrelevant on a 5"-ish screen (though obviously welcome on larger screens where 1080p would be under 400 dpi).
More storage? Well, the 6P gives that to you, though the 5X doesn't.
USB Type-C and faster charging? Check.
Better camera? Check.
Bigger battery? Check (2300 mAh for N5, 2700 mAh for 5X).
More RAM? Check on the 6P, the same on the 5X.
Plus the fingerprint thing is probably a bigger deal than you think. Loss of wireless charging is definitely a minus, though.
So that's one downgrade, two specs that haven't changed on the 5X, and six that have; eight of those specs are better on the 6P. That's not a small upgrade, it's just that you have no reason to bother with an upgrade.
Also, the improved 808 SoC at 20nm manufacturing process should offer better battery life over the 800 in the N5, even if they had the same battery capacity (which they don't, so it's a double-whammy there).
The 808 is also a big little architecture, with two A57 cores and four A53 cores. The A53 cores will likely carry the vast majority of every day use, and redouble the battery savings.
As a Nexus 5 user I'm pleased with most of the changes and non-changes. 2GB is fine for a smartphone, and an image sensor with more than double the light capture area per pixel is brilliant, and if it delivers the better photographs will be worth it right there. Losing OIS...I don't think that's a downgrade as OIS was always suspect to begin with (not least because OIS only helps for lateral movements. It does nothing for rotational movements, and of course make subjects stand still. It yielded a tonne of unusable photos).
The only thing I'm really displeased about is the removal of wireless charging. That was a really nice feature.
Between the Snapdragon 810 and 808, the only real items of concern is that the 808 does not have h265 hardware encoding (the 810 does), and its image processing DSP is 12-bit per pixel rather than the 14-bpp of the 810.
"The A53 cores will likely carry the vast majority of every day use, and redouble the battery savings."
non-ARM-manufacturer citation needed :).
My experience as a compiler guy (that makes the toolchains for these kinds of phones) has been that big little brings improvements to what these guys can shove on a chip and advertise, but so far not real improvements to battery life or real numbers.
There reason why is pretty simple.
In an ideal world, you don't want anything running at all.
You don't want A53's "handling the majority of the workload".
What you want is to wake up, do whatever work is needed as fast as possible, and go back to sleep. Period. Sleeping chips are lower power, by far, than idling chips.
If it's faster to do that work with an A57, it'll generally give you better battery life to do that.
Again, this is right now, based on perf per watt/blah blah blah.
Maybe someday, in the future, a53's will be so low power vs a57 that doing something else makes sense.
But it's not true now, AFAIK.
Instead, they make big-little because they can't really increase the speed of the higher end cores more without increasing power usage too much.
You don't want A53's "handling the majority of the workload".
Yes. You do. If I'm casually browsing non-intensive web pages, e-reading, or watching a Netflix movie, or even encoding a video, the background is doing IO rate limited system updates and basic data logging, etc, the vast majority of the time the CPU demands are very low, but frequent enough that putting a CPU to sleep is completely out of the question.
An A53 has a much lower ceiling, but a much better middle tier power usage level, than the A57. Yes, if you want to run a benchmark the A53 is not a good bet (and is generally worse in a workload power usage), but it is a very good bet for most real world usage.
Encoding a video should not be CPU, so let's get that out of there.
Most of the rest is more GPU dependent than CPU dependent. The amount of CPU time you should be spending on these tasks is really low.
For example, web browsing and reading, the CPU should be asleep most of the time.
Now, don't get me wrong, there are plenty of very silly little tasks for A53's to do, but what you listed are not those tasks.
It's more things like "syncing" or something that is a poll loop and event bound, not something that is in any way CPU bound.
Period. CPU bound stuff is not something for the A53's in this to tackle. It makes battery life worse. That is what the actual, in-the-field data says.
" a much better middle tier power usage level, than the A57"
Truthfully, for most A53 cores, this is true only in the dreams of the chip designers.
"but it is a very good bet for most real world usage."
Then what, pray tell, do you expect the A57's to be doing in this world?
And why, in practice, has big.little and other things not shown any better battery life at all if it's really a better way of doing things.
I have no doubt it may be a better way of doing things in the future, but it ain't right now ;)
The amount of CPU time you should be spending on these tasks is really low.
Which is exactly the point. They are not CPU intensive, but the CPU is constantly doing a multitude of little things, whether simply moving memory around from the GPU to storage, sending the render buffers for the 60fps display, etc. Another comment mentioned, rightly, that cores are put to sleep in they don't have anything to do in a quantum. A quantum is an enormously huge period of time, and is a macro power management technique, and is the last bastion behind idle frequency scaling, and big.little.
Truthfully, for most A53 cores, this is true only in the dreams of the chip designers.
You have zero expertise to be saying this. I mean, here's how Samsung actually does it on a big/little setup-
They favor the little cores, unless the process actually saturates the core at which point it is elevated to a big core, because the power profile for low demand tasks is far better for the small cores.
I'm going to favor the industry's interpretation of this a bit more than your anecdotal, occasional compiler-writer knowledge.
what do you expect the A57's to be doing in this world?
This is 100% false.
I do bringup on these platforms. I know a lot about them.
"I'm going to favor the industry's interpretation of this a bit more than your anecdotal, occasional compiler-writer knowledge.
"
Dude, i literally do the toolchain bringup on these platforms you claim i have no knowledge of. This is not "anecdotal occasional compiler-writer knowledge". This is "I get paid to make the stuff you keep talking about work fast and get good battery life out of it".
If what you say was true, then one would expect that when they were brought up, they would have worse performance and better battery life.
Instead, the exact opposite is true in most cases.
They have slightly better performance, and much worse battery life. Try it sometime.
Battery life is gotten back mainly through .. wait for it ... compiler optimization ... to speed up the software so things can sleep faster.
Not to "move things onto the little cores to save power", as you seem to think.
Since you want to attack my experience, remind me again, what
background do you have in this again?
(FWIW - I would stay away from this argument line as it is unlikely to serve you well)
As swetland (who was android's main kernel guy for a long time) pointed out to you, you literally have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to CPU sleeping and what the main power policies are.
BTW, much earlier i asked if you had anything other than self-serving industry press releases to back up your claims. I'm guessing the answer is "no", given what you've written.
Anyway, i'm going to stop responding now, because i'm just some anecdotal compiler writer, and clearly i can't compete with your vast knowledge store and experience on this one.
This thread should embarrass you. Christ, I'm embarrassed for you.
I linked multiple real world demonstrations (both the technical data, and actual observations of these cores in practice) of how big little is used for power consumption, including specific details of the core power profiles. You still allude to your great, clearly laughable, expertise and actually continue arguing this. Remarkable.
You are a Hacker News "Expert" and a bore. You are far, far out of your depth, and you should stop responding to topics where your knowledge is hilariously wrong.
you literally have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to CPU sleeping
He said that cores slept as much as "every 50ms". 50ms is an enormous period of time, and is a colossally granular mechanism of power reduction. They didn't discount what I said at all (in fact, talking about the millisecond scale when discussing a costly CPU activity is pretty bizarre to begin with), though it is unsurprising that you try to hang on that.
Not to mention that their comment is simply dated and wrong now regardless.
anything other than self-serving industry press releases to back up your claims.
Comical. And yet you'll wave your hand at "battery life" based upon utterly nothing. Hey guys - ARM, Samsung, Qualcomm --- disregard them, and disregard actual observations of how these SoCs operate in the field on varying demand workloads -- because this guy knows how compilers are written and he does little winky faces.
Save the world from your ignorance. The mere fact that you continually reference your great compiler writer knowledge in relation to core design is, honestly, embarrassing.
To an outsider that doesn't know much about phone architecture:
1) I can easily envision a scenario where he really is an expert but is not necessarily allowed to come out and say "I am a senior embedded systems engineer working for XYZ Mobile Devices" and has years of experience and is sitting there laughing at you. I should know because there are a couple of completely unrelated subjects that get widely discussed on the internet where I am an expert but can't just flat out state all my qualifications. I try to contribute sometimes in discussions about these subjects but often people say I have no idea what I'm talking about.
2) You seem to believe that he cannot possibly be an expert. He disagrees, and offers no absolute proof (and really, does he have to do that? Why can't we just be nice to each other).
3) I am embarrassed for you because you have seemed to be very mean and dismissive. Even if you're right, using phrases like "You are a Hacker News "Expert" and a bore" and "Save the world from your ignorance" just makes me feel that you're being rude.
"You seem to believe that he cannot possibly be an expert."
Bringing up writing a compiler in relation to SoC design is, in itself, absurd. It undermines the expert claim to begin with. Waving one's hands at "industry mumbo jumbo" (even ARM reference architectures) and alluding to your own claims of knowledge is...incredibly ignorant. It is so far below what HN aspires to be it boggles.
It is what they said that discounts the mere possibility that they have even a basic layman knowledge of the topic, much less are an expert.
"I am embarrassed for you because you have seemed to be very mean and dismissive."
Did you read what DannyBee was saying at all? In response to empirically proven, well backed statements they disagreed, did the knowing wink and patronizing pat on the back, and pretended to have more knowledge based upon a growing volume of claims (first "write compilers", then "toolchain", then "toolchain bringup", none of which have anything to do with SoC-targeted schedulers). I didn't fire the first shot in being "mean and dismissive", and considering how profoundly ignorant this whole discussion is I was being as kind as possible.
It's actually interesting: You have no idea what my qualifications are, or my interest in this topic. Nor do I expect anyone, which is exactly why I cite actual data and information, not just my wink-wink/trust me/"don't believe those SoC fatcats" knowledge.
I'm not sure how many experts in how many areas of the actual phones and phone oses we are talking about have to keep telling you you are wrong before you start believing it (so far, looking at this thread, it stands at 3), but given your demeanor, as i stated, i don't really have an interest in continuing this conversation.
The fact that your response to someone like swetland is "Not to mention that their comment is simply dated and wrong now regardless." is hilariously arrogant and amazing.
I'll just continue to find it funny that you want to cite chip manufacturers (who uh, might be slightly self-serving in selling their architectures, and produce zero actual phones except for samsung. Except, of course, that the division of samsung that produces the phones is separate and does not really talk to the chip making division. I'm sure you know this), when i am talking about the actual qualification and testing of real world phones, and not "whatever random crap they made up to put in their marketing material".
You can try to gussy that up as "actual field observations of SOC vendors" or whatever, but that just shows further ignorance in how SOC vendors actually operate.
Again, I urge you: Buy an evaluation board or two. They are cheap. Put an OS on them. Try out what you claim is true. Measure the power draw. I think you will be surprised.
I have never commented on HN before, but this thread drew me to actually create an account. It is a great example of a conversation gone awry, and people putting personalities over facts.
As someone who works on scheduling code in one of the aforementioned architectures, inversionOf is correct on all counts, at least in regards to these architectures and power to performance. They may be rude and obnoxious, but your claims through this thread have been entirely off the mark and do not serve the community well.
Workloads are monitored for intensity. If they fall low enough they are migrated to the little core because it offers a much better total performance per unit of work. The frequency of the cores (whether big or little) are adjusted to fit the workload. If the workload is really low, we put the core to sleep. Sleep is, exactly as stated, the last possible, coarsest measure.
Sleep is not a replacement for frequency scaling. Frequency scaling achieves a half measure of what core migration achieves.
You don't have to believe my credentials, but you claim that "3 experts" have supported your stance. That simply isn't true. No one who works on scheduling algorithms for these platforms would support your claims.
CPUs enter and exit sleep on Android devices constantly. Back in 2007 on the MSM7201A we'd go to power-down sleep for any idle times of >50mS (nothing to schedule for the next 50mS). Run fast and go to sleep has always been the primary power policy.
That said there's plenty of lightweight threads and processes that are mostly IO or event bound, do very little compute, and will run in roughly the same time on a small core as a large core, but the small cores have a lower static power footprint (base cost to have them powered up at all), so big.little works out well there.
Run fast and go to sleep has always been the primary power policy.
A sleeping core is obviously the most efficient core, however you have said nothing to discount what I said. Putting a core to sleep is a very costly activity, which is exactly why it happens at the millisecond scale.
Before that happens, the core will likely have been frequency scaled to more appropriately fit the window's loading. I mean, we know this is the case right now, and that "run fast and go to sleep" is not the primary policy. It's "run as fast as appropriate for the workload to fill a quantum, and sleep when there is no workload". There are many if not most workloads that are externally bound, or event triggered enough that sleep is completely out of the question and running faster does nothing.
Your words have been used (out of context and inappropriately) to bolster DannyBee when they represent, literally, all that is wrong with Hacker News.
I love wireless charging, but my Nexus 6 has such horrible battery life, and charges so much faster wired, that I end up using a cable a few times a day. Especially in my car. I can pretty much only get away with using a Qi charger at bedtime. So to me the USB C is a big win.
Yeah, I suspect that was a big part of their thought here -- USB-C charging is very fast, and whatever marginal convenience win you get from wireless charging would almost certainly be overshadowed by the speed of wired charging.
I'm not ready to consider the wireless charging just a marginal convenience. Once I started using it I could not tolerate not having it. The only place I use the cable is in the car, where I'm not supposed to be holding the phone anyway.
Occasionally, my Nexus 5 is dead in the morning because the phone was not perfectly placed on the wireless charger. Until Google expands the charging area on the phone to eliminate this problem, I don't mind going back to wired charging.
Are there better ones out there that don't have as much of an issue with placement? My blind assumption was the problem lies with the phone's limited charging area, not the charger (which I presumed was nearly the whole surface).
Interestingly my problems with it are exactly three things that aren't addressed in the new models:
1. The wireless charging, while seemingly a small thing, was to me a huge improvement in my experience of using the phone. The fact that I can sit down at my desk, plop the phone down, and it'll just work, and when I get up to leave I can just pull it off my desk. Removing the USB cable interaction made the phone a much more invisible and organic part of my day. Might not be important to others, but I would very much miss it.
2. Lack of removable storage. Small deal but it was a nice quality of life feature.
3. Battery that's hard to replace. My phone upgrade cycle is very long, usually longer than the lifetime of the battery. I'm feeling it in my Nexus 5 right now.
But the main thing that might prompt me to upgrade is just software performance creep. The latest software updates have really turned my phone into a slideshow, and that's getting really frustrating.
But the spec improvements are certainly both appreciated and necessary.
I really like the wireless charging on my Nexus 5 as well. Going back to the cable would be fine with me but I would prefer something that takes a little less effort to insert and I'm always concerned about breaking the connector. I just found a really interesting MagSafe-like connector for the classic micro USB [1], maybe they will make something soon for the new USB3 that the 5X uses.
And before some of you say that MagSafe has patents on this, remember that the magnetic catch for a power cord was used on deep fat fryers YEARS before MagSafe [2].
Apple DOES have patents on this. Yes, it was already patented for deep fryers, but Apple got the patent approved for electronics, and no one has yet to challenge them on it.
> 2. Lack of removable storage. Small deal but it was a nice quality of life feature.
Nexus phones never had an SD card unless you count the Nexus One. The Nexus One really needed it though, since it only had 512MB of storage. Every phone since has had enough it isn't a huge deal.
I upgraded from a Galaxy S3 that suddenly died, so I was a bit peeved when I suddenly couldn't just move my SD card over. You're right though, in reality it's not a big deal, but it would've been nice to be able to just slot an extra 32gb into the side. It's not absolutely necessary, but since I upgrade on a long cycle, the extra storage lets me extend my phone's obsolescence cycle a bit more.
It would also mean less money for Google—or any smartphone maker, for that matter. There’s no incentive for them to offer a feature that would only exist to divert cash flow to other sources and, even if they did jump into the removable storage industry, preclude them from charging a premium for extra storage. Only offering internal storage also encourages “preparing for the worst”, i.e., getting more storage than you will most likely need.
Aside from the wireless charging which comes as a surprise since the last few generations all had it, I feel like your points don't constitute much of a disappointment for the 5X. #2 and #3 haven't been a part of the Nexus line since at least the N4, so you're in the realm of wishful thinking. I agree having everything you said would be nice, but it's hardly a surprise.
I'm comparing the 5X and 6P, also my Nexus 5, to other Android phones on the market, not just to previous Nexus phones. My previous phone, the Galaxy S3, had both #2 and #3, so I definitely don't consider the features wishful thinking.
As with all puchasing decisions, there are tradeoffs, but I definitely don't think it's wishful thinking to want some hardware features common in competitors' phones. Surprising? No, I'm not surprised, but that doesn't stop me from wanting certain features that I liked in other phones I had.
>Plus the fingerprint thing is probably a bigger deal than you think
Am I the only person on the planet who doesn't want a fingerprint reader on my phone? I don't want to secure anything of importance with my fingerprint - fingerprints are usernames, not passwords. This just feels like the equivalent of writing your password on a Post-It and sticking it to your monitor.
I thought I wouldn't care for it on the iPhone, but it's honestly a nice convenience. It's not for security, it's for simple auth (like when unlocking the phone or authorizing a payment on the app store).
Unlocking your phone is done so frequently that many people opt not to secure it. The best security is one that you use. It's arguably more secure than a 4 number passcode, which someone can easily watch you enter over your shoulder.
Buying things on the App Store requires you to type in a password for the first purchase every so often. Then you use your finger print.
I don't have a passcode on my phone to protect it from my friends ... similarly I don't have a lock on my front door (that I give spare keys to friends for) to protect me from my friends.
I guess that I think once you share it a few times and it's used regularly, then it becomes fairly public knowledge. Maybe this is a mis step from password security.
Passwords can always be changed to "reset the access list" if you will, if you're uncomfortable with how widely spread knowledge of the password has become. Biometrics, on the other hand ...
Nobody's going to bother to recreate your fingerprint, when it's much easier to beat you with a wrench ( https://xkcd.com/538/ ) until they get access to your phone. It's a huge convenience for you though, to unlock it without doing anything extra, as you're pressing that button anyway to turn the screen on. Much easier than typing passwords.
My worry is that this is a gateway drug to "Fingerprint protect all the things!"
My bank emailed me the other day with an announcement that I could access my account through their app via my fingerprint. WTF? My text messages are one thing by now my money is protected by just my fingerprint? I took my bank to task because they allowed my username to be twice as long as the allowed characters in my password. Someone at the bank said, "Hey, all these new-fangled phones have fingerprint readers, why don't we tap into that and sell it as a feature?" When everyone is doing it, no one is going to stop and ask if they should, it's just a race to incorporate the newest features. Normal people aren't asking if this is secure, they are buying into the marketing copy pushed on them, so they start thinking that it has to be secure, because why would my bank not have my interests in mind?
What can the bank app do? Mine can only deposit and view accounts, not withdraw or transfer. Open access to it would be weird, but not much worse than someone fishing my ATM receipts out of the trash to see my balance.
It's Bank of America, so it's about as feature-filled as a banking app gets. You can do all the normal stuff like check balances and deposit checks, but you can also open new accounts (including credit cards) and transfer money (between other accounts you own or to other people outside the bank). And yes, the app has the ability to add new transfer recipients, which only needs their email address or phone number. There is a protection to guard against unauthorized adding of new recipients, but you guessed it, the protection is in the form of a 2FA code sent via SMS. So if you're already in the phone and in the banking app you can add yourself as a transfer recipient with your email address and verify the recipient addition because you can read the incoming text messages too. And the warning email that comes when you add a new recipient and initiate a new transfer is likely going to come to the same phone you're currently holding. If you get into my banking app through my phone you can send yourself as much of my money as you want and cover your tracks so I wouldn't know until my next statement comes, and to top it all off, it looks like I was the one who sent the money to you, so how am I going to argue that I didn't?
The bottomline is that if someone can hack a server to steal your fingerprint, they can just as easily use the same method to steal your method so I don't really see the differen imho.
The bottomline is that someone doesn't need to hack a server to steal your fingerprint, you leave those everywhere you go as virtual gifts to any passers-by. All they need to do is steal your phone, and that's pick-pocketing level easy.
Do the Nexus 5X or 6P finally have hardware encryption support ?
I didn't notice any mention of those, specially because they failed miserably last year parading full disk encryption on Nexus 6 and got bitten when reviews showed the performance degradation and lack of hardware encryption.
It's a good question, I've looked and the Qualcomm Snapdragon 810 has the support needed, but I don't know if it'll be enabled by default or not in Android 6.
If it's not, then Google are starting to take the piss..
Many countries now take fingerprint scans when you cross the border. Even if they themselves never use it, its easily conceivable that they could be hacked or leaked. Then what? You can't revoke your fingerprint.
Who will bother to recreate the fingerprint, most of us aren't that important? (I'm not) :) Don't get me wrong, I do understand the main problem is that you can't change this "token" and it's something that the people have easy access to. It shouldn't be used to keep data that has a higher value than the effort required.
The real risk is that if it reaches a certain level of ubiquity (which it appears it is), authorities will invest in a) laws and b) technology to break it with almost trivial ease. The US already has my fingerprints on file from crossing the border. Presumably it means that if they wish they could trivially unlock my phone and search its contents. I fully expect that if fingerprint access does become the universal security mechanism used on computing devices we'll soon enough have fully automated solutions where law enforcement can either download your fingerprint from their existing database or scan it from any available surface in real time and apply an image to the sensor to fool it into unlocking. Obviously this will take a while to happen, so for now people are lulled into a rather false sense of security that their fingerprints are a "pretty good" way to secure their phone when they are only "pretty good" because technology will take a few years to automate the breaking of them, at which point they will become "very bad".
Why bother breaking into a phone manually when you already have access to all the data it sends, receives, and contains (especially now that cloud storage solutions are all the rage)? What do passcodes and fingerprint scanners even mean when the target data is already being made accessible to national governments through more convenient channels?
In my mind, the only reasons tech giants continue to force centralization on their users are PRISM and data mining. Today’s devices have sizable internal drives, so all personal data could realistically be stored and processed locally; and secure, distributed systems have been proven to work for data transfer (BitTorrent), monetary transactions (Bitcoin), message boards (Aether—sort of), and more. Hopefully solutions like Copperhead OS and Blackphone that secure our mobile devices and communication channels, respectively, make it to the mainstream.
Not exactly, that's what bcrypt and scrypt are for. Attackers would have to modify the running code to divert raw passwords elsewhere, which would be a lot more noticeable.
No, that's not the bottom line. One fingerprint opens everything and cannot be changed. You can use a different password for each site so when some craptastic one gets compromised, you're not screwed for life.
"Nobody's going to bother to recreate your fingerprint, when it's much easier to beat you with a wrench ( https://xkcd.com/538/ ) until they get access to your phone."
I think this misses the point. Accessing a device using a "cloned finger" (not tremendously difficult) can be done without the target ever knowing it has happened.
Yes, but is it worth spending the required resources? If the answer is yes, than anyway the 4 digit pin isn't more secure (you can watch people type them and find out the code).
You can change your code. The fingerprint is a bit more difficult. That's my main issue with biometric security, revocation of compromised credentials (e.g. fingerprints) is difficult or impossible.
Not only that. With fingerprints, you are essentially using the same password everywhere. You just need to lose it once and all your accounts would be compromised.
> Yes, but is it worth spending the required resources?
When it becomes easy - and it will become easy, there's nothing basically hard about printing out some ridged plastic - it will become commonplace. And unlike stolen passwords, an attacker can be fairly sure that you haven't changed your fingers.
(I'm not a lawyer, I've just read a bunch of blogposts/discussions on the issue)
There's a legal difference in some places between having your phone secured by a fingerprint and a password. If your phone is secured by a password, then in some places you cannot be obliged to provide the password, but a fingerprint you can.
There was a bunch of reporting in the past few days that a Federal District Court in Pennsylvania found that Fifth Amendment rights apply to smartphone passcodes.
I wonder if its possible to counter this through obscurity. Since the sensor is on the back of the phone, you can use your ring finger to unlock it instead. If >3 attempts with any other fingers are made, then the phone will be locked with a password. That way, you still keep your right to protection.
The other thing about the US is that occasionally you'll find a police department that's willing to bend the law. They can make you touch the fingerprint sensor and then claim that they never did and they found your phone unlocked, and it'll be your word against theirs. If the court believes the police, which they are culturally inclined to do, the Fifth Amendment question doesn't even come up.
One of the neat things about encryption, historically, is that the government couldn't force decryption even if it were willing to break the law in doing so. That's why there were export controls and demands for backdoors in the '90s, and that's why there are demands for backdoors today. Fingerprint locks may mathematically involve encryption, but they don't have this property.
2. Attacker knows you might be smart enough to use a plausible deniability file system.
3. Attacker starts beating you with the wrench.
At this point, there are several possibilities that could happen:
1. You give up the secret and give the attacker what he wants. The beating continues after this point, because the attacker really has no idea if you've given up the right secret.
2. You give up a fake secret and give the attacker what he thinks he wants. The beatings continue. See possibility #1.
3. You don't give up the secret and he continues beating you with the wrench anyway to try to get you to reveal the secret.
4. You're not using a plausible deniability encryption at all, and it truly is random data, and he continues to beat you with the wrench to make sure.
As you can see, the wrench doesn't give two shits about your plausible deniability.
The world is rife with wrenches and people willing to use them. PD is only good against people who don't have legal leverage against you, and those not willing to break the law to get it.
…unless drives were encrypted by default, in which case the wrench would have no method to distinguish the two! Any reasonable wrench would not pursue such a doubtful case anyway. And regardless, the goal is not to avoid being beaten by the wrench, but to sustainably deny the existence of the secret. There is no incentive to ever give up the actual secret when the wrench cannot tell the difference and must continue beating (which would only happen at high levels of worth or likelihood); I might as well have continued lying.
I think the OPM data breach recently put about 10 million fingerprints and a ton of associated personally identifying information into the hands of people who have clear motivation to hack the cell phones of many of the people impacted.
Two, and one critical. The Nexus 5 was absolutely the biggest phone I would consider, and even that was really too big. Making one phone a dinner plate and one phone a centimeter-larger dinner plate is atrocious.
Apparently only Sony wants my money (and honestly the Z Compact series is still too big).
I used to be the same guy complaining about all of the phones being too small. I like the big phones of today, but I understand the complaints some people have.
I know that. Actually it was the basketball players and other pro athletes that I always thought looked so ridiculous using iPhones before the 6. That being said, my wife is quite small and she had a Note2 and now a Note4 and she loves them that size because it keeps her from needing a computer for most of her stuff.
I'm still using a nexus 4 for this reason, and it's showing it's age.
Kind of a letdown the 5X is so large. It is annoying that all phones coming out are trying to outdo each other on the same form factor that's both too large to fit in a pocket and too thin to have a useful battery.
I'm on the same N4 boat. I can't help but suspect that this push for bigger Android phones is part of a plan to make people use phones as tablets and consume much more web content (thus, revenue for Google). I like my phone to be small and convenient for mobility, not for browsing in my couch :|
It drives me nuts as well that the two key features I think of when I think of a phone -- long battery life and HAND HELD (singular) -- seem to be incompatible with anything like stock android. The original Moto X was pretty close, but it just feels like we're going backwards now. I do not understand what market pressure is causing this.
I honestly wouldn't have minded if they kept the same form-factor and aesthetic with the original N5 (the one I use and love right now), and just did an internal overhaul...similar to how Apple does minor cosmetic changes, but a whole world of upgrades internally.
Agree with you. Another thing I would stress on is the price constraint. Don't forget that Nexus 5 was said to be a high-end phone but 200$ cheaper.
Given a price to stick to, it is very difficult to improve the specs substantially to wow the existing customers. Look at Oneplus one- the flagship killer and its successor- two not considered to be killer at all. I don't think existing customers would want to upgrade to the newer version.
Speaking as someone who does not own a Nexus 5, I would say I am very impressed by the specs and am waiting to purchase it. There aren't many phones better than this (keeping in mind the price).
A lot of Nexus 5 owners have pointed that the newer one does not have wireless charging and OIS. I feel that improving the overall experience matters more. Even though both are nice-to-have features it still does not help the crappy battery and low-quality camera that much. The 5x solves the existential funks first by adding those improvements. And due to the price limitation the nice-to-have features had to be dropped.
Look at it another way, you bought a great phone two years ago that you now get to enjoy for another year! I'd be thankful not for not feeling compelled to shell out ~$400 for a new phone. The only downside is reduced Li-ion capacity, of course.
My big thing over the Nexus 5 is all the carriers are covered. I am a grandfathered unlimited data verizon customer. I am still using my Galaxy Nexus. The Nexus 6 was just too expensive for me since I am paying out of pocket to keep the unlimited data.
The problem is smartphones are stagnating. Let's see:
* CPU: Processor evolution is stagnating, and processors are so powerful that they can handle most typical workloads with ease. Efficiency is now the order of the day, not raw power.
* Screen: Densities are so high it that not only does it become difficult to manufacture higher density panels, but it actually hurts the device by draining more energy and killing performance and battery life to display pixels you aren't going to see.
* RAM: 2Gb, the standard in mid-range phones and up, is sufficient for moderate use. 3Gb is comfy and 4Gb is gigantic. Again no substantial improvements in the horizon.
* Storage: The more storage the better, but phones seem to have stabilized in the 16/32/64/128Gb, and anyway with cloud storage this is less and less of a concern.
* Battery: A major pain in modern devices, with no imminent breakthrough in sight.
* Camera: Incremental upgrades are looking promising, but there's only so much you can do with optics in a small form factor.
In short, no major improvements or evolutions in the smartphone field are in the horizon, but they aren't really necessary for the short-term anyway.
Stagnating or just the market approaching maturity?
I personally don't miss the old PC days of having to upgrade my GPU every 12 months. Although I'm sure there are still some people that do, hopefully this means that most of us can keep our older phones without a significant performance deficit
So they'll finally build affordable phones that have all the interesting features and not faster ones with a random subset of them? Sounds like good news, but somehow I doubt it...
All the above are requirements, yes (CPU, Screen, RAM, Storage, Battery, Camera). I'd add one more requirement: manufacturers should be required to supply as a part of an extended warranty the latest release of Android. No more orphaning year-old phones.
Once that's squared away, then I imagine manufacturers could compete on features -- things that customers want. Here are some examples:
* Battery life. User-serviceable battery.
* Removable storage
* Wireless charging
* Multiple SIM slots (popular in Japan)
* FM Radio (popular in Japan)
As you can imagine, a phone with all the above would be pretty large, but it turns out customers like a large phone. Sadly, no such phone exists today.
> In short, no major improvements or evolutions in the smartphone.
Try the 3D touch on the iPhone.
Adding what is the equivalent of contextual menus to the UI is a major improvement to the overall experience and I know I will be upgrading to the 6s purely because of this.
It's called long-press, a touch-screen UI pattern that has been around since at least Pocket PC, carried through on Android, and is only now appearing on iOS. Just like with right click, Apple is late to the contextual menu party.
be glad your two year phone still feels like current gen. keep your money. don't throw away a product that is full of heavy metals (yeah you won't throw away, but sell. but the person buying will throw his old one away. so it's the same)
but no, let's instead complain i can't consume blindly and constantly. sigh.
Why are you mad at a person who has rationally evaluated whether or not to upgrade an important productivity enhancing device (and who had decided not to upgrade) rather than the millions of uninformed people who just upgrade to have the newest and shiniest model?
I own a Nexus 5, and I just preordered a 5X 32GB. I'll tell you why.
Wireless charging is something I use with my 5, but it is slow compared to USB. Compared to type C, is will be incredibly slow. There just won't be a need to charge the phone overnight like the wireless charger did.
The battery life is better.
The resolution is the same. This is a plus for me. I don't need higher resolution on such a small screen. It is already incredible for even the tiniest of fonts. Higher resolution = higher power use, higher CPU/GPU use, and more memory use. It would be fine, but I don't need it.
I will use the fingerprint reader. I'm excited to see Android Pay take off. I hate getting my credit card stolen, and I don't like typing in a code every time I use GoogleWallet or whatever I used to use.
The camera is a big deal. I'm excited for slow mo capable capture. I have a small child, and he is a ham.
I also am looking forward to the speed increase. More cores = more potential concurrency = smoother interfaces.
The primary reason I bought it was because it is financed (0%) over 24 months when you sign up for Project Fi. I get the $50 play credit, get to switch to Project Fi, and I get the phone in 2-3 weeks.
The total cell phone bill w/ 1GB of data and the phone included is less than the $50 TMo wanted for their cheapest plan directly.
Note: I would have gotten the 6P, except it was 4-5 weeks instead of 2-3, and I need it here soon as my cell phone plan is expiring.
Isn't it taller, but less wide, and thinner? There total surface area is probably bigger (height increased about 1cm whereas width decreased about 3mm), but I think it will feel smaller in your hand. When holding a phone, it's generally the width & thickness that makes it feel big. Both of those dimensions decreased.
If you're talking about thumb-stretching to reach the top of the screen, though, that might get a bit more difficult.
From what I see, the new one is 72.6 mm wide, and the old one is 69.2 mm. I.e. it's wider (which can make it annoying, if you can't comfortably hold it in your palm or in your front pocket).
My biggest gripe with Nexus series has been the camera. None of the releases has made a quantum leap in terms of picture quality. I don't care about gimmickries like HDR, live photos, sphere etc., all I want is a $300 Point & Shoot quality. Something that won't make me feel guilty for using a camera phone for preserving spontaneous memories. Please Google :)
Samsung has done a great job with the S6, the others like G4 & Moto aren't far behind.
I've heard nothing but compliments about the photos from my Nexus 5 camera. They're very high resolution and look great. I'll post some from Imgur if you want. What problems are you having with yours?
You kidding right? Maybe your have the art of taking photos with that phone down or something but pictures I take with it always seems to washed out compared to my Moto X(another bad one)
To be honest, to me it looks a bit noisy, washed out colors, and it must not have been taken in bright lighting because you can see some camera shake. There's also a lot of smudging in the carpet and wall textures, which makes me think that either there originally was a lot of noise before post-processing, or the noise removal software on the phone isn't very good.
I'll take that as a compliment. The photo was taken one-handed while standing in the "elevator lobby" of the floor, so it was facing the bright light instead of having the lighting behind the target. The image might be inferior to a DSLR on a tripod, but for simple functionality I think this device is highly suitable. And it fits in most pockets.
HDR isn't a gimmick, it dramatically improves the picture quality. You get the effect of a super-long exposure on noise level and dynamic range, but with image stabilization, and a compromise on the moving objects in the scene.
HDR is a gimmick in the sense that it just takes information from the sensor to bring out highlights. This is the sort of thing that can be done in post-processing on any RAW image. Its not a feature of the camera itself.
Android and iOS HDR systems take multiple pictures very rapidly at different exposures and knit them together. You can't manually take the same “input” pictures as rapidly as an HDR system.
I'm not sure what your definition of a "trick" is. The quality of the results varies greatly depending on the algorithm used, which is maybe why you don't have a good impression of it. This one aligns the exposures and detects motion which is not something you can easily do by hand. In practice, I find my nexus 5 with HDR+ often takes superior pictures to my consumer grade DLSR, so much so that it's hard to justify taking the DSLR on trips anymore.
For instance, compare these two pictures taken at the same spot with a nexus 5 and Canon EOS Rebel T2i. https://goo.gl/photos/8ZrXoEC283oJ3NmC9 The nexus 5 one is just way better. The conventional camera struggles to keep even the foreground and midground properly exposed. The nexus 5 gets everything from the foreground to the sky, exactly as I saw it.
DXOMark is the gold standard of photo-quality evaluations. Their evaluations for mobile phones show the Nexus 6 to have been very good for when it was released (it's #12 now, but most of the phones above it are newer); the Nexus 6P is ranked #2 right now: http://www.dxomark.com/Mobiles
DXOMark is all about shooting specific test targets under controlled lighting conditions and automated algorithmic analysis of the results. Basically they're trying to scientifically measuring the maximum potential of a given sensor under ideal conditions. They don't produce any interesting images to look at.
Sites like connect.dpreview.com on the other hand are all about the actual photography and cover things like handling, UI and real life performance and results
Fitting a $300 point and shoot (canon s130?) into a tiny space for $20 BOM would be amazing engineering. Bigger sensor, bigger, less rugged lens, ability to move elements. It is a testament to amazing software that camera phones are as good as they are.
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[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 458 ms ] threadSource on that?
It'd be very interesting to see how much music people store on their phone when they use services like Spotify. I use it on a Nexus 4 and I've never had a problem with running out of space, but I don't have lots of games or anything on there. I honestly doubt it's much more than 2 or 3GB.
I don't like fragile cloud solutions, so my music is offline. I find it amazingly stupid to tell other people to "just delete some of it, because you probably won't listen to it twice". My offline car navigation takes more than 10 GB, and no thank you, I won't use google maps which are not that accurate in places I go, and require constant connectivity (which makes them useless in foreign countries, or in mountains). My DCIM folder is cca 5 GB after 1 year of usage, and I shoot almost no videos which would make it explode.
FFS, it's almost end of 2015, having 32 GB model as your highest offering is... pathetic.
It seems reasonable that their phones are expected to mostly behave as phones, and not as a large photo/video repository.
Not really. Do you ever travel? Have you ever been on a road trip? Have you ever been on a plane? Have you ever gone camping?
The issue comes up if you use your phone solely as a camera without an accompanying connection for long enough to fill up internal storage without some way to offload it.
It's a situation that won't come up ever for most users of the phone, and as Wifi and Data coverage increases will become even more obscure.
It's especially a problem while cruising - onboard WiFi is slow and expensive, buying a sim per country wastes time.
For anything except Video content (or the need for several months of offline music) 32GB is plenty.
Data abroad is dirt cheap compared to North America. $1.40 for 150mb when I lived in Vietnam. $30 for 3GB in Mexico. Much faster than Canada too.
I don't see any value for me in spotify, for example. In circles around me, spotify & co penetration is well below 50%, albeit most know about it.
And 32GB is plenty except for X Y and Z (where Y is large app collections of games [Hearthstone alone is like 1.5GB on mobile] and Z is music collections where you don't want to spend $50 a month in data fees for things you have on your home hard drive) which precludes anyone using those from buying these devices.
All the cell companies are in a ruckus about how nobody bought 2015 flagships, but when the best storage you can get is 128GB on an S6 without a removable battery or SD slot for an insane like $200 premium over the minimum model you might want to stop price gouging as much if you want customers.
The thing will likely overheat or run out of battery before 60 minutes of 4K video, but still the point stands, something that is featuring 4K video but then limits you to only 32 GB of storage is kind of contradictory.
I feel like this device is saying: "We support 4K video* (*but don't actually try to use it)."
PS - My point about overheat/battery is based on previous phones which claimed they supported 4K video. If you tried to use it the camera would switch off after a few minutes due to overheating, and the battery consumption would go through the roof.
Where can I see this confirmed? Any references you can point me to? Thanks for you help :)
http://www.cnet.com/news/googles-new-nexus-phones-to-work-on...
It's a cracking little phone and does everything I'd want.
https://www.qualcomm.com/news/releases/2015/07/28/qualcomm-b...
I think until they solve the range, alignment, and random hotplate issues that Qi is not ready for prime time. If they suddenly solve all of those issues I'll be gluing Qi chargers underneath every surface I own.
I guess my objection is that the effort necessary to align the device on a pad. It requires as much effort aligning as plugging it into a micro USB connector albeit it's only a 1 handed operation.
The Google Store doesn't do a great job of indicating which kind of customer would prefer one of them over the other, surprisingly.
I don't want to whine but if the guys are reading can you please swap out to https if possible? https://www.google.com/nexus/
I'd definitely have preferred OIS, but I'm not convinced that it's a dealbreaker just yet.
http://www.dxomark.com/Mobiles
Nexus 5X: 147.0 x 72.6 x 7.9 mm ( Front face 10,672.2 sq mm)
The front face will be larger. The only way it is smaller is the reduction in thickness.
[EDIT] My mistake, thought you were talking about the Nexus 5
I cannot believe there is not a (huge) market for small, portable phones that you could put in your pocket without altering the way you sit.
There isn't a huge market for small portable phones because most people shelling out $500+ for a smart phone want to actually use it as a smart phone. They play games, watch shows and movies, read full novels, and browse the web. These are all experiences that are enhanced by having a larger screen. My wife upgraded to the iPhone 6s from her old phone (5s maybe?) and one of the first things she said about it was that the screen was small, despite it being considerably larger than her old phone.
I cannot understand how the "I want a small phone" crowd don't realize that they are in the minority.
Or, don't use the phone that much but like access to a decent browser and apps when we do need them.
I have a 4, but actually miss my ancient G2 with an actual keyboard. Damn you kids and your touch screens, you ruined everything!
I totally understand why some people want a small phone. But the "I mostly make calls and only occasionally need a browser/apps" is becoming a very niche market.
Those are the phones I need to decide between. Current 6 only b/c it should get cheap and the Snapdragon 820 comes out next year, but I'm not sure I can wait a year with my aging Moto X 2013.
I just have no desire to ever switch into the Apple ecosystem, and I've significantly bought into Google's
It'll have Marshmallow, so if it's cheap enough.. it's worth getting it and waiting for the 820 and hopefully new top of the line phones from Motorola and Google next year making use of them.
Personally, i don't care about the "top of the line issue" in this case. As it stands, i absolutely love my N5. It is every bit the phone i want, and need. Price point is, of course, a huge part of it. Is it a $700 phone? Probably not. But my value of it is far higher than retail price ($250).
So i guess what i'm saying is, because i love my N5 so much, i don't "need" better. The N5X just feels like the same (but a bit better) phone, and since my N5 is still operating great, i have no need for it. On the flipside, the N6P is a bit too spendy for it's (personal) value. The Amazon price of the N6 on the otherhand, definitely raises the value bar, for me.
Quality with lower price points (N5 land) just makes me a really happy customer, totally willing to spend the coin.
pros:
cons: My previous phone was a Nexus 5, which the software experience was generally better on since I got updates on a timely basis. However, the hardware experience was pretty poor (made by LG) and I went through two replacements due to GPS issues.The Motorola software is indeed annoying, I wish it updated Android editions a bit faster, and specifically the lock screen doesn't interface that well with Android stuff.
I currently have no clue what's next. The Style (Pure) would be the spiritual successor to the 2014, but the Play has a much larger battery and can be purchased with dual-SIM in some EU countries. I was also looking at the Nexus, but I am a bit underwhelmed by the 5X (the 6P is too big for me). I guess I'll look how Motorola is with updates the coming months and then go with the Play.
Hexa-core is neat, but honestly I'd rather have software polish that meant rotating my phone while using the camera in video mode didn't mean some probability of a system reboot. Unfortunately my experience with both the Nexus 4 and 5 is that the stability is either never quite there or actually decreases dramatically as OS updates come out and Google's focus shifts.
I've experienced what you are talking about, every time I get an OTA for the Nexus 5; the performance seems to degrade dramatically.
We're looking at spending $400 every 2 years to stay every other gen Nexus? That isn't horrible (55 cents a day or so). But if we pay for services to avoid storage on the phone, the cost rises.
Nothing about the CPU/Etc makes me think it's time for an upgrade.
I host my own Subsonic media server which means that I can just set a cache size in Android (5GB right now) and let it automatically download my media as I consume it and push old stuff out of the cache.
Combined with Dropbox camera uploads I generally don't use much more than 10GB of storage on my phone.
I don't understand how they could get such an important feature so wrong.
I don't really care about Android either, it's just a cheesy delivery platform for Google services which I don't want. But none of the alternatives seem much better either... Still, I started looking at Apple.
I was holding out hope that I would finally have a reason to buy a Nexus phone with the 5X or 6P, but now that we have the final spec sheet, I think I'm going to just grab an HTC One M9 or something. The lack of expandable storage really kills it for me.
[0]http://www.android.gs/android-m-feature-spotlight-sd-cards-c...
Also, Google is offering 128GB, which is pretty decent. And their pricing is much less than Samsung's for 64gb vs 32gb.
When has an SD card failed before every other part of the phone, including USB port and screen?
[1] http://anandtech.com/show/9662/iphone-6s-and-iphone-6s-plus-...
I think Google has decided to ditch SD cards to encourage users to keep more of their data on Google's servers.
Do you think apple never supported SD cards because they wanted more people to put stuff in icloud?
Uhh... of course? Both companies charge extra for more space — Apple past 5GB and Google past 15GB. They make money by forcing you to upgrade your online storage.
And I guarantee you Samsungs SSD options are faster than their phone flash, because they go for performance way more on desktop parts.
Itty bitty little tiny chips? Your desktop 512GB 850 EVO isn't going to fit into the space a smartphone has for storage.
This line of reasoning makes absolutely no sense. How could having the option to use an SD card with your device make for a shittier UX. The use of an SD expansion slot is completely optional, if you don't have the desire to use an SD card it has absolutely no bearing on the UX, and if you do, no matter how shitty the UX, it will always be preferable to the absence of removable media capabilities altogether.
There are opportunity costs for everything, but microsd readers are a cheap, mature, commodity technology that's been in top-end phones for ages, its impact on the phone's available real-estate for battery and memory is nearly negligible.
Internal storage is faster and more reliable so I think you're always going to see more and more phones, especially flagships, not offer expandable options.
If they want me to ever buy an SD card-less phone, they better start shipping 256GB options at the real cost of the flash memory involved (ie, $40 more expensive over a 64GB option, not $100 or more).
When you are shipping phones with cameras nearing 20+ MP where you would fill up the paltry internal storage (what, like 10GB after OS on the 16GB models?) in a thousand photos at PNG compression (ie, about 10MB a shot) you are doing it wrong, especially when SSD manufacturers are about to start shipping 4TB options in m.2 form factors (ie, the size of a small candy bar).
Still, SD cards are still fine for storing large amounts of photos, videos, and music. And as a proud father of a 1.5 year old, I like to stash a lot of photos/videos on my phone.
their user experience has always been terrible.
The other obvious reason is that phone manufacturers like to overcharge on extra storage.
I think you're always going to see more and more phones, especially flagships, not offer expandable options.
Not everyone is moving in that direction. E.g. the new Moto Xs support SD cards, while the previous generations didn't.
But that's just an easy software fix away. There is nothing inherent to SD cards (or removable storage in general) that makes it a tough UI case. It's pretty simple, actually,
See, you're thinking in terms of UI but I'm talking about user experience (which isn't just UI). It sounds like they essentially fixed the UI type of issues in Android M but SD cards are still slower, once you install it you really don't want to ever remove it or if you do god knows what happens now that the storage is unified and good luck explaining how to use and install one to a non-tech savvy person. After working years in retail I don't believe the majority of customers for digital cameras understood cards let alone _optional_ cards in phones.
But android phones don't currently have the ability to behave as a simple USB drive when you plug them into the computer.
So if you're even a little bit discerning, and you refuse to install silly helper apps and photo-importers and android-buddy programs on your computers, you need some other (sane) way to move files on and off the phone - and that is the SD card.
They're just files. You don't need a little helper app or to open up iPhoto and "import" or any of this silliness. You just need a dumb block device that you can move back and forth.
* The removal of SD cards from mainstream phones
* The use of ext4 as a main filesystem on a lot of phones.
The removal of SD cards meant that you could no longer "unmount" part of the phone filesystem to present it as a mass storage device. The use of ext4 meant that many OSes had no idea how to mount the storage, even if you presented it as a block device.
I'm not sure anyone will read this, but I think you could implement a FAT emulation layer over USB Gadget, at least enough to get car head-decks to play MP3s off the phone. If anyone wants to take a crack at this, please get in touch with me.
Also, Motorola and LG both have flagships with expandable storage. Everyone runs out of 32GB, and having an SD card handy to make more on-device storage available can only improve the user experience.
Samsung sold a lot more phones when they used to have sd cards.
64GB Nexus 6P: $549
64GB iPhone 6S+: $849
So, you really shouldn't expect the Nexus 6P to be using the top-tier internal storage solutions Samsung rolls out as used in the iPhone and Samsung phones. Yes, a lot of that $300 price difference is for the Apple name, especially when you factor in the lower resolution 6S+ 1080p screen. But quite a bit of it is used for the polishing bits that make the phone faster... like much faster storage.
As a data point, the high-end Sandisk 64GB microSD cards are about $50 and are around 3x faster than the internal storage in my Nexus 6. They're hitting 95 MB/s read, 90 MB/s write now.
While a microSD won't top out at the 200 MB/s you get from last year's top-tier storage available in the Samsung S6 and iPhone 6 (not to mention the twice as fast Samsung storage in the new iPhone 6s and upcoming Samsung phone), they'll perform better than the internal storage in most mid-tier phones and all low-tier phones, which is all most folks need for photos and videos.
Even the Moto G has that read speed. More expensive phones are much faster...
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9525/the-moto-g-2015-review/3
Also, I wonder what SD read/write speeds are in practice.
Note that everything tested is below the 90 MB/s sequential write speed of a high-end microSD except the iPhone 6s Plus.
From a review, here's the numbers on the 64Gb Sandisk Extreme Pro microSD using CrystalDiskMark:
Sequential Read : 95.325 MB/s
Sequential Write : 90.660 MB/s
Random Read 512KB : 89.314 MB/s
Random Write 512KB : 75.971 MB/s
Random Read 4KB (QD=1) : 7.492 MB/s [ 1829.0 IOPS]
Random Write 4KB (QD=1) : 2.441 MB/s [ 595.9 IOPS]
Random Read 4KB (QD=32) : 7.472 MB/s [ 1824.3 IOPS]
Random Write 4KB (QD=32) : 2.380 MB/s [ 581.0 IOPS]
Note that Ars Technica is using Sequential Read/Write values on 256K which is flawed. It should be larger to be accurate.
What's so terrible about the user experience? I put in an SD card, my phone has more storage space, and I don't think about it any more. Seems like a pretty perfect user experience.
You can move some of that to SD, but not everything. You'll end up with zero phone capacity and a pretty empty SD.
2. Google probably wants to push the idea that any storage beyond local apps should be to the cloud.
(which is comically unviable in Canada, where you're paying $25-50 per 1 GB of mobile data)
---
A year ago, I got a Nexus 5 after a long search for a replacement for my stalwart iPhone 3GS. The lack of SD card was the primary sticking point, and caused me days of choice-agony. In the end, price and "cleanliness" (stock android, lack of shitware, doesn't fight software customization very hard) won out.
SD storage has always been a mess on Android because it was originally added just as an easy way to port music and movies over. It was essentially supposed to be read-only memory. Then of course apps and users started using it and the ugly, messy history is notorious.
FWIW - I'm pro-removable memory myself, for cost & convenience of data transfer
The changes they made could be useful for more than just SD cards.
Everybody likes the idea of having an SD card, but in reality it's just confusing for users.
If you’re saving photos, videos or music, where does it go? Is it on your phone? Or on your card? ... We take a different approach. Your Nexus has a fixed amount of space and your apps just seamlessly use it for you without you ever having to worry about files or volumes or any of that techy nonsense left over from the paleolithic era of computing.
Remember the vast majority of users have vastly less technical understanding than HN readers.
[1] http://www.androidpolice.com/2012/10/30/matias-duarte-answer...
That also doesn't explain sticking with the same storage options from two years ago, even though prices have plummeted in the meantime.
It's clearly about what benefits Google.
In my experience 3000 mAh at 5.2" is the sweet spot, as below that you might rarely run out of juice under heavy usage. Above that no matter how heavy your usage is you'll get that whole day (and multiple days under light load).
You can buy an unlocked Sony Z3 for $400 right now (32 GB storage).
A simple google search yields links like this: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1091325-REG/sony_1289_... which is $560.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-XPERIA-Z3-D6616-32GB-Black-GSM-...
https://store.google.com/product/nexus_6p ($499)
https://store.google.com/product/nexus_5x ($379)
Shipping in 3-4 weeks for the 5x (noted at checkout).
I spend much of my time in wifi, as does my wife, and I suspect we can shave minimum $40 a month off our phone bills if we were both using Fi phones. It wouldn't take long to pay for itself.
Compliments of 5.0 Lollipop. It's sad they're going to leave the N4 with that abomination.
Too bad, I was looking forward to it.
Elections have consequences.
Presumably the great mass of your countrymen are happy getting additional social services in return for higher taxes.
[1] http://www.giga.de/unternehmen/gema/news/smartphone-abgabe-3... (German)
Also, does anyone have full specs? I don't see it anywhere.
They mention: "15W of power so you can charge your USB Type-C enabled phones and tablets quickly. Also works with large USB Type-C devices, like laptops.¹".
And the footnote: "¹Wattage is optimized for smaller devices, like phones and tablets. Larger devices, like laptops, will take longer to charge. Delivers maximum charge speed to Nexus 5X and Nexus 6P. Charge time depends on USB Type-C device. Larger devices, such as the Chromebook Pixel, will typically need more charge time with this adapter (Pixel estimated charge time is 5.6 hours at 15W with system off)."
USB Power Delivery chargers can deliver quite a lot more.
*except for a detection mechanism for higher-power cables
I can imagine USB-C only makes this more of a concern, since the USB Power Delivery spec allows up to 5 A @ 20 V.
I'd love to hear what the reason is for not offering a detachable cable ("I don't know why they wouldn't offer a detachable cable" being a completely fair answer).
Funny how (other than current limit) the original iPhone charger cube is still like the gold standard for chargers.
EDIT: Of course, the wattage is too low, so no dice anyways.
the us page has better information, for whatever reason.
Edit: The phone comes with both the charger you linked, and a type-c to type-c cable. No type-c to type-a cable however.
The 5x comes with that charger and a USB-C to C cable.
Second, it's not supposed to be "on the OS". It's supposed to be in TrustZone, the "secure world" separated from the OS. I hope that's what they did, but I worry they may have adopted a more "universal" solution that's a little higher level and less secure (even though TrustZone should be in virtually all ARM chips).
That sounds pretty impressive. How would this be done? You're not going to get the same file by scanning the same physical finger twice.
Fingerprints are recognized by comparing an image to a stored record of salient features, not to another image. But as far as I can see (and I have no further knowledge of the area), you kind of need the actual record, and the identifying information it contains, in order to see if an image matches it.
I think I'll stick with my Nexus 5.
I don't like that the battery is under 3000 mAh but it is only $380...though I guess others are saying that the Moto X Pure and the Xperia Z3 are around the same price point but better?
It's been a great phone, no doubt, and we've loved ours, but it feels like it's time to move on to the next thing.
At least they're bothering to release something about like an N5 this year. This is the first Nexus phone in two years.
They have the same resolution, same amount of memory, same amount of storage. I don't shoot video, and I probably won't use fingerprint reader - but I do use wireless charging every day.
I wonder if devices will start to be built better, with more replaceable components as the rate of spec improvements in mobile devices slows down.
I purchased the first gen on release day (2007) and carried it my pocket every day without a case until the 5 came out in 2012. I still have it, it still works.
I bought my iPhone 5 in 2013 and carry it my pocket every day without a case. It has some cosmetic damage.
Not fanboy-ing; I think it's legitimately interesting that most smartphones are still designed the way early cell phones were: plastic case around components, clipped or screwed on, flimsy from day one.
My wife is hard on her stuff; even with a case, her phones (one iPhone, two Android) need replacing every few years.
I don't use a case, and except for slightly lower battery life, my Android phones still look brand-new 4 years later.
Now that Nexus has the fingerprint sensor I'm never getting another iPhone.
I may well buy a new phone, but there is zero chance it will be a 5x.
Can you tell me where you found the battery you are using now?
I'm disappointed by the 5X. I was planning to replace the Nexus 5, but the 5x really does not appear to be a good value. If I can really get usable battery life out of the Nexus 5, I'll gladly keep using it, because there's very little else about it that seems in any way deficient.
I followed this guide (without their tools): https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Nexus+5+Battery+Replacement/260...
Turn off Google Fit, turn off always on OK Google hotword detection, clear the Google Play Services cache.
They also just updated the apk file size limit from 50MB to 100MB. On top of that, they made the video camera capture at a higher frame rate which will take up more space.
My iPod from nearly a decade ago has 80GB of storage. I don't want to have an extra device just for music anymore.
If I still had my Nexus 5, I doubt I'd even be considering a 5x or a 6p.
I don't see any official dock for the 5x so far, and most 3rd party ones won't support landscape.
1. an always on sensor.
2. more powerful processors
3. larger battery
4. project Fi support
5. quick charge
This means you probably should only buy Nexus devices when they're new to market, unless you're happy with a 18 month lifespan for your device.
p.s. People please stop claiming what you a fact.
p.s. Being right about not getting update (n7 v1) dos not make your argument true.
> Nexus devices will also receive updates for security issues considered Critical for at least the following periods:
> * Three years from when the device first became available on the Google Store
> * Or, 18 months after the device stopped being sold on the Google Store
https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/4457705?hl=en
p.s. For multiple times when somebody claimed that , their only references was AndroidPolice site , which I don't give shit about . But seems google quietly updated their policy. (which is unacceptable for me as power user)
Not trying to be snarky, but Google's policy is as good or better than most (perhaps all? I haven't heard of a better option, though they may exist) and at least they are completely transparent about it. They also have good policies around keeping the bootloaders unlockable so if they do EOL it and you want to update with unofficial builds, that's an option, just not one they officially support for all sorts of obvious reasons.
The problem with old devices was their lack of power for new increasing computing even for ordinary people (because this industry was infant). But ARM architecture based SoC and embedded CPU will pass (or passing/passed) a threshold . After this threshold you will be able to run ordinary app (I am not talking about high end 3d 4k gaming, I am talking about browsing internet,chatting , reading) for daily usage maybe for 5 year or even more. but your device will become obsolete , because of these thief's . ( I hate how big corporation ripping people off )
Let me give you an instance , you can have a pc desktop with 2gb ram from 2008 . If you are using your device for reading and ordinary job I bet you can install windows 10-32bit (which is state of art) on it and use it without any serious issue . This is the problem with whole ecosystem of Gadgets. Even if you buy a device with tegra x1 SoC(which is powerful as shit) , You should throw it away after 2 year , or you are sticking to old version of android (put aside how much security threat it has) .They can develop a solution for this problem with spending money. But why spending money when they can rip off people ?
Even the handsets that are sold on the idea of open source have spotty records when it comes to supported OTA updates beyond a year or so after release.
Given the lack of any ideal alternative, I'm personally sticking with Nexus devices and just going with unofficial builds of the OS when it makes sense to do so.
I can understand your (and most people) point of view about this problem , but this is not how I encounter with my problems. Personally I am sure non of nexus device (no matter how they will be good) will be my next device . (I am planning to switch device in next month)
The one thing I want to mention and personally I cannot tolerate Google shows himself as savior of us from Microsoft/Apple.But it is not , it is as bad as Microsoft of Apple (I would say maybe even worse than them). I just hate how they can handle media and most people thinks Google is different than any other dirty company out there.
Google literally ripping people off.Google can provide more update to solve the problem(or at least make problem less intense ). But instead they just went to opposed direction. They instead of solving problem. Literally made it harder to solve .
Nexus has so far been the one Anroid brand that people considering future updates were buying.
They should commit to providing updates to the phones forever.
Given the US cell carriers move towards a leasing model for devices, I think there are many people who don't want to pay for updates to 5 year old devices. I don't like that move, I'd prefer to see people paying upfront for cheap devices, but I take it as a evidence that more people want new devices than want updates forever.
$499 for a decent 6 inch phone seems like the real story here. Especially if it gets the typical Nexus price cut 6-9 months out. $449 or $399 for this could happen sooner than later, which would be an amazing deal. $499 is still really good, considering the previous N6 launched at $650. I'm surprised Samsung didn't balk at this, its pretty much a shot at their Note line which typically sells for $600+ unsubsidized. I think Google is trying hard to make phablets happen for non-techies any way they can, even to the point of pissing off their biggest OEM's. I also suspect there's some politicking here as Google is trying to groom Huawei to go after Samsung's massive marketshare. Samsung being the defacto Android product isn't good for Google or Android.
The screen kinda has to be made of glass, and even Dow Corning's finest will break if it hits a hard surface. I believe synthetic sapphire is available for watches and smartwatches but not for any actual phones?
Best solution is a case with rubberised corners.
Extending the bezel to the edge of the phone means there's no "crumple zone" to absorb energy of impacts - that shock goes to the screen.
Personally I think a mobile phone that looks lovely but has little chance of surviving metre drop is a design fail.
Modern phones are stupidly flimsy.
That was also the big era of replaceable phone cases. I think people who are worried about the frailty of the phone buy secondary-market protective cases these days.
I just checked -- the 2nd gen model Moto G is $149.99 on the Motorola website (free shipping). Add a few bucks of tax and it's still one third the price of these other offerings. MicroSD slot, water resistant, 5" display, pure Android experience. This is what the Nexus should have been. Except unfortunately it lacks NFC, ditto the 2015 model.
If it had NFC I'd consider getting one myself, but unfortunately that's a showstopper for me -- I write NFC apps for a living.
If Moto would put NFC in this bad boy, they'd have a killer phone!
Now, the Moto X for $400 does have NFC - plus a microSD slot. Hmmm.
Wireless charging seems to be something very few people use, but those that do love it so much they would not want to trade it. Being able to simply lay my phone on my bedside table at night and have it fully charged the next morning is such a nice thing to have.
But that's a fact about the N5, not the N5X/6P. I mean, what would you want from a new phone that would show up on a spec sheet?
Faster? Check, both of these are. The 808/810 aren't gigantic generational leaps over the 800, but they're significantly faster + 64-bit.
Better screen? They're both bigger; >1080p resolution seems irrelevant on a 5"-ish screen (though obviously welcome on larger screens where 1080p would be under 400 dpi).
More storage? Well, the 6P gives that to you, though the 5X doesn't.
USB Type-C and faster charging? Check.
Better camera? Check.
Bigger battery? Check (2300 mAh for N5, 2700 mAh for 5X).
More RAM? Check on the 6P, the same on the 5X.
Plus the fingerprint thing is probably a bigger deal than you think. Loss of wireless charging is definitely a minus, though.
So that's one downgrade, two specs that haven't changed on the 5X, and six that have; eight of those specs are better on the 6P. That's not a small upgrade, it's just that you have no reason to bother with an upgrade.
As a Nexus 5 user I'm pleased with most of the changes and non-changes. 2GB is fine for a smartphone, and an image sensor with more than double the light capture area per pixel is brilliant, and if it delivers the better photographs will be worth it right there. Losing OIS...I don't think that's a downgrade as OIS was always suspect to begin with (not least because OIS only helps for lateral movements. It does nothing for rotational movements, and of course make subjects stand still. It yielded a tonne of unusable photos).
The only thing I'm really displeased about is the removal of wireless charging. That was a really nice feature.
Between the Snapdragon 810 and 808, the only real items of concern is that the 808 does not have h265 hardware encoding (the 810 does), and its image processing DSP is 12-bit per pixel rather than the 14-bpp of the 810.
non-ARM-manufacturer citation needed :). My experience as a compiler guy (that makes the toolchains for these kinds of phones) has been that big little brings improvements to what these guys can shove on a chip and advertise, but so far not real improvements to battery life or real numbers.
There reason why is pretty simple.
In an ideal world, you don't want anything running at all. You don't want A53's "handling the majority of the workload". What you want is to wake up, do whatever work is needed as fast as possible, and go back to sleep. Period. Sleeping chips are lower power, by far, than idling chips.
If it's faster to do that work with an A57, it'll generally give you better battery life to do that. Again, this is right now, based on perf per watt/blah blah blah. Maybe someday, in the future, a53's will be so low power vs a57 that doing something else makes sense. But it's not true now, AFAIK.
Instead, they make big-little because they can't really increase the speed of the higher end cores more without increasing power usage too much.
Yes. You do. If I'm casually browsing non-intensive web pages, e-reading, or watching a Netflix movie, or even encoding a video, the background is doing IO rate limited system updates and basic data logging, etc, the vast majority of the time the CPU demands are very low, but frequent enough that putting a CPU to sleep is completely out of the question.
An A53 has a much lower ceiling, but a much better middle tier power usage level, than the A57. Yes, if you want to run a benchmark the A53 is not a good bet (and is generally worse in a workload power usage), but it is a very good bet for most real world usage.
Encoding a video should not be CPU, so let's get that out of there. Most of the rest is more GPU dependent than CPU dependent. The amount of CPU time you should be spending on these tasks is really low.
For example, web browsing and reading, the CPU should be asleep most of the time.
Now, don't get me wrong, there are plenty of very silly little tasks for A53's to do, but what you listed are not those tasks.
It's more things like "syncing" or something that is a poll loop and event bound, not something that is in any way CPU bound. Period. CPU bound stuff is not something for the A53's in this to tackle. It makes battery life worse. That is what the actual, in-the-field data says.
" a much better middle tier power usage level, than the A57"
Truthfully, for most A53 cores, this is true only in the dreams of the chip designers.
"but it is a very good bet for most real world usage."
Then what, pray tell, do you expect the A57's to be doing in this world?
And why, in practice, has big.little and other things not shown any better battery life at all if it's really a better way of doing things.
I have no doubt it may be a better way of doing things in the future, but it ain't right now ;)
Which is exactly the point. They are not CPU intensive, but the CPU is constantly doing a multitude of little things, whether simply moving memory around from the GPU to storage, sending the render buffers for the 60fps display, etc. Another comment mentioned, rightly, that cores are put to sleep in they don't have anything to do in a quantum. A quantum is an enormously huge period of time, and is a macro power management technique, and is the last bastion behind idle frequency scaling, and big.little.
Truthfully, for most A53 cores, this is true only in the dreams of the chip designers.
You have zero expertise to be saying this. I mean, here's how Samsung actually does it on a big/little setup-
http://www.androidauthority.com/galaxy-s6-octa-core-processo...
Here's Qualcomm-
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8933/snapdragon-810-performanc...
Here's ARM-
https://www.arm.com/products/processors/technologies/biglitt...
They favor the little cores, unless the process actually saturates the core at which point it is elevated to a big core, because the power profile for low demand tasks is far better for the small cores.
I'm going to favor the industry's interpretation of this a bit more than your anecdotal, occasional compiler-writer knowledge.
what do you expect the A57's to be doing in this world?
...
This is 100% false. I do bringup on these platforms. I know a lot about them.
"I'm going to favor the industry's interpretation of this a bit more than your anecdotal, occasional compiler-writer knowledge. "
Dude, i literally do the toolchain bringup on these platforms you claim i have no knowledge of. This is not "anecdotal occasional compiler-writer knowledge". This is "I get paid to make the stuff you keep talking about work fast and get good battery life out of it".
If what you say was true, then one would expect that when they were brought up, they would have worse performance and better battery life. Instead, the exact opposite is true in most cases. They have slightly better performance, and much worse battery life. Try it sometime.
Battery life is gotten back mainly through .. wait for it ... compiler optimization ... to speed up the software so things can sleep faster.
Not to "move things onto the little cores to save power", as you seem to think.
Since you want to attack my experience, remind me again, what background do you have in this again? (FWIW - I would stay away from this argument line as it is unlikely to serve you well)
As swetland (who was android's main kernel guy for a long time) pointed out to you, you literally have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to CPU sleeping and what the main power policies are.
BTW, much earlier i asked if you had anything other than self-serving industry press releases to back up your claims. I'm guessing the answer is "no", given what you've written.
Anyway, i'm going to stop responding now, because i'm just some anecdotal compiler writer, and clearly i can't compete with your vast knowledge store and experience on this one.
I linked multiple real world demonstrations (both the technical data, and actual observations of these cores in practice) of how big little is used for power consumption, including specific details of the core power profiles. You still allude to your great, clearly laughable, expertise and actually continue arguing this. Remarkable.
You are a Hacker News "Expert" and a bore. You are far, far out of your depth, and you should stop responding to topics where your knowledge is hilariously wrong.
you literally have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to CPU sleeping
He said that cores slept as much as "every 50ms". 50ms is an enormous period of time, and is a colossally granular mechanism of power reduction. They didn't discount what I said at all (in fact, talking about the millisecond scale when discussing a costly CPU activity is pretty bizarre to begin with), though it is unsurprising that you try to hang on that.
Not to mention that their comment is simply dated and wrong now regardless.
anything other than self-serving industry press releases to back up your claims.
Comical. And yet you'll wave your hand at "battery life" based upon utterly nothing. Hey guys - ARM, Samsung, Qualcomm --- disregard them, and disregard actual observations of how these SoCs operate in the field on varying demand workloads -- because this guy knows how compilers are written and he does little winky faces.
Save the world from your ignorance. The mere fact that you continually reference your great compiler writer knowledge in relation to core design is, honestly, embarrassing.
1) I can easily envision a scenario where he really is an expert but is not necessarily allowed to come out and say "I am a senior embedded systems engineer working for XYZ Mobile Devices" and has years of experience and is sitting there laughing at you. I should know because there are a couple of completely unrelated subjects that get widely discussed on the internet where I am an expert but can't just flat out state all my qualifications. I try to contribute sometimes in discussions about these subjects but often people say I have no idea what I'm talking about.
2) You seem to believe that he cannot possibly be an expert. He disagrees, and offers no absolute proof (and really, does he have to do that? Why can't we just be nice to each other).
3) I am embarrassed for you because you have seemed to be very mean and dismissive. Even if you're right, using phrases like "You are a Hacker News "Expert" and a bore" and "Save the world from your ignorance" just makes me feel that you're being rude.
Bringing up writing a compiler in relation to SoC design is, in itself, absurd. It undermines the expert claim to begin with. Waving one's hands at "industry mumbo jumbo" (even ARM reference architectures) and alluding to your own claims of knowledge is...incredibly ignorant. It is so far below what HN aspires to be it boggles.
It is what they said that discounts the mere possibility that they have even a basic layman knowledge of the topic, much less are an expert.
"I am embarrassed for you because you have seemed to be very mean and dismissive."
Did you read what DannyBee was saying at all? In response to empirically proven, well backed statements they disagreed, did the knowing wink and patronizing pat on the back, and pretended to have more knowledge based upon a growing volume of claims (first "write compilers", then "toolchain", then "toolchain bringup", none of which have anything to do with SoC-targeted schedulers). I didn't fire the first shot in being "mean and dismissive", and considering how profoundly ignorant this whole discussion is I was being as kind as possible.
It's actually interesting: You have no idea what my qualifications are, or my interest in this topic. Nor do I expect anyone, which is exactly why I cite actual data and information, not just my wink-wink/trust me/"don't believe those SoC fatcats" knowledge.
The fact that your response to someone like swetland is "Not to mention that their comment is simply dated and wrong now regardless." is hilariously arrogant and amazing.
I'll just continue to find it funny that you want to cite chip manufacturers (who uh, might be slightly self-serving in selling their architectures, and produce zero actual phones except for samsung. Except, of course, that the division of samsung that produces the phones is separate and does not really talk to the chip making division. I'm sure you know this), when i am talking about the actual qualification and testing of real world phones, and not "whatever random crap they made up to put in their marketing material".
You can try to gussy that up as "actual field observations of SOC vendors" or whatever, but that just shows further ignorance in how SOC vendors actually operate.
Again, I urge you: Buy an evaluation board or two. They are cheap. Put an OS on them. Try out what you claim is true. Measure the power draw. I think you will be surprised.
Have a good one!
As someone who works on scheduling code in one of the aforementioned architectures, inversionOf is correct on all counts, at least in regards to these architectures and power to performance. They may be rude and obnoxious, but your claims through this thread have been entirely off the mark and do not serve the community well.
Workloads are monitored for intensity. If they fall low enough they are migrated to the little core because it offers a much better total performance per unit of work. The frequency of the cores (whether big or little) are adjusted to fit the workload. If the workload is really low, we put the core to sleep. Sleep is, exactly as stated, the last possible, coarsest measure.
Sleep is not a replacement for frequency scaling. Frequency scaling achieves a half measure of what core migration achieves.
You don't have to believe my credentials, but you claim that "3 experts" have supported your stance. That simply isn't true. No one who works on scheduling algorithms for these platforms would support your claims.
That said there's plenty of lightweight threads and processes that are mostly IO or event bound, do very little compute, and will run in roughly the same time on a small core as a large core, but the small cores have a lower static power footprint (base cost to have them powered up at all), so big.little works out well there.
A sleeping core is obviously the most efficient core, however you have said nothing to discount what I said. Putting a core to sleep is a very costly activity, which is exactly why it happens at the millisecond scale.
Before that happens, the core will likely have been frequency scaled to more appropriately fit the window's loading. I mean, we know this is the case right now, and that "run fast and go to sleep" is not the primary policy. It's "run as fast as appropriate for the workload to fill a quantum, and sleep when there is no workload". There are many if not most workloads that are externally bound, or event triggered enough that sleep is completely out of the question and running faster does nothing.
Your words have been used (out of context and inappropriately) to bolster DannyBee when they represent, literally, all that is wrong with Hacker News.
Modern CPUs have many different levels of "going to sleep" and many of them can be switched in and out of very quickly.
https://store.google.com/product/nexus_wireless_charger
Are there better ones out there that don't have as much of an issue with placement? My blind assumption was the problem lies with the phone's limited charging area, not the charger (which I presumed was nearly the whole surface).
1. The wireless charging, while seemingly a small thing, was to me a huge improvement in my experience of using the phone. The fact that I can sit down at my desk, plop the phone down, and it'll just work, and when I get up to leave I can just pull it off my desk. Removing the USB cable interaction made the phone a much more invisible and organic part of my day. Might not be important to others, but I would very much miss it.
2. Lack of removable storage. Small deal but it was a nice quality of life feature.
3. Battery that's hard to replace. My phone upgrade cycle is very long, usually longer than the lifetime of the battery. I'm feeling it in my Nexus 5 right now.
But the main thing that might prompt me to upgrade is just software performance creep. The latest software updates have really turned my phone into a slideshow, and that's getting really frustrating.
But the spec improvements are certainly both appreciated and necessary.
And before some of you say that MagSafe has patents on this, remember that the magnetic catch for a power cord was used on deep fat fryers YEARS before MagSafe [2].
[1] http://www.dxsoul.com/product/wsken-micro-usb-metal-magnetic...
[2] http://www.cpsc.gov/PageFiles/102855/Fryers-DeepFat.pdf
Nexus phones never had an SD card unless you count the Nexus One. The Nexus One really needed it though, since it only had 512MB of storage. Every phone since has had enough it isn't a huge deal.
As with all puchasing decisions, there are tradeoffs, but I definitely don't think it's wishful thinking to want some hardware features common in competitors' phones. Surprising? No, I'm not surprised, but that doesn't stop me from wanting certain features that I liked in other phones I had.
Am I the only person on the planet who doesn't want a fingerprint reader on my phone? I don't want to secure anything of importance with my fingerprint - fingerprints are usernames, not passwords. This just feels like the equivalent of writing your password on a Post-It and sticking it to your monitor.
Aren't these the things where you'd want security?
Buying things on the App Store requires you to type in a password for the first purchase every so often. Then you use your finger print.
My friends often have to share their passcodes with me; at which point it's like, what's this adding?
I guess that I think once you share it a few times and it's used regularly, then it becomes fairly public knowledge. Maybe this is a mis step from password security.
My bank emailed me the other day with an announcement that I could access my account through their app via my fingerprint. WTF? My text messages are one thing by now my money is protected by just my fingerprint? I took my bank to task because they allowed my username to be twice as long as the allowed characters in my password. Someone at the bank said, "Hey, all these new-fangled phones have fingerprint readers, why don't we tap into that and sell it as a feature?" When everyone is doing it, no one is going to stop and ask if they should, it's just a race to incorporate the newest features. Normal people aren't asking if this is secure, they are buying into the marketing copy pushed on them, so they start thinking that it has to be secure, because why would my bank not have my interests in mind?
Otherwise the data is still there in the plain, accessible by anyone who can read the flash.
Android 5 has full disk encryption but was disabled by default on the Nexus 5 (and most other phones) due to performance issues.
I didn't notice any mention of those, specially because they failed miserably last year parading full disk encryption on Nexus 6 and got bitten when reviews showed the performance degradation and lack of hardware encryption.
If it's not, then Google are starting to take the piss..
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/sep/23/us-governm...
In my mind, the only reasons tech giants continue to force centralization on their users are PRISM and data mining. Today’s devices have sizable internal drives, so all personal data could realistically be stored and processed locally; and secure, distributed systems have been proven to work for data transfer (BitTorrent), monetary transactions (Bitcoin), message boards (Aether—sort of), and more. Hopefully solutions like Copperhead OS and Blackphone that secure our mobile devices and communication channels, respectively, make it to the mainstream.
I think this misses the point. Accessing a device using a "cloned finger" (not tremendously difficult) can be done without the target ever knowing it has happened.
The wrench technique, less so.
Whyever not? They might have a copy of it lying around. http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/sep/23/us-governm...
> Yes, but is it worth spending the required resources?
When it becomes easy - and it will become easy, there's nothing basically hard about printing out some ridged plastic - it will become commonplace. And unlike stolen passwords, an attacker can be fairly sure that you haven't changed your fingers.
There's a legal difference in some places between having your phone secured by a fingerprint and a password. If your phone is secured by a password, then in some places you cannot be obliged to provide the password, but a fingerprint you can.
There was a bunch of reporting in the past few days that a Federal District Court in Pennsylvania found that Fifth Amendment rights apply to smartphone passcodes.
Random link: http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/why-the-government-cant-...
That same protection doesn't seem to apply to fingerprints. Random link: http://time.com/3558936/fingerprint-password-fifth-amendment...
Again, I'm not a lawyer, but that seems to be how the law falls out on that issue.
Whether that's an issue for you, personally - no idea. It might be a factor for some.
One of the neat things about encryption, historically, is that the government couldn't force decryption even if it were willing to break the law in doing so. That's why there were export controls and demands for backdoors in the '90s, and that's why there are demands for backdoors today. Fingerprint locks may mathematically involve encryption, but they don't have this property.
1. Attacker sees random data.
2. Attacker knows you might be smart enough to use a plausible deniability file system.
3. Attacker starts beating you with the wrench.
At this point, there are several possibilities that could happen:
1. You give up the secret and give the attacker what he wants. The beating continues after this point, because the attacker really has no idea if you've given up the right secret.
2. You give up a fake secret and give the attacker what he thinks he wants. The beatings continue. See possibility #1.
3. You don't give up the secret and he continues beating you with the wrench anyway to try to get you to reveal the secret.
4. You're not using a plausible deniability encryption at all, and it truly is random data, and he continues to beat you with the wrench to make sure.
As you can see, the wrench doesn't give two shits about your plausible deniability.
NOW GIMME MY SHITS
> So that's one downgrade
Two, and one critical. The Nexus 5 was absolutely the biggest phone I would consider, and even that was really too big. Making one phone a dinner plate and one phone a centimeter-larger dinner plate is atrocious.
Apparently only Sony wants my money (and honestly the Z Compact series is still too big).
It's higher resolution, but the 6P is physically slightly smaller; 5.7" vs 6"; (77.8 x 159.3 x 7.3mm vs 82.9 x 159.2 x 10.0mm).
Kind of a letdown the 5X is so large. It is annoying that all phones coming out are trying to outdo each other on the same form factor that's both too large to fit in a pocket and too thin to have a useful battery.
Given a price to stick to, it is very difficult to improve the specs substantially to wow the existing customers. Look at Oneplus one- the flagship killer and its successor- two not considered to be killer at all. I don't think existing customers would want to upgrade to the newer version.
Speaking as someone who does not own a Nexus 5, I would say I am very impressed by the specs and am waiting to purchase it. There aren't many phones better than this (keeping in mind the price).
A lot of Nexus 5 owners have pointed that the newer one does not have wireless charging and OIS. I feel that improving the overall experience matters more. Even though both are nice-to-have features it still does not help the crappy battery and low-quality camera that much. The 5x solves the existential funks first by adding those improvements. And due to the price limitation the nice-to-have features had to be dropped.
* CPU: Processor evolution is stagnating, and processors are so powerful that they can handle most typical workloads with ease. Efficiency is now the order of the day, not raw power.
* Screen: Densities are so high it that not only does it become difficult to manufacture higher density panels, but it actually hurts the device by draining more energy and killing performance and battery life to display pixels you aren't going to see.
* RAM: 2Gb, the standard in mid-range phones and up, is sufficient for moderate use. 3Gb is comfy and 4Gb is gigantic. Again no substantial improvements in the horizon.
* Storage: The more storage the better, but phones seem to have stabilized in the 16/32/64/128Gb, and anyway with cloud storage this is less and less of a concern.
* Battery: A major pain in modern devices, with no imminent breakthrough in sight.
* Camera: Incremental upgrades are looking promising, but there's only so much you can do with optics in a small form factor.
In short, no major improvements or evolutions in the smartphone field are in the horizon, but they aren't really necessary for the short-term anyway.
All the above are requirements, yes (CPU, Screen, RAM, Storage, Battery, Camera). I'd add one more requirement: manufacturers should be required to supply as a part of an extended warranty the latest release of Android. No more orphaning year-old phones.
Once that's squared away, then I imagine manufacturers could compete on features -- things that customers want. Here are some examples:
* Battery life. User-serviceable battery.
* Removable storage
* Wireless charging
* Multiple SIM slots (popular in Japan)
* FM Radio (popular in Japan)
As you can imagine, a phone with all the above would be pretty large, but it turns out customers like a large phone. Sadly, no such phone exists today.
Try the 3D touch on the iPhone.
Adding what is the equivalent of contextual menus to the UI is a major improvement to the overall experience and I know I will be upgrading to the 6s purely because of this.
3D Touch is about how much force you use, not how long you touch for.
be glad your two year phone still feels like current gen. keep your money. don't throw away a product that is full of heavy metals (yeah you won't throw away, but sell. but the person buying will throw his old one away. so it's the same)
but no, let's instead complain i can't consume blindly and constantly. sigh.
Wireless charging is something I use with my 5, but it is slow compared to USB. Compared to type C, is will be incredibly slow. There just won't be a need to charge the phone overnight like the wireless charger did.
The battery life is better.
The resolution is the same. This is a plus for me. I don't need higher resolution on such a small screen. It is already incredible for even the tiniest of fonts. Higher resolution = higher power use, higher CPU/GPU use, and more memory use. It would be fine, but I don't need it.
I will use the fingerprint reader. I'm excited to see Android Pay take off. I hate getting my credit card stolen, and I don't like typing in a code every time I use GoogleWallet or whatever I used to use.
The camera is a big deal. I'm excited for slow mo capable capture. I have a small child, and he is a ham.
I also am looking forward to the speed increase. More cores = more potential concurrency = smoother interfaces.
The primary reason I bought it was because it is financed (0%) over 24 months when you sign up for Project Fi. I get the $50 play credit, get to switch to Project Fi, and I get the phone in 2-3 weeks.
The total cell phone bill w/ 1GB of data and the phone included is less than the $50 TMo wanted for their cheapest plan directly.
Note: I would have gotten the 6P, except it was 4-5 weeks instead of 2-3, and I need it here soon as my cell phone plan is expiring.
If you're talking about thumb-stretching to reach the top of the screen, though, that might get a bit more difficult.
However, I have been impressed by the 6P - I might consider the $550 64GB instead of switching to the iPhone 6S.
Samsung has done a great job with the S6, the others like G4 & Moto aren't far behind.
https://m.imgur.com/wzMqO8p
Taking multiple exposures with a camera with an electronic shutter (pretty much all smartphones) is still just a 'trick'.
BTW, the Galaxy Note 3's stock camera app does HDR, I'm sure most phones already did a year ago...
For instance, compare these two pictures taken at the same spot with a nexus 5 and Canon EOS Rebel T2i. https://goo.gl/photos/8ZrXoEC283oJ3NmC9 The nexus 5 one is just way better. The conventional camera struggles to keep even the foreground and midground properly exposed. The nexus 5 gets everything from the foreground to the sky, exactly as I saw it.
Sites like connect.dpreview.com on the other hand are all about the actual photography and cover things like handling, UI and real life performance and results
Can someone confirm the rear shooters on the 5X and 6P are the same hardware? The specs are identical.
To the moon! Considering it's a six inch phone, how close to my face am I going to be holding this thing?
I wonder what's coming next. 240Hz refresh rates?
Don't give Samsung new ideas for spec boasting.
[0] http://www.sonymobile.com/global-en/products/phones/xperia-z...